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  1. #1
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    “If Kumble and Harbhajan bowled on these pitches they would have 1,000 & 800 wickets” : Yuvraj Singh

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    Do you guys agree?
    Last edited by MenInG; 26th February 2021 at 10:49.

  2. #2
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    Agreed, if they played on this same wicket every single time.

  3. #3
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    Yuvraj himself would have been better than Herath.

  4. #4
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    Both Kumble and Harbhajan were better than Ashwin , who is a also a very good bowler.

  5. #5
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    Nothing wrong in what he said. Ashwin and Patel took 18 wickets between them on this pitch. If they play every single game on this sort of a surface for another ~60 tests, they can pick another 500 wickets each. Ashwin can reach 900.

  6. #6
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    Kumble and Harbajhan were both not as good as Ashwin in my opinion


    Hard to get a handle on this double edged sword

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by moghul View Post
    Both Kumble and Harbhajan were better than Ashwin , who is a also a very good bowler.
    On what basis was Harbhajan better than Ashwin? Curious to hear your analysis.

  8. #8
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    This is true

    In Harbhajan's time , these kind of dust bowls were very rare. Don't remember any test against non-minnow team ending in 3 days in his time

    Kumble did get to bowl on a lot of spinning pitches in the 90s - South Africa were so angry with 1 such pitch in Kanpur ( 1996 ) that they produced a fast greentop at Durban where India folded for 100 & 66 in 2 innings

  9. #9
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    Bhajji averaged 39 outside India although he did have his moments.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by NishanKonar View Post
    This is true

    In Harbhajan's time , these kind of dust bowls were very rare. Don't remember any test against non-minnow team ending in 3 days in his time

    Kumble did get to bowl on a lot of spinning pitches in the 90s - South Africa were so angry with 1 such pitch in Kanpur ( 1996 ) that they produced a fast greentop at Durban where India folded for 100 & 66 in 2 innings
    https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...full-scorecard


    https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...full-scorecard


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    Agreed, if they played on this same wicket every single time.
    The bold part is the key and that's a reality for any bowler.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  12. #12
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    When Kumble and Harbhajan played there wasn't a Review system placed to help spinners with back pad, silly point catches, WK catches as well as LBW appeals which were usually very difficult to judge for an umpire back in those days when they knew they did not have the luxury of review system

    Comparing two different era is a very stupid thing and this make no sense especially in Cricket which is an always changing game every era

  13. #13
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    Why would he bring the names of bhajji and kumble up Its demeaning to the likes of ashwin by making him out to be an avge bowler which hes not

    Shouldve kepy his comments on the pitch strictly


    If pakistan cricket is to move forward they need to stop going back

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    Why would he bring the names of bhajji and kumble up Its demeaning to the likes of ashwin by making him out to be an avge bowler which hes not

    Shouldve kepy his comments on the pitch strictly
    I reckon a lot of folks do that to glorify their generation of players, which in a way appreciates their own achievements without them having to talk about themselves.

  15. #15
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    Everyone is entitled to their views.

    Out of Kumble, Bhajji and Ash...the most unluckiest of them all was Bhajji.

    Kumble had 90s Indian pitches.

    Ash had 2010s Indian pitches.

    Bhajji only had 2000s pitches which were much flatter. And by 2010, he was completely done.

    Bhajji had a peak (2001 Aus series) which Ashwin may never be able to match (was a die hard fan of Bhajji back then lol) but that dude had seriously modest returns outside India (especially post 2004).

    Issue is if Bhajji was playing today, he wouldn't wouldn't have had an international career. Or a very modest one with re-modelled action.

    If we take Yuvi's point about extrapolating a few instances into making sweeping judgements, then the likes of Kohli & Smith are undoubtedly better than Tendulkar cos they have to bat in these pitches.

    Imagine averaging 60 on these treacherous home tracks like Kohli.

    And what can we say about our Rohit who averages 80 or 90 here.
    Last edited by sensible-indian-fan; 26th February 2021 at 03:34.


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  16. #16
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    I guess Yuvi is also a Pakistani who was posting at 3 posts per minute during Root’s 5-fer

  17. #17
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    I remember the 2005 series in India and afridi winning the match with the ball on the 5th day.
    I ways thought that someone like an afridi would have had a genuinely good test career if he played in India.
    Last edited by ethan hunt; 26th February 2021 at 03:49.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbolt14 View Post
    I guess Yuvi is also a Pakistani who was posting at 3 posts per minute during Root’s 5-fer
    Can you blame them?

    It would be like watching a NBA bench player scoring a 50+ against the top team.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    On what basis was Harbhajan better than Ashwin? Curious to hear your analysis.
    On the basis that Ashwin is a current Indian player.

    Dravid better than Sachin, Srinath a legendary pace bowler, 'Can't turn the ball' Kumble a great leggie now, even Kapil is now thrown about often

  20. #20
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    Poor claim by Yuvraj. He's sinking rapidly in his mental age. In an interview with Rohit during lockdown he was talking about behaviour of juniors in his time and so on, as if he was a contemporary of Kirmani or something.

    I've watched Kumble run riot on similar pitches which were worse due to also having variable bounce
    Last edited by pillionrider; 26th February 2021 at 07:08.


  21. #21
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    He is probably right, when nothing spinners like Jadeja have made a career out of these pitches.
    Now, Axar Patel, another mediocre finger spinner doing the same.

  22. #22
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    Watched the entire career of Kimble, Bhajji, Ashwin. There is no way Bhajji is anywhere close to Ashwin. Moment doosra was taken away bhajji became ineffective. I dare say he is slightly ahead of Kimble as well.

  23. #23
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    Can anyone list down all the rank turners in which all three played?

    I am sure it will be hard to list down the ones played in 90s but in 2000s, there were only 2. In 2010s, there are 6 from 2015 onwards. Not sure before that.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pillionrider View Post
    On the basis that Ashwin is a current Indian player.

    Dravid better than Sachin, Srinath a legendary pace bowler, 'Can't turn the ball' Kumble a great leggie now, even Kapil is now thrown about often
    Bhajji better than Ashwin! Lol, matlab kuch bhi!

  25. #25
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    Lol both Harbhajan and Kumble payed on more square turning pitches than Ashwin.
    Last edited by Last Monetarist; 26th February 2021 at 11:26.

  26. #26
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    Well when a debutant like Axar Patel can average 9 in his first two tests on pitches of a particular kind, I shudder to think what Kumble would have achieved if given the same conditions.

  27. #27
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    We are playing on pacers friendly pitches at home since Virat took captaincy.

    Go and check the stats, pacers are taking more wickets than before.
    Yuvi talking nonsense without knowing the stats.
    Last edited by King_Kohli; 26th February 2021 at 08:45.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    I reckon a lot of folks do that to glorify their generation of players, which in a way appreciates their own achievements without them having to talk about themselves.
    Lot of boomer talk is jealousy of increased success of newer generations. Yuvi is young in age but considers himself of the past(read pure) times. Apple and tree etc.

  29. #29
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    Even if you exclude those turners, Ashwin's stats will not hurt much. It will be around 26 only. So, in my opinion, he has gone past both Kumble and Harbhajan.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Everyone is entitled to their views.

    Out of Kumble, Bhajji and Ash...the most unluckiest of them all was Bhajji.

    Kumble had 90s Indian pitches.

    Ash had 2010s Indian pitches.

    Bhajji only had 2000s pitches which were much flatter. And by 2010, he was completely done.

    Bhajji had a peak (2001 Aus series) which Ashwin may never be able to match (was a die hard fan of Bhajji back then lol) but that dude had seriously modest returns outside India (especially post 2004).

    Issue is if Bhajji was playing today, he wouldn't wouldn't have had an international career. Or a very modest one with re-modelled action.

    If we take Yuvi's point about extrapolating a few instances into making sweeping judgements, then the likes of Kohli & Smith are undoubtedly better than Tendulkar cos they have to bat in these pitches.

    Imagine averaging 60 on these treacherous home tracks like Kohli.

    And what can we say about our Rohit who averages 80 or 90 here.
    Bhajji was never in the league of Ashwin. He got enough turners in 2000s and his most favoured mode of dismissal was caught bat pad. He hardly had the flight and guile of Ashwin, nor his spin.

    India won those matches because the batting line up read Sehwag Dravid SRT Laxman Ganguly. All very good players of spin.

    Bhajji fell off after he stopped bowling the Doosra as that waa the variation thst made his avg turning off spinner lethal.

  31. #31
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    Posters should just look at Kumble's 10 for in Delhi. The batsmen were out fending the ball after going forward to defend.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Bhajji was never in the league of Ashwin. He got enough turners in 2000s and his most favoured mode of dismissal was caught bat pad. He hardly had the flight and guile of Ashwin, nor his spin.

    India won those matches because the batting line up read Sehwag Dravid SRT Laxman Ganguly. All very good players of spin.

    Bhajji fell off after he stopped bowling the Doosra as that waa the variation thst made his avg turning off spinner lethal.
    Yeah Bhajji did get his share of turners... Not like he played on flat tracks always.

    He had superb flight but turn wasnt as good. Too often, he would resort to darting very fast. Probably due to his inability to control his flight... Or maybe due to his irrational fear of getting hit.

    You are right about our fab 5 scoring runs.

    Scoreboard pressure plays a huge role too.

    Moreover, cricket isn't a linear game.

    Just cos one player takes x wickets in one condition doesnt mean he will take 2x wickets in another condition.

    Take this series for instance.

    Ashwin took 9 wickets in the 1st game which was a hopeless flatty in the first innings...

    But in the next 2 raging turners, he could only take 8 and 7 wickets each.

    Theres a reason why 2010s Aussie pacers would average so good on the flat bouncy pattas at home but will struggle overseas (Asia).

    Had they never played in Asia, people would have concluded they would crushed it here too because they were getting wickets on dead flat tracks.

    Or they would have concluded that if Aussies are getting wickets on flat tracks, they will be invincible in English swing conditions.

    Cricket doesnt work that way.
    Last edited by sensible-indian-fan; 26th February 2021 at 10:44.

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    Ashwin is a far superior spinner to Bhajji. No comparison

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobashir View Post
    He is probably right, when nothing spinners like Jadeja have made a career out of these pitches.
    Now, Axar Patel, another mediocre finger spinner doing the same.
    Jadeja is better than any spinner Pakistan has ever produced.
    Go look at his away stats, way better than most of the pakistanis.

    Also kohli avgs 68 on these supposed rank turners and you were calling him poor against spin. LOL

    Clear the confusion in your head before posting.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proactive_ View Post
    Well when a debutant like Axar Patel can average 9 in his first two tests on pitches of a particular kind, I shudder to think what Kumble would have achieved if given the same conditions.
    And Rohit would average 150 instead of 80 odd in Kumble's era
    Dumb argument as usual.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by moghul View Post
    Both Kumble and Harbhajan were better than Ashwin , who is a also a very good bowler.
    I disagree on one count. Ashwin's overseas performances put him streets ahead of Harbajhan. He's deserving of at least equal ranking beside Kumble- who I respect greatly.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Posters should just look at Kumble's 10 for in Delhi. The batsmen were out fending the ball after going forward to defend.
    That Delhi pitch was nowhere as bad as this one. A good test pitch on Day 4 is expected to provide some spin & bounce

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    And Rohit would average 150 instead of 80 odd in Kumble's era
    Dumb argument as usual.
    He will apply context when defending his favorite players but when it comes to those he doesn't like or rate, he will be happy to play to the gallery.

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    When Azar Patel starts taking 10 fers you know something is wrong. Kohli and Shastri are sore losers and insecure. This is the most insecure No 1 team in history of test cricket

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gullycricket View Post
    This is the most insecure No 1 team in history of test cricket
    Are we no.1 as yet as per ICC test rankings? I don't think we are.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by NishanKonar View Post
    That Delhi pitch was nowhere as bad as this one. A good test pitch on Day 4 is expected to provide some spin & bounce
    Some? Please look at how the ball was spitting of the pitch. Rearing of a good length.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gullycricket View Post
    When Azar Patel starts taking 10 fers you know something is wrong. Kohli and Shastri are sore losers and insecure. This is the most insecure No 1 team in history of test cricket
    They're not even no.1 Gully bhai..

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesozoic View Post
    They're not even no.1 Gully bhai..
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    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geil View Post
    When Kumble and Harbhajan played there wasn't a Review system placed to help spinners with back pad, silly point catches, WK catches as well as LBW appeals which were usually very difficult to judge for an umpire back in those days when they knew they did not have the luxury of review system

    Comparing two different era is a very stupid thing and this make no sense especially in Cricket which is an always changing game every era
    no one is comparing any eras, Yuvi is just making a relevant point that pitch was so freaking bad that Ashwin/Patel shouldn't be given too much credit for their wickets. Rest everything is analogy, which the PPers here are taking it literally.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geil View Post
    When Kumble and Harbhajan played there wasn't a Review system placed to help spinners with back pad, silly point catches, WK catches as well as LBW appeals which were usually very difficult to judge for an umpire back in those days when they knew they did not have the luxury of review system

    Comparing two different era is a very stupid thing and this make no sense especially in Cricket which is an always changing game every era
    Indeed era comparision is hard. Now we have DRS. Back then india had umpires like jayaprakash who would give india wickets everytime kumble and co apeal for wickets ;)

    Also batsmen back then got away with using pads more than bat at times.

  46. #46
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    Ashwin is better than Harbhajan...a very good bowler.

    But it's a fact that both Ashwin and Jadeja have feasted over poor batsmen against spin and have played much more on turners as compared to Harbhajan.

    In 2000s even SENA teams played spin much better and wickets were flatter with no DRS as well.

    Also Harbhajan and his teammates played many tests against Pakistan, which spoiled his numbers a little bit......something Ashwin and Jadeja will never face.
    Last edited by Ashmal; 26th February 2021 at 12:40.

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    Not a lot of change would have happened for wrist spinners as they are bound to release pressure with lose deliveries - unless you're a Warne.

    A spinning, bouncing track is ideal for finger spinners.

  48. #48
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    Some rational comments by Yuvraj.
    Last edited by MenInG; 26th February 2021 at 13:25.


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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Some? Please look at how the ball was spitting of the pitch. Rearing of a good length.
    That's expected on a Day 4/5 pitch in the subcontinent. When team scores 300 + in 3rd innings & 200 + in 4th innings , u cannot complain about pitch

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by NishanKonar View Post
    When team scores 300 + in 3rd innings & 200 + in 4th innings , u cannot complain about pitch
    So using your criteria, can anyone complain about Adelaide pitch (cue: 36 AO) where no team crossed 200 in any of the innings?

  51. #51
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    Ashwin is a better bowler than Kumble and Harbhajan.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    So using your criteria, can anyone complain about Adelaide pitch (cue: 36 AO) where no team crossed 200 in any of the innings?
    I did not see such extravagant seam or spin or dust exploding from the pitch or ground staff dusting off the pitch at Adelaide

    Adelaide actually was a case of average batting + very good bowling. Plus India did score 244 in 1st innings ( could have scored more without those silly run outs )

    Its more like 2002 Sharjah test where Pakistan was all out for 53 & 59 - bcoz of poor batting on a decent test pitch. Or remember England getting out for 67 in 2019 - due to poor batting

  53. #53
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    True to an extent.....

  54. #54
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    Don't think Harbhajan ever really warmed up to Ashwin as he replaced him as the lead off spinner in the Indian team.

    Seems like Yuvi shares a similar opinion.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amjid Javed View Post
    Indeed era comparision is hard. Now we have DRS. Back then india had umpires like jayaprakash who would give india wickets everytime kumble and co apeal for wickets ;)

    Also batsmen back then got away with using pads more than bat at times.
    Well it's vice versa, some bowlers got easy wickets due to unpiring error and some don't but you can't pinpoint without any substantial proof that so and so bowlers of so and so country were really very lucky to get easy wickets because of umpiring error or favours or whatever that's debatable but cant be really proven

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Everyone is entitled to their views.

    Out of Kumble, Bhajji and Ash...the most unluckiest of them all was Bhajji.

    Kumble had 90s Indian pitches.

    Ash had 2010s Indian pitches.

    Bhajji only had 2000s pitches which were much flatter. And by 2010, he was completely done.

    Bhajji had a peak (2001 Aus series) which Ashwin may never be able to match (was a die hard fan of Bhajji back then lol) but that dude had seriously modest returns outside India (especially post 2004).

    Issue is if Bhajji was playing today, he wouldn't wouldn't have had an international career. Or a very modest one with re-modelled action.

    If we take Yuvi's point about extrapolating a few instances into making sweeping judgements, then the likes of Kohli & Smith are undoubtedly better than Tendulkar cos they have to bat in these pitches.

    Imagine averaging 60 on these treacherous home tracks like Kohli.

    And what can we say about our Rohit who averages 80 or 90 here.
    Don't underestimate BCCI's influence.

    As likes of Ojha/Ashwin had careers, no one would have dared calling Bhajji as well. And now with COVID+home umpires I didn't see an Indian umpire ever calling a chucker.

    Back to OP, it is a combination of things: ridiculously spin friendly tracks + lack of technique + DRS.

    In hindsight, Nadeem was unlucky, even he would have easily gotten 5fers in these tracks.

  57. #57
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    The pitch is getting overstated, it was still the batsman owndoing or mistakes.

    Had it been t20 on same pitch, these same bowlers would get smashed. The “respect” factor goes away, and so the defensive mindset isnt there. The overthinking stops...

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhenSultansBowled View Post
    Don't underestimate BCCI's influence.

    As likes of Ojha/Ashwin had careers, no one would have dared calling Bhajji as well. And now with COVID+home umpires I didn't see an Indian umpire ever calling a chucker.

    Back to OP, it is a combination of things: ridiculously spin friendly tracks + lack of technique + DRS.

    In hindsight, Nadeem was unlucky, even he would have easily gotten 5fers in these tracks.
    Must give props to you for consistently pushing the agenda that Ashwin's a chucker despite nobody in world cricket buying it, with the exception of a few patriotic Pak fans.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Kohli View Post
    Lol both Harbhajan and Kumble payed on more square turning pitches than Ashwin.
    Only those who followed cricket long enough know Kumble had the most helpful pitch for the spinners. Especially 1990s pitches.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmal View Post
    Ashwin is better than Harbhajan...a very good bowler.

    But it's a fact that both Ashwin and Jadeja have feasted over poor batsmen against spin and have played much more on turners as compared to Harbhajan.

    In 2000s even SENA teams played spin much better and wickets were flatter with no DRS as well.

    Also Harbhajan and his teammates played many tests against Pakistan, which spoiled his numbers a little bit......something Ashwin and Jadeja will never face.
    You have not seen 1990s matches then.

  61. #61
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    All said and done, Ashwin will be known as one of the best ever spinners. Whatever some obscure keyboard warriors say, doesn't matter.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    And Rohit would average 150 instead of 80 odd in Kumble's era
    Dumb argument as usual.
    Why would Rohit average 150 instead? Whats his average on flat tracks of Australia? or other countries? It would be similar to those.

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    Indian fans who are trying to deny Yuvraj claims by giving examples of Rohit that he is not a good player of spin and still averaging high on these pitches either have no clue or trying to hide the facts on purpose.

    Indian players remain one of the best players of spin bowling and Rohit on of the better ones.

  64. #64
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    Yuvi just being bitter. Way too much attention to this guy for the past decade for doing absolutely nothing. I dont agree that those spinners were better than the ones we have. Harbhajan bowled unbelievably in that 2001 series . Speed , accuracy and revs. He had it all. He lost it subsequently and had to rely on the odd chucked doosra . Kumble was not that good either and I'm a huge jumbo fan. Our bowlers have gotten better and the spin playing abilities of batsmen the world over have gotten better. This is just rose-tinted nostalgia by a has-been. Nothing more.


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnaveen1980 View Post
    You have not seen 1990s matches then.
    I was talking about Harbhajan who played most of his cricket in 2000s when the pitches were much flatter with no DRS and even the SENA teams had some good players of spin

    Ashwin is still better than Harbhajan but not as good as his stats show

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmal View Post
    I was talking about Harbhajan who played most of his cricket in 2000s when the pitches were much flatter with no DRS and even the SENA teams had some good players of spin

    Ashwin is still better than Harbhajan but not as good as his stats show
    If Harbhajan was playing now then he most likely wouldn’t have been allowed to bowl

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    If Harbhajan was playing now then he most likely wouldn’t have been allowed to bowl
    Probably.....but there's a good chance that as usual ICC wouldn't have messed with BCCI

    Harbhajan has played the IPL as recently as 2019 without any issues while Narine was called.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmal View Post
    I was talking about Harbhajan who played most of his cricket in 2000s when the pitches were much flatter with no DRS and even the SENA teams had some good players of spin

    Ashwin is still better than Harbhajan but not as good as his stats show
    Bhajji averages 39 outside India if i am not wrong.

    He played one test on Aus in 2003 series and was dropped for Kumble cos he was going at nearly 5 rpo both innings.

    Compare that to a young Ash who bowled in far harder pitches in aus with almost non existent pace attack (which went at 4 rpo) and still held his own.

    Overall bhajji played a few tests in Aus and averaged 73.

    Had he played on the early to mid 2010 dead tracks in Aus, it would have been a massacre.

    He barely did anything in England, SA, SL and Pakistan.

    He had a great 7fer in SA but i dont remember any other performances but i am sure i might have missed out a few.

    Bhajji was pretty average post 2004 everywhere.

    Talking about pitches and bhajji is a waste of time.

    Pure nostalgia and nothing else.

    Kumble is another matter altogether.

  69. #69
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    It was a pathetic performance by England and they fully deserve it. This is what happens when you disrespect the game and not put forward your best XI and instead send your matchwinners (bairstow and buttler) on a break/rest. This rotation 'policy' has sealed their fate, hope they get smashed in the 4rth test.


    John 3:16

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    Yuvi just being bitter. Way too much attention to this guy for the past decade for doing absolutely nothing. I dont agree that those spinners were better than the ones we have. Harbhajan bowled unbelievably in that 2001 series . Speed , accuracy and revs. He had it all. He lost it subsequently and had to rely on the odd chucked doosra . Kumble was not that good either and I'm a huge jumbo fan. Our bowlers have gotten better and the spin playing abilities of batsmen the world over have gotten better. This is just rose-tinted nostalgia by a has-been. Nothing more.
    Yeah, Yuvraj and Bhajji are acting most unsportsman like from that generation of Indian cricketers.

    For instance take the case of Zaheer. He was torchbearer of our fast bowling in '00s and yet he doesn't attack Lambu and Bumrah for benefitting for getting to bowl on bowlers' friendly pitches and against clueless batsmen of today.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    And Rohit would average 150 instead of 80 odd in Kumble's era
    Dumb argument as usual.
    What about Root's 5fer? How often do you see that? Or is it a lucky 5fer like Pandya got in England last time?

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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Bhajji averages 39 outside India if i am not wrong.

    He played one test on Aus in 2003 series and was dropped for Kumble cos he was going at nearly 5 rpo both innings.

    Compare that to a young Ash who bowled in far harder pitches in aus with almost non existent pace attack (which went at 4 rpo) and still held his own.

    Overall bhajji played a few tests in Aus and averaged 73.

    Had he played on the early to mid 2010 dead tracks in Aus, it would have been a massacre.

    He barely did anything in England, SA, SL and Pakistan.

    He had a great 7fer in SA but i dont remember any other performances but i am sure i might have missed out a few.

    Bhajji was pretty average post 2004 everywhere.

    Talking about pitches and bhajji is a waste of time.

    Pure nostalgia and nothing else.

    Kumble is another matter altogether.
    Bro....I've already admitted that Ashwin is a very good bowler and better than Harbhajan.

    All I am saying that the gap between them is not as big as their stats show.

    Ashwin has played in an era where pitches have been more friendly, DRS advantage and the level of batting against spin is at its lowest.....and he has also not played against Pakistan who should have given him a better challenge (Harbhajan's figures suffered quite a bit by playing on those dead pitches in Pak)

    It's not Ashwin's fault but we should keep the above factors in mind while looking at their stats.

  74. #74
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    Top 5 Indian test spinners in 50 years of history:-

    1. Ravichandran Ashwin
    2. Anil Kumble
    3. Bishan Singh Bedi
    4. Bhagwat Chandrasekhar
    5. Ravindra Jadeja

    Don't rate Harbhajan as he and Murali both were chuckers.


  75. #75
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    I will always choose a clean action bowler over a controversial action bowler if they are head to head. So for me Ashwin > Bhajji. I want to see him as a test captain also.

    As far as Axar Patel is concerned, I will take this performance with a bori of salt. Root got a 5fer on the same pitch. .

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    Ha! Ashwin bring a 'shaana' here. Props to him for continuous successof his whole "elite honest persona" marketing campaign.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    Yeah, Yuvraj and Bhajji are acting most unsportsman like from that generation of Indian cricketers.

    For instance take the case of Zaheer. He was torchbearer of our fast bowling in '00s and yet he doesn't attack Lambu and Bumrah for benefitting for getting to bowl on bowlers' friendly pitches and against clueless batsmen of today.
    Always had a huge man crush on Zaheer while growing up lol. Man used to have a charisma and I used to copy his bowling action (and for some reason, Sami from Pakistan) in street cricket. It's another thing I bowled mostly pies though, never mind!

    Zak is the perfect example of an ex Indian cricketer who hasn't embarrassed himself with petty comments on the present day Indian cricketers like a few of his colleagues have done. Ditto with Kumble, Laxman, etc.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Bhajji averages 39 outside India if i am not wrong.

    He played one test on Aus in 2003 series and was dropped for Kumble cos he was going at nearly 5 rpo both innings.

    Compare that to a young Ash who bowled in far harder pitches in aus with almost non existent pace attack (which went at 4 rpo) and still held his own.

    Overall bhajji played a few tests in Aus and averaged 73.

    Had he played on the early to mid 2010 dead tracks in Aus, it would have been a massacre.

    He barely did anything in England, SA, SL and Pakistan.

    He had a great 7fer in SA but i dont remember any other performances but i am sure i might have missed out a few.

    Bhajji was pretty average post 2004 everywhere.

    Talking about pitches and bhajji is a waste of time.

    Pure nostalgia and nothing else.

    Kumble is another matter altogether.
    Can you list down the rank turners or the ones that you have memory of 1990s in which Kumble played?

    In 90s, Kumble averaged 21 at home and 38 away.

    In 00s, Kumble averaged 27 at home and 34 away.

    But these stats also include Pakistan and Sri Lanka. I recall that Sri Lankan wicket was pretty flat in 1997 though and same for Pakistan in mid 2000s.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    Always had a huge man crush on Zaheer while growing up lol. Man used to have a charisma and I used to copy his bowling action (and for some reason, Sami from Pakistan) in street cricket. It's another thing I bowled mostly pies though, never mind!

    Zak is the perfect example of an ex Indian cricketer who hasn't embarrassed himself with petty comments on the present day Indian cricketers like a few of his colleagues have done. Ditto with Kumble, Laxman, etc.
    Kumble praised Ashwin for his 400 wickets achievement.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmal View Post
    Bro....I've already admitted that Ashwin is a very good bowler and better than Harbhajan.

    All I am saying that the gap between them is not as big as their stats show.

    Ashwin has played in an era where pitches have been more friendly, DRS advantage and the level of batting against spin is at its lowest.....and he has also not played against Pakistan who should have given him a better challenge (Harbhajan's figures suffered quite a bit by playing on those dead pitches in Pak)

    It's not Ashwin's fault but we should keep the above factors in mind while looking at their stats.
    I know mate.

    I am saying the gap is quite big even with the above factors.

    Hence I gave you a direct comparison of young Ash vs young bhajji in Aus.

    To put it in perspective, young Ash had to face ridicule for years cos he averaged 50 in Aus (where he was the highest wicket taker for india in 2014) when someone like kumble averaged 60 in 90s and swann averaged 40 even during bumper 2010 series.

    When his contemporaries toured there, their careers got derailed.

    Bhajjis numbers would have been better if he played today but don't think there would have been any real comparison.

    Mind you, bhajji's figures include playing with Kumble.

    Ashwin's figures don't. And all the tough overseasgames, he didn't have jaddu bowling alongside him except at home.

    If kumble wasn't there, god knows what would have happened to bhajji.
    Last edited by sensible-indian-fan; 26th February 2021 at 20:17.


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