"No reason why Andy Flower cannot take role of Pakistan Head Coach in the future" : Azhar Mahmood


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  1. #1
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    "No reason why Andy Flower cannot take role of Pakistan Head Coach in the future" : Azhar Mahmood

    In his latest blog for PakPassion.net the bowling coach for Multan Sultans, Azhar Mahmood, writes about how an initially struggling side were able to turn things around to win PSL 6, the bright future that awaits Shahnawaz Dahani, why he feels Andy Flower would be an ideal coach for Pakistan, the value of impact players like Sohaib Maqsood and Asif Ali, Imran Tahir's importance to any team in the world and looks forward to his coaching assignment in The Hundred.




    Great feeling to be crowned as champions of Pakistan Super League

    It’s been a great feeling and a big achievement to be crowned Pakistan Super League champions, especially if you consider where we were at the start of the Abu Dhabi leg where we had won just one game until that point. Of course, the boys deserve credit for the role they played and how they executed the plans provided to them, but so does the team management of this wonderful team. The leadership of Mohammad Rizwan was brilliant and he lead from the front throughout the tournament, then we had the highest wicket-taker in the tournament in the shape of Shahnawaz Dahani and the brilliance of Sohaib Maqsood to admire as well. All the bowlers stepped up to the plate and the bowling unit towered over all others in this tournament.


    A lot of people thought that Multan Sultans will be the first to be knocked out, but they were proved wrong

    The break in the tournament, as unfortunate as it was, came at the right time for us. It allowed us a breather and a chance to examine our shortcomings and what improvements we needed to make to have a realistic chance to progress. We had seen what had happened in last year’s PSL where we were top before the break and then lost our way when the tournament resumed. I always believe that winning Twenty20 competitions is all about momentum. It depends on when you reach your peak and sometimes, if you peak too early then you lose steam when it matters at the end, and this is a trend we have seen in most Twenty20 leagues around the world. A lot of people thought that our time was up in the tournament, and we would be the first ones to drop out, but they were proved wrong. To be honest, our victory in the first game of the Abu Dhabi leg seemed to put a new resolve in our players and showed how just by concentrating on one game at a time, and not worrying about where you are in the table, any side can turn things around.

    Of course, winning games with good margins really helped in pushing up our net run rate which in turn pushed us to towards the top of the table. And then we came up against a team like Islamabad United in the Play-Offs who were, at least on paper, superior to us in terms of player quality. But whilst we had a side which had just 7 batsmen and a tail which was more like that of a 90’s team, we were very fortunate to have the likes of Shan Masood and Mohammad Rizwan who set up the innings so well and provided the base for others to build upon.




    We may have found another Shoaib Akhtar in Shahnawaz Dahani

    Shahnawaz Dahani obviously has a bright future ahead of him. For someone who has just played one full First-class season so far to come to his first PSL and end up as the highest wicket-taker is absolutely incredible and speaks volumes about Dahani’s skills. He is a good learner, has a lot of energy, is an entertainer and is the kind of player that everyone wants in their dressing room or on the field where not only does he enjoy his own game but can lift the spirits of the team with his positive attitude and body language. One cannot say now that he is a complete bowler as he has more to learn but I would say that he has all the abilities and skills which tell me that he will become a very good asset for Pakistan in the future. He definitely has the ability to bowl at good speeds but he will need to work on his line and length and learn to pitch the ball up for more success. One of the best qualities about Dahani’s bowling is that he can bowl inswing which is essential if you wish to take wickets. Outswing may be pleasant to the eye but remember it’s inswing which will get you more wickets as that gives the bowler many more ways of getting a batsman out. So Dahani has to work on variations in his bowling, but he is improving very quickly. If you compare his bowling in the first phase of the tournament, he was bowling short and getting wickets. In the second phase, he started to pitch the ball up a bit more and we also worked on his wrist position at point of delivery which really helped him out. And I am not kidding when I say we may have found another Shoaib Akhtar in Shahnawaz Dahani - in terms of bowling speed and his attitude.


    There is no substitute for experience, and we were lucky to have Sohail Tanvir amongst our ranks

    No one can doubt the utility of Sohail Tanvir for the team in terms of his skills, ability and experience. It’s no wonder that he is one of the most sought-after players in league cricket around the world. He may have seemed a little off-colour in the Karachi leg of the tournament but in Abu Dhabi, his fitness was much better and the way he bowled for us at crucial times was absolutely brilliant and of course who can forget that cameo of 26 runs off just 9 deliveries against Lahore Qalandars! Fact of the matter is that there is no substitute for experience, and we were lucky to have Tanvir and also Imran Khan amongst our ranks who despite not having that much experience of Twenty20 cricket bowled exceptionally for us. And how can one forget what Blessing Muzarabani did for us in his first Twenty20 League tournament! Teams had been scoring freely even after powerplays but what our bowling depth allowed us to do was to restrict scores against us even after the initial phase of the innings.


    I don’t see any reason why Andy Flower cannot take on the role of Pakistan Head Coach in the future

    I have had the honour to work with Andy Flower during T10 and in two editions of PSL and I absolutely love the guy! He has great knowledge of the modern-day game and he is renowned the world over as a coach, but the most important aspect of his style of coaching is the way he pays attention to the views of others. No opinion which helps the team win is too big or small for him to consider and whilst he will rightfully take the final decision, he will always listen with great care to other members of his staff and the players before doing so. I don’t see any reason why he cannot take on the role of Pakistan Head Coach in the future.




    People need to understand the true value of impact players like Sohaib Maqsood, Asif Ali and Khushdil Shah

    Sohaib Maqsood was a changed player in this PSL, and he has rightfully been rewarded with a place in the Pakistan white-ball squad for the tours of England and West Indies. He was given a lot of freedom to express himself when he played for Southern Punjab and that has paid dividends now. What a lot of somewhat emotional fans don’t understand when judging impact players like Sohaib Maqsood and Asif Ali or Khushdil Shah is the value such a player provides to the side. The expectation is that such a player will perform 8 times out of 10 in a tournament but in reality, the only thing that is expected from such players is to win you 2-3 games out of 10 by themselves. The remaining 10 players are supposed to help out with good results in the other 7-8 games and that should be enough to take the team to the top. Look at the case of Glen Maxwell in the IPL – he won’t win you every game but he does well in 2-3 games. We need to understand the role such players play when they are asked to bat at the number 5 or 6 positions where it’s not easy to bat. This is where good management comes into play as they are able to get the best out of such talented players at the right times.


    Imran Khan never disappointed us when we needed him

    Imran Khan was a solid up front with the new ball for us and an integral part of our success story in PSL 6. Pitches in Abu Dhabi were a little helpful for fast-bowlers but only the bowlers who could maintain good lines and lengths were the ones who did not go for that many runs. We put in place many plans for different batsmen, but all this planning is useful only when the bowlers have the control to execute them under pressure and in that sense both Imran and Tanvir were simply outstanding. With Imran, he never disappointed us when we needed him and for someone who had always been considered a red-ball bowler, he performed like a superstar in PSL 6. Even his pace was up during this tournament, and he was regularly hitting 137-138 Kph which is a big change to the time he was on tour with me for Pakistan when he was bowling close to the 127-130Kph mark.





    Imran Tahir’s name would be the first name in every team I select

    Imran Tahir’s attitude and energy level is one that I feel carries the team with him. Not only does he carry himself in the field as a senior but his fielding and catching has been superb. For me, his bowling skills are right up there and if I were to select any side, Imran Tahir would always be the first name on the list.


    The secret codes used by Multan Sultans in PSL 6

    The number codes we used in PSL were secret signals for the captain and bowlers as to what they can do on the field. Of course, this is not telling the captain what to do but instead it's advice for the skipper based upon our analysis using technology to say which bowler is the best match for which batsman and so on.


    Looking forward to working with Tom Moody for The Oval Invincibles

    I am really looking forward to my coaching assignment with The Oval Invincibles under the leadership of Tom Moody. This will be my first time where I will work alongside Tom and I am really looking forward to it and hopefully the experience of The Hundred will be an exciting one for all of us.
    Last edited by MenInG; 29th June 2021 at 18:26.


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  2. #2
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    If Andy Flower is to get a coaching stint with Pakistan cricket then this would be a massive step in our cricket history (something similar to getting Woolmer on board).

    But before Flower takes over PCB would need to ensure this is done right. PCB should ensure Flower gets a perfect transition into the role and is simply not thrown into the deep end. Some of the things PBC would need to ensure.

    1. Misbah should become cricket Director. His primary role would be player management, media relations, helping chairman and PCB with cricket calendar and scheduling also working with ICC.

    2. Flower get to pick his support staff. This would include bowling, batting, fielding and psychologist/personal trainer for the team. He is given the authority to name his support staff who would then need to be vetted by PCB before appointment.

    3. Flower is helped locally and associated with a panel of local IT experts / statisticians to implement statistics and use of technology in our on-field performance. This is very important and I understand Flower is a big fan of using the technology correctly.

    For all of the above to take place the following should happen.

    1. Mani should be replaced by Wasim Khan while Misbah becomes Director of cricket.
    2. Both Misbah and Flower should disassociate themselves with a PSL franchise.
    3. Flower and his support team works from Pakistan.

    I truly hope this comes to fruition.

  3. #3
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    I find it hard to envisage why Flower would be interested in another international coaching job when he can make twice or thrice the salary of an international coach through these short stints in franchise cricket.

  4. #4
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    Credit where it's due, MS turned things around brilliantly.

    The key was sorting out the batting order, signing some decent overseas replacements, and having a consistent and reliable bowling line-up.



  5. #5
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    @ Extra cover , Come out from Misbah , he has not made single player in his tenure either he was captain or coach ,he is curse for Pakistan cricket . his body language is not fit for any senior position even head coach too .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Monetarist View Post
    I find it hard to envisage why Flower would be interested in another international coaching job when he can make twice or thrice the salary of an international coach through these short stints in franchise cricket.
    Well if he ever fancies a challenge he sure knows where to find one.

  8. #7
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    Don't agree with him regarding the likes of Asif, Sohaib and Khushdil only need to perform 2-3 games out of 10. Maxwell is a far better player than them and is a full package and a utility player. He performs with the bat much more than just 2-3 times/10 games. Plus Australia is a strong enough team to carry a player who may not be needed to perform in every game, a bit like Moeen Ali and Sam Curran who can be afforded to be carried by their team and they would give match winning performances every few games.

    The thing is Pakistan isn't a strong enough LOI team that can carry non performers in it and expect to win many games with 10 players effectively. We are already a team with merely 3 batters, absent middle order and then some tail thanks to Hassan Ali's exploits.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Monetarist View Post
    I find it hard to envisage why Flower would be interested in another international coaching job when he can make twice or thrice the salary of an international coach through these short stints in franchise cricket.
    Yes true and with less pressure.

    Franchise coaches are onto a winner these days, good money for a few weeks here and there through the year. Then move onto the next assignment.



  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Yes true and with less pressure.

    Franchise coaches are onto a winner these days, good money for a few weeks here and there through the year. Then move onto the next assignment.
    Absolutely, the PCB will need to give Flower absolute authority and pay a hefty premium to entice him to a role which is often filled with delirious tension. I find it improbable that they will go the extra mile to hire him.

  11. #10
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    without foreign coach we cannot ensure younis type episodes and embarrassment won't happen again!
    Pakistani former players have inflated egoes!!! They are never a good role model for our players lot as most of them come from a background where they are expected to follow blindly like Gov Schools teachers with sticks!!!

  12. #11
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    Misbah and the other oldies need to be kept away from the coaching staff period, bring in foreign management and coaches from top to bottom

  13. #12
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    According to a media report, Andy Flower has rejected PCB's approach for Head Coach role as he wants to concentrate on franchise cricket.


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    According to a media report, Andy Flower has rejected PCB's approach for Head Coach role as he wants to concentrate on franchise cricket.
    That's sad. Can we offer him to coach maximum of two franchises (plus PSL) alongside being our head coach?

  15. #14
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    It is seen why, he coaches most t20 franchises around the world hence it would require lots of travelling and plus PCB is already against the conflict of interests as well and plus it would require Andy Flower to relocate in Pakistan.

    They should consider other options like Herschelle Gibbs... I wish Dean Jones was alive

  16. #15
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    Unfortunate but maybe he will reconsider one day

  17. #16
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    No decent foreign coach wants to work with unprofessional cricket board like PCB where a member from coach review committee who doesn't have any skill/qualification/experience sacked a professional coach with experience and then replaced him by taking over head coach plus 2 other top position.

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    According to a media report, Andy Flower has rejected PCB's approach for Head Coach role as he wants to concentrate on franchise cricket.
    I've asked a senior PCB official about this. His response.

    "How can Andy Flower turn the role of Pakistan Head Coach down if he has not been offered the role"



  19. #18
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    If PCB can splash the cash, any foreign coach would be delighted to become a member of the PCB's coaching panel.

    We give them low salaries and expect big results, that's not how the game works.

    You need to be willing to spend a large amount of money to see results. Our players are some of the lowest played international cricketers in the world.

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    I've asked a senior PCB official about this. His response.

    "How can Andy Flower turn the role of Pakistan Head Coach down if he has not been offered the role"
    Most likely a cover-up because it won't look good if the PCB got denied.

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shafi View Post
    No decent foreign coach wants to work with unprofessional cricket board like PCB where a member from coach review committee who doesn't have any skill/qualification/experience sacked a professional coach with experience and then replaced him by taking over head coach plus 2 other top position.
    Exactly and the worst part was Mickey Arthur being backstabbed by Misbah who worked alongside him when he was captain. Everyone would have take notice which is why it’s highly unlikely Pakistan will get a decent foreign coach in the future. All mickeys efforts have gone down the drain and the teams actually gone backwards.

    Imran khan talked a lot about previous PMs and how they shouldn’t interfere with the cricket board but he’s done exactly the same thing like a hypocrite. Brought Misbah who is a distant relative for 3 high profile roles after giving his pal Ehsan mani a call and now making his old team mate Ramiz raja the PCB chairman. They all like to talk a lot but they are the same. Dirty old cycle of nepotism, corruption and playing the blame game every time you get caught out with no accountability.


  22. #21
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    You want a top quality coach pay $600,000 per annum

  23. #22
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    Pakistan need to get in Jayawardhane kind of coach. He was tactically good as well as a good batsman.

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    You want a top quality coach pay $600,000 per annum
    Pretty much. Misbah’s pay is around USD 250,000 give or take. PCBs surplus income in 2020 itself was 3 billion PKR plus. Surely paying USD 600,000 is something they can afford and include in their budgeting if they are willing to give that much importance to the role.

    Flower must be earning as much as Misbah’s current pay or maybe a bit more by coaching in franchise cricket 3-4 months a year and to attract him form financial point of few a better package will have to be offered.

  25. #24
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    Why would Flower want to come and join the circus?

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    It is becoming increasingly difficult to attract top quality coaches because of franchise cricket.

    Why would you want a full-time commitment with a national team, especially a talentless and mediocre team like Pakistan, when you can earn big money in franchise cricket for 2-3 weeks of work?

    Moreover, there is less accountability in franchise cricket and you can move around from one league/team to another without much fuss.

    Pakistan should try to get Flower on board but it will be very difficult to convince him.

  27. #26
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    I am not going to comment on PCB offering Andy Flower head coach as there is no progress on this. I am unable to determine why is his name being floating in the media when Flower has refused back in January? Now Pakistani media works with input from PCB officials. And there is this feeling that the media is being played around to sustain Misbah's position. Given the credentials of Misbah with zero experience in coaching. There are dozens of suitable candidates available locally and internationally apart from Flower. If PCB wants to replace Misbah ul Haq they can hire any coach and inform the media. Pakistani s are fed up with Misbah while the PM Imran Khan wants to keep him. No need to waste time by playing such games either replace him or stop floating such news that no one wants to work with Pakistan team, there are many who desire to take up this task for various reasons.

  28. #27
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    More lies with ; the way Mickey was removed after first being offered an extension, just to bring the greatest coach Misbah ; plus Steve Rixo's salary issues is pretty out in international media

    Only best they can get m, if Mickey gets sacked after T20 WC, and Pakistan gets 1st round exit as well
    Then its marriage (Mickey , Pakistan team) made in heaven

  29. #28
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    The most important person for PK cricket is Babar. If Babar has a good decade, we will be OK, if he doesn't, its anyone's guess. Coaches at the higher level make marginal difference. As I have said on here many times, in my conversations with FC players, coaches don't coach like what we the lay people perceive. Infact, there is very little one to one coaching. I asked an ex FC what happens when you are struggling and he told me that help is available but players are expected to seek it and they have to get into nets with these specialists. I spoke to a current county player about a month ago, and I asked him how it's done with him,he told me lots of analysis is done when they have county practice time.
    So this brings me to my point about Andy Flower. He will be paid with a fortune which we cant afford, he will have little or no impact bar a few clichés and he will sit and look concerned when things go wrong,basically what Misbah is doing now. Spend the money on domestic players and on better wickets and we will get more. If we want an analyst, then we have one of the greats in Miandad, bring him to help Babar with tactics.
    .
    Last edited by Bewal Express; 30th August 2021 at 17:03.

  30. #29
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    Andy Flower would be a great option for Pakistan. He took England to a great height (#1 in Test ranking, 2010 World T20 trophy etc.) last time.


    Bangladeshi Man

  31. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    Andy Flower would be a great option for Pakistan. He took England to a great height (#1 in Test ranking, 2010 World T20 trophy etc.) last time.
    What's he offer? What will he do?

  32. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    What's he offer? What will he do?
    Check his track record. Check his credentials.


    Bangladeshi Man

  33. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    Check his track record. Check his credentials.
    Based on that criteria Ravi is amazing coach as Ind won In Australia and reached the apex or why not the NZ coach. Its the type of thing I expected you to write because you have no idea about his coaching abilities. In the same breadth, the coach of the windies must be terrible because they are below us.

  34. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Based on that criteria Ravi is amazing coach as Ind won In Australia and reached the apex or why not the NZ coach. Its the type of thing I expected you to write because you have no idea about his coaching abilities. In the same breadth, the coach of the windies must be terrible because they are below us.
    I don't think anyone here (including you) knows all the details about Andy Flower's coaching as nobody here has worked with him before. But, we can judge him based on how he did with teams.

    England used to be a punching bag of everybody but they became #1 under Andy Flower. They also won their first world title under Andy Flower. They also won Ashes in Australia.

    Coach of West Indies is indeed more terrible than Andy Flower. What has Simmons won?

    It is the result that matters.


    Bangladeshi Man

  35. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweep_shot View Post
    I don't think anyone here (including you) knows all the details about Andy Flower's coaching as nobody here has worked with him before. But, we can judge him based on how he did with teams.

    England used to be a punching bag of everybody but they became #1 under Andy Flower. They also won their first world title under Andy Flower. They also won Ashes in Australia.

    Coach of West Indies is indeed more terrible than Andy Flower. What has Simmons won?

    It is the result that matters.
    This is my point. We have the PR guff or results and neither tells us anything. What a coach should be asked is examples of players they have improved and how they did it. Otherwise you are paying a fortune to a guy and you realise that he makes no difference
    For your information Phil Simmons won a T20 WC with the Windies.

  36. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    This is my point. We have the PR guff or results and neither tells us anything. What a coach should be asked is examples of players they have improved and how they did it. Otherwise you are paying a fortune to a guy and you realise that he makes no difference
    For your information Phil Simmons won a T20 WC with the Windies.
    Results matter.

    Keep things simple. If coaches were asked to highlight players they improved, no team would want to ever get rid of their head coach.

    Life is about results. You can make up excuses about how batsman A scored more 50s under a coach's tenure, or you can look at the facts and see that the team is slowly and gradually slipping from the rankings.

    Statistics and data govern the world. You cannot judge a coach's tenure "qualitatively", it is impossible.

    Numbers and data, the world is run by both. We can either be on the same boat as the rest of the world or keep relying on our "intuitions" and "eye for talent" which will inevitably dig us a deeper hole than we are currently in.

    Qualitative thinking is what prevented Fawad Alam's test career from taking off.

    You only rely on qualitative thinking when there are a number of options of the exact same or identical performances, where you can afford to pick which one you like for various reasons.

    A clear example is two batsmen in FC both about the age of 25 averaging 44.50, but bat with different hands. A team stocked with RA batsmen would take the leftie, not because of numerical reasons but logical, qualitative reasons.

  37. #36
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    I heard Salman Butt say that PCB is in talks with Peter Moores. He does not look like a right choice for country like Pakistan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    Results matter.

    Keep things simple. If coaches were asked to highlight players they improved, no team would want to ever get rid of their head coach.

    Life is about results. You can make up excuses about how batsman A scored more 50s under a coach's tenure, or you can look at the facts and see that the team is slowly and gradually slipping from the rankings.

    Statistics and data govern the world. You cannot judge a coach's tenure "qualitatively", it is impossible.

    Numbers and data, the world is run by both. We can either be on the same boat as the rest of the world or keep relying on our "intuitions" and "eye for talent" which will inevitably dig us a deeper hole than we are currently in.

    Qualitative thinking is what prevented Fawad Alam's test career from taking off.

    You only rely on qualitative thinking when there are a number of options of the exact same or identical performances, where you can afford to pick which one you like for various reasons.

    A clear example is two batsmen in FC both about the age of 25 averaging 44.50, but bat with different hands. A team stocked with RA batsmen would take the leftie, not because of numerical reasons but logical, qualitative reasons.
    Mate based on quantitative thinking hammad azam and Sadaf Hussain should be opening the bowling and Khurram Manzoor should be first choice batter. Every team uses a combination of both quant and qual. You need qualitative data to contextualize stats, nothing wrong with that

  39. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    Results matter.

    Keep things simple. If coaches were asked to highlight players they improved, no team would want to ever get rid of their head coach.

    Life is about results. You can make up excuses about how batsman A scored more 50s under a coach's tenure, or you can look at the facts and see that the team is slowly and gradually slipping from the rankings.

    Statistics and data govern the world. You cannot judge a coach's tenure "qualitatively", it is impossible.

    Numbers and data, the world is run by both. We can either be on the same boat as the rest of the world or keep relying on our "intuitions" and "eye for talent" which will inevitably dig us a deeper hole than we are currently in.

    Qualitative thinking is what prevented Fawad Alam's test career from taking off.

    You only rely on qualitative thinking when there are a number of options of the exact same or identical performances, where you can afford to pick which one you like for various reasons.

    A clear example is two batsmen in FC both about the age of 25 averaging 44.50, but bat with different hands. A team stocked with RA batsmen would take the leftie, not because of numerical reasons but logical, qualitative reasons.
    Results matter but poor coaches can get good results. If you put me in charge of Ind, and Ind remain as a top side does that make me a good coach. Off course it doesn't.

  40. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by zarak View Post
    Mate based on quantitative thinking hammad azam and Sadaf Hussain should be opening the bowling and Khurram Manzoor should be first choice batter. Every team uses a combination of both quant and qual. You need qualitative data to contextualize stats, nothing wrong with that
    If the management and selection committee uses quantitative thinking to its maximum potential, I see no reason why both cannot get a few opportunities with the current team setup.

    Qualitative thinking is good when kept to a limit such as the example I gave above. Personal biases cannot cloud judgement to a large extent.

  41. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Results matter but poor coaches can get good results. If you put me in charge of Ind, and Ind remain as a top side does that make me a good coach. Off course it doesn't.
    No.

    Professional boards do not let coaches rest on their haunches.

    If you think Ravi Shastri sleeping and drinking beer whilst India continues to batter a South African side means that he plays no role in the team management, you would be wrong.

    I haven't paid very close attention to India's selection policy, but I do know that under Shastri's tenure, a lot more youngsters are being seen across a variety of formats.

    A poor coach does not survive long in a professional coaching setup. It is just a baseless theory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    No.

    Professional boards do not let coaches rest on their haunches.

    If you think Ravi Shastri sleeping and drinking beer whilst India continues to batter a South African side means that he plays no role in the team management, you would be wrong.

    I haven't paid very close attention to India's selection policy, but I do know that under Shastri's tenure, a lot more youngsters are being seen across a variety of formats.

    A poor coach does not survive long in a professional coaching setup. It is just a baseless theory.
    Each Sport different, and I agree that they judge by results. But if you look at PK and what it needs, the coach will make no tangible difference because our game revolves Babar, Riz and maybe SSA. If Andy Flower can't improve our other players then why pay 1000s of $.
    As far as Shastri is concerned look at the Ind test ages and you will see what I mean.

  43. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justcrazy View Post
    I heard Salman Butt say that PCB is in talks with Peter Moores. He does not look like a right choice for country like Pakistan.
    Interesting. Peter Moores is really highly rated in English cricket with a good record in terms performances and player development at different levels. He was the man who supposedly laid or tried to lay the foundations of the Eng whiteball setup, unfortunately the results didnÂ’t come in during his time.

    He was the one under whom Morgan became captain, Alex Hales debuted and gave much more opportunities to Moen Ali, Chris Woakes, Buttler and Stokes who at that point of time were still developing. Further in his last match as Head Coach Adil Rashid who was forgotten for 6 years after debut in 2009 came back, debuted Jason Roy, Mark Wood and David Willey in that same last match vs Ireland after which he was sacked.

    Many players were unhappy with his sacking and he is still rated highly by many including James Anderson. He was the one under whom Stuart Broad debuted as well and Anderson started getting regular opportunities.

    Moores first tenure with Eng team from 2007 to 09 ended with a conflict with Pietorson (I am a fan but, he wasnt an easy player to handle for many) and in his second tenure he was brought in almost just an year before the 2015 WC and then removed soon afterwards.

    He is rated in cricket circles for his understanding of the game. So if he is considered it will have the potential to be a good decision.
    Last edited by Titan24; 31st August 2021 at 02:15.

  44. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    Interesting. Peter Moores is really highly rated in English cricket with a good record in terms performances and player development at different levels. He was the man who supposedly laid or tried to lay the foundations of the Eng whiteball setup, unfortunately the results didnÂ’t come in during his time.

    He was the one under whom Morgan became captain, Alex Hales debuted and gave much more opportunities to Moen Ali, Chris Woakes, Buttler and Stokes who at that point of time were still developing. Further in his last match as Head Coach Adil Rashid who was forgotten for 6 years after debut in 2009 came back, debuted Jason Roy, Mark Wood and David Willey in that same last match vs Ireland after which he was sacked.

    Many players were unhappy with his sacking and he is still rated highly by many including James Anderson. He was the one under whom Stuart Broad debuted as well and Anderson started getting regular opportunities.

    Moores first tenure with Eng team from 2007 to 09 ended with a conflict with Pietorson (I am a fan but, he wasnt an easy player to handle for many) and in his second tenure he was brought in almost just an year before the 2015 WC and then removed soon afterwards.

    He is rated in cricket circles for his understanding of the game. So if he is considered it will have the potential to be a good decision.
    We need coaches that develop our players cricketing and mental faculties. If we expect someone to come in and wave a magic wand we will only see disappointment.

  45. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    We need coaches that develop our players cricketing and mental faculties. If we expect someone to come in and wave a magic wand we will only see disappointment.
    Agreed. However, for that we need to develop our local coaches or at max can invite established international coaches for camps as hiring multiple top coaches on full time roles for player development at lower level would be really difficult for any board.

    I have created threads and discussed previously as well that to have a strong system you should not only focus on players rather developing coaches as well. Its only with capable coaches (After you have established a basic grass root structure) that you can have a sustainable system which can identify and develop players correctly from the very young age. I think this side of the things has somewhat progressed but, more has to be put in and then only after some years the system will be able to breathe on its own.

    In the meantime to extract the best from what already is there you need a basic direction to move your cricket towards and National team setup is important due to the message it sends to the regional coaches and players under radar is really impressive.
    Last edited by Titan24; 31st August 2021 at 03:54.

  46. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Each Sport different, and I agree that they judge by results. But if you look at PK and what it needs, the coach will make no tangible difference because our game revolves Babar, Riz and maybe SSA. If Andy Flower can't improve our other players then why pay 1000s of $.
    As far as Shastri is concerned look at the Ind test ages and you will see what I mean.
    Your theory is based on "if".

    How do you know that Andy Flower won't improve our players?

    He was one of the first coaches to institutionalize data driver planning and management, whereas our team focuses on waiting for someone to stand up.

    Under Andy Flower, England became largely successful and those results speak volumes of his expertise.

    MS under Andy Flower won the PSL, and it was clear that they had specific tactics and plans each game they played.

    So yes, I think that it is worth bringing Andy Flower in because his credentials with teams are far greater than those of the coaches we have currently. His selection and understanding of team balance is something which should be appreciated.

  47. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    Your theory is based on "if".

    How do you know that Andy Flower won't improve our players?

    He was one of the first coaches to institutionalize data driver planning and management, whereas our team focuses on waiting for someone to stand up.

    Under Andy Flower, England became largely successful and those results speak volumes of his expertise.

    MS under Andy Flower won the PSL, and it was clear that they had specific tactics and plans each game they played.

    So yes, I think that it is worth bringing Andy Flower in because his credentials with teams are far greater than those of the coaches we have currently. His selection and understanding of team balance is something which should be appreciated.
    I don't accept that Andy Flower or any of thse coaches will make much of a difference. Our success or failure will depend on Babar and Riz. Just look at England and Morgan. The whole coaches thing is a scam. If a Captain needs a mentor then give him a mentor. What we need is more talented selectors, more talent scouts, more quality pitches to play more quality games.

  48. #47
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    If PCB really running low on funds, they should sack Misbah, Waqar and Majed immediately. These so-called wanna be coaches are waste of money. There will not be any difference if they are not with the team.

  49. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    I don't accept that Andy Flower or any of thse coaches will make much of a difference. Our success or failure will depend on Babar and Riz. Just look at England and Morgan. The whole coaches thing is a scam. If a Captain needs a mentor then give him a mentor. What we need is more talented selectors, more talent scouts, more quality pitches to play more quality games.
    I would rather believe the words of hundreds of players who talk about their coaches having a positive impact on their careers.

    I agree with what you've said about selectors and scouts, but good coaches are a must.

  50. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    I would rather believe the words of hundreds of players who talk about their coaches having a positive impact on their careers.

    I agree with what you've said about selectors and scouts, but good coaches are a must.
    The great Windies team had no coach, they had Clive, PK under IK had Inti but he was more of a manager than a coach. John Buchanan made no difference to Australia, they had good players and a good Captain. Good captains make good teams, no doubt young Capts need mentors for guidance but the whole coaches thing is a scam

  51. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    The great Windies team had no coach, they had Clive, PK under IK had Inti but he was more of a manager than a coach. John Buchanan made no difference to Australia, they had good players and a good Captain. Good captains make good teams, no doubt young Capts need mentors for guidance but the whole coaches thing is a scam
    Is Pakistan a good team at the moment?

    Bring up examples of bad teams who succeeded without coaches, I promise you, there are none.

    If Pakistan is winning WC after WC after WC, then I'll say we are wasting money on coaches.

    Right now, we could lose a series against Zimbabwe if our team plays like the clowns they usually are.

  52. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by UzmanBeast View Post
    Is Pakistan a good team at the moment?

    Bring up examples of bad teams who succeeded without coaches, I promise you, there are none.

    If Pakistan is winning WC after WC after WC, then I'll say we are wasting money on coaches.

    Right now, we could lose a series against Zimbabwe if our team plays like the clowns they usually are.
    Finally you understand my point,bad teams have bad players. Put the greatest ever coach you know in charge of Zimbabwe, will they be any better because based on your theory they should become much better. Put Ravi in charge of Ireland, surely they will become World beaters because he is the coach of a top team.
    I am believer in talent spotters, good selectors and good captains. The modern concept of coaches is an absolute scam

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    If they want to save money they should appoint Pak coaches.

    Many would be surprised to see the performance under Saqlain and Razzaq

    Just wait and watch.
    Last edited by ask_analyse_act; 6th September 2021 at 19:59.


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