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  1. #1
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    This Pakistan team has done something the one under Mickey could not do

    Mickey's Pakistan only won series vs WI, SL and ZIM in ODIs.

    This team has beaten SA 2-1 in SA and it's our first ODI series win vs a top 5 team since 2013.

  2. #2
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    Credit to our coach Misbah ul haq


    "Life is Pain"
    ~House~

  3. #3
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    This SA, especially the team they fielded in the last game, is worse than “those” WI or SL. You would expect same (or even better) results against them under Mickey or any other coach.
    Last edited by BreadPakoda; 7th April 2021 at 21:55.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    This SA, especially the team they fielded in the last game, is worse than “those” WI or SL. You would expect same (or even better) results against them under Mickey or any other coach.
    Did we watch the same game?

    Hasan Ali's onslaught aside, did you see the way SA bowled in last 15 overs?

    They were 'worse' on paper but they brought their A game!

  5. #5
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    Credit to the team. And the team management aswell. An achievement worth being proud of. And alot of positives to take away from the series:

    The emergence of Haris Rauf as a potential match-winner, Fakhar reaching the next level, the reliability of Pakistan's Top 3, Usman and Nawaz impressing with the ball.

    But I do hope we don't delude ourselves into thinking this is a great team. Players like Asif Ali, Sarfraz have no business playing international cricket. Without Haris Sohail that middle-order is very weak. And we need Imad at 6 or 7 because he's the closest thing we have to a finisher. Also, Shadab desperately needs to be dropped

  6. #6
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    Yeah, against a terrible SA team with the top-order in the best form of their career. Misbah was very lucky that despite playing the worst lower-middle order in the world, we were able to win two matches.

    Mickey worked hard on this team and made it a watchable team after a long time. Apart from a shocker vs West Indies, we were brilliant in the world cup.

    Then the management changed and everything went downhill. This team still hasn't come back up to where it was when Mickey left. There have been some shocking tactical and team-selection decisions. If we're winning, it's despite Misbah & Waqar and not because of them.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhenSultansBowled View Post
    Did we watch the same game?

    Hasan Ali's onslaught aside, did you see the way SA bowled in last 15 overs?

    They were 'worse' on paper but they brought their A game!
    Mickey won you a CT where every time brought their A game. Beating “this” SA that punched above their weight is not even close.

  8. #8
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    We did play pretty well and could have won the series 3-0. What prevented us from winning 3-0 was the selection of useless cricketers who offered nothing and could be described as liabilities. Asif Ali and Shahdab Khan are the two main suspects and both those players are backed heavily by Misbah

    Also in today’s game our lack of ability to dominate spin should be an issue that’s non existent considering our coach and batting coach were both phenomenal hitters of spin.

    This just shows that Misbah is doing nothing to help improve our players and really our win stems from some very good performances from Babar and Fakhar, two players who were well established before Misbah.

    Besides those two, most of our batting failed and our bowling was also very poor with rauf being the exception

    Also in the final game, the two guys who Misbah failed to select previously - Hassan and Nawaz proved to be the difference between the 2 sides

  9. #9
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    So now Misbah has won a series in South Africa as both captain and coach.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

  10. #10
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    Lol. That was 5 match series with SA playing their actual team . This was 3 match with a SA B team in final game

  11. #11
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    Respect. It’s not easy to b at a good side like this away from home

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    Quote Originally Posted by Third Man View Post
    Yeah, against a terrible SA team with the top-order in the best form of their career. Misbah was very lucky that despite playing the worst lower-middle order in the world, we were able to win two matches.

    Mickey worked hard on this team and made it a watchable team after a long time. Apart from a shocker vs West Indies, we were brilliant in the world cup.

    Then the management changed and everything went downhill. This team still hasn't come back up to where it was when Mickey left. There have been some shocking tactical and team-selection decisions. If we're winning, it's despite Misbah & Waqar and not because of them.
    misbah has pulled it off as a captain aswel,

    so dont know what luck you are talking about


    "Life is Pain"
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  13. #13
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    South Africa are not that fearsome side that they once were, but this is still a very good achievement. Pakistan have joined Australia as being the only teams to win two bilateral ODI series in SA.

  14. #14
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    It's a great series win but there were still some glaring mistakes made. Misbah's obsession with Asif Ali, debuting Danish in such difficult conditions and then dropping him when they were playing their B side, not playing Haider at all, the pathetic response to the middle order woes in the last game.

    It was not a complete win by any means and there is still a lot of work to be done. But there still have been a lot of positives and certain players are developing nicely. I think it's a step in the right direction, but we're still a long long way off from being where we need to be.

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    I am no Misbah fan as a coach, but if we lost the series everyone would be blaming him. Apart from @Major I am almost certain a majority all posters will give credit to anyone that is not named Misbah.

  16. #16
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    I am a Misbah hater but you got to give to him this time. If he had lost everyone would have blamed him. Now he should be given his due credit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smudger View Post
    I am a Misbah hater but you got to give to him this time. If he had lost everyone would have blamed him. Now he should be given his due credit
    No one will give him credit barring Major. Misbah has done some good things for Pakistan cricket but our fans really don’t care. They think he is holding the whole of Pakistan cricket back which is not fair.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyWarsFan View Post
    Mickey's Pakistan only won series vs WI, SL and ZIM in ODIs.

    This team has beaten SA 2-1 in SA and it's our first ODI series win vs a top 5 team since 2013.
    Not to be a negative Nancy but this last game was for us to take seeing as South Africa had no back up left, i mean what are you gonna expect from a team that has Jon Jon Smuts and Markram in the death overs.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    misbah has pulled it off as a captain aswel,

    so dont know what luck you are talking about
    I'll give him credit for that series win. He can't get any credit for this one. This is the weakest SA team in history and still, we had to rely on individual brilliance to eke out a win. The team he played today would be crushed by a better team.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoaibbtt View Post
    Not to be a negative Nancy but this last game was for us to take seeing as South Africa had no back up left, i mean what are you gonna expect from a team that has Jon Jon Smuts and Markram in the death overs.
    You know that the likes of Smuts, Sipamla, Junior Dala, etc. Played against Aus and England last year too? Aus lost 3-0.


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Line and Length View Post
    It's a great series win but there were still some glaring mistakes made. Misbah's obsession with Asif Ali, debuting Danish in such difficult conditions and then dropping him when they were playing their B side, not playing Haider at all, the pathetic response to the middle order woes in the last game.

    It was not a complete win by any means and there is still a lot of work to be done. But there still have been a lot of positives and certain players are developing nicely. I think it's a step in the right direction, but we're still a long long way off from being where we need to be.
    I would've wanted the likes of Abdullah Shafique and Danish playing this game, dropping Danish when the B side was introduced was silly, might have just given him the 3 games. We could've played Asif Ali today and still won (not that i wanted Asif Ali).

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyWarsFan View Post
    You know that the likes of Smuts, Sipamla, Junior Dala, etc. Played against Aus and England last year too? Aus lost 3-0.
    It's good bhai but we were expected to take this by the horns and absolutely thrash them. The opening partnership was slow, especially Imam playing too many dots and it was this argument again that he plays too many dots in the powerplay. However, don't mind bro. Pakistan Zindabaad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  23. #23
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    This 2-1 series over a poor SA team has just papered over numerous cracks and poor team selections that pakistan has undertaken in this series.

    There seems to be no thought put into team combinations, no thought into building a strong middle order to compliment the top 4. Add to that the bowling as a unit doesnt look great.

  24. #24
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    Mickey’s Pakistan was very efficient at beating depleted sides. It would have beaten this South Africa side.

    I don’t view this series as progression - India, England, Australia and New Zealand would still beat Pakistan 5-0 or 4-1 in a series.

    We are a very average team that is clearly short on talent and skill.

    Beating South Africa, especially a depleted South Africa, can no longer be viewed as an achievement.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Mickey’s Pakistan was very efficient at beating depleted sides. It would have beaten this South Africa side.

    I don’t view this series as progression - India, England, Australia and New Zealand would still beat Pakistan 5-0 or 4-1 in a series.

    We are a very average team that is clearly short on talent and skill.

    Beating South Africa, especially a depleted South Africa, can no longer be viewed as an achievement.
    Almost some common sense comments from you for once.

  26. #26
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    Congrats to Pakistan! Yes SA was depleted but look at our batting middle order lol..

    Onto t20 preparation

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    Quote Originally Posted by Third Man View Post
    I'll give him credit for that series win. He can't get any credit for this one. This is the weakest SA team in history and still, we had to rely on individual brilliance to eke out a win. The team he played today would be crushed by a better team.
    There was no individual brilliance in one first match and third match.


    "Life is Pain"
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  28. #28
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    Always great to see Pakistan win.
    However, cannot help but feel but with a lame duck HC and bowling coach, we will never progress.

    The phrase of winning inspite of comes to mind.

    Misbah needs to go. Win or no win.

    Whilst India progress, we will stagnate with occasional bits or brilliance like this.

    Pains me to say it but Misbah must go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    There was no individual brilliance in one first match and third match.
    Ok. I'll make it "top-three brilliance".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waqar's inswinging yorker View Post
    Always great to see Pakistan win.
    However, cannot help but feel but with a lame duck HC and bowling coach, we will never progress.

    The phrase of winning inspite of comes to mind.

    Misbah needs to go. Win or no win.

    Whilst India progress, we will stagnate with occasional bits or brilliance like this.

    Pains me to say it but Misbah must go.
    Unfortunately, the person who's inspired your username must go as well. It's his millionth stint with Pakistan and it's clear by now that he has no idea what he's doing either.

  31. #31
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    I know this thread is about the victory but seeing as how only top three batsmen scored as much as they did with our other batsmen getting bowled quickly with the highest score being 13. Shows how desperately we played this game. That too against a South African B team. This team does not exactly give me confidence that it will do well in major ICC tournaments.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Third Man View Post
    Unfortunately, the person who's inspired your username must go as well. It's his millionth stint with Pakistan and it's clear by now that he has no idea what he's doing either.
    Completely agree. Terrible as a coach.

    What could have been with Mickey Arthur in Limited overs.

    Misbah, solid test coach at home but he has no idea.

    I wish we would adopt some modernisation.

  33. #33
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    This was only the second time Pakistan has won a ODI series in South Africa. The only other time was in 2013



  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    This was only the second time Pakistan has won a ODI series in South Africa. The only other time was in 2013
    Back in 2013 SA were a decent ODI team. Now they arent, very average like pakistan.

    2013 was a great acheivement i think.

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    The only purpose of this thread is for us to witness another Misbah cheerleading exercise.

    In the 20+ years I've watched South African cricket, this is by far the weakest team I have seen them produce.

    As for "This Pakistan team has done something the one Mickey could not do", I hope the OP can comprehend how absurd this sounds. Our star players in the series were Babar and Fakhar. Both of them were successful products of the Mickey Arthur era.

    But no, Misbah is our hero and we must bash Mickey at every opportunity until we can convert everyone on PP to a Misbah cheerleader.
    Last edited by topspin; 8th April 2021 at 03:46.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Mickey’s Pakistan was very efficient at beating depleted sides. It would have beaten this South Africa side.

    I don’t view this series as progression - India, England, Australia and New Zealand would still beat Pakistan 5-0 or 4-1 in a series.

    We are a very average team that is clearly short on talent and skill.

    Beating South Africa, especially a depleted South Africa, can no longer be viewed as an achievement.
    Without a doubt.

    Anyone who thinks otherwise is either unknowledgeable or blatantly biased.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    The only purpose of this thread is for us to witness another Misbah cheerleading exercise.

    In the 20+ years I've watched South African cricket, this is by far the weakest team I have seen them produce.

    As for "This Pakistan team has done something the one Mickey could not do", I hope the OP can comprehend how absurd this sounds. Our star players in the series were Babar and Fakhar. Both of them were successful products of the Mickey Arthur era.

    But no, Misbah is our hero and we must bash Mickey at every opportunity until we can convert everyone on PP to a Misbah cheerleader.
    No, Misbah is a poor coach. But mickey is the worst coach in the world. I think this success is due.to the players. Squad selection was.nkt right though and that's fault of Misbah and M Wasim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smudger View Post
    I am a Misbah hater but you got to give to him this time. If he had lost everyone would have blamed him. Now he should be given his due credit
    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    No one will give him credit barring Major. Misbah has done some good things for Pakistan cricket but our fans really don’t care. They think he is holding the whole of Pakistan cricket back which is not fair.
    A 2-1 Pakistan win is the least that you can be accepted given how poor this SA team really is. That is not progress and you can't give credit to someone who isn't delivering that.

    Other than Babar and Fakhar, the rest of the team were mostly disappointing to say the least. One of the reasons for that is because Misbah doesn't have a clue what his best team combination is. How on earth are the likes of Asif Ali and Danish Aziz being included in this team? and why was Hasan Ali excluded (until the last ODI)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyWarsFan View Post
    No, Misbah is a poor coach. But mickey is the worst coach in the world. I think this success is due.to the players. Squad selection was.nkt right though and that's fault of Misbah and M Wasim.
    I appreciate your honest assessment of Misbah. But do you honestly think under Mickey we would have lost this series?

    Mickey had his faults and was in my eyes an average coach but for Pakistan cricket there was progress with our white ball cricket. He had an eye for batting talent and getting the best of them, also ensuring they didn't bat out of position - something we saw a lot of during Misbah's time as captain.

    Pakistan went from a 230-250 team during the Misbah/Waqar era in the early to mid 2010s to scoring 300+ far more regularly during Mickey's time. So it would be incredibly harsh to maintain that he is "the worst coach in the world".

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    It speaks volumes of how bad we were under Mickey Arthur. I don't think some realise this. We shouldn't be upset that he had gone. And the players at his disposal (as Misbah currently has) is far more than 2008-2015 or so I don't think people remember just how bad the quality of players with our batsmen struggling to average over 30, no good bowlers etc. Since CT 2017 the standard of players at our disposal coming into the team is far higher. And it's not down to Mickey they did well, they did well upon entry to cricket which shows they have talent. The vast majority declined during Mickey's tenure.

    This win actually says very little about Misbah's ability, it's a weakened team I expect him to beat. And I don't really see much to praise Misbah about. But Mickey needed to go, we needed a change (not necessarily Misbah though, could have been someone more experienced/qualified). It has just been downhill since CT 2017 right at the start of Mickey's career which was a fantastic achievement, but that was years ago can't live on on past glories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdurmirr View Post
    We did play pretty well and could have won the series 3-0. What prevented us from winning 3-0 was the selection of useless cricketers who offered nothing and could be described as liabilities. Asif Ali and Shahdab Khan are the two main suspects and both those players are backed heavily by Misbah

    Also in today’s game our lack of ability to dominate spin should be an issue that’s non existent considering our coach and batting coach were both phenomenal hitters of spin.

    This just shows that Misbah is doing nothing to help improve our players and really our win stems from some very good performances from Babar and Fakhar, two players who were well established before Misbah.

    Besides those two, most of our batting failed and our bowling was also very poor with rauf being the exception

    Also in the final game, the two guys who Misbah failed to select previously - Hassan and Nawaz proved to be the difference between the 2 sides
    Winning despite atrocious selections-v lucky indeed. Let's not hide Misbah's ineptness. However credit should be given to Wasim as chief selector for bringing in Nawaz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    A 2-1 Pakistan win is the least that you can be accepted given how poor this SA team really is. That is not progress and you can't give credit to someone who isn't delivering that.

    Other than Babar and Fakhar, the rest of the team were mostly disappointing to say the least. One of the reasons for that is because Misbah doesn't have a clue what his best team combination is. How on earth are the likes of Asif Ali and Danish Aziz being included in this team? and why was Hasan Ali excluded (until the last ODI)?
    Imagine if Nawaz and Usman Qadir had played all 3 onedays, the result could have been easily 3 nil.

  43. #43
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    Very poor selections and think tank.

    Credit for the win goes to FZ and Babar. Bowlers and middle-order were horrendous.

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    Misbah is doing is best to make the team lose. Its others that are making the team win especially from the Micky/Inzi era. Misbah needs sacked before he undoes all the good work.

  45. #45
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    South Africa tbh were not that strong in either 2018-19 either and we still lost to them. The Sri Lankans recorded a historic test series win immediately after that in SA

  46. #46
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    History in the making!! Congratulations! One of your best victories overseas!!!

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    Mtlb khuch b, if anything we underperformed due to non existing middle order, it's not even about the fact that they failed its about the thinking behind selecting this merit less middle order and the one with zero vision, even a casual Pak team fan can be select better, rest of the team picked itself. It's some achievement really that we win despite this clueless management, i can give you that. Any half decent team would have thrashed this non existent middle order team.

  48. #48
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    Pakistan haven't done anything, South Africa did it to themselves.

    We are only congratulating ourselves because we have nothing else to celebrate.

    A 2-1 win against this lot would barely even register as a success for the top 4 teams in the world right now. It's clear we're miles away from that and SA are more our level.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitthestump View Post
    Pakistan haven't done anything, South Africa did it to themselves.

    We are only congratulating ourselves because we have nothing else to celebrate.

    A 2-1 win against this lot would barely even register as a success for the top 4 teams in the world right now. It's clear we're miles away from that and SA are more our level.
    Look at the SA team that beat Aus 3-0 last year and drew 1-1 with England a hear ago.

  50. #50
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    The inform fakhar and Babar would have been just as effective against any good team as they were against South Africa. They were the reason we won the series. Bowling was decent and it would have been against good teams. We need to work on our middle order and probably consider Hafeez till the next ODI world Cup. I believe we have a great team here that is very capable of beating good teams.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    I appreciate your honest assessment of Misbah. But do you honestly think under Mickey we would have lost this series?

    Mickey had his faults and was in my eyes an average coach but for Pakistan cricket there was progress with our white ball cricket. He had an eye for batting talent and getting the best of them, also ensuring they didn't bat out of position - something we saw a lot of during Misbah's time as captain.

    Pakistan went from a 230-250 team during the Misbah/Waqar era in the early to mid 2010s to scoring 300+ far more regularly during Mickey's time. So it would be incredibly harsh to maintain that he is "the worst coach in the world".
    I think it is not because of Mickey, but rather due to the newer players coming in who are more capable of posting such scores, and along with easier, flatter pitches and easier ODI rules, that caused the improvement in scoring rate for us.

    Look at Mickey with SL. Before him they were winning here and there, but he has messed with their batting order especially, and stuffed it with bits and pieces. As a result they are on a horror run.

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    Guys, take this win with a pinch of salt. We have short comings in bowling and middle order. Also don't forget, SA fielded their C team here. Win is a win, but there is lots to improve.

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    This is actually Mickey's side. He developed a solid top 3 in Fakhar, Imam and Babar. Shaheen, Faheem, Hasnain, Shadab, Nawaz were his guys as well.

    Only Rauf and Qadir are new inclusions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    A 2-1 Pakistan win is the least that you can be accepted given how poor this SA team really is. That is not progress and you can't give credit to someone who isn't delivering that.

    Other than Babar and Fakhar, the rest of the team were mostly disappointing to say the least. One of the reasons for that is because Misbah doesn't have a clue what his best team combination is. How on earth are the likes of Asif Ali and Danish Aziz being included in this team? and why was Hasan Ali excluded (until the last ODI)?

    Well if we don't win this series, you will ask for Misbah's head. So he can't win in this situation.

    Remember Misbah is not a selector. Asif Ali and Aziz should have not even been in the squad. Haider Ali should have played but the other option of Shafique who doesn't have much experience. And Sarfraz who is past his best. The selection of middle order players was not great .

    I thought Hasan Ali has covid that's why he didn't play the first 2 games.

  55. #55
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    This victory has covered serious flaws in the team, with the main one being there is no middle order batsmen.

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    There is a reason that hardly anyone rates Misbah. No one woke up one day and decided suddenly that Misbah is no good.

    Its no surprise that 2 out of our 3 match winners in Hasan and Fakhar are from the MA era. Even Babar got blocked out for too long by Misbah before establishing himself under MA.

    Misbah just wastes time and series after series by stuffing his failed experiments into the side then having to rectify his blunders by the time of the next series or tour.

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    This is still Mickey's team. I think OP is forgetting that Arthur had great knack of developing players. Look at SA too under his tenure. I don't see any player having a fixed role under Misbah apart from what Mickey gave them. Anyways credit for the win goes to Bobby and Misbah and management but indirectly it's also an ode to Arthur and Inzi who built the core of this team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozeirk View Post
    The inform fakhar and Babar would have been just as effective against any good team as they were against South Africa. They were the reason we won the series. Bowling was decent and it would have been against good teams. We need to work on our middle order and probably consider Hafeez till the next ODI world Cup. I believe we have a great team here that is very capable of beating good teams.
    we have two years to develop some middle order batters, we just need one for goodness sake and im sure we'll find one. if you look at other teams espeically India they tend to rely very heavily on Kohli and the openers who are one two and three and then the later order. We can afford to tinker and find somebody as we now have a very good top and lower order. (when faheem and shadab fire that is lol). We just need someone to aid Rizwan in the middle and we are good.

  59. #59
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    Well the top 3 scored the majority of the runs to win this series. This top 3 was set to roll by MA.

    Misbah and Waqar were in various capacity for the last decade or so. Tell me one player who plays till now or has a role to play or a batting number that is fixed. Even their long time backed shafiq and Azhar ali are shady who can be discarded for good any day from the tests.

    Massive difference in comparison of players developed by MA vs Misbah and Waqar

    Similarly MA developed a quite a few when he was the coach for SA and they went to beat Aus in Aus and was on a roll, one of the formidable teams back then.

    If Hafeez and Malik was dropped to give way for youngsters during MA tenure , he would have set the middle order too. With the injury prone Haris he was half set actually , in the CWC he was the no.5 after Hafeez .. Malik was discarded back then.

    Big mistake in this lineup is Rizwan is played as a middle order batsman and tail starts from no.4

    Rizwan or Sarfraz should be batting at 6 only. Pakistan need to play five proper batsman , otherwise this team will get hammered elsewhere. Lucky that the top 3 scored 200 runs in the 1st and 3rd ODi. 2nd game was an eye opener. Even yesterday if Babar did got out after making 30 or 40 runs , this would have bundled for 260 or 270 and then the usual Misbah talk we are 30-40 runs short.
    Last edited by ask_analyse_act; 8th April 2021 at 18:06.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyWarsFan View Post
    I think it is not because of Mickey, but rather due to the newer players coming in who are more capable of posting such scores, and along with easier, flatter pitches and easier ODI rules, that caused the improvement in scoring rate for us.

    Look at Mickey with SL. Before him they were winning here and there, but he has messed with their batting order especially, and stuffed it with bits and pieces. As a result they are on a horror run.
    Misbah actually had the "easier ODI rules". I don't know if you remember but between the 2011 WC and 2015 WC, ICC had imposed a limit of 4 fielders outside the circle after the first batting powerplay. The batting side also had the choice to take a 5 over powerplay where the fielding side was restricted to 2 fielders outside the circle during this period of the innings.

    These were the most favourable batting conditions in the history of white ball ODI cricket, yet Misbah's Pakistan were only able to manage score 240-260 from their 50 overs all because of his outdated approach to white ball cricket.

    Mickey deserves credit for backing Fakhar. The guy looked like a tail ender when he debuted against WI but still opted for him in the 2017 CT. Inzy wanted Ahmed Shehzad to open the batting but Mickey made the right call for Fakhar to replace him after the first game.

    He also deserves credit for Babar's ascendency as a batsman. Misbah doesn't deserve any credit for Babar's success, if anything he was a barrier to it. This was evident during their time at ISLU when he ditched Babar from the starting XI.

    To claim Mickey is the worst coach in the world is so rich and ironic coming from a Misbah fan.

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    Before Mickey came, Pakistan was struggling in chasing targets or even setting targets... Pakistan wasn't able to set 300... 220 was the highest that team could set and top order was a flop...

    -Mickey did manage to fix the team by bringing in players like Babar Azam and get rid of inconsistent players like Ahmad Shehzad, Umar Akmal etc and Pakistn were able to set 300-350 targets against top teams.

    -Mickey also fixed the fielding problems as well like dropped easy catches by bringing in Steve Rixon but ever since he went away, Pakistan's fielding became inconsistent but slowly improving.

    But however, Pakistan's performance were becoming mediocre under him and we also given a perfect odi/t20 win against south africa in 2018 and we were not even able to defend our 340-350 target against England.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by akbarm96 View Post
    Before Mickey came, Pakistan was struggling in chasing targets or even setting targets... Pakistan wasn't able to set 300... 220 was the highest that team could set and top order was a flop...

    -Mickey did manage to fix the team by bringing in players like Babar Azam and get rid of inconsistent players like Ahmad Shehzad, Umar Akmal etc and Pakistn were able to set 300-350 targets against top teams.

    -Mickey also fixed the fielding problems as well like dropped easy catches by bringing in Steve Rixon but ever since he went away, Pakistan's fielding became inconsistent but slowly improving.

    But however, Pakistan's performance were becoming mediocre under him and we also given a perfect odi/t20 win against south africa in 2018 and we were not even able to defend our 340-350 target against England.
    Mickey had nothing to do with Babar’s rise or success. He simply found himself in the right place at the right time.

    Babar was tipped for success since he was 13. He was a prodigy. In fact, Pakistan knew about Babar before they knew about Umar Akmal. Babar would have been successful regardless of who was the coach.

    He was scoring FC hundreds against full-strength Australian attack back in 2014.

    Mickey Arthur is a poor coach who failed with Australia, Pakistan and now Sri Lanka. His success with South Africa in the 2000s was down to the great talent that they had at the time.

    No top team will hire him again. He is the new Dav Whatmore and will keep earning his bread in Asia by moving around Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Nepal etc.

    His contract was up after the 2019 World Cup and not a single big team approached him. He doesn’t even get offers from IPL, not even before he coached Pakistan so his association with Pakistan cannot be used as an excuse.

  63. #63
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    Even though i hate misbah but still think he isnt worse than mickey.Pak fans keep on saying that they want to see mockey return but Pak under mickey were a terrible team.We hardly could win against any of the big 4.Glad that he leaved

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    We almost lost the last ODI and had SA been at full strength in quite certain we would have lost the series

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amjid Javed View Post
    Back in 2013 SA were a decent ODI team. Now they arent, very average like pakistan.

    2013 was a great acheivement i think.
    Pakistan cashed in well on the 3 match series back then. If Pakistan had played them in 5 ODIs I don’t think they would have won that series

    However Pakistan would have won this series recently 3-2 or 4-1 come to think of it.


    "The Indian bowling attack is as devastating as the Teletubbies"- Sir Ian Botham

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by adzzy786 View Post
    We almost lost the last ODI and had SA been at full strength in quite certain we would have lost the series
    Well the first ODI was pretty much one sided in Pakistan’s favour, Pak just kept letting them back in with foolish mistakes.

    The second ODI was a tough one for Pakistan considering they are a team that will not chase anything over 330, 99 out of a hundred times.

    The third one was interesting but the top 3 batsmen had contributed well enough regardless of the hiccups in the middle and lower order. Plus Bavuma overdid it with JJ Smuts which proved fatal. I’m not sure but I think Hendricks had some overs left, bowling Smuts wasn’t a smart move or it didn’t turn out to be a smart move in the 49th over.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyWarsFan View Post
    Mickey's Pakistan only won series vs WI, SL and ZIM in ODIs.

    This team has beaten SA 2-1 in SA and it's our first ODI series win vs a top 5 team since 2013.
    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    Credit to our coach Misbah ul haq
    Very true.

    1. Losing a Test series in England, where Mickey drew two.

    2. Losing consecutive Tests in Australia by an innings, and only taking 3 wickets in one of those.

  68. #68
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    Two things:

    1) People forget that the same SA side they call as B side beat Australia and drew England

    2) The core of this team is what Mickey and Inzi made. They changed the whole culture of the team. A team who couldnt manage any score above 220 in the previous Misbah/Waqar era started scoring 300+ scores on a regular. The players who won Pakistan this series are also Mickey/Inzi’s developed players - Fakhar, Hassan and Babar. Name a single player that Misbah has developed?

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    It is always exciting to watch Pakistan do well. Pakistan are getting back to their competitive days 2004-07 period where they were exciting to watch.

    What's good to see is the confidence, its not that in last 5-6 years they didn't get into good position or compete, but they always found a way to squander it.

    Now they win games and also have shown mettle to close out finish games.

    Can't wait for an India-Pakistan clash.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cricfan4eva View Post
    It is always exciting to watch Pakistan do well. Pakistan are getting back to their competitive days 2004-07 period where they were exciting to watch.

    What's good to see is the confidence, its not that in last 5-6 years they didn't get into good position or compete, but they always found a way to squander it.

    Now they win games and also have shown mettle to close out finish games.

    Can't wait for an India-Pakistan clash.
    You are looking too much into some cheap wins against weak sides. Pakistan is still a joke of a team with no mentality, and we will see that in the upcoming WT20.

    A 5 match series between Pakistan and India/England would still result in a 5-0 or 4-1 thrashing.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    You are looking too much into some cheap wins against weak sides. Pakistan is still a joke of a team with no mentality, and we will see that in the upcoming WT20.

    A 5 match series between Pakistan and India/England would still result in a 5-0 or 4-1 thrashing.
    Being unnecessarily harsh. Pakistan can hold their own in T20s. They're not a joke team. They tied the T20 series vs England last year and managed to squeeze in a win vs NZ. Not top top but they have a decent T20 lineup and are deservedly in the top 4. Anything less than the semis will be a failure to Pakistan in the WCT20.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNightWatchman View Post
    Being unnecessarily harsh. Pakistan can hold their own in T20s. They're not a joke team. They tied the T20 series vs England last year and managed to squeeze in a win vs NZ. Not top top but they have a decent T20 lineup and are deservedly in the top 4. Anything less than the semis will be a failure to Pakistan in the WCT20.
    The tied series against England was against a depleted team.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    You are looking too much into some cheap wins against weak sides. Pakistan is still a joke of a team with no mentality, and we will see that in the upcoming WT20.

    A 5 match series between Pakistan and India/England would still result in a 5-0 or 4-1 thrashing.
    You don't turn top side overnight. + You can only play against whatever opposition shows up against you.

    I don't know if i'd agree with your assessment of Pak losing 5-0 or 4-1. Maybe they're not at par with India or England right now, but they look like they're getting there.

    And the contests will certainly be exciting to watch. Pakistan have exciting players now, something that was lacking a few years ago from a neutral fan perspective.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cricfan4eva View Post
    You don't turn top side overnight. + You can only play against whatever opposition shows up against you.

    I don't know if i'd agree with your assessment of Pak losing 5-0 or 4-1. Maybe they're not at par with India or England right now, but they look like they're getting there.

    And the contests will certainly be exciting to watch. Pakistan have exciting players now, something that was lacking a few years ago from a neutral fan perspective.
    Same was said about Pakistan back in 2017-18 period after the Champions Trophy fluke and the bashing of weakened sides.

    It was said that Pakistan have turned a corner with the emergence of new players like Babar, Fakhar, Hassan, Shadab, Imad etc. and the captaincy of Sarfraz.

    However, then the Asia Cup happened where India destroyed Pakistan twice without Kohli, and completely busted the myth that Pakistan had turned a corner and was developing into a formidable unit. It initiated a losing streak that resulted in 21 losses in the next 25 matches.

    I am not impressed with this Pakistan team at all because there are too many weaknesses and shortcomings. They are clearly short on talent and mentality, and there is a lack of leadership as well.

    Babar does not look like a proper captain and has a very timid and negative body language. As a batsman, he is really good but not in the league of Kohli, Rohit, Smith.

    Shaheen is the only good fast bowler and the spin bowling stocks are probably the worst in the world. The middle-order is almost associate level.

    Pakistan can fluke a win against the top sides every now and then, but it is far too mentally weak and unprofessional to beat the likes of India and England over the course of a series.

    I believe that a lot of myths associated with this Pakistan would burst in the WT20.
    Last edited by Mamoon; 11th April 2021 at 14:40.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Same was said about Pakistan back in 2017-18 period after the Champions Trophy fluke and the bashing of weakened sides.

    It was said that Pakistan have turned a corner with the emergence of new players like Babar, Fakhar, Hassan, Shadab, Imad etc. and the captaincy of Sarfraz.

    However, then the Asia Cup happened where India destroyed Pakistan twice without Kohli, and completely busted the myth that Pakistan had turned a corner and was developing into a formidable unit. It initiated a losing streak that resulted in 21 losses in the next 25 matches.

    I am not impressed with this Pakistan team at all because there are too many weaknesses and shortcomings. They are clearly short on talent and mentality, and there is a lack of leadership as well.

    Babar does not look like a proper captain and has a very timid and negative body language. As a batsman, he is really good but not in the league of Kohli, Rohit, Smith.

    Shaheen is the only good fast bowler and the spin bowling stocks are probably the worst in the world. The middle-order is almost associate level.

    Pakistan can fluke a win against the top sides every now and then, but it is far too mentally weak and unprofessional to beat the likes of India and England over the course of a series.

    I believe that a lot of myths associated with this Pakistan would burst in the WT20.
    You're not wrong about the T20 World Cup.

    We keep bashing weakened teams and claim that our team is actually developing, but there is a feeling brewing that we will get a thorough bashing when we face a side that isn't depleted.

    Think about it like this:

    The England side we faced in 2020 was missing their regular openers, Jos Buttler, Ben Stokes, and Archer. We drew to a severely weakened England team.

    The New Zealand T20s were similar, not many of New Zealand's best played all the games consistently, and if I'm not mistaken some bowler previously unheard of by the name Duffy destroyed our entire top order.

    The South Africa T20s in Pakistan were against a depleted team, and the same has happened in South Africa now.

    With all the easy series we've had, you'd think the management would be smart enough to get closer to a fixed first XI, but in reality we've made no progress on that front at all. Quite some incompetent selections still happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Mickey had nothing to do with Babar’s rise or success. He simply found himself in the right place at the right time.

    Babar was tipped for success since he was 13. He was a prodigy. In fact, Pakistan knew about Babar before they knew about Umar Akmal. Babar would have been successful regardless of who was the coach.

    He was scoring FC hundreds against full-strength Australian attack back in 2014.

    Mickey Arthur is a poor coach who failed with Australia, Pakistan and now Sri Lanka. His success with South Africa in the 2000s was down to the great talent that they had at the time.

    No top team will hire him again. He is the new Dav Whatmore and will keep earning his bread in Asia by moving around Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Nepal etc.

    His contract was up after the 2019 World Cup and not a single big team approached him. He doesn’t even get offers from IPL, not even before he coached Pakistan so his association with Pakistan cannot be used as an excuse.
    Whilst that might be true, Misbah if anything was a barrier to Babar's ascendency. Don't forget he ditched him during their time at ISLU.
    Last edited by topspin; 12th April 2021 at 02:00.

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    We have to be cautious.

    This South African team is terrible. Many of the players would struggle to get into many international teams. 10 players were missing in the 1st T20I.



  78. #78
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    Mickey Arthur was the worst thing to happen to PAK cricket in 2 decades.

    Ruined our Test team.
    ODI team.

    One of our longest losing streaks in ODIs achieved by him. Yet he came out after every loss and said "we're a proud team, we hate losing".

    Yes.

    The signature loser comment:
    "We're a proud team, we hate losing". And he said it all with a smirk.

    Thankfully, that dark Mickey Arthur era is history.

    Thank you for rescuing the team again, Misbah!

    First Asian team to beat SA in SA - team Misbah ul Haq.
    Second time Pak did it - team Misbah ul Haq (now as caoch).

    This is like a fairy tale.


  79. #79
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    Frankly speaking I'll stay quiet and will watch for some serious performances as this is good but it is really against a very weak SAF lineup. I hope Pakistan can consistently play this sort of cricket against any opposition in any ground in the world.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Mickey Arthur was the worst thing to happen to PAK cricket in 2 decades.

    Ruined our Test team.
    ODI team.

    One of our longest losing streaks in ODIs achieved by him. Yet he came out after every loss and said "we're a proud team, we hate losing".

    Yes.

    The signature loser comment:
    "We're a proud team, we hate losing". And he said it all with a smirk.

    Thankfully, that dark Mickey Arthur era is history.

    Thank you for rescuing the team again, Misbah!

    First Asian team to beat SA in SA - team Misbah ul Haq.
    Second time Pak did it - team Misbah ul Haq (now as caoch).

    This is like a fairy tale.

    Are we going to lose a test to zimbabve now?


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