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View Poll Results: Is a long-term ceasefire between India and Pakistan feasible?

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  • Yes

    3 25.00%
  • No

    8 66.67%
  • Hard to say

    1 8.33%
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  1. #1
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    Is a long-term ceasefire between India and Pakistan feasible?

    Is it realistic to expect a long-term ceasefire between India and Pakistan?

  2. #2
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    No, India is a big arms buyer and has a fast growing military industrial complex, it's not in their interests for there to be longlasting peace. Also if there's peace in Kashmir then it wouldn't justify their million+ troop presence and would ruin their plans of bringing in indian settlers to change the demographics and dispossess Kashmiris of their land.

  3. #3
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    No that is not going to happen. I have full faith in BJP.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    No that is not going to happen. I have full faith in BJP.
    nice job in trying to fool pakistanis that anti pakistan stand is just a bjp thing, and otherwise india is a pakistan friendly nation.

  5. #5
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    Fire is what keeps the some major forces in Pakistan relevant. There is no ceasing of it.

  6. #6
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    Not without Kashmir .


    you really can't beat the game. If you earn anything, it's minus taxes. If you buy anything it's plus taxes.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    Fire is what keeps the some major forces in Pakistan relevant. There is no ceasing of it.
    Pakistan is what gets politicians elected in india so NO on that front as well.


    you really can't beat the game. If you earn anything, it's minus taxes. If you buy anything it's plus taxes.

  8. #8
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    Until the fundamental issues are resolved, there will always be ill-will between the 2 nations.

    I don't expect anything positive for the next 25 years atleast.

    Till then, have to sit and listen to nonsense (in varying degrees) spouted by both sides.


    Truth is treason in an empire of lies.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    No that is not going to happen. I have full faith in BJP.
    As despicable as BJP is, this issue is far bigger than them.


    Truth is treason in an empire of lies.

  10. #10
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    yes - the onus though is on Pakistan since it has been the agitator with revisionist aspirations.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    yes - the onus though is on Pakistan since it has been the agitator with revisionist aspirations.
    Firing over LOC has been initiated by India possibly hundreds of times over the years.

    We also now know India has held it's own revisionist aspirations from within Afghanistan into Pakistan, as confirmed by the captured Indian spy.

    When BJP have political issues at home, they will look to divert by firing again.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Firing over LOC has been initiated by India possibly hundreds of times over the years.

    We also now know India has held it's own revisionist aspirations from within Afghanistan into Pakistan, as confirmed by the captured Indian spy.

    When BJP have political issues at home, they will look to divert by firing again.
    As per Indian govt, Pakistan has been the initiator of all cease fire violations. There is nothing (anything?) we want from Pakistan and have no reason to violate cease fire. India does respond to CFVs and sometimes in different locations of our choice.

    All countries employ spys in other countries. If a neighboring country has decided to spend its existence in hostility, you are left with no choice but to defend and counter.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    As per Indian govt, Pakistan has been the initiator of all cease fire violations. There is nothing (anything?) we want from Pakistan and have no reason to violate cease fire. India does respond to CFVs and sometimes in different locations of our choice.

    All countries employ spys in other countries. If a neighboring country has decided to spend its existence in hostility, you are left with no choice but to defend and counter.
    What India says put to one side. You seem a smart chap. Do you honestly believe its always been Pakistan firiing first? Never India

    India does have a reason. Dont you call it POK? This means Pakistan is occuyping Indian land, not a gali or field but a large piece of prime land for 70 years. Surely India wants its land back or are you suggesting they have given up Azad Kashmir as their own?

    Not all countries send spies to support & facilitate terrorist attacks in other countries.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    What India says put to one side. You seem a smart chap. Do you honestly believe its always been Pakistan firiing first? Never India

    India does have a reason. Dont you call it POK? This means Pakistan is occuyping Indian land, not a gali or field but a large piece of prime land for 70 years. Surely India wants its land back or are you suggesting they have given up Azad Kashmir as their own?

    Not all countries send spies to support & facilitate terrorist attacks in other countries.
    If we wanted to take POK by force, we would have it by now.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    If we wanted to take POK by force, we would have it by now.
    Like taking candy off a baby?

    What is India waiting for, Pakistan to one day wake up and delcare it belongs to India?

    Btw India simply doesnt have the ability to take Kashmir.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Like taking candy off a baby?

    What is India waiting for, Pakistan to one day wake up and delcare it belongs to India?

    Btw India simply doesnt have the ability to take Kashmir.
    Well, there is no ambiguity on the result of 1971 war (surrender by Pakistan with tens of thousands of POWs). Why did India not annex it then? Call it naivety by India, but it expected to negotiate rationally with Pakistan abiding by its UN commitment. You seem to attribute it to lack of capability.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    Well, there is no ambiguity on the result of 1971 war (surrender by Pakistan with tens of thousands of POWs). Why did India not annex it then? Call it naivety by India, but it expected to negotiate rationally with Pakistan abiding by its UN commitment. You seem to attribute it to lack of capability.
    We are in 2021 now. 71 was a result of those now Bangladeshi helping India.

    Yes you do not have the capability now. Surely you can guess why not?


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  18. #18
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    Amidst Covid-19, Capitalism not strong enough to invest in war for the time being. Ceasefire will be unexpectedly for the longer duration.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    No, India is a big arms buyer and has a fast growing military industrial complex, it's not in their interests for there to be longlasting peace. Also if there's peace in Kashmir then it wouldn't justify their million+ troop presence and would ruin their plans of bringing in indian settlers to change the demographics and dispossess Kashmiris of their land.
    Same thing stands for Pakistan military-political establishment. Forget any bonhomie, with a reasonable amount of sanity between the two countries it will harm the interest of many on both sides. And ofcourse for the reasons you mentioned the biggest losers are the third party arm dealers who benefit out of this dispute.

  20. #20
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    The whole political career of IK revolves not around Pakistani people, their welfare but the agenda of kashmir. Safe to say, atleast he won't want to be resolved though he'll portray otherwise.


  21. #21
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    With the current regime of fascists and religious fanatics in power in India, it is almost impossible.

    Their entire politics is based on hate against Pakistan and malice against Muslims.

    Had there been no Pakistan and no Muslims in India, there wouldn't be any BJP.

    So it's quite obvious that if long term peace is achieved with Pakistan then BJP will need to pack it's bags, and hence they will never let it happen.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RajBan View Post
    Same thing stands for Pakistan military-political establishment. Forget any bonhomie, with a reasonable amount of sanity between the two countries it will harm the interest of many on both sides. And ofcourse for the reasons you mentioned the biggest losers are the third party arm dealers who benefit out of this dispute.
    India has a bigger military industrial complex, a bigger defense budget and economy so it has more at stake and it's in its interest to continue the conflict.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorblind Genius View Post
    With the current regime of fascists and religious fanatics in power in India, it is almost impossible.

    Their entire politics is based on hate against Pakistan and malice against Muslims.

    Had there been no Pakistan and no Muslims in India, there wouldn't be any BJP.

    So it's quite obvious that if long term peace is achieved with Pakistan then BJP will need to pack it's bags, and hence they will never let it happen.
    If you support a permanent ceasefire, you support the status quo. Status quo only suits india. For final solution, there should be a decisive war. Diplomacy is not going to bring any solution.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    If you support a permanent ceasefire, you support the status quo. Status quo only suits india. For final solution, there should be a decisive war. Diplomacy is not going to bring any solution.
    Perhaps the most idiotic solution and even worse of a logic to recommend a “decisive war” between the two nuclear armed countries to find peace.

    And mind you, Pakistan as per Modi lovers,
    is “financially poor and struggling under debt”, so it may not have a whole lot to lose if it comes to nukes which will wipe out both countries. lol you will get a truly long lasting peace.

    So be careful what you wish for.

    A more logical solution is perhaps the need of Indian public to use its voting power and bring a more sensible and mature people in power who are genuinely interested in peace.
    Pakistani nation did its part and brought PTI in power; however, Indian public has been made astray to prove their patriotism.

    You must have seen this

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=qBbpFGGAkmo

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorblind Genius View Post
    Perhaps the most idiotic solution and even worse of a logic to recommend a “decisive war” between the two nuclear armed countries to find peace.

    And mind you, Pakistan as per Modi lovers,
    is “financially poor and struggling under debt”, so it may not have a whole lot to lose if it comes to nukes which will wipe out both countries. lol you will get a truly long lasting peace.

    So be careful what you wish for.

    A more logical solution is perhaps the need of Indian public to use its voting power and bring a more sensible and mature people in power who are genuinely interested in peace.
    Pakistani nation did its part and brought PTI in power; however, Indian public has been made astray to prove their patriotism.

    You must have seen this
    It is not what I wish for (although seeing a mushroom cloud before I die will be great.) This is the only way. But you can keep wishing for your alternate director cut's endings to this saga.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    It is not what I wish for (although seeing a mushroom cloud before I die will be great.) This is the only way. But you can keep wishing for your alternate director cut's endings to this saga.
    I think you won’t be able to actually see the mushroom cloud because you will be part of it. So perhaps not so great after all.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorblind Genius View Post
    I think you won’t be able to actually see the mushroom cloud because you will be part of it. So perhaps not so great after all.
    Glad that we both agree that there will be a mushroom cloud.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    Glad that we both agree that there will be a mushroom cloud.
    I already called it an idiotic dream. You can continue to happily live in it. It doesn’t interest me.

    I would rather hope for Indian public using its voting power and bring sensible, intelligent and peaceful people in power.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    India has a bigger military industrial complex, a bigger defense budget and economy so it has more at stake and it's in its interest to continue the conflict.
    Not necessarily. While India does have the bigger volume in absolute sense, Pakistani military has a larger stake in their country not just from a military standpoint but also from a business interest standpoint.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by RajBan View Post
    Not necessarily. While India does have the bigger volume in absolute sense, Pakistani military has a larger stake in their country not just from a military standpoint but also from a business interest standpoint.
    The ISPR propoganda is too good!
    It's getting to the next generation of overseas Pakistanis
    Oh boy...

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Like taking candy off a baby?

    What is India waiting for, Pakistan to one day wake up and delcare it belongs to India?

    Btw India simply doesnt have the ability to take Kashmir.
    If we could take East Pakistan, why not POK?

    Just that international agreements stop us from doing so. This is why pakistan gets slayed in international forums and their PM is reduced to twitter rants as hardly anyone is interested in their POV.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorblind Genius View Post
    With the current regime of fascists and religious fanatics in power in India, it is almost impossible.

    Their entire politics is based on hate against Pakistan and malice against Muslims.

    Had there been no Pakistan and no Muslims in India, there wouldn't be any BJP.

    So it's quite obvious that if long term peace is achieved with Pakistan then BJP will need to pack it's bags, and hence they will never let it happen.
    Pakistan has had a fascist and religiously fanatic regime since the outset. Its funny how you call a democratically elected govt of a secular republic as fascist. No wonder the world doesn't take you guys seriously.

    Creation of pakistan was based on hatred for non muslims. Ayub Khan's fist showing rant just cemented the same.

    Pakistan army runs pakistan and billions of dollars worth of businesses because of its fear mongering of India, without it they will lose their power.

    No wonder there has been no peace from pakistan's side, no matter who is in power in India. Pakistan has broken atleast 3 agreements of peace it has signed with India.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    If we could take East Pakistan, why not POK?

    Just that international agreements stop us from doing so. This is why pakistan gets slayed in international forums and their PM is reduced to twitter rants as hardly anyone is interested in their POV.
    lol. Agreements arent stoping you, Pak army and nuclear weapons which will wipe out Dehli are stopping you.

    Yes I remember the twitter photo of your pilot drinking tea and wearing a 70's suit.

    Wake up, India is not US or Russia or even China. Send email to Modi to stop firing across the LOC, it will only result in more humiliation but enjoy something which happened 50 years ago.


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    Amidst COVID-19 I imagine both countries could do u with wasting money on arms but I would still think at some point when Modi is facing critique he will decide to pull something off and blame Pakistan as an agitator. The script seems very easy these days. Hope Modi keeps his house in order so he doesn't need to resort to violence on the LOC to divert attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Pakistan has had a fascist and religiously fanatic regime since the outset. Its funny how you call a democratically elected govt of a secular republic as fascist. No wonder the world doesn't take you guys seriously.

    Creation of pakistan was based on hatred for non muslims. Ayub Khan's fist showing rant just cemented the same.

    Pakistan army runs pakistan and billions of dollars worth of businesses because of its fear mongering of India, without it they will lose their power.

    No wonder there has been no peace from pakistan's side, no matter who is in power in India. Pakistan has broken atleast 3 agreements of peace it has signed with India.
    Dude this disease of chest thumping is getting ridiculous

    EXCEPT for US or maybe China no one can force ally take Kashmir just straight facts

    I don't think you actually know the defense situation and what it takes to "take" territories in modern warfare especially against a country like Pakistan and this is not jingoism I am 150% serious and looking at it without the green tinted glasses

    NO India can't make major inroads into Pakistan territory millittarically if looking at it wholeistically (not a nuclear angle)
    Like c'mon how do you even come up with something as ridiculous as this or maybe you're into orange propoganda Who knows

    I see no difference between like you and laal topi types both high off thier own garbage propoganda

    I get it you have a disease of chest thumping and I genuinely feel sorry for you but this was ridiculous

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    Dude this disease of chest thumping is getting ridiculous

    EXCEPT for US or maybe China no one can force ally take Kashmir just straight facts

    I don't think you actually know the defense situation and what it takes to "take" territories in modern warfare especially against a country like Pakistan and this is not jingoism I am 150% serious and looking at it without the green tinted glasses

    NO India can't make major inroads into Pakistan territory millittarically if looking at it wholeistically (not a nuclear angle)
    Like c'mon how do you even come up with something as ridiculous as this or maybe you're into orange propoganda Who knows

    I see no difference between like you and laal topi types both high off thier own garbage propoganda

    I get it you have a disease of chest thumping and I genuinely feel sorry for you but this was ridiculous
    Just the size of military and economy enables India to annex if it wants to. Same like how China can do that to us. It comes at a huge cost though - men, material, monetary, diplomatic, economic etc.

    So if it becomes a national agenda to annex POK, it can be done (easier than you may think) if there is no external support to Pakistan.

    Just Fyi, thats the next thing on BJP manifesto. They executed all the line items above it.

  37. #37
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    ^ sorry I was wrong on BJP manifesto. No such thing:
    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...19_english.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    Just the size of military and economy enables India to annex if it wants to. Same like how China can do that to us. It comes at a huge cost though - men, material, monetary, diplomatic, economic etc.

    So if it becomes a national agenda to annex POK, it can be done (easier than you may think) if there is no external support to Pakistan.

    Just Fyi, that's the next thing on BJP manifesto. They executed all the line items above it.
    Kashmir from Indian side has a very limited approach to Pakistani side (limited ways to enter Azad Kashmir) so you can't "rush" into a Pakistan territory with huge numbers (which is helpful for India) so this gives a HUGE advantage to any defensive force


    Imagine a mountainous region with only two three ways (they are similar to valley) to enter into the habitable regions now you can only put in around maybe three companies in around 4 hours (because there isn't enough space, infrastructure to rush into enemy territory) (with all the heavy equipment) but the enemy is waiting in fortified positions in and around the mountains with a bunch of battalions with all their heavy equipments
    Even Ugandan Army would turn those poor soldiers into mince meat forget a competent army like Pakistan’s (I am no bakht but they are competent)

    This is what India would face in Azad Kashmir theater and I don't think India is stupid enough to keep trying to tire out the Pakistani army into giving up Azad Kashmir (No half decent army would fail such an easy defense job cause the geography reduces the big advantage India has its numbers while PA is in defensive fortified position (in flat lands the odds are 3:1 soldier imagine what it'll be like in a mountainous region with few opening to enter and an enemy with heavy equipment ready to pounce))

    Add in the Local people's hostility towards the invading army (this is an enormous support for defensive army)

    I don't want to get too much into it cause it seems to be too hacky but Pakistan will definitely get huge Chinese support (maybe not direct but with modern equipment straight from Chinese armoury during the war, something which we are seeing rn where China is giving modern 21st century equipment on easy loans to Pak army)

    And this support will take place because of the CPEC Project, on face value an economic project but also focused on military and no country (especially China with ambitions of being a superpower) would like to lose its military assets

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    No that is not going to happen. I have full faith in BJP.
    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    nice job in trying to fool pakistanis that anti pakistan stand is just a bjp thing, and otherwise india is a pakistan friendly nation.
    And that the Pakistani Army's desire for domestic dominance is not the prime driver of the Indo-Pak low level war.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorblind Genius View Post
    With the current regime of fascists and religious fanatics in power in India, it is almost impossible.

    Their entire politics is based on hate against Pakistan and malice against Muslims.

    Had there been no Pakistan and no Muslims in India, there wouldn't be any BJP.

    So it's quite obvious that if long term peace is achieved with Pakistan then BJP will need to pack it's bags, and hence they will never let it happen.
    As someone who is actually from India, I can tell you for certain that the biggest expectation of the BJP supporters is that it would completely bury the corrupt Congress-Nehru-Socialism-License-Raj and bring in the market reforms needed to faster economic growth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    And that the Pakistani Army's desire for domestic dominance is not the prime driver of the Indo-Pak low level war.
    No Pakistani would like to admit this
    But at the end of it Pak army has "played up" the fear of india into our minds to keep that dominance
    Border line police state cause everything they don't like can be attributed to "national security"

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    If we could take East Pakistan, why not POK?

    Just that international agreements stop us from doing so. This is why pakistan gets slayed in international forums and their PM is reduced to twitter rants as hardly anyone is interested in their POV.
    Lame excuses. Which international agreements, please cite them?

    Pakistan is a nuclear power, any attempt to invade or take Azad Kashmir will result in an all out war, destroying both nations. Therefore its stupid of the ONLY big Hindu majority nation to act in a manner which will end it along with killing millions across the border.


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    Quote Originally Posted by RajBan View Post
    Not necessarily. While India does have the bigger volume in absolute sense, Pakistani military has a larger stake in their country not just from a military standpoint but also from a business interest standpoint.
    Yeah but Pak military's business interests are mainly outside warfare and in various industries and real estate so they don't have to rely on weapons manufacturing and warfare to make money while india's army hasn't diversified their investment unlike Pak army thus they're only relevant and getting paid so as long as they're fighting an external "threat" (whether real or engineered).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    Kashmir from Indian side has a very limited approach to Pakistani side (limited ways to enter Azad Kashmir) so you can't "rush" into a Pakistan territory with huge numbers (which is helpful for India) so this gives a HUGE advantage to any defensive force


    Imagine a mountainous region with only two three ways (they are similar to valley) to enter into the habitable regions now you can only put in around maybe three companies in around 4 hours (because there isn't enough space, infrastructure to rush into enemy territory) (with all the heavy equipment) but the enemy is waiting in fortified positions in and around the mountains with a bunch of battalions with all their heavy equipments
    Even Ugandan Army would turn those poor soldiers into mince meat forget a competent army like Pakistan’s (I am no bakht but they are competent)

    This is what India would face in Azad Kashmir theater and I don't think India is stupid enough to keep trying to tire out the Pakistani army into giving up Azad Kashmir (No half decent army would fail such an easy defense job cause the geography reduces the big advantage India has its numbers while PA is in defensive fortified position (in flat lands the odds are 3:1 soldier imagine what it'll be like in a mountainous region with few opening to enter and an enemy with heavy equipment ready to pounce))

    Add in the Local people's hostility towards the invading army (this is an enormous support for defensive army)

    I don't want to get too much into it cause it seems to be too hacky but Pakistan will definitely get huge Chinese support (maybe not direct but with modern equipment straight from Chinese armoury during the war, something which we are seeing rn where China is giving modern 21st century equipment on easy loans to Pak army)

    And this support will take place because of the CPEC Project, on face value an economic project but also focused on military and no country (especially China with ambitions of being a superpower) would like to lose its military assets
    I am no military expert but army will be the last thing moving inside Pok. Also the war cannot be limited to Pok.

    First thing is establishing air superiority and naval blockade. Thats what was done in 1971.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    Yeah but Pak military's business interests are mainly outside warfare and in various industries and real estate so they don't have to rely on weapons manufacturing and warfare to make money while india's army hasn't diversified their investment unlike Pak army thus they're only relevant and getting paid so as long as they're fighting an external "threat" (whether real or engineered).
    getting paid?
    They don't even get proper daal roti.
    There have been videos going viral of them crying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorblind Genius View Post
    getting paid?
    They don't even get proper daal roti.
    There have been videos going viral of them crying.
    Ordinary soldiers get paid nothing, they're just cannon fodders -the ones making the big bucks are the Indian Generals, it's always the top brass that are corrupt and exploiting the rank and file.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    As someone who is actually from India, I can tell you for certain that the biggest expectation of the BJP supporters is that it would completely bury the corrupt Congress-Nehru-Socialism-License-Raj and bring in the market reforms needed to faster economic growth.
    Was Congress not the ones who started opening up the economy in the 90's?

    And you think Hindutva has nothing to do with them winning? Does hating on Mughals, wanting to rename cities with Muslim names, Modi talking about "1,200 years of slavery", not get them votes?

    What about Modi saying that he can identify rioters by clothes, and Hum paanch, humare pachees type statements?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    No Pakistani would like to admit this
    But at the end of it Pak army has "played up" the fear of india into our minds to keep that dominance
    Border line police state cause everything they don't like can be attributed to "national security"
    Yet it was Musharraf and PM Singh who almost came to a deal on Kashmir. So that argument does not really hold anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Pakistan has had a fascist and religiously fanatic regime since the outset. Its funny how you call a democratically elected govt of a secular republic as fascist. No wonder the world doesn't take you guys seriously.
    With the exception of Zia i dont know how you can call Pakistani regimes fascist. Heck Pakistan has never even voted in the religious parties at the federal level, and parties that win are either center, or left wing.

    The last 3 parties that won the federal election PPP, PML N, and PTI all supported having good relations with India.

    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post

    Creation of pakistan was based on hatred for non muslims. Ayub Khan's fist showing rant just cemented the same.
    Its hatred of non Muslims, that once ML could not reach a power sharing deal with Congress, they asked for independence? They tried until the end to get a deal done.

    The subcontinent does not belong exclusively to Hindus or other Dharmic faiths. Muslims have a right to it as well, and not just live there, but have actual power in running it. And not having to brownose to the majority like some Indian Muslims do.

    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Pakistan army runs pakistan and billions of dollars worth of businesses because of its fear mongering of India, without it they will lose their power.

    No wonder there has been no peace from pakistan's side, no matter who is in power in India. Pakistan has broken atleast 3 agreements of peace it has signed with India.
    Yet it was the same Army that almost came to a deal on India with Kashmir under PM Singh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Lame excuses. Which international agreements, please cite them?

    Pakistan is a nuclear power, any attempt to invade or take Azad Kashmir will result in an all out war, destroying both nations. Therefore its stupid of the ONLY big Hindu majority nation to act in a manner which will end it along with killing millions across the border.
    1949 ceasefire agreement
    1971 Shimla Agreement
    1999 Lahore Declaration.

    Nuclear weapons can be pre empted.

    Numbers of Hindus don't matter, look at the jews.

    If 500mn hindus die, the rest 600mn will strive to make a better nation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    Was Congress not the ones who started opening up the economy in the 90's?

    And you think Hindutva has nothing to do with them winning? Does hating on Mughals, wanting to rename cities with Muslim names, Modi talking about "1,200 years of slavery", not get them votes?

    What about Modi saying that he can identify rioters by clothes, and Hum paanch, humare pachees type statements?
    Congress started opening the economy after making it rot for over 40 years when Nehru socialism became completely untenable. BJP was always the party that was for getting the government out of the economy.

    Yes, Hindutva is part of BJP's election plank, but the biggest expectation of its voters is that it will fix the economy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    No Pakistani would like to admit this
    But at the end of it Pak army has "played up" the fear of india into our minds to keep that dominance
    Border line police state cause everything they don't like can be attributed to "national security"
    If Pakistan did not have an external enemy (India), then Pakistanis would naturally ask its military "why are you getting so much benefits (land, salaries, top jobs in non-military firms etc) when the rest of the economy is doing badly?".

    BJP also uses "external enemy" as part of its election plank, but at least its main plank is economic reforms. It is trying to free up the economy with tax rationalization like GST, farm laws reforms etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    Yeah but Pak military's business interests are mainly outside warfare and in various industries and real estate so they don't have to rely on weapons manufacturing and warfare to make money while india's army hasn't diversified their investment unlike Pak army thus they're only relevant and getting paid so as long as they're fighting an external "threat" (whether real or engineered).
    An Army isn't supposed to make investments to pay for itself. If it does then it pushes out the private sector and the economy rots.

    That is the reason the ENTIRE Market Capitalization of all firms in the Karachi Stock Index is $52.4 billion, which is exceeded by individual Indian firms like Reliance ($200 billion), TCS ($150 billion), HDFC ($115 billion), INFY ($75 billion) and others.

    As on March 2nd, 2021 there are 549 companies listed in PSX and the total market capitalization is Rs. 8,229.243 billions.
    https://www.ksestocks.com/AboutPSX
    That is the reason why Bangladesh under Hasina is leaving Pakistan far behind economically.

    Name:  Screen Shot 2021-03-03 at 4.51.32 AM.jpg
Views: 344
Size:  8.8 KB

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...rue&start=2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    Ordinary soldiers get paid nothing, they're just cannon fodders -the ones making the big bucks are the Indian Generals, it's always the top brass that are corrupt and exploiting the rank and file.
    You have no clue. I personally know Indian Army generals. They lead upper middle class lives. A few are corrupt like anywhere else, but the vast majority are clean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorblind Genius View Post
    getting paid?
    They don't even get proper daal roti.
    There have been videos going viral of them crying.
    Don't base your view of the world viral videos. India remains a poor country, but it has done much much better economically compared to Pakistan the last couple of decades. It has actually developed modern industries and that is seen in the market cap of individual firms like Reliance ($200 billion), TCS ($150 billion), HDFC ($115 billion), INFY ($75 billion) and others which exceed the ENTIRE Market Capitalization of all firms in the Karachi Stock Index ($52.4 billion).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    Yet it was Musharraf and PM Singh who almost came to a deal on Kashmir. So that argument does not really hold anymore.
    It's all an eyewash. Have seen the same drama many times before. The Pakistani Army is not sincere about solving the Kashmir issue. If it did, it would lose the biggest reason for its domestic dominance.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Don't base your view of the world viral videos. India remains a poor country, but it has done much much better economically compared to Pakistan the last couple of decades. It has actually developed modern industries and that is seen in the market cap of individual firms like Reliance ($200 billion), TCS ($150 billion), HDFC ($115 billion), INFY ($75 billion) and others which exceed the ENTIRE Market Capitalization of all firms in the Karachi Stock Index ($52.4 billion).
    yeah, yeah, yeah ... same old boring cr@p. You'd think mentioning of these buzz words like "billions" and more "Billions" would give you the edge.

    With the amount of population these figures don't mean much when you look at the number of mouths to feed in India. Even Bangladesh has taken over in GPD per capita.

    Poverty line is about at the same level in India and Pakistan. Or should we compare the number of homeless people in India vs Pakistan, and arrive at the conclusion that Pakistan is better? 110 million vs 20 million.

    And while you are at it, spend a few of those "billions of dollars" to provide a few extra toilets with running water to your public.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorblind Genius View Post
    yeah, yeah, yeah ... same old boring cr@p. You'd think mentioning of these buzz words like "billions" and more "Billions" would give you the edge.

    With the amount of population these figures don't mean much when you look at the number of mouths to feed in India. Even Bangladesh has taken over in GPD per capita.

    Poverty line is about at the same level in India and Pakistan. Or should we compare the number of homeless people in India vs Pakistan, and arrive at the conclusion that Pakistan is better? 110 million vs 20 million.

    And while you are at it, spend a few of those "billions of dollars" to provide a few extra toilets with running water to your public.
    Give advise to your own regarding toiletsm


    https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/daily...et-report/amp/


    India is far ahead of pakistan in economy. Its amusing how a country living on IMF loans is trying to belittle a country that IMF predicts to be the fastest growing economy this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Give advise to your own regarding toiletsm


    https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/daily...et-report/amp/


    India is far ahead of pakistan in economy. Its amusing how a country living on IMF loans is trying to belittle a country that IMF predicts to be the fastest growing economy this year.
    See? same old glorified cr@p to represent a shallow sense of superiority.
    Even if we go by your logic, 79 million people without toilets in Pakistan vs 350 million people without access to a toilet in India, what's the point of your supposedly "financial superiority"? Keep thumping your chest if that makes you feel better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    I am no military expert but army will be the last thing moving inside Pok. Also the war cannot be limited to Pok.

    First thing is establishing air superiority and naval blockade. Thats what was done in 1971.
    First the 1971 part yeah about that it can't happen now (divided forces, geography, insurgency hopefully you are smart enough to get the point, I don't want to get into too much detail cause it's not worth a proper discussion tbh if you are a thinking person you'll know)
    Better look at 65 because there was no proper war on Bengal front and it was lightly defended with no tank, 16 planes and a one division (but even than it isn't perfect because Pakistan was in an attack mode in Kashmir(troops concentrated in one front) because of that other parts were lightly defended but in case of full war on international borders that you are envisioning I am sure all the border areas will be defended properly)
    In this scenario ramming into Azad Kashmir is out of question because if you evenly defend across major sectors the defensive odds are still WAY(you can't put lots of boots on the ground while defenders can- the numbers advantage is in the defenders hand) high because of the geography
    Only option left is ramming through the flat Punjab area, I don't think Pak army is that incompetent to let Indian army capture all the major population sectors (if you go through army capabilities and also the capabilities of Indian army you’ll know but I don't want to bore people cause it almost always lead to dumb conversations of one “upness” and that's not mentally simulating) but OK I assume that yeah Indian army is powerful and can take down the international border defense due its sheer size and ill go with that assumption (Now that's 1000s miles away from Azad Kashmir;Facing armed resistance(of army, militias) and this will almost certainly risk a nuclear I am 95% sure because you have to pass/capture major Pak population canters, cities of millions of people and the capitol city- No country in the world would stop themselves from using the nuclear option in that apocalyptic scenario)
    I see some dumb posts about preemptive strikes on nuclear sites it scares even the US to do so (reportedly Israel did it in against Iraq(if you(not personally you) think that Pak military is as incompetent as Iraq’s then truly a facepalm moment on one’s knowledge on these defense affairs) and these strikes took place at the beginning of nuclear programs not decades after showing the world their nuclear capabilities, with nuclear weapons, launch sites scattered around the country)
    When you go to air superiority option, you certainly can't do it “first” it'll lead to a full-blown war
    To have full superiority it'll take at least 3-4 weeks (because you want to wait for air superiority before troop movement) but in modern warfare unless you can end the war in 20 or at most 30 days there's no point because International pressure gets too hot - China will start provocations(not war but threats of it with troop movements, skirmishes this'll get India nervous) in Indian disputed territories
    The time frame it takes to wait for full air superiority and then moving in troops is just too long for modern warfare between two nuclear countries - this time frame opens up too many options for external forces to influence the war in ways that can disrupt all the plans of taking any disputed territory
    Naval blockade same situation the time frame isn't enough to actually truly hurt Pak

    Pakistan suffered from getting high of their own propaganda by actually believing their own b* some Orange topi Indians want the same for India - I am just warning..
    Like they say don't get high of your own supply

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    1949 ceasefire agreement
    1971 Shimla Agreement
    1999 Lahore Declaration.

    Nuclear weapons can be pre empted.

    Numbers of Hindus don't matter, look at the jews.

    If 500mn hindus die, the rest 600mn will strive to make a better nation.
    lol These are null and void. When you entered our airspace it was an act of war. We responded by shooting you down and capturing your pilot.

    Wake up from RSS mindset, you cannot take a huge piece of land from a strong armed forces with nuclear weapons. Please educate yourself.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorblind Genius View Post
    See? same old glorified cr@p to represent a shallow sense of superiority.
    Even if we go by your logic, 79 million people without toilets in Pakistan vs 350 million people without access to a toilet in India, what's the point of your supposedly "financial superiority"? Keep thumping your chest if that makes you feel better.
    350 million? Dont bring stats out of your backside.

    https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/m.eco...w/70071414.cms

    Financial superiority means we dont have to beg for bailouts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    lol These are null and void. When you entered our airspace it was an act of war. We responded by shooting you down and capturing your pilot.

    Wake up from RSS mindset, you cannot take a huge piece of land from a strong armed forces with nuclear weapons. Please educate yourself.
    Have pakistan declared them null and void? Any statement regarding this?

    We entered pakistan. Dropped bombs at Balakote. Came back unchallenged.

    We took the entire east Pakistan and 90k pakistanis were eating out of our hands. Thats the hard fact.

    I am more educated than you are. You display your education across threads with your ignorant posts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    350 million? Dont bring stats out of your backside.

    https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/m.eco...w/70071414.cms

    Financial superiority means we dont have to beg for bailouts.
    Yeah you can use any news source to find what suits your narrative.

    There are Indian news sources reporting that it's up 620 million toiletless people in India.

    In other news, that favors you, Modi promises to make 110 million toilets; HOWEVER Indians won't use them as they love to defecate in the open.

    So take the award of "having financial superiority", and teach those people to use Indian Rs as toilet paper rather than using mud stones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    First the 1971 part yeah about that it can't happen now (divided forces, geography, insurgency hopefully you are smart enough to get the point, I don't want to get into too much detail cause it's not worth a proper discussion tbh if you are a thinking person you'll know)
    Better look at 65 because there was no proper war on Bengal front and it was lightly defended with no tank, 16 planes and a one division (but even than it isn't perfect because Pakistan was in an attack mode in Kashmir(troops concentrated in one front) because of that other parts were lightly defended but in case of full war on international borders that you are envisioning I am sure all the border areas will be defended properly)
    In this scenario ramming into Azad Kashmir is out of question because if you evenly defend across major sectors the defensive odds are still WAY(you can't put lots of boots on the ground while defenders can- the numbers advantage is in the defenders hand) high because of the geography
    Only option left is ramming through the flat Punjab area, I don't think Pak army is that incompetent to let Indian army capture all the major population sectors (if you go through army capabilities and also the capabilities of Indian army you’ll know but I don't want to bore people cause it almost always lead to dumb conversations of one “upness” and that's not mentally simulating) but OK I assume that yeah Indian army is powerful and can take down the international border defense due its sheer size and ill go with that assumption (Now that's 1000s miles away from Azad Kashmir;Facing armed resistance(of army, militias) and this will almost certainly risk a nuclear I am 95% sure because you have to pass/capture major Pak population canters, cities of millions of people and the capitol city- No country in the world would stop themselves from using the nuclear option in that apocalyptic scenario)
    I see some dumb posts about preemptive strikes on nuclear sites it scares even the US to do so (reportedly Israel did it in against Iraq(if you(not personally you) think that Pak military is as incompetent as Iraq’s then truly a facepalm moment on one’s knowledge on these defense affairs) and these strikes took place at the beginning of nuclear programs not decades after showing the world their nuclear capabilities, with nuclear weapons, launch sites scattered around the country)
    When you go to air superiority option, you certainly can't do it “first” it'll lead to a full-blown war
    To have full superiority it'll take at least 3-4 weeks (because you want to wait for air superiority before troop movement) but in modern warfare unless you can end the war in 20 or at most 30 days there's no point because International pressure gets too hot - China will start provocations(not war but threats of it with troop movements, skirmishes this'll get India nervous) in Indian disputed territories
    The time frame it takes to wait for full air superiority and then moving in troops is just too long for modern warfare between two nuclear countries - this time frame opens up too many options for external forces to influence the war in ways that can disrupt all the plans of taking any disputed territory
    Naval blockade same situation the time frame isn't enough to actually truly hurt Pak

    Pakistan suffered from getting high of their own propaganda by actually believing their own b* some Orange topi Indians want the same for India - I am just warning..
    Like they say don't get high of your own supply
    Thanks for your elaborate explanation. The main points are:
    1. Pakistan has strong enough defence
    2. Will go nuclear if it starts losing
    3. International help will come
    4. If India enters Pakistan, it will face resistance from population
    I am sure Indian army/govt are aware of all these factors.

    The situation we were discussing was "if it becomes a national agenda, it can be done". Lets evaluate your arguments in that context:
    1. The nos are still highly skewed in India's favor. India get a bloody nose but will prevail with some loses.
    2. This is out of scope. Using Nuclear is a suicide option. People forget that India has better nuclear weapons (plutonium based) and also thermonuclear weapons. Not to mention better delivery systems compared to Pakistan. Not to mention various missile/air defence systems that are already deployed (AAD, PAD), being acquired (S-100) and designed (v2 of AAD/PAD) with a lot of help from Israel.
    3. We are taking about managing geopolitics here. India has done exceedingly well here historically even considering that it was on the other side of US and Arab countries. If you check, in the last 2 decades, India has all significant players on its side barring China. So, no there is no respite here.
    4. We are not talking about occupying Pakistan but capturing/annexing PoK. We have successfully held Indian held Kashmir for 7 decades in face of extreme, provoked, armed insurgency and international pressure. So, dont see this as debilitating factor.

    We are talking about extremes scenarios here. In these cases, it's always the heavier player that prevails.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Have pakistan declared them null and void? Any statement regarding this?

    We entered pakistan. Dropped bombs at Balakote. Came back unchallenged.

    We took the entire east Pakistan and 90k pakistanis were eating out of our hands. Thats the hard fact.

    I am more educated than you are. You display your education across threads with your ignorant posts.
    There is no diplomatic relations with India. Therefore they are nul land voild.

    You dropped bombs on trees lol.

    You cant be very educated if you actually believe India can take back Kashmir through military means. This is an RSS extremist wet dream. :ghambir


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    First the 1971 part yeah about that it can't happen now (divided forces, geography, insurgency hopefully you are smart enough to get the point, I don't want to get into too much detail cause it's not worth a proper discussion tbh if you are a thinking person you'll know)
    Better look at 65 because there was no proper war on Bengal front and it was lightly defended with no tank, 16 planes and a one division (but even than it isn't perfect because Pakistan was in an attack mode in Kashmir(troops concentrated in one front) because of that other parts were lightly defended but in case of full war on international borders that you are envisioning I am sure all the border areas will be defended properly)
    In this scenario ramming into Azad Kashmir is out of question because if you evenly defend across major sectors the defensive odds are still WAY(you can't put lots of boots on the ground while defenders can- the numbers advantage is in the defenders hand) high because of the geography
    Only option left is ramming through the flat Punjab area, I don't think Pak army is that incompetent to let Indian army capture all the major population sectors (if you go through army capabilities and also the capabilities of Indian army you’ll know but I don't want to bore people cause it almost always lead to dumb conversations of one “upness” and that's not mentally simulating) but OK I assume that yeah Indian army is powerful and can take down the international border defense due its sheer size and ill go with that assumption (Now that's 1000s miles away from Azad Kashmir;Facing armed resistance(of army, militias) and this will almost certainly risk a nuclear I am 95% sure because you have to pass/capture major Pak population canters, cities of millions of people and the capitol city- No country in the world would stop themselves from using the nuclear option in that apocalyptic scenario)
    I see some dumb posts about preemptive strikes on nuclear sites it scares even the US to do so (reportedly Israel did it in against Iraq(if you(not personally you) think that Pak military is as incompetent as Iraq’s then truly a facepalm moment on one’s knowledge on these defense affairs) and these strikes took place at the beginning of nuclear programs not decades after showing the world their nuclear capabilities, with nuclear weapons, launch sites scattered around the country)
    When you go to air superiority option, you certainly can't do it “first” it'll lead to a full-blown war
    To have full superiority it'll take at least 3-4 weeks (because you want to wait for air superiority before troop movement) but in modern warfare unless you can end the war in 20 or at most 30 days there's no point because International pressure gets too hot - China will start provocations(not war but threats of it with troop movements, skirmishes this'll get India nervous) in Indian disputed territories
    The time frame it takes to wait for full air superiority and then moving in troops is just too long for modern warfare between two nuclear countries - this time frame opens up too many options for external forces to influence the war in ways that can disrupt all the plans of taking any disputed territory
    Naval blockade same situation the time frame isn't enough to actually truly hurt Pak

    Pakistan suffered from getting high of their own propaganda by actually believing their own b* some Orange topi Indians want the same for India - I am just warning..
    Like they say don't get high of your own supply
    Thanks for your elaborate explanation. The main points are:
    1. Pakistan has strong enough defence
    2. Will go nuclear if it starts losing
    3. International help will come
    4. If India enters Pakistan, it will face resistance from population
    I am sure Indian army/govt are aware of all these factors.

    The situation we were discussing was "if it becomes a national agenda, it can be done". Lets evaluate your arguments in that context:
    1. The nos are still highly skewed in India's favor. India get a bloody nose but will prevail with some loses.
    2. This is out of scope. Using Nuclear is a suicide option. People forget that India has better nuclear weapons (plutonium based) and also thermonuclear weapons. Not to mention better delivery systems compared to Pakistan. Not to mention various missile/air defence systems that are already deployed (AAD, PAD), being acquired (S-400) and designed (v2 of AAD/PAD) with a lot of help from Israel.
    3. We are taking about managing geopolitics here. India has done exceedingly well here historically even considering that it was on the other side of US and Arab countries. If you check, in the last 2 decades, India has all significant players on its side barring China. So, no there is no respite here.
    4. We are not talking about occupying Pakistan but capturing/annexing PoK. We have successfully held Indian held Kashmir for 7 decades in face of extreme, provoked, armed insurgency and international pressure. So, dont see this as debilitating factor.

    We are talking about extreme scenarios here. In these cases, it's always the heavier player that prevails.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorblind Genius View Post
    Yeah you can use any news source to find what suits your narrative.

    There are Indian news sources reporting that it's up 620 million toiletless people in India.

    In other news, that favors you, Modi promises to make 110 million toilets; HOWEVER Indians won't use them as they love to defecate in the open.

    So take the award of "having financial superiority", and teach those people to use Indian Rs as toilet paper rather than using mud stones.
    Why dont you put your sources? Hopefully they are not NGO based sources.I can put Unicef sources if you want.

    I know it frustrates you that your country is in a perennial begging for bailouts situation, while India is making economic strides, but throwing your toys out of the pram wont help you.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Why dont you put your sources? Hopefully they are not NGO based sources.I can put Unicef sources if you want.

    I know it frustrates you that your country is in a perennial begging for bailouts situation, while India is making economic strides, but throwing your toys out of the pram wont help you.
    lol
    Search the internet, you will find Indian sources.

    Here is one.

    https://www.cnet.com/news/india-spen...eal%20diseases.

    Urmila is a housemaid living in a South Delhi slum. Today she has a toilet at home thanks to the Indian government's massive sanitation program called Swachh Bharat. She's grateful for not having to use a public toilet, though she admits that many prefer not using any toilet at all.

    Meanwhile, Meera, who lives in a slum in New Delhi, prefers to defecate in the open, at nightfall.

    While you win the argument AND the award for being financially much much, much, superior to Pakistan who is at the verge of bankruptcy while you are the future financial hub of the planet earth.... remember one thing. "Money can't buy the taste".

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorblind Genius View Post
    yeah, yeah, yeah ... same old boring cr@p. You'd think mentioning of these buzz words like "billions" and more "Billions" would give you the edge.

    With the amount of population these figures don't mean much when you look at the number of mouths to feed in India. Even Bangladesh has taken over in GPD per capita.

    Poverty line is about at the same level in India and Pakistan. Or should we compare the number of homeless people in India vs Pakistan, and arrive at the conclusion that Pakistan is better? 110 million vs 20 million.

    And while you are at it, spend a few of those "billions of dollars" to provide a few extra toilets with running water to your public.
    If the fact that the market capitalization of the entire Karachi Stock Exchange is one-fourth that of a single Indian firm doesn't make you reflect, there is no hope for your country if most of your countrymen think like you.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorblind Genius View Post
    lol
    Search the internet, you will find Indian sources.

    Here is one.

    https://www.cnet.com/news/india-spen...eal%20diseases.




    While you win the argument AND the award for being financially much much, much, superior to Pakistan who is at the verge of bankruptcy while you are the future financial hub of the planet earth.... remember one thing. "Money can't buy the taste".
    500 million people have stopped defecating in the open since 2014, down from 550 million to less than 50 million today.

    Thats the Unicef data.

    https://www.unicef.org/india/what-we...pen-defecation

    Next time please look up a proper source and not sources that quote, The Wire.


    Those who dont have money talk like this only.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    Thanks for your elaborate explanation. The main points are:
    1. Pakistan has strong enough defence
    2. Will go nuclear if it starts losing
    3. International help will come (well not the kind you are envisioning, not the usual help in terms of "talk")
    4. If India enters Pakistan, it will face resistance from population (well again not exactly itll face resistance with Pak army, paramilitaries, militias who after losing the border war (which I am sure they won't and definitely not within 2-3 months but I am going with the best case scenerio for india)
    so after losing the border they'll certainly retreat to urban centers know these are 10 of thousands of armed people in defensive, urban, fortified positions you can't take one city like that in 2-3 months imagine multiple cities in the same situation(since India is passing through densely populated center to pass through those areas- and it's not like you can pass through without capturing these centers is thousands of miles of territory- your supply lines will be a mess certainly not capable of fighting a 2-3 year war (it'll last that long because you have to take urban one by one)

    I am sure Indian army/govt are aware of all these factors.(and that's why they are not fighting; they are not idiots like our bunch…)

    The situation we were discussing was "if it becomes a national agenda, it can be done". Lets evaluate your arguments in that context:
    1. The nos are still highly skewed in India's favor. India get a bloody nose but will prevail with some loses.
    (but number aren't everything we have to take so many things into consideration

    2. This is out of scope. Using Nuclear is a suicide option. People forget that India has better nuclear weapons (plutonium based) and also thermonuclear weapons. Not to mention better delivery systems compared to Pakistan. Not to mention various missile/air defence systems that are already deployed (AAD, PAD), being acquired (S-400) and designed (v2 of AAD/PAD) with a lot of help from Israel. (so check the context I was talking in, The nuclear option is certainly the suicidal of course no question there(BTW air defense system won't be of much help in an actual nuclear situation) but it was in a context of being pushed into the corner when you rush into Punjab (region where most Pakistani population lives in) this will be like cornering a cat cause when you threaten majority of the population this forces and already insecure country into using the nuclear option- doesn't matter who suffers more from it because in that situation of sheer survival that'll be the last thing on their mind)[/B]
    3. We are taking about managing geopolitics here. India has done exceedingly well here historically even considering that it was on the other side of US and Arab countries. If you check, in the last 2 decades, India has all significant players on its side barring China. So, no there is no respite here. (Ill just repost the specific point I posted…)
    “International pressure gets too hot - China will start provocations(not war but threats of it with troop movements, skirmishes this'll get India nervous) in Indian disputed territories”
    4. We are not talking about occupying Pakistan but capturing/annexing PoK. We have successfully held Indian held Kashmir for 7 decades in face of extreme, provoked, armed insurgency and international pressure. So, dont see this as debilitating factor.(the armed resistance was more about armed forces themselves retreating into urban center and fighting from there not really about counter insurgency situation) (Yes I know but to get to that point you have to capture international areas with densely populated areas- at least during the duration of war (which I now believe can last at least two years- if China is taking care of the arms situation)
    This is where the problem lies long war- opening up possibilities of external forces also capturing of large population centers, if it happens it'll be unprecedented, I certainly don't see modern warfare lasting that long)


    We are talking about extreme scenarios here. In these cases, it's always the heavier player that prevails.(yes in Alexander's era nowadays there are nuances involved so it's not a hard and fast rule)
    ...
    Last edited by sweep_shot; 4th March 2021 at 06:52. Reason: Fixed the bold tags.

  73. #73
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    It’s hilarious how a thread asking about how long a ceasefire can remain in effect has morphed into a discussion on India invading Pakistan, nuking each other to smithereens, and basically turning the entire sub continent into ash. So I guess the answer is no, the ceasefire ain’t goona hold.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by offstump View Post
    It’s hilarious how a thread asking about how long a ceasefire can remain in effect has morphed into a discussion on India invading Pakistan, nuking each other to smithereens, and basically turning the entire sub continent into ash. So I guess the answer is no, the ceasefire ain’t goona hold.
    Guilty as charged
    I am a defence nerd; I enjoy it (just saying don't take it too seriously guys...)
    remember once having a long discussion about US invasion of USSR on some defence forum in the 2010s...
    yeah so you know don't mind me

  75. #75
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    After reading some very insightful and outrageous posts here is my take:

    tldr: There will be no war. Because if nuclear weapons.

    Pak will keep on supporting IOK tho, which eventually will be free from India's occupation (Insha'Allah).

    And if God forbid, situation gets so bad that India or Pakistan have to use their nukes then it will be the end of our whole region and world will change for ever, for worse.

    I strongly believe if there was a possibility to get rid of Pakistan's nukes then USA, India, Israel and their nexus of evil would have done it in 2010s. It was an ideal time, as we had chaos of all types and manners and literal thieves were running country into ground.

    So in a way, nukes are giving us security and an opportunity to live a purposeful life.

    China and India won't go into war either. Because China has clear agenda and mission statement for next few decades and it requires a stable political situation. War doesn't get them anything, they can easily buy banana republics and live and let live. Plus they are developing 3rd world countries which USA has only destroyed with it's yee-haw historical policies in past decades.
    India are just incompetent. In a world where even fundamental Taliban are "evolving", India are going deep into religious extremism. (And I'm strongly biased against India, don't bother calling me out if you think I'm wrong here).

    That only leaves us USA. With Trump, to my utmost surprise, there was a pleasant change in American mentality. Maybe because he is a businessman and not a politician. In the end, actions speak louder than words. And despite his many shortcomings, Trump has been a less threat to world peace than Biden.
    Despite my disgust towards terrorist state of Israel and Trump's rotten family's connection with Zionist, I believe if Obama was given a nobel peace prize then Trump deserves two of them... at least he didn't murder random Afghan kids...

    My 2 rusty but very very worthy cents.

  76. #76
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    All talk , both are nuclear powers, that's where the threat ENDS.

  77. #77
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    During last few years pakistan had lost control over considerable amount of assets in kashmir, cease fire will help to save lives of people on its side of loc but there are other ways to keep people safe.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    Guilty as charged
    I am a defence nerd; I enjoy it (just saying don't take it too seriously guys...)
    remember once having a long discussion about US invasion of USSR on some defence forum in the 2010s...
    yeah so you know don't mind me
    Haha no worries I just found it amusing looking at where the discussion started to where it went. Good analysis.

  79. #79
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    A little more than a week after New Delhi and Islamabad recommitted themselves to the 2003 truce on the Line of Control (LoC), India on Friday said it wants normal relations with all neighbours, including Pakistan, though its position on key issues remains unchanged.

    The Indian and Pakistani armies have said they began strictly adhering to a ceasefire on the LoC in Jammu and Kashmir from the midnight of February 24 – the apparent outcome of behind-the-scenes contacts between the two countries.

    In response to a question on whether the recommitment to the ceasefire would lead to more confidence-building measures or whether there had been any change in India’s stated position of linking talks to Pakistan cracking down on terrorism, external affairs ministry spokesperson Anurag Srivastava only said all issues between the two sides should be tackled peacefully.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...960990587.html


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  80. #80
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    Wary villagers relish peace as guns fall silent along LoC

    Living just 850 metres away from the Pakistan Army positions on the hill slopes of Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (PoK), villagers of Balkote and Silikote near the Line of Control (LoC) in Baramulla’s Uri are finally picking up the threads of life, which was badly frayed by frequent shelling and sniping in the last three years.

    It has been over a week since the guns have fallen silent on the LoC after the renewed pact on the ceasefire between India and Pakistan. However, people here are waiting and watching how long the ceasefire will hold, as the two countries have begun tentative contacts after a gap of five years.

    Tentative calm
    While the soldiers manning the LoC in Uri remain on guard, a sense of calm is visible on their faces. Keeping a close watch on the movement on the other side of the LoC, many soldiers, not officially authorised to talk to the media, told The Hindu that the ceasefire was being adhered to strictly from both the sides.

    “The free hand given to the soldiers earlier is no more in vogue,” a soldier, on the condition of anonymity, said.

    Scores of posts where small boards read ‘No open movement, sniper zone’, now see milling around of relaxed soldiers, who, nevertheless, report each and every suspicious movement to their seniors. Earlier such zones within the installations were no-go areas to escape any sniping from Pakistani soldiers, located in elevated pickets on the opposite hill slope on the PoK side.

    “Online funny videos, like TikTok, are entertaining the soldiers in free time now,” said another soldier.

    Do read full article here : https://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...le34007181.ece


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