Should wickets taken by Indian spinners at home be valued highly?


Sohail Speaks Yasir's Blog Fazeer's Focus

User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 80 of 145
  1. #1
    Debut
    Sep 2017
    Runs
    525
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Should wickets taken by Indian spinners at home be valued highly?

    The duo of Shastri-Kohli have once again unleashed another rank turner in the name of pink ball test.

    Whats the point of a pitch where a spinner just bowls wicket to wicket and gets tons of wickets ......sorry this is just not good cricket. Its a spin bowling shootout.

    If I recall well, they produced about 7-8 rank turners already in last 5-6 years. The Nagpur 2015 and Pune 2018 pitch have been already declared poor and this should also be another.

    Indian fans talk about SENA pitches where fast bowlers have to run hard and bowl on channel consistently to get wickets. That requires skills and hard work, it is not like spinners who can just bowl 10-15 overs consecutively on a row and get 5-6 wickets.

    Axar Patel is averaging under 10 in this series and I am sure on these type of wickets, even Leach, Bess would have a spin career with 200 wickets at average under 25 like Jadeja has. These easy wickets shouldn't be valued much. Ashwin is world class but same as other Indian spinners of past and Jadeja is just a good economical spin bowler. Give Leach 50 test matches in India and he will average 23-24 too. There is no balance between bat and bowl.
    Last edited by Ted123; 25th February 2021 at 17:02.

  2. #2
    Debut
    Sep 2017
    Runs
    525
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yasir Shah would have averaged 22-23 on these pitches too.

  3. #3
    Debut
    Jan 2006
    Runs
    34,058
    Mentioned
    388 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    If Joe Root can get 5-8, it should answer your question.

  4. #4
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    New Delhi
    Runs
    7,110
    Mentioned
    125 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    More often than not, Indian pitches are good sporting wickets, in the last decade. However, from time to time we do get a series with crooked pitches, but that doesn't mean it is always the case. Most of the times the pitches are not as bad and one has to bowl well to get a wicket.

    Sometimes, you do get favorable conditions for fast bowlers in SENA conditions as well.

    This whole thread is as bad as the pitch in current match.

  5. #5
    Debut
    Aug 2009
    Runs
    2,532
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The fact that a part timer like Root can get figures like 5-8 answers this question. I was laughing when people were saying Axar Patel is a great bowler based on these pitches. These pitches require no real skill as a spin bowler...all you have to do is bowl.

  6. Google Ad Manager-
  7. #6
    Debut
    Jan 2006
    Runs
    34,058
    Mentioned
    388 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Extreme Pace View Post
    The fact that a part timer like Root can get figures like 5-8 answers this question. I was laughing when people were saying Axar Patel is a great bowler based on these pitches. These pitches require no real skill as a spin bowler...all you have to do is bowl.
    With a tweak in the fingers. Even Iftikhar would be unplayable here

  8. #7
    Debut
    Jan 2021
    Runs
    911
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    All wickets should be valued but yes, the pitches need to be questioned. It turns most Indian test series into repetitive encounters.

  9. #8
    Debut
    Sep 2016
    Runs
    3,706
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by big_gamer007 View Post
    More often than not, Indian pitches are good sporting wickets, in the last decade. However, from time to time we do get a series with crooked pitches, but that doesn't mean it is always the case. Most of the times the pitches are not as bad and one has to bowl well to get a wicket.

    Sometimes, you do get favorable conditions for fast bowlers in SENA conditions as well.

    This whole thread is as bad as the pitch in current match.
    This sued to be the case prior to Dhoni and Kholi era where spinners used to get a treat every now and then in India but mostly they had to wait atleast until 4th day for pitch to start exploding.

    But since Dhoni and now Kholi they have been openly calling for more and more dust bowls and obviously they are getting it. They have promoted their spin bowlers well and the records show.

  10. #9
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    New Delhi
    Runs
    7,110
    Mentioned
    125 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    This sued to be the case prior to Dhoni and Kholi era where spinners used to get a treat every now and then in India but mostly they had to wait atleast until 4th day for pitch to start exploding.

    But since Dhoni and now Kholi they have been openly calling for more and more dust bowls and obviously they are getting it. They have promoted their spin bowlers well and the records show.
    I think the batting against spin has also been very poor this decade. Even the Indian batsmen are not good against spin compared to batsmen of past. That's why the scorecards are low and it gives everyone a perception that wickets are crooked.

    I am pretty sure Sehwag, Azhar, Younis Khan, SRT, Lara etc etc would have had good record in India. Even Steve Smith has played quite well in India.

    But these sort of dustbowls which turn square from day 1, gives a bad impression and then people make a perception that pitches are bad every time, even when sometimes it is just poor batting.

  11. #10
    Debut
    Sep 2015
    Runs
    20,031
    Mentioned
    389 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Ashwin generally struggles on rank turners.

    Jadeja and Axar have boosted their stats for sure.

  12. #11
    Debut
    Sep 2016
    Runs
    3,706
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by big_gamer007 View Post
    I think the batting against spin has also been very poor this decade. Even the Indian batsmen are not good against spin compared to batsmen of past. That's why the scorecards are low and it gives everyone a perception that wickets are crooked.

    I am pretty sure Sehwag, Azhar, Younis Khan, SRT, Lara etc etc would have had good record in India. Even Steve Smith has played quite well in India.

    But these sort of dustbowls which turn square from day 1, gives a bad impression and then people make a perception that pitches are bad every time, even when sometimes it is just poor batting.
    The players you have mentioned are all time greats against spin bowling so they would still have been alright. But no one can tell me Ashwin is a better bowler than Kumble.

  13. #12
    Debut
    Sep 2016
    Runs
    3,706
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Ashwin generally struggles on rank turners.

    Jadeja and Axar have boosted their stats for sure.
    On turners they have made sure they take their wickets before Ashwin will.

  14. #13
    Debut
    Jun 2017
    Runs
    1,730
    Mentioned
    115 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Haris Sohail would have become the greatest allrounder in Asia for the past two decades had he regularly played on these pitches.

  15. #14
    Debut
    Aug 2010
    Runs
    839
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This is a mockery of test cricket. How desperate can Indians get for a win with these types of pitches.

  16. #15
    Debut
    Mar 2014
    Runs
    15,086
    Mentioned
    504 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)
    No, they should not be valued highly. ICC should update the laws to make indian spinners take a batsman's wicket twice for him to be given out once.

  17. #16
    Debut
    Sep 2017
    Runs
    525
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The problem is not who wins here. It is the value of wickets that Indian spinners should get at home. They can beat opposition on good batting wickets also. But look at what Axar is doing and Ashwin or Jadeja has done in past.

    As for the past pitches, there were a couple of rank turners in the Australian series and a couple already here. They were quite a few against South Africans too.

    How do you value wickets of Ashwin, Jadeja and Axar when Elgar, Harmer, Leach, Bess and Root get 5-fers for fun? There is no balance between bat and bowl.

  18. #17
    Debut
    Feb 2012
    Venue
    Mississauga, Canada
    Runs
    30,763
    Mentioned
    1044 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by big_gamer007 View Post
    More often than not, Indian pitches are good sporting wickets, in the last decade. However, from time to time we do get a series with crooked pitches, but that doesn't mean it is always the case. Most of the times the pitches are not as bad and one has to bowl well to get a wicket.

    Sometimes, you do get favorable conditions for fast bowlers in SENA conditions as well.

    This whole thread is as bad as the pitch in current match.
    I remember several rank turners over the last few years. Mohali, Nagpur and Kolkata during the series against against South Africa in 2015; that pitch during the series against Australia where O'Keefe wrecked India; and now you have two in the current series already.

    I'm sure I'm forgetting some since I haven't followed cricket in some time. It seems that whenever India has a big series on the line, a rank turner is produced. They don't seem to do that against the subcontinent teams or weaker teams like New Zealand.

    I don't mind it much, they are entitled to do whatever they want with their home pitches. However, it does lead to some incredibly boring cricket and one-dimensional cricket after a while and to see people calling Ashwin and Jadeja ATGs based on getting a bunch of free wickets is just hilarious.

    You also cannot rate the Indian batsmen too highly because its not like they are batting on rank turners against the likes of Yasir Shah. They're batting on rank turners against the likes of Joe Root and O'Keefe.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  19. #18
    Debut
    Feb 2018
    Venue
    USA
    Runs
    4,949
    Mentioned
    53 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    1/2 value to Indian spinners. 2x to Indian pacers and batsmen.

    On a serious note, this pitch is pathetic.

  20. #19
    Debut
    Feb 2012
    Venue
    Mississauga, Canada
    Runs
    30,763
    Mentioned
    1044 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum363 View Post
    Haris Sohail would have become the greatest allrounder in Asia for the past two decades had he regularly played on these pitches.
    Agreed. He would be in the running for greatest Asian spin-bowling all-rounder, along with Hafeez and Shadab Khan. All three would be deadly on these pitches. However, there is no chance of India rolling this rank turner out if Pakistan were touring India.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  21. #20
    Debut
    Nov 2011
    Venue
    Surrey
    Runs
    480
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ashwin struggles because he is bowling to right handers and thats why jadeja or axar are more successful because apart from stokes every top order batsman is right hander in english line up... The best chance england had was for Root to face up all the balls from ashwin and stokes to take up all the balls from axar and would have frustrated indians.


  22. #21
    Debut
    Nov 2015
    Runs
    3,938
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    Been calling out these pitches since day 1 of 2nd test. Anyway whats your point? too embarrassed to admit your captain called for such pitches to win?
    Why should a spinning pitch guarantee an Indian win? This team is a black n white version of the way the Fab 5 treated spinners. If England are useless with their selections and can't play spin, or rather, play spin in a bookish way, don't blame us for laughing at them.

    Yeah I know we got out to Root, but that stuff happens sometimes. Even Clarke rolled over our ATG best players of spin.

    Anyway the point is about the quality of this thread which is comparable to England's spin-playing abilities

  23. #22
    Debut
    Jun 2017
    Runs
    1,730
    Mentioned
    115 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Agreed. He would be in the running for greatest Asian spin-bowling all-rounder, along with Hafeez and Shadab Khan. All three would be deadly on these pitches. However, there is no chance of India rolling this rank turner out if Pakistan were touring India.
    Nawaz would have a better record than Herath and Zulfiqar Babar would still be playing.

  24. #23
    Debut
    Jun 2017
    Venue
    Toronto, Canada
    Runs
    3,321
    Mentioned
    215 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This pitch is really disgrace for test match let alone D/N test. But OP shouldn’t generalize every test match pitch under Kohli-Shastri as rank turners, as its factually not true. Maybe a defeat in first test match and qualification of WTC have caused chaos in Indian management which might have pushed for spin pitches.

    Regardless of the reason, ongoing test match and series have been a huge let down. After witnessing best ever series in Australia, I had huge expectations from current series, but I feel, us fans have been let down big time.

  25. #24
    Debut
    Sep 2019
    Runs
    2,456
    Mentioned
    71 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    While this pitch was poor, you can’t nitpick on the performances of the players themselves. At least pitch is not in their control, what about “accusations” of players making a career by “altering” the ball or local and loyal umpires refusing to give the local hero out while he fills up his numbers?

    You can only beat what is in front of you. The opposition uses the same pitch too.

  26. #25
    Debut
    Sep 2019
    Runs
    2,456
    Mentioned
    71 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Agreed. He would be in the running for greatest Asian spin-bowling all-rounder, along with Hafeez and Shadab Khan. All three would be deadly on these pitches. However, there is no chance of India rolling this rank turner out if Pakistan were touring India.
    By the same logic how many more wickets would Kapil Dev had if he was bowling with a half shredded ball that was doing tricks?

  27. #26
    Debut
    Jul 2017
    Runs
    1,368
    Mentioned
    90 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Man imagine if Kumble got these wickets for the majority of his career. He would have breezed past a 1000 wickets.

  28. #27
    Debut
    Sep 2016
    Runs
    3,706
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by pillionrider View Post
    Why should a spinning pitch guarantee an Indian win? This team is a black n white version of the way the Fab 5 treated spinners. If England are useless with their selections and can't play spin, or rather, play spin in a bookish way, don't blame us for laughing at them.

    Yeah I know we got out to Root, but that stuff happens sometimes. Even Clarke rolled over our ATG best players of spin.

    Anyway the point is about the quality of this thread which is comparable to England's spin-playing abilities
    Again dont beat round the bush these dust bowls which are closer to dry mud than a cricket pitch has been designed to heighten Indian advantage. Indian fans were blinded into thinking that Kohli is promoting fast bowling culture. I have no problems in general if the home side wants to make a spinning track to gain home advantage if they are worried about the opposition or whatever but dont make a fool out of us and tell us otherwise.

    Having said above this current test matches wicket is in no way acceptable. Its not acceptable for even two village team playing.

  29. #28
    Debut
    Nov 2015
    Runs
    3,938
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    Again dont beat round the bush these dust bowls which are closer to dry mud than a cricket pitch has been designed to heighten Indian advantage. Indian fans were blinded into thinking that Kohli is promoting fast bowling culture. I have no problems in general if the home side wants to make a spinning track to gain home advantage if they are worried about the opposition or whatever but dont make a fool out of us and tell us otherwise.

    Having said above this current test matches wicket is in no way acceptable. Its not acceptable for even two village team playing.
    Well he certainly has had a role in us having a vastly superior pace bowling attack to yours

    Why are you so hot under the collar though Match hasn't gone your way after the glimmer of hope?

  30. #29
    Debut
    Jul 2017
    Runs
    1,368
    Mentioned
    90 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by pillionrider View Post
    Why should a spinning pitch guarantee an Indian win? This team is a black n white version of the way the Fab 5 treated spinners. If England are useless with their selections and can't play spin, or rather, play spin in a bookish way, don't blame us for laughing at them.

    Yeah I know we got out to Root, but that stuff happens sometimes. Even Clarke rolled over our ATG best players of spin.

    Anyway the point is about the quality of this thread which is comparable to England's spin-playing abilities
    I would argue that India are worse players of spin than England. They just have far better spinners which makes their batting look somewhat competent in comparison. This Indian team won't last 25 overs if it were Murali or Warne bowling on these pitches.

  31. #30
    Debut
    Sep 2016
    Runs
    3,706
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by pillionrider View Post
    Well he certainly has had a role in us having a vastly superior pace bowling attack to yours

    Why are you so hot under the collar though Match hasn't gone your way after the glimmer of hope?
    What role? Exactly please explain? The only captain ever who did not take the easy route and promoted the fast bowling culture was Imran khan who gave us a lineage of fast bowlers in the 90s and resulted in Pakistan going away from turning tracks at home.

    It still came at a cost though and Pakistan home record suffered as compared to previous eras because opposition team also had the fast bowlers to exploit conditions.

    Kholi has a chicken heart and just calls for muds every time he is threatened by the opposition. He has done nothing for Indian fast bowlers or cultures there are 1.3 billion Indians watching and seen their fast bowlers reduced to spectators lol.

  32. #31
    Debut
    Sep 2016
    Runs
    3,706
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    I would argue that India are worse players of spin than England. They just have far better spinners which makes their batting look somewhat competent in comparison. This Indian team won't last 25 overs if it were Murali or Warne bowling on these pitches.
    Similarly I can argue I am better player of spin than 22 players on show does not make it a reality. Lol @ England players being better players of spin.

  33. #32
    Debut
    Nov 2015
    Runs
    3,938
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    ...Meanwhile Ashwin 2nd fastest ever to 400 wickets


  34. #33
    Debut
    Nov 2005
    Venue
    England
    Runs
    24,628
    Mentioned
    582 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    They are brilliant bowlers in these conditions.

  35. #34
    Debut
    Jul 2017
    Runs
    1,368
    Mentioned
    90 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    Similarly I can argue I am better player of spin than 22 players on show does not make it a reality. Lol @ England players being better players of spin.
    India got rolled ever by Dom Bess of all people in the 1st innings of the 1st Test lol and that pitch was a phatta. Someone who was dropped in the next match because he couldn't land the ball on the pitch.

    Not to mention they got destroyed by a top order batsman 6 hours ago. I'm not sure if that's the best exhibition of playing spin bowling I've ever seen.

  36. #35
    Debut
    Sep 2016
    Runs
    3,706
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    India got rolled ever by Dom Bess of all people in the 1st innings of the 1st Test lol and that pitch was a phatta. Someone who was dropped in the next match because he couldn't land the ball on the pitch.

    Not to mention they got destroyed by a top order batsman 6 hours ago. I'm not sure if that's the best exhibition of playing spin bowling I've ever seen.
    Dom bess is a full time spin bowler who was bowling after his team had put up a big total and Indian better chocked under pressure.

  37. #36
    Debut
    Jul 2017
    Runs
    1,368
    Mentioned
    90 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    Similarly I can argue I am better player of spin than 22 players on show does not make it a reality. Lol @ England players being better players of spin.
    India got rolled over by Dom Bess of all people in the 1st innings of the 1st Test lol and that pitch was a phatta. Someone who was dropped in the next match because he couldn't land the ball on the pitch.

    Not to mention they got destroyed by a top order batsman 6 hours ago. I'm not sure if that's the best exhibition of playing spin bowling I've ever seen.

  38. #37
    Debut
    Mar 2004
    Venue
    Manchester, UK
    Runs
    107,158
    Mentioned
    676 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Puffs of dust coming out of the pitch almost every other ball hitting the surface. Hope ICC deduct points from India for this pathetic surface.

  39. #38
    Debut
    Aug 2010
    Venue
    Sheffield
    Runs
    37,395
    Mentioned
    1278 Post(s)
    Tagged
    12 Thread(s)
    Ashwin is an outstanding bowler regardless.

    However 30 wickets falling before the end of Day 2 is absurd even accounting for woeful batting techniques against spin.

    There's home advantage which I support, and there's extreme conditions. I don't support ENG or NZL producing surfaces indistinguishable from the outfield either.

  40. #39
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    Sheffield
    Runs
    38,434
    Mentioned
    518 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Don't have an issue with using home advantage but this is a bit OTT. On day 2 it's nearly unplayable. Not fair for batsmen at all.

  41. #40
    Debut
    Oct 2011
    Runs
    28
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It is a mockery of test cricket.

  42. #41
    Debut
    Nov 2012
    Runs
    3,781
    Mentioned
    381 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I don't know guys, I'm an Indian and I haven't enjoyed today's game at all, sheer mockery of test cricket indeed. We have the team to win on normal subcontinental tracks, I don't know what's the whole point in preparing such tracks.

  43. #42
    Debut
    Feb 2018
    Venue
    USA
    Runs
    4,949
    Mentioned
    53 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sam_ahm View Post
    I don't know guys, I'm an Indian and I haven't enjoyed today's game at all, sheer mockery of test cricket indeed. We have the team to win on normal subcontinental tracks, I don't know what's the whole point in preparing such tracks.
    My sentiments as well.

  44. #43
    Debut
    Sep 2019
    Runs
    4,704
    Mentioned
    87 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ashwin outperformed Nathan Lyon in Australia.

    Jadeja too.

    Keep the tears flowing though.

  45. #44
    Debut
    Sep 2019
    Runs
    2,456
    Mentioned
    71 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sam_ahm View Post
    I don't know guys, I'm an Indian and I haven't enjoyed today's game at all, sheer mockery of test cricket indeed. We have the team to win on normal subcontinental tracks, I don't know what's the whole point in preparing such tracks.
    Yes. This isn’t fun but I just saw the replay of the dismissals, not a single awkward bounce or balls keeping low. Remember this is pink ball, India was allout for 36, did people blame the pitch?

    All the wickets were batsmen missing the straight ball at a reasonable bounce.

  46. #45
    Debut
    Jul 2011
    Venue
    Washington
    Runs
    54
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    This test pitch might be bad. Not watching the game. Going by OP logic, the runs scored by Indian batsmen should be valued high as well!!

  47. #46
    Debut
    Nov 2015
    Runs
    3,938
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sam_ahm View Post
    I don't know guys, I'm an Indian and I haven't enjoyed today's game at all, sheer mockery of test cricket indeed. We have the team to win on normal subcontinental tracks, I don't know what's the whole point in preparing such tracks.
    I have enjoyed this thoroughly. DOesn't matter if our batsmen are poor vs spin too. Been waiting for a long time now to watch a visiting team on our pitches.

  48. #47
    Debut
    Jan 2020
    Venue
    India
    Runs
    1,092
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sam_ahm View Post
    I don't know guys, I'm an Indian and I haven't enjoyed today's game at all, sheer mockery of test cricket indeed. We have the team to win on normal subcontinental tracks, I don't know what's the whole point in preparing such tracks.
    Jimmy reversing it in the first test while we missed our bowlers who could do that, has basically forced our hand. The second test pitch was ok, but yeah this has gone a bit too far

  49. #48
    Debut
    Oct 2015
    Runs
    15,287
    Mentioned
    367 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Ah the typical call every Indian cricketer overrated at the first opportunity thread. It's one thing to trash on the wicket or the BCCI for allowing this to happen. But this is the other end of the spectrum trashing all Indian wickets when this hasn't been the norm. Otherwise both Ashwin and Jadeja wouldn't be doing good outside asia if that was the case.

    Ashwin averages 29 and Jadeja 26 with the ball in SENA countries in the last five years.

  50. #49
    Debut
    Jun 2017
    Venue
    Toronto, Canada
    Runs
    3,321
    Mentioned
    215 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by OldWarHorse View Post
    Jimmy reversing it in the first test while we missed our bowlers who could do that, has basically forced our hand. The second test pitch was ok, but yeah this has gone a bit too far
    First test match was the root cause of all the problems. Curator shouldn’t have done experiment on pitch preparation which resulted in absolute patta for first two days and deteriorated on day 3 onwards. Good thing that curator have been demoted to domestics. This whole series have turned into one big mess which I can’t wait for it to be over.

    Lastly, India should either get rid of D/N test matches or only host against Asian/WI side and prepare proper green track.

  51. #50
    Debut
    Mar 2015
    Runs
    8,840
    Mentioned
    44 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    99% of these wickets have been literally straight balls that batsmen keep missing, nothing to do with square turn or anything. It was Root that benefitted from that. Axar Patel has been bowling straight and arm balls all day. Ashwin smashed Pope's off stump twice with literal straight balls. Just horrible batting from both sides


    Arsenal all the way!! (and Pakistan, of course!)

  52. #51
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    London UK
    Runs
    1,076
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This pitch is not fit for a five day test match.

  53. #52
    Debut
    Feb 2021
    Runs
    173
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Forum363 View Post
    Nawaz would have a better record than Herath and Zulfiqar Babar would still be playing.
    forget muhammed nawaz...you could roll nawaz sharif onto this wicket and he would waddle in and take some wickets its that bad

  54. #53
    Debut
    Feb 2021
    Runs
    173
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebat View Post
    99% of these wickets have been literally straight balls that batsmen keep missing, nothing to do with square turn or anything. It was Root that benefitted from that. Axar Patel has been bowling straight and arm balls all day. Ashwin smashed Pope's off stump twice with literal straight balls. Just horrible batting from both sides
    30 wickets in two days.... all down to horrible batting ... if so then test cricket is truly dying a death

  55. #54
    Debut
    Mar 2014
    Runs
    727
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well done India....great victory

  56. #55
    Debut
    Mar 2015
    Runs
    8,840
    Mentioned
    44 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by LeedsGreen View Post
    30 wickets in two days.... all down to horrible batting ... if so then test cricket is truly dying a death
    Read about and watch all the England dismissals again. You will see the same phrases copied and pasted almost every time. "Played for the turn, ball stayed on with the angle"

    England's 1st innings, these were the spinner wickets with straight balls: Crawley, Bairstow, Stokes, Pope, Foakes, Archer. Sibley got out to the fast bowler, Root and Leach done by spin and Broad out slogging.

    England have no-one but themselves to blame for getting bowled out for 112 I'm afraid. Not saying it was a 5 day quality pitch (and I obviously exaggerated massively in my original post), but with some sensible batting, this would not have been over in 2 days.


    Arsenal all the way!! (and Pakistan, of course!)

  57. #56
    Debut
    Aug 2018
    Runs
    10,225
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebat View Post
    99% of these wickets have been literally straight balls that batsmen keep missing, nothing to do with square turn or anything. It was Root that benefitted from that. Axar Patel has been bowling straight and arm balls all day. Ashwin smashed Pope's off stump twice with literal straight balls. Just horrible batting from both sides
    This! Well said.

    As for the sooks, keep on sooking, doesn't change anything.

  58. #57
    Debut
    Aug 2018
    Runs
    10,225
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by pillionrider View Post
    I have enjoyed this thoroughly. DOesn't matter if our batsmen are poor vs spin too. Been waiting for a long time now to watch a visiting team on our pitches.
    Me too. A very well deserved win in this test despite losing the toss.

  59. #58
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Runs
    15,945
    Mentioned
    75 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    India going from 99/2 to 145 all out is unforgivable. I blame the Indian batsmen. You cannot lose wickets to a rookie like Leach and a part timer like Root. I won't blame the pitch one bit. India has played on far worse surfaces than this where even the legends struggled like the Mumbai test.

  60. #59
    Debut
    Aug 2011
    Runs
    22,734
    Mentioned
    380 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebat View Post
    99% of these wickets have been literally straight balls that batsmen keep missing, nothing to do with square turn or anything. It was Root that benefitted from that. Axar Patel has been bowling straight and arm balls all day. Ashwin smashed Pope's off stump twice with literal straight balls. Just horrible batting from both sides
    Straight ball wickets came due to batsmen playing for turn. Eng has been playing poorly and has not scored 200+ in the last 5 innings. India is also not good against spin and Eng not playing spinners made it easier for Eng.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  61. #60
    Debut
    Aug 2011
    Runs
    22,734
    Mentioned
    380 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Have we seen 100/2 and then collapse in flat roads, turners, seamers, and swinging conditions?

    I have seen it many times.

    That's why I won't read much into the total score or match getting done in 2 days. If Eng can't bat even 50 overs in an inning then one collapse by another team will result in a match not lasting long.

    Pitch is poor due to turning too much too early. Total score or total time is not a good way to see. Eng has been batting like an associate team in their last 5 innings as soon as the turn came in the picture.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  62. #61
    Debut
    Dec 2011
    Runs
    18,754
    Mentioned
    766 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Some posters think any Pakistani spinner would do well here. So clueless. On such pitches , you need to be rapid (90 kph speed) and accurate always targeting the stumps. Jadeja and Axar can do that. Neither yasir nor shadab have the accuracy for that.


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

  63. #62
    Debut
    Feb 2021
    Runs
    173
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    Some posters think any Pakistani spinner would do well here. So clueless. On such pitches , you need to be rapid (90 kph speed) and accurate always targeting the stumps. Jadeja and Axar can do that. Neither yasir nor shadab have the accuracy for that.
    in which case imad wasim would take all 10 wickets alone ;)

  64. #63
    Debut
    Aug 2011
    Runs
    22,734
    Mentioned
    380 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jnaveen1980 View Post
    India going from 99/2 to 145 all out is unforgivable. I blame the Indian batsmen. You cannot lose wickets to a rookie like Leach and a part timer like Root. I won't blame the pitch one bit. India has played on far worse surfaces than this where even the legends struggled like the Mumbai test.
    If India has added 50-75 more runs, Match would have done by India winning by an inning and there would have been a lot less talk of the pitch.

    Even with a collapse 99/2, the result is 10 wickets loss for Eng. If I was Eng, I will focus less on talking about pitch and focus on getting better on turning tracks.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  65. #64
    Debut
    Dec 2011
    Runs
    18,754
    Mentioned
    766 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by LeedsGreen View Post
    in which case imad wasim would take all 10 wickets alone ;)
    He doesnt have the fitness to bowl long spells according to what he has said himself.


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

  66. #65
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    UK
    Runs
    553
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Everybody blaming the pitch ought to look at the fact that it was very poor batting on both sides. The pitch was not dangerous and was consistently turning. The lack of skill in handling the turn is what hastened the outcome. In this era of fast paced cricket, sadly playing spin is an art lost

    Not sure how many of the young posters here know that back in the day when Field hockey reigned supreme and was played on grass, both India & Pakistan were kings because of their ability to control the ball on an uneven surface. The Legendary Dhyan Chand, Hasan Sardar and others were notable for their skills to control the ball. The West didn't appreciate and introduced Astroturf which essentially reduced the game of skill to flat out power play and we all know the outcome.

  67. #66
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Runs
    15,945
    Mentioned
    75 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    If India has added 50-75 more runs, Match would have done by India winning by an inning and there would have been a lot less talk of the pitch.

    Even with a collapse 99/2, the result is 10 wickets loss for Eng. If I was Eng, I will focus less on talking about pitch and focus on getting better on turning tracks.
    This is not the first time India has struggled against spin. Kohli has gone from handling Mendis/Murali/Ajmal aplomb to struggling big time against semi part timers. Even in the IPL we are seeing this. He has regressed against spin. Rahane sucks against spin. It is an open secret. One of the worst INdian middle order against spin. Pujara has gone down as well. India struggles against spinners even on a balanced pitch.

  68. #67
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Runs
    15,945
    Mentioned
    75 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by fitCricFan View Post
    Everybody blaming the pitch ought to look at the fact that it was very poor batting on both sides. The pitch was not dangerous and was consistently turning. The lack of skill in handling the turn is what hastened the outcome. In this era of fast paced cricket, sadly playing spin is an art lost

    Not sure how many of the young posters here know that back in the day when Field hockey reigned supreme and was played on grass, both India & Pakistan were kings because of their ability to control the ball on an uneven surface. The Legendary Dhyan Chand, Hasan Sardar and others were notable for their skills to control the ball. The West didn't appreciate and introduced Astroturf which essentially reduced the game of skill to flat out power play and we all know the outcome.
    Yes. Current Indian team is probably a shade better. Only a shade than any visiting side against spin. They are equally susceptible to collapse.

  69. #68
    Debut
    Aug 2011
    Runs
    22,734
    Mentioned
    380 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jnaveen1980 View Post
    This is not the first time India has struggled against spin. Kohli has gone from handling Mendis/Murali/Ajmal aplomb to struggling big time against semi part timers. Even in the IPL we are seeing this. He has regressed against spin. Rahane sucks against spin. It is an open secret. One of the worst INdian middle order against spin. Pujara has gone down as well. India struggles against spinners even on a balanced pitch.
    India is pretty poor against spin as well. I would have loved to see Indians batting against Jadeja and Ashwin.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  70. #69
    Debut
    Nov 2017
    Runs
    4,058
    Mentioned
    137 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)
    Someone please start a thread titled
    "Should Waqar Younis', Wasim Akram, Imran Khan, Sarfaraz Nawaz be stripped of their records on grounds of using tampered ball throughout their career"

    Atleast Ashwin's wickets are legal.

    Idiotic threads like these deserve a retort.

  71. #70
    Debut
    Nov 2014
    Runs
    3,700
    Mentioned
    361 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Like yuvraj Singh said harbahjan and Kumble would have 1000 test wickets each if they played on a pitch like this
    Last edited by silentkiller187; 25th February 2021 at 21:08.

  72. #71
    Debut
    Aug 2013
    Runs
    658
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    In fact any home records of all indian players shold be discarded as they are resuls of cheating by indians

  73. #72
    Debut
    Mar 2015
    Runs
    563
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Indians are at it again. This pitch should be reported.

    Seems like BCCI just doesn't want to loose at home after Ist test Massacre by England.

  74. #73
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    UK
    Runs
    553
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MesonK View Post
    Indians are at it again. This pitch should be reported.

    Seems like BCCI just doesn't want to loose at home after Ist test Massacre by England.
    Yeah, neither did the Aussies after their 1st test drubbing to India. Stop whining

  75. #74
    Debut
    Sep 2015
    Runs
    20,031
    Mentioned
    389 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Wasim is the only ATG bowler Pakistan has produced.

    Imran and Waqar didn't had the skills to get 400 wickets without illegal bowls.

  76. #75
    Debut
    Jan 2013
    Venue
    2021
    Runs
    45,048
    Mentioned
    2451 Post(s)
    Tagged
    16 Thread(s)
    Joe Root had figures of 0-3 after 3 overs

    No one should take any Indian spinners stats seriously, they're considerably propped up by Indian pitches.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  77. #76
    Debut
    Jan 2020
    Runs
    164
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    And the runs scored by indian batsmen at home should be valued highly.
    You can't have it both ways.

  78. #77
    Debut
    Jan 2020
    Runs
    164
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Haha were you sincerely waiting for indian loss after they lost the toss? It's really hard time for you guys since the start of 2021. 2-1 series win in Australia and now 2-1 against England.

  79. #78
    Debut
    Aug 2011
    Runs
    22,734
    Mentioned
    380 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    The last 40 years in India - visiting spinners with 5+ tests and 10+ wickets. The last man got cut off, but enough here.
    .
    .

    Name:  India_5.jpg
Views: 535
Size:  381.3 KB
    .
    .

    Herath, Murali, Warne, Underwood, Vettori, Kaneria, Paneshar, Ali -- So many ATG figures in India.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  80. #79
    Debut
    Aug 2011
    Runs
    22,734
    Mentioned
    380 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    India spinners wickets in India should not be counted. I won't count it even in Aus because they did well in the last two visits there. Not in WI. Now in SL. Not even in Eng if they somehow have a dry pitch.

    Now if it's a green mamba in NZ, Eng, and SA --- The only one that should be counted.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  81. #80
    Debut
    Aug 2010
    Runs
    839
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Indian team is pretty average. It's evident by the type of pitches they produce in home conditions and then to lose a test with such friendly conditions is shameful. UAE pitches were more competitive than the mockery we saw made of test cricket here.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •