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  1. #1
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    Ahmadi doctor gunned down inside his clinic in Peshawar

    PESHAWAR:A local practitioner, hailing from the Ahmadi minority community, was gunned down in his clinic on the outskits of Peshawar Thursday afternoon.

    Police said that the attacker, a 16-year-old youth, was arrested and a pistol used in the murder was also recovered from his possession.

    “He [the suspect] is just a child who had been brainwashed and sent for the murder. He entered the clinic of Abdul Qadir and opened fire at him, killing him on the spot,” SP Waqar Khan told The Express Tribune.

    The suspect, a resident of Khyber tribal district, was overpowered by people and later handed over to the police, he added.

    An FIR in the murder is yet to be registered. According to police, it was a targeted attack and the motive was sectarian.

    Abdul Qadir was a resident of Bazid Khel village where a small Ahmadi community used to live until recently. He was not an MBBS doctor but rather a paramedic who was practising locally.

    “The Qadyani or Ahmadi clinic is well-known as it was established by Abdul Qadir’s father who was a popular man in the area. Previously he was a favourite target for Mangal Bagh-led Lashker Islam outfit who repeatedly tried to kidnap him from the clinic in which a guard was also killed along with a Lashker’s attacker but the bid was foiled,” a local resident said while talking to The Express Tribune.

    “His treatment fee was nominal and charges of medicine were also included in it,” he said, adding, "That is why Abdul Qadir and his father were really popular among the locals who are mostly poor people."

    “He [the victim] was loved by the people of his village Bazid Khel and protected by them despite a hatred for him due to the family’s belief,” he added.

    Source:https://tribune.com.pk/story/2283592...ic-in-peshawar


    Sehwag and Steyn are the Best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    PESHAWAR:A local practitioner, hailing from the Ahmadi minority community, was gunned down in his clinic on the outskits of Peshawar Thursday afternoon.

    Police said that the attacker, a 16-year-old youth, was arrested and a pistol used in the murder was also recovered from his possession.

    “He [the suspect] is just a child who had been brainwashed and sent for the murder. He entered the clinic of Abdul Qadir and opened fire at him, killing him on the spot,” SP Waqar Khan told The Express Tribune.

    The suspect, a resident of Khyber tribal district, was overpowered by people and later handed over to the police, he added.

    An FIR in the murder is yet to be registered. According to police, it was a targeted attack and the motive was sectarian.

    Abdul Qadir was a resident of Bazid Khel village where a small Ahmadi community used to live until recently. He was not an MBBS doctor but rather a paramedic who was practising locally.

    “The Qadyani or Ahmadi clinic is well-known as it was established by Abdul Qadir’s father who was a popular man in the area. Previously he was a favourite target for Mangal Bagh-led Lashker Islam outfit who repeatedly tried to kidnap him from the clinic in which a guard was also killed along with a Lashker’s attacker but the bid was foiled,” a local resident said while talking to The Express Tribune.

    “His treatment fee was nominal and charges of medicine were also included in it,” he said, adding, "That is why Abdul Qadir and his father were really popular among the locals who are mostly poor people."

    “He [the victim] was loved by the people of his village Bazid Khel and protected by them despite a hatred for him due to the family’s belief,” he added.

    Source:https://tribune.com.pk/story/2283592...ic-in-peshawar
    I wonder what the motive was

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadeemp View Post
    I wonder what the motive was
    It is clearly a religiously-motivated attack.

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    RIP. Ahmaddiyas need to be protected.

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    Obviously the 16 year old was influenced by someone, they should investigate the parties involved and an example should be made out of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericBrand View Post
    Obviously the 16 year old was influenced by someone, they should investigate the parties involved and an example should be made out of them.
    Not happening. Let alone punishing the perpetrators, our government, PM and ministers do not even condemn such barbarity. Too fearful of the right wing.

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    “Will show Modi government how to treat minorities” - Imran Khan, the most incompetent PM in Pakistan history.

    Has he tweeted yet, or he is still daydreaming about conquering Kashmir?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    “Will show Modi government how to treat minorities” - Imran Khan, the most incompetent PM in Pakistan history.

    Has he tweeted yet, or he is still daydreaming about conquering Kashmir?
    He always looks the other way whenever a minority member is killed or a Hindu girl is forcibly converted to Islam. He harps on about the treatment of Muslim minorities in faraway lands but turns a blind eye to the sufferings of Pakistan’s minorities. Every day, we see him firing off a Tweet at India, Europe, and Netflix accusing them of Islamophobia and ordering them to treat Muslims well.

    His ministers are equally coward as him. Shirin Mazari almost never calls out such killings. Last November when an Ahmedi doctor was gunned down, instead of condemning the incident, she tweeted about Indian Muslim minority.

    As you have said, this government is the worst people have seen. It is all about gimmicks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    “Will show Modi government how to treat minorities” - Imran Khan, the most incompetent PM in Pakistan history.

    Has he tweeted yet, or he is still daydreaming about conquering Kashmir?
    Yawn, the first time an Ahmedi or a minority in Pakistan has been killed right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Yawn, the first time an Ahmedi or a minority in Pakistan has been killed right?
    Doesn’t make it any better

    Pakistans treatment of Ahmadis is a black mark on the country. The worst thing is that people have pretty much accepted now and just move on like it’s a regular occurrence

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Yawn, the first time an Ahmedi or a minority in Pakistan has been killed right?
    Imran, the self-appointed messiah claimed that he will show Modi government how to treat minorities. What has he done over the last 2.5 years to address the plight of Ahmadis?

    What stops him from at least condemning these killings on Twitter?

    First, PTI supporters hyped him up with the tabdeeli rhetoric and now that he has failed with flying colors to deliver the tabdeeli that he promised, they try to defend him by stating that things weren’t great before him either. How ridiculous is that?

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    What do you expect in a country where the PM himself openly treats Ahmedis as dirt ? If kids see their beloved cricketer idol behave in this way, they will look to mimic his ethics.


    John 3:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomaskutty View Post
    What do you expect in a country where the PM himself openly treats Ahmedis as dirt ? If kids see their beloved cricketer idol behave in this way, they will look to mimic his ethics.
    Based on what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Based on what?
    He kicked out all the Ahmadi members in his cabinet.


    John 3:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    “Will show Modi government how to treat minorities” - Imran Khan, the most incompetent PM in Pakistan history.

    Has he tweeted yet, or he is still daydreaming about conquering Kashmir?
    I think there is not much difference in outlook of the current BJP government in India and current PTI government in Pakistan. They are both indifferent to any miserable treatment of minorities . However the key difference is in terms of branding where current BJP govt seems deliberately brands himself as indifferent to any communal incident to paint an image opposed to appeasement while severely compromising on constitutional responsibility while PTI govt comes with some cliched goodwill dialogues doing almost nothing. When it comes to real action on ground which is to prosecute the perpetrators and set precedence, both governments have not done anything significant.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomaskutty View Post
    He kicked out all the Ahmadi members in his cabinet.
    Who were?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RajBan View Post
    I think there is not much difference in outlook of the current BJP government in India and current PTI government in Pakistan. They are both indifferent to any miserable treatment of minorities . However the key difference is in terms of branding where current BJP govt seems deliberately brands himself as indifferent to any communal incident to paint an image opposed to appeasement while severely compromising on constitutional responsibility while PTI govt comes with some cliched goodwill dialogues doing almost nothing. When it comes to real action on ground which is to prosecute the perpetrators and set precedence, both governments have not done anything significant.
    The difference is that the BJP government has full control of the foreign policy and strategic affairs. The Indian army chief is subservient to Modi.

    In Pakistan, the PTI government has no control on the foreign policy and strategic affairs. Our foreign minister, the fake pir, reads from the script provided by the GHQ and the defense minister, Pervez Khattak, is nowhere to be seen.

    Imran himself is subservient to the COAS and reads from the script that is provided to him. He is only allow to make administration decisions and look after the economy while the GHQ controls the foreign policy and strategic matters.

    The Indian army chief office changed personnel without any controversy while in Pakistan, the constitution had to be amended because the incumbent COAS was too desperate to hold onto power.

    Imran previously claimed that generals did not get extensions even during WWII because it strengthens the individuals and weakens the institutions. However, when his boss ordered him to give him an extension, he obliged.

    Same goes for other parties as well. They all know which boots need polishing. PMLN amidst all their anti-army rhetoric were happy to sign on the constitutional amendment because it allowed Nawaz to leave prison and go to London much to the humiliation of Imran and PTI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RajBan View Post
    I think there is not much difference in outlook of the current BJP government in India and current PTI government in Pakistan. They are both indifferent to any miserable treatment of minorities . However the key difference is in terms of branding where current BJP govt seems deliberately brands himself as indifferent to any communal incident to paint an image opposed to appeasement while severely compromising on constitutional responsibility while PTI govt comes with some cliched goodwill dialogues doing almost nothing. When it comes to real action on ground which is to prosecute the perpetrators and set precedence, both governments have not done anything significant.
    Apart from what the above poster has mentioned regarding the civilian government being a mere rubber stamp, there is one more difference between Modi and IK.

    Modi is a strong-willed, bold and astute leader who does not succumb to pressure and does not take a U-turn every second.Modi is uncompromising on his principles and policies come what may. On the contrary, IK is a meek leader who has a jelly spine and wilts at the slightest pressure. IK is simply not a man of his words. This is another key difference between the two.

    Modi is a political giant who is deeply respected and taken seriously by the international community while Imran is known world wide for his hypocrisy and U-turns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    Apart from what the above poster has mentioned regarding the civilian government being a mere rubber stamp, there is one more difference between Modi and IK.

    Modi is a strong-willed, bold and astute leader who does not succumb to pressure and does not take a U-turn every second.Modi is uncompromising on his principles and policies come what may. On the contrary, IK is a meek leader who has a jelly spine and wilts at the slightest pressure. IK is simply not a man of his words. This is another key difference between the two.

    Modi is a political giant who is deeply respected and taken seriously by the international community while Imran is known world wide for his hypocrisy and U-turns.
    Totally agree. Imran as a politician doesn’t hold a candle to Modi.

    Modi is tyrannical but at least he is a proper leader whose words and views carry importance in the international arena.

    Imran made a thunderous speech in UNGA and what happened? Nothing. No one paid attention to him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Who were?
    That Ahmadi economist who IK told to buzz off and never come back, after backlash from religious outfits. I am sure you use Google to find out his name.


    John 3:16


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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    Apart from what the above poster has mentioned regarding the civilian government being a mere rubber stamp, there is one more difference between Modi and IK.

    Modi is a strong-willed, bold and astute leader who does not succumb to pressure and does not take a U-turn every second.Modi is uncompromising on his principles and policies come what may. On the contrary, IK is a meek leader who has a jelly spine and wilts at the slightest pressure. IK is simply not a man of his words. This is another key difference between the two.

    Modi is a political giant who is deeply respected and taken seriously by the international community while Imran is known world wide for his hypocrisy and U-turns.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Totally agree. Imran as a politician doesn’t hold a candle to Modi.

    Modi is tyrannical but at least he is a proper leader whose words and views carry importance in the international arena.

    Imran made a thunderous speech in UNGA and what happened? Nothing. No one paid attention to him.
    Thanks for confirming what most of us already knew about your contributions to this site. Should probably bookmark this thread for reference. Other than that carry on and enjoy the discussion.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

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    Reading this thread, the anti Imran agenda is quite clear. Qadiyanis have long been targeted by the radical elements of Pakistan’s society. It’s no different than extremist Hindus burning Muslims in India under Modi’s chief ministership.
    This is one incidence. Shameful and sad as it is, how can one compare this to massive Muslim killings in India and draw not only parallels but use it to assert Modi is a better politician than Imran?

    We need more Dara to suggest that radical sentiment and extremism is growing more under Imran than it did under previous governments.. without it, this is pretty much hearsay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    Reading this thread, the anti Imran agenda is quite clear. Qadiyanis have long been targeted by the radical elements of Pakistan’s society. It’s no different than extremist Hindus burning Muslims in India under Modi’s chief ministership.
    This is one incidence. Shameful and sad as it is, how can one compare this to massive Muslim killings in India and draw not only parallels but use it to assert Modi is a better politician than Imran?

    We need more Dara to suggest that radical sentiment and extremism is growing more under Imran than it did under previous governments.. without it, this is pretty much hearsay.
    Of course people are showing agenda. Treatment of Ahmadis has been terrible no matter who is at the helm. And despite whatever we say, right now as a community, Ahmadis definitely have it worse in Pakistan than an average Muslim does in India. That is beyond debate. [and it doesn’t mean that India is a great place for Muslims or anything, just on a comparison basis]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    Reading this thread, the anti Imran agenda is quite clear. Qadiyanis have long been targeted by the radical elements of Pakistan’s society. It’s no different than extremist Hindus burning Muslims in India under Modi’s chief ministership.
    This is one incidence. Shameful and sad as it is, how can one compare this to massive Muslim killings in India and draw not only parallels but use it to assert Modi is a better politician than Imran?

    We need more Dara to suggest that radical sentiment and extremism is growing more under Imran than it did under previous governments.. without it, this is pretty much hearsay.
    For your information, it seems to me you do not really follow the events in Pakistan. This is not a one-off incident. There is widespread and systematic killing of Ahmedis.

    Why do we always have to bring India into such discussions? Why can’t we look at our problems as they are and not by comparing them to other countries? These are our own problems and we need to take ownership.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    The difference is that the BJP government has full control of the foreign policy and strategic affairs. The Indian army chief is subservient to Modi.

    In Pakistan, the PTI government has no control on the foreign policy and strategic affairs. Our foreign minister, the fake pir, reads from the script provided by the GHQ and the defense minister, Pervez Khattak, is nowhere to be seen.

    Imran himself is subservient to the COAS and reads from the script that is provided to him. He is only allow to make administration decisions and look after the economy while the GHQ controls the foreign policy and strategic matters.

    The Indian army chief office changed personnel without any controversy while in Pakistan, the constitution had to be amended because the incumbent COAS was too desperate to hold onto power.

    Imran previously claimed that generals did not get extensions even during WWII because it strengthens the individuals and weakens the institutions. However, when his boss ordered him to give him an extension, he obliged.

    Same goes for other parties as well. They all know which boots need polishing. PMLN amidst all their anti-army rhetoric were happy to sign on the constitutional amendment because it allowed Nawaz to leave prison and go to London much to the humiliation of Imran and PTI.
    That my friend is a more fundamental subject for Pakistan, but I as an Indian will refrain from talking about it as it puts several posters on the defensive and relegates the discussion to Imran vs Sharif(if raised by Pakistani) or Imran vs Modi(if raised by Indian) or Imran vs leadership of other Islamic countries( raised by anybody else). I will just say this it is not just Imran, the previous civilian leaders who came to power in Pakistan in last 3 decades had approval and backing from the establishment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomaskutty View Post
    That Ahmadi economist who IK told to buzz off and never come back, after backlash from religious outfits. I am sure you use Google to find out his name.
    Which cabinet position did he hold?

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    He could have asked the Ahmadi Doctor to move to a different part of the country instead of shooting him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    Of course people are showing agenda. Treatment of Ahmadis has been terrible no matter who is at the helm. And despite whatever we say, right now as a community, Ahmadis definitely have it worse in Pakistan than an average Muslim does in India. That is beyond debate. [and it doesn’t mean that India is a great place for Muslims or anything, just on a comparison basis]
    You seem clueless with these apples to oranges comparisons.

    Killing Ahmadis in a Pakistan is not like Hindus killing Muslims in India.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    He could have asked the Ahmadi Doctor to move to a different part of the country instead of shooting him.
    But why?

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    Gunning down your own doctors, might as well get the Molvies to provide all the treatments as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    You seem clueless with these apples to oranges comparisons.

    Killing Ahmadis in a Pakistan is not like Hindus killing Muslims in India.
    Yea it’s worse

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    Ugh the Modi bootlicking is a bit cringe here. Though I agree that IK's statement of 'teaching India how to treat minorities' or whatever is laughable.

    And certainly Ahmadis in Pakistan have it worse than Muslims in India, as they can't legally call themselves Muslims, aren't allowed to propagate their sect, are constantly referred to as a pejorative in 'Qadiani', aren't allowed to worship in Mosques, aren't allowed to perform azaan, can't read Quran in public and can't even use religious greetings. This is probably not even an exhaustive list. There will be the regular apologists, but this is not acceptable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubs View Post
    Ugh the Modi bootlicking is a bit cringe here. Though I agree that IK's statement of 'teaching India how to treat minorities' or whatever is laughable.

    And certainly Ahmadis in Pakistan have it worse than Muslims in India, as they can't legally call themselves Muslims, aren't allowed to propagate their sect, are constantly referred to as a pejorative in 'Qadiani', aren't allowed to worship in Mosques, aren't allowed to perform azaan, can't read Quran in public and can't even use religious greetings. This is probably not even an exhaustive list. There will be the regular apologists, but this is not acceptable.
    how is it pejorative. I thought ahmadi and qadiani are interchangeable?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RajBan View Post
    That my friend is a more fundamental subject for Pakistan, but I as an Indian will refrain from talking about it as it puts several posters on the defensive and relegates the discussion to Imran vs Sharif(if raised by Pakistani) or Imran vs Modi(if raised by Indian) or Imran vs leadership of other Islamic countries( raised by anybody else). I will just say this it is not just Imran, the previous civilian leaders who came to power in Pakistan in last 3 decades had approval and backing from the establishment.
    It has nothing to do with this thread. However feel free to comment on those other threads that discuss that topic or are related to it in someway, the majority of us wont mind an Indian talking about those issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomaskutty View Post
    He kicked out all the Ahmadi members in his cabinet.
    No he did not. He wanted to appoint his as an economic advisor, but the other political parties started doing politics on it. And im not only talking about the religious ones.

    After the entire opposition parties except PPP in the Senate Tuesday submitted a call attention notice in the Senate Secretariat raising objections over the appointment of a member of the minority community in the Economic Advisory Council (EAC), Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf defended the appointment.
    https://nation.com.pk/05-Sep-2018/go...gets-atif-mian

    And even PPP did not support the appointee. They stayed silent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    Not happening. Let alone punishing the perpetrators, our government, PM and ministers do not even condemn such barbarity. Too fearful of the right wing.
    The article you posted said this

    Police said that the attacker, a 16-year-old youth, was arrested and a pistol used in the murder was also recovered from his possession.
    If he is released from jail then complain, but what else can the govt do but arrest and prosecute him?

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    Some shameless people are trying to politicize a murder of a innocent man out of hate for Imran Khan.

    Ahmadis are suffering real injustice Pakistan.

    The Second Amendment to the Constitution of Pakistan states that they are not Muslim. Then thanks to Zia we have Ordinance XX, which states

    Any person of the Qadiani group or the Lahori group (who call themselves 'Ahmadis' or by any other name), who directly or indirectly, poses himself as a Muslim, or calls, or refers to, his faith as Islam, or preaches or propagates his faith, or invites others to accept his faith, by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representations, or in any manner whatsoever outrages the religious feelings of Muslims shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years and shall also be liable to fine.

    How many people support the repeal of the Second Amendment? The founding fathers of Pakistan considered Ahmadis Muslim, who are we to say they are not? Thats the real issue, the cause of all this. To appease Mullahs they were declared Kaafirs.

    From 1947 to 1973 they were Muslims, Muslims who supported the Pakistan Movement, which the Mullahs did not, and this is the treatment they get. We should be ashamed of these laws that exist. Instead the only time we talk about Ahmadis is when two bit hustlers bring it up for to bash a politician they dont like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    The article you posted said this



    If he is released from jail then complain, but what else can the govt do but arrest and prosecute him?
    This is the exception rather than the norm. An arrest happens once in a blue moon. Almost all killers are never arrested.

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    Qadyani and Mirzai are both slurs. Ahmedi is the correct word to use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadeemp View Post
    Qadyani and Mirzai are both slurs. Ahmedi is the correct word to use.
    That way deobani and barelwi is also a slur, as it denotes the location, as does qadiani. Interesting, that all three in india, i am yet to visit qadian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    That way deobani and barelwi is also a slur, as it denotes the location, as does qadiani. Interesting, that all three in india, i am yet to visit qadian.
    N word is derived from "color" in spanish
    It's still a slur-slurs aren't as simplistic as you are making than sound

    Meaning change over time...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    It has nothing to do with this thread. However feel free to comment on those other threads that discuss that topic or are related to it in someway, the majority of us wont mind an Indian talking about those issues.
    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Which cabinet position did he hold?
    The fact that you are more concerned about the technicalities of this case than the act of religious discrimination committed by IK and PTI is far more concerning about your mindset.

    You also need to accept IK was also behind Misbah's appointment as Head Coach and Chief Selector.

    Just make peace with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    The fact that you are more concerned about the technicalities of this case than the act of religious discrimination committed by IK and PTI is far more concerning about your mindset.

    You also need to accept IK was also behind Misbah's appointment as Head Coach and Chief Selector.

    Just make peace with it.
    Most of posts were deleted so you didnt get the full context. He TOLD a deliberate lie as the Hindutuva do and i corrected him. Its the reason he didnt come back and just to repeat i am against violence against all minority communities. I dont accept the Qadyanis( and the Qadyanis dont accept me either) are Muslim but they need to be protected like all other PKs.
    As far as IK and the Misbah is concerned, so what if he did. I am not sure why its such a big issue, IK is human and makes mistakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    Some shameless people are trying to politicize a murder of a innocent man out of hate for Imran Khan.

    Ahmadis are suffering real injustice Pakistan.

    The Second Amendment to the Constitution of Pakistan states that they are not Muslim. Then thanks to Zia we have Ordinance XX, which states




    How many people support the repeal of the Second Amendment? The founding fathers of Pakistan considered Ahmadis Muslim, who are we to say they are not? Thats the real issue, the cause of all this. To appease Mullahs they were declared Kaafirs.

    From 1947 to 1973 they were Muslims, Muslims who supported the Pakistan Movement, which the Mullahs did not, and this is the treatment they get. We should be ashamed of these laws that exist. Instead the only time we talk about Ahmadis is when two bit hustlers bring it up for to bash a politician they dont like.
    Government gets blame for the lack of security for its citizens. Imran Khan's Nizam must be criticized as he is the PM of the country. He has the power to repeal the laws against Ahmadis. If he does not, then he is also a part of the brigade that is causing genocide of Ahmadis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    Government gets blame for the lack of security for its citizens. Imran Khan's Nizam must be criticized as he is the PM of the country. He has the power to repeal the laws against Ahmadis. If he does not, then he is also a part of the brigade that is causing genocide of Ahmadis.
    Its difficult when 99% of the population do not think Ahmedis are Muslims. Plus, it was Bhutto who started this mess. The fake liberals of Pakistan will forget this important fact. Geo Bhutto.

    Plus, Ahmedis are also not innocent either. Ask people who leave this jamaat of how they are treated and what they have to face. I am not saying that they should face violence.
    Last edited by King-Misbah; 3rd March 2021 at 20:56.

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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Misbah View Post
    Its difficult when 99% of the population do not think Ahmedis are Muslims. Plus, it was Bhutto who started this mess. The fake liberals of Pakistan will forget this important fact. Geo Bhutto.

    Plus, Ahmedis are also not innocent either. Ask people who leave this jamaat of how they are treated and what they have to face. I am not saying that they should face violence.
    Yes started by bhutto after tremendous pressure from the right wing mullahs to do it. Ahmed are not innocent? I am sure they face the same as Sunnis and Shias

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadeemp View Post
    Yes started by bhutto after tremendous pressure from the right wing mullahs to do it. Ahmed are not innocent? I am sure they face the same as Sunnis and Shias
    Please also tell us who these mullahs were, I can make a start for you, Maulana Mufti Mehmood (headed the opposition on this matter). He is the father of the fake liberals darling maulana diesel.

    Actually the trouble accelerated when Ahmedis attacked a train carrying IJT students with violance. The rest is history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Misbah View Post
    Its difficult when 99% of the population do not think Ahmedis are Muslims. Plus, it was Bhutto who started this mess. The fake liberals of Pakistan will forget this important fact. Geo Bhutto.

    Plus, Ahmedis are also not innocent either. Ask people who leave this jamaat of how they are treated and what they have to face. I am not saying that they should face violence.
    Every former PM and future PM's of Pakistan can also give the same excuse that you are talking about Imran Khan.

    Imran may not be able to change the attitude of 99% of Muslims regarding Ahmedis. But putting the Law on the paper will be a start that prohibits the discrimination. If the law itself discriminates, then there is no hope for Ahmedis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    Every former PM and future PM's of Pakistan can also give the same excuse that you are talking about Imran Khan.

    Imran may not be able to change the attitude of 99% of Muslims regarding Ahmedis. But putting the Law on the paper will be a start that prohibits the discrimination. If the law itself discriminates, then there is no hope for Ahmedis.
    You have to be realistic, it is just not possible and there will be chaos in the country. Only hope is people getting educated so they can atleast be more tolerant. The issue is more deep, the Ahmedis also are involved in violence. A simple Youtube video shows this.

    Its just funny that the people who are moaning now are the same people who glorify Bhutto and the fake maulvis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Misbah View Post
    You have to be realistic, it is just not possible and there will be chaos in the country. Only hope is people getting educated so they can atleast be more tolerant. The issue is more deep, the Ahmedis also are involved in violence. A simple Youtube video shows this.

    Its just funny that the people who are moaning now are the same people who glorify Bhutto and the fake maulvis.
    Bowing down to clerics means empowering them. Things will only get bad by continuing the discriminatory laws. I am sure if Pak Army wants, they can repeal those laws.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    Bowing down to clerics means empowering them. Things will only get bad by continuing the discriminatory laws. I am sure if Pak Army wants, they can repeal those laws.
    We bow to them for not just but a lot of other crap in our country unfortunately. They control the narrative, the masses and emotionally hold everyone hostage. Its unrealistic to expect Imran can wave a wand and somehow all this will disappear. It will be political suicide to say "Stop it". He is already labelled a jew and this and that.

    You ask him to do that and you risk handing the country back to the dogs in PML-N and PPP. And watch them also do nothing when more Ahmedis get killed.

    Thats just the reality of the situation.


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    Quote Originally Posted by CricketCartoons View Post
    how is it pejorative. I thought ahmadi and qadiani are interchangeable?
    It definitely is used as a pejorative, ask anyone who doesn't hate them and they'll agree. I don't think the etymology of the word is derogatory, but it has been used as a slur and derogatory remark for a long time now. Do you take issue with anything else I said, though?

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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Misbah View Post
    Its difficult when 99% of the population do not think Ahmedis are Muslims. Plus, it was Bhutto who started this mess. The fake liberals of Pakistan will forget this important fact. Geo Bhutto.

    Plus, Ahmedis are also not innocent either. Ask people who leave this jamaat of how they are treated and what they have to face. I am not saying that they should face violence.
    People who leave the Jamaat...enlighten me buddy, what do they have to face?

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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Misbah View Post
    Its difficult when 99% of the population do not think Ahmedis are Muslims. Plus, it was Bhutto who started this mess. The fake liberals of Pakistan will forget this important fact. Geo Bhutto.

    Plus, Ahmedis are also not innocent either. Ask people who leave this jamaat of how they are treated and what they have to face. I am not saying that they should face violence.
    Bhutto did not start this mess. The first riot against Ahmadis took place in 1952! He took this step and others such as banning alcohol and closing night clubs and making Friday a public holiday in the hope the right wing mullahs would stop burning the country down. Alas little did he know the stomach of a mullah is never satisfied. Give an inch and they will ask for a mile.

    Also what do they face? Some family backlash? Ostracize at max. That’s pretty light in context of others
    Last edited by Slog; 4th March 2021 at 06:25.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    Every former PM and future PM's of Pakistan can also give the same excuse that you are talking about Imran Khan.

    Imran may not be able to change the attitude of 99% of Muslims regarding Ahmedis. But putting the Law on the paper will be a start that prohibits the discrimination. If the law itself discriminates, then there is no hope for Ahmedis.
    It’s a democracy. In a democracy you can’t put a law which 90% of the country will be against. It will never pass.

    The only solution is if it gets sorted during a military dictatorship

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    Bhutto did not start this mess. The first riot against Ahmadis took place in 1952! He took this step and others such as banning alcohol and closing night clubs and making Friday a public holiday in the hope the right wing mullahs would stop burning the country down. Alas little did he know the stomach of a mullah is never satisfied. Give an inch and they will ask for a mile.

    Also what do they face? Some family backlash? Ostracize at max. That’s pretty light in context of others
    What law was there against Ahmadis before Bhutto? He caved into Mullahs who opposed the creation of Pakistan against a sect that had supported the Pakistan movement. Jinnah would never have caved. Bhutto gets the blame for starting this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    Government gets blame for the lack of security for its citizens. Imran Khan's Nizam must be criticized as he is the PM of the country. He has the power to repeal the laws against Ahmadis. If he does not, then he is also a part of the brigade that is causing genocide of Ahmadis.
    How does he provide security for a random killing? This is not a militant organization that did this.

    Also the laws did not cause this shooting. The KPK government arrested the killer, and now hopefully they prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    We bow to them for not just but a lot of other crap in our country unfortunately. They control the narrative, the masses and emotionally hold everyone hostage. Its unrealistic to expect Imran can wave a wand and somehow all this will disappear. It will be political suicide to say "Stop it". He is already labelled a jew and this and that.

    You ask him to do that and you risk handing the country back to the dogs in PML-N and PPP. And watch them also do nothing when more Ahmedis get killed.

    Thats just the reality of the situation.
    Its more because the opposition will do politics on it. Mullahs dont have much electoral power. If PML N, PPP, and other other parties backed the Atif Mian appointment he would never have been removed.

    And if they work together then slowly you can remove the Zia era laws.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    No he did not. He wanted to appoint his as an economic advisor, but the other political parties started doing politics on it. And im not only talking about the religious ones.
    At the end of the day, Imran removed this person from his council solely because of his religion .. he made the final decision. Just like he and his party refused to pass laws that give non muslims equal rights to that of muslims. This is nothing but religious bigotry and discrimination.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomaskutty View Post
    At the end of the day, Imran removed this person from his council solely because of his religion .. he made the final decision. Just like he and his party refused to pass laws that give non muslims equal rights to that of muslims. This is nothing but religious bigotry and discrimination.
    He caved into pressure, however surely the others doing politics on it deserve the blame. Not the one who was trying to appoint him. He gave an interview when asked about this, and he said short answer is you cant pick your battles at once.

    Also Ahmadis are a Muslim sect. What law is there in Pakistan that gives Muslims more rights than non Muslims (Hindus, Christians, etc)? If your answer is not being able to be President, sure that is discrimination, but so is giving religious minorities quotas in parliament, jobs, etc. I think that's a better deal for them to get the quota, then to be able to be a figure head President.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    He caved into pressure, however surely the others doing politics on it deserve the blame. Not the one who was trying to appoint him. He gave an interview when asked about this, and he said short answer is you cant pick your battles at once.

    Also Ahmadis are a Muslim sect. What law is there in Pakistan that gives Muslims more rights than non Muslims (Hindus, Christians, etc)? If your answer is not being able to be President, sure that is discrimination, but so is giving religious minorities quotas in parliament, jobs, etc. I think that's a better deal for them to get the quota, then to be able to be a figure head President.
    No offence, but you're talking like some of the upper caste savarna liberals of India who use this logic to deny reservation to the Dalits.

    You can provide "positive affirmation" to the backward classes without removing another right from them and say "you don't get this but cheer up, you get this, surely it's a better deal for you". That's patronising.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    He caved into pressure, however surely the others doing politics on it deserve the blame. Not the one who was trying to appoint him. He gave an interview when asked about this, and he said short answer is you cant pick your battles at once.

    A person who says racist things to please his base is just as dangerous an actual racist. From what I've observed, he hasn't picked a single worthy battle, let alone all at once. Even something as obvious and necessary as enacting FATF reforms is impossible for him.


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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    No offence, but you're talking like some of the upper caste savarna liberals of India who use this logic to deny reservation to the Dalits.

    You can provide "positive affirmation" to the backward classes without removing another right from them and say "you don't get this but cheer up, you get this, surely it's a better deal for you". That's patronising.
    If it was up to me that law would not exist (or any religious law), and i have no problem with the parliament quota for religious minorities.

    However the main purpose of the point was compared to Ahmadis officially on the "books", non Muslims are not really facing discrimination. In actuality its different, so the quotas are good, but its not the end of the world that a non Muslim cant be a head of state in a country thats 97% Muslim.

    By talking about that law we are ignoring more serious discrimination that is being faced by Ahmadis. They legally cant call themselves Muslim, cant say azaan legally, cant cite Islamic sciptures on their graves legally, etc.

    And to make things worse the religious parties that pressurized the Bhutto government to declare them non Muslim opposed the creation of Pakistan, which the Ahmadis supported. And Zia as he lacked a political base allied with these same Mullahs to pass the draconian Ordinance XX.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomaskutty View Post
    A person who says racist things to please his base is just as dangerous an actual racist. From what I've observed, he hasn't picked a single worthy battle, let alone all at once. Even something as obvious and necessary as enacting FATF reforms is impossible for him.
    In this case the base did not support it, and were disappointed he caved. Hopefully as he gets stronger politically this wont happen again.

    And the govt has completed 90% of the steps required by FATF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    How does he provide security for a random killing? This is not a militant organization that did this.

    Also the laws did not cause this shooting. The KPK government arrested the killer, and now hopefully they prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law.
    The problem is that our PM and our government never come out to condemn barbarity against minorities because they lack spine. Immy has all the time to harp on about treatment of Muslims in faraway lands but he has never condemned or even tweeted against the violence and injustice our Ahmedis, Hindus and Christians face every day!

    And, the government is very afraid of taking any concrete steps against hate preachers and extremists because they fear the right wing. Our teachers are telling kids to behead infidels and blasphemers and our clerics are telling worshippers to gun down Ahmedis and expel nob-Muslims from Pakistan. But, we never see any arrests. So, the bucks stops at the government. If PM had such a jelly spine, why did he sign up for the job?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomaskutty View Post
    A person who says racist things to please his base is just as dangerous an actual racist. From what I've observed, he hasn't picked a single worthy battle, let alone all at once. Even something as obvious and necessary as enacting FATF reforms is impossible for him.
    Yea opening up Kartarpur to Indian Sikhs after 70 years isn’t a worthy battle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomaskutty View Post
    A person who says racist things to please his base is just as dangerous an actual racist. From what I've observed, he hasn't picked a single worthy battle, let alone all at once. Even something as obvious and necessary as enacting FATF reforms is impossible for him.
    I am still waiting for your reply on those cabinet Ministers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    It’s a democracy. In a democracy you can’t put a law which 90% of the country will be against. It will never pass.

    The only solution is if it gets sorted during a military dictatorship
    Or people move away from religion. However, in a country which is built on a religious foundation, that is asking a lot. There are plenty of so called liberals on here who are making political capital out of this to score points though, which shows you the scale of the problem. For them every death of an Ahmadi is a cause for celebration.

    At least in the region itself it seems the medic was a popular figure and the locals protected him. There will always be some impressionable person who can be manipulated into acts of terror, but the majority don't believe in it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Or people move away from religion. However, in a country which is built on a religious foundation, that is asking a lot. There are plenty of so called liberals on here who are making political capital out of this to score points though, which shows you the scale of the problem. For them every death of an Ahmadi is a cause for celebration.

    At least in the region itself it seems the medic was a popular figure and the locals protected him. There will always be some impressionable person who can be manipulated into acts of terror, but the majority don't believe in it.
    Pretty silly thing to say. The only ones celebrating the deaths are the fundamentalists, and the ones who are indifferent are the so-called moderates. When those 'so-called liberals' point out that Ahmadis aren't allowed to pray in a (mainstream) mosque, call themselves Muslim by law, preach their sect, give salaam, read the Quran in public, etc, is this just baseless virtue signalling? Or are they just trying to paint Pakistan in a bad light? Or, and this is a crazy thought, they may just be highlighting the injustice that Ahmadis face and see the hypocrisy when there is outrage when Muslims are attacked in India (and that outrage is 100% warranted)?

    And let's not forget, while Muslims are treated badly in India, it is vigilante violence. Perhaps you can make a case for the higher-ups turning a blind eye to it, I would likely agree there, but there isn't anything enshrined in law which puts places restrictions on Muslims in India, like there are for Ahmadis in Pakistan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubs View Post
    Pretty silly thing to say. The only ones celebrating the deaths are the fundamentalists, and the ones who are indifferent are the so-called moderates. When those 'so-called liberals' point out that Ahmadis aren't allowed to pray in a (mainstream) mosque, call themselves Muslim by law, preach their sect, give salaam, read the Quran in public, etc, is this just baseless virtue signalling? Or are they just trying to paint Pakistan in a bad light? Or, and this is a crazy thought, they may just be highlighting the injustice that Ahmadis face and see the hypocrisy when there is outrage when Muslims are attacked in India (and that outrage is 100% warranted)?

    And let's not forget, while Muslims are treated badly in India, it is vigilante violence. Perhaps you can make a case for the higher-ups turning a blind eye to it, I would likely agree there, but there isn't anything enshrined in law which puts places restrictions on Muslims in India, like there are for Ahmadis in Pakistan.
    I was pretty clear that I was talking about those who are making political capital out of it - I mean I said it right there in the sentence, the part you didn't bold. It's not about Imran Khan, or Bhutto, or Sharif. It runs deeper in Pakistani society than that. If you don't get that, then don't quote me and start talking about something else.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    I was pretty clear that I was talking about those who are making political capital out of it - I mean I said it right there in the sentence, the part you didn't bold. It's not about Imran Khan, or Bhutto, or Sharif. It runs deeper in Pakistani society than that. If you don't get that, then don't quote me and start talking about something else.
    There's undeniably a political component. I like IK, but he shouldn't have backed out of Atif Mian's appointment just because of pressure from others. An fabulous economist was lost because the government bowed down to the pressure of the jahil. It has set the precedent now that Ahmadi justice isn't worth fighting for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Misbah View Post
    Its difficult when 99% of the population do not think Ahmedis are Muslims. Plus, it was Bhutto who started this mess. The fake liberals of Pakistan will forget this important fact. Geo Bhutto.

    Plus, Ahmedis are also not innocent either. Ask people who leave this jamaat of how they are treated and what they have to face. I am not saying that they should face violence.
    For Ahmedis also, those other Muslims are disbelievers.


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