How to talk about finances with your spouse?

[Savak]

I have been sending my wife money from Canada to Pakistan every month since our Nikkah in 2019. I have applied to sponsor her but because of Covid, our sponsorship and PR application has been delayed. She has never ever spent any of the money i sent her in the last year and a half, i always encouraged her that its our money and that if she ever needs to spend it for her expenses she is most welcome. She finally recently in the last 12 days started to utilize her debit card which is linked to our joint account in Pakistan.

I haven't really paid attention to her withdrawing from the ATM for Rs 5 k here or there, or spending for a meal at a restaurant, ice cream place but today she spent Rs 32 k at a grocery store which literally gave me a heart attack. I obviously felt compelled to ask her about it. I didn't ask her aggressively or raise the topic immediately. I waited while asking about her day, how she was doing and 15-20 minutes i decided to ease in to the conversation and asked her what did you spend Rs 32k on at a grocery stroke, that also with a few smilies. I didn't want to ask her in an agree or nasty condescending tone like my sister's husband does with my sister but still it was important that i have this conversation with her.

She claims she got a gift for a family member and a chocolate. I told her that its my job to provide for her and to keep her happy and then in a light hearted tone also told her to please understand the heart attack i will get if i see a charge of Rs 32k on our card. I then told her that lets reach an agreement that if either of us needs to make a major expensive purchase then we will both keep each other in the loop and seek each others consent, run it by each other.

How do you guys have this sensitive conversation with your spouses without getting too overtly emotional with your spouse or being nasty, condescending with them at the same time?

[Stewie]

I have been sending my wife money from Canada to Pakistan every month since our Nikkah in 2019. I have applied to sponsor her but because of Covid, our sponsorship and PR application has been delayed. She has never ever spent any of the money i sent her in the last year and a half, i always encouraged her that its our money and that if she ever needs to spend it for her expenses she is most welcome. She finally recently in the last 12 days started to utilize her debit card which is linked to our joint account in Pakistan.

I haven't really paid attention to her withdrawing from the ATM for Rs 5 k here or there, or spending for a meal at a restaurant, ice cream place but today she spent Rs 32 k at a grocery store which literally gave me a heart attack. I obviously felt compelled to ask her about it. I didn't ask her aggressively or raise the topic immediately. I waited while asking about her day, how she was doing and 15-20 minutes i decided to ease in to the conversation and asked her what did you spend Rs 32k on at a grocery stroke, that also with a few smilies. I didn't want to ask her in an agree or nasty condescending tone like my sister's husband does with my sister but still it was important that i have this conversation with her.

She claims she got a gift for a family member and a chocolate. I told her that its my job to provide for her and to keep her happy and then in a light hearted tone also told her to please understand the heart attack i will get if i see a charge of Rs 32k on our card. I then told her that lets reach an agreement that if either of us needs to make a major expensive purchase then we will both keep each other in the loop and seek each others consent, run it by each other.

How do you guys have this sensitive conversation with your spouses without getting too overtly emotional with your spouse or being nasty, condescending with them at the same time?

It is easier to do that when you are living together. If you are not, it becomes complicated. It would have been better if you just sent her a fixed allowance every month during this time rather than giving her a free access to the funds because unless you know each other well and have some understanding, this won’t go too well.

Most marriages fail due to financial irresponsibility or instability. And in our culture with arranged marriages, sometimes you discover such bad habits a little too late to take any action. Perhaps a candid conversation is in order. There is nothing wrong with it. If she was the earning partner and you committed the act of spending a large amount without explanation, I’m sure she would want to have the conversation with you as well.

[DeadlyVenom]

I think you handled that situation very well!

For me its slightly easier as we are both in the same country and both work. we have a joint savings account, i take care of the major expenses (mortage, bills, holidays etc) and the minor expenses ( food, supermarket) etc

Major purchases we both discuss before buying, much like you have suggested with your wife.

A major downfall in Pakistani marriages is lack of transparency over finances, especially male bravado that comes back to bite them. I think its better you spoke about it earlier than lulling your wife into a false sense of financial security that would have put you under major pressure in the future.

[Suleiman]

Be assertive without being overtly aggressive or passive.

“Hey, you did abc, I didn’t like it due to xyz reason, please don’t do this in the future” and then let her respond. Give the benefit of the doubt, maybe she was truly oblivious and wasn’t coming from a place of trying to take advantage of you. Your job is to tell her directly and have a conversation, let her respond, see where she is coming from, but if there is a boundary you have in your life, you need to verbally express it be it your wife, parent, friend etc.

Again, as long as your intent in the convo is just to express that hey this is cutting into my finances which I don’t like and not “HOW DARE SHE USE MY MONEY LIKE THAT I HAVE TO PUT HER IN HER PLACE ” nor “Oh man I hope she doesn’t think I’m a broke loser for asking her to use less money ” then there should be no issue with coming off nasty / aggressive nor a doormat.

[Savak]

My sister married a Pakistani American doctor in the US and he has been an absolute maniac with regards to monitoring his joint bank account and joint credit with her. If my sister leaves her house to get a cup of coffee from Starbucks which cost $5-7, he gets an email/text message from the bank and he sends her a message with a screenshot demanding an explanation and admonishing her for spending without his approval, thats how manical he is. He badly ruined my sisters reputation for being financially irresponsible and a prolific spender which badly puzzled us because we never ever had any such impression about her. Things got so bad that my sister had to open her own private bank account in the US, get her own private credit card and my dad has to start sending her a fixed amount every month so that she has some privacy, independence and can meet her needs, expenses without answering to her husband.

In fact me and my dad even examined their joint account statements which my sister has access for the last year and a half they have been married to determine what exactly is the guy talking about and we saw that she spent a total of $500 on herself which he was complaining about as being financially irresponsible and transactions done without his consent. We then had a frank conversation with the guys parents and even threatened divorce, a massive civil lawsuit for financial abuse if he didn't get his act together.

Things have now been more civil now and he has started to behave like an insaan ka bacha now.

Anyways i didn't want to behave or come across like this with my spouse but sigh life isn't perfect. A husband has to step in and not be scared of having an important conversation like this with his wife no matter how sensitive or touchy it is. My parents are annoyed with me and told me i should have let it go but i am like no, we i.e. husband and wife should be honest enough to talk about this and be clear from the onset.

[Savak]

Be assertive without being overtly aggressive or passive.

“Hey, you did abc, I didn’t like it due to xyz reason, please don’t do this in the future” and then let her respond. Give the benefit of the doubt, maybe she was truly oblivious and wasn’t coming from a place of trying to take advantage of you. Your job is to tell her directly and have a conversation, let her respond, see where she is coming from, but if there is a boundary you have in your life, you need to verbally express it be it your wife, parent, friend etc.

Again, as long as your intent in the convo is just to express that hey this is cutting into my finances which I don’t like and not “HOW DARE SHE USE MY MONEY LIKE THAT I HAVE TO PUT HER IN HER PLACE ” nor “Oh man I hope she doesn’t think I’m a broke loser for asking her to use less money ” then there should be no issue with coming off nasty / aggressive nor a doormat.

Its AH not cutting majorly into my finances but she is only 20 and is right leading a very carefree lifestyle without any responsibilities. She is very close to her nanyals, she has been staying with them for the last 4 months and they have literally been having a ball daily for the last 4 months in terms of going shopping, eating out daily in the morning, night, going to adventure parks e.t.c. These things cost money to sustain. Lol i am pretty sure if she spent Rs 32 k of her dad's money without giving him prior notice or getting his consent, he is going to angrily call her demanding an explanation immediately.

Better to lay down some discipline, rules now rather than let it fester into an unnecessary problem.

[Savak]

It is easier to do that when you are living together. If you are not, it becomes complicated. It would have been better if you just sent her a fixed allowance every month during this time rather than giving her a free access to the funds because unless you know each other well and have some understanding, this won’t go too well.

Most marriages fail due to financial irresponsibility or instability. And in our culture with arranged marriages, sometimes you discover such bad habits a little too late to take any action. Perhaps a candid conversation is in order. There is nothing wrong with it. If she was the earning partner and you committed the act of spending a large amount without explanation, I’m sure she would want to have the conversation with you as well.

We have to have a joint bank account in Pakistan to show to the immigration authorities if they ask for proof that you are financially supporting her, is she utilizing the funds, do you have a bank account listing your address e.t.c.

[sweep_shot]

I recommend advising her nicely but show that you are serious.

Financial discipline is very important.

[Stewie]

My sister married a Pakistani American doctor in the US and he has been an absolute maniac with regards to monitoring his joint bank account and joint credit with her. If my sister leaves her house to get a cup of coffee from Starbucks which cost $5-7, he gets an email/text message from the bank and he sends her a message with a screenshot demanding an explanation and admonishing her for spending without his approval, thats how manical he is. He badly ruined my sisters reputation for being financially irresponsible and a prolific spender which badly puzzled us because we never ever had any such impression about her. Things got so bad that my sister had to open her own private bank account in the US, get her own private credit card and my dad has to start sending her a fixed amount every month so that she has some privacy, independence and can meet her needs, expenses without answering to her husband.

In fact me and my dad even examined their joint account statements which my sister has access for the last year and a half they have been married to determine what exactly is the guy talking about and we saw that she spent a total of $500 on herself which he was complaining about as being financially irresponsible and transactions done without his consent. We then had a frank conversation with the guys parents and even threatened divorce, a massive civil lawsuit for financial abuse if he didn't get his act together.

Things have now been more civil now and he has started to behave like an insaan ka bacha now.

Anyways i didn't want to behave or come across like this with my spouse but sigh life isn't perfect. A husband has to step in and not be scared of having an important conversation like this with his wife no matter how sensitive or touchy it is. My parents are annoyed with me and told me i should have let it go but i am like no, we i.e. husband and wife should be honest enough to talk about this and be clear from the onset.

if both spouses work, best way is to keep personal finances separate and a joint account to equally share all the expenses, savings, whatnot. It keeps things uncomplicated and easier to manage. In your case, I still think there is no need for your spouse to have full access to your finances where there is zero understanding. You are asking for trouble.

[Stewie]

We have to have a joint bank account in Pakistan to show to the immigration authorities if they ask for proof that you are financially supporting her, is she utilizing the funds, do you have a bank account listing your address e.t.c.

thats interesting. The US authorities did not require any such documentation from me when I got married.

I guess you handled the situation the best possible way then. There is only so much you can do in this scenario.

[Suleiman]

Its AH not cutting majorly into my finances but she is only 20 and is right leading a very carefree lifestyle without any responsibilities. She is very close to her nanyals, she has been staying with them for the last 4 months and they have literally been having a ball daily for the last 4 months in terms of going shopping, eating out daily in the morning, night, going to adventure parks e.t.c. These things cost money to sustain. Lol i am pretty sure if she spent Rs 32 k of her dad's money without giving him prior notice or getting his consent, he is going to angrily call her demanding an explanation immediately.

Better to lay down some discipline, rules now rather than let it fester into an unnecessary problem.

Yeah man, long term it is a problem. It is perfectly fine for you to tell this to her directly. No need to ease into any conversations, just be like I wanted to talk to you about something and then just say it. She’s young, and it’s not her money so she probably hasn’t seen it from your side of the story. (I’m assuming)

This goes for any other issues you have in your marriage. If it’s an issue just talk to her. Communicate. That’s like relationships 101.

[Mamoon]

Thanks to the joker PTI government and the leadership of the most incompetent PM in history, the inflation is so bad that you only need to pick up a few items from a supermarket and the bill totals up to 10k.

Keeping that in mind, 32k is not that big of a deal considering the fact that it was a one-off occasion. It is not like she is spending 32k every day.

You need to give her some space and not track her finances on day to day basis. Firstly, it is not even a good idea to have a joint account.

You need to setup a personal account for her and deposit a fix amount of money per month and not monitor how she spends that money.

If she asks for more money then you can perhaps ask her for what purpose etc.

My wife is also a doctor and she earns her money and has her own account, but I deposit a fixed amount in her account every month and I don’t care what she does with that money. I don’t see her spending lavishly so I assume that she is being responsible.

You are ranting against your brother-in-law but it won’t be long before you morph into him if this is how you are going to react after she spent 32k once in a blue moon.

Don’t think she got fooled by the smilies and your attempt to “ease into the conversation”. Everyone is aware of these old tricks.

You have now created an uncomfortable situation where she will be hesitant to spend money and will even hesitate to discuss it with you if she needs to. You should have let it slide. It is 32k, not 32 lakhs.

And if your budget and salary cannot cope with this spending then simply give her less money. You cannot give her money and then complain why she is spending it. Once you give it to her, it is her money not yours.

Also, it is important to have some perspective. You are not living together, you don’t have children. So what if she spent 32k on herself?

[Savak]

Thanks to the joker PTI government and the leadership of the most incompetent PM in history, the inflation is so bad that you only need to pick up a few items from a supermarket and the bill totals up to 10k.

Keeping that in mind, 32k is not that big of a deal considering the fact that it was a one-off occasion. It is not like she is spending 32k every day.

You need to give her some space and not track her finances on day to day basis. Firstly, it is not even a good idea to have a joint account.

You need to setup a personal account for her and deposit a fix amount of money per month and not monitor how she spends that money.

If she asks for more money then you can perhaps ask her for what purpose etc.

My wife is also a doctor and she earns her money and has her own account, but I deposit a fixed amount in her account every month and I don’t care what she does with that money. I don’t see her spending lavishly so I assume that she is being responsible.

You are ranting against your brother-in-law but it won’t be long before you morph into him if this is how you are going to react after she spent 32k once in a blue moon.

Don’t think she got fooled by the smilies and your attempt to “ease into the conversation”. Everyone is aware of these old tricks.

You have now created an uncomfortable situation where she will be hesitant to spend money and will even hesitate to discuss it with you if she needs to. You should have let it slide. It is 32k, not 32 lakhs.

And if your budget and salary cannot cope with this spending then simply give her less money. You cannot give her money and then complain why she is spending it. Once you give it to her, it is her money not yours.

Also, it is important to have some perspective. You are not living together, you don’t have children. So what if she spent 32k on herself?

Yawn at your holier than thou rant. This is not a question of budget, salary but more a question of sorting these things out immediately from the very beginning rather than ignoring it. I do not believe in burying things under the rug out of the fear of avoiding a testy situations because if ignored, things blow up really badly in the end.

We needed a joint account for immigration purposes and joint account means the funds belong to both of us. I have ignored her minor purchases but i feel i did the right thing by asking her about the purchase of Rs 32k. I would myself think twice about spending that much on myself.

[King-Misbah]

Thanks to the joker PTI government and the leadership of the most incompetent PM in history, the inflation is so bad that you only need to pick up a few items from a supermarket and the bill totals up to 10k.

Keeping that in mind, 32k is not that big of a deal considering the fact that it was a one-off occasion. It is not like she is spending 32k every day.

You need to give her some space and not track her finances on day to day basis. Firstly, it is not even a good idea to have a joint account.

You need to setup a personal account for her and deposit a fix amount of money per month and not monitor how she spends that money.

If she asks for more money then you can perhaps ask her for what purpose etc.

My wife is also a doctor and she earns her money and has her own account, but I deposit a fixed amount in her account every month and I don’t care what she does with that money. I don’t see her spending lavishly so I assume that she is being responsible.

You are ranting against your brother-in-law but it won’t be long before you morph into him if this is how you are going to react after she spent 32k once in a blue moon.

Don’t think she got fooled by the smilies and your attempt to “ease into the conversation”. Everyone is aware of these old tricks.

You have now created an uncomfortable situation where she will be hesitant to spend money and will even hesitate to discuss it with you if she needs to. You should have let it slide. It is 32k, not 32 lakhs.

And if your budget and salary cannot cope with this spending then simply give her less money. You cannot give her money and then complain why she is spending it. Once you give it to her, it is her money not yours.

Also, it is important to have some perspective. You are not living together, you don’t have children. So what if she spent 32k on herself?

Some people get paid 32000 rupees a month so its not a small amount. Ofcourse, am talking about halal money here.

Anyways, to the OP, it is best to have a word because you do not want this habit to spiral out of control. People in Pakistan sometimes do not understand, realise that we make money with much hardship, sweat and labour #OverseasPakistani

[Mamoon]

Yawn at your holier than thou rant. This is not a question of budget, salary but more a question of sorting these things out immediately from the very beginning rather than ignoring it. I do not believe in burying things under the rug out of the fear of avoiding a testy situations because if ignored, things blow up really badly in the end.

We needed a joint account for immigration purposes and joint account means the funds belong to both of us. I have ignored her minor purchases but i feel i did the right thing by asking her about the purchase of Rs 32k. I would myself think twice about spending that much on myself.

“Ignored her minor purchases”

Um what? What is the point of even mentioning it?

Do you think it is sensible to call her up and ask her why she withdrew 5k from the ATM or went to a restaurant? This is ridiculous.

There is nothing to bury under the rug. She spent 32k, she didn’t buy property for God’s sake.

She is 19 and cannot spent 32k once in a blue moon without her husband nosing in. Have your tried putting yourself in her shoes?

Had your brother-in-law done the same, you would be ranting at him. Perhaps it is time to look in the mirror.

You also need to consider that it might be difficult to for her to ask her parents for money because she is married now. Her parents should still be taking care of her finances but they might be assuming that her husband is taking care of her needs and wants, but the husband is getting anxious his wife spending 32k.

If you don’t mend your way these things will blow up and create problems for her in the future. Get her a personal account and deposit a fix amount of money in her account every month so that she can spend her own money without worrying about her husband putting her to trial every time she spends money.

It is good for your and her mental peace and also your marriage. Give her 1 lac or 2 lac or whatever you can afford per month and consider that a sunk cost and not part of your savings. It is not that hard.

[Mamoon]

Some people get paid 32000 rupees a month so its not a small amount. Ofcourse, am talking about halal money here.

Anyways, to the OP, it is best to have a word because you do not want this habit to spiral out of control. People in Pakistan sometimes do not understand, realise that we make money with much hardship, sweat and labour #OverseasPakistani

It doesn’t matter if you get paid 32 rupees or 3 billion a month. The point is that you give your wife whatever you can afford, i.e. within your means.

Once you give her money to spend, you need to keep your nose out of it because it will only create problems and misunderstandings.

If you are so distrustful and insecure that you need to monitor her day-to-day expenses, then perhaps you should not get married in the first place.

Overseas Pakistanis make a lot of money as well. They earn in dollars and pounds and that is why they are happy where they are and make a million excuses when you ask them why they don’t return to Pakistan if they love their homeland so much.

[Itachi]

Just tell her, "you can spend as much as you want depending upon the situation but just gives me a heads up beforehand because I'll have to manage the budget accordingly for the month (even if you don't need to, tell her that)"

In this way, she won't feel restricted yet, she will kinda agree to tell you before spending.

Next time if same incident occurs, you can be serious about stating you aren't upset because she spent but because she didn't tell you beforehand as you have requested for.

In case she does ask for a big amount beforehand, you can make any excuses showing why it'll be a bad idea to send so much on that purpose.

Win win situation either way.

[King-Misbah]

It doesn’t matter if you get paid 32 rupees or 3 billion a month. The point is that you give your wife whatever you can afford, i.e. within your means.

Once you give her money to spend, you need to keep your nose out of it because it will only create problems and misunderstandings.

If you are so distrustful and insecure that you need to monitor her day-to-day expenses, then perhaps you should not get married in the first place.

Overseas Pakistanis make a lot of money as well. They earn in dollars and pounds and that is why they are happy where they are and make a million excuses when you ask them why they don’t return to Pakistan if they love their homeland so much.

Well quite evidently you think it's only 32000 rupees. Why are you retracting now? Funny how I know more about Pakistan then you do.

Spouses have a dual duty to spend wisely and build for their future and for the rainy day. If my wife spends extravagantly on herself, I would also think its careless and immature. A man is not an ATM machine.

What would you know about being bought up in a middle class family? Your experiences differ from most Pakistanis so your opinion is not accurate. We work hard for our money, we value it. We do not wish irresponsible behaviour.

You do realise that we earn in dollars, pounds but our costs are also in the same currency? Do you know how much taxes we pay? Do you know what the inflation is like in the UK? Lets come to property prices etc You have no clue so stop comparing apples & oranges. Ps: I am moving to Pakistan soon so quit that rant.

[King-Misbah]

Just tell her, "you can spend as much as you want depending upon the situation but just gives me a heads up beforehand because I'll have to manage the budget accordingly for the month (even if you don't need to, tell her that)"

In this way, she won't feel restricted yet, she will kinda agree to tell you before spending.

Next time if same incident occurs, you can be serious about stating you aren't upset because she spent but because she didn't tell you beforehand as you have requested for.

In case she does ask for a big amount beforehand, you can make any excuses showing why it'll be a bad idea to send so much on that purpose.

Win win situation either way.

Please do not follow this advice unless you want to end up bankrupt and walked over. Its not a great idea taking advice of nerdy men who have had limited interaction with women.

I am sure OP doesn't spend as much as he wants and budgets. His spouse also needs to do the same. A marriage is a partnership.

[shaz619]

You handled this fairly well, it is much easier to make decisions on this topic when living together. In terms of how to approach it I feel that you should be open but at the same time account for your own responsibilities / personal rainy day, but I leave it to you to decide if sharing that aspect is wise

[Itachi]

Please do not follow this advice unless you want to end up bankrupt and walked over. Its not a great idea taking advice of nerdy men who have had limited interaction with women.

I am sure OP doesn't spend as much as he wants and budgets. His spouse also needs to do the same. A marriage is a partnership.

A marriage is never a partnership. It's a give and take depending upon the situation.

If you make it a partnership, one or both will suffer in the long run though it may not be seemed apparently.

This is a horrible advice.

[Savak]

“Ignored her minor purchases”

Um what? What is the point of even mentioning it?

Do you think it is sensible to call her up and ask her why she withdrew 5k from the ATM or went to a restaurant? This is ridiculous.

There is nothing to bury under the rug. She spent 32k, she didn’t buy property for God’s sake.

She is 19 and cannot spent 32k once in a blue moon without her husband nosing in. Have your tried putting yourself in her shoes?

Had your brother-in-law done the same, you would be ranting at him. Perhaps it is time to look in the mirror.

You also need to consider that it might be difficult to for her to ask her parents for money because she is married now. Her parents should still be taking care of her finances but they might be assuming that her husband is taking care of her needs and wants, but the husband is getting anxious his wife spending 32k.

If you don’t mend your way these things will blow up and create problems for her in the future. Get her a personal account and deposit a fix amount of money in her account every month so that she can spend her own money without worrying about her husband putting her to trial every time she spends money.

It is good for your and her mental peace and also your marriage. Give her 1 lac or 2 lac or whatever you can afford per month and consider that a sunk cost and not part of your savings. It is not that hard.

There is a difference, my BIL does this for a $4-7 coffee purchase. I in contrast am guiding my wife and trying to teach her the importance of being mindful of extravagent purchases. This is not about affordability, my dad earns 20-30 times more than me but even he was concerned about finding about a Rs 32k purchase without intimation, discussion. My mother herself was a full fledged working woman with a very sizeable earning stream of her own, but she used to run major purchases by my dad as a habit and even invited him to accompany her for shopping so both could take decisions together.

Like someone mentioned, how would she feel if she was the earning spouse and i was going around spending large sums of money without explanation or consultation.

[ExpressPacer]

I think Mamoon has a point. 32k really is not that much when you account for the level of inflation that Pakistan is going through. If you start tracking your wife's daily spending, you're only going to lead to the two of you becoming more distant and awkward.

The relationship between a husband and a wife is not an ordinary one. You cannot treat this like a friendship you would have with a mate or even your relationship with a girlfriend. If your wife feels like she's going to be questioned for spending a bit of money once in a blue moon, her level of comfort with you is going to decrease. In the long run, that's going to lead to years of quarrelling and fighting. This is a young marriage still and you don't want that.

That being said, if she starts spending 32k or more every single day, you may discuss your financial situation with her and talk about how to better manage spending.

[ExpressPacer]

There is a difference, my BIL does this for a $4-7 coffee purchase. I in contrast am guiding my wife and trying to teach her the importance of being mindful of extravagent purchases. This is not about affordability, my dad earns 20-30 times more than me but even he was concerned about finding about a Rs 32k purchase without intimation, discussion. My mother herself was a full fledged working woman with a very sizeable earning stream of her own, but she used to run major purchases by my dad as a habit and even invited him to accompany her for shopping so both could take decisions together.

Like someone mentioned, how would she feel if she was the earning spouse and i was going around spending large sums of money without explanation or consultation.

Bro - you should definitely NOT be discussing how your wife spends your money with your parents even if she's gone off and bought a 2 lac rupees iPhone without your "permission". Even in that case, you should directly discuss it with her and not your parents.

And honestly, what does 32k even get in Pakistan these days? For context's sake, you cannot even get a second tier Samsung phone.

[King-Misbah]

I think Mamoon has a point. 32k really is not that much when you account for the level of inflation that Pakistan is going through. If you start tracking your wife's daily spending, you're only going to lead to the two of you becoming more distant and awkward.

The relationship between a husband and a wife is not an ordinary one. You cannot treat this like a friendship you would have with a mate or even your relationship with a girlfriend. If your wife feels like she's going to be questioned for spending a bit of money once in a blue moon, her level of comfort with you is going to decrease. In the long run, that's going to lead to years of quarrelling and fighting. This is a young marriage still and you don't want that.

That being said, if she starts spending 32k or more every single day, you may discuss your financial situation with her and talk about how to better manage spending.

No, he does not have a point. 32000 PKR is a lot of money as I was in Pakistan very recently. I payed around 5000 PKR for designer salwaar kameez, my meals were always between 200-700 rps. There is not as much inflation as some people in this thread are claiming to be. Come to the UK, to see real inflation.

To conclude, from the start you can set expectations. Later on, it will be too late so its ideal for you both to get into good habits now.

[King-Misbah]

A marriage is never a partnership. It's a give and take depending upon the situation.

If you make it a partnership, one or both will suffer in the long run though it may not be seemed apparently.

This is a horrible advice.

So marriage is not a partnership and one/both individual should act wreckless. Amazing advice!

[Savak]

I think Mamoon has a point. 32k really is not that much when you account for the level of inflation that Pakistan is going through. If you start tracking your wife's daily spending, you're only going to lead to the two of you becoming more distant and awkward.

The relationship between a husband and a wife is not an ordinary one. You cannot treat this like a friendship you would have with a mate or even your relationship with a girlfriend. If your wife feels like she's going to be questioned for spending a bit of money once in a blue moon, her level of comfort with you is going to decrease. In the long run, that's going to lead to years of quarrelling and fighting. This is a young marriage still and you don't want that.

That being said, if she starts spending 32k or more every single day, you may discuss your financial situation with her and talk about how to better manage spending.

My parents would question me very aggressively me if they saw i spent Rs 32k on myself. My wife sent me her personal bank account statement as part of the visa application, i saw for myself that she never spends more than Rs 3-5k at one time and this Rs 32k was an anomaly which i politely queried her on and then i used this opportunity to have that conversation with her about both of us agreeing to be transparant and running things by each other on major purchases.

If she was the earning spouse and i was spending our money on big items without consent or explanation, i am very certain she will have the talk with me. Yes, i knew the risk of her level of comfort with me could go down after this discussion which is why i didn't angrily nor frantically have this talk with her. Trust me i am a very non-confrontational guy but if i don't have this kind of a discussion with my spouse now then when?

[Savak]

I was in Pakistan recently in Nov Dec 2020. I had access to 7 figures amount of money. I was searching for high quality shoes in Karachi and i was shocked to see that every major store in Defence and Clifton i went to in Karachi quoted no less than Rs 20-25k. My friend who accompanied me was like just buy it and get it over with so that we can utilize our time for other things but i refused and was like i will spend some time, energy, effort and do some khuari but i am not spending that kind of money on shoes especially when i know i can get good quality shoes for a reasonable price.

So we did a bit of khuari and travelling and explored shops in Saddar, Tariq Road and i managed to find some really good quality shoes and i ended up getting 3 different pairs of shoes under Rs 20k which was more acceptable. This is what my parents have taught me and expect for me.

I agree with Mamoon that inflation in Pakistan right now is at an all time high and living in Pakistan on a Pakistani monthly salary even if you are making high six figures is very tough now. I myself saw the inflation. It costs Rs 100,000 a month to meet the expenses of an abandoned house in Defence with just a caretaker, utility bills and taxes to pay so you can imagine how much it would cost when people in the house are actually living in it.

[ExpressPacer]

No, he does not have a point. 32000 PKR is a lot of money as I was in Pakistan very recently. I payed around 5000 PKR for designer salwaar kameez, my meals were always between 200-700 rps. There is not as much inflation as some people in this thread are claiming to be. Come to the UK, to see real inflation.

To conclude, from the start you can set expectations. Later on, it will be too late so its ideal for you both to get into good habits now.

You cannot get an idea of how expensive or cheap a country is by being there on holiday. Similarly, you cannot account for inflation merely by accounting for what your "designer" shalwar kameez and few meals cost you. One of Pakistan's major exports is textile related products, therefore, it is unsurprising that you were able to buy Shalwaar Kameez for 5k. If economists started using the cost of shalwar kameez as a metric for inflation, countries such as New Zealand where the garment is hard to find would probably be considered to be in hyperinflation.

If you want to account for Pakistan's inflation, visit the grocery store. Also, I don't know what restaurants you've been eating at where you got food for less than 700 because any and every decent restaurant in Islamabad and Lahore charges 700-1500 on average for one meal. I am not accounting for street food. You can find $1 meals in Sydney if you want.

[ExpressPacer]

My parents would question me very aggressively me if they saw i spent Rs 32k on myself. My wife sent me her personal bank account statement as part of the visa application, i saw for myself that she never spends more than Rs 3-5k at one time and this Rs 32k was an anomaly which i politely queried her on and then i used this opportunity to have that conversation with her about both of us agreeing to be transparant and running things by each other on major purchases.

If she was the earning spouse and i was spending our money on big items without consent or explanation, i am very certain she will have the talk with me. Yes, i knew the risk of her level of comfort with me could go down after this discussion which is why i didn't angrily nor frantically have this talk with her. Trust me i am a very non-confrontational guy but if i don't have this kind of a discussion with my spouse now then when?

Yeah, I totally understand that. I think you've done the right thing here but its a very fine line. If once in a blue moon she does spend over 10k, I think you shouldn't question it. The thing is, I sympathise with you for being the only working partner. However, I also cannot help but sympathise with her who may feel like she has to give answers to people (you, potentially your parents) for spending money whenever she has to.

I'm sure you understanding where I'm coming from?

[Savak]

Let me also clarify that the gift she claims she got was for her cousin on her birthday i.e. a hair straightener, dryer, set from the Grocery store.

[Savak]

Yeah, I totally understand that. I think you've done the right thing here but its a very fine line. If once in a blue moon she does spend over 10k, I think you shouldn't question it. The thing is, I sympathise with you for being the only working partner. However, I also cannot help but sympathise with her who may feel like she has to give answers to people (you, potentially your parents) for spending money whenever she has to.

I'm sure you understanding where I'm coming from?

Well my phupo was jobless in Canada for 20 years. My phupa was the earning spouse and he has done well for himself but even though she is a mature, 50 plus year old woman, even she has to run spending decisions by him and i have personally seen her call him up on his phone asking for permission to buy groceries, fill up the gas tank and trying to explain why to him.

I personally didn't like it and i sympathized with her plight. Its very easy to lavishly spend money when you keep getting lots of it and when you don't earn it. I myself in my teens and 20's have been a bit guility of spending more than i should have but you learn as you go through the hardships of professional life in accounting firms where they grind you and the pressures you face to earn each and every cent and why you should value it.

I would rather have this conversation with her now very early in our relationship rather than ignoring it, keeping it under the rug and only to erupt later on when things should have been tackled early on. My dad gave my mom all the freedom to spend her own money, his money but occasionally i have seen him erupt on her when she made a very lavish purchase without his consent and i have seen him suppress his feelings, frustrations when she spent excessively and he didn't want to create or start a fight

[Mamoon]

Well quite evidently you think it's only 32000 rupees. Why are you retracting now? Funny how I know more about Pakistan then you do.

Retract what? You know nothing about Pakistan. You are an overseas Pakistani who spends like two weeks in the country after 5-6 years and thinks you know the country.

You have no idea who expensive it is to live in Pakistan at the moment thanks to the incompetent leadership of the incumbent government.

Spouses have a dual duty to spend wisely and build for their future and for the rainy day. If my wife spends extravagantly on herself, I would also think its careless and immature. A man is not an ATM machine.

Spending 32k once in a blue moon is not extravagant spending. You don’t know expensive it is to live in Pakistan these days, hence my assessment about you and other overseas Pakistanis.

What would you know about being bought up in a middle class family? Your experiences differ from most Pakistanis so your opinion is not accurate. We work hard for our money, we value it. We do not wish irresponsible behaviour.

It doesn’t matter what class I belong to. I am born and brought up in Pakistan and I am aware of the struggles of the common people here, and how much their struggles have compounded over the last couple of years due to the unprecedented inflation of Naya Pakistan.

Spending 32k once in a blue moon is not “irresponsible behavior”. Moreover, the OP is not middle class either. Both his parents are doctors and he is an accountant, and his parents have worked in the west for years. By all accounts, he is loaded.

Moreover, regardless of what class you belong to, you give money to your wife relative to how much you can afford. It could be 10 lacs or 10k. It does not matter.

The point is that once you give her money, you should not be intrusive because it will lead to problems and trust issues.

As far as savings are concerned, that is different from the money that you give your wife to spend on her needs and wants. If she ploughs through your savings, then you have the right to question her how she’s spending the money.

In this case, she is not even living with him and they don’t have children and other shared responsibilities at this point, and he is holding her to trial for spending 32k once in a blue moon when he has already admitted that she doesn't normally spend money. Do you not see anything wrong with this behavior?

You do realise that we earn in dollars, pounds but our costs are also in the same currency? Do you know how much taxes we pay? Do you know what the inflation is like in the UK? Lets come to property prices etc You have no clue so stop comparing apples & oranges. Ps: I am moving to Pakistan soon so quit that rant.

In spite of all the expenses and cost of living, there is a reason why overseas Pakistanis are not moving back in herds. It is because in spite of their higher cost of living, they are able to save more money in the west then they would in Pakistan.

Before 2018, they would make the lame excuse that the leadership in Pakistan is corrupt so we are not coming back. However, now that they have the so-called honest leadership of their choice, they are still making excuses.

Why do you think the OP is away from his wife for two years and has no plans of resettling in Pakistan? The reason can be summed up in two words: Canadian dollars.

People like you who do move back eventually only do so when they have saved up enough pounds and dollars to live a comfortable live in Pakistan, so you are doing any favors on anyone.

You are only looking after your own interests and are only willing to come back to Pakistan when you have the safety blanket of a foreign passport so that if things go south in Pakistan, you can pack your bags and leave, while the real Pakistanis, i.e. the single passport holders in Pakistan, will have to bear the brunt.

[Mamoon]

Let me also clarify that the gift she claims she got was for her cousin on her birthday i.e. a hair straightener, dryer, set from the Grocery store.

Or she could have bought all that herself, but she had to make up the gift excuse because she realized that you got freaked out at the thought of her spending 32k once in a blue moon.

[Mamoon]

There is a difference, my BIL does this for a $4-7 coffee purchase. I in contrast am guiding my wife and trying to teach her the importance of being mindful of extravagent purchases. This is not about affordability, my dad earns 20-30 times more than me but even he was concerned about finding about a Rs 32k purchase without intimation, discussion. My mother herself was a full fledged working woman with a very sizeable earning stream of her own, but she used to run major purchases by my dad as a habit and even invited him to accompany her for shopping so both could take decisions together.

Like someone mentioned, how would she feel if she was the earning spouse and i was going around spending large sums of money without explanation or consultation.

Firstly, every person is different. Stop trying too look for your mother in your wife, because she is not her. Secondly, it works the other way around as well. She should not compare you to her father or any man she idolized.

Secondly, you also need to understand the context. Was your mother 19 and living with her parents away from your father? Probably not, so running major purchases by your dad whilst living in the same house is not the same as living with her parents away from your dad.

Your dad finds it strange that her daughter-in-law spent 32k but I bet he wouldn’t find it strange if her own daughter would do the same. Now before you say that she only spends $7 and not $200 (which is probably not true but anyway), what is the cut-off amount?

You and your family have double-standards which you justify with lame excuses and self-convenient yardsticks.

If you don’t mend your ways you will have marital problems as well. Your sister has marriage issues and you are walking down the same path, so perhaps it is time for some introspection as well.

[CricketCartoons]

Feel sorry for her.

[Itachi]

So marriage is not a partnership and one/both individual should act wreckless. Amazing advice!

You have Comprehension issues. I never said one or both should be wreckless.

In a partnership, you count everything equally. Regardless of the situation, you'll seek equal returns for the effort that you have put in.

Marriage isn't a business partnership proposal. At times, you'll get less than what your effort worths and at other times, it'll be more.

You seem to measure bonding/attachment with the premise of money involved. I have a different perspective. For me, money is one of the important factors but not the most important one.

[Itachi]

Firstly, every person is different. Stop trying too look for your mother in your wife, because she is not her. Secondly, it works the other way around as well. She should not compare you to her father or any man she idolized.

Secondly, you also need to understand the context. Was your mother 19 and living with her parents away from your father? Probably not, so running major purchases by your dad whilst living in the same house is not the same as living with her parents away from your dad.

Your dad finds it strange that her daughter-in-law spent 32k but I bet he wouldn’t find it strange if her own daughter would do the same. Now before you say that she only spends $7 and not $200 (which is probably not true but anyway), what is the cut-off amount?

You and your family have double-standards which you justify with lame excuses and self-convenient yardsticks.

If you don’t mend your ways you will have marital problems as well. Your sister has marriage issues and you are walking down the same path, so perhaps it is time for some introspection as well.

Valid points here.

And one shouldn't discuss marriage issues with their parents. It's just recipe for disaster.

I'll never want my wife to discuss what goes inside in our house with even her mother. She can be as blunt in front me and tell everything in my face but talking to her parents about that is a big no.

[Savak]

Or she could have bought all that herself, but she had to make up the gift excuse because she realized that you got freaked out at the thought of her spending 32k once in a blue moon.

Regardless of what she spent it on or if she realized I got freaked out or not. I explained my point to her about both of us running major purchases through each other going forward. Better to do this now rather than ignore it and nip it in the bud

[Mamoon]

Regardless of what she spent it on or if she realized I got freaked out or not. I explained my point to her about both of us running major purchases through each other going forward. Better to do this now rather than ignore it and nip it in the bud

If you treat your joint account with her as your savings account you are going to run into trouble throughout your married life.

You need to set her up a personal account and deposit a fix amount of money every month which will basically be her money to spend on whatever she wants and likes.

Just because she is not working does not mean that she does not deserve to have her own running income which she will be able to spend without answering awkward questions.

[Savak]

Firstly, every person is different. Stop trying too look for your mother in your wife, because she is not her. Secondly, it works the other way around as well. She should not compare you to her father or any man she idolized.

Secondly, you also need to understand the context. Was your mother 19 and living with her parents away from your father? Probably not, so running major purchases by your dad whilst living in the same house is not the same as living with her parents away from your dad.

Your dad finds it strange that her daughter-in-law spent 32k but I bet he wouldn’t find it strange if her own daughter would do the same. Now before you say that she only spends $7 and not $200 (which is probably not true but anyway), what is the cut-off amount?

You and your family have double-standards which you justify with lame excuses and self-convenient yardsticks.

If you don’t mend your ways you will have marital problems as well. Your sister has marriage issues and you are walking down the same path, so perhaps it is time for some introspection as well.

The only one who has double standards and an arguing for the sake of arguing, being a controversy creating creature for the sake of controversy creation is you. You claim your wife is a responsible spender, you give her a fixed amount which she sticks too and if asks you for more you question her which shows you have limitations and rules as well.

And yes my father would pull my sister up big time if he saw that she spent Rs 32k without informing him.

And Yes my mother lived with her parents for a few years while being nikaofied to my dad while he was studying abroad. It didn't give my mother the license to spend recklessly

Before you lecture others to introspect, please follow the same for yourself

[Itachi]

Regardless of what she spent it on or if she realized I got freaked out or not. I explained my point to her about both of us running major purchases through each other going forward. Better to do this now rather than ignore it and nip it in the bud

Addressing should be done. It should be done in a non confronting manner.

[Mamoon]

Valid points here.

And one shouldn't discuss marriage issues with their parents. It's just recipe for disaster.

I'll never want my wife to discuss what goes inside in our house with even her mother. She can be as blunt in front me and tell everything in my face but talking to her parents about that is a big no.

Absolutely. In Pakistani households, a large number of divorces happen due to family involvement. If you leave the couples to sort things out internationally, more often than not, they will learn to comprise.

Problems happen when girls run over their parents and start complaining, and their parents look at one side of the story only and start acting out of the love that they have for their daughter.

That is now what sensible parents do - they act with pragmatism and do no reinforce the complaints of their daughter. Same goes for the husband complaining to his parents.

[Savak]

If you treat your joint account with her as your savings account you are going to run into trouble throughout your married life.

You need to set her up a personal account and deposit a fix amount of money every month which will basically be her money to spend on whatever she wants and likes.

Just because she is not working does not mean that she does not deserve to have her own running income which she will be able to spend without answering awkward questions.

She does have her own pvt account which i was sending money to her every month for the last year. We just recently opened the joint account on the advice of our immigration lawyer to run all our transactions through there to further strengthen our case to show financial support, activity and proof of a relationship

[Savak]

Addressing should be done. It should be done in a non confronting manner.

I didn't confront her. Sadly some people will not be happy with anything

[Mamoon]

The only one who has double standards and an arguing for the sake of arguing, being a controversy creating creature for the sake of controversy creation is you. You claim your wife is a responsible spender, you give her a fixed amount which she sticks too and if asks you for more you question her which shows you have limitations and rules as well.

And yes my father would pull my sister up big time if he saw that she spent Rs 32k without informing him.

And Yes my mother lived with her parents for a few years while being nikaofied to my dad while he was studying abroad. It didn't give my mother the license to spend recklessly

Before you lecture others to introspect, please follow the same for yourself

This is typical for you. You open a thread about personal problems and when someone tells you what you don’t wish to hear, you start complaining.

You clearly don’t open these threads for advice; you only open these threads so that others agree with you and reinforce your beliefs.

I don’t know if my wife is a responsible spender or not, but that is what appears from the outside. However, my point is that when I give her a fix amount per month, I don’t ask questions because that amount that I give her is for personal needs and wants and not savings.

She earns her own money as well, and if every once in a while she asks for more (she has not so far), I will probably not hold her to trial unless it starts to happen very frequently.

Of course everyone has limitations, no one has infinite income. The point I am trying to make is that your threshold is absurdly low, because spending 32k once in a blue moon in Pakistan in today’s times is not a big enough sum of money for you to freak out and start asking uncomfortable questions.

You have now created a situation where she won’t be able to withdraw 10k out of the ATM without worrying about getting questioned by her husband monitoring her finances from thousands of miles away.

That is why I will again reiterate that you need to stop suffocating her and get her a personal account so that she can use that money for her needs and wants without you getting notified. She deserves this freedom as an adult.

[Savak]

Absolutely. In Pakistani households, a large number of divorces happen due to family involvement. If you leave the couples to sort things out internationally, more often than not, they will learn to comprise.

Problems happen when girls run over their parents and start complaining, and their parents look at one side of the story only and start acting out of the love that they have for their daughter.

That is now what sensible parents do - they act with pragmatism and do no reinforce the complaints of their daughter. Same goes for the husband complaining to his parents.

There is no hard and fast rule. I know of a case where a daughter complained to her parents about her husband cheating on her and physically abusing her and mistreating her and being very unhappy. They told her that because of the society they live in, she has to suck it up and deal with it.

3 years later she was shot dead by the husband who apparently bribed the cops and they ruled it as an accident and the guy is still living freely.

Every situation is different. Sometimes parents have to intervene to guide a newly married couple to learn not to make a big deal out of minor issues and encourage them to resolve their problems themselves. Other times its best to pull the girl out before it's too late

[Mamoon]

She does have her own pvt account which i was sending money to her every month for the last year. We just recently opened the joint account on the advice of our immigration lawyer to run all our transactions through there to further strengthen our case to show financial support, activity and proof of a relationship

Well that solves half the problem. Tell her you will give deposit X amount of money per month in her personal account and stop asking questions about what she does with that money.

However, if she is still spending 30k+ from the joint account then you can discuss finances with her.

[Mamoon]

There is no hard and fast rule. I know of a case where a daughter complained to her parents about her husband cheating on her and physically abusing her and mistreating her and being very unhappy. They told her that because of the society they live in, she has to suck it up and deal with it.

3 years later she was shot dead by the husband who apparently bribed the cops and they ruled it as an accident and the guy is still living freely.

Every situation is different. Sometimes parents have to intervene to guide a newly married couple to learn not to make a big deal out of minor issues and encourage them to resolve their problems themselves. Other times its best to pull the girl out before it's too late

Of course every situation is different. However, I am not talking about extreme examples such as cheating spouse or a criminal husband. A lot of divorces happen because of minor quarrels that blow up because of family involvement.

That is why family involvement makes things worse more often than not.

[Savak]

This is typical for you. You open a thread about personal problems and when someone tells you what you don’t wish to hear, you start complaining.

You clearly don’t open these threads for advice; you only open these threads so that others agree with you and reinforce your beliefs.

I don’t know if my wife is a responsible spender or not, but that is what appears from the outside. However, my point is that when I give her a fix amount per month, I don’t ask questions because that amount that I give her is for personal needs and wants and not savings.

She earns her own money as well, and if every once in a while she asks for more (she has not so far), I will probably not hold her to trial unless it starts to happen very frequently.

Of course everyone has limitations, no one has infinite income. The point I am trying to make is that your threshold is absurdly low, because spending 32k once in a blue moon in Pakistan in today’s times is not a big enough sum of money for you to freak out and start asking uncomfortable questions.

You have now created a situation where she won’t be able to withdraw 10k out of the ATM without worrying about getting questioned by her husband monitoring her finances from thousands of miles away.

That is why I will again reiterate that you need to stop suffocating her and get her a personal account so that she can use that money for her needs and wants without you getting notified. She deserves this freedom as an adult.

And you specialize very well in telling people what they don't want to hear. I opened this thread for a debate and exchange of ideas, views which will involve agreements and disagreements, debates.

No 20 year old girl who is living with her parents, family is getting Rs 50k and sometimes Rs 100k every month and has access to a bank account of six figures. She is not being suffocated at all. She is being guided on the importance of responsible spending and on the need for both husband, wife to run major purchases on major items with each other as a good practice.

Lol at me suffocating her

[Savak]

Well that solves half the problem. Tell her you will give deposit X amount of money per month in her personal account and stop asking questions about what she does with that money.

However, if she is still spending 30k+ from the joint account then you can discuss finances with her.

The immigration lawyer advised me to stop sending her money to her pvt account and to open a joint account with her and for both of us to start utilizing it for a stronger case with the immigration authorities.

I want to trust her, give her freedom to utilize our money but also get her in the habit of being responsible. If I do as you right now, I fear she will be hurt that I am not trusting her to deal with our joint account responsibily

[ExpressPacer]

And you specialize very well in telling people what they don't want to hear. I opened this thread for a debate and exchange of ideas, views which will involve agreements and disagreements, debates.

No 20 year old girl who is living with her parents, family is getting Rs 50k and sometimes Rs 100k every month and has access to a bank account of six figures. She is not being suffocated at all. She is being guided on the importance of responsible spending and on the need for both husband, wife to run major purchases on major items with each other as a good practice.

Lol at me suffocating her

Why are you paying her family 100k a month?

[uberkoen]

She hasn't spent anything in over a year and she spends $250 from the money you give her and you question her? I don't get it. Firstly, you gave her the money to spend on whatever she likes. Secondly, its $250. I can't believe you'd get a heart attack over a measly $250

[Savak]

She hasn't spent anything in over a year and she spends $250 from the money you give her and you question her? I don't get it. Firstly, you gave her the money to spend on whatever she likes. Secondly, its $250. I can't believe you'd get a heart attack over a measly $250

What should I wait for then? For her to spend $500, $750, $1000?

Its not a lot of money for me living in Canada but it is for someone in Pakistan who is not working, living with her parents, family and with no responsibilities yet. I have to guide and counsel her to be responsible from the very beginning and not encourage her to develop bad habits

[Savak]

Why are you paying her family 100k a month?

It was her actually. Spousal support purposes

[uberkoen]

What should I wait for then? For her to spend $500, $750, $1000?

Its not a lot of money for me living in Canada but it is for someone in Pakistan who is not working, living with her parents, family and with no responsibilities yet. I have to guide and counsel her to be responsible from the very beginning and not encourage her to develop bad habits

but isn't it her money? You gave it to her to spend, no? Why question where she spends her money?

[ExpressPacer]

What should I wait for then? For her to spend $500, $750, $1000?

Its not a lot of money for me living in Canada but it is for someone in Pakistan who is not working, living with her parents, family and with no responsibilities yet. I have to guide and counsel her to be responsible from the very beginning and not encourage her to develop bad habits

Look man, all due respect, I think it is seriously problematic that you have the mindset that you need to "guide and counsel" your wife. She is your partner, not your child. She's an adult.

I have hundreds of female friends from middle-class and upper middle-class families in Pakistan who would NOT consider 34k a huge amount taking into account for the rate of inflation. It is very likely that she, along with other females from the same social class and age will cringe at the thought of their husband having to "guide" their expenses.

If you want a happy and successful marriage, please start treating her like an adult and your partner. At the moment, you sound like a father who is trying to influence his child's life.

[Savak]

but isn't it her money? You gave it to her to spend, no? Why question where she spends her money?

It's our money in our joint account. If I see a huge anomaly, I have the right to ask about it

[Thomaskutty]

Poor wife .. I feel for her.

[Savak]

Look man, all due respect, I think it is seriously problematic that you have the mindset that you need to "guide and counsel" your wife. She is your partner, not your child. She's an adult.

I have hundreds of female friends from middle-class and upper middle-class families in Pakistan who would NOT consider 34k a huge amount taking into account for the rate of inflation. It is very likely that she, along with other females from the same social class and age will cringe at the thought of their husband having to "guide" their expenses.

If you want a happy and successful marriage, please start treating her like an adult and your partner. At the moment, you sound like a father who is trying to influence his child's life.

Well based on her pvt bank account for a year which she sent me, she never ever spent a huge amount anywhere close to Rs 32k in one go ever before which shows her parents would not be okay with her spending such an amount with no good reason. She also doesn't come from an upper middle class family either. Me guiding her on the importance of spending wisely is an adult discussion and treating her like an adult.

[Shaddy86]

Well based on her pvt bank account for a year which she sent me, she never ever spent a huge amount anywhere close to Rs 32k in one go ever before which shows her parents would not be okay with her spending such an amount with no good reason. She also doesn't come from an upper middle class family either. Me guiding her on the importance of spending wisely is an adult discussion and treating her like an adult.

32K isn't a huge amount at all, when I visit Pakistan my daily spending money is more than that just on food, fuel and minor grocery. Its possible that she's never spent that much money on herself but now being married and having access to money which she doesn't spend has given her the chance to treat herself.

If I were you I wouldn't be concerned about how much she spent but what she spent it on is more important. She might have treated herself, her friends or family. She might have even done some minor grocery for the house for once. She's becoming an adult and at some point you need to start spending like an adult too. What if her family was struggling with monthly groceries and she decided to help a bit? What if she really wanted to get her mum/dad something with what she thought was her own money?

It's good that you want her to be financially responsible, in that case give her fixed amount to her personal account and let her do what she wants with it. It'll tell you already what she'd do with it. She won't spend it or spend very little and then when she really needs to get something she'd spend big. It's like saving from your pocket money to buy yourself a playstation.

[uberkoen]

It's our money in our joint account. If I see a huge anomaly, I have the right to ask about it

Why are you sending money unnecessarily to Pakistan? Also, do you not give her anything to spend on her own? Do you monitor every penny she spends?

[CricketCartoons]

Poor wife .. I feel for her.

Every post in this threat feels like increasing her humiliation. Why put her to unnecessary humiliation among random strangers?

[hoshiarpurexpress]

32K PKR is roughly 15K INR.. and in India that is close to 3 Jeans(2000 INR Each) in a Shopping mall in Bangalore/Delhi/any major metro city...1 meal at a restaurant with family/cousins(4000 approx) and may be few items for home.
If it is being spent on buying some stuff for family members.. then i would say it is not that big amount.
Things are expensive in major cities of sub-continent as well.

[Vegitto1]

If your wife will not spend your money then who will? You know we can't take it to our graves, money is meant to be spent.

[pillionrider]

If OP is honest to himself, he will probably realize the real reason why this particular spend broke his back:

It's the fun she appears to be having with her friends and family off what he regards as his money.

Maybe he's having a rough time alone or has work pressure that makes his salary seem well-earned to the last cent. And the thought of someone else having a gala time with it, isn't making him feel great, even if it's his wife. This is a recent marriage, so there will still be a disconnect and it's just two individuals bound by law at this point in time.

OP, I hope you don't think I'm insulting you or trolling.

[RajBan]

I will suggest you to encourage her to get a job. Even if she earns 30-40k that is good enough to manage personal expenses. In our generation where individuals are more independent minded, it's important both spouses are financially independent as much as they can. Big ticket purchases like a car may need help from each other and that is understandable.

Also once she is in Canada she will be able continue working and socialize well within that country. Since you and your parents are working, sitting at home is probably not going to be a great experience for her.

[Kroll]

I think guys tend to underestimate how much a woman can actually spend.

I understand there is a lot of inflation in Pakistan right now and having visited 3 years ago, its not a cheap place.

People have different attitudes and control when it comes to money and budgeting but I think OP really shouldn't fret now that he's spoken about it. I think the main concern for OP is the uncontrolled access to funds which was alerted by this 32rs k bill.

As mentioned, its probably better to send a fixed allowance each week/month rather than unhinged access if it worries OP about the spending. If the wife requires more funds, then these can be requested and discussed as appropriate.

32rs k here would work out at roughly £150. We have to split our grocery and home essentials between the meat shop/asian store and the grocers/supermarkets where we can easily total this bill. So for the wife to have spent this amount as a one off is not anything exorbitant.

It actually appears she's been very prudent and good on her. At the end of the day it was 32rs k and not 320rs k so some perspective is needed here. I'd say the situation was handled reasonably well but a finite allowance and and then not needing to track the spending can go a long way to solving this issue.

[in_cutter]

Ermmmm talk to her about it rather than discussing it on a public forum..?

[shaz619]

I think guys tend to underestimate how much a woman can actually spend.

I understand there is a lot of inflation in Pakistan right now and having visited 3 years ago, its not a cheap place.

People have different attitudes and control when it comes to money and budgeting but I think OP really shouldn't fret now that he's spoken about it. I think the main concern for OP is the uncontrolled access to funds which was alerted by this 32rs k bill.

As mentioned, its probably better to send a fixed allowance each week/month rather than unhinged access if it worries OP about the spending. If the wife requires more funds, then these can be requested and discussed as appropriate.

32rs k here would work out at roughly £150. We have to split our grocery and home essentials between the meat shop/asian store and the grocers/supermarkets where we can easily total this bill. So for the wife to have spent this amount as a one off is not anything exorbitant.

It actually appears she's been very prudent and good on her. At the end of the day it was 32rs k and not 320rs k so some perspective is needed here. I'd say the situation was handled reasonably well but a finite allowance and and then not needing to track the spending can go a long way to solving this issue.

£150 is still a lot even here in the UK I wouldn’t say its a massive amount but still a lot, sometimes its good to set a few boundaries regardless. A good partner though will not waste your money and especially if they are working themselves to but maturity is also a factor, I guess dynamics a bit different as she is away from him in another country as well

[King-Misbah]

£150 is still a lot even here in the UK I wouldn’t say its a massive amount but still a lot, sometimes its good to set a few boundaries regardless. A good partner though will not waste your money and especially if they are working themselves to but maturity is also a factor, I guess dynamics a bit different as she is away from him in another country as well

We have multi millionaires on this thread who think very little of £150/ 32000 PKR.

[shaz619]

We have multi millionaires on this thread who think very little of £150/ 32000 PKR.

Yes, I guess their level of wealth is probably different maybe come from family’s who are well off and thus have different views on spending etc in the UK that amount is like 38% of Universal Credit

[Kroll]

£150 is still a lot even here in the UK I wouldn’t say its a massive amount but still a lot, sometimes its good to set a few boundaries regardless. A good partner though will not waste your money and especially if they are working themselves to but maturity is also a factor, I guess dynamics a bit different as she is away from him in another country as well

We have multi millionaires on this thread who think very little of £150/ 32000 PKR.

I agree, its not a small amount but depends on what you're spending it on and how often.

[Slog]

No, he does not have a point. 32000 PKR is a lot of money as I was in Pakistan very recently. I payed around 5000 PKR for designer salwaar kameez, my meals were always between 200-700 rps. There is not as much inflation as some people in this thread are claiming to be. Come to the UK, to see real inflation.

To conclude, from the start you can set expectations. Later on, it will be too late so its ideal for you both to get into good habits now.

200 rupee meals. Are you having meals from roadside dhabas?

[Slog]

Savak you really need to stop putting every small aspect of your life on PP. at this point anyone who remotely knows you in real life can figure out that this is your account.

As for topic. She’s 19-20. You’re not supposed to be responsible with money at that age. Also from what I remember she is from a very conservative Pashtun household. Most likely her family members are consistently giving hints to her that this isn’t her home anymore and that her husband should take care of her financial needs. But being 19-20 she is also likely afraid of asking for ‘permission’ from someone who’s almost twice her age. So being in this tough position she probably did what she did and hoped no one noticed.

You have to cut her slack and realize she is a teenager from a very conservative family who’s likely had little interaction with members of the opposite gender, very little real life experience and now finds herself in a marriage with someone significantly older.

[ChTab]

My sister married a Pakistani American doctor in the US and he has been an absolute maniac with regards to monitoring his joint bank account and joint credit with her. If my sister leaves her house to get a cup of coffee from Starbucks which cost $5-7, he gets an email/text message from the bank and he sends her a message with a screenshot demanding an explanation and admonishing her for spending without his approval, thats how manical he is. He badly ruined my sisters reputation for being financially irresponsible and a prolific spender which badly puzzled us because we never ever had any such impression about her. Things got so bad that my sister had to open her own private bank account in the US, get her own private credit card and my dad has to start sending her a fixed amount every month so that she has some privacy, independence and can meet her needs, expenses without answering to her husband.

In fact me and my dad even examined their joint account statements which my sister has access for the last year and a half they have been married to determine what exactly is the guy talking about and we saw that she spent a total of $500 on herself which he was complaining about as being financially irresponsible and transactions done without his consent. We then had a frank conversation with the guys parents and even threatened divorce, a massive civil lawsuit for financial abuse if he didn't get his act together.

Things have now been more civil now and he has started to behave like an insaan ka bacha now.

Anyways i didn't want to behave or come across like this with my spouse but sigh life isn't perfect. A husband has to step in and not be scared of having an important conversation like this with his wife no matter how sensitive or touchy it is. My parents are annoyed with me and told me i should have let it go but i am like no, we i.e. husband and wife should be honest enough to talk about this and be clear from the onset.

That's really awful to hear, my sister kind of went through the same kind of treatment when my father arranged a marriage for her in the UK(a match I was not in favor of because the guy was 10 years elder than my sister who was 25, but I was only 19 back then & couldn't do anything about that). Her Husband was not an issue initially but he was living in the same house with her mother & her mother kept notice of everything my sister eats.

I was extremely unhappy with my father & stopped talking with him for quite a long time. Thank GOD my sister's condition is much better now as she, her husband & their kids are living alone now.

[Colorblind Genius]

I have been sending my wife money from Canada to Pakistan every month since our Nikkah in 2019. I have applied to sponsor her but because of Covid, our sponsorship and PR application has been delayed. She has never ever spent any of the money i sent her in the last year and a half, i always encouraged her that its our money and that if she ever needs to spend it for her expenses she is most welcome. She finally recently in the last 12 days started to utilize her debit card which is linked to our joint account in Pakistan.

I haven't really paid attention to her withdrawing from the ATM for Rs 5 k here or there, or spending for a meal at a restaurant, ice cream place but today she spent Rs 32 k at a grocery store which literally gave me a heart attack. I obviously felt compelled to ask her about it. I didn't ask her aggressively or raise the topic immediately. I waited while asking about her day, how she was doing and 15-20 minutes i decided to ease in to the conversation and asked her what did you spend Rs 32k on at a grocery stroke, that also with a few smilies. I didn't want to ask her in an agree or nasty condescending tone like my sister's husband does with my sister but still it was important that i have this conversation with her.

She claims she got a gift for a family member and a chocolate. I told her that its my job to provide for her and to keep her happy and then in a light hearted tone also told her to please understand the heart attack i will get if i see a charge of Rs 32k on our card. I then told her that lets reach an agreement that if either of us needs to make a major expensive purchase then we will both keep each other in the loop and seek each others consent, run it by each other.

How do you guys have this sensitive conversation with your spouses without getting too overtly emotional with your spouse or being nasty, condescending with them at the same time?

It’s her money. You gave it to her so she is at liberty to spend.
Not sure what’s the problem here?

She didn’t steal it from you.
Be a man and move on.

[kaayal]

1) “TALK” with your wife. And allow her to spend if that doesn’t break your back.

2) Never talk about your wife’s expenses with your parents. It’s a matter between you two and it should be like that only. It’s embarrassing to her tbh considering till now she was very careful while spending your money.

3) Please don’t post your personal things (especially wife) here. Someone here might know you and it’s really embarrassing for the lady (if ever she comes across this).

[Gharib Aadmi]

200 rupee meals. Are you having meals from roadside dhabas?

The best meals i had in my last visit to Karachi was at the dhabas. Bun Kabab in Nursery is 90 rupees. Cant beat that quality and price.

[Gharib Aadmi]

Some people get paid 32000 rupees a month so its not a small amount. Ofcourse, am talking about halal money here.

Anyways, to the OP, it is best to have a word because you do not want this habit to spiral out of control. People in Pakistan sometimes do not understand, realise that we make money with much hardship, sweat and labour #OverseasPakistani

Absolutely.

32,000 rupees is $200. Most people in the west dont spend that much for a "gift" for a family member and chocolate.