All time World Chokers XI


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  1. #1
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    All time World Chokers XI

    Pick any former or current player from any team and era to make your All Time World Chokers XI... Remember you are picking the Chokers XI, so the first criteria should be the player should be good enough but chokes in big matches.

    QDk(wkt)
    Amla
    Kohli(c)
    ABD
    Yousuf
    Misbah(v/c)
    Klusenar
    Lyon
    Waqar
    Donald
    Bumrah

    Honourable mention - Trent Boult

    Appreciate the participation!

  2. #2
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    You have to find a spot for Rohit if it is ODI's.

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    Lyon a good pick. Repeatedly failed to bowl out teams in 4th innings, where he is a skillful enough bowler to do so

    Donald a bit stiff, took 4 for in that SF

    De Villiers shouldn't be here imo. Played a very good innings in the 2015 SF before being stitched up by rain

  4. #4
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    Also Sachin should be there. Performed poorly in tight situations for a player of his quality

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    Lyon a good pick. Repeatedly failed to bowl out teams in 4th innings, where he is a skillful enough bowler to do so

    Donald a bit stiff, took 4 for in that SF

    De Villiers shouldn't be here imo. Played a very good innings in the 2015 SF before being stitched up by rain
    Post your XI too.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    Also Sachin should be there. Performed poorly in tight situations for a player of his quality
    Has a great record in the knockout matches of multi team tournaments.

    Failing in two matches doesn't make one a choker.

  7. #7
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    Great move to make Kohli as the captain.

    Bumrah a very good pick too. At least Kohli has performed in T20 WC knockouts. Bumrah has never turned up in knockout matches.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    Also Sachin should be there. Performed poorly in tight situations for a player of his quality
    Just because you say an incorrect thing multiple times, doesn't make it truth.

  9. #9
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    Just pick any SA player and fill in the XI.

  10. #10
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    Instead of Amla, I'd go with Hafeez.

    This XI has potential to concede 220 and then go 110/0 to all out at 180

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhenSultansBowled View Post
    Instead of Amla, I'd go with Hafeez.

    This XI has potential to concede 220 and then go 110/0 to all out at 180
    Hafeez performed very well in the CT final, without his innings, Pakistan wouldn't have reached nearly 340.

    Amla is arguably the biggest choker in the XI among the batsmen.

  12. #12
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    Klusener was the one who took the match to that stage. If Allan Donald hadn't all of a sudden become a spectator watching the ball and had instead run for a run, they would have been in the finals.

    Gibbs should be there ahead of QdK.

    David Warner should be there. Hasn't scored a run in knock out international games.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by therealAB View Post
    Lyon a good pick. Repeatedly failed to bowl out teams in 4th innings, where he is a skillful enough bowler to do so

    Donald a bit stiff, took 4 for in that SF

    De Villiers shouldn't be here imo. Played a very good innings in the 2015 SF before being stitched up by rain
    Sending Rossouw ahead of himself and batting at no 5 knowing the rain was going to affect the match was extremely stupid and cowardly from AB. Had he taken the responsibility of giving his team the best chance, he should have batted at his regular position instead of pushing himself even lower. Rossouw scored at something like 70 SR for his 30 odd and AB ended up not out on 60 something at 100+SR.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyRabbit View Post
    Sending Rossouw ahead of himself and batting at no 5 knowing the rain was going to affect the match was extremely stupid and cowardly from AB. Had he taken the responsibility of giving his team the best chance, he should have batted at his regular position instead of pushing himself even lower. Rossouw scored at something like 70 SR for his 30 odd and AB ended up not out on 60 something at 100+SR.
    I wouldn't call that choking. I recall multiple headlines and occasions where AB delivered in high pressure situations in both the IPL and for SA. On a scale from 0 - 10 of choking, AB is like a 3. His skill/"good" is 9/10. So given the OPs metric AB is on the list entirely based on his skill

    From all our ATGs AB and Kallis are probably the least chokey.
    Last edited by Ozymandiasza; 26th June 2021 at 00:09.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Pick any former or current player from any team and era to make your All Time World Chokers XI... Remember you are picking the Chokers XI, so the first criteria should be the player should be good enough but chokes in big matches.

    QDk(wkt)
    Amla
    Kohli(c)
    ABD
    Yousuf
    Misbah(v/c)
    Klusenar
    Lyon
    Waqar
    Donald
    Bumrah

    Honourable mention - Trent Boult

    Appreciate the participation!
    I would not have Kohli and Klusener on the list. Kohli has played many high pressure innings. Klusener was let down by his teammates.
    It can be argued that Tendulkar should be on the list but we should not forget he performed vs. Pak in 2003 WC game in a very high pressure match.

    Since most of you seem to be half my age, I would add some others from the past:
    1. Graeme Hick
    2. Mark Ramprakash
    3. Mansoor Akhtar
    4. Vengsarkar
    5. Kallis - guy of his ability could never push his team to a title!


    There should however be a thread on all time crunch time players and in the past pakistan had some real tough guys - Miandad, Moin Khan, Mushtaq and Aaquib Javed as well as Wasim Akram pre-fixing days were just different players under pressure. We dominated India and gave Windies a run for their money. Those glory days may never come back.

    Other crunch time players were Viv Richards (just got bigger depedning on the occassion), Gavaskar, Botham, Lara, Warne, McCrath , Gichrist, Steve Waugh

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by umarf76 View Post
    I would not have Kohli and Klusener on the list. Kohli has played many high pressure innings. Klusener was let down by his teammates.
    It can be argued that Tendulkar should be on the list but we should not forget he performed vs. Pak in 2003 WC game in a very high pressure match.

    Since most of you seem to be half my age, I would add some others from the past:
    1. Graeme Hick
    2. Mark Ramprakash
    3. Mansoor Akhtar
    4. Vengsarkar
    5. Kallis - guy of his ability could never push his team to a title!


    There should however be a thread on all time crunch time players and in the past pakistan had some real tough guys - Miandad, Moin Khan, Mushtaq and Aaquib Javed as well as Wasim Akram pre-fixing days were just different players under pressure. We dominated India and gave Windies a run for their money. Those glory days may never come back.

    Other crunch time players were Viv Richards (just got bigger depedning on the occassion), Gavaskar, Botham, Lara, Warne, McCrath , Gichrist, Steve Waugh
    Mansoor Akhtar, didn't succeed at international level, he was given many chances but never became a permanent member of the side, he was kind of like Shan Masood. Choker would be someone who is otherwise a great Player but fails in an all important crunch situation.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandiasza View Post
    I wouldn't call that choking. I recall multiple headlines and occasions where AB delivered in high pressure situations in both the IPL and for SA. On a scale from 0 - 10 of choking, AB is like a 3. His skill/"good" is 9/10. So given the OPs metric AB is on the list entirely based on his skill

    From all our ATGs AB and Kallis are probably the least chokey.
    Graeme Smith is someone who I would call a tough guy. He reveled in pressure. I haven't considered the metric of IPL or any domestic cricket because all that matters is the international cricket. It's a big misfortune that SA never really collectively ticked in knock outs and sudden death games.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by umarf76 View Post
    I would not have Kohli and Klusener on the list. Kohli has played many high pressure innings. Klusener was let down by his teammates.
    It can be argued that Tendulkar should be on the list but we should not forget he performed vs. Pak in 2003 WC game in a very high pressure match.

    Since most of you seem to be half my age, I would add some others from the past:
    1. Graeme Hick
    2. Mark Ramprakash
    3. Mansoor Akhtar
    4. Vengsarkar
    5. Kallis - guy of his ability could never push his team to a title!


    There should however be a thread on all time crunch time players and in the past pakistan had some real tough guys - Miandad, Moin Khan, Mushtaq and Aaquib Javed as well as Wasim Akram pre-fixing days were just different players under pressure. We dominated India and gave Windies a run for their money. Those glory days may never come back.

    Other crunch time players were Viv Richards (just got bigger depedning on the occassion), Gavaskar, Botham, Lara, Warne, McCrath , Gichrist, Steve Waugh
    Hick and Ramps weren't chokers, they just never could find their feet at the international level. Even then Hick had a 40+ batting average in Ashes I can faintly recall. They both averaged 50+ probably at FC level and in tests kept hovering around the 30 run mark. Ramps probs couldn't make it to 30. Collingwood actually did better than both in tests despite being vastly inferior in terms of batting skills.

  19. #19
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    Not sure how Misbah is considered a choker . A choke would be getting out cheaply in the big matches on regular occasions, not being the last man standing when every one has fallen like a pack of cards .
    Misbah averaged 50 plus in ICC tournaments.

    Mohali was a poor showing all round for our batting line up. The t20 final in 2007 he stood defiant till the end , had he got first ball like Afridi he wonít even have been remembered in that Match.

    We as a nation tend to hate on those who have us hope, and Misbah did that regularly. He failed on some occasions and delivered on some .

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by umarf76 View Post
    I would not have Kohli and Klusener on the list. Kohli has played many high pressure innings. Klusener was let down by his teammates.
    It can be argued that Tendulkar should be on the list but we should not forget he performed vs. Pak in 2003 WC game in a very high pressure match.

    Since most of you seem to be half my age, I would add some others from the past:
    1. Graeme Hick
    2. Mark Ramprakash
    3. Mansoor Akhtar
    4. Vengsarkar
    5. Kallis - guy of his ability could never push his team to a title!


    There should however be a thread on all time crunch time players and in the past pakistan had some real tough guys - Miandad, Moin Khan, Mushtaq and Aaquib Javed as well as Wasim Akram pre-fixing days were just different players under pressure. We dominated India and gave Windies a run for their money. Those glory days may never come back.

    Other crunch time players were Viv Richards (just got bigger depedning on the occassion), Gavaskar, Botham, Lara, Warne, McCrath , Gichrist, Steve Waugh
    Graeme Hick was man of the match in the 1992 World Cup semi final. !

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyRabbit View Post
    Klusener was the one who took the match to that stage. If Allan Donald hadn't all of a sudden become a spectator watching the ball and had instead run for a run, they would have been in the finals.

    Gibbs should be there ahead of QdK.

    David Warner should be there. Hasn't scored a run in knock out international games.
    QDk record is very poor in both the World cups.

    Both Klusenar and Donald name comes up first whenever people talk about greatest bottling ever. Unfair to include one but ignore other.

    Warner has 600+ runs in 2019 WC. He is a bouncy tack bully but far from a choker.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenKhan View Post
    Not sure how Misbah is considered a choker . A choke would be getting out cheaply in the big matches on regular occasions, not being the last man standing when every one has fallen like a pack of cards .
    Misbah averaged 50 plus in ICC tournaments.

    Mohali was a poor showing all round for our batting line up. The t20 final in 2007 he stood defiant till the end , had he got first ball like Afridi he wonít even have been remembered in that Match.

    We as a nation tend to hate on those who have us hope, and Misbah did that regularly. He failed on some occasions and delivered on some .
    Misbah is there for his brainfade in 2007 WT20 final.

    Afridi doesn't qualify after what he did in 2009 WT20.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by umarf76 View Post
    I would not have Kohli and Klusener on the list. Kohli has played many high pressure innings. Klusener was let down by his teammates.
    It can be argued that Tendulkar should be on the list but we should not forget he performed vs. Pak in 2003 WC game in a very high pressure match.

    Since most of you seem to be half my age, I would add some others from the past:
    1. Graeme Hick
    2. Mark Ramprakash
    3. Mansoor Akhtar
    4. Vengsarkar
    5. Kallis - guy of his ability could never push his team to a title!


    There should however be a thread on all time crunch time players and in the past pakistan had some real tough guys - Miandad, Moin Khan, Mushtaq and Aaquib Javed as well as Wasim Akram pre-fixing days were just different players under pressure. We dominated India and gave Windies a run for their money. Those glory days may never come back.

    Other crunch time players were Viv Richards (just got bigger depedning on the occassion), Gavaskar, Botham, Lara, Warne, McCrath , Gichrist, Steve Waugh
    Kallis can't be in this list because he has won SA their only world tournament. If anything, the likes of Pollock, Gibbs and a few others gets there but not Kallis. He was boring, accumulator( like Babar) but not a choker.

    Kohli has played many great innings in bilaterals but not able to pull it off on Big stages qualify him in this list.

    Tendulkar isn't a choker. Dominated 3 World Cups and 3 M.O.M vs Pakistan in World cups

  24. #24
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    I would like to add Tamim Iqbal to the list. Although he hasn't play ICC knockout games but let me shed some light on why I think that he is a massive choker:

    1) He has played 4 ICC World Cups and has scored 0 centuries, and very few substantial knocks overall. In his defense he had a great CT 2017 but that's it. Has a T20WC century but that was against Oman.

    2) Everytime Bangladesh has to chase a big total, he almost always gets out cheaply. I have never seen someone have such terrible stats when chasing big totals. Only a couple of hundreds when chasing in ODIs.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Executioner View Post
    I would like to add Tamim Iqbal to the list. Although he hasn't play ICC knockout games but let me shed some light on why I think that he is a massive choker:

    1) He has played 4 ICC World Cups and has scored 0 centuries, and very few substantial knocks overall. In his defense he had a great CT 2017 but that's it. Has a T20WC century but that was against Oman.

    2) Everytime Bangladesh has to chase a big total, he almost always gets out cheaply. I have never seen someone have such terrible stats when chasing big totals. Only a couple of hundreds when chasing in ODIs.
    Lol I knew a Bangladeshi poster was going to add Tamim's name in the thread.

  26. #26
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    Most Runs in ICC Tournament Semi-finals -Indians

    348 - Ganguly (4 inns, 2 100s, 1 50)
    326- Kohli (7 inns, 4 50s)
    296- Sachin (6 inns, 3 50s)
    266- Rohit (7 inns, 1 100)
    Last edited by King_Kohli; 26th June 2021 at 14:15.


    Virat Kohli is a modern day legend: Viv Richards

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Kohli View Post
    Most Runs in ICC Tournament Semi-finals

    348 - Ganguly (4 inns, 2 100s, 1 50)
    326- Kohli (7 inns, 4 50s)
    296- Sachin (6 inns, 3 50s)
    266- Rohit (7 inns, 1 100)
    Kohli definitely did choke in 2019 WC final. You could see it in his feet movement and body language that day. It almost seemed he felt burdened by his expectations from himself.
    Looked very anxious

  28. #28
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    Most runs in ICC event semis/finals:

    540 - Virat Kohli
    531 - Kumar Sangakkara
    509 - Ricky Ponting
    489 - Sourav Ganguly
    484 - M Jayawardene
    400 - Jacques Kallis
    398 - Rohit Sharma
    398 - Adam Gilchrist
    394 - Sachin Tendulkar
    Last edited by King_Kohli; 26th June 2021 at 13:48.


    Virat Kohli is a modern day legend: Viv Richards

  29. #29
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    Kane Williamson played 9 ICC Knockout matches

    Only Twice, He Scored Half Century

    vs IND (2019 WC)
    vs IND (2021 WTC)*


    Virat Kohli is a modern day legend: Viv Richards

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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Kohli View Post
    Kane Williamson played 9 ICC Knockout matches

    Only Twice, He Scored Half Century

    vs IND (2019 WC)
    vs IND (2021 WTC)*
    Yeah and he carried his team to their very first world title and cemented himself as a all time great of the game, the other the 50 was crucial in a low scoring game in a game where they were massive underdogs.

    It ain't close.
    Last edited by Aman; 26th June 2021 at 13:48.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

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    Virat Kohli in ICC Finals:

    35 - WC 2011 finals - Winners
    43 (HS) - CT 2013 finals - Winners
    77 (HS) - WC T20 2014 finals
    5 - CT 2017 finals
    57 - WTC 2017 finals
    Last edited by King_Kohli; 26th June 2021 at 14:38.


    Virat Kohli is a modern day legend: Viv Richards

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    Has a great record in the knockout matches of multi team tournaments.

    Failing in two matches doesn't make one a choker.
    You should apply same logic to Kohli as well.


    Virat Kohli is a modern day legend: Viv Richards

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Kohli View Post
    You should apply same logic to Kohli as well.
    Tendulkar has bossed multiple world cups. He is basically the best world cup player ever. His only blemish is the finals.

    How many ICC tournaments Kohli has bossed, never mind about world cups. To my knowledge, he has only bossed T20 world cups but has consistently underperformed in ODI world cups.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    Tendulkar has bossed multiple world cups. He is basically the best world cup player ever. His only blemish is the finals.

    How many ICC tournaments Kohli has bossed, never mind about world cups. To my knowledge, he has only bossed T20 world cups but has consistently underperformed in ODI world cups.
    This discussion is about choking in big matches, not about bossing world cups.
    Many players bossed in WC's including Rohit Sharma but that doesn't mean they are not chokers in crucial matches.

    Agree, Tendulkar dominated in few WC's but he bottled in all finals ,finally he won only ICC trophy in his career.
    His grand total in WC finals 4+18 = 22.

    I have already provided kohli stats in finals.
    Kohli performed much better than Sachin in ICC Finals and won two ICC ODI trophies in his career.
    Well, if you call him as a choker then every one is choker.
    Last edited by King_Kohli; 26th June 2021 at 16:50.


    Virat Kohli is a modern day legend: Viv Richards

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Kohli View Post
    This discussion is about choking in big matches, not about bossing world cups.
    Many players bossed in WC's including Rohit Sharma but that doesn't mean they are not chokers in crucial matches.

    Agree, Tendulkar dominated in few WC's but he bottled in many SF's and all finals ,finally he won only ICC trophy in his career.
    His grand total in WC finals 4+18 = 22.

    I have already provided kohli stats in finals.
    Kohli performed much better than Sachin in ICC Finals and won two ICC ODI trophies in his career.
    Well, if you call him as a choker then every one is choker.
    Average of Indian batsmen in knockout matches in ODI world cups (QFs, SFs and Finals):

    Tendulkar - 48.42
    Dhoni - 48.80
    Gambhir - 58
    Rohit - 57.33
    Sehwag - 33
    Raina - 77
    King Kohli - 12.16

    Name:  Screenshot_20210626-154544~2.jpg
Views: 259
Size:  23.6 KB

    https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...2;type=batting

  36. #36
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    Gambhir and Raina have been the most clutch players in Indian cricket.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    Average of Indian batsmen in knockout matches in ODI world cups (QFs, SFs and Finals):

    Tendulkar - 48.42
    Dhoni - 48.80
    Gambhir - 58
    Rohit - 57.33
    Sehwag - 33
    Raina - 77
    King Kohli - 12.16

    Name:  Screenshot_20210626-154544~2.jpg
Views: 259
Size:  23.6 KB

    https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...2;type=batting
    You are conveniently taking only Kohli's failed matches in ODI WCs.
    What about other big stage matches? Dont you think CT and WT20 are big stage matches?
    Every player has failed at some criteria like Tendulkar bottled in finals.


    Virat Kohli is a modern day legend: Viv Richards

  38. #38
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    Most runs in Final, SF and QF of ICC tournaments (WC, WT20, CT):

    731 - Ponting (45.68 ave, 3 100s in 18 inns)
    657 - Tendulkar (50.53, 1 in 14)
    595 - Sangakkara (39.66, 0 in 18)
    539 - Kallis (59.88, 1 in 11)
    514 - Ganguly (85.66, 3 in 8)
    513 - Kohli (57.00, 0 in 13)


    Virat Kohli is a modern day legend: Viv Richards

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    Average of Indian batsmen in knockout matches in ODI world cups (QFs, SFs and Finals):

    Tendulkar - 48.42
    Dhoni - 48.80
    Gambhir - 58
    Rohit - 57.33
    Sehwag - 33
    Raina - 77
    King Kohli - 12.16

    Name:  Screenshot_20210626-154544~2.jpg
Views: 259
Size:  23.6 KB

    https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...2;type=batting
    What is the average of Sachin in non-KO games

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Kohli View Post
    You are conveniently taking only Kohli's failed matches in ODI WCs.
    What about other big stage matches? Dont you think CT and WT20 are big stage matches?
    Every player has failed at some criteria like Tendulkar bottled in finals.
    I am not conveniently taking only Kohli's failed matches. The fact is he has failed when it mattered in the knockouts of the world cup almost every single time he has played one, even vs Bangladesh of all teams.

    Why would I consider T20 cricket when comparing both players as Tendulkar hardly played the format. Kohli is probably the GOAT in T20 cricket because of his ICC tournament record, but in ODI cricket, he has been a choker when it has mattered.

    Nobody gives a **** about champions trophy tbh. It's the Europa League of ICC tournaments.

    South Africa have won the Champions trophy, do you think anybody gives a care about it? World cup is what matters and it's why SA are considered chokers for falling short on the world cup stage every single time even though they've won the Champions trophy.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    What is the average of Sachin in non-KO games
    Sachin - 58.75
    Kohli - 59.81

    https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...2;type=batting

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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    I am not conveniently taking only Kohli's failed matches. The fact is he has failed when it mattered in the knockouts of the world cup almost every single time he has played one, even vs Bangladesh of all teams.

    Why would I consider T20 cricket when comparing both players as Tendulkar hardly played the format. Kohli is probably the GOAT in T20 cricket because of his ICC tournament record, but in ODI cricket, he has been a choker when it has mattered.

    Nobody gives a **** about champions trophy tbh. It's the Europa League of ICC tournaments.

    South Africa have won the Champions trophy, do you think anybody gives a care about it? World cup is what matters and it's why SA are considered chokers for falling short on the world cup stage every single time even though they've won the Champions trophy.
    Again you talking about ODI cricket but don't like to consider CT which is a ODI format.
    ODI performance on big stage
    2011 WC Finals - 35
    2013 CT Semi Finals – 58*
    2013 CT FInals 43 ( HS)
    2017 CT VL QF - 76*
    2017 CT Semi Finals - 96*


    If you dont want o give a damnnn about CT, that's your personal choice bro, except you many consider Champions Trophy as a big tournament.
    Infact every ICC tournament is valuable, competent and playing on big stage.
    We cant belittle other tournaments achievements other than ODI WC's.
    Last edited by King_Kohli; 26th June 2021 at 16:24.


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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    Both donít do as well then when it comes to crunch games, massive gap however for Kohli, but Sachin has played more games to. With some events coming up in India I expect Kohli to improve his average.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Kohli View Post
    That your personal choice bro, except you many consider Champions Trophy as a big tournament.
    Infact every ICC tournament is valuable, competent and playing on big stage.
    We cant belittle other tournaments achievements other than ODI WC Tournaments.
    Desi fans will "care" about any cricket event. If tomorrow the ICC starts a T10 WC, our fans would still watch because they're mad about cricket, particularly short form cricket. Doesn't mean all ICC tournaments have the same prestige.

    I bet not many cricket fans would even know that South Africa won the inaugural champions trophy or can name the year when NZ won it or West Indies won it. But many cricket fans would name all the ICC world cup winners with the years from 1975 to 2019. Sure we can't belittle other tournaments, but the FIFA world cup matters more than the Copa America and the Wimbledon & Roland Garros matter more than the ATP tour events.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Both donít do as well then when it comes to crunch games, massive gap however for Kohli, but Sachin has played more games to. With some events coming up in India I expect Kohli to improve his average.
    Sachin did have his failures but it wasn't any more than his counterparts tbh. I wouldn't even consider his failure in the 2003 WC final as a failure. The match was lost when we conceded 350+ in the final. And this was in 2003, when chasing such a score in any match would be virtually impossible never mind in the world cup final. It's like calling a bowler as a choker for failing to pick wickets and defend the total after his side got bowled out for 150 in the final. The real people who choked in that final were our bowlers.

    I didn't include all other multi team tournaments in the statistic, if I included it, Sachin's record even in the finals would be very high. I like Kohli and I think he's a much better chaser than Sachin ever was, but there's no competition between both as far as world cups are concerned. The gulf between their respective performances in world cups is as much as the gulf between Maradona and Messi's performances in world cups.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Both don’t do as well then when it comes to crunch games, massive gap however for Kohli, but Sachin has played more games to.
    More games mean more chances to fail too. Its a double edged sword!

  47. #47
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    Truth is, Kohli hasn't performed at even optimum level in knock out games, let alone anywhere near Tendulkar's level!

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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    Sachin did have his failures but it wasn't any more than his counterparts tbh. I wouldn't even consider his failure in the 2003 WC final as a failure.

    The real people who choked in that final were our bowlers.

    Terms and conditions apply for only Sachin


    Virat Kohli is a modern day legend: Viv Richards

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman View Post
    He is unable to face facts regarding Kohli. I myself am a big Kohli fan, but he has so far really disappointed me in ICC Tournaments.
    I used to be his fan myself, huge fan! I stopped following the game when he got out, something which was reserved for Tendulkar only and no one else!

    However ever since he got married, his priorities in life got changed completely.

    PS: Not blaming Anushka (even for a moment) for his poor form, far from it.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Kohli View Post
    Terms and conditions apply for only Sachin
    No one blames Kohli's batting for our loss in CT '17 as target set for us was almost insurmountable, its our bowlers led by Mr Bumrah who choked that day and not our batsmen.

    Likewise in WC '03 finals when chasing such targets was unheard of especially against such a champion bowling lineup.

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    For me, Rohit Sharma is a big choker, he's a run machine in group matches but flops whenever it counts.

  52. #52
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    @MP2011 - I corrected my post, thanks.

    @Hitmam


    What is the fact?
    Sachin bottled in Finals, Kohli bottled in SF's

    Scored decent 35 in ODI WC final and highest scorer in CT final, how do you call him a choker when a player won two ICC trophies?
    How come Kohli only choker but not Sachin.

    I am ok if you call him a choker but same logic should apply to all other players


    Virat Kohli is a modern day legend: Viv Richards

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Kohli View Post
    Terms and conditions apply for only Sachin
    It is why I'm not criticising Kohli for his failure in the CT final. Indian bowlers lost the match, not Indian batsmen.

    I don't criticise Kohli for matches which were difficult to win. The 2015 SFs for example, Australia were the better team anyway. So that doesn't matter as much. But take the 2019 SF, we were chasing a low total. Kohli used to chase 300 totals eyes closed but failed while chasing a sub par total by NZ. This doesn't apply only to ODI cricket. I've seen him failing to chase low totals even in test cricket when it matters. Eg. Edgbaston 2018, Cape Town 2017. Southampton 2018.

    And even in the final, on the last day, all he had to do was stay in the crease for the first session. But he looked completely out of sorts against Jamieson and got out very early which triggered the collapse. If you look at the 2nd day when India were continuing from 140/3, again he got out very early which started the collapse. A good innings from him would have taken India to a total near 300. Instead we were bowled out for 217.

    And this is where Kohli frustrates me the most. It is not that he can't play in difficult conditions. His innings on the quickest surfaces I've seen in years at the Wanderers in '17 and Perth in '18 were nothing short of art. His entire performance in the 2018 tour of England in very very difficult conditions to bat was a masterclass. But when a scenario arises that India are chasing a target to win in the last innings, even if the target is under 200, he lets the pressure get to him and gets out. Maybe he needs to look at Pant who doesn't care about getting out and bats with a devil may care attitude. It looks like he over complicates things under pressure

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by SangasCoverDrive View Post
    For me, Rohit Sharma is a big choker, he's a run machine in group matches but flops whenever it counts.
    All are chokers, just criteria will change. Its depends on what kind of filter you are using to judge a choker.

    For me its Bumrah.


    Virat Kohli is a modern day legend: Viv Richards

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP2011 View Post
    More games mean more chances to fail too. Its a double edged sword!
    True but surely in India he ought to do much better perhaps, he wont find himself in a more compatible position.

  56. #56
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    Misbah should be the captain of Choker XI and Waqar should be his deputy. No one can even close to any of these 2 legends.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shafi View Post
    Misbah should be the captain of Choker XI and Waqar should be his deputy. No one can even close to any of these 2 legends.
    Lol I think we need to decide the coach of this choker XI.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Executioner View Post
    I would like to add Tamim Iqbal to the list. Although he hasn't play ICC knockout games but let me shed some light on why I think that he is a massive choker:

    1) He has played 4 ICC World Cups and has scored 0 centuries, and very few substantial knocks overall. In his defense he had a great CT 2017 but that's it. Has a T20WC century but that was against Oman.

    2) Everytime Bangladesh has to chase a big total, he almost always gets out cheaply. I have never seen someone have such terrible stats when chasing big totals. Only a couple of hundreds when chasing in ODIs.
    Interesting mention. I did felt someone from BD should be there. Shakib came first in my mind due to his poor behaviour on-field recently but the topic here is different. Tamim maybe you are right but my memory of him is more of what he did vs Zaheer Khan in 2007 World Cup. Ofcourse, he should have done better over the course of next 10 years which he hasn't unfortunately.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Interesting mention. I did felt someone from BD should be there. Shakib came first in my mind due to his poor behaviour on-field recently but the topic here is different. Tamim maybe you are right but my memory of him is more of what he did vs Zaheer Khan in 2007 World Cup. Ofcourse, he should have done better over the course of next 10 years which he hasn't unfortunately.
    Shakib has been a great player for them in ODIís and had a massive 2019 WC which will go a long way in cementing his own legacy

  60. #60
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    The problem with Kohli is that compared to the standards that he has set for himself, his performance in World Cup has simply not been good enough.

    He won the ICC ODI cricketer of the decade 2010s and T20 cricketer ( not too sure about that but surely was up there). But if you make a 2015 World Cup Team of the tournament, you will not pick him in the best XI of the World Cup.

    You make a 2019 World Cup Team of the tournament, you still will not pick him in the best XI of the tournament.

    You pick WTC 2019-21 Team of the tournament, you still won't pick him in the best XI of the tournament.

    That is vastly inferior performance to the standards he has set for him in bilaterals. Someone who is up there with the greatest doesn't make it to any ODI world Cup team best XI is pretty average performance.

    Tendulkar, on other hand, would get into Team of the World Cup tournaments of 1996, 2003 and 2011.

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    After 4 years Rishabh Pant will make it into OP's team.

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    Shoaib Malik shoould be there


    "Nations are born in the hearts of poets, they prosper and die in the hands of politicians."-Iqbal

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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    Lol I think we need to decide the coach of this choker XI.


    Perfect candidate, didn't even have to look for another one: Mr. 'We have a legacy like WI did in the 80s and Australia did in the turn of the century' aka Ravi Shastri

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