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  1. #81
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    Right now, the only thing preventing us from posting 330+ is the middle order.

    Fix the middle order, then address the openers.

    If our middle order is fixed and we're still posting in the 280+ range, then look to improve the opening partnership.

    Fix the middle order first, that's more important.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    Right now, the only thing preventing us from posting 330+ is the middle order.

    Fix the middle order, then address the openers.

    If our middle order is fixed and we're still posting in the 280+ range, then look to improve the opening partnership.

    Fix the middle order first, that's more important.
    Couldn't agree more. There'll always be debate about every part of the team, but in reality the top 3 is the last thing to worry about in this side. We reached 300+ scores because of them, not in spite of them. Can't say the same for the middle order.


    Arsenal all the way!! (and Pakistan, of course!)

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebat View Post
    Couldn't agree more. There'll always be debate about every part of the team, but in reality the top 3 is the last thing to worry about in this side. We reached 300+ scores because of them, not in spite of them. Can't say the same for the middle order.
    Once the middle order is fixed, we will see a more dependable batting unit. Once you have good, reliable batting, it allows you to play better bowling options, and more bowling options sometimes.

    Think about it, if Pakistan strikes gold and gets two good batsmen (around 40 average with a SR near 100) in our middle order, we'd realistically only need one all-rounder, maybe even no all-rounder at all.

    If our top 6 is reliable in ODI cricket, we can have the luxury of playing 5 frontline bowlers to make us a much better team.

    If not 5 frontline bowlers, we wouldn't need any batting all-rounder whatsoever, and would just need someone at 7 who can bowl 10 overs, and can bat to a good enough extent, probably Usman Qadir.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    Once the middle order is fixed, we will see a more dependable batting unit. Once you have good, reliable batting, it allows you to play better bowling options, and more bowling options sometimes.

    Think about it, if Pakistan strikes gold and gets two good batsmen (around 40 average with a SR near 100) in our middle order, we'd realistically only need one all-rounder, maybe even no all-rounder at all.

    If our top 6 is reliable in ODI cricket, we can have the luxury of playing 5 frontline bowlers to make us a much better team.

    If not 5 frontline bowlers, we wouldn't need any batting all-rounder whatsoever, and would just need someone at 7 who can bowl 10 overs, and can bat to a good enough extent, probably Usman Qadir.
    Here is an opposing argument.

    It is evident that we don't have a reliable middle/lower order batsman who can score at decent rate (40/100 stats as you say). We know this since we have tried Talat, Asif, Iftikhar, Danish, Sarfaraz, Malik, Shadab, Faheem, Nawaz to no avail. Only Haider and possibly Maqsood are yet to be tried at middle/lower order.

    But when it comes to opening, we haven't tried anyone in place of Imam. Who knows, maybe Haider,/Sharjeel/Farhan can maintain 40/100 stats as openers. We won't know until we try them out and this is the perfect time for experiments as 2023 is still a few years away. As I have posted before, we can always turn to Imam if things don't work out.

    This series has established that we are 5th best side in ODIs (finished at 5 in WC as well). We cannot topple the big 3 (and Newzealand) with likes of Imam (80 sr) opening the innings.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenstorm View Post
    Here is an opposing argument.

    It is evident that we don't have a reliable middle/lower order batsman who can score at decent rate (40/100 stats as you say). We know this since we have tried Talat, Asif, Iftikhar, Danish, Sarfaraz, Malik, Shadab, Faheem, Nawaz to no avail. Only Haider and possibly Maqsood are yet to be tried at middle/lower order.

    But when it comes to opening, we haven't tried anyone in place of Imam. Who knows, maybe Haider,/Sharjeel/Farhan can maintain 40/100 stats as openers. We won't know until we try them out and this is the perfect time for experiments as 2023 is still a few years away. As I have posted before, we can always turn to Imam if things don't work out.

    This series has established that we are 5th best side in ODIs (finished at 5 in WC as well). We cannot topple the big 3 (and Newzealand) with likes of Imam (80 sr) opening the innings.
    It's a bit confusing because you make several good points. I'd be open to allowing Rizwan to open the innings to accommodate two aggressive batsman in the middle order, Haider and Sohaib.

    I can think of a few options which can occupy positions 5 and 6:
    1. Sohaib Maqsood - aggressive, good strike rate, good player of spin and can finish it off as well

    2. Haider Ali - not a middle order batsman but he brings genuine aggression to the table and plays with an attacking mindset.

    3. Sarfaraz Ahmed - has been tried in the past and didn't succeed, an option nevertheless.

    4. Imad Wasim - boost Imad up the order and play him as a batting all-rounder similar to Stokes for England and see what he can do.

    5. Rohail Nazir - young and keeps things simple, but match experience is a question.

    6. Saud Shakeel - doesn't bat at a high strike rate but will bring runs consistently.

    My personal decision would be to have Maqsood and Haider at 5 and 6 respectively.

    If our batting does well up till the 40th over (around 250-ish at 40 overs), send out Haider and Sohaib and allow them to bat freely and aggressively.

    Sohaib and Haider are necessary in my mind.

    I think the combination we should look towards is:

    Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
    Fakhar Zaman
    Babar Azam (c)
    Sohaib Maqsood
    Haider Ali
    Imad Wasim
    Faheem Ashraf
    Mohammad Nawaz/Usman Qadir
    Haris Rauf
    Shaheen Shah Afridi
    Hasan Ali/Hasnain

    6 bowling options, each capable of giving you 10 overs.

    Depth in batting, and a middle-order capable of finishing.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barragan View Post
    He can average 45+ at 90+ sr, which is better than 50 average and a sr of 80.

    A loss of 5 runs for a better sr is definitely worth it, especially in this age of flat wickets and high scores.
    When was the last time a team lost by 5 runs and am sure theirs other factors not just imaams below strike rate.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    It's a bit confusing because you make several good points. I'd be open to allowing Rizwan to open the innings to accommodate two aggressive batsman in the middle order, Haider and Sohaib.

    I can think of a few options which can occupy positions 5 and 6:
    1. Sohaib Maqsood - aggressive, good strike rate, good player of spin and can finish it off as well

    2. Haider Ali - not a middle order batsman but he brings genuine aggression to the table and plays with an attacking mindset.

    3. Sarfaraz Ahmed - has been tried in the past and didn't succeed, an option nevertheless.

    4. Imad Wasim - boost Imad up the order and play him as a batting all-rounder similar to Stokes for England and see what he can do.

    5. Rohail Nazir - young and keeps things simple, but match experience is a question.

    6. Saud Shakeel - doesn't bat at a high strike rate but will bring runs consistently.

    My personal decision would be to have Maqsood and Haider at 5 and 6 respectively.

    If our batting does well up till the 40th over (around 250-ish at 40 overs), send out Haider and Sohaib and allow them to bat freely and aggressively.

    Sohaib and Haider are necessary in my mind.

    I think the combination we should look towards is:

    Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
    Fakhar Zaman
    Babar Azam (c)
    Sohaib Maqsood
    Haider Ali
    Imad Wasim
    Faheem Ashraf
    Mohammad Nawaz/Usman Qadir
    Haris Rauf
    Shaheen Shah Afridi
    Hasan Ali/Hasnain

    6 bowling options, each capable of giving you 10 overs.

    Depth in batting, and a middle-order capable of finishing.

    Now that you are convinced that we should move on from Imam, lets look at the options.

    1. Replace Imam with an aggressive (35-40/100 sr) opener. Sharjeel/Maqsood/Haider can be tried.

    Sharjeel
    Fakhar
    Babar
    Rizwan
    Haider
    Maqsood
    Imad/Nawaz
    Hassan
    Qadir

    2. Replace Imam with almost as consistent but quicker (40-45/90) opener. Saud/Rizwan/Farhan/Zeeshan can be tried .

    Rizwan
    Fakhar
    Babar
    Harris/Saud
    Haider
    Maqsood
    Imad/Nawaz
    Hassan
    Qadir

    I will choose the second lineup considering the WC is in India. Harris or Saud can be the 6th bowling option.

    That being said, there is no hope as long as Misbah loser is at the helm. Imam is going nowhere and for all we know, Misbah will be arm twisting CS into bringing back Iftikhar !
    So this is a futile excercise.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenstorm View Post
    Now that you are convinced that we should move on from Imam, lets look at the options.

    1. Replace Imam with an aggressive (35-40/100 sr) opener. Sharjeel/Maqsood/Haider can be tried.

    Sharjeel
    Fakhar
    Babar
    Rizwan
    Haider
    Maqsood
    Imad/Nawaz
    Hassan
    Qadir

    2. Replace Imam with almost as consistent but quicker (40-45/90) opener. Saud/Rizwan/Farhan/Zeeshan can be tried .

    Rizwan
    Fakhar
    Babar
    Harris/Saud
    Haider
    Maqsood
    Imad/Nawaz
    Hassan
    Qadir

    I will choose the second lineup considering the WC is in India. Harris or Saud can be the 6th bowling option.

    That being said, there is no hope as long as Misbah loser is at the helm. Imam is going nowhere and for all we know, Misbah will be arm twisting CS into bringing back Iftikhar !
    So this is a futile excercise.
    I think Maqsood needs to be tried in the middle order along with Haider. We have no other options right now, so these two need to get a good shot.

    If Azam Khan can lose more weight and has a good PSL, I'd be willing to take him into the T20 team which would allow us to accomodate both Fakhar + Sharjeel at the top if need be.

  9. #89
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    Surely peoples not happy with openers in t20s.

    Ahmad has to come back. No question

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmad-GERMANFC View Post
    Surely peoples not happy with openers in t20s.

    Ahmad has to come back. No question
    I hope this is a sarcastic comment.


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