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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    This is the law as of now"


    So what do you want to change it to
    Right so then umpires need to get their head straight because that was as wilful as it gets.
    Only few people, those like yourself, will see it differently.

  2. #162
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    Absolutely unethical. And illegal too. Hate that stupid laugh on his face after Fakhar got out. No need to resort to such cheap tactics. Fakhar deserved that double century. The ICC should ensure that the rules they have formulated themselves must be taken seriously and applied. If you don't want to implement a rule then scrap it. Don't make a mockery out of your own rulebook.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    Right so then umpires need to get their head straight because that was as wilful as it gets.
    Only few people, those like yourself, will see it differently.
    I just accept that the umpires have made a decision, I dont really go into the semantics and think I have some form of superior decision making abilities.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    They will look silly if they complain about the ball hitting Bavumas cap.
    Why will we look silly?? Law is the law, so why would it be classed as silly if the law is broken and we deserved penalty runs?

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Deal View Post
    Why will we look silly?? Law is the law, so why would it be classed as silly if the law is broken and we deserved penalty runs?
    Trust me, if they complain about the ball hitting Bavumas cap they will look silly.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    Yes of course if matters and it doesn't matter of it was FZ who was batting our Mr XYZ from Timbuktu...
    Or for that matter whether the game was won or lost.

    You do get it don't you?
    Uhmmm no.
    Match was lost that is all that matters.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    Anybody who thinks there is ambiguity that de Kock didn't try to willfully mislead Fakhar needs to visit an eye doctor.

    Whether you like the rules or not doesn't change the fact that they are the rules.
    Agreed. It is clearly stated in the rules.

  8. #168
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    Irrespective of this, we all know how much a beta male QDK is. His insipid pathetic captaincy and leadership skills were on full display when he surrendered to Pakistan in the recently ended test series. Zero spark to his abilities. An absolutely pathetic captain and a player who has turned out to be overrated. I fully expect such petty behavior from a guy like him. Screams beta male mentality.

  9. #169
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    That's just a high IQ play.

    This happens a lot on the cricket field but usually doesn't work.


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I hope my final post can also provide closure to this thread.

    Look, here is the deal.

    Pakistan lost the match fair & square. As far as the Fakhar run-out is concerned, we can bicker over the rules all we want and demonize de Kock all we want.

    However, the reality is that Fakhar had absolutely no business getting distracted or fooled by him.

    He was on 193 and the team needed a 6 of every delivery left and he was batting with a tail-ender.

    It wasn’t his concern or his problem if Rauf was getting run-out, because Fakhar had to be on strike in any case and his only concern at that point should have been to get back to his crease as quickly as possible.

    If he got distracted, it is his own fault for exhibiting a momentary lapse in concentration and proving himself to be yet another Pakistani player who lacks match-awareness and doesn’t keep his head in the game at all times.

    There is literally no reason and no justification why he should have been worried about Rauf getting run-out at that point.

    When your only concern is to get back to your crease as soon as possible, you do not look back and slow down just because of the WK’s gesture.

    Did de Kock break the law? Maybe he did.

    Did Fakhar make a mistake? Yes, 100%.

    That is all.
    I love it how it is always Pakistan's or a Pakistani Individuals fault but someone else is always to blame whenever a non-Pakistani country or a non-Pakistani individual is concerned in Mamoon World.

  11. #171
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    It pains me to say this, but Fakhar is at fault here. Not only did he slow down towards the second run, he retracted his bat before the crease.

    His concentration lapsed for a split second where he took the opposition for granted. Bad mistake. Ended up missing out on a double ton; win or lose.

    None the less, a sterling effort by FZ! Pity no Pakistani batsman stuck around at the crease to enjoy it with you!

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I just accept that the umpires have made a decision, I dont really go into the semantics and think I have some form of superior decision making abilities.
    Did they really make a decision? I didn't see them get together and talk about it. They didn't even consider it. That's what people are discussing.

    Besides, you're acting as if such things have never been discussed by anyone in the past and it's only here in PP that we're obsessed with discussing application of the laws.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistani pride View Post
    Uhmmm no.
    Match was lost that is all that matters.
    The point is not about Pakistan winning or losing, it's about the law and umpires upholding the law. They can't just pick and choose which law they want to uphold.

    On a side note. Win or lose, if it were Rizwan doing this to say Warner or Smith, do you think either of them would just trudge off to the pavilion?
    Last edited by sweep_shot; 5th April 2021 at 06:22.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Third Man View Post
    Did they really make a decision? I didn't see them get together and talk about it. They didn't even consider it. That's what people are discussing.

    Besides, you're acting as if such things have never been discussed by anyone in the past and it's only here in PP that we're obsessed with discussing application of the laws.
    And the reason they didn't discuss it was because there was nothing to discuss.

    DK wasn't even expecting the ball to come to his end, If the batsman had of kept running he would have made it easily even with the direct hit. DK was telling the fielder to throw to the bowlers end and for other fielders to back the throw. He was surprised the ball was thrown to his end and didn;t realize it was out until he noticed the batsmans bat was not grounded and thats why he pointed to the batsman to tell his teammates that his bat was in the air and they got the runout.

    There is nothing in it at all period.

  15. #175
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    According to the laws, the dismissal shouldn’t be valid, plus the 5 runs as a penalty. That and the 5 additional runs for the hat incident would have effectively made it 21 required from the last 5. Pakistan would’ve had a chance then, but anyway no point arguing ifs and buts. Hopefully we’ll come back stronger and the rest of the batsmen can actually step up.
    Last edited by sweep_shot; 5th April 2021 at 06:21.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    Smart move! Glad Fakhar didn't break Anwar's record - if you're that silly, you do not deserve any such records.
    What! Didn't he score a double hundred against Zimbabwe in the past?


    If there is a better batsman than Sachin then he hasn't arrived yet: Viv Richards

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    DK wasn't even expecting the ball to come to his end, If the batsman had of kept running he would have made it easily even with the direct hit. DK was telling the fielder to throw to the bowlers end and for other fielders to back the throw. He was surprised the ball was thrown to his end and didn;t realize it was out until he noticed the batsmans bat was not grounded and thats why he pointed to the batsman to tell his teammates that his bat was in the air and they got the runout.
    QDK knew he had the bowl coming his way when he again pointed towards the bowlers end. Fakhar like any batting partner looked behind that where his partner was at as the bowl was supposed going towards his partner’s end taking into account QDK’s gesture when ball was clearly already coming towards QDK’s end. Nobody is trying to say that Fakhar shouldnt have looked at his own running rather a law is being discussed here.

    As per the law it can fall under distracting the batsman but obviously none of us are here to judge that and as you mentioned in your previous post it is at umpire’s discretion. However, just like any on field captain, bowler etc is allowed to inquire from the umpire a team management of any team has the right for a polite inquiry at the end of the match that why the rule wasnt applicable here. Same is the case with ball hitting Bavuma’s hat, a point raised by SA commies as well.
    Last edited by Titan24; 5th April 2021 at 06:27.

  18. #178
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    Some people are saying that its Fakhar fault, that he should have been more aware and careful. The thing is humans are instinctive and are easily distracted. If i am making runs and some one tell me from behind that the ball is going to hit my back, when in fact it is not, then i am going to assume that it is going to hit me and my body will react instinctively. Watch prank videos on youtube to get the idea.

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    And the reason they didn't discuss it was because there was nothing to discuss.

    DK wasn't even expecting the ball to come to his end, If the batsman had of kept running he would have made it easily even with the direct hit. DK was telling the fielder to throw to the bowlers end and for other fielders to back the throw. He was surprised the ball was thrown to his end and didn;t realize it was out until he noticed the batsmans bat was not grounded and thats why he pointed to the batsman to tell his teammates that his bat was in the air and they got the runout.

    There is nothing in it at all period.
    There is naivety and there is this. If you truly believe what you wrote, it'd be quite shocking tbh! Anyone with half a brain would know what QDK was trying to do, if nothing else, his reaction makes it clear. He made the gesture when the ball was already half way there btw.
    Last edited by sweep_shot; 5th April 2021 at 07:02.

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman View Post
    What! Didn't he score a double hundred against Zimbabwe in the past?
    Oh, if he did, my bad then. I also wasn't aware of the rule when I wrote that, so I'll say this:

    While I think the rule is stupid, QDK did break the rule here and should be punished for it. However, that doesn't absolve fakhar of any blame. You are responsible for protecting your wicket and what he did there was very irresponsible for such an experienced player.


  21. #181
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    Poor from QDK

  22. #182
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    2 proteas lost my respect....earlier it was AB...now QDK......really poor

  23. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
    Oh, if he did, my bad then. I also wasn't aware of the rule when I wrote that, so I'll say this:

    While I think the rule is stupid, QDK did break the rule here and should be punished for it. However, that doesn't absolve fakhar of any blame. You are responsible for protecting your wicket and what he did there was very irresponsible for such an experienced player.
    Fakhar ia robbed of his double 4 sure....

  24. #184
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    Qdk was definitely aiming to fool Fakhar, which was fine till recently- i have seen Sangakkara, Dhoni too deceive batsmen in similar fashion in the past. But with the recent rule change it is illegal now to deceive the batsman - though it is actually hard to prove the intention here. But what the heck were the umpires doing?

    Also, blame should be placed on the team management - heck, they try to be good boys all the time & give benefit of doubt to everyone. Wish we had somebody like Kohli or Shastri in the team who would have given it back to SA/umpires publicly!

  25. #185
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    In North America - When they teach you driving, and you are waiting on a green signal to turn left but waiting for car from the other side is still coming - you obviously wait, the driver of that car turn his own left signal so its safe to assume he will on the same signal and you proceed to turn left on green as you see it's safe now - NEVER TRUST THAT GUYS SIGNAL, the car can still come straight, you wait as it could be a mistake.
    Point is you do you job, don't get distracted - this what separates professionals

  26. #186
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    The way he pointed out Fakhar and laughed at him, indicates that he did it 100% internationally.
    There is no other way around it.

  27. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECB View Post
    In North America - When they teach you driving, and you are waiting on a green signal to turn left but waiting for car from the other side is still coming - you obviously wait, the driver of that car turn his own left signal so its safe to assume he will on the same signal and you proceed to turn left on green as you see it's safe now - NEVER TRUST THAT GUYS SIGNAL, the car can still come straight, you wait as it could be a mistake.
    Point is you do you job, don't get distracted - this what separates professionals
    I wager a tired guy, batting full innings in incredible heat will 100% make that mistake. There is no way Fakhar would have made that mistake if he was not. He was literally struggling and almost following down in previous runs. And 99.9% of batsmen at stage would make that mistake

    Point is, why have rules if you don't follow them? Scrap them


    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect. --Mark Twain

  28. #188
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    De Kock is a cheeky bugger, isn't he. Clearly this should have been penalised by Umpires.
    Pakistan have every right to be felt cheated and they must take it to the match referee.

    If I am in interviewer, I would ask DK next time that will he pull this stunt next time against Rohit Sharma.
    Also, do peeps here really think Australian/Indian/England Captains would have taken this nonsense.

    Ravi Shastri by now would have boomed into match referees room to have a word.

  29. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by dildilpak View Post
    Qdk was definitely aiming to fool Fakhar, which was fine till recently- i have seen Sangakkara, Dhoni too deceive batsmen in similar fashion in the past. But with the recent rule change it is illegal now to deceive the batsman - though it is actually hard to prove the intention here. But what the heck were the umpires doing?

    Also, blame should be placed on the team management - heck, they try to be good boys all the time & give benefit of doubt to everyone. Wish we had somebody like Kohli or Shastri in the team who would have given it back to SA/umpires publicly!
    tbf in Dhoni's case.. he just gave no expression and kept a neutral face. Sanga was quiet cheeky, i remember he tried to fool Shehzad and poor guy put in a useless dive and almost injured himself.

    Sanga is also now MCC President

  30. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoshiarpurexpress View Post
    tbf in Dhoni's case.. he just gave no expression and kept a neutral face. Sanga was quiet cheeky, i remember he tried to fool Shehzad and poor guy put in a useless dive and almost injured himself.

    Sanga is also now MCC President
    Back then there was no rule under which players could be penalised.

    Now ICC has introduced rule and it is the responsibility of umpires and match referee to intervene.

  31. #191
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    More pictures



    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  32. #192
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    Mcc has given statement

    Its up to the umpires to decide


    "Life is Pain"
    ~House~

  33. #193
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    Warner was right in saying lot of things to De Kock . He is cheat hiding behind his babyface

  34. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    Mcc has given statement

    Its up to the umpires to decide





    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  35. #195
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    MCC has cleared this up.

    So it means it should had been 24 needed of 5 balls. Dammit was gettable

    I think what Pakistan can do is mankad QDK.


    "Life is Pain"
    ~House~

  36. #196
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    It's clearly a violation of the law, there can be no misinterpretation. The umpires weren't aware of the rule, nor were Pakistan. You can't blame any of the batsmen at the crease, but surely someone in the team management should have been apprised of the law change in 2017.

    The fact that the umpires took no action at the time means that nothing can be done now, as there can't be retrospective application. It was up to Misbah or Babar to complain at the time of the act.

  37. #197
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    The more I think about it, the more I feel it was poor sportsmanship.

    South Africa would still have won, but the dismissal left a bitter taste.



  38. #198
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    Do De Kock cheat to get Fakhar Run out in the last over?

    I don´t know what the laws actually say on this, so I´ll skip that bit and just say that I personally didn´t like it much. A little embarrassing in my view. Having said that, a great part of the blame still lies with Fakhar, mind you. His job was to get back on strike regardless of what was happening at the other end. He should´ve simply got his down down and run to complete the second run. A little sad, as he missed out on a very well deserved double hundred. What an innings!

    Again, as for de Kock, Dhoni would do something similar, mind you. However, he wouldn´t fake as to which end the throw was coming towards. He would stand still and unmoved, giving the batsman running in the impression that the ball hadn´t been collected yet or that the ball wasn´t coming to his end, only to collect it at the last second to inflict the run out. He fooled the batsman at least a couple of times from what I remember.


    "It sounds like you have a great strength of character and strong will" - Ellyse Perry about me.

  39. #199
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    What's wrong with fake fielding/fake throwing.. There shouldn't be any law against this.. In that case pacers shouldn't allow to bowl slow balls, they're too deceiving batsman doing that.. It's batsman job to watch the ball..

  40. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    MCC has cleared this up.

    So it means it should had been 24 needed of 5 balls. Dammit was gettable

    I think what Pakistan can do is mankad QDK.
    The umpires would have had to call it dead ball to so it would have been 24 off 6 which is very gettable, this should have been escalated on field

  41. #201
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    Even if the over is replayed, there's no point. Fakhar will not be in the same zone plus the SA bowlers refreshed.

    Bitter end to a sweet innings.

  42. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    The umpires would have had to call it dead ball to so it would have been 24 off 6 which is very gettable, this should have been escalated on field
    Plzz stop telling us more it hurts.

    However, ever since that world cup which NZ was robbEd these defeats dont hurt as much


    "Life is Pain"
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  43. #203
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    It was more De Kock's reaction at the end when he pointed and laughed, that was really really poor form for a veteran like him.

  44. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    The umpires would have had to call it dead ball to so it would have been 24 off 6 which is very gettable, this should have been escalated on field
    Please don't forget the ball falling on the hat. Given atleast extra 5 from that.
    So actual equation would have been 18 or 19 from 6 balls.

  45. #205
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    https://www.hindustantimes.com/crick...627307506.html

    Pakistan opener Fakhar Zaman missed out on his second ODI double-century on Sunday night after getting run-out against South Africa in the 2nd ODI in Johannesburg. He was dismissed on 193 as Aiden Markram's direct hit from long-off caught him short of his crease. As a result, Babar Azam & Co lost the contest by 17 runs while chasing a 342-run target.

    This incident sparked a huge controversy and brought Proteas wicketkeeper Quinton de Kock under scrutiny who seemed to signal that the throw from Markram might be going to the non-striker's end. Looking at this gesture, Zaman slowed down as he thought the throw may not be coming at his end, but Markram took him by surprise.

    Former Pakistan pace legend Shoaib Akhtar has called De Kock’s act against the ‘good spirit of the game’. In the latest video on his YouTube channel, Akhtar said, “What Quinton de Kock did, I wouldn’t call it cheating, but it was not in the good spirit of the game.”

    Akhtar further mentioned Law 41 of the Laws of Cricket 2017 Code to support his argument, which clearly states that it is unfair for any fielder to obstruct or distract a batsman during a cricket match.

    “The spirit of the game was hurt which I didn’t like. Quinton de Kock is a great player and he shouldn’t do it deliberately. Fakhar thought that when the throw was made, it would come to the non-striker’s end and he [De Kock] also made the same gesture,” Akhtar said.

    “I felt bad because I wanted Fakhar to become the only Pakistani batsman to have two double centuries. If those penalty runs were given to Pakistan, they would have won the game easily. But I was disappointed that the decision wasn’t made then and there. There was no awareness of the game.

    “When the match-referee is watching everything, getting replays again and again but still, you are unable to make the decision. You make a referral for a no-ball, an edge… everything, but why they had a problem implementing the laws here. My biggest question is this,” he added.

  46. #206
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    Poor from QdK. From a baby face, he has now become a sneaky little fellow!

    A great innings from Fakhar though! Now he just needs to be bit more consistent.

  47. #207
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    The moment you look back you lose everything. 100% mistake lies at the feet of Fakar. Sad way to the end of great innings. Nobody in that situation would run like that. You would run like hell to the other end. You think Dhoni or Raina would run like that in that last over to regain the strike? Your goal should be to retain the strike not worry about non striker.

  48. #208
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    I'm used to American sports so this would be seen as clever as opposed to unsporting. In a sport where the bowler is not allowed to point to the dressing room after dismissing a batsman, the behavior of pointing and laughing at the batsman was unsporting from deKoch though - not enough for a fine in my opinion still.


    Have the players going forward, just need coaching&professionalism! #1 priority: fielding

  49. #209
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    South African wicketkeeper Quinton de Kock is unlikely to face any sanction over the run out of Fakhar Zaman during the Proteas' 17-run win in the second ODI, according to reports.

    After reviewing footage of the incident, match officials are believed to have come to the conclusion that de Kock was not in breach of the law on fielders deceiving batsmen. In the last over of the match, with Pakistan still needing 30 to win, de Kock seemingly gestured for South African Aiden Markram to throw to the bowler's end, where Haris Rauf was heading.

    Fakhar, who had struck an outstanding 193, looked behind him, away from the direction of the fielder, as he was running towards the wicketkeeper and was surprised when Markram's throw hit the stumps at that end.

    Social media immediately went into overdrive with cries that de Kock had violated the law on fake fielding which states that "it is unfair for any fielder wilfully to attempt, by word or action, to distract, deceive or obstruct either batsman after the striker has received the ball".

    Fakhar admitted after the match that he had been taken by surprise but did not attempt to deflect blame for the dismissal on to cheating by the South African wicketkeeper.

    "I was looking at Haris Rauf because I thought the run-out would be at his end. It was my own fault," he said at the post-match press conference.

    Officials are understood to have deemed that de Kock's actions were not a trick and that he was indicating for the throw to go to the bowler's end.

    South African fielder Tabraiz Shamsi tweeted on Monday that de Kock was calling for a fielder to back up the throw at the non-striker's end.

    "QDK was NOT speaking 2 or pointing at the batsman, he was asking a fielder to back up at the non strikers end," tweeted Shamsi.

    "Not Quinnys fault the batman turned around 2 see instead of completing the run safely which he should have done."

    NDTV


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  50. #210
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    It so unfortunate that, due to our standing in the cricketing world, blatant breach of rules against us are easily swept under the carpet. Anyone who has seen or played cricket and possesses even a bit of common sense would know what QDK was up to. It is so sad to see how ICC can easily brush this aside, knowing that Pakistan would not create much fuss about it.

    The official explanation, I believe, from SA is that QDK was instructing the fielder to throw to the bowlers end. This is a nonsensical explanation. Consider the following:

    - Look at the bowler when QDK is making this gesture. The bowler clearly knows that the throw is coming towards the keepers end. QDK is making that gesture when the throw has ALREADY been made!

    - Why in the world would QDK be looking straight if he's wanting the fielders attention? Look at how he's looking right down the pitch, to ensure he gets Fakhar's attention

    - Till the very last second, QDK is looking right down the pitch to make sure he doesn't give it away to Fakhar what he is doing. Are you telling me that he didn't know the throw was coming right to him till it was 3 feet away from him?

    If this wasn't deception, I really do not know what is. However, his act doesn't upset me, but its the unfair treatment that Pakistan is meted out day in and day out that is sad to watch. Players around the world kind of know that they can get away with almost anything against us.

  51. #211
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    Yet that poor Sri Lankan batsman was given out obstructing the field....

    How can the match referee come to this conclusion when the Safr captain himself said that what QDK was clever... surely that adds weight to it... it is the captain of the team afterall...

    One law for some and no law for others...

  52. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    South African wicketkeeper Quinton de Kock is unlikely to face any sanction over the run out of Fakhar Zaman during the Proteas' 17-run win in the second ODI, according to reports.

    After reviewing footage of the incident, match officials are believed to have come to the conclusion that de Kock was not in breach of the law on fielders deceiving batsmen. In the last over of the match, with Pakistan still needing 30 to win, de Kock seemingly gestured for South African Aiden Markram to throw to the bowler's end, where Haris Rauf was heading.

    Fakhar, who had struck an outstanding 193, looked behind him, away from the direction of the fielder, as he was running towards the wicketkeeper and was surprised when Markram's throw hit the stumps at that end.

    Social media immediately went into overdrive with cries that de Kock had violated the law on fake fielding which states that "it is unfair for any fielder wilfully to attempt, by word or action, to distract, deceive or obstruct either batsman after the striker has received the ball".

    Fakhar admitted after the match that he had been taken by surprise but did not attempt to deflect blame for the dismissal on to cheating by the South African wicketkeeper.

    "I was looking at Haris Rauf because I thought the run-out would be at his end. It was my own fault," he said at the post-match press conference.

    Officials are understood to have deemed that de Kock's actions were not a trick and that he was indicating for the throw to go to the bowler's end.

    South African fielder Tabraiz Shamsi tweeted on Monday that de Kock was calling for a fielder to back up the throw at the non-striker's end.

    "QDK was NOT speaking 2 or pointing at the batsman, he was asking a fielder to back up at the non strikers end," tweeted Shamsi.

    "Not Quinnys fault the batman turned around 2 see instead of completing the run safely which he should have done."

    NDTV
    Obviously SA team would have claimed that Qdk was gesturing to the fielder & not distracting the batsmen - such things are very hard to prove. But we all saw what happened out there & how Qdk was laughing after his trick actually worked . Not in the spirit of the game, but thanks to the local umpires (& ICC who never heeds to any criticism against umpires), he will not be taken to task.

  53. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    MCC has cleared this up.

    So it means it should had been 24 needed of 5 balls. Dammit was gettable

    I think what Pakistan can do is mankad QDK.
    Lol no it wasnt... highly improbable he wouldve chased it at best he wouldve gotten his 200.

    But his own fault for losing concentration and getting out.. stop blaming de cock for fakhar mistake.. its childish.

    No one slows down while getting a run.. fakhar had a brainnfart end of story.

  54. #214
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    That explanation from CSA is so lame, this wouldnt have happened against the big 3, there would have been a fine against QDK.

  55. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by princeuk View Post
    That explanation from CSA is so lame, this wouldnt have happened against the big 3, there would have been a fine against QDK.
    If QDK had tried that he'd have already been publicly licking the boot by now. If it was against India he'd never play IPL again and effigys would be burned in the streets.

    There's no actual recourse for Pakistan here. The best play is to move on and stop talking about it and ensure the Saffers get a stuffing in the next game.

  56. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir-fraz View Post
    Lol no it wasnt... highly improbable he wouldve chased it at best he wouldve gotten his 200.

    But his own fault for losing concentration and getting out.. stop blaming de cock for fakhar mistake.. its childish.

    No one slows down while getting a run.. fakhar had a brainnfart end of story.
    You do realize that those two things aren't mutually exclusive, right?

  57. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitthestump View Post
    If QDK had tried that he'd have already been publicly licking the boot by now. If it was against India he'd never play IPL again and effigys would be burned in the streets.

    There's no actual recourse for Pakistan here. The best play is to move on and stop talking about it and ensure the Saffers get a stuffing in the next game.
    You are forgetting one thing, if QDK had of done this against India it would not be an issue, not all teams cry about little things like this.

  58. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    You are forgetting one thing, if QDK had of done this against India it would not be an issue, not all teams cry about little things like this.
    Totally agree with you. Virat Kohli is well known to be a guy who lets things slide. It must just be something in the water over in Pakistan.

  59. #219
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    In times of pressure, one’s character is revealed.

    FZ showed he had the heart of a lion while De Kock did his surname justice.

  60. #220
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    man people here is acting like child, so there is no fault when Fakhar stopped for a second to look at non striker end to check on Rauf, but its fault of decock who was just trying to play mind game with Fakhar who kind of had a brain fade moment in otherwise a great knock. stop acting like its DeCocks fault when he is not at fault end.

  61. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumper View Post
    man people here is acting like child, so there is no fault when Fakhar stopped for a second to look at non striker end to check on Rauf, but its fault of decock who was just trying to play mind game with Fakhar who kind of had a brain fade moment in otherwise a great knock. stop acting like its DeCocks fault when he is not at fault end.
    Would love to see you post this if it was Dhawan and not Fakhar.

  62. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitthestump View Post
    If QDK had tried that he'd have already been publicly licking the boot by now. If it was against India he'd never play IPL again and effigys would be burned in the streets.

    There's no actual recourse for Pakistan here. The best play is to move on and stop talking about it and ensure the Saffers get a stuffing in the next game.
    In which age are you living?lol.Effigy burning of cricketers, doesn't happen anymore in India,you are getting overboard

  63. #223
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    Since my last post I've come to know that QDK broke a cricket law.

    This is ridiculous and unfair of us. We are always victims to dodgy antics by opposing players and dodging umpiring.

    We should demand that we are awarded extra runs in the next game. Enough is enough

  64. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by ufcfan View Post
    In which age are you living?lol.Effigy burning of cricketers, doesn't happen anymore in India,you are getting overboard
    https://www.firstpost.com/photos/bur...s-2176045.html

    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...s-1705554.html

    Maybe it all stopped in 2015?

  65. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raja Ishtiaq View Post
    We are always victims to dodgy antics by opposing players and dodging umpiring.

    We should demand that we are awarded extra runs in the next game. Enough is enough
    From match fixing, chronic ball tampering to our ridiculous home umpires in the 80's/90's i'd say we definitely cannot use this argument

    No team has ever been awarded extra runs in the next game so i'd be pretty sure no law exists where this can happen. ICC has already declared no further action will be taken on the matter.

    It's time for all of us to accept it and move on. Continuing to whine about it will only serve a self-detrimental purpose now.

  66. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitthestump View Post
    From match fixing, chronic ball tampering to our ridiculous home umpires in the 80's/90's i'd say we definitely cannot use this argument

    No team has ever been awarded extra runs in the next game so i'd be pretty sure no law exists where this can happen. ICC has already declared no further action will be taken on the matter.

    It's time for all of us to accept it and move on. Continuing to whine about it will only serve a self-detrimental purpose now.
    If existing laws aren't being applied when we need them then why should we care if there are no laws in place to award us runs?

    We should demand runs no matter what. Protest. Do whatever to make the world take notice of what has happened. Only this way other people would know that we aren't the ones to be messed around with

  67. #227
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    Fakhar should have objected. What can the umpires do if the player themselves don't object.

    Regardless of what the rulebook says, this run-out was clearly against the spirit of cricket and worth bringing it to attention of MR.

  68. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raja Ishtiaq View Post
    If existing laws aren't being applied when we need them then why should we care if there are no laws in place to award us runs?

    We should demand runs no matter what. Protest. Do whatever to make the world take notice of what has happened. Only this way other people would know that we aren't the ones to be messed around with
    Brother, if you know you can't win a battle sometimes the next best thing is not to fight.

    Pakistanis can protest til the cows come home. Nobody will care. Pakistan cricket has no standing in the world today. The only likely outcomes are a loss of dignity and a ruining a relationship with a board when we already have enough weak relations with other members.

    QDK might have misbehaved (that in itself remains up for debate) but we shouldn't forget that SAF have recently sent a team to Pak. This isn't 'us vs them'. It is a small matter pertaining to one individual that now needs to be forgotten about.

  69. #229
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    Interesting opinion piece.

    ==


    To expect a human being to get into the head of another to judge intention is both unreasonable and undoable

    Deception is an acknowledged part of sport. Basketball players look left and pass right, footballers feint to catch defenders off guard, tennis players charge as if preparing to play a forehand drive and then tap the ball gently over the net, badminton players leap to smash and finish with a drop shot instead — the list of deceptions that are legal is a long one.

    As is the list of illegal deceptions — using performance-enhancing drugs, diving into the box in search of a penalty in football, playing below par in return for money, and more.

    Three years ago, a new section was added to the Laws of Cricket under ‘Deliberate distraction, deception or obstruction of batsman (Law 41.5).’

    I have watched the run out of Pakistan’s Fakhar Zaman in the recent ODI against South Africa many times, and there is only one conclusion to be drawn. Wicketkeeper Quinton de Kock fooled the player by pointing to the non-striker’s end causing the batsman approaching him to slow down. The throw hit the stumps and Zaman was given out. De Kock’s immediate reaction was a “Hey, I fooled you” smile; the commentators praised his wit and sharpness while his captain Temba Bavuma called it “quite clever”.


    De Kock deliberately misled the batsman and according to Law 41.5.1 it was an unfair dismissal. According to reports, match officials are unlikely to penalise either de Kock or his team.

    Two issues

    There are two issues here. Let’s take the more important first — the question of intent. This is something umpires on the field are expected to take a call on in a split second. Umpires are trained professionals who know and understand the laws of the game. And now with the electronic eye assisting them, get a high percentage of decisions right.

    But to expect a human being to get into the head of another to judge intention is both unreasonable and undoable. We can only judge by actions, my father used to say, only god can judge by intentions. To present umpires with this ethical conundrum — no DRS can read a player’s mind, after all — is unwarranted.

    There is too the question of parity. The penalty for pretending to take a catch or a fake throw is five runs. That’s the same penalty as for ball tampering. So either ball tampering is not such a big deal, or a fake throw is a severe breach of the law.

    If we expand the argument further, cricket is a game of deception in so many ways. Here ‘deception’ is used in the sense that the ‘deceiver’ is providing incomplete or erroneous information to his opponent who has to decide on the basis of such inadequate data. The leg-spinner fools the batsman into misreading his googly, the master of the reverse swing upsets the batsman’s expectations, the batsman who reverse sweeps makes a mockery of the bowler’s field placing.

    The argument that an addition to the law was required because a fake throw or a false dive might fool the batsman into not taking a run doesn’t hold. The onus is on the batsman to keep his eye on the ball or trust that his partner is doing so.

    Wicketkeepers are notorious for getting a runner to relax by using their body language to suggest the opposite of what is actually happening. Mahendra Singh Dhoni sometimes dropped his shoulders and even looked away from the scene of the action to trick a batsman into misjudging a run or relaxing at the wrong end. Fielders fake in jest, wicketkeepers do so too. Kumar Sangakkara and Jonny Bairstow, among others, have done it at international level presumably to hurry the batsman or watch him needlessly dive for the crease.

    One of de Kock’s teammates defended him later saying the wicketkeeper was asking for a fielder to back up at the non-striker’s end. Was he? Who can judge intent?

    Players know how to make things look accidental. Was a shot offered or was that deliberate padding? That’s another question the umpire has to answer on intent.

    And so to the second issue. Yes, as the law stands, de Kock ought to have paid the price. But, not surprisingly, no one wants to make that call.

    Even the Marylebone Cricket Club (MCC), custodian of the Laws would only say:“The Law is clear, with the offence being an attempt to deceive, rather than the batsman actually being deceived. It’s up to the umpires to decide if there was such an attempt. If so, then it’s Not out, 5 Penalty runs + the 2 they ran, and batsmen choose who faces next ball.” This is true of course, but the umpires could do with some guidance.

    At any rate, that section of the law needs to be looked at again.

    https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/col...le34257287.ece


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  70. #230
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    Hmmm...interesting opinion piece posted by MenInG above.
    My 5c's worth
    Zaman's primary goal was to make the opposite end, irrespective of what the fielders, wk, umpire, his batting mate, the seagulls circling the ground, the spider cam, the spectators or in this case the sun relflecting off the empty seats, were doing.
    Did he achieve it? No.
    Was he obstructed ? No
    Was he deceived? a possible yes - lets stick with yes. He himself admitted it was his fault.
    I recall once murali was run out by the NZ keeper when he did not make the ground and ran across to congratulate Sanga(I think) for a century - whose fault it was?
    Other than that my respect for QDK has certainly gone down, he smirked shamelessly at Zaman and the implied meaning was 'ive conned u' which was pathetic....I wish he had called him back.
    As an indian I'd say the same if VK suffered the same fate on the cusp of reaching a double 100.
    Deception - Yes
    Cheating - No
    Peace to all...
    Last edited by CrIc_Mystique; 7th April 2021 at 12:13.

  71. #231
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    QDK did not break the laws when he pointed to the bowlers end, the issue is dead.
    Last edited by MenInG; 7th April 2021 at 12:48.

  72. #232
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    Fake fielding makes the game more interesting. Its stupid to make a law banning it just because the batsmen can't bother keeping an eye on the ball.


    John 3:16

  73. #233
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    Pollock criticises De Kock 'deception' over Zaman run-out

    Former South African captain Shaun Pollock on Wednesday said he believed South African wicketkeeper Quinton de Kock was guilty of deception in the run-out of Pakistan batsman Fakhar Zaman during the second one-international in Johannesburg on Sunday.

    But Pollock said he believed De Kock was not aware of a law which outlaws wilful attempts to "distract, deceive or obstruct" a batsman.

    Speaking in his role as a commentator for SuperSport television in the build-up to the third and final match in Centurion, Pollock said he believed the incident should have been sent to the third umpire for a ruling.

    It happened off the first ball of the final over, which started with Pakistan needing 31 to win. Fakhar hit the ball to long-off and was run-out when he slowed down before completing a second run, with De Kock seemingly indicating that a throw from Aiden Markram should be aimed at the bowler's end.

    Fakhar was out for 193.

    If the umpires had decided that there was deliberate deception, they could have awarded five penalty runs to Pakistan, which would have kept the touring team in with a chance of winning, with Fakhar remaining on strike.

    "When you look at the incident and analyse it, it's the action of putting the hand up, you can see the distraction for the batsman and the fact that he laughed afterwards," said Pollock.

    "I'm not saying that if he did that he knew it was wrong. I don't think a lot of the players know about this rule," said Pollock, who was on the MCC committee which brought in the rule to prevent the practice of fielders pretending they had stopped the ball in order to dissuade batsmen from taking second runs.

    "Looking at it, it didn't feel right and I think it was definitely done on purpose to try and deceive," said Pollock. "If you slow it down, it looks as though he was trying something (but) I don't think he was trying to cheat."

    Former Pakistan batsman Ramiz Raja said he believed it was a borderline case.

    "There was no conclusive evidence that he was involved in serious mischief," he said.

    Raja joked that he believed deception was "part of a wicketkeeper's DNA". He recalled an incident in a one-day international against India in 1986 when Indian wicketkeeper Sadanand Viswanath "tried to make believe he had missed the ball and I was run out".

    Raja said the ultimate responsibility lay with the batsman. "The onus was on Fakhar to make his ground," he said.

    "You feel like a fool," he said of the Pune incident.

    "Not only the Indian fielders were laughing at me, so was Javed Miandad at the non-striker's end."

    https://cricketpakistan.com.pk/en/ne...-zaman-run-out

  74. #234
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    Technical deceiving is part of the game, and that makes the sport interesting. It's already a batsman game,so at least give the fielding side some favors.

    Are we going to ban false shots? switch hits? or deceiving of batsman by changing bowling speed?

  75. #235
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    Arsenal all the way!! (and Pakistan, of course!)

  76. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by someone21 View Post
    Technical deceiving is part of the game, and that makes the sport interesting. It's already a batsman game,so at least give the fielding side some favors.

    Are we going to ban false shots? switch hits? or deceiving of batsman by changing bowling speed?
    If the law wasnt thier then its fine but due to the law being thier then its not allowed and should be penalised

  77. #237
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    Match referee Andy Pycroft & dodgy tosses


  78. #238
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    Done it again today claimed SA won toss only for Baba to rectify & tell him pak had won toss..


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