BlackCaps abandon tour to Pakistan following a New Zealand government security alert - Page 11


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  1. #801
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Alex View Post
    So basically BCCI funds 45 percent of PCB's budget - for nothing in return. Wow.
    This is why I find the idea of Pakistani cricketers not being allowed to earn IPL money a poor excuse.

    Effectively, half of our money comes from India as it is!

  2. #802
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    This is why I find the idea of Pakistani cricketers not being allowed to earn IPL money a poor excuse.

    Effectively, half of our money comes from India as it is!
    Yeah that information has led me to have newfound respect for BCCI. For all the political shenanigans, they haven't curtailed funding flowing to Pakistan.

    And actually it puts PCB in even more bad light. They resort to cry conspiracy and crying victim that BCCI /India is behind everything that happens to them. Talk about biting the hands that feed!

  3. #803
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Alex View Post
    So basically BCCI funds 45 percent of PCB's budget - for nothing in return. Wow.
    The BCCI generates 90% of ICC's income. It is the ICC which decides how the funds are allocated to the ICC members. The BCCI cannot dictate to the ICC how to allocate those funds or to eliminate funding altogether. The BCCI after the Pulvama attack lobbied very hard to get Pakistan banned from International Cricket citing that countries which sponsor terrorism should not be allowed to participate in international cricket but the ICC said to keep politics seperate from Cricket. The BCCI tried to get the Kashmir Premier League Banned via the ICC and the ICC again told the BCCI they can't do anything.

    Had it been really up to the BCCI, they would have ensured the ICC gives Zero Funding to the PCB. The BCCI has already done whatever it can to financially strangle the PCB in the last 13-14 years.

  4. #804
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    The BCCI generates 90% of ICC's income. It is the ICC which decides how the funds are allocated to the ICC members. The BCCI cannot dictate to the ICC how to allocate those funds or to eliminate funding altogether. The BCCI after the Pulvama attack lobbied very hard to get Pakistan banned from International Cricket citing that countries which sponsor terrorism should not be allowed to participate in international cricket but the ICC said to keep politics seperate from Cricket. The BCCI tried to get the Kashmir Premier League Banned via the ICC and the ICC again told the BCCI they can't do anything.

    Had it been really up to the BCCI, they would have ensured the ICC gives Zero Funding to the PCB. The BCCI has already done whatever it can to financially strangle the PCB in the last 13-14 years.
    Yes, none of the above changes the raw fact that BCCI funds 45 percent of Pak cricket.

    And disagree with the second part. If they really wanted, they could easily have manipulated ICC to stop funding PCB out of BCCIs citing political issues, if they really wanted to. Credit to them they haven't. Controlling 90 per cent of revenue of anything is as equivalent as controlling that entity fully. Basically ICC for all purposes can be construed as BCCi's subsidiary.

  5. #805
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    This is why I find the idea of Pakistani cricketers not being allowed to earn IPL money a poor excuse.

    Effectively, half of our money comes from India as it is!
    Why should Ind let any PK play? I find it galling that some PKs are desperate for PK players to play in the IPL. Brother self respect is more important than money

  6. #806
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Why should Ind let any PK play? I find it galling that some PKs are desperate for PK players to play in the IPL. Brother self respect is more important than money
    But social exclusion isn’t good for Pakistan nor it’s cricket fans. Pakistanis should not have to feel excluded from everything for no reason.

  7. #807
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    But social exclusion isn’t good for Pakistan nor it’s cricket fans. Pakistanis should not have to feel excluded from everything for no reason.
    But if they don't want you, stop begging.

  8. #808
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    But if they don't want you, stop begging.
    No one is begging. We are just calling out the reasoning.

    According to the likes of Joshila, Pakistanis should not earn Indian money with which they will pay tax to their country which then funds insurgent attacks in Kashmir through ISI.

    But then we are also earning half of our money from India?!

  9. #809
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    ISLAMABAD: Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) Chairman Ramiz Raja announced on Thursday that the New Zealand cricket team has agreed to tour Pakistan.

    Briefing the Senate Standing Committee on Inter-Provincial Coordination (IPC), the PCB chairman said that the Black Caps were working on a timeline for the series, and assured the lawmakers that he would announce the good news next week.

    Raja claimed that the International Cricket Council President Greg Barclay 99 per cent agreed with the PCB’s stance over New Zealand’s sudden departure from Pakistan.

    On September 17, New Zealand had abruptly announced that they would be abandoning their tour to Pakistan, moments before the first one-day match in Rawalpindi, citing security concerns. Following New Zealand’s action, England had also withdrawn from their four-day tour to Pakistan.

    Commenting on the departure, Ramiz said it was not the way the game can go on.

    “We have a history of cricket. This cannot happen that someone comes, reaps his benefit and then throws us in the trash,” deplored the PCB chief.

    https://www.bolnews.com/latest/2021/...ys-ramiz-raja/


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  10. #810
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Alex View Post
    Yeah that information has led me to have newfound respect for BCCI. For all the political shenanigans, they haven't curtailed funding flowing to Pakistan.

    And actually it puts PCB in even more bad light. They resort to cry conspiracy and crying victim that BCCI /India is behind everything that happens to them. Talk about biting the hands that feed!
    Wow the thinking here is so delusional.
    So PCB should be praising India despite them being the ones who want to hold no cricket relations? The hands that feed? India should learn how to feed itself before talking about feeding others

  11. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    No one is begging. We are just calling out the reasoning.

    According to the likes of Joshila, Pakistanis should not earn Indian money with which they will pay tax to their country which then funds insurgent attacks in Kashmir through ISI.

    But then we are also earning half of our money from India?!
    Any PK calling for PKs in the IPL is begging. Its their tournament and they can do what they want. To me Joshila is the type of Hindutuva that has turned into a fascist paradise.

  12. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    ISLAMABAD: Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) Chairman Ramiz Raja announced on Thursday that the New Zealand cricket team has agreed to tour Pakistan.

    Briefing the Senate Standing Committee on Inter-Provincial Coordination (IPC), the PCB chairman said that the Black Caps were working on a timeline for the series, and assured the lawmakers that he would announce the good news next week.

    Raja claimed that the International Cricket Council President Greg Barclay 99 per cent agreed with the PCB’s stance over New Zealand’s sudden departure from Pakistan.

    On September 17, New Zealand had abruptly announced that they would be abandoning their tour to Pakistan, moments before the first one-day match in Rawalpindi, citing security concerns. Following New Zealand’s action, England had also withdrawn from their four-day tour to Pakistan.

    Commenting on the departure, Ramiz said it was not the way the game can go on.

    “We have a history of cricket. This cannot happen that someone comes, reaps his benefit and then throws us in the trash,” deplored the PCB chief.

    https://www.bolnews.com/latest/2021/...ys-ramiz-raja/
    How about Ramiz and PCB let NZCB announce this only.

    We are back to being nice and warm towards these countries who have never repaid our respect towards them.

    Let NZCB announce this, let them promote it as if it’s a tour to India or Bangladesh.

  13. #813
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Any PK calling for PKs in the IPL is begging. Its their tournament and they can do what they want. To me Joshila is the type of Hindutuva that has turned into a fascist paradise.
    It is futile to think Pakistan should not be included like all other countries. We made this mistake 100+ years ago when we didn’t think learning English would be beneficial for the wider growth of The Muslim identity. Pakistani players are earning well and enough without IPL, but they deserve equal platforms to perform with the best in the world and rub shoulders with them.

  14. #814
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    The BCCI generates 90% of ICC's income. It is the ICC which decides how the funds are allocated to the ICC members. The BCCI cannot dictate to the ICC how to allocate those funds or to eliminate funding altogether. The BCCI after the Pulvama attack lobbied very hard to get Pakistan banned from International Cricket citing that countries which sponsor terrorism should not be allowed to participate in international cricket but the ICC said to keep politics seperate from Cricket. The BCCI tried to get the Kashmir Premier League Banned via the ICC and the ICC again told the BCCI they can't do anything.

    Had it been really up to the BCCI, they would have ensured the ICC gives Zero Funding to the PCB. The BCCI has already done whatever it can to financially strangle the PCB in the last 13-14 years.
    This is not how joker Ramiz has put it though. Whose bright idea was to make him chairman?

  15. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babeikh View Post
    What happened to this great credible security threat?
    No information released thus far. Most likely it was a complete rubbish threat.

    Also, weren't NZ scheduled to tour in Nov 2022 anyway? So it doesn't seem like they are rescheduling the previous tour.
    Last edited by MenInG; 7th October 2021 at 22:46.

  16. #816
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsan17 View Post
    No information released thus far. Most likely it was a complete rubbish threat.

    Also, weren't NZ scheduled to tour in Nov 2022 anyway? So it doesn't seem like they are rescheduling the previous tour.
    I don't think they'll reschedule this large tour. I don't know what their schedule looks like though.
    Last edited by MenInG; 7th October 2021 at 22:47.

  17. #817
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    Martin Guptill has spent more time in the United Arab Emirates than he was expecting to this year, but he isn’t dwelling on the sequence of events that put him there ahead of schedule.

    The Black Caps batsman has been in Dubai along with four team-mates since mid-September, when their tour of Pakistan was abandoned on the morning of the first one-day international after a credible, direct threat was made to the team’s safety.

    “It was disappointing for everybody involved,” he said this week.

    NZ Cricket and the Pakistan Cricket Board are in discussions about rescheduling the tour, which was New Zealand’s first visit to the country in almost 18 years. Geo News, a Pakistan TV channel, quoted PCB chairman Ramiz Raja as suggesting November 2022 as a possibility earlier this week.

    In the week after the tour was abandoned, Pakistan information minister Fawad Chaudhry revealed that Guptill’s wife, broadcaster Laura McGoldrick, had received an emailed threat on his life prior to the tour.

    The death threat, which was similar to those made to other players, was deemed not credible and was unrelated to the security threat that ultimately forced NZ Cricket to pull out of the tour. For his part, Guptill appeared unfazed by it.

    “We sent it on to the right people to deal with it,” he said.

    “Obviously nothing came of it. It is what it is, and we just had to go through the right channels to get it dealt with properly.”

    “Laura never actually told me what the email said,” he added, “so I had no idea what was going on”.

    When the Pakistan tour was abandoned, Guptill and the other T20 World Cup squad members present were yet to link up with their team-mates who had come from Bangladesh, as they were still completing a period of Covid-19 quarantine following their arrival.

    The word came down at lunchtime on Friday, September 17 that the tour was off and within 48 hours all the players and staff had left Islamabad, Pakistan’s capital, for Dubai in the UAE, with the vast majority of them then heading home to New Zealand.

    For Guptill – and Todd Astle, Mark Chapman, Daryl Mitchell and Ish Sodhi – that wasn’t a feasible option, as they would have had to turn around almost immediately after completing 14 days in a managed isolation hotel to return to the UAE, where the bulk of the World Cup is being played.

    For the best part of the last three weeks, they’ve been training in Dubai, but are now in the process of joining the Black Caps’ bio-secure bubble for the tournament, which starts next weekend, with an opening round of matches featuring eight teams looking to earn the four remaining spots in the Super 12.

    The Black Caps are already in the Super 12 and begin their campaign against Pakistan on October 26 [3am October 27 NZ time] before playing India, two of the teams yet to qualify, and Afghanistan as they chase a place in the semifinals, at a tournament they have never won.

    Guptill has already been in the UAE once this year, playing in the Pakistan Super League T20 competition, which was completed there in June. He wasn’t involved when it started in Pakistan in February, while the Black Caps’ home summer was ongoing, but signed on when it was delayed and shifted following a surge in Covid-19 cases.

    He is set to remain in the UAE through to mid-November, with the World Cup final scheduled for the 14th, and is then set to head to India, for a three-match T20 series, before returning home in early December.

    It has been six months since his last outing for the Black Caps, a series of T20s against Bangladesh that ended in Auckland in early April, and four months since his last cricket match altogether, in the PSL.

    He said he was looking forward to facing Pakistan in three weeks’ time, six weeks after his arrival in the UAE.

    “They're a tough opponent and in these conditions it's going to be pretty tough again.

    “We're going to have to be on our A-game and bring it to them and not take a backward step, just like every other game that we play.”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricke...-pakistan-soon
    Last edited by MenInG; 8th October 2021 at 22:31.


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  18. #818
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    It will be quite pathetic if the rescheduled date is Nov 2022. They were already scheduled to tour in Nov 2022. It better contain more games than originally planned if that ends up being the date.

  19. #819
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    So what happened regarding that threat? Any news? If England government still said Pakistan is safe to tour, and now NZ are considering touring Pakistan again, it makes that threat sound kind of fake.

  20. #820
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyWarsFan View Post
    So what happened regarding that threat? Any news? If England government still said Pakistan is safe to tour, and now NZ are considering touring Pakistan again, it makes that threat sound kind of fake.
    Not a whisper. Given that England would have had access to the same intelligence and yet their government was OK with the tour, it's obvious NZ fell for a hoax or there was something else at play that was not security related.

  21. #821
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsan17 View Post
    It will be quite pathetic if the rescheduled date is Nov 2022. They were already scheduled to tour in Nov 2022. It better contain more games than originally planned if that ends up being the date.
    Its all a scam.

    Pakistan has no real supporters in world cricket except for SL.

  22. #822
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsan17 View Post
    Not a whisper. Given that England would have had access to the same intelligence and yet their government was OK with the tour, it's obvious NZ fell for a hoax or there was something else at play that was not security related.
    I think Ramiz already explained it in one of his interviews - that the threshold the New Zealand government uses to define a threat as 'credible' is very low compared to other governments, even the UK. So I guess it might have been defined as a 'credible' threat by the New Zealand government but not by the UK government.

    That doesn't of course explain why they are suddenly rescheduling the tour unless further assessment has found the threat is not credible.

  23. #823
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    I hope PCB don't act desperate to please NZ. If they cancelled the tour without any proper explanation and damaged Pakistan cricket's reputation, what make PCB to sure of themselves that they will not do it again?

  24. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babeikh View Post
    I think Ramiz already explained it in one of his interviews - that the threshold the New Zealand government uses to define a threat as 'credible' is very low compared to other governments, even the UK. So I guess it might have been defined as a 'credible' threat by the New Zealand government but not by the UK government.

    That doesn't of course explain why they are suddenly rescheduling the tour unless further assessment has found the threat is not credible.
    What Ramiz is saying is plausible. Perhaps the fact that NZ doesn't have much of a serious intelligence service of its own, it's not able to investigate threats as quickly and as robustly as others. I am giving NZ a lot of slack here though, as that still doesn't justify what they did. With each passing day where they stay quiet, it becomes less and less believable that the threat was credible.

  25. #825
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shafi View Post
    I hope PCB don't act desperate to please NZ. If they cancelled the tour without any proper explanation and damaged Pakistan cricket's reputation, what make PCB to sure of themselves that they will not do it again?
    yes exactly - there is no trust, is there? The precedent they have set is that if they don't fancy it they can just leave any time they feel like it and without any actual explanation - just say oh we had a threat but we aren't sharing it with you - and by bye.

    So absolutely I think Pakistan should not arrange any tours with Aus, Eng or NZ.

  26. #826
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shafi View Post
    I hope PCB don't act desperate to please NZ. If they cancelled the tour without any proper explanation and damaged Pakistan cricket's reputation, what make PCB to sure of themselves that they will not do it again?
    They should be tough with them privately. Absolutely shambolic the stunt they pulled. It's surprising the talk has died on this - pressure must remain on these muppets to reveal the so-called threat. And yes, PCB must get contractual assurances in case these clowns pull similar stunts again.

  27. #827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babeikh View Post
    yes exactly - there is no trust, is there? The precedent they have set is that if they don't fancy it they can just leave any time they feel like it and without any actual explanation - just say oh we had a threat but we aren't sharing it with you - and by bye.

    So absolutely I think Pakistan should not arrange any tours with Aus, Eng or NZ.
    Australia and England can be given the benefit of the doubt, although England are a different case and the stunt they pulled was of a different type. PCB should get contractual assurances with England as well.

  28. #828
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsan17 View Post
    Australia and England can be given the benefit of the doubt, although England are a different case and the stunt they pulled was of a different type. PCB should get contractual assurances with England as well.
    Yeah but I mean personally I just don't trust them. Even if they tour I will expect them to pull out and go home at any second, even in the middle of a match / in the last over of a game etc.

  29. #829
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    Pakistan need to sit quiet on this for now, it’s not up to them to chase NZ or whoever.

    They need to act with some dignity but I wouldn’t trust the PCB on this matter.

  30. #830
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    Ian Smith rates New Zealand's chances in the ICC Men's T20 World Cup

    Cricket fans have had a bit of a rough ride of late with New Zealand abandoning its Pakistan tour because of security concerns. But things are looking up with the approach of the ICC Men’s T20 World Cup.

    New Zealand cricket legend Ian Smith says he’s eagerly anticipating seeing the two countries finally compete.

    “It’s a bit of a grudge match now on the basis that New Zealand pulled out of the tour over there just recently and came home, which didn’t please Pakistan at all,” he says.

    “We were right in doing what we did but it doesn’t ease the pain for them so there will be feeling in that game. It’s the first game that we play and I think there will be a real edge to that one so I’m looking forward to it.”

    Along with Laura McGoldrick, the seasoned broadcaster will be co-hosting Sky Sport’s review show of the T20 World Cup in Oman and the UAE, featuring reaction, previews and reviews of key games.

    Sixteen teams from around the globe will compete in the hopes of knocking defending champions the West Indies off the winner’s throne.

    Smith says that the T20 format has become fashionable in the cricket world.

    “And for that reason it’s really caught on globally and that’s why you’re going to have so many teams from qualifying regions.”
    Smith says T20 is not his preferred cup of cricketing tea but he is acquiring a taste for it.

    “It’s growing on me. I’m an old guy but it’s growing on me,” he says.

    “I’m a lover of test cricket, an absolute lover of test cricket, but in the job you just have to learn to be flexible.

    “And I realised that T20 cricket is probably the cricket of the future. There’s going to be more and more events, more and more leagues around the world. And players want to play in it because it’s extremely lucrative compared to the other forms.

    “It’s a real possibility that T20 cricket may well be a factor in the Olympics at some point. So these kind of events, and putting it more on the world stage and illustrating it to be a global sport, is quite important.”

    As someone who is now in the business of batting opinions rather than balls, Smith, who also hosts the nine to noon slot on sports radio station SENZ, says the Kiwi squad looks promising.

    “I think how we start, so Conway and Guptill at the top of the order, I think are hugely important for us. Williamson, quite clearly in any form of the game, is an absolute standout so I don’t have any qualms that if Kane Williamson has a good tournament then New Zealand will go pretty close.

    “On the bowling side of it, Southee, Boult and Jamieson have been simply outstanding for us in all forms of the game in the last 12 months or so.

    “But the heavy hitters around the world, the West Indies, will be very, very good. And the reason why is because they’ve won it before and they also specialise in T20 cricket.

    “Their players tend to follow the white ball around the world as opposed to the test arena, so they get very good.”

    The former wicket-keeper says you can’t talk about cricket without mentioning India, and Australia is “always dangerous” but he thinks that England is “in flux at the moment”.

    “I’m not quite sure what England’s team will finally end up looking like,” he says.
    Despite the risks associated with travelling amid a pandemic, Smith says he’d love to be in Oman and the United Arab Emirates, attending the T20 World Cup in person.

    “I’ve got a lot of great mates in the commentary team and every time we get together it’s a real hoot. We love it.

    “So I have a bit of FOMO (fear of missing out) there and also in my job, I like to talk about the big occasions. I love that so not being there I’ll miss it, but being able to sit back in the Sky Studio and review it is probably the next best option.”

    And he thinks it might be New Zealand’s time to lift this particular shiny trophy.

    “We haven’t won before and it’d be a fairytale if we did, but I wouldn’t be surprised.

    “We’ve got the best equipped squad in terms of all-round depth that we’ve ever had and I really do believe New Zealand has a right royal chance.”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainmen...-t20-world-cup

  31. #831
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    Unnecessary hype - don't think Pak players have anything against NZ players for it to be a grudge game.


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  32. #832
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    Now Pakistan Fan's are supporting Nz against Afghanistan. read the some post where posters say they will Never ever support NZ but but

  33. #833
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devadwal View Post
    Now Pakistan Fan's are supporting Nz against Afghanistan. read the some post where posters say they will Never ever support NZ but but
    whatever makes you happy

  34. #834
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devadwal View Post
    Now Pakistan Fan's are supporting Nz against Afghanistan. read the some post where posters say they will Never ever support NZ but but
    I would rather support New Zealand than India.

  35. #835
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    Strange story but guess something good out of that tour!

    ==

    A Timaru high school’s sporting memorabilia fundraiser for the Cancer Society has scored a jersey from a Black Cap selected for the 2021 cricket tour of Pakistan that never got under way.

    Roncalli College’s auction of bowler Hamish Bennett’s jersey is on TradeMe and is the last of a series the school has been running since August.

    The jersey was ready to be worn changing in the changing room when the tour was cancelled just before the first ball was bowled because of security concerns..


    Bennett, a Timaru Boys’ High School old boy, and a few of his teammates have signed the jersey.

    Hamish Bennett's official top from New Zealand's tour of Pakistan 2021, is on Trade Me and will be sold to the highest bidder as a part of Roncalli College's fundraiser.

    Roncalli College’s sport fundraiser organiser and deputy head boy Toby Scannell said the gear was left in the changing rooms when the tour was cancelled.

    “The jersey then took a couple of weeks to be sent back, and Hamish Bennett got it back.

    “At the same time, I had got in contact with Bennett to see if he would be able to provide me a signed jersey for our sports fundraiser.”

    As a part of the Roncalli College's sports fundraiser, a limited edition Otago rugby jersey made for the 2019 Ranfurly shield clash against Thames Valley was also on the cards.

    Bennett, although a product of across town TBHS, is an ex-Celtic player.

    “... when I mentioned Celtic and its connection to Roncalli, he was more than happy to help.

    “[Though] there are limited signatures on the jersey, there are some from other players who were on that tour.”

    Bennett told The Timaru Herald that he was supportive of the initiative and was happy to help the cause.

    “It was one of the kits from the Pakistan tour,” Bennett said.

    “The jersey has been signed by me, Tom Blundell, Rachin Ravindra, Ben Sears and Finn Allen.

    Hamish Bennett bowls for New Zealand in a T20 international against the West Indies at Eden Park, Auckland, on November 27, 2020.
    “Toby got hold of me for the fundraiser and I gave him the shirt.

    “This is a good initiative, and I’m more than happy to support... I might have not gone to Roncalli [College], but happy to help out my home town.”

    Bennett’s jersey is the final item up for grabs in the college’s sports memorabilia fundraiser that has been going since August.

    The officially signed jersey from the 2020-2021 women’s Super Smash winners Canterbury Magicians, was also up for grabs.
    “The head students have been doing the fundraisers this term for the Cancer Society,” Scannell said.

    “As we lost a student this year to cancer, and we wanted to do something for him to honour him, and we decided to do a huge fundraiser for the Cancer Society.

    “This consisted of many events, however Covid-19 ruined most but one that could go was the sports fundraiser.”

    Golfer Ryan Fox’s Olympic memorabilia in the form of Ryan Fox's golf gear which was used in the Olympic Games was auctioned to raise funds towards Roncalli College's sport fundraiser initiative towards the Cancer society. The officially Ryan Fox signed memorabilia included a golf cover, a Srixon glove, black cap and a golf ball.

    Apart from Bennett’s jersey, four other sports items went under the hammer – a special edition Otago rugby Ranfurly Shield jersey, Ryan Fox’s signed Olympic golf gear, a signed jersey from the Plunket shield 2020-21 winners Canterbury and a signed jersey from the Super Smash women’s 2020-21 winners Canterbury Magicians.

    “So the auctions end on Wednesday [Bennett’s jersey] morning and all of them were put up on Trade me,” Scannell said.

    “I messaged the sportspersons on Instagram and email, and they sent the jersey via post, and we send it to the winners via post.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-heral...cancer-society


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  36. #836
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    After the Black Caps abruptly cancelled their Pakistan tour, fans and officials were left reeling. Laura Walters looks at what government security agencies told NZ Cricket before, during and after the matches were dramatically abandoned.

    A Pakistan cricket tour 18 years in the making was called off after intelligence agencies received “specific and credible” information that terrorists were planning an attack against the scheduled matches, government documents reveal.

    About 8am on September 17, the Security Intelligence Service received information through its Five Eyes intelligence sharing network that there was “attack planning against the New Zealand Cricket team”.

    It was this information that led to the national cricket team calling off the tour and leaving Pakistan on a late-night chartered flight to Dubai.

    Three days later, Britain – also a member of Five Eyes – cancelled England's upcoming cricket tour to the South Asian country.

    The decision to abandon the tour ahead of the Black Caps’ first game in Pakistan in 18 years created diplomatic issues for both the Government and New Zealand Cricket.

    The cancellation of a high-profile sporting event – in itself a form of diplomacy – has the ability to impact a country’s international reputation.

    The incident led to a call between Jacinda Ardern and Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan, himself a star former cricketer.

    Pakistan’s Interior Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed said the threat was a conspiracy from another country, and “an attempt to damage our efforts for peace in the region”.

    At the time, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (MFAT) referred to a “specific and credible threat”, but government documents, obtained by Stuff under the Official Information Act, reveal the nature of that threat.

    Reporting reveals the Five Eyes network as the source of that threat information. This gives further justification to the team’s decision to leave.

    NZ Cricket Players’ Association chief executive Heath Mills said fans and officials were understandably upset at the decision to leave. The lack of publicly available details left an information vacuum, which fuelled frustration.

    Pakistan's Interior Minister Sheikh Rasheed Ahmed at a press conference after NZ abandoned its cricket tour of Pakistan over security concerns.

    Mills was happy to add context to the decision, saying it showed how committed New Zealand was to the tour.

    “Everyone in the cricket world feels very sorry for Pakistan,” Mills said.

    “We all need each other … the schedule and the programme work on a bilateral basis, where everyone helps each other.”

    He backed the initial decision to tour Pakistan, and the call to leave after the government obtained information about terror attack planning against the team.

    NZ Cricket refused to comment, referring Stuff to comments made at the time.

    Furthermore, the wording in government correspondence casts doubt over the decision to tour the country in the first place.

    Ahead of the tour, the MFAT noted the tour would progress “despite the [high] threat level”.

    The ministry explained to NZ Cricket that its current travel advice to Pakistan reflected the high threat level, and indicated that future terrorist acts were expected, including against Western targets.

    This information was provided to NZ Cricket’s trusted head of security in Pakistan, Reg Dickason, and the board.

    “I should be clear that decisions regarding the tour and team's travel were entirely a matter for New Zealand Cricket,” SIS Director-General Rebecca Kitteridge said.

    Mills said tour decisions did not solely rely on government security information.

    If NZ Cricket had confidence in the security plan, and ability to implement it, the tour would go ahead.

    These assessments and security plans were carried out ahead of every tour, but the security in Pakistan was particularly tight.

    Black Caps captain Tom Latham speaks about the team's departure from Pakistan following a security threat.
    New Zealand had not toured Pakistan since 2003, due to long-held security concerns after a 2002 suicide bomb attack outside their Karachi hotel, while in 2009, the Sri Lanka team's bus was attacked in Lahore.

    The security plan covered the airport, hotel, grounds and transit. There were full road closures when the players travelled, and their hotel was under military guard.

    Mills said the rhetoric that New Zealand never wanted to go to Pakistan was incorrect.

    At the time, former Black Caps all-rounder Grant Elliott said NZ Cricket owed angry Pakistan fans and officials transparency over how it came to the decision to abandon the tour.

    Elliott, who played in Pakistan’s domestic Twenty20 league, said Pakistan fans and officials were angry because they had been left in the dark.

    “I am not sure what happened in Pakistan, but as a player you always have to put your trust in the decision makers around player health and wellbeing,” Elliott told Stuff.

    At the time, former Black Caps all-rounder Grant Elliott said NZ Cricket owed angry Pakistan fans and officials an explanation of its decision to abandon the tour.
    SUPPLIED
    At the time, former Black Caps all-rounder Grant Elliott said NZ Cricket owed angry Pakistan fans and officials an explanation of its decision to abandon the tour.
    “I have been on many tours, which get checked around security levels by NZCPA and NZC. The players trust this process and there are pretty amazing levels of security that the players experience, so they can feel safe playing,” he said.

    After NZ Cricket called off the tour, players and management faced criticism and harassment online.

    Head of Pakistan Cricket Board Ramiz Raja tweeted: “Walking out of the tour by taking a unilateral approach on a security threat is very frustrating. Especially when it’s not shared!! Which world is NZ living in?? NZ will hear us at ICC”.


    Pakistan tour correspondence by Laura Walters

    Meanwhile, players were openly criticised by people at the hotel in Islamabad, and were approached by an armed member of the military.

    This is in addition to players receiving death threats and bomb threats over social media before the tour, and following the cancellation.

    NZ Cricket said the threats were assessed by security and intelligence experts, and were deemed not credible.

    There was increased anxiety and hesitancy among the players ahead of the tour, which led to additional safety briefings.

    While much of the specific security information was withheld from the documents obtained by Stuff, they did give a clearer picture of the correspondence between the Government and NZ Cricket ahead of the tour, and the steps taken to mitigate fallout after the threat was received.

    Ahead of the tour, the NZSIS Combined Threat Assessment Group (CTAG) carried out threat assessments and the Major Events Security Committee briefed NZ Cricket. The MFAT advice that New Zealanders should not travel to Pakistan was also reiterated.

    After the threat information was received on September 17, a watch group was gathered and a meeting was convened by the Officials' Committee for Domestic and External Security Coordination (ODESC).

    Meeting minutes showed government officials discussed possible threats to New Zealanders in Pakistan, threats to those attending games – should the tour continue – and potential domestic fallout.

    NZ Police highlighted the risk to New Zealand’s Pakistani community should the tour be cancelled, or if an attack were to happen.

    Police noted the ongoing sentiment following the September 3 LynnMall terror attack.

    Police also developed a contingency plan, which included “targeted reassurance patrolling and outreach”, should the tour continue.

    Meanwhile, MFAT said its travel advice was clear. However, it decided to reissue its advice, and update the Safe Travel website to include “sporting events” in the list of potential targets for terrorists.

    The players' association’s Mills said there was heightened interest in Pakistan, because the Black Caps hadn’t been here for so long.

    What the public didn’t see was that the same security processes were followed, no matter what country the team was travelling to.

    Sometimes this meant the Black Caps toured countries or cities with a high threat level, as long as everyone was confident in the security plan.

    Other times, there were last-minute venue changes, cancelled practices, or cities scrapped from the tour schedule.

    Mills said NZ Cricket tried really hard to make the tour happen.

    “And we were comfortable – we were there for five days. We were about to play a game that night.”

    The outcome left him with a “sense of sadness”.

    “It was absolutely the right thing to do, and we’d do it every day of the week. But you still feel for the people of Pakistan.

    “There’s lots of good people there who just want to get on with their lives and watch some cricket, so you just feel sad.”

    NZ Cricket said it would fulfil its tour obligations with Pakistan, as soon as possible.

    Timeline:

    21 July 2021: The Combined Threat Assessment Group (CTAG) provides a verbal threat assessment about New Zealand Cricket's Tour to Bangladesh and Pakistan to the Major Events Security Committee. MFAT later revealed the threat level was “high”.

    22 July: CTAG issues a threat assessment regarding the tour. The document includes an assessment of the threat from terrorism and violent protest in Bangladesh and Pakistan, as well as threat assessments specific to the proposed tour. The document was sent to a variety of organisations, both within NZSIS, and the wider national security sector, including MFAT and DPMC.

    5 August: CTAG and DPMC plan for a meeting with a NZ Cricket regarding the threat assessment.

    Pakistan announces the tour and schedule.

    6 August: CTAG emails DPMC to confirm that the planned meeting with the NZ Cricket employee is still going ahead on August 10.

    DPMC advises the NZ Cricket Board had not made a decision, and that the briefing from CTAG would help inform any decision.

    10 August: Representatives of CTAG, MFAT and DPMC meet with the NZ Cricket.

    12 September: Black Caps arrive in Pakistan for their first tour in 18 years.

    17 September, 8.28am: CTAG identifies new intelligence reporting (received in CTAG holdings at approximately 8am) regarding a specific and credible threat against the cricket matches between Pakistan and New Zealand.

    17 September, 9am: MFAT are advised that CTAG would be issuing a threat warning related to the tour, and that the threat level was being moved upwards.

    17 September, 9.14am: CTAG issues threat warning regarding attack planning against the New Zealand cricket team.

    17 September, evening: Black Caps call off the tour on Friday evening, just minutes before play was due to start.

    18 September: Black Caps fly out of Pakistan on charter flight to Dubai, late on September 18, arriving on the morning of September 19.

    19 September: NZSIS communications team liaises with DPMC and MFAT regarding media enquiries about the tour.

    20 September: CTAG issues a threat insight on potential threats from the cancellation of New Zealand Cricket's tour of Pakistan.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricke...nst-black-caps


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  37. #837
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  38. #838
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    They are keeping things secret most likely because the threat was found to be bogus. Their intelligence came from five eyes, which England is a part of. England government did not have an issue touring Pakistan, meaning they did not think this so called threat was credible.

    A complete and utter bunch of clowns NZ are. I really hope they get to pay for their shenanigans. I am surprised people on this forum have largely forgotten about the stunt NZ pulled off.

  39. #839
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsan17 View Post
    They are keeping things secret most likely because the threat was found to be bogus. Their intelligence came from five eyes, which England is a part of. England government did not have an issue touring Pakistan, meaning they did not think this so called threat was credible.

    A complete and utter bunch of clowns NZ are. I really hope they get to pay for their shenanigans. I am surprised people on this forum have largely forgotten about the stunt NZ pulled off.
    nope.

    How can it be bogus? Intelligence agencies are not some joke that they make decisions on the basis of gut feelings. The reason why things were kept secret is because the operatives of foreign intelligence agency would had been exposed, and whether we like it or not but foreign countries would save their own intelligence operatives in a foreign country rather than save the public.

    Plus the fact that England also pulled out it seems there was maybe something.

    Pakistan at the end of the day got the benefit of it. If an attack had taken place, we could have had cricket been banned for another 20 years.

    Atleast by having this ambiguity we can still claim we are safe. But intelligence reports cannot be overlooked after the 2009 event.


    Pompei is an example of Liberalism gone mad- Technics1210

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  40. #840
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    Meanwhile, players were openly criticised by people at the hotel in Islamabad, and were approached by an armed member of the military.

    This is in addition to players receiving death threats and bomb threats over social media before the tour, and following the cancellation
    Wow, why were the milltary men even allowed to talk to the players and give their opinion. This is pathetic and should be investigated. They should quietly do their duty instead of giving opinions on the players


    Pompei is an example of Liberalism gone mad- Technics1210

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  41. #841
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post

    Pakistan at the end of the day got the benefit of it. If an attack had taken place, we could have had cricket been banned for another 20 years.
    .
    Not a good mindset. No attack would have taken place on NZ team.

    They were given more damn army than they can ever dream of having in their own country.

  42. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    Not a good mindset. No attack would have taken place on NZ team.

    They were given more damn army than they can ever dream of having in their own country.
    and how can you say that with surety?

    So what if the army was given. There own country doesnt need to have that amount of army because its deemed a safe country to live in. Pakistan is not deemed to be safe which is why every tour that takes place here is provided a highly militarize entourage.

    If NZ was getting intelligence reports from its own intelligence provider than they would obviously have to trust them more.

    If an attack did took place, yes the army entourage would had protected them by fighting the attacks off, but the problem is why an attack would had been taken the first place.

    If the intelligence report was correct, than Pakistan dodged a HUGE bullet here.

    Its just a case of what we say vs what they say but only one side is true.


    Pompei is an example of Liberalism gone mad- Technics1210

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  43. #843
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    nope.

    How can it be bogus? Intelligence agencies are not some joke that they make decisions on the basis of gut feelings. The reason why things were kept secret is because the operatives of foreign intelligence agency would had been exposed, and whether we like it or not but foreign countries would save their own intelligence operatives in a foreign country rather than save the public.

    Plus the fact that England also pulled out it seems there was maybe something.


    Not sure you read my post clearly. I will quote the relevant part, pertaining to England the intelligence likely being bogus:


    Quote Originally Posted by ahsan17 View Post
    Their intelligence came from five eyes, which England is a part of. England government did not have an issue touring Pakistan, meaning they did not think this so called threat was credible.

    Pakistan at the end of the day got the benefit of it. If an attack had taken place, we could have had cricket been banned for another 20 years.

    Atleast by having this ambiguity we can still claim we are safe. But intelligence reports cannot be overlooked after the 2009 event.
    Yes, whoever treats Pakistan like crap does it favour. Same stuff over and over again by boot lickers.

  44. #844
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    and how can you say that with surety?

    So what if the army was given. There own country doesnt need to have that amount of army because its deemed a safe country to live in. Pakistan is not deemed to be safe which is why every tour that takes place here is provided a highly militarize entourage.

    If NZ was getting intelligence reports from its own intelligence provider than they would obviously have to trust them more.

    If an attack did took place, yes the army entourage would had protected them by fighting the attacks off, but the problem is why an attack would had been taken the first place.

    If the intelligence report was correct, than Pakistan dodged a HUGE bullet here.

    Its just a case of what we say vs what they say but only one side is true.
    It seems you have forgotten some key details of the incident, such as that the intelligence came from five eyes, and that England did not withdraw due to security reasons, and the UK government was not involved in calling off the England your.

  45. #845
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    The evidence points to it being a hoax or a non serious threat but they might not have known that at the time they called off the tour.

    My issue was primarily with the way they withdrew rather than the withdrawl itself.

  46. #846
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babeikh View Post
    The evidence points to it being a hoax or a non serious threat but they might not have known that at the time they called off the tour.

    My issue was primarily with the way they withdrew rather than the withdrawl itself.
    Pakistan should ask for an apology from that joker board and it's government. If Pakistan did something similar in reverse in a similar situation, you can bet NZers would be far more mad. They shouldn't be getting away like this.

  47. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsan17 View Post
    It seems you have forgotten some key details of the incident, such as that the intelligence came from five eyes, and that England did not withdraw due to security reasons, and the UK government was not involved in calling off the England your.
    England withdrew due to security reasons. To soften the blow on Pakistan and to keep the reputation of the country being safe intact, they gave the reason of Covid restriction. EVeryone knows that was ** because the same players went to UAE to play ipl under the same covid restrictions.

    England, as they are part of 5 eyes, withdraw from the series based on that report.


    Pompei is an example of Liberalism gone mad- Technics1210

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  48. #848
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsan17 View Post
    Pakistan should ask for an apology from that joker board and it's government. If Pakistan did something similar in reverse in a similar situation, you can bet NZers would be far more mad. They shouldn't be getting away like this.
    Why should NZ board or govt apologized? We are sorry that we decided to protect our own people instead of taking the risk of going to the ground and play iin your unsafe country where terrorist attacks have taken place, where in 2009 a team was attacked and the fact that we have intelligence report coming that we could be attacked.

    Pakistan cannot even think about doing something similar because one thing New Zealand is a safe country. When the pakistani bus goes to the ground it deosnt need NZ army to protect the team bus as its safe. Second, Pakistan would need credible intelligence report if they were to call of a game.


    Pompei is an example of Liberalism gone mad- Technics1210

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  49. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    England withdrew due to security reasons. To soften the blow on Pakistan and to keep the reputation of the country being safe intact, they gave the reason of Covid restriction. EVeryone knows that was ** because the same players went to UAE to play ipl under the same covid restrictions.

    England, as they are part of 5 eyes, withdraw from the series based on that report.
    Ok so you have your own speculation based on nothing. Their government actually told them nothing about withdrawing from the tour, it was entirely done by the board. So your speculation about withdrawing based on the 5 eyes report is incorrect, since that would have had to come from their government.

  50. #850
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsan17 View Post
    Ok so you have your own speculation based on nothing. Their government actually told them nothing about withdrawing from the tour, it was entirely done by the board. So your speculation about withdrawing based on the 5 eyes report is incorrect, since that would have had to come from their government.
    how is it speculation? UK gets its intelligence by the same group and because it was creadible not 1 but 2 teams decided not to play in Pakistan based on that report.

    If you want to believe covid regulations was the reason, than again, same players went to UAE to live under the same quarantine rules


    Pompei is an example of Liberalism gone mad- Technics1210

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  51. #851
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    Why should NZ board or govt apologized? We are sorry that we decided to protect our own people instead of taking the risk of going to the ground and play iin your unsafe country where terrorist attacks have taken place, where in 2009 a team was attacked and the fact that we have intelligence report coming that we could be attacked.
    Because they abandoned the tour on a hoax and did.it in the worst possible manner. Rest of your points are irrelevant due to that.

    Pakistan cannot even think about doing something similar because one thing New Zealand is a safe country. When the pakistani bus goes to the ground it deosnt need NZ army to protect the team bus as its safe. Second, Pakistan would need credible intelligence report if they were to call of a game.
    It's obviously a hypothetical. As for the credible intelligence part, no they literally do not. They can just say they have credible intelligence and call of the series, even if they do not have credible intelligence. That's what NZ did. They still haven't shared even tiny details of the so called intelligence 3 months later.

  52. #852
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    Not true. UK government security advice for Pakistan did not change.

  53. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    how is it speculation? UK gets its intelligence by the same group and because it was creadible not 1 but 2 teams decided not to play in Pakistan based on that report.

    If you want to believe covid regulations was the reason, than again, same players went to UAE to live under the same quarantine rules
    Are you able to comprehend the part that UK government did not tell ECB to call off the tour? Once you comprehend that everything falls into place.

  54. #854
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsan17 View Post
    Because they abandoned the tour on a hoax and did.it in the worst possible manner. Rest of your points are irrelevant due to that.



    It's obviously a hypothetical. As for the credible intelligence part, no they literally do not. They can just say they have credible intelligence and call of the series, even if they do not have credible intelligence. That's what NZ did. They still haven't shared even tiny details of the so called intelligence 3 months later.
    again how can you claim it to be hoax?

    You are saying you know better than the 5 eyes intelligence community based on being able to have a computer and keyboard?


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  55. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsan17 View Post
    Are you able to comprehend the part that UK government did not tell ECB to call off the tour? Once you comprehend that everything falls into place.
    Doesnt matter.

    They got the intelligence report and because ECB found it more credible they cancelled it.

    You can keep on believing on the well being reason.


    Pompei is an example of Liberalism gone mad- Technics1210

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  56. #856
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    again how can you claim it to be hoax?

    You are saying you know better than the 5 eyes intelligence community based on being able to have a computer and keyboard?
    Because England, another member of 5 eyes, did not consider the same threat credible and did not change their advice on Pakistan to the ECB. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...E1pXgpLFGFi_8P

  57. #857
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    Doesnt matter.

    They got the intelligence report and because ECB found it more credible they cancelled it.

    You can keep on believing on the well being reason.
    The most important part doesn't matter to you

    The rest of what you say is your own speculation and not backed by what UK government, UK media, and ECB itself has said. So you can keep believing what you want.

  58. #858
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsan17 View Post
    Because England, another member of 5 eyes, did not consider the same threat credible and did not change their advice on Pakistan to the ECB. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...E1pXgpLFGFi_8P
    and yet ecb followed upon the intelligence report.


    Pakistan cricket was done a big favor and we should be thankful that these tours got cancelled, or else any bad incident could had lead to our cricket being banned for another 10 years.


    Pompei is an example of Liberalism gone mad- Technics1210

    And we thought it was plate tectonics

  59. #859
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    and yet ecb followed upon the intelligence report.


    Pakistan cricket was done a big favor and we should be thankful that these tours got cancelled, or else any bad incident could had lead to our cricket being banned for another 10 years.
    Again, your own speculation, because UK government, UK media and ECB themselves contradict your claims.

    ECB wouldn't have access to the intelligence btw. UK government would and they didn't think it was serious.

  60. #860
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsan17 View Post
    The most important part doesn't matter to you

    The rest of what you say is your own speculation and not backed by what UK government, UK media, and ECB itself has said. So you can keep believing what you want.
    An intelligence report has more credibility. What you or I or the millions of Pakistanis crying about a western conspiracy have to say doesnt matter.

    Funny thing is while people are still crying over the cancelled tour, they dont seem to be bothered by the fact that intelligence officials of foreign countries seem to exist here and are able to derive better reports


    Pompei is an example of Liberalism gone mad- Technics1210

    And we thought it was plate tectonics

  61. #861
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    The ECB came grovelling to us and their CEO even resigned. The UK government did not advise against the tour. Indeed the official travel advice for Pakistan has remained the same.

    That suggests it was either a fake threat or it wasnt credible.

  62. #862
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    An intelligence report has more credibility. What you or I or the millions of Pakistanis crying about a western conspiracy have to say doesnt matter.

    Funny thing is while people are still crying over the cancelled tour, they dont seem to be bothered by the fact that intelligence officials of foreign countries seem to exist here and are able to derive better reports
    It doesn't have credibility when the 2nd most important member of 5 eyes doesn't think it's credible.

  63. #863
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babeikh View Post
    The ECB came grovelling to us and their CEO even resigned. The UK government did not advise against the tour. Indeed the official travel advice for Pakistan has remained the same.

    That suggests it was either a fake threat or it wasnt credible.
    The threat must be real, because it was based on western intelligence, because those are 100% true. The 10 people droned in Afghanistan around the same time based on western intelligence was based on 100% credible intelligence as well.

    Can't believe how naive some people are btw. The premise our friend is working with is that just because it's intelligence, it has to be true.
    Last edited by ahsan17; 4th December 2021 at 16:12.

  64. #864
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    Would you really blame the Kiwis for leaving on receiving a security threat after what happened yesterday..

    All it needs is one nutter to think attacking the Kiwis would avenge the Christchurch mosque shooting. And there more more than 50 nutters in the mob that lynched the poor Sri Lankan yesterday.

  65. #865
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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    Would you really blame the Kiwis for leaving on receiving a security threat after what happened yesterday..

    All it needs is one nutter to think attacking the Kiwis would avenge the Christchurch mosque shooting. And there more more than 50 nutters in the mob that lynched the poor Sri Lankan yesterday.
    Oh yeah a crazy mob would get through hundreds of armed personal and attack a cricket team?

    This is Pakistan armed personal, not Mumbai police

  66. #866
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    and how can you say that with surety?

    So what if the army was given. There own country doesnt need to have that amount of army because its deemed a safe country to live in. Pakistan is not deemed to be safe which is why every tour that takes place here is provided a highly militarize entourage.

    If NZ was getting intelligence reports from its own intelligence provider than they would obviously have to trust them more.

    If an attack did took place, yes the army entourage would had protected them by fighting the attacks off, but the problem is why an attack would had been taken the first place.

    If the intelligence report was correct, than Pakistan dodged a HUGE bullet here.

    Its just a case of what we say vs what they say but only one side is true.
    What surety there is that an attack would have taken place?

  67. #867
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    What surety there is that an attack would have taken place?
    there isn't, however if the intelligence agency that your country trust tells you that there is an intelligence report that say an attack might happen you are bound to listen to them.

    Thus, till this day the criticism that NZ board and its players got was ridiculous


    Pompei is an example of Liberalism gone mad- Technics1210

    And we thought it was plate tectonics

  68. #868
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Oh yeah a crazy mob would get through hundreds of armed personal and attack a cricket team?

    This is Pakistan armed personal, not Mumbai police
    The Kiwis left not because they felt the Pakistani armed forces cannot protect them.
    The withdrawal had nothing to do with the quality of the security given. It had to do with the possibility that there might be a threat or danger to their life.

  69. #869
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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    Would you really blame the Kiwis for leaving on receiving a security threat after what happened yesterday..

    All it needs is one nutter to think attacking the Kiwis would avenge the Christchurch mosque shooting. And there more more than 50 nutters in the mob that lynched the poor Sri Lankan yesterday.
    There are nutters everywhere. This is very poor reasoning and you are attempting to link two disparate incidents to make a false point.

    It is like saying the beef lynchers could attack the kiwis because there is a Mcdonalds in Christchurch.

  70. #870
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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    Would you really blame the Kiwis for leaving on receiving a security threat after what happened yesterday..

    All it needs is one nutter to think attacking the Kiwis would avenge the Christchurch mosque shooting. And there more more than 50 nutters in the mob that lynched the poor Sri Lankan yesterday.
    By that logic no one should visit India since lynching is so common in India.

  71. #871
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    nope.

    How can it be bogus? Intelligence agencies are not some joke that they make decisions on the basis of gut feelings. The reason why things were kept secret is because the operatives of foreign intelligence agency would had been exposed, and whether we like it or not but foreign countries would save their own intelligence operatives in a foreign country rather than save the public.

    Plus the fact that England also pulled out it seems there was maybe something.

    Pakistan at the end of the day got the benefit of it. If an attack had taken place, we could have had cricket been banned for another 20 years.

    Atleast by having this ambiguity we can still claim we are safe. But intelligence reports cannot be overlooked after the 2009 event.
    Give me a break. Intelligence agencies like the CIA have held innocent people in black sites based on gut feelings and shoddy intelligence. This was a massive intelligence failure (some fake email which some novice probably took seriously) which they are trying to cover up. Why did NZ agree to tour next year? They are embarrassed and want to make amends.

  72. #872
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    Quote Originally Posted by SM1989 View Post
    Give me a break. Intelligence agencies like the CIA have held innocent people in black sites based on gut feelings and shoddy intelligence. This was a massive intelligence failure (some fake email which some novice probably took seriously) which they are trying to cover up. Why did NZ agree to tour next year? They are embarrassed and want to make amends.
    Who said fake emails was the intelligence basis?

    Embarrassed about what?

    According to pakistani logic. Intelligencie agency are bogus, its a western conspiracy.

    2009 sri lanka attacks happened. Thats a fact. After that, every team will only to pakistan if they get intelligence clearance


    Pompei is an example of Liberalism gone mad- Technics1210

    And we thought it was plate tectonics

  73. #873
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khan_123 View Post
    By that logic no one should visit India since lynching is so common in India.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom View Post
    There are nutters everywhere. This is very poor reasoning and you are attempting to link two disparate incidents to make a false point.

    It is like saying the beef lynchers could attack the kiwis because there is a Mcdonalds in Christchurch.
    Is there any history of any sporting team being attacked in India? Pakistan has that history.

    Are UN sanctioned terrorists roaming around in India?

    India has repeatedly hosted international events without any issues, so no matter what pakistanis think, no one is going to hyphenate India with Pakistan.

    As unfortunate as the sudden withdrawal was, with the added humiliation of Imran not able to convince Ardem, pakistan's history does play its role.

  74. #874
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Is there any history of any sporting team being attacked in India? Pakistan has that history.

    Are UN sanctioned terrorists roaming around in India?

    India has repeatedly hosted international events without any issues, so no matter what pakistanis think, no one is going to hyphenate India with Pakistan.

    As unfortunate as the sudden withdrawal was, with the added humiliation of Imran not able to convince Ardem, pakistan's history does play its role.
    Don’t know about sporting team but a stadium was most certainly torched when India lost the 1996 semi final

    Don’t act like your country doesn’t have a higher share of Jaahils

  75. #875
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Is there any history of any sporting team being attacked in India? Pakistan has that history.

    Are UN sanctioned terrorists roaming around in India?

    India has repeatedly hosted international events without any issues, so no matter what pakistanis think, no one is going to hyphenate India with Pakistan.

    As unfortunate as the sudden withdrawal was, with the added humiliation of Imran not able to convince Ardem, pakistan's history does play its role.
    If someone says that kiwis were right to go because of the Sri Lankan team attacks I would entertain that theory.

    But trying to link random and tragic mob violence, with a cricket team leaving 2 months previously needs to be called out as rubbish.

    Please try to understand why posts are made before putting your superman costume on to defend India.

    We were merely calling out the posters flawed logic and were not saying that India should not hold international events.

  76. #876
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom View Post
    There are nutters everywhere. This is very poor reasoning and you are attempting to link two disparate incidents to make a false point.

    It is like saying the beef lynchers could attack the kiwis because there is a Mcdonalds in Christchurch.
    There is a difference between violence against fellow countrymen and foreigners. Morally, both are deplorable acts yes, but the difference is in how they'd be perceived by the outsider or tourist.

    You can visit any random country where there might be majoritarian violence against minorities and it wouldn't bother you as much because you're just visiting it as an outsider and you are not a part of that country. But when there is a perceptible threat for foreigners in the country, you start feeling the heat and immediately try to flee from that place. Yes there is mob violence against minorities in India but that's been happening for a long time now. For the average westerner, he'd be like "yeah it's just another third world country where s*** happens" and that's why westerners have been visiting India without a problem, because the mob violence against minorities doesn't bother them personally or endanger them.

    But the day when the hindu fundamentalists start attacking or even killing foreigners for eating beef in India, is the day you will start seeing westerners hesitating to visit India. He'd be like "I better gt*o here", that's the difference.
    Last edited by street cricketer; 4th December 2021 at 21:34.

  77. #877
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Is there any history of any sporting team being attacked in India?
    Dont be so arrogant about this fact. Anything can happen anywhere in the world. Yesterday was history, tomorrow is a mystery.

  78. #878
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post
    Don’t know about sporting team but a stadium was most certainly torched when India lost the 1996 semi final

    Don’t act like your country doesn’t have a higher share of Jaahils
    Stadium was torched? Which one?

    I don't need to act, the way sporting teams act at the mention of a pakistan tour, shows the reality.

  79. #879
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom View Post
    If someone says that kiwis were right to go because of the Sri Lankan team attacks I would entertain that theory.

    But trying to link random and tragic mob violence, with a cricket team leaving 2 months previously needs to be called out as rubbish.

    Please try to understand why posts are made before putting your superman costume on to defend India.

    We were merely calling out the posters flawed logic and were not saying that India should not hold international events.
    First of all i said then and i say it again, it was unfortunate that the kiwis went home suddenly.

    The way it happened was disgraceful.

    NZ had a intel of an attack and they wanted to go, they should have had a more graceful way of leaving.

  80. #880
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    Dont be so arrogant about this fact. Anything can happen anywhere in the world. Yesterday was history, tomorrow is a mystery.
    Well, i know and remember very well what posters wanted or want to happen to sporting events in India and how a certain intelligence agency should do that.

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