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  1. #1
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    Saudi health minister: COVID-19 vaccine will be prerequisite for Hajj

    DUBAI: Saudi Arabia’s health minister said in a statement that receiving a coronavirus vaccine will be a prerequisite for pilgrims, Arabic daily Okaz reported.

    Tawfiq Al-Rabiah said authorities must prepare appropriate manpower in the health sector in Makkah and Al-Madinah ahead of the annual Islamic pilgrimage or Hajj, the report added.

    Based on those preparations, “make the coronavirus vaccine a prerequisite for those who would like to perform Hajj,” Okaz quoted Al-Rabiah.
    https://www.arabnews.com/node/1818441/saudi-arabia

    The vaccine will not stop transmission.

    Hope the Hajj is back to normal this year. So many are missing out.

    I wont take the vaccine but Ive peformed Hajj already so it's fine.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  2. #2
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    Is this only for hajj or is it for umrah as well?

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    Fantastic news. Great job by the Saudis, making their ancestors during the Golden Age proud, I'm sure.

    No one said vaccines will stop transmission, but they greatly reduce it. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00502-w

    Science proving you wrong once again.

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    Everything considered, a great decision.

    Last thing we need is massive spike right after Hajj month.

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    Sensible decision. I am due to have it in a few weeks and IA it keeps me and others around me safe.

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    good decision. i will be taking the vaccine but no haj for me.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubs View Post
    Fantastic news. Great job by the Saudis, making their ancestors during the Golden Age proud, I'm sure.

    No one said vaccines will stop transmission, but they greatly reduce it. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00502-w

    Science proving you wrong once again.
    College hasnt told you what science is really saying.



    It was also “able to evade 25-61 per cent of protective immunity elicited by previous infection” with another variant, the researchers found, a sign that current vaccines could also be less effective against it.
    https://www.ft.com/content/51cf718d-...d-dd36c1b1c5ea

    You wont be going to Hajj but maybe your family will.

    Viruses mutate making vaccines less and less effective, meaning this move wont stop transmission when you have millions arriving from around the world.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  8. #8
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    Good. Those who refuse to take the vaccine and believe in conspiracy theories and pseudo-science should not be allowed to enter Saudi Arabia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    College hasnt told you what science is really saying.



    https://www.ft.com/content/51cf718d-...d-dd36c1b1c5ea

    You wont be going to Hajj but maybe your family will.

    Viruses mutate making vaccines less and less effective, meaning this move wont stop transmission when you have millions arriving from around the world.
    Less effective still means it's effective. No educated person has ever claimed that vaccines stop transmissions (which is why you said that). And what you just linked even said that vaccines can work with many other variants, just less effectively. And these new vaccines are easily adaptable to new strains if new vaccines need to be created.

    Very funny that you think you know what science is saying. Please explain, without skipping out on the scientific terminology and nomenclature, why vaccines aren't effective. Spoiler alert: you can't.

    Once again, the Saudis have impressed me. Perhaps they'll return to their glory days of being amazing scientists.

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    Heh this is futile, in a lot of countries it's not hard at all to obtain a doctors letter or a "covid certificate", this is just going to create a black market for people to falsify documents - a market that has always existed so if anything they're just creating one more requirement that might slightly delay the visa process but it's not a hindrance at all. This can only be effective if they require an antibody test for verification but that seems too costly and time consuming so unlikely to happen.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    College is closed atm? The Brazilian variant may reduce the effectivness of a vaccine by a very large percentage. A schoolboy knows viruses mutate, which is why you dont need a flu vaccine to go to Hajj. I never suggusted it didnt reduce the risk. The reduction with 4 million from all over the world will still means hundreds of thousands can be infected. Luckily Muslims wash a lot and many dont hug others or get too close.

    P
    Which is precisely why you need vaccines to give the virus much less of a chance to mutate.

    Did you ever stop to think how diseases such as the plague, small pox, polio, tetanus, measles etc are either gone or endemic?

    Do you have any source on why you don't need a flu vaccine for hajj? Your reasoning is your own speculation and probably completely false. The more likely reason is because the flu isn't considered a serious killer disease anymore.

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    I have seen too many die from virus first hand and have already in the last two weeks seen the virus wipe out my friend's immediate family. His sibling who wasn't even old and himself had three young kids. It's an absolute calamity.

    Hajj sees millions so this ruling makes sense. I'd make the same ruling when it comes to travelling to any hotspot.
    Last edited by Pakpak; 3rd March 2021 at 11:47.

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    When i went on hajj many years ago, you had to get a list of vaccines before travelling. Coivd is just another one to add to the list. They dont mess about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsan17 View Post
    Which is precisely why you need vaccines to give the virus much less of a chance to mutate.

    Did you ever stop to think how diseases such as the plague, small pox, polio, tetanus, measles etc are either gone or endemic?

    Do you have any source on why you don't need a flu vaccine for hajj? Your reasoning is your own speculation and probably completely false. The more likely reason is because the flu isn't considered a serious killer disease anymore.
    This virus is not the same polio or small pox. It is similar to the flu, it kills plenty but wont go away and neither will covid. Vaccines for Covid only minimise risk , they will never eradicate it.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    This virus is not the same polio or small pox. It is similar to the flu, it kills plenty but wont go away and neither will covid. Vaccines for Covid only minimise risk , they will never eradicate it.
    So if vaccines minimise risk, why is it a bad thing that it is a requirement for Hajj?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakpak View Post
    I have seen too many die from virus first hand and have already in the last two weeks seen the virus wipe out my friend's immediate family. His sibling who wasn't even old and himself had three young kids. It's an absolute calamity.

    Hajj sees millions so this ruling makes sense. I'd make the same ruling when it comes to travelling to any hotspot.
    They must have had underlying conditions running in the family cause the virus has a 98% survival rate

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubs View Post
    So if vaccines minimise risk, why is it a bad thing that it is a requirement for Hajj?
    I never said it was bad but wrote "
    The vaccine will not stop transmission."

    When you go Hajj you only declare what you have taken, it can be made up by people if they like. There is no way of them checking esp as most nations wont be having vaccine passports.

    I will have a new thread for you soon.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    I never said it was bad but wrote "
    The vaccine will not stop transmission."

    When you go Hajj you only declare what you have taken, it can be made up by people if they like. There is no way of them checking esp as most nations wont be having vaccine passports.

    I will have a new thread for you soon.
    Interesting, you said 'so many are missing out', but then said people can make it up. So, what is the issue then?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    Heh this is futile, in a lot of countries it's not hard at all to obtain a doctors letter or a "covid certificate", this is just going to create a black market for people to falsify documents - a market that has always existed so if anything they're just creating one more requirement that might slightly delay the visa process but it's not a hindrance at all. This can only be effective if they require an antibody test for verification but that seems too costly and time consuming so unlikely to happen.
    Tbh if pepple are going to the lengths of falsifying evidence gor going to Hajj then Hajj probably isn't for them really is it.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    This virus is not the same polio or small pox. It is similar to the flu, it kills plenty but wont go away and neither will covid. Vaccines for Covid only minimise risk , they will never eradicate it.
    It's killing 5-10x the number of people killed by the flu. Can't really be compared to flu. This is after the huge efforts to contain the virus v/s very little efforts to contain the flu.


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    Heh this is futile, in a lot of countries it's not hard at all to obtain a doctors letter or a "covid certificate", this is just going to create a black market for people to falsify documents - a market that has always existed so if anything they're just creating one more requirement that might slightly delay the visa process but it's not a hindrance at all. This can only be effective if they require an antibody test for verification but that seems too costly and time consuming so unlikely to happen.
    Some people, especially Pakistanis who are known all over the world for their dishonesty, will always find loopholes in any system to get their way.

    This arrangement will not be foolproof either, but it will at least prove to be effective to a certain degree. Even if 10% of the people (the actual percentage will be far higher) get vaccinated, it is still much better than no one of very few people getting vaccinated.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    They must have had underlying conditions running in the family cause the virus has a 98% survival rate
    The parents were old the brother was not. And the virus had a second wave in UK which has affected a lot more younger people. It's not only him I've worked in covid wards and have seen deaths in even 52-60 year olds who had no major standing issues. And for people younger it can cause long term damage which we still don't know of yet.
    Last edited by Pakpak; 4th March 2021 at 12:01.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    They must have had underlying conditions running in the family cause the virus has a 98% survival rate
    And a two percent rate according to you is absolutely dangerous. It means in a nation like Pakistan if 2 percent died that would be more than 4 million deaths which is catastrophic.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakpak View Post
    The parents were old the brother was not. And the virus had a second wave in UK which has affected a lot more younger people. It's not only him I've worked in covid wards and have seen deaths in even 52-60 year olds who had no major standing issues. And for people younger it can cause long term damage which we still don't know of yet.
    52-60 year olds aren't exactly young and their immune systems aren't as strong as a 30 year olds, also most people have undiagnosed comorbidities such as diabetes, hypertension, etc We don't know about the long term damage as this virus is new but we also don't know about the long term possible side effects of the vaccines either

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakpak View Post
    And a two percent rate according to you is absolutely dangerous. It means in a nation like Pakistan if 2 percent died that would be more than 4 million deaths which is catastrophic.
    Okay? And the flu has a mortality rate of 0.05% so for a country like Pakistan that would 110,000 deaths!!1 Anyone can extrapolate these stats and fear monger. I'm not downplaying covid and do believe we should all get the vaccine soon but I'm not going give into the media hysteria and let fear control our lives and as Muslims fear is the one thing you should never allow to take control of you.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    52-60 year olds aren't exactly young and their immune systems aren't as strong as a 30 year olds, also most people have undiagnosed comorbidities such as diabetes, hypertension, etc We don't know about the long term damage as this virus is new but we also don't know about the long term possible side effects of the vaccines either
    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    Okay? And the flu has a mortality rate of 0.05% so for a country like Pakistan that would 110,000 deaths!!1 Anyone can extrapolate these stats and fear monger. I'm not downplaying covid and do believe we should all get the vaccine soon but I'm not going give into the media hysteria and let fear control our lives and as Muslims fear is the one thing you should never allow to take control of you.
    Normal flu isn't likely to kill you or cripple your lungs long term.

    There is no side effect of the vaccine that would be as worse as not taking it or the long term damage of the virus.

    Sometimes I feel some of us with medical degrees shouldn't have done it and should have left it to armchair experts like you.

    You're saying you're not downplaying the virus, yet it's because of people like you who use stats like idiots the virus has absolutely destroyed lives. 52 year olds are nothing. And people who have survived have had to use intensive care units in their tens of thousands. You have absolutely no idea how many people survived only after ITU visits. Or how many times we have had wards full with no medical staff because people like to play It easy.

    I always tell myself to never comment on covid threads on PP because of people like you. I'll follow that advice more closely after this post.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Some people, especially Pakistanis who are known all over the world for their dishonesty, will always find loopholes in any system to get their way.
    Can you provide some data to back up this assertion? I find it is mostly Pakistanis themselves who make this claim, but if it is true, that must mean they are being dishonest....so does that mean in reality Pakistanis are in fact usually more honest?


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  28. #28
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    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-from-ramadan

    From the start of Ramadan, only Muslims immunised against Covid-19 will be allowed to perform the umrah pilgrimage, Saudi authorities have said.

    Unlike hajj, the shorter umrah pilgrimage is non-compulsory and can be performed at any time of year.

    The hajj and umrah ministry announced that three categories of people would be considered “immunised”: those who have received two doses of the vaccine; those administered a single dose at least 14 days prior; and people who have recovered from the virus.

    Only those people will be eligible for permits to perform umrah, as well as to attend prayers in the Grand Mosque in the holy city of Mecca.

    It added that the condition also applied for entry into the Prophet’s mosque in the holy city of Medina.

    The ministry said the policy comes into force at the start of Ramadan but it was unclear how long it would last.

    It was also not clear whether the policy, which comes amid a rise in coronavirus infections in the kingdom, would be extended to the annual hajj later this year.

    Saudi Arabia has reported more than 393,000 coronavirus infections and 6,700 deaths from Covid-19.

    The kingdom’s health ministry said it had administered more than 5m coronavirus vaccines, in a country with a population of more than 34 million.

    Last month, King Salman replaced the hajj minister, months after the kingdom hosted the smallest hajj in modern history due to the pandemic.

    Mohammad Benten was relieved from his post and replaced by Essam bin Saeed, according to a royal decree published by official Saudi Press Agency.

    The kingdom hosted the hajj in late July last year. Only 10,000 residents of Saudi Arabia were allowed to take part, compared with 2.5 million Muslims from around the world who participated in 2019. It is unclear how many pilgrims will be allowed to perform the hajj this year.

    According to the pro-government Okaz newspaper, only vaccinated pilgrims are likely to be permitted this year.

    In a relaxation of coronavirus curbs last October, Saudi Arabia opened the Grand Mosque for prayers for the first time in seven months and partly resumed the umrah pilgrimage.

    The umrah usually attracts millions of Muslims from across the globe each year.

    Authorities said the umrah would be allowed to return to full capacity once the threat of the pandemic had abated.


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