Should wickets taken by Indian spinners at home be valued highly? - Page 2


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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    India spinners wickets in India should not be counted. I won't count it even in Aus because they did well in the last two visits there. Not in WI. Now in SL. Not even in Eng if they somehow have a dry pitch.

    Now if it's a green mamba in NZ, Eng, and SA --- The only one that should be counted.
    Good to see you've stopped pretending to be a neutral, South African fan. Not sure what you're trying to say by posting the record of visiting spinners from 40 years ago.

    Root just took 5 wicket for 8 runs. Moeen took 8 wickets (should have had 10) right after getting off his couch. Not too long ago, O'Keefe wrecked India and everyone remembers Elgar also getting a five-for.

    There is NOTHING wrong about India preparing such pitches. However, it is idiotic to not accept that Indian spinners have it extremely easy. Playing on a rank-turner or two every other series and never being tested against Pakistan, who have had some of the best players of spin in recent times.


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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Local.Dada View Post
    By the same logic how many more wickets would Kapil Dev had if he was bowling with a half shredded ball that was doing tricks?
    Not many more. Kapil was never quick enough to make effective use of reverse swing against batsmen with good techniques.


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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Not sure what you're trying to say by posting the record of visiting spinners from 40 years ago.
    Using Root, Clarke, etc to make a point that it's easy to take wickets for all spinners in India is silly. If it was so easy then over the last 40 years, we should have seen lots of spinners having a great record in India.


    Ratnayeke 83/8 , Pringle 52/7, Wickramasinghe 103/6 , Doull (45/5) etc does not prove that it's easy for pacers to take wickets in Pakistan. For that, you will simply take an overall figure over a long period like 40 years.


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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Not many more. Kapil was never quick enough to make effective use of reverse swing against batsmen with good techniques.
    It’s only a speculation from both sides. He didn’t try it because he didn’t believe in short cuts. By principle of integrity he gets the leap of faith here along with his 600+ intl wickets through sheer hard work and bowling acumen.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Using Root, Clarke, etc to make a point that it's easy to take wickets for all spinners in India is silly. If it was so easy then over the last 40 years, we should have seen lots of spinners having a great record in India.


    Ratnayeke 83/8 , Pringle 52/7, Wickramasinghe 103/6 , Doull (45/5) etc does not prove that it's easy for pacers to take wickets in Pakistan. For that, you will simply take an overall figure over a long period like 40 years.
    I have not seen a single human being making the claim that it has been easy for spinners, over the last 40 years to take wickets in India. How could anyone make that claim when Murali and Warne both have 40+ averages in India? They have had some of the greatest players of spin-bowling in the past.

    The argument is that in recent times, India has prepared some absolute dust bowls and that spinners essentially get free wickets on such pitches. I have no idea how you can deny such an obvious reality.
    Last edited by Bilal7; 25th February 2021 at 23:53.


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  7. #86
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    Thread is - Should wickets taken by Indian spinners at home be valued highly.

    It can be changed to - Should wickets were taken by Indian spinners at home be valued highly even if visiting spinners have a horrible record in India?


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  8. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Not many more. Kapil was never quick enough to make effective use of reverse swing against batsmen with good techniques.
    Have you seen Anderson reverse the ball?

  9. #88
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    These Indo-Saffer fans are becoming more desperate these days.

    Bowling averages of some of the test spinners in India in last 10 years -

    Swann - 24
    Panesar - 26
    Lyon - 30

    And then,

    O'Keefe - 23
    Leech - 26
    Bess - 25
    Elgar - 27
    Tahir - 21
    Cornwall - 12( 1 test but 10 wickets)
    Harmer - 25

    Aside of a few flat wickets here and there for weaker batting lineups like NZ, SA, SL, WI and BD, these stats of average bowlers tells you that you give these guys home matches in India and they will also take 300-400 wickets for fun.
    Last edited by Ted123; 26th February 2021 at 00:09.

  10. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    I have not seen a single human being making the claim that it has been easy for spinners, over the last 40 years to take wickets in India. How could anyone make that claim when Murali and Warne both have 40+ averages in India?

    The argument is that in recent times, India has prepared some absolute dustbowls and that spinners essentially get free wickets on such pitches. I have no idea how you can deny such an obvious reality.
    India had an absolute dustbowl in 90s as well. Plenty of rank turners. You are probably too young, but Warne on rank turners against SRT on 4th/5th-day pitch was a cracker to watch.

    Thread is about wickets in Indian pitches by spinners and if they should be discarded. If it is so easy to pick up wickets for visiting spinners in India then we should see it reflected in the record. Reflected on record is not about one spell.

    For example. Ali may have bowled one good spell in India, but when all said and done he averages near 50 in India in 6 tests.

    Should I look at one spell to say that it is easy for a spinner to pick up wickets in India or should I look at Ali's record in 6 tests to judge how hard or how easy it has been Ali to pick up wickets in India?


    If pretty much all spinners have an ordinary overall record in India then it's safe to say that they don't find it easy to pick up wickets in India.

    I look at it this way, if spinners get free wickets as a group in India and still have ordinary records then something is not making sense here.


    Theoretically, it should be easier for spinners to do well as a group in India, but our mind mostly remembers rank turners and forget about roads Eng got in the last series where 400-500 runs were scored for fun by both sides. That's the reason, the collective figure is not simply about rank turner here and there. It is about over record over a long period. Very few spinners have done well in India.
    Last edited by Buffet; 26th February 2021 at 00:13.


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  11. #90
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    Not sure about you guys but not many of the guys with sub-30 averages are world class spin bowlers.


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  12. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    India had an absolute dustbowl in 90s as well. Plenty of rank turners. You are probably too young, but Warne on rank turners against SRT on 4th/5th-day pitch was a cracker to watch.

    Thread is about wickets in Indian pitches by spinners and if they should be discarded. If it is so easy to pick up wickets for visiting spinners in India then we should see it reflected in the record. Reflected on record is not about one spell.

    For example. Ali may have bowled one good spell in India, but when all said and done he averages near 50 in India in 6 tests.

    Should I look at one spell to say that it is easy for a spinner to pick up wickets in India or should I look at Ali's record in 6 tests to judge how hard or how easy it has been Ali to pick up wickets in India?


    If pretty much all spinners have an ordinary overall record in India then it's safe to say that they don't find it easy to pick up wickets in India.

    I look at it this way, if spinners get free wickets as a group in India and still have ordinary records then something is not making sense here.


    Theoretically, it should be easier for spinners to do well as a group in India, but our mind mostly remembers rank turners and forget about roads Eng got in the last series where 400-500 runs were scored for fun by both sides. That's the reason, the collective figure is not simply about rank turner here and there. It is about over record over a long period. Very few spinners have done well in India.
    You're probably too old. Forget about the 90s, this thread was made because of the recent test matches being played in India. The OP should clarify so that we can move past Shane Warne.

    If you watched that test match, you would definitely conclude that bowling spin on that pitch was quite easy. Moeen Ali was injured, recovering from Covid and hadn't played a FC match in years before he took 8 wickets.

    He also played several matches on regular pitches (on which Ashwin averaged 30+, if I'm not mistaken) and no one had an issue with the inflated records of Indian spinners at that time.


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  13. #92
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    The trick on these pitches is not to spin the ball too much - and let the ball do its thing. That's what I think Bedi had told Iqbal Qasim and Tauseef before the '86 Bangalore test which helped Pakistan win the match. Pakistan took out Qadir for that game because he would rev the ball too much.

    That is why I believe Warne has struggled in India. He tried to do too much - as opposed to do too little.

    The only criticism of such pitches i have is that it makes heroes out of nobodies - like Clarke, Root etc. They don't spin the ball much and therefore end up taking wickets.

  14. #93
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  15. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    You're probably too old. Forget about the 90s, this thread was made because of the recent test matches being played in India. The OP should clarify so that we can move past Shane Warne.

    If you watched that test match, you would definitely conclude that bowling spin on that pitch was quite easy. Moeen Ali was injured, recovering from Covid and hadn't played a FC match in years before he took 8 wickets.

    He also played several matches on regular pitches (on which Ashwin averaged 30+, if I'm not mistaken) and no one had an issue with the inflated records of Indian spinners at that time.
    That series was in 2016/2017. If you think free wickets came after that,

    Ashwin's average at the end of 2016: 24
    Ashwin's average at the end of 2017: 25
    Ashwin's average at the and of 2018: 25
    Ashwin's average at the end of 2019: 25
    Ashwin's average at the end of 2020: 25

    Jadeja's average at the end of 2017: 24
    Jadeja's average at the and of 2018: 24
    Jadeja's average at the end of 2019: 24
    Jadeja's average at the end of 2020: 24


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  16. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corridor of Uncertainty View Post
    The trick on these pitches is not to spin the ball too much - and let the ball do its thing. That's what I think Bedi had told Iqbal Qasim and Tauseef before the '86 Bangalore test which helped Pakistan win the match. Pakistan took out Qadir for that game because he would rev the ball too much.

    That is why I believe Warne has struggled in India. He tried to do too much - as opposed to do too little.

    The only criticism of such pitches i have is that it makes heroes out of nobodies - like Clarke, Root etc. They don't spin the ball much and therefore end up taking wickets.
    That's a great point. It is true even for swing. Too much swing is good for only great batsmen who are good enough to get close.


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  17. #96
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    I wish our spinners like Yasir Shah, Shadab and Iftikhar were getting to enjoy these pitches. Real injustice to our spinners for not playing on those conditions.

  18. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
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    Not sure about you guys but not many of the guys with sub-30 averages are world class spin bowlers.
    Rakheem Cornwall 7 for came agsinist Afghanistan.

    Amir Hamza also took wickets against some non Indian team.

    Look at the sample size, many have less than 10 wickets.

    You are being desperate.

  19. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozeirk View Post
    I wish our spinners like Yasir Shah, Shadab and Iftikhar were getting to enjoy these pitches. Real injustice to our spinners for not playing on those conditions.
    Your batsmen wont be enjoying. Considering how Maharaj made them dance.

  20. #99
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    I have no clue what would Kohli/Shastri achieve by getting such pitches made. It's not even been a month since you returned from such a glorious victorious tour so why on earth you have to come up with such third grade pitches. This is not agressive captaincy but Imran Khan style defensive captaincy when you just don't want to take any risk while at home.

  21. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by happydavy View Post
    I have no clue what would Kohli/Shastri achieve by getting such pitches made. It's not even been a month since you returned from such a glorious victorious tour so why on earth you have to come up with such third grade pitches. This is not agressive captaincy but Imran Khan style defensive captaincy when you just don't want to take any risk while at home.

    I suspect it has something to do with the pink ball having an extra cover and higher seam.

    Let's see how the pitch behaves with the red ball in the next test.


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  22. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitCricFan View Post
    Yeah, neither did the Aussies after their 1st test drubbing to India. Stop whining
    Austrailia didn't mine the pitch to suit their spinners.

    India should stop hiding behind doctored pitches on which game ends the 2nd day. It happens no where.
    Why is BCCI scared to field out sporting pitches is beyond me.

  23. #102
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    After the 2005 series and his performances I always felt someone like an Afridi could have had a borderline great test career if he played in India on those pitches.

  24. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Your batsmen wont be enjoying. Considering how Maharaj made them dance.
    He averaged 31 in that series...

  25. #104
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    I have a feeling BCCI will do the same thing in T20I WC to grab the trophy at all costs. Teams will get bowled out by mediocre spinners and part timers below 100.

    Sportsman spirit at its lowest.

  26. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellipsism View Post
    He averaged 31 in that series...
    And no test ended in 2 days either.

  27. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by MesonK View Post
    I have a feeling BCCI will do the same thing in T20I WC to grab the trophy at all costs. Teams will get bowled out by mediocre spinners and part timers below 100.

    Sportsman spirit at its lowest.
    Nah this is a test match tactic, particularly against SENA teams. India are a capable enough t20 team on flattish wickets without risking losing the trophy to someone like Afghanistan or Sri Lanka who could easily outspin them.

  28. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by happydavy View Post
    I have no clue what would Kohli/Shastri achieve by getting such pitches made. It's not even been a month since you returned from such a glorious victorious tour so why on earth you have to come up with such third grade pitches. This is not agressive captaincy but Imran Khan style defensive captaincy when you just don't want to take any risk while at home.
    Following the loss in the first game i imagine there were directives from higher up that the remaining tests must be won at all costs. The suits will really need India to be in that WTC final and couldn't take the risk of facing England on a fair playing field.

    Hence we saw the shameless display from the curators over the next 2 tests who were of course following orders.
    Last edited by hitthestump; 26th February 2021 at 05:28.

  29. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitthestump View Post
    Following the loss in the first game i imagine there were directives from higher up that the remaining tests must be won at all costs. The suits will really need India to be in that WTC final and couldn't take the risk of facing England on a fair playing field.

    Hence we saw the shameless display from the curators over the next 2 tests who were of course following orders.
    First test pitch was farce as well. Curator was experimenting with different soil in order to prepare ‘sporting pitch’ which cost India heavily after losing a toss. That curator got demoted right away for messing up important game. What we are seeing in last two match is, more of a counter measure to nullify toss. India were definitely on back foot, specially facing a prospect of losing WTC qualification.

    Next test match we might get to see 216-17 type batting pitch will also have something for both spinners and seamers. Quite frankly as an India fan, I don’t even know what is standard Indian pitch as we have habit of experimenting so much that every series we see different outcome.

  30. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by MesonK View Post
    I have a feeling BCCI will do the same thing in T20I WC to grab the trophy at all costs. Teams will get bowled out by mediocre spinners and part timers below 100.

    Sportsman spirit at its lowest.

    If you have figured out this devious plan by the BCCI, I wonder why all the coaches and analysts can’t figure it out either?

    Are you telling me no team in the world apart from India have batsmen to counter this strategy or competent spinners to beat India at its own game?

    Send an email to The PCB, I think you have it all figured out.

  31. #110
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    How do Mayank and Rohit Sharma have almost bradmanesque averages on these spinning minefields?

  32. #111
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    Disgraceful pitch! This isn’t Cricket..

  33. #112
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    Ashwin is still a good spinner, he has some qualities as a test match spinner.

    Jadeja is an average bowler, nearly no skill apart from keeping it tight and waiting for the pitch to do the rest.

  34. #113
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    I would put a big * next to these individual and team records. Would think most self respecting Indians would agree, but who knows these days

  35. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Local.Dada View Post
    How do Mayank and Rohit Sharma have almost bradmanesque averages on these spinning minefields?
    Oh you don't know the algorithm?

    "Flat roads" when India bat...

    "Dust bowls" when India bowl...

    Get a grip bro...

  36. #115
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    If Ashwin is an ATG, then so is Younis khan.

    10,000+ runs, 52 AVG , 50+ batting average in Australia and England and 34 test hundreds.

  37. #116
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    lol this, thread will be bumped every time India wins, Root taking a fifer is same as binny once in a blue moon taking 6 wickets against bangladesh these things do happen in cricket. but that does not mean anything, and if not taking indian spinners wickets in India then Andersons wickets on England should also doesn't count where he is avg around 23 everywhere else around 32.

  38. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted123 View Post
    If Ashwin is an ATG, then so is Younis khan.

    10,000+ runs, 52 AVG , 50+ batting average in Australia and England and 34 test hundreds.
    And Pujara is better than Younis Khan as he has an average of 60+ and batting half his career on the toughest wickets in the universe.

  39. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by The lone Ranger View Post
    And Pujara is better than Younis Khan as he has an average of 60+ and batting half his career on the toughest wickets in the universe.
    Rohit is even greater. He averages in 80s on these wickets.

  40. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    Rohit is even greater. He averages in 80s on these wickets.
    And Mayank is at Don Bradman level with an average of 99.5 in these conditions....

  41. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by The lone Ranger View Post
    And Pujara is better than Younis Khan as he has an average of 60+ and batting half his career on the toughest wickets in the universe.
    Does Pujara has 10,000 runs? What is his SENA record?

    Does Rohit average 80 at home after 80 tests? These are first turners he is playing.

    Does Mayank average 80 at home after 80 tests?

    Younis ticks most of the boxes of longevity and performance across all conditions unlike Ashwin let alone Rohit or Pujara.

  42. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Rakheem Cornwall 7 for came agsinist Afghanistan.

    Amir Hamza also took wickets against some non Indian team.

    Look at the sample size, many have less than 10 wickets.

    You are being desperate.
    It's not about sample size. This shows you how players who are not good test spinners manage to do very well on some Indian pitches. It also informs you that Indian spinners have incredibly inflated records. It has nothing to do with the Indian batsmen who gave a five-for to Joe Root and Dean Elgar. We already know any part-timer can bowl them out on rank turners.

    However, you'd have to be something other than a shill to see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted123 View Post
    If Ashwin is an ATG, then so is Younis khan.

    10,000+ runs, 52 AVG , 50+ batting average in Australia and England and 34 test hundreds.
    There is no comparison between a bonafide ATG like Younis Khan and Ravi Ashwin. The former has been great in SENA and has also faced Indian spinners during his career.

    Ashwin has been mediocre or poor in every single SENA country, with no five-fors and has never been tested against the Pakistani batsmen, who had some of the best players of spin during his career.

    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    Rohit is even greater. He averages in 80s on these wickets.
    Against the likes of Harmer, Bess, Sodhi, Leach, Root, O'Keefe and other garbage test spinners. What's so special about doing well against part-timers and full toss machines even on rank turners?

    It's not like the Indian batsmen are batting against Pakistani spinners on these dust-bowls.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  43. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    I remember several rank turners over the last few years. Mohali, Nagpur and Kolkata during the series against against South Africa in 2015; that pitch during the series against Australia where O'Keefe wrecked India; and now you have two in the current series already.

    I'm sure I'm forgetting some since I haven't followed cricket in some time. It seems that whenever India has a big series on the line, a rank turner is produced. They don't seem to do that against the subcontinent teams or weaker teams like New Zealand.

    I don't mind it much, they are entitled to do whatever they want with their home pitches. However, it does lead to some incredibly boring cricket and one-dimensional cricket after a while and to see people calling Ashwin and Jadeja ATGs based on getting a bunch of free wickets is just hilarious.

    You also cannot rate the Indian batsmen too highly because its not like they are batting on rank turners against the likes of Yasir Shah. They're batting on rank turners against the likes of Joe Root and O'Keefe.
    I think people generally underestimate a good knock on a bad pitch if the bowlers are not ATG. Sometimes a mediocre bowler might be bowling better than an ATG because of various reasons, bowler having a good day, friendly pitch, favourable conditions.
    Whereas any ATG bowler might have an off day and bowl badly, if a player scores runs against him that day, that doesn't mean his innings better than the innings played in difficult condition.

    Every innings should be judged on basis of how the bowling was that day not who the bowler was. It's impossible to watch every innings and judge batsmen overall record like that, hence this only applies to when ranking ATG innings.

    I don't think anyone calls Jadeja an ATG. He's a pretty good bowler in useful conditions and a decent bat.

    There have been rank Turner's no doubt, SA series in 2015 and this series come to mind.

  44. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    The players you have mentioned are all time greats against spin bowling so they would still have been alright. But no one can tell me Ashwin is a better bowler than Kumble.
    Kumble wasn't exactly a beast away from home either. He was a fighter and a very good bowler, probably one of the most dangerous bowlers in favourable conditions.

  45. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_gamer007 View Post
    I think people generally underestimate a good knock on a bad pitch if the bowlers are not ATG. Sometimes a mediocre bowler might be bowling better than an ATG because of various reasons, bowler having a good day, friendly pitch, favourable conditions.
    Whereas any ATG bowler might have an off day and bowl badly, if a player scores runs against him that day, that doesn't mean his innings better than the innings played in difficult condition.

    Every innings should be judged on basis of how the bowling was that day not who the bowler was. It's impossible to watch every innings and judge batsmen overall record like that, hence this only applies to when ranking ATG innings.

    I don't think anyone calls Jadeja an ATG. He's a pretty good bowler in useful conditions and a decent bat.

    There have been rank Turner's no doubt, SA series in 2015 and this series come to mind.
    Yes, what you say is true but you also provide the reasoning behind why this is not a realistic approach. Especially in the modern era, where teams like England play close to 15 tests a year.

    Jadeja and Ashwin have had similar performances. Ashwin just has more volume. They're both good bowlers and I'd love to have either playing for Pakistan but neither of them is an ATG. The people who peddle the "Ashwin is an ATG" are forced to put Jadeja on a pedestal as well otherwise their argument falls flat.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  46. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_gamer007 View Post
    Kumble wasn't exactly a beast away from home either. He was a fighter and a very good bowler, probably one of the most dangerous bowlers in favourable conditions.
    Kumble hardly ever bowled a bad ball always right at the spot for asian conditions. He didnt get a treat every other test match like Ashwin and Co have got in their career due to Dhoni and Kholi demanding these kind of pitches more and more. Thats just a fact.

  47. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumper View Post
    lol this, thread will be bumped every time India wins, Root taking a fifer is same as binny once in a blue moon taking 6 wickets against bangladesh these things do happen in cricket. but that does not mean anything, and if not taking indian spinners wickets in India then Andersons wickets on England should also doesn't count where he is avg around 23 everywhere else around 32.
    So how often has the part time seam up equivalent of Joe Root (someone like Shan Masood) taken 5-8 in a test in England?

  48. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    Kumble hardly ever bowled a bad ball always right at the spot for asian conditions.
    So right about Jumbo here. Second best leg spinner of modern times.

  49. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakhs View Post
    Kumble hardly ever bowled a bad ball always right at the spot for asian conditions. He didnt get a treat every other test match like Ashwin and Co have got in their career due to Dhoni and Kholi demanding these kind of pitches more and more. Thats just a fact.
    You probably started watching cricket in the last 5 years? lol Kumble's entire career kickstarted duet to Azharuddin/Wadekar scheme of producing dust bowls where guys like Gooch, Gatting, Robin Smith were made to look like tailenders. Ball would scoot from day one. England just did not have the quality spinners to counter punch. Even Rajesh chauhan, Raju, Nilesh kulkarni, Sangvi would trouble the batsman. Personally most devastatingly turning pitch i have ever seen was Hirwani's first test where he took 16 wickets. Arshad ayub was far more dangerous that day. But it turned too much for him. If you ask me Ashwin got the least favorite conditions of all the bowlers. Only in this era seamers from India do extremely well in India. It suits seamers a lot more. This is more to do with appalling batting technique of England who got bowled out for low score 4 times in a row. If India gets bowled out for under 200 4 times in a row overseas you will be singing a different song.

  50. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnaveen1980 View Post
    You probably started watching cricket in the last 5 years? lol Kumble's entire career kickstarted duet to Azharuddin/Wadekar scheme of producing dust bowls where guys like Gooch, Gatting, Robin Smith were made to look like tailenders. Ball would scoot from day one. England just did not have the quality spinners to counter punch. Even Rajesh chauhan, Raju, Nilesh kulkarni, Sangvi would trouble the batsman. Personally most devastatingly turning pitch i have ever seen was Hirwani's first test where he took 16 wickets. Arshad ayub was far more dangerous that day. But it turned too much for him. If you ask me Ashwin got the least favorite conditions of all the bowlers. Only in this era seamers from India do extremely well in India. It suits seamers a lot more. This is more to do with appalling batting technique of England who got bowled out for low score 4 times in a row. If India gets bowled out for under 200 4 times in a row overseas you will be singing a different song.
    5 times in a row Eng has not crossed 180.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  51. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitthestump View Post
    So how often has the part time seam up equivalent of Joe Root (someone like Shan Masood) taken 5-8 in a test in England?
    Why would you use part time seamer when main seamers will be able to roll them over? Here England had no choice but to use him. Clarke has taken 6 for 9 in India. A match which had Gambhir/Sehwag/Tendulkar/Dravid/Laxman.

  52. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    5 times in a row.
    Yes. This is more to do with biased observation rather than anything else. I was completely shell shocked when India got rolled over 36 runs. Even after NZ series i was blaming India more than complaining about the pitches. Teams getting rolled over for low scores cannot be an indication pitch is bad. A seasoned Ranji side would have batted better than both Indian/England side on this pitch. It is a case of not being able to adapt.

  53. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Ashwin generally struggles on rank turners.

    Jadeja and Axar have boosted their stats for sure.
    Jadeja averages 22 in Aus,25 in SA and 33 away overall

    but carry on


    The only disability in life is a bad attitude. -Scott Hamilton

  54. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Against the likes of Harmer, Bess, Sodhi, Leach, Root, O'Keefe and other garbage test spinners. What's so special about doing well against part-timers and full toss machines even on rank turners?

    It's not like the Indian batsmen are batting against Pakistani spinners on these dust-bowls.
    First of all you forgot to include Herath and Lyon.Both of them are better than Yasir Shah or any other jobber spinner from Pakistan
    Secondly i just got these stats from one cricinfo video-

    Ashwin averages 22 at home and in those same matches other spinners averaged 35. So the idea that every tom dick and harry can get wickets on the same pitch belongs in the trash.

    Secondly Ashwin averages 25 in his career, in the matches in which he participated other Spinners average 35 yet Again. So here you go. Stats expose the assumption that any Spinner can do well in India, also this tells us how he is easily better than any other spinner in the world.
    Last edited by jeeteshssaxena; 28th February 2021 at 01:00.

  55. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saurav View Post
    Jadeja averages 22 in Aus,25 in SA and 33 away overall

    but carry on
    You rate Jadeja better than Ashwin and Kumble?

  56. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    You rate Jadeja better than Ashwin and Kumble?
    No,where have I said that?

    But he's not an avg bowler either who depends completely on pitches


    The only disability in life is a bad attitude. -Scott Hamilton

  57. #136
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    Jadeja is such an integral part of Indian test team home/away. Still not sold over Jadeja, the LoI player though.

  58. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    Jadeja is such an integral part of Indian test team home/away. Still not sold over Jadeja, the LoI player though.
    Yes should just play Tests.Will also extend his career

    We have lot of options in LOIs


    The only disability in life is a bad attitude. -Scott Hamilton

  59. #138
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    The 22-yard strip at Green Park track which will be used for the first Test between India and New Zealand may be devoid of any grass but won't show ready signs of wear and tear, insists local curator Shiv Kumar. There has been instances when instructions about certain specific types of pitches had come from the team management but Kumar said that this time neither coach Rahul Dravid nor skipper Ajinkya Rahane had any specific demands. "Neither did we get any instruction from BCCI nor did anyone from the team management contacted me asking for a rank turner. I have prepared a pitch keeping guidelines for a good pitch in mind," Kumar, who has been around for last two decades, told PTI.

    Kumar has been in charge of Green Park track for a long time and claimed that they have prepared a track which will last for more than three days.

    "There would be some amount of moisture as you expect in the month of November at this part of the world. However I can assure you that it is a firm track and won't break down easily," Kumar said.

    While the last Test at Kanpur between India and New Zealand in 2016 lasted till fifth day, there had been a trend over past few years where the visitors have been presented with rank turners and matches ending inside three days.

    "Some of the matches that ended inside three days had a lot to do with how modern batters with T20 temperament approach spinners. I am confident that the match won't end inside three days," said Kumar.

    https://sports.ndtv.com/india-vs-new...urator-2623248


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  60. #139
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    SENA pacers get a lot of their wickets on pace-friendly pitches. All teams try to take advantage of home conditions.

    Therefore, all wickets count.


    Bangladeshi Man

  61. #140
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    If its so easy,why can't opposition spinners do well and win enough games? Its not like we have great players of spin like Lara/Sehwag etc. Mayank averages 90+ in India


    The only disability in life is a bad attitude. -Scott Hamilton

  62. #141
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    The numbers are certainly misleading but OP must remember that not long ago Ashwin and Lyon were rated at same level even though Ashwin had average of 26 and Lyon had 32.

    Now, Ashwin has obviously outperformed him after the Australia series where Lyon was poor.

    So, the credit is given based on your impact only and not plain stats.

  63. #142
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    Indian team is not dependence on pitch conditions like some other teams who are can't even Play bouncing pitch .We won two consecutive series in Australia , Leading 2-1 in England . Next month's we are going to South Africa where we will win . A Test series win in Australia , England and South Africa has to be one the important achivement of any team . if this Indian team can win a series in Newzealand then This team can be considered ,one of the best team of all time .

  64. #143
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    Then Jimmy's wickets in UK and Rabada's in RSA shouldn't be counted.


    A true unbiased cricket lover from India

  65. #144
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    Quite disgraceful how the indians are always doctoring their wkts

  66. #145
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    All wickets should count.

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