"I am completely fit and will do my best to make a comeback in the Test side" : Shadab Khan


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  1. #1
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    "I am completely fit and will do my best to make a comeback in the Test side" : Shadab Khan

    Shadab Khan speaking to the media:

    "Dressing room environment is very good and we are not talking about anything except cricket and not talking about negative things"

    "All teams are equal in international cricket in terms of competition and we are preparing strongly"

    "I will always play as a bowling all-rounder, although batting is my plus point"

    "Misbah and Younis are working a lot on my batting as they saw some deficiencies in it during the PSL"

    "We have Waqar Younis as bowling coach so there is no issue and sometimes if we have any queries, we ask each other as well as we have all played international cricket"

    "There is always pressure on you in cricket and its healthy competition, and its good for the side; Usman, Zahid and Nawaz are all doing well and to be honest, whoever performs well will stay in the side"

    "I am completely fit and will do my best in next QeA Trophy to make a comeback in the Test side - I played Tests against England and my performance was so and so, but I will try my best to make a comeback"

    Asked about absence of Hassan Ali and how much he is missing them:

    "In Quarantine, you spend a lot of time with team members; We have a roti group which has many members; We are really missing Hassan in the camp but hopefully he will recover and join the camp"

    "Sharjeel has come back into the side after a process where he has played domestic cricket and performed well, and did the same in PSL also; He has completed his punishment and comeback into the side; Definitely, fitness is an issue but as we have seen in this camp that he is working hard on his fitness, and most importantly he is willing to do this effort from his own side; Hopefully he will improve his fitness as he is a match-winner and Pakistan needs this too"

    “With the ODI World Cup qualification at stake, it is imperative for Pakistan to win the series. Therefore, we are expecting a good series against South Africa although we have not played ODI cricket since Zimbabwe visited us last year.”
    Last edited by MenInG; 23rd March 2021 at 11:46.


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  2. #2
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    Since his debut Test as a teenager:

    Shadab Khan:
    Test batting average 40
    Test bowling average 28

    I suppose there is a reason why he is not the third guy selected after Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan.

    I just donít understand what that reason is.

  3. #3
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    Unless hes going to comeback into test side and open the inns i cant see a spot for him in the test side at the moment.

  4. #4
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    The guy has regressed. Should no where be near whiteball never mind tests

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    He need to improve his bowling, Need to be bit more smarter & aggressive and look to take wicket, Maybe slow down his bowling speed to let the ball spin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Since his debut Test as a teenager:

    Shadab Khan:
    Test batting average 40
    Test bowling average 28

    I suppose there is a reason why he is not the third guy selected after Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan.

    I just don’t understand what that reason is.
    Should be batting at 7 and play as support spinner in Asia and lone spinner outside Asia

  8. #7
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    His role needs defining for Test cricket.

    Is he a bowler who can bit in the top 6, or is he a batsman who can bowl a bit.

    I think at times even Shadab seems a bit confused with what is expected of him in the 5 day format.

    Also in non Asian pitches, the question that needs asking, is he good enough to play mainly as a batsman given that he won't bowl much as the second spinner.



  9. #8
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    Heís not test material in my view.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    His role needs defining for Test cricket.

    Is he a bowler who can bit in the top 6, or is he a batsman who can bowl a bit.

    I think at times even Shadab seems a bit confused with what is expected of him in the 5 day format.

    Also in non Asian pitches, the question that needs asking, is he good enough to play mainly as a batsman given that he won't bowl much as the second spinner.
    Well if his captain underuse his bowling... then that is not his problem..

    In the England tour last year, he bowled a maximum of 8-10 overs in the first test across 2 inns.. on the other hand Yasir shah lonely bowled 50 overs a test match. Remind you that in the 8 overs he got 2 wickets, even though it was tailenders in the first inns, well he was given the ball only when the tailenders came to bat...

    Pakistan under Misbah has always bowled only the frontline bowlers and hesitant to give the ball to Shadab or Haris Sohail or Fawad Alam or Azhar ali or Asad Shafiq etc.. This trend continues.

    Other teams try to make use of the players who can bowl a bit in 5 day or 1 day format.. Unfortunately not the case with pak..

    Pak should have won the first test no matter what the resurgence of Woakes/Butler to win it for Eng.
    Because Pakistan did a lot of mistakes, underusing shadabs bowling is also one of them and heavily reliant on yasir shah to take 10 wickets is ridiculous.. It seemed to me as if they dont want to play shadab but they accidently end up playing and they want to make him not contribute with bowling, just give the batting alone to prove his worth, so that MISBAH can go back to his 6 batsman strategy..
    Pakistan had such a brainless captain in Azhar ali who is rightfully thrown away, and clueless management under Misbah who needs to discarded asap...
    Last edited by ask_analyse_act; 21st March 2021 at 17:20.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    His role needs defining for Test cricket.

    Is he a bowler who can bit in the top 6, or is he a batsman who can bowl a bit.

    I think at times even Shadab seems a bit confused with what is expected of him in the 5 day format.

    Also in non Asian pitches, the question that needs asking, is he good enough to play mainly as a batsman given that he won't bowl much as the second spinner.
    He is fine in the batting department coming in at no.6 but he needs to be given more overs with the ball, but they try to see him as a batsman or as an LOI bowler when the play him on-field...

    Pakistan are one of the best country to destroy talents.. Let me tell you that , under the current coaching management Pakistan will not find a proper young batsman, proper bowler, proper allrounder...

    The train starts with Abdullah Shafique, Haider ali, Naseem Shah, Musa, Imran butt, Khushdil Shah etc.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Since his debut Test as a teenager:

    Shadab Khan:
    Test batting average 40
    Test bowling average 28

    I suppose there is a reason why he is not the third guy selected after Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan.

    I just don’t understand what that reason is.
    Same reason Shahid Afridi didn't play 100 tests. Stats over a small sample don't mean that much bhai.

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ask_analyse_act View Post
    He is fine in the batting department coming in at no.6 but he needs to be given more overs with the ball, but they try to see him as a batsman or as an LOI bowler when the play him on-field...

    Pakistan are one of the best country to destroy talents.. Let me tell you that , under the current coaching management Pakistan will not find a proper young batsman, proper bowler, proper allrounder...

    The train starts with Abdullah Shafique, Haider ali, Naseem Shah, Musa, Imran butt, Khushdil Shah etc.
    If he's going to bat at number 6 then he will be up against the likes of Fawad Alam etc. Is he better than the likes of Fawad to bat at 6 is the question that needs to be asked.



  14. #13
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    Not even good enough for the shorter formats, but as usual the selectors generally pick on reputation.

    He certainly isn't good enough as a batsman or bowler to play Tests.

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    Lack of understanding in the team + recent injury = poor form. Shadab Khan shouldn't be in the team and needs domestic cricket, very much like Hasan Ali.

    The problem is Pakistan management, coaches and player himself have no idea what he's in the team to do and frankly neither to I.

  16. #15
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    Well the lad is being pumped up at the moment as a potential future skipper of Pakistan so he must be doing something right.

    He's definitely the number one choice spinner in white-ball cricket too.



  17. #16
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    In sena conditions he should be batting at 7with fahim at 8 that gives you a balance of playing 3 seemers and 2 all rounders
    Last edited by shamaan; 22nd March 2021 at 00:38.

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amjid Javed View Post
    Unless hes going to comeback into test side and open the inns i cant see a spot for him in the test side at the moment.
    In asain conditions i would not pick him but in sena conditions in test id defonitely pick him and fahim at 7 and 8

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    If he's going to bat at number 6 then he will be up against the likes of Fawad Alam etc. Is he better than the likes of Fawad to bat at 6 is the question that needs to be asked.
    He sena he should be playing at 7

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    If he's going to bat at number 6 then he will be up against the likes of Fawad Alam etc. Is he better than the likes of Fawad to bat at 6 is the question that needs to be asked.
    With respect, that is the same question that Misbah wrongly asks.

    I work on the basis that either Mohammad Rizwan or Rohail Nazir can keep wicket and score as many runs from Number 6 as Fawad Alam.

    I then think that the following two players merit selection:

    NUMBER 7 - SHADAB KHAN
    80% of the output of a Test batsman
    60% of the output of a Test bowler

    NUMBER 8 - FAHEEM ASHRAF
    60% of the output of a Test batsman
    60% of the output of a Test bowler

    Those two players between them give you an extra 1.4 batsmen and 1.2 bowlers.

    So if you select both Shadab and Faheem you are effectively playing with 11.6 players instead of 11.

    The recipe for success of South Africa for many years was that Jacques Kallis and Shaun Pollock and AB De Villiers effectively functioned as follows:

    Jacques Kallis
    130% Test batsman
    75% Test bowler

    Shaun Pollock
    80% Test bowler
    100% Test bowler

    AB De Villiers
    120% Test batsman
    90% Test wicketkeeper

    Those three players effectively meant that South Africa had 3.3 batsmen, 1.7 bowlers and a keeper for the price of 3 selection slots - effectively 6 players in 3 slots and let them carry a number of mediocre players (Harris, Peterson et al).

    Shadab and Faheem are not in that class, but they still let Pakistan get 2.6 players' output out of 2 slots.

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    If he's going to bat at number 6 then he will be up against the likes of Fawad Alam etc. Is he better than the likes of Fawad to bat at 6 is the question that needs to be asked.
    Fawad hasnít had the easiest journey coming back but has also shown he can play a long innings and now and again bowl some decent overs.

    I wish Shadab the best but donít quite see him as a red ball player and really donít understand his role, is he a batter or a bowler? Shadab needs to play more 4-day cricket and we need to stop with this cheapening of the Pakistan cap.


  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoaibbtt View Post
    Fawad hasn’t had the easiest journey coming back but has also shown he can play a long innings and now and again bowl some decent overs.

    I wish Shadab the best but don’t quite see him as a red ball player and really don’t understand his role, is he a batter or a bowler? Shadab needs to play more 4-day cricket and we need to stop with this cheapening of the Pakistan cap.
    Fawad Alam's Test batting record since his comeback:
    0
    21 and 0*
    9 and 102
    2 and 16
    109 and 4*
    45 and 12
    320 runs in 11 innings at an average of 35.56
    Fawad failed to score at least 50 runs in 3 Tests out of 6

    Shadab Khan since his comeback
    55 and 4*
    52 and dnb
    56 and 4
    5 and 47*
    45 and 15
    283 runs in 9 innings at an average of 40.43
    Shadab failed to score at least 50 runs in 0 Tests out of 5.

    Shadab Khan has been a far superior performer with the bat compared with Fawad since their respective comebacks.

    Fawad fails in half his Tests.
    Shadab never fails with the bat.

  23. #22
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    Shadab needs to play more first class cricket and I donít think 17 first class matches is enough. Needs to at least play 60-70 more matches before being recalled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoaibbtt View Post
    Shadab needs to play more first class cricket and I don’t think 17 first class matches is enough. Needs to at least play 60-70 more matches before being recalled.
    I am surprised that the PCB doesn't lay down the law that they expect him to take part in the full domestic season, its not like he is a fast bowler who will suffer from burn out. But with so many international T-20 leagues available and the fact he is a guaranteed starter in the ODI and T-20 team, what incentive does he have to slog in domestic cricket where they pay is not even substantial either

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    His status as an automatic selection sums up everything that is wrong with Pakistan cricket, and there is plenty of wrong.

    A nothing cricketer in every sense of the word. I laugh when people say he is very talented; he is actually one of the least talented international cricketers I have seen.

    As a batsman, he is always late on the ball, has no power game and no flair in his strokeplay.

    As a bowler, he barely gets any spin and zip and has no control whatsoever.

    If he was in India, he would barely make it to FC level let alone play international cricket for a substantial period of time.

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    Only way he can come into the team is he plays as a batsmen, and bowls a bit so a batting all-rounder , batting would have to be upped to another level

    The person to make way would be fawad alam

    He's not gonna make the team as a spinner unless they get rid of yasir shah who is getting on a bit age wise

  27. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    I am surprised that the PCB doesn't lay down the law that they expect him to take part in the full domestic season, its not like he is a fast bowler who will suffer from burn out. But with so many international T-20 leagues available and the fact he is a guaranteed starter in the ODI and T-20 team, what incentive does he have to slog in domestic cricket where they pay is not even substantial either
    My sentiment exactly bro. This is why India is so successful because they don't make it cheap to earn a test cap.

    Besides my issue is that despite Shadab's batting, i don't see him as a quality test bowler in tests just a guy that can bat and bowl a few overs which is not good enough in my view. We already have allrounder spots booked in Faheem and to an extent Yasir Shah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Well the lad is being pumped up at the moment as a potential future skipper of Pakistan so he must be doing something right.

    He's definitely the number one choice spinner in white-ball cricket too.
    There's a lot to like about Shadab! Energy and passion is there . . fitness is there . . arguably the best fielder Pakistan has produced . . batting I think has come a long way . .
    What worries me is his decline in bowling since his debut . . and while some fans argue that he was never good enough, I disagree! I have looked at videos of his bowling in the PSL (before he was picked for Pakistan) and his first year in international cricket . . his run up has changed, his action has changed, his revs have changed . . and all for the worse! He was a genuine spinner of the ball and his google had serious zip . . he has lost all of that . . He now has no zip, bite or turn in his bowling . . he has gotten confused between an Imran Tahir mold of a leg spinner and Rashid Khan kind of a spinner . .
    He currently isnt' even in the top 2 or 3 leg spinners in the country . . so @Saj, I would love to understand what he makes of his bowling, what analysis has he done and how he plans on improving that?

  29. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoaibbtt View Post
    My sentiment exactly bro. This is why India is so successful because they don't make it cheap to earn a test cap.

    Besides my issue is that despite Shadab's batting, i don't see him as a quality test bowler in tests just a guy that can bat and bowl a few overs which is not good enough in my view. We already have allrounder spots booked in Faheem and to an extent Yasir Shah.
    Yasir shah to an extend all rounder? Lol

  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    Yasir shah to an extend all rounder? Lol
    A bowling allrounder yes, but you can't deny he can't hit a little lol. He's certainly no mug with the bat, i wouldn't downplay his hitting ability. He scored some useful runs in the SA test series.

  31. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    If he's going to bat at number 6 then he will be up against the likes of Fawad Alam etc. Is he better than the likes of Fawad to bat at 6 is the question that needs to be asked.
    In tests played in England, Pakistan have won or most likely came close to a win was when they played 5 batsmen 2 allrounders in Shadab , Faheem and 3 bowlers. yasir was always ineffective in SENA tests but he did well in the first test and it looked good when they selected 2 legspinners but used only yasir, which is very weird and i dont know if it was the dumb coach behind this foolishness or the then captain himself...

  32. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoaibbtt View Post
    A bowling allrounder yes, but you can't deny he can't hit a little lol. He's certainly no mug with the bat, i wouldn't downplay his hitting ability. He scored some useful runs in the SA test series.
    He can hit abit but so can alot of Pakistan bowlers

  33. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    He can hit abit but so can alot of Pakistan bowlers
    Well my point is there's no space for Shadab yet and really needs to focus on playing more domestic cricket. 17 first class matches isn't good enough and so needs to play 60 more matches to be re-trailed plus to add to boot his form isn't that great.

    The Pakistan test team has always been setup in such a way that it consists of 5 batsmen, wicket-keeper, allrounder and then your 4 specialist bowlers.

  34. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoaibbtt View Post
    Well my point is there's no space for Shadab yet and really needs to focus on playing more domestic cricket. 17 first class matches isn't good enough and so needs to play 60 more matches to be re-trailed plus to add to boot his form isn't that great.

    The Pakistan test team has always been setup in such a way that it consists of 5 batsmen, wicket-keeper, allrounder and then your 4 specialist bowlers.

    I would defonitely play shadab in sena conditions batting at 7 and fahim at 8 i would not include a proper spinner in the xi unless its made for the spinners.shadab gives you that balance in sena.but in asain conditions he should not be in the playing playing xi.

  35. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    I would defonitely play shadab in sena conditions batting at 7 and fahim at 8 i would not include a proper spinner in the xi unless its made for the spinners.shadab gives you that balance in sena.but in asain conditions he should not be in the playing playing xi.
    It's early days for him and besides he needs to focus on his current form in t20 which has been poor of late. He better hope he fires in SA and Zimbabwe (mostly SA).

  36. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoaibbtt View Post
    It's early days for him and besides he needs to focus on his current form in t20 which has been poor of late. He better hope he fires in SA and Zimbabwe (mostly SA).
    Yes his form has been poor and must improve but he has been injuired but no excuses he must perform

  37. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    His status as an automatic selection sums up everything that is wrong with Pakistan cricket, and there is plenty of wrong.

    A nothing cricketer in every sense of the word. I laugh when people say he is very talented; he is actually one of the least talented international cricketers I have seen.

    As a batsman, he is always late on the ball, has no power game and no flair in his strokeplay.

    As a bowler, he barely gets any spin and zip and has no control whatsoever.

    If he was in India, he would barely make it to FC level let alone play international cricket for a substantial period of time.
    Agreed.

    In his batting, he'd be fine for rotating the strike but he doesn't have the batting ability to hit a match winning 100, he hasn't reached that level.

    He gets done by pace a lot when he's batting as well, often mistimes shots which balloon in the air safe from the fielders nearby.

    A few years back, maybe I'd have considered him one for the future, because back then, he had some takat in his bowling. Got good spin and was an attacking bowling option. That was the stage he needed to play First Class Cricket, not CPL, BBL, PSL.

    Now he hardly looks like the player who could have reached the ceiling he once had.

    Needs serious work in FC Cricket. He's 21, he has time, but at the moment, I'd consider other options. Would waste a spot on the team on current form.

  38. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    Agreed.

    In his batting, he'd be fine for rotating the strike but he doesn't have the batting ability to hit a match winning 100, he hasn't reached that level.

    He gets done by pace a lot when he's batting as well, often mistimes shots which balloon in the air safe from the fielders nearby.

    A few years back, maybe I'd have considered him one for the future, because back then, he had some takat in his bowling. Got good spin and was an attacking bowling option. That was the stage he needed to play First Class Cricket, not CPL, BBL, PSL.

    Now he hardly looks like the player who could have reached the ceiling he once had.

    Needs serious work in FC Cricket. He's 21, he has time, but at the moment, I'd consider other options. Would waste a spot on the team on current form.
    Yep, my philosophy is for the test team if it ain't broke then don't fix it. The only thing that needs fixing is Pakistan's opening which is what is truly struggling and is currently the weakest link.

    Shadab needs to work on a format at a time and not focus on playing all 3 formats just now.

    For me the following is the playing XI against Zimbabwe in the first test:

    1. Abdullah Shafique (trial him now for peak's sake)
    2. Imran Butt
    3. Azhar Ali
    4. Babar Azam (c)
    5. Fawad Alam
    6. Muhammad Rizwan (wk)
    7. Faheem Ashraf
    8. Hassan Ali
    9. Nuaman Ali
    10. Zahid Mehmood
    11. Tabish Khan (resting Shaheen for Tabish, however won't be surprised if Shaheen is retained)

  39. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    Agreed.

    In his batting, he'd be fine for rotating the strike but he doesn't have the batting ability to hit a match winning 100, he hasn't reached that level.

    He gets done by pace a lot when he's batting as well, often mistimes shots which balloon in the air safe from the fielders nearby.

    A few years back, maybe I'd have considered him one for the future, because back then, he had some takat in his bowling. Got good spin and was an attacking bowling option. That was the stage he needed to play First Class Cricket, not CPL, BBL, PSL.

    Now he hardly looks like the player who could have reached the ceiling he once had.

    Needs serious work in FC Cricket. He's 21, he has time, but at the moment, I'd consider other options. Would waste a spot on the team on current form.
    Match winning 100 your asking abit to much

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoaibbtt View Post
    Yep, my philosophy is for the test team if it ain't broke then don't fix it. The only thing that needs fixing is Pakistan's opening which is what is truly struggling and is currently the weakest link.

    Shadab needs to work on a format at a time and not focus on playing all 3 formats just now.

    For me the following is the playing XI against Zimbabwe in the first test:

    1. Abdullah Shafique (trial him now for peak's sake)
    2. Imran Butt
    3. Azhar Ali
    4. Babar Azam (c)
    5. Fawad Alam
    6. Muhammad Rizwan (wk)
    7. Faheem Ashraf
    8. Hassan Ali
    9. Nuaman Ali
    10. Zahid Mehmood
    11. Tabish Khan (resting Shaheen for Tabish, however won't be surprised if Shaheen is retained)
    What about saud shakeel in terms of skill hes right up thier with babar

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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    What about saud shakeel in terms of skill hes right up thier with babar
    How do you fit Shakeel in when the middle order is set?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoaibbtt View Post
    How do you fit Shakeel in when the middle order is set?
    If it was my choice it be the following.

    Imran butt
    Azhar
    Babar
    Fawad
    Saud

    No way does abdullah get in the starting xi even if it is Zimbabwe.push every up a position but also keep the core of the team.saud averages 40+.abdullah should debut in the odis Against south africa thou.

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    One guy thinks fitness is enough to get a recall.

    The other one thinks skills are enough for a recall.


  44. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    Match winning 100 your asking abit to much
    Why is it too much to ask for? He is a self-appointed Steve Smith who forcefully promotes himself to the top-order and wants to be viewed as a genuine all-rounder.

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    Until Shadab improves his bowling significantly he hasn't place even in limited overs side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoaibbtt View Post
    Yep, my philosophy is for the test team if it ain't broke then don't fix it. The only thing that needs fixing is Pakistan's opening which is what is truly struggling and is currently the weakest link.

    Shadab needs to work on a format at a time and not focus on playing all 3 formats just now.

    For me the following is the playing XI against Zimbabwe in the first test:

    1. Abdullah Shafique (trial him now for peak's sake)
    2. Imran Butt
    3. Azhar Ali
    4. Babar Azam (c)
    5. Fawad Alam
    6. Muhammad Rizwan (wk)
    7. Faheem Ashraf
    8. Hassan Ali
    9. Nuaman Ali
    10. Zahid Mehmood
    11. Tabish Khan (resting Shaheen for Tabish, however won't be surprised if Shaheen is retained)
    For how much T20 Cricket Shadab has played, he's not even that far ahead of Usman Qadir and Zahid Mahmood. They look pretty similar, and on the basis of skills, they're at the same level, at times Zahid and Usman show more skills. Shadab lost his ability to spin the ball, and that's also because of his action. He crosses his entire body over his foot which is why he sustained a groin injury.

    Shadab doesn't merit a spot on the test team at the moment. However, someone like Nawaz could be a good experimentation in test matches, just to see what dimension he brings to the game. If Nawaz can improve his bowling in FC, he could really challenge a spot on the team.

  47. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    Match winning 100 your asking abit to much
    Not really. All-rounders on most teams have contributed with hundreds. Jadeja, Ashwin, Shakib, Stokes, and more. I meant in test matches by the way.

    If Shadab wants a spot, he needs to try to be one of the best. He can't settle for 50s and 40s, he needs to go the whole way if he's on the team as a batsman. If he's playing as a bowling all-rounder, he needs to make sure that he's taking wickets and bowling consistently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    If it was my choice it be the following.

    Imran butt
    Azhar
    Babar
    Fawad
    Saud

    No way does abdullah get in the starting xi even if it is Zimbabwe.push every up a position but also keep the core of the team.saud averages 40+.abdullah should debut in the odis Against south africa thou.
    Yep that would be much better in my view seeing as Azhar pretty much played as an opener for the last 2 series.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    For how much T20 Cricket Shadab has played, he's not even that far ahead of Usman Qadir and Zahid Mahmood. They look pretty similar, and on the basis of skills, they're at the same level, at times Zahid and Usman show more skills. Shadab lost his ability to spin the ball, and that's also because of his action. He crosses his entire body over his foot which is why he sustained a groin injury.

    Shadab doesn't merit a spot on the test team at the moment. However, someone like Nawaz could be a good experimentation in test matches, just to see what dimension he brings to the game. If Nawaz can improve his bowling in FC, he could really challenge a spot on the team.
    He did well in first class but i think Agha might be in the running for now.

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    I'm glad Shadab's admitted himself his primary suit is bowling because his supporters keep downplaying his bowling deficiencies claiming he's a batting all-rounder. So let's analyse his bowling.

    Many young spinners enjoy a honeymoon period at the start of their careers. Opponents lacking in footage and prior experience are caught out. Shadab was the breakout star of PSL 2017 and made merry in his debut international series against a weak West Indies team vulnerable against spin. He was hurried into Test cricket despite scant FC experience.

    With every spinner the challenge comes when opponents start doing their homework against you. That honeymoon period is only sustained if you can fall back on your stock ball, and that's where Shadab's struggled. Think Saqlain Mushtaq and how quickly he declined after his late 1990s peak. He relied so much on his doosra that batsmen played him as a legspinner. He also played large volumes of county cricket which meant not only was he overexposed but his knees gave out. In Shadab's breakout PSL, he was outfoxing the batsmen with googlies not with a consistently turning legbreak.

    The alarm bells starting ringing for me in the 2018 Ireland Test, he bowls 30 overs on a dry 3rd innings pitch and takes only one wicket against a notoriously bad team against spin, meaning Pakistan had an awkward chase of 160 they nearly mucked up. They read him easily, as did a second string Leicestershire team (a Div 2 County) in one of the side matches. Against England at Old Trafford last year, he was given only 8 overs in the 4th innings despite being the second spinner !

    Without substantial FC exposure, he's never developed any control or knowhow to set up batsmen. When he tries to slow down and flight the ball, he gives away full tosses. And he's played so much white ball cricket he's often not been fully fit, and overexposed himself.

    To be fair, legspin is a very difficult art. Yasir Shah, a vastly more experienced bowler with 235 Test wickets, still struggles with his control yet Shadab's been asked to learn his craft in international cricket in all formats. Part of developing young talent is knowing when to take them out of the firing line, so for Shadab's sake strip him of the Vice Captaincy, ask him to play two full seasons of QEA Trophy and let the boy earn a recall. He'll be better for it.

  51. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    I'm glad Shadab's admitted himself his primary suit is bowling because his supporters keep downplaying his bowling deficiencies claiming he's a batting all-rounder. So let's analyse his bowling.

    Many young spinners enjoy a honeymoon period at the start of their careers. Opponents lacking in footage and prior experience are caught out. Shadab was the breakout star of PSL 2017 and made merry in his debut international series against a weak West Indies team vulnerable against spin. He was hurried into Test cricket despite scant FC experience.

    With every spinner the challenge comes when opponents start doing their homework against you. That honeymoon period is only sustained if you can fall back on your stock ball, and that's where Shadab's struggled. Think Saqlain Mushtaq and how quickly he declined after his late 1990s peak. He relied so much on his doosra that batsmen played him as a legspinner. He also played large volumes of county cricket which meant not only was he overexposed but his knees gave out. In Shadab's breakout PSL, he was outfoxing the batsmen with googlies not with a consistently turning legbreak.

    The alarm bells starting ringing for me in the 2018 Ireland Test, he bowls 30 overs on a dry 3rd innings pitch and takes only one wicket against a notoriously bad team against spin, meaning Pakistan had an awkward chase of 160 they nearly mucked up. They read him easily, as did a second string Leicestershire team (a Div 2 County) in one of the side matches. Against England at Old Trafford last year, he was given only 8 overs in the 4th innings despite being the second spinner !

    Without substantial FC exposure, he's never developed any control or knowhow to set up batsmen. When he tries to slow down and flight the ball, he gives away full tosses. And he's played so much white ball cricket he's often not been fully fit, and overexposed himself.

    To be fair, legspin is a very difficult art. Yasir Shah, a vastly more experienced bowler with 235 Test wickets, still struggles with his control yet Shadab's been asked to learn his craft in international cricket in all formats. Part of developing young talent is knowing when to take them out of the firing line, so for Shadab's sake strip him of the Vice Captaincy, ask him to play two full seasons of QEA Trophy and let the boy earn a recall. He'll be better for it.
    Completely agree. It sums up this situation perfectly.

    He should play as a bowler, who can bat a bit if needed. He needs to go back to domestic.

  52. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    I'm glad Shadab's admitted himself his primary suit is bowling because his supporters keep downplaying his bowling deficiencies claiming he's a batting all-rounder. So let's analyse his bowling.

    Many young spinners enjoy a honeymoon period at the start of their careers. Opponents lacking in footage and prior experience are caught out. Shadab was the breakout star of PSL 2017 and made merry in his debut international series against a weak West Indies team vulnerable against spin. He was hurried into Test cricket despite scant FC experience.

    With every spinner the challenge comes when opponents start doing their homework against you. That honeymoon period is only sustained if you can fall back on your stock ball, and that's where Shadab's struggled. Think Saqlain Mushtaq and how quickly he declined after his late 1990s peak. He relied so much on his doosra that batsmen played him as a legspinner. He also played large volumes of county cricket which meant not only was he overexposed but his knees gave out. In Shadab's breakout PSL, he was outfoxing the batsmen with googlies not with a consistently turning legbreak.

    The alarm bells starting ringing for me in the 2018 Ireland Test, he bowls 30 overs on a dry 3rd innings pitch and takes only one wicket against a notoriously bad team against spin, meaning Pakistan had an awkward chase of 160 they nearly mucked up. They read him easily, as did a second string Leicestershire team (a Div 2 County) in one of the side matches. Against England at Old Trafford last year, he was given only 8 overs in the 4th innings despite being the second spinner !

    Without substantial FC exposure, he's never developed any control or knowhow to set up batsmen. When he tries to slow down and flight the ball, he gives away full tosses. And he's played so much white ball cricket he's often not been fully fit, and overexposed himself.

    To be fair, legspin is a very difficult art. Yasir Shah, a vastly more experienced bowler with 235 Test wickets, still struggles with his control yet Shadab's been asked to learn his craft in international cricket in all formats. Part of developing young talent is knowing when to take them out of the firing line, so for Shadab's sake strip him of the Vice Captaincy, ask him to play two full seasons of QEA Trophy and let the boy earn a recall. He'll be better for it.
    Yes, leg spin is one of the most difficult arts in cricket and if someone wants to be an leg spin all rounder, the leg spin part has to take priority. That is why leg spin all rounders in cricket have been a rarity.

    Its good that he understands that he plays as bowling all rounder as majority of his training should go towards fine tuning his leg spin. His natural skills as a batsman are good to have and he should work upon them as well in his extra time.

    With the modern day technology with detailed analysis of any bowler the unorthodox part of leg spinners has a very short time span to surprise the batsmen. That is why we have seen leg spinners who debuted in last 3-4 years are facing a decline after good starts as we can see in cases of Chahal and Kuldeep. One thing I have observed is that when that novelty factor wears of then their basics as a leg spinner come in the limelight which to be honest is not the strength of most recent leg spinners as they are neither consistent with their line and length nor with their spin.

    Further when it comes to test cricket, leg spin has almost got out of picture except for Yasir Shah. There is no leg spinner in world cricket who makes the 11 regularly or to have even 50 wickets in test cricket if I am not wrong in last decade except Amir Mishra and Yasir Shah. Even previously it was a difficult art but, now with inability of leg spinners to consistently ball in one area while they are trying different tricks in T20s makes them ineffective at test level.

  53. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    Not really. All-rounders on most teams have contributed with hundreds. Jadeja, Ashwin, Shakib, Stokes, and more. I meant in test matches by the way.

    If Shadab wants a spot, he needs to try to be one of the best. He can't settle for 50s and 40s, he needs to go the whole way if he's on the team as a batsman. If he's playing as a bowling all-rounder, he needs to make sure that he's taking wickets and bowling consistently.
    Stokes,shakib all bat in the top 6.

    As for jadeja he doesnt have a 100 in tests averages 36 with the bat and 24 with the ball. Ok stats but no match winning 100 !


    Ashwin averages 28 with the bat with 5 hundreds but 5 are against west indies however his bowling is world class.

    Shadab hasnt really played in asain conditions were ashwin,jadeja have.

  54. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    Stokes,shakib all bat in the top 6.

    As for jadeja he doesnt have a 100 in tests averages 36 with the bat and 24 with the ball. Ok stats but no match winning 100 !


    Ashwin averages 28 with the bat with 5 hundreds but 5 are against west indies however his bowling is world class.

    Shadab hasnt really played in asain conditions were ashwin,jadeja have.
    Shadab has been unfit whenever there has been a test series in Asia. Because of that, he lost his spot on the test side.

    His first class numbers aren't great either, so one wouldn't expect his performances to change regardless of conditions.

  55. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    Shadab has been unfit whenever there has been a test series in Asia. Because of that, he lost his spot on the test side.

    His first class numbers aren't great either, so one wouldn't expect his performances to change regardless of conditions.
    Can you give examples when he was fit when series has been played in asia.Just like root showed india how great of a spinner he is in india.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    Can you give examples when he was fit when series has been played in asia.Just like root showed india how great of a spinner he is in india.
    Root bowled on Indian wickets.

    Look at the wickets we prepared against SL and BD. Did Yasir even get the ball to turn enough? No would be the obvious answer.

    The pitch against SAF in Karachi was a turning track, but was he fit? No is the answer again.

    Indian wickets, particularly the wickets Root bowled on, were good for spinners. The track in Pindi was a flat bed, and it is absurd how no team managed to cross 400 runs on a good batting surface.

    Shadab himself doesn't know his role in the test team. If he were playing as a bowling all rounder, he would have bowled more overs in England, when the pitch would have assisted him.

    Needless to say, he should be kept away from the test format, and on recent form, he should not be our spinner in white ball cricket either.

  57. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    Root bowled on Indian wickets.

    Look at the wickets we prepared against SL and BD. Did Yasir even get the ball to turn enough? No would be the obvious answer.

    The pitch against SAF in Karachi was a turning track, but was he fit? No is the answer again.

    Indian wickets, particularly the wickets Root bowled on, were good for spinners. The track in Pindi was a flat bed, and it is absurd how no team managed to cross 400 runs on a good batting surface.

    Shadab himself doesn't know his role in the test team. If he were playing as a bowling all rounder, he would have bowled more overs in England, when the pitch would have assisted him.

    Needless to say, he should be kept away from the test format, and on recent form, he should not be our spinner in white ball cricket either.
    Yasir only turns the ball later on in a test match 4th,5th day he doesnt turn the ball early on he relies on variations like he did against south africa.

    The pitch in england will suit him but not Pakistan really ?.

    Shadab should be playing as a second spinner and batting at 7 in sena conditions.

    In asain conditions i cant comment on that becouse he hasnt played in them conditions.and the above you mentioned have

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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    Yasir only turns the ball later on in a test match 4th,5th day he doesnt turn the ball early on he relies on variations like he did against south africa.

    The pitch in england will suit him but not Pakistan really ?.

    Shadab should be playing as a second spinner and batting at 7 in sena conditions.

    In asain conditions i cant comment on that becouse he hasnt played in them conditions.and the above you mentioned have
    The pitch at Old Trafford had rough spots on it, and it was a respectable decision for Pakistan to play Shadab there.

    Yasir Shah is miles above Shadab Khan, and if Yasir didn't get wickets against SL and BD, what makes you think Shadab would have?

    Shadab is not remotely as good a spinner to be reliable with the ball. Neither was Zafar Gohar as per the results in New Zealand.

    The options left to test are Nawaz and Salman Ali Agha. Shadab has no place on the test team given his current poor form.

  59. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    The pitch at Old Trafford had rough spots on it, and it was a respectable decision for Pakistan to play Shadab there.

    Yasir Shah is miles above Shadab Khan, and if Yasir didn't get wickets against SL and BD, what makes you think Shadab would have?

    Shadab is not remotely as good a spinner to be reliable with the ball. Neither was Zafar Gohar as per the results in New Zealand.

    The options left to test are Nawaz and Salman Ali Agha. Shadab has no place on the test team given his current poor form.
    Rough spots first day lol so bisicaly if a pitch has rough spots they can play him.

    Are you stating you see shadab as a bowling all rounder and has to be perform as a bowling all rounder.

    I do not see him as a bowling all rounder i see him as a batting all rounder in sena you do not need a proper spinner they are harsky going to win you games baring here or thier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    If he's going to bat at number 6 then he will be up against the likes of Fawad Alam etc. Is he better than the likes of Fawad to bat at 6 is the question that needs to be asked.
    Pakistan should always go with 5 batsman 1 WK 2 AR 3 bowlers combination especially in SENA tests, and it is only when they have challenged the opposition, came close to a win...

    In SENA tests Shadab and Faheem both should play...

  61. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ask_analyse_act View Post
    Pakistan should always go with 5 batsman 1 WK 2 AR 3 bowlers combination especially in SENA tests, and it is only when they have challenged the opposition, came close to a win...

    In SENA tests Shadab and Faheem both should play...
    Exactly i agree with that formula to

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    Quote Originally Posted by shamaan View Post
    Exactly i agree with that formula to
    It is quite obvious that this is the best combination but somehow the pakistan think tank doesnt seem to realise.. I dont know what the analysts or the statisticians in the support staffs are doing..

    Also they are reluctant to try and bowl the part-timers.. but other countries tend to give ball to jp duminy, root, raina, maxwell, williamson etc.. Why im saying this is because Haris Sohail who was a very decent left arm spin bowler, doesnt get the ball as much as other teams do, be it tests or LOIs...

  63. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ask_analyse_act View Post
    It is quite obvious that this is the best combination but somehow the pakistan think tank doesnt seem to realise.. I dont know what the analysts or the statisticians in the support staffs are doing..

    Also they are reluctant to try and bowl the part-timers.. but other countries tend to give ball to jp duminy, root, raina, maxwell, williamson etc.. Why im saying this is because Haris Sohail who was a very decent left arm spin bowler, doesnt get the ball as much as other teams do, be it tests or LOIs...
    Defonitely Haris is proberly more than a part time spinner i think he was quite decent


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