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    Joe Biden - "Indian-Americans are taking over the country"

    Indian-Americans are taking over the country, US President Joe Biden said on Thursday, referring to the high number of people from the community getting a place in his administration.

    In less than 50 days of his presidency, Biden has appointed at least 55 Indian-Americans to key leadership positions in his administration ranging from his speech writer to the Nasa, to almost every wing of the government.

    "Indian-of-descent Americans (sic) are taking over the country. You (Swati Mohan), my Vice President (Kamala Harris), my speech writer (Vinay Reddy)," Biden said in a virtual interaction with Nasa scientists who were involved in the historic landing of Perseverance landing at Mars.

    Indian-American scientist Swati Mohan leads the guidance, navigation, and control operations of Nasa's Mars 2020 mission.

    Biden, who was sworn in as the 46th president of the United States on January 20, has created history by appointing at least 55 Indian-Americans to key positions in his administration.

    This does not include Vice President Kamala Harris, which is an elected position, and Neera Tanden, who a day earlier withdrew her nomination from the position of Director of White House Office of Management and Budget.

    Nearly half of them are women and a sizable number of them are working in the White House. So far, the Obama-Biden administration (2009-2017) has the distinction of appointing the largest number of Indian-Americans in any administration. The previous Donald Trump administration was not lagging far behind as it appointed the first ever Indian-American with a cabinet rank and inside the National Security Council.

    This past week, Dr Vivek Murthy testified before a Senate Committee for US Surgeon General and Vanita Gupta is all set to appear for her confirmation hearing for Associate Attorney General Department of Justice.

    "It is impressive to see how many Indian-Americans were ready to go into public service. There have been so many additions since we launched our Government Leaders list last month on Presidents' Day. I am so proud to see our community is going from strength to strength," eminent Indian-American philanthropist and Indiaspora founder M Rangaswami told PTI.


    Full post here: https://www.msn.com/en-ae/news/other...?ocid=msedgntp

    He actually was praising. So many Indian Americans are in position to influence as administrators.
    Why do you think they are successful and what are the positive benefit for India here?

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    The immigrants from India to US, were already middle and upper middle class people. Unlike say Mexicans, the labor class of Indians did not immigrate to the US.

    Then you can add a great value placed on education, family values, and the fact that both Indian men and women work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    The immigrants from India to US, were already middle and upper middle class people. Unlike say Mexicans, the labor class of Indians did not immigrate to the US.

    Then you can add a great value placed on education, family values, and the fact that both Indian men and women work.
    There are lot of labour class in USA. so many cabbies and gas station guys

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    Quote Originally Posted by OMB View Post
    There are lot of labour class in USA. so many cabbies and gas station guys
    I should have said mostly.

    And there is a difference between working at a gas station for minimum wage, and owning it. Gas station owners, as well as other small business owners, make a lot of money. Even more than many white collar professions.
    Last edited by Gharib Aadmi; 5th March 2021 at 13:15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharib Aadmi View Post
    I should have said mostly.

    And there is a difference between working at a gas station for minimum wage, and owning it. Gas station owners, as well as other small business owners, make a lot of money. Even more than many white collar professions.
    Yes i agree. was talking about gas station employees

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    Muhaha and he appointed one as his running mate and Vice President.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

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    Indians jaha jatay hai mulk ka naam roshan kartay hai! Well done!

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    It’s natural. They are decent numbers + came for skilled jobs so naturally this is going to be a step for the next generation. A comparison with Mexican immigrants would not be correct

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    All of Desi community is doing very well in the US for some reason what's good is unlike the Asian American community we are also going to high profile in visible places
    Remember, even Pak-Americans were part of the democratic party think tank but it was a gradual process where one would come and another would show up slowly the number started increasing but Indian Americans just broke in, in huge numbers

    This progress is present in larger society too (which led to these white house positions) in almost every major every board room, company upper management or gov department there's a Pakistani or an Indian American working there

    Since Bangladeshi immigrants are a recent immigrant group we are not seeing it with them but they are doing exactly what other desi groups did 20, 30 years ago so in due time they'll be in the same position Pak/ind Americans are at rn

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    All of Desi community is doing very well in the US for some reason what's good is unlike the Asian American community we are also going to high profile in visible places
    Remember, even Pak-Americans were part of the democratic party think tank but it was a gradual process where one would come and another would show up slowly the number started increasing but Indian Americans just broke in, in huge numbers

    This progress is present in larger society too (which led to these white house positions) in almost every major every board room, company upper management or gov department there's a Pakistani or an Indian American working there

    Since Bangladeshi immigrants are a recent immigrant group we are not seeing it with them but they are doing exactly what other desi groups did 20, 30 years ago so in due time they'll be in the same position Pak/ind Americans are at rn
    Yes this is a success of whole of south east asia . Ise kehte hai "Behati ganga mein haat dhona"

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    Why do Desi Americans do much better than Brit Desis? Is it the case that the ones who go to the US are generally more affluent, less socially conservative? It seems to be the case, but I have no data to back it up.

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    Travelling to the states over the last few decades, I've noticed many highly successful Indian Americans were of so-called 'Low Castes'.
    When chatting to many of them, they say that historically, they were denied opportunities to progress in their homeland in India, but have flourished remarkably in the U S of A.
    There is also a largely successful Indian Guajarati community from East Africa that settled in the USA in the 70's. These people were already well educated and wealthy before they got to the USA.


    Pakistan Cricket: Exciting, Entertaining, Unpredictable, Dangerous and Unique.

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    Entire classes of IITs move to US grad schools. My friends told me that there is even a debate in India that why India spends so much on IITs when all graduates move to US. But seems like with all skill and knowledge transfer back to India over last 50 years this was not brain drain but helped Indian economy and entrepreneurship . Though I have a feeling RSS might not like it as new generation in some cases become liberal, pro human rights and anti hindutuva

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubs View Post
    Why do Desi Americans do much better than Brit Desis? Is it the case that the ones who go to the US are generally more affluent, less socially conservative? It seems to be the case, but I have no data to back it up.
    America allows only qualified people with special skills to come to their country. Europe allows every lallu and panju to come to their country.
    I believe Desis in Europe is akin to Mexicans in America.

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    - Also to note Indians are succeeding in US despite facing country based discrimination and a huge disadvantage in green card allotment.

    - Also its not just because of the numbers. Chinese are even larger in nos in US but pale in comparison when it comes to success at executive levels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    - Also to note Indians are succeeding in US despite facing country based discrimination and a huge disadvantage in green card allotment.

    - Also its not just because of the numbers. Chinese are even larger in nos in US but pale in comparison when it comes to success at executive levels.
    Most of the historical Chinese who came to the US came for blue collar jobs.

    Indians mostly came for academics or IT jobs.

    So can’t compare.

    Indians face no discrimination on the immigration front. They literally have the same rule as any other country.

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    I have said this before, but Indian success is not that evident only because they aren't seen much on screen in the US. It's like the civil service in the UK, most of the bureaucracy and decision making is done in the background, but no one really knows that much about it.

    Perhaps Biden is trying to address this by bringing it to the American public's attention.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    I have said this before, but Indian success is not that evident only because they aren't seen much on screen in the US. It's like the civil service in the UK, most of the bureaucracy and decision making is done in the background, but no one really knows that much about it.

    Perhaps Biden is trying to address this by bringing it to the American public's attention.
    Indians are not visible ?, there's a token guy wearing a turban in virtually every show there is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    Most of the historical Chinese who came to the US came for blue collar jobs.

    Indians mostly came for academics or IT jobs.

    So can’t compare.

    Indians face no discrimination on the immigration front. They literally have the same rule as any other country.
    We do. Other countries get GC based on merit since they never hit the GC country quota caps. Indians are backlogged by 126 years!

    you cant have it both ways - Indians are large in nos and that they dont face per country quota limits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    - Also to note Indians are succeeding in US despite facing country based discrimination and a huge disadvantage in green card allotment.

    - Also its not just because of the numbers. Chinese are even larger in nos in US but pale in comparison when it comes to success at executive levels.
    Honestly everybody knows that at academic level Chinese are way ahead. But career wise Indians do better due to better language, communication, cultural skills. Also in academia the stereotype is Indians are tall talkers and story tellers. I personally know many top professors some of whom are even Indians, who do not prefer Indian grad students. Infact most in demand are South Koreans and Chinese but these star academic performers fail in corporate environment.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    Most of the historical Chinese who came to the US came for blue collar jobs.
    Still zero presence of Chinese at influential positions

    Indians mostly came for academics or IT jobs.
    I dont think so. There are Indian grocery store, hotel, motel, gas station owners, doctors, lawyers, medical professionals etc.

    So can’t compare.

    Indians face no discrimination on the immigration front. They literally have the same rule as any other country.

    We do. Other countries get GC based on merit since they never hit the GC country quota caps. Indians are backlogged by 126 years!

    you cant have it both ways - Indians are large in nos and that they dont face per country quota limits.
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    - Also to note Indians are succeeding in US despite facing country based discrimination and a huge disadvantage in green card allotment.

    - Also its not just because of the numbers. Chinese are even larger in nos in US but pale in comparison when it comes to success at executive levels.
    It’s not discrimination. Indians have abused h1b and green card allotment processes. Thankfully there are checks in place to bottleneck that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wajid View Post
    Honestly everybody knows that at academic level Chinese are way ahead. But career wise Indians do better due to better language, communication, cultural skills. Also in academia the stereotype is Indians are tall talkers and story tellers. I personally know many top professors some of whom are even Indians, who do not prefer Indian grad students. Infact most in demand are South Koreans and Chinese but these star academic performers fail in corporate environment.
    Oh that stereotype! Sorry, I was referring to the stereotype that the president of US was talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wajid View Post
    It’s not discrimination. Indians have abused h1b and green card allotment processes. Thankfully there are checks in place to bottleneck that.
    It is discrimination by definition and by law - discriminating immigrants based on their country of origin and not merit.

    Abused? - worked within the laws. You could argue the laws were dated/inadequate

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    Yes this is a success of whole of south east asia . Ise kehte hai "Behati ganga mein haat dhona"
    You live in the US?
    I doubt Ind-Ame would disagree that Pakistani-Americans are not a successful group...
    What might get people from outside confused is when they hear "Muslim" American they think this is an Arab guy but 90% of the time it's actually a Pakistani guy but unlike Indians, Pakistanis identify themselves as muslims first than Pakistani

    But the most simple way to test my claim
    Just do a simple LinkedIn search if you don't believe me tbh...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    We do. Other countries get GC based on merit since they never hit the GC country quota caps. Indians are backlogged by 126 years!

    you cant have it both ways - Indians are large in nos and that they dont face per country quota limits.
    Indians get as many spots as other countries and fully fill that being one of the few countries to do so. Also Indians rampantly abuse h1b and that has been allowed to let slide for years so the community as a whole can’t have too many complaints with the current system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    You live in the US?
    I doubt Ind-Ame would disagree that Pakistani-Americans are not a successful group...
    What might get people from outside confused is when they hear "Muslim" American they think this is an Arab guy but 90% of the time it's actually a Pakistani guy but unlike Indians, Pakistanis identify themselves as muslims first than Pakistani

    But the most simple way to test my claim
    Just do a simple LinkedIn search if you don't believe me tbh...
    Yes, I have been living USA for the last 19 years. Have seen the best of academia (cutting edge research) to top tech companies in USA. Indians are found everywhere from top to bottom.

    Havent seen many Pakistanis. Though they are easy to identify - they generally dont mingle as well with the local population and stand out. Yes they tend to hide their origin of nationality or atleast passive about it. Indians wear it on their foreheads and socialize/spread their culture while adopting the local.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    Indians get as many spots as other countries and fully fill that being one of the few countries to do so. Also Indians rampantly abuse h1b and that has been allowed to let slide for years so the community as a whole can’t have too many complaints with the current system.
    May be we are getting off topic. It makes no sense to have country based discrimination for merit based immigration. BTW, this is how it is for h1b. employment based GC is no different. Though I can understand why you would agree with the current rules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    All of Desi community is doing very well in the US for some reason what's good is unlike the Asian American community we are also going to high profile in visible places
    Remember, even Pak-Americans were part of the democratic party think tank but it was a gradual process where one would come and another would show up slowly the number started increasing but Indian Americans just broke in, in huge numbers

    This progress is present in larger society too (which led to these white house positions) in almost every major every board room, company upper management or gov department there's a Pakistani or an Indian American working there

    Since Bangladeshi immigrants are a recent immigrant group we are not seeing it with them but they are doing exactly what other desi groups did 20, 30 years ago so in due time they'll be in the same position Pak/ind Americans are at rn
    just to add to my point here

    I remember Howard Stern joking in a show somewhere when the host asked what's changed in NY (he is a new yorker), Howard Stern said Bangladeshis own everything in NY now

    Now he made a joke of course but this is how previous desi communities started decades ago by owning small businesses and gradually moving up the soiciol ladder from there on out, thats why I think theyll do the same

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    It is good to be recognized by the Prez himself. Also it's a fallacy to think that success of Indians is not evident because there are not seen on screen in TV.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    Yes, I have been living USA for the last 19 years. Have seen the best of academia (cutting edge research) to top tech companies in USA. Indians are found everywhere from top to bottom.

    Havent seen many Pakistanis. Though they are easy to identify - they generally dont mingle as well with the local population and stand out. Yes they tend to hide their origin of nationality or atleast passive about it. Indians wear it on their foreheads and socialize/spread their culture while adopting the local.
    No they dont. I believe what @Bigboii was referring to was that when people talk about success of Muslim Americans, usually those people are Pakistanis.

    And only reason Indians wear their nationality on their forehead, is because 95% of the time you can tell by looking at them that they are Indian.

    That is not always the case with Pakistanis, especially Pakistani females.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    You live in the US?
    I doubt Ind-Ame would disagree that Pakistani-Americans are not a successful group...
    What might get people from outside confused is when they hear "Muslim" American they think this is an Arab guy but 90% of the time it's actually a Pakistani guy but unlike Indians, Pakistanis identify themselves as muslims first than Pakistani

    But the most simple way to test my claim
    Just do a simple LinkedIn search if you don't believe me tbh...
    Or go to any hospital, where you will be see countless Pakistani doctors.

  33. #33
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    All Asian-Americans are highly successful.

    Muricas a dumb and lazy country but has a very good system.

    Just stay in school, fill in the dots and you have a 6 digit career waiting for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    Yes, I have been living USA for the last 19 years. Have seen the best of academia (cutting edge research) to top tech companies in USA. Indians are found everywhere from top to bottom.

    Havent seen many Pakistanis. Though they are easy to identify - they generally dont mingle as well with the local population and stand out. Yes they tend to hide their origin of nationality or atleast passive about it. Indians wear it on their foreheads and socialize/spread their culture while adopting the local.
    You’ve been living in US for 19 years but clearly haven’t gone out much which is very common for Indians who come from India maybe. ABCDs obv different. Also we don’t need to look at anecdotes when we can check stats to see if Pakistani Americans are doing well. The average Pakistani American household income is significantly more than the national average. So that’s enough.

    And Indians don’t need to wear their nationality on their foreheads lol. Their thick accent and face gives it away. And a lot of Indians esp the techies on visa scams almost exclusively hang out with other Indians with no attempts to mingle with local population so kinda wrong there too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxfordchamp View Post
    It is good to be recognized by the Prez himself. Also it's a fallacy to think that success of Indians is not evident because there are not seen on screen in TV.
    Indians themselves are the ones who complained about their portrayal on TV, to the extent that one of the most famous Indian characters Apu in the Simpsons was dropped altogether from the show.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    Oh that stereotype! Sorry, I was referring to the stereotype that the president of US was talking about.
    I agree president ‘s stereotype beats this one. But doesn’t mean this doesn’t exist

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    Quote Originally Posted by OMB View Post
    There are lot of labour class in USA. so many cabbies and gas station guys
    I don't think you understand that those cabbies and gas station guys don't come from the labor class of india, they're mostly educated professionals who couldn't find work in America or decided to start a business, it's not the same pool of people that work as labor in the gulf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    May be we are getting off topic. It makes no sense to have country based discrimination for merit based immigration. BTW, this is how it is for h1b. employment based GC is no different. Though I can understand why you would agree with the current rules.
    The green card country cap is there to promote diversity among the immigrants. Otherwise the US will be filled with Indians and Chinese only (already they form the biggest immigrant groups) post 60s immigration reform.

    Tho from what I hear it’s about to change

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    It is discrimination by definition and by law - discriminating immigrants based on their country of origin and not merit.

    Abused? - worked within the laws. You could argue the laws were dated/inadequate
    Wow. These are economic migrants. Not war plagued refugees. This policy is very much based on discouraging entire middle and upper middle classes of a country to just move to US. I am sure most well educated Latin Americans would also like to be economic migrants to US. The problem is Indians come as students and abuse h1b nevertheless and when denied for greencard think that this is discrimination. Chinese students come in even bigger numbers but don’t abuse h1b in the first place. Hence no problem of greencard bottleneck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    Yes, I have been living USA for the last 19 years. Have seen the best of academia (cutting edge research) to top tech companies in USA. Indians are found everywhere from top to bottom.

    Havent seen many Pakistanis. Though they are easy to identify - they generally dont mingle as well with the local population and stand out. Yes they tend to hide their origin of nationality or atleast passive about it. Indians wear it on their foreheads and socialize/spread their culture while adopting the local.
    Oh boy
    Yeah complete, utter b* and coming from a thoroughly biased position

    You have lived in US yet only looked at tech companies and academic circles (even thier I have met many Pakistani professors so it's weird) my feeling is when you see so much baloney packed in one post you don't even know where to begin...

    No, we just identify ourselves from a religious perspective not a national one, this is not "hiding" your identity it just a different way to identify one's self
    especially identifying oneself as Muslim American after 9/11, I doubt it gets us extra browny points so the "hide" part is disingenuous, if you are passive about your identity I doubt you'll be proudly identifying yourself as "Muslim-American"

    But you know I think you are the IT bubble product who have lived in IT world for so long that you know little about other things outside of that bubble so you know here's the “data”
    To prove that Pakistani Americans are successful groups and not the bums you are painting them

    Indeed, I know of no low-income area or slum in the United States populated predominantly by people of Pakistani origin, and I have never heard of a Pakistani-American homeless person. When one thinks of this community, the words most often coming to mind are prosperous and philanthropic.
    Evidence gives credence to these perceptions. According to a 2011 report by the Asian American Center for Advancing Justice (AACAJ), which draws on data from the 2010 US Census and other US government sources, the median household income of Pakistani-American families is nearly $63,000. This is considerably higher than the figure for families in America on the whole ($51,369). Additionally, as I have pointed out previously, the most common jobs of Pakistani-Americans include doctors, accountants, and financial analysts, and 55 per cent hold at least a bachelor’s degree (this latter figure is only 28 per cent across the US population on the whole).
    Broadly speaking, Pakistani-Americans appear to be economically secure and their positive experiences likely compel them to invite friends and family back in Pakistan to join them in America. Consider that Pakistani-Americans are the second-fastest-growing Asian-American ethnic group – their numbers more than doubled from 2000 to 2010, soaring from 204,309 to 409,163.
    also
    18% of Pakistanis exceed 140k$ household income, The median income is higher than average, 33% of Pakistani pop have incomes higher than 90K, 23% of Pak youth have advanced degrees like PHD or Masters (and all of these are significantly higher than average US pop)
    The problem is people who recently moved from Pakistan, that change process creates the blue-collar workers but most people born in US have successful careers and end up middle to upper middle-class lives (looking at the trend of data and even in my experience almost all the blue-collar workers their kids are college educated)

    So no eventhough you have been living in US for a while but it seems you lived in a bubble of sort to paint Pak-Pop as bums like here ““Havent seen many Pakistanis. Though they are easy to identify - [B]they generally dont mingle as well with the local population and stand out.” “

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    Oh boy
    Yeah complete, utter b* and coming from a thoroughly biased position

    You have lived in US yet only looked at tech companies and academic circles (even thier I have met many Pakistani professors so it's weird) my feeling is when you see so much baloney packed in one post you don't even know where to begin...

    No, we just identify ourselves from a religious perspective not a national one, this is not "hiding" your identity it just a different way to identify one's self
    especially identifying oneself as Muslim American after 9/11, I doubt it gets us extra browny points so the "hide" part is disingenuous, if you are passive about your identity I doubt you'll be proudly identifying yourself as "Muslim-American"

    But you know I think you are the IT bubble product who have lived in IT world for so long that you know little about other things outside of that bubble so you know here's the “data”
    To prove that Pakistani Americans are successful groups and not the bums you are painting them

    Indeed, I know of no low-income area or slum in the United States populated predominantly by people of Pakistani origin, and I have never heard of a Pakistani-American homeless person. When one thinks of this community, the words most often coming to mind are prosperous and philanthropic.
    Evidence gives credence to these perceptions. According to a 2011 report by the Asian American Center for Advancing Justice (AACAJ), which draws on data from the 2010 US Census and other US government sources, the median household income of Pakistani-American families is nearly $63,000. This is considerably higher than the figure for families in America on the whole ($51,369). Additionally, as I have pointed out previously, the most common jobs of Pakistani-Americans include doctors, accountants, and financial analysts, and 55 per cent hold at least a bachelor’s degree (this latter figure is only 28 per cent across the US population on the whole).
    Broadly speaking, Pakistani-Americans appear to be economically secure and their positive experiences likely compel them to invite friends and family back in Pakistan to join them in America. Consider that Pakistani-Americans are the second-fastest-growing Asian-American ethnic group – their numbers more than doubled from 2000 to 2010, soaring from 204,309 to 409,163.
    also
    18% of Pakistanis exceed 140k$ household income, The median income is higher than average, 33% of Pakistani pop have incomes higher than 90K, 23% of Pak youth have advanced degrees like PHD or Masters (and all of these are significantly higher than average US pop)
    The problem is people who recently moved from Pakistan, that change process creates the blue-collar workers but most people born in US have successful careers and end up middle to upper middle-class lives (looking at the trend of data and even in my experience almost all the blue-collar workers their kids are college educated)

    So no eventhough you have been living in US for a while but it seems you lived in a bubble of sort to paint Pak-Pop as bums like here ““Havent seen many Pakistanis. Though they are easy to identify - [B]they generally dont mingle as well with the local population and stand out.” “
    I am not sure where I have said Pakistanis havent or arent doing well. In the technology space (or even the larger corporate space), I can tell you, they are hard to find at exec levels or even senior levels. This is my first-hand experience over a long period.

    That still doesnt mean they are not doing well. If you follow the thread though, the argument was in the context of 1] equating the successes of the 2 groups 2] piggy backing on the success of a particular group.

    And no, I havent missed to observe the success of Pakistanis just because they did not identify themselves as such (and trust me they dont have to - it is easy to identify them atleast the people from my generation and older). My wife used to work for a company founded by a Pakistani entrepreneur. We could tell the nationality- name, looks, behavior, personality etc.
    Last edited by Lego20; 6th March 2021 at 02:15.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 161 View Post
    All Asian-Americans are highly successful.

    Muricas a dumb and lazy country but has a very good system.

    Just stay in school, fill in the dots and you have a 6 digit career waiting for you.
    How are they dumb if they have a country with a system that works and top economy and research?

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    I am not sure where I have said Pakistanis havent or arent doing well. In the technology space (or even the larger corporate space), I can tell you, they are hard to find at exec levels or even senior levels. This is my first-hand experience over a long period.

    That still doesnt mean they are not doing well. If you follow the thread though, the argument was in the context of 1] equating the successes of the 2 groups 2] piggy backing on the success of a particular group.

    And no, I havent missed to observe the success of Pakistanis just because they did not identify themselves as such (and trust me they dont have to - it is easy to identify them atleast the people from my generation and older). My wife used to work for a company founded by a Pakistani entrepreneur. We could tell the nationality- name, looks, behavior, personality etc.
    there are much fewer pakistanis so they are less visible , its number of games .Also from my experience indians have lot bigger extremes than pakistanis , like there are some brillant ones and some utter trash , pakistanis have much more stable average.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by 161 View Post
    All Asian-Americans are highly successful.
    Apparently South East Asian Americans (Hmong, Cambodians, Laotians, Burmese) aren't doing well.

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    Biden's statement is over the top. The US has always been a melting pot and that's what makes the US special.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

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    Indian origin having highest income in the USA is due to them concentrated in IT field. The average income in IT field is high. It does not mean that others are not contributing.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Muhaha and he appointed one as his running mate and Vice President.
    Exactly what you feel when you read it first. "Taking over the country" appeared to be a subconscious jibe. But I think he was praising considering he was addressing NASA and one Swati Mohan

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    All of Desi community is doing very well in the US for some reason what's good is unlike the Asian American community we are also going to high profile in visible places
    Remember, even Pak-Americans were part of the democratic party think tank but it was a gradual process where one would come and another would show up slowly the number started increasing but Indian Americans just broke in, in huge numbers

    This progress is present in larger society too (which led to these white house positions) in almost every major every board room, company upper management or gov department there's a Pakistani or an Indian American working there

    Since Bangladeshi immigrants are a recent immigrant group we are not seeing it with them but they are doing exactly what other desi groups did 20, 30 years ago so in due time they'll be in the same position Pak/ind Americans are at rn
    Could this be due to fact that the first Gen Asian-Indian Amercians were predominantly IT or Medical or some such STEM student?
    The off-springs have branched out to Administrative services (lesser competition from China here) and that's why Biden inducted so many?

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by 161 View Post
    All Asian-Americans are highly successful.

    Muricas a dumb and lazy country but has a very good system.

    Just stay in school, fill in the dots and you have a 6 digit career waiting for you.
    I don't live in USA but have worked for a short while there. I used to meet my friends and relatives who were those days the 1st Gen population, Most were Doctor, professor in Medical or IT fields. Believe me this was the impression I carried after meeting so many of them. Their offspring's seemed smart in a different way like they were in spell bee, chess champions, math genius or had sashayed badges as scouts etc. yet they seemed kind of confused, lacking in street smartness that you see in kids brought up in Asia countries. Their parents always seemed overworked, doing driving duty and I found them constantly cursing America and then praising it in one breath.
    Fast forward to now, I found everyone of those kids occupying great positions and apparently successful as journalists, civil service, fund raisers, director of an art gallery and so on. Most of them still enter Medical and IT but on the whole they are branching out.
    I am surprised how did this happen?

  50. #50
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    Biden is right in a way.

    Indians are taking up many top positions in USA (and also in Canada).


    Bangladeshi Fan || [B]

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by OMB View Post
    I don't live in USA but have worked for a short while there. I used to meet my friends and relatives who were those days the 1st Gen population, Most were Doctor, professor in Medical or IT fields. Believe me this was the impression I carried after meeting so many of them. Their offspring's seemed smart in a different way like they were in spell bee, chess champions, math genius or had sashayed badges as scouts etc. yet they seemed kind of confused, lacking in street smartness that you see in kids brought up in Asia countries. Their parents always seemed overworked, doing driving duty and I found them constantly cursing America and then praising it in one breath.
    Fast forward to now, I found everyone of those kids occupying great positions and apparently successful as journalists, civil service, fund raisers, director of an art gallery and so on. Most of them still enter Medical and IT but on the whole they are branching out.
    I am surprised how did this happen?
    Are you talking about Indians or Pakistanis?


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    Quote Originally Posted by OMB View Post
    Could this be due to fact that the first Gen Asian-Indian Amercians were predominantly IT or Medical or some such STEM student?
    The off-springs have branched out to Administrative services (lesser competition from China here) and that's why Biden inducted so many?
    I think so. STEM fields provide security of their children and they have freedom to look after other people and not think about their survival.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    I am not sure where I have said Pakistanis havent or arent doing well.
    You said it here
    “ they generally dont mingle as well with the local population and stand out.”
    So you are calling tham successful but at the same time they cant mingle well with local and stand “out” more than I guess other desi groups

    What kind of successful group can't mingle with Local pop but are still richer than average pop
    Are they getting rich by gold mining in New Mexico alone by thamselves
    without interacting with other groups?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    In the technology space (or even the larger corporate space), I can tell you, they are hard to find at exec levels or even senior levels. This is my first-hand experience over a long period.
    And your firsthand experience was wrong and coming from either
    A biased position or you were ignorant because you were living in a tech bubble

    This is how it's wrong
    First you can go to LinkedIn and we can correct your firsthand experience about upper management
    And if there's still some problem here's the data

    “18% of Pakistanis exceed 140k$ income”

    Do you pay more than $140k to your junior employees or your upper management…

    So just logically it shows that Pakistanis are in upper management positions, you can't be a junior employee and earn more than $140k
    and 18% of the population in the highest income bracket is a very high number for any immigrant group

    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    That still doesnt mean they are not doing well. If you follow the thread though, the argument was in the context of 1] equating the successes of the 2 groups 2] piggy backing on the success of a particular group.
    Yes, this is EXTREMELY petty by any stretch of the imagination …

    SO I made a harmless, lil statement that all desi groups seems to be doing good (as later proven by data)
    So my statement was correct

    1- “equating the successes of the 2 groups”,”piggy backing on the success of a particular group.”

    So how is all Desi groups seems to do good in US and my surprise

    Goes from “piggy backing” “equating”

    Are you that sensitive, is your ego that high that mentioning the two groups in a single statement is
    “Piggy backing” “equating the success”

    I mean c'mon wth; the statement was correct (cause all desi groups seems to do good in us even you later admitted)

    But lets be honest you got all sensitive cause your biases started kicking in…

    When a guy actually thinks that Pakistani don't mingle well with local (a clear sign of a poor community) and stand out (I still to this day never got how Pakistanis stand out more than desi groups)

    Than seeing that community being mentioned in the same breath as “successful” Indian community your intense superiority complex kicked in…
    Thus you thought it was “piggy backing” off someone else's success

    But sad part is living in the US you should have grown and be more accepting (just like majority of Indian-Amer are) instead of acting like a fresh of the boat with all the biases

    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    And no, I havent missed to observe the success of Pakistanis just because they did not identify themselves as such (and trust me they dont have to - it is easy to identify them atleast the people from my generation and older). My wife used to work for a company founded by a Pakistani entrepreneur. We could tell the nationality- name, looks, behavior, personality etc.
    No response….
    Last edited by MenInG; 7th March 2021 at 00:04.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by OMB View Post
    Could this be due to fact that the first Gen Asian-Desi Amercians were predominantly IT or Medical or some such STEM student?
    The off-springs have branched out to Administrative services (lesser competition from China here) and that's why Biden inducted so many?
    Yep, I think this could be the reason

    Also, experience with English and democratic system of governance helps

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by 161 View Post
    All Asian-Americans are highly successful.

    Muricas a dumb and lazy country but has a very good system.

    Just stay in school, fill in the dots and you have a 6 digit career waiting for you.
    I have to agree with you. They have a perfect system in place to grow. There is no excuse to be very poor and struggle in life.
    Most kids do not want to study. They all want to be ball players, musicians or study some philosophy or some other stupid thing. Good thing is that America is a welfare state and they will take care of all these single moms and deadbeat dads.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    I have to agree with you. They have a perfect system in place to grow. There is no excuse to be very poor and struggle in life.
    Most kids do not want to study. They all want to be ball players, musicians or study some philosophy or some other stupid thing. Good thing is that America is a welfare state and they will take care of all these single moms and deadbeat dads.
    Indians are so much smarter than 'muricans, it just seems surprising that with all their smarts, India looks like that, and the US looks like it does. Seems odd that a country of wasters, musicians and philosophers has built something so much better.


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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    I have to agree with you. They have a perfect system in place to grow. There is no excuse to be very poor and struggle in life.
    Most kids do not want to study. They all want to be ball players, musicians or study some philosophy or some other stupid thing. Good thing is that America is a welfare state and they will take care of all these single moms and deadbeat dads.
    carry on...

  58. #58
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    Don't Indians also take most executive jobs at places like Vida , MasterCard etc?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Indians are so much smarter than 'muricans, it just seems surprising that with all their smarts, India looks like that, and the US looks like it does. Seems odd that a country of wasters, musicians and philosophers has built something so much better.
    Talking about the current generation. Not about what their previous generations did.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    carry on...
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...welfare-state/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Indians are so much smarter than 'muricans, it just seems surprising that with all their smarts, India looks like that, and the US looks like it does. Seems odd that a country of wasters, musicians and philosophers has built something so much better.
    Give India 300 years of continued freedom. It will flourish. Before all the conquests on India (Bharath). It had the highest GDP.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    Yep, I think this could be the reason

    Also, experience with English and democratic system of governance helps
    Credit to stable desi family system and values too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    I have to agree with you. They have a perfect system in place to grow. There is no excuse to be very poor and struggle in life.
    Most kids do not want to study. They all want to be ball players, musicians or study some philosophy or some other stupid thing. Good thing is that America is a welfare state and they will take care of all these single moms and deadbeat dads.
    América is a welfare state?

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndoorCricket View Post
    Give India 300 years of continued freedom. It will flourish. Before all the conquests on India (Bharath). It had the highest GDP.
    If India was actually a strong country then it wouldn’t have been conquered so easily. Also India wasn’t a ‘country’

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    Quote Originally Posted by IndoorCricket View Post
    Give India 300 years of continued freedom. It will flourish. Before all the conquests on India (Bharath). It had the highest GDP.
    Islam is only 1400 years old (and not more than 600-700 yrs in the subcontinent), whereas Indian civilisation is thousands of years old.

    So in such a long continuous existence has india ever been a world power or center of Admiration for other civilzations in the old world?

    All it has ever been (and still is) is a source of cheap Labour with slave like mentality. I know it sounds harsh but its the truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    Yes, I have been living USA for the last 19 years. Have seen the best of academia (cutting edge research) to top tech companies in USA. Indians are found everywhere from top to bottom.

    Havent seen many Pakistanis. Though they are easy to identify - they generally dont mingle as well with the local population and stand out. Yes they tend to hide their origin of nationality or atleast passive about it. Indians wear it on their foreheads and socialize/spread their culture while adopting the local.
    Yes the Indians are so much mixed and assimilated in the western society that most of the times they are are more Angrej than the Angrej himself.

    Most of them have adopted a G0ra name like: Mike, joe, Sam etc and will go to extreme lengths to ape the G0ra saab. Many dont like to intermingle with other Indians. Bravo, what an achievement!

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    Indians are the perfect example every other minorities should learn from and emulate. World would be a better place if all immigrants, or their offsprings, were like indians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lego20 View Post
    Yes they tend to hide their origin of nationality or atleast passive about it. Indians wear it on their foreheads and socialize/spread their culture while adopting the local.
    This seems to be a story some Indians have concocted in their mind with no basis on reality or logic, or using the exceptions as the rule. The reality is usually the opposite of this.

    Pakistanis will easily identify themselves as Pakistani if they grew up in Pakistan. Same with Indians living in US or Canada. I haven't really seen any significant difference. I have come across few individuals both Indian and Pakistani that do not as easily identify. Again, no signifcant difference.

    OTOH, Indian and Pakistani heritage individuals that grew up in the US will identify themselves less so for obvious reasons.

    Where you might be getting confused is that in the last 10-15 odd years, the number of Indians that have poured into the US on H1B is just enormous (similarly to Canada on express entry), while immigration from Pakistan has been stable. So a much higher percent of Pakistani population in the US grew up in the US compared to Indian, and those individuals may not identify as much with Pakistan. The Indians in late 20s and 30s who recently immigrated on H1B or express entry is just an enormous amount and they can't stop talking about India. This might be skewing your perspective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bi_Jamalo View Post
    Islam is only 1400 years old (and not more than 600-700 yrs in the subcontinent), whereas Indian civilisation is thousands of years old.

    So in such a long continuous existence has india ever been a world power or center of Admiration for other civilzations in the old world?

    All it has ever been (and still is) is a source of cheap Labour with slave like mentality. I know it sounds harsh but its the truth.
    You are looking it from wrong lens. Bharath never exerted its power through conquests. You have to understand ethos of it. Its ultimate goal is about moksha or freedom from material world. It prospered through trade, commerce and exchange of ideas. Conquest is necessary for nations/people who are not self sufficient or have greed for other belongings. It was not ideal of people of those times. Because one who resides in self doesn't need any possessions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    If India was actually a strong country then it wouldn’t have been conquered so easily. Also India wasn’t a ‘country’
    I would say the rulers became meek as time went by. And east India company came in for trade and plundered everything under our nose. I know India wasn't a nation by then. That's why I referred it to as Bharath or as some people also call it Hindustan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigboii View Post
    You said it here
    What kind of successful group can't mingle with Local pop but are still richer than average pop
    Are they getting rich by gold mining in New Mexico alone by thamselves
    without interacting with other groups?

    I dont think being successful and social are co-dependent. Also, my observation comes from the people I have known and interacted with. I obviously dont have enough varied sample size to generalize. My comments were specific to my experience

    Do you pay more than $140k to your junior employees or your upper management…

    So just logically it shows that Pakistanis are in upper management positions, you can't be a junior employee and earn more than $140k
    and 18% of the population in the highest income bracket is a very high number for any immigrant group

    Well 140K is close to low income threshold where I live. You qualify for welfare benefits at 117K. These nos corroborate with my comment. You may say tech bubble but that was not the argument. The argument was about not seeing enough Pakistani representation at senior and exec levels. I havent seen many (actually any) in the big companies I have worked for

    So how is all Desi groups seems to do good in US and my surprise

    Goes from “piggy backing” “equating”

    Your comment on its own is perfectly legitimate. Though it seemed out of context to me almost to the extent that it appears to downplay achievements of Indian community. I feel the difference is much larger to warrant comparison. I dont mean to say this to boast or out of ego - its just a plain fact (which is a also a moving variable)
    .

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bi_Jamalo View Post
    Islam is only 1400 years old (and not more than 600-700 yrs in the subcontinent), whereas Indian civilisation is thousands of years old.

    So in such a long continuous existence has india ever been a world power or center of Admiration for other civilzations in the old world?

    All it has ever been (and still is) is a source of cheap Labour with slave like mentality. I know it sounds harsh but its the truth.
    indian civilization was inward looking , india has historically being self sustained island,it was like a world on its own, you can see indian contributions are mostly in spirtuality ,mathematics and arts not warfare and they are quite unique for their time .
    Saying that what west has achieved post renaissance and industrial revolution has made everything peanut and now what east asians are doing for some decades by learning from westerners. Rest of the world is pretty much on blank page and its about comparing dwarfs.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    Talking about the current generation. Not about what their previous generations did.
    I am talking about current generation as well. America currently has great sewerage, good housing, and excellent hygiene and safety regulations in all spheres of life. Maybe come back to this thread in 2020 as per youtube videos about Indian advanced civilisation and we can reassess.


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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by guna View Post
    I have to agree with you. They have a perfect system in place to grow. There is no excuse to be very poor and struggle in life.
    Most kids do not want to study. They all want to be ball players, musicians or study some philosophy or some other stupid thing. Good thing is that America is a welfare state and they will take care of all these single moms and deadbeat dads.
    Most kids don't want to study in most parts of the world. Push mostly comes from educated parents.

    The immigrant group coming to US-based employment is mostly well educated. In the case of Indian immigrants, it's even higher. No surprise that those parents will push the next generation for education more than some other groups. It is not a reflection of either India or US. The immigrant sample is not a normal distribution of Indians.

    There is no system to take care of single moms and deadbeat dads in the US. I am not sure what do you mean by that.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

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    Quote Originally Posted by IndoorCricket View Post
    You are looking it from wrong lens. Bharath never exerted its power through conquests. You have to understand ethos of it. Its ultimate goal is about moksha or freedom from material world. It prospered through trade, commerce and exchange of ideas. Conquest is necessary for nations/people who are not self sufficient or have greed for other belongings. It was not ideal of people of those times. Because one who resides in self doesn't need any possessions.
    Hmm, so if inwards looking and spirituality loving are the main principle of Indian civilisation and culture, then what is India doing in Tibet (Laddakh & Arunachal Pradesh), Kashmir, Nepal and Sri lanka?

    Shouldn’t indians be “peacefully” accepting the fact that a vast number of their own ppl ve “chosen” to leave their traditional faith (Hinduism), which is why abt 40% of indian subcontinent’s population is following a religion other than Hinduism (mainly islam but also christianity, Buddhism, sikhism, jainism etc).

    Why do we witness the religious fanatism and illiterate mob lynchings in today’s india? Why is a right wing extremist like Modi in power?

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndoorCricket View Post
    Credit to stable desi family system and values too.
    Asian also have stable family system and values

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    If India was actually a strong country then it wouldn’t have been conquered so easily. Also India wasn’t a ‘country’
    Except for Europe we can say the same about every country and Honestly Europe grew because they FOUGHT - constant fighting helped them develop new techs
    my great nation rankings (with historical perspective)
    1- China
    2- Rome/ Europe
    3- India
    4- US
    5- Persia
    6- Arab dynasties

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bi_Jamalo View Post
    Hmm, so if inwards looking and spirituality loving are the main principle of Indian civilisation and culture, then what is India doing in Tibet (Laddakh & Arunachal Pradesh), Kashmir, Nepal and Sri lanka?

    Shouldn’t indians be “peacefully” accepting the fact that a vast number of their own ppl ve “chosen” to leave their traditional faith (Hinduism), which is why abt 40% of indian subcontinent’s population is following a religion other than Hinduism (mainly islam but also christianity, Buddhism, sikhism, jainism etc).

    Why do we witness the religious fanatism and illiterate mob lynchings in today’s india? Why is a right wing extremist like Modi in power?
    I was talking about ancient Hindu civilization as you asked about conquest's. I am not sure why are you bringing present day politics into this?

    There was no Hinduism 1500 years back. Its called Sanatana Dharma. People of the same family used to have different beliefs. Hinduism is a very new concept. (From wiki: The use of the English term "Hinduism" to describe a collection of practices and beliefs is a fairly recent construction: it was first used by Raja Ram Mohun Roy in 1816–17) Its a counter narrative to unite against invaders of the land. But the underlying thread of the land was spirituality especially moksha or liberation. We can apply your logic to contemporary religions of this day. They have their extreme elements and problems. Every country has some kind of conflict with neighboring countries especially for countries which doesn't have prolonged freedom and stability.

    There are forced conversions from invaders and its very well documented and hence such a diversity and India is proud of this diversity. For your question on mob lynching's its a question of law and its another thing altogether. Due to horrid invasions and conquests for centuries, people of the land lost their identity and their roots. I would say it will take another 100 years of peace and stability in the subcontinent region for this flares to calm down.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndoorCricket View Post
    I was talking about ancient Hindu civilization as you asked about conquest's. I am not sure why are you bringing present day politics into this?

    There was no Hinduism 1500 years back. Its called Sanatana Dharma. People of the same family used to have different beliefs. Hinduism is a very new concept. (From wiki: The use of the English term "Hinduism" to describe a collection of practices and beliefs is a fairly recent construction: it was first used by Raja Ram Mohun Roy in 1816–17) Its a counter narrative to unite against invaders of the land. But the underlying thread of the land was spirituality especially moksha or liberation. We can apply your logic to contemporary religions of this day. They have their extreme elements and problems. Every country has some kind of conflict with neighboring countries especially for countries which doesn't have prolonged freedom and stability.

    There are forced conversions from invaders and its very well documented and hence such a diversity and India is proud of this diversity. For your question on mob lynching's its a question of law and its another thing altogether. Due to horrid invasions and conquests for centuries, people of the land lost their identity and their roots. I would say it will take another 100 years of peace and stability in the subcontinent region for this flares to calm down.
    If there really were forced conversions:
    1. Almost 100% of subcontinent would ve been muslim after 500-700 years under muslim rulers. Thats a long time period.
    2. Many would ve reverted back to hinduism.

    Fact remains that many, even on this forum would ve had hindu forefathers but we still reject it as a religion.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bi_Jamalo View Post
    If there really were forced conversions:
    1. Almost 100% of subcontinent would ve been muslim after 500-700 years under muslim rulers. Thats a long time period.
    2. Many would ve reverted back to hinduism.

    Fact remains that many, even on this forum would ve had hindu forefathers but we still reject it as a religion.
    Sikh religion was primarily formed to oppose these forced conversions. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism). Many refused to convert and they were persecuted (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persec..._sub-continent)
    And there is also concept of Jizya is islam as far as I know for taxing non-believers

    I am pretty sure people would have forgotten their lineage after few centuries after conversion. Look I am not here to discuss about these things. You can reject what ever you want I am not here to question that. I just described about Sanatana Dharma and you went on a tangent.


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