Sir David Amess killing was terrorist incident, Met Police say


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  1. #1
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    Sir David Amess killing was terrorist incident, Met Police say

    A Conservative MP has been stabbed multiple times in an incident at his constituency surgery and a man has been arrested.

    Sir David Amess, who represents Southend West in Essex, was attacked on Friday at Belfairs Methodist Church in Leigh-on-Sea.

    Sky News understands a man walked into his constituency surgery and stabbed him multiple times.

    It is believed Mr Amess, 69, has been receiving treatment at the scene for his injuries, with a local Conservative Party source telling Sky News that an air ambulance is at the scene.

    His condition is unclear, Sky News political correspondent Joe Pike reports.

    Essex Police wrote on Twitter: "We were called to reports of a stabbing in Eastwood Rd North shortly after 12.05pm.

    "A man was arrested shortly after & we're not looking for anyone else.

    "We'll bring you more info when we have it

    SKY


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  2. #2
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    Sir David Amess killing was terrorist incident, Met Police say

    A Tory MP has been stabbed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58929453

    This is frightening. After Jo Cox was assassinated. People are going nuts.

  3. #3
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    Horrible news hope he pulls through

    UK is no longer safe

  4. #4
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    He sadly passed away.

  5. #5
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    Oh ye gods, he has been murdered.

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  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Oh ye gods, he has been murdered.
    Conservative MP Sir David Amess has died after being stabbed at his constituency surgery in Essex.

    Police said a man was arrested on suspicion of murder after the stabbing at a church in Leigh-on-Sea.

    They said they recovered a knife and were not looking for anyone else in connection to the incident.

    Sir David, 69, had been an MP since 1983 and was married with five children.

    Education Secretary Nadhim Zahawi said on Twitter: "Rest In Peace Sir David.

    "You were a champion for animal welfare, the less fortunate, and the people of Southend West.

    "You will be missed by many."

    BBC


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  8. #7
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    Very sad news, and shocking. I hope they find the culprit and put him in solitary confinement for life.

  9. #8
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    Parties have suspended campaigning.

  10. #9
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    it's a Somalian guy who murdered him

  11. #10
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    Essex Police Chief Constable Ben-Julian Harrington has said the investigation into the killing of Conservative MP Sir David Amess is being led by the Counter Terrorism Command and that it is investigating whether or not the killing was a terrorism incident.



  12. #11
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    One of the strengths of the system is that constituents can meet their MPs and this terrible murder will end this great democratic meeting of minds.

  13. #12
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    Horrific. Awful.

    I am, I must say, rather in a state of shock.

  14. #13
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    The killing of Conservative MP Sir David Amess has been declared a terrorist incident by police.

    Sir David was stabbed multiple times at a constituency surgery in Leigh-on-Sea in Essex on Friday.

    The Metropolitan Police said there was "a potential motivation linked to Islamist extremism".

    A 25-year-old British man was arrested at the scene on suspicion of murder, and police said they were not seeking anyone else over the death.

    As part of the investigation, officers are carrying out searches at two addresses in the London area, the Met said.

    The force believes the man acted alone but inquiries into the circumstances of the incident are continuing.

    The man is in custody in Essex, police added.

    Government sources have told the BBC he is a British national who, from initial inquiries, appears to be of Somali heritage.

    Follow live updatesHow a tragic day unfolded in Leigh-on-SeaTributes to much-loved MP Sir David Amess

    Sir David, 69, who represented Southend West, was holding a constituency surgery - where voters can meet their MP and discuss concerns - at Belfairs Methodist Church on Friday when he was attacked at 12:05 BST.

    Essex Police chief constable BJ Harrington said Sir David was "simply dispensing his duties when his life was horrifically cut short".

    The Met said its counter-terrorism officers were working with colleagues from Essex Police and the Eastern Region Specialist Operations Unit (ERSOU).

    "The fatal stabbing in Leigh-on-Sea has tonight been declared as a terrorist incident, with the investigation being led by Counter Terrorism Policing," the force said.

    "The early investigation has revealed a potential motivation linked to Islamist extremism."

    Officers are appealing for anyone with any information about the incident, or those who have footage from CCTV, dash cams or video doorbell, to contact them.

    'Senseless attack'

    Meanwhile, Home Secretary Priti Patel has asked all police forces to review security arrangements for MPs "with immediate effect".

    Ms Patel said the killing "represents a senseless attack on democracy itself", adding that "questions are rightly being asked about the safety of our country's elected representatives".

    Sir David had been an MP since 1983 and was married with five children. He is the second serving MP to be killed in the past five years, following the murder of Labour MP Jo Cox in 2016.

    Prime Minister Boris Johnson described him as "one of the kindest, nicest, most gentle people in politics".

    Bbc
    Last edited by MenInG; 16th October 2021 at 10:25.


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    Waiting to hear that a recent convert to Islam stabbed him. I didn't know that some stabbings are terror attacks where as others are not. How do we distinguish between the two?


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  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    Waiting to hear that a recent convert to Islam stabbed him. I didn't know that some stabbings are terror attacks where as others are not. How do we distinguish between the two?
    It's not too difficult. You look at the motive for the killing.

  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    Waiting to hear that a recent convert to Islam stabbed him. I didn't know that some stabbings are terror attacks where as others are not. How do we distinguish between the two?
    They ask the murderer why he did it and find out who his contacts are.

    Just horrifying. Reads like the MP was universally loved across the House, a real nice guy. Murdered in a place of worship. Leaves a wife and five children.

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    They ask the murderer why he did it and find out who his contacts are.

    Just horrifying. Reads like the MP was universally loved across the House, a real nice guy. Murdered in a place of worship. Leaves a wife and five children.
    Really? So there can be a stabbing or murder that is not terrorism!. It just keeps getting worse.


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  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by pillionrider View Post
    It's not too difficult. You look at the motive for the killing.
    Soon it will somehow be linked to Islam and Muslims.


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  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    Really? So there can be a stabbing or murder that is not terrorism!. It just keeps getting worse.
    Yes, of course. Terrorism is violence to effect political gain. Most murders are not for political gain.

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    Soon it will somehow be linked to Islam and Muslims.
    Can you blame them?

    If the perp says he did it for Islam then people who dont know about the religion are likely to make that assumption.


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  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Can you blame them?

    If the perp says he did it for Islam then people who dont know about the religion are likely to make that assumption.
    Yes I do blame them for being dumb. If the same media said he was a Christian or Hindu no one would say a thing even if they are unread in the holy books of these religions.


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  23. #22
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    The fatal stabbing of Conservative MP Sir David Amess has been declared as a terrorist incident, police say.

    Sir David, who represented Southend West in Essex, was stabbed on Friday afternoon during a surgery at Belfairs Methodist Church in Leigh-on-Sea.

    Police officers and paramedics tried to save him but he died at the scene.

    The Metropolitan Police said that the early investigation had revealed "a potential motivation linked to Islamist extremism".

    The Met said the incident had formally been declared as terrorism by Senior National Coordinator for Counter Terrorism Policing, Deputy Assistant Commissioner Dean Haydon.

    A 25-year-old man - understood to be a Briton with Somali heritage - was arrested immediately at the scene on suspicion of murder.

    He is in custody at an Essex police station.

    ..


    Home Secretary Priti Patel has asked all police forces to immediately review security arrangements for MPs, while House of Commons Speaker Sir Lindsay Hoyle has also pledged to "examine" safety measures.

    He told Sky News that he had gone ahead with his own constituency surgery on Friday, despite the news of Sir David's death.

    "Nothing will stop democracy, nothing will stop us carrying out our duties," Sir Lindsay said.

    https://news.sky.com/story/fatal-sta...ident-12435051


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  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    Soon it will somehow be linked to Islam and Muslims.
    Linking all Muslims with the actions of some is a different game all together.

    Every country has its definition of Terror. If the guy says he did it for Islam, whether a Muslim thinks he's a lunatic or not, is of little consequence. The state will call it terrorism.

    Unfortunately for British Muslims, this is pretty bad. Though the West is fairly irreligious, the fact that it was done in a church makes it worse.

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pillionrider View Post
    Linking all Muslims with the actions of some is a different game all together.

    Every country has its definition of Terror. If the guy says he did it for Islam, whether a Muslim thinks he's a lunatic or not, is of little consequence. The state will call it terrorism.

    Unfortunately for British Muslims, this is pretty bad. Though the West is fairly irreligious, the fact that it was done in a church makes it worse.
    They will call it Muslim or Islamic terrorism gently pointing out one community or faith is responsible. If such an attack occurred in any other place of worship they will again blame the Muslim's, no religion, a lone gunman or a madman with mental issues. I am afraid all countries have one definition of terror now, Muslim's or Islam. When did you last hear people of any other faith being targeted like when the Hindu's murder the Kashmiris or Christian's did in the Middle East or Afghanistan?


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  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    They will call it Muslim or Islamic terrorism gently pointing out one community or faith is responsible. If such an attack occurred in any other place of worship they will again blame the Muslim's, no religion, a lone gunman or a madman with mental issues. I am afraid all countries have one definition of terror now, Muslim's or Islam. When did you last hear people of any other faith being targeted like when the Hindu's murder the Kashmiris or Christian's did in the Middle East or Afghanistan?
    You’re being paranoid. The murderer of Jo Cox MP was identified as a hard-right nationalist terrorist. Mass killer Anders Breivik was identified as an anti-Islam nationalist.

  27. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    They will call it Muslim or Islamic terrorism gently pointing out one community or faith is responsible. If such an attack occurred in any other place of worship they will again blame the Muslim's, no religion, a lone gunman or a madman with mental issues. I am afraid all countries have one definition of terror now, Muslim's or Islam. When did you last hear people of any other faith being targeted like when the Hindu's murder the Kashmiris or Christian's did in the Middle East or Afghanistan?
    Thats a very confusing statement. Are you implying that they did? or you are just giving a general example?

  28. #27
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    So no case of mental state here? Is it because the accused is black and a muslim? A quick search of his contacts list and its terrorism?

  29. #28
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    Priti Patel says it is "right and proper" that MPs are accessible to members of the public following Sir David Amess' killing - and stressed that politicians' safety and an open democracy "can absolutely be balanced".

    The home secretary's comments came as a spokesperson for the National Police Chiefs' Council (NPCC) confirmed every parliamentarian will be contacted about their security arrangements today by a chief constable as part of a review into MPs' safety.

    Operation Bridger, a nationwide police protective security operation established in 2016, will reach out to the more than 600 MPs to discuss their security arrangements following the murder of Sir David at a constituency surgery on Friday - with officers then reporting their findings back to Ms Patel.

    The NPCC spokesperson also encouraged MPs to "immediately report any security concerns" to their local forces and said funding for additional security measures is available through the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA) based on threat assessments made by police.

    On Friday, Ms Patel confirmed she had asked all police forces to immediately review security arrangements for MPs after the killing of Sir David in Leigh-on-Sea, Essex.

    It is understood the home secretary would like to see security for MPs across the country become more standardised and uniform as currently there is a variation in the level of security various members decide to take out.

    Sir David Amess murder: Senior Tory MP Tobias Ellwood calls for face-to-face meetings with constituents to be paused in wake of killing

    Foodbank fundraising pages launched after senior Tory MP Sir Peter Bottomley called his £81k salary 'really grim' on day of Universal Credit cut

    At present, most backbench MPs will not have the police protection offered to senior ministers.

    Sir David died after being stabbed at a surgery - where MPs offer face-to-face meetings with constituents - in his Southend West constituency.

    Speaking to reporters from the scene on Saturday morning, Ms Patel confirmed a review into MPs' safety is under way "to make sure that they are protected so that they can go around serving their constituents in an open way, but in a safe way".

    The home secretary said "further guidance" led by Commons Speaker Sir Lindsay Hoyle will shortly be given to MPs.

    "We cannot be cowed by any individual or any motivation - people with motives who stop us from functioning to serve our elected democracy - so on that basis we have measures in place," Ms Patel said.

    "We will continue to review and strengthen the measures and rightly so.

    "The Speaker and I will continue to support MPs, policing will continue to support MPs - that work is under way.

    "And we will continue to absolutely stand by the principles that we are elected by to serve our constituents in the open way in which we have been doing so, but also recognising that there are safety and protection measures that we have to undertake to."

    The review is being conducted as part of Operation Bridger - a nationwide police protective security operation to enhance the security of members of parliament that began after the murder of Labour MP Jo Cox in 2016.

    Following the launch of the operation five years ago, many MPs were given fobs that connect them to emergency services and panic alarms that they could place in their homes and offices.

    On Friday, Sir Lindsay promised to "examine" safety measures for MPs following the killing of Sir David, but cautioned against a "kneejerk reaction".

    "Nothing will stop democracy, nothing will stop us carrying out our duties," he told Sky News

    Ms Patel's comments came as a senior Conservative MP called for a temporary pause in face-to-face meetings between parliamentarians and their constituents following the killing of Sir David.

    Tobias Ellwood, who was hailed as a hero for his attempts to save the life of PC Keith Palmer during the Westminster terror attack in 2017, said physical engagements should be halted until the Home Office has completed its review of MPs' security.

    Posting on social media on Saturday morning, Mr Ellwood, who chairs the influential Commons Defence Select Committee, said: "MP engagement with the public: This is a vital part of our work - our accessibility with the public.

    "But understandable huge anxiety amongst MPs now. Until the home secretary's review of MP security is complete I would recommend a temporary pause in face to face meetings."

    However, not all MPs are of the view that normal business should be temporarily disrupted in the wake of Sir David's killing.

    Conservative former minister David Davis told Sky News he disagrees with fellow Tory Mr Ellwood's suggestion that face-to-face meetings between MPs and constituents should be paused, adding: "I don't think it would be a good reflection of David's memory to stop that in any way."

    Mr Davis told Sky News: "Whilst we all love him and admire him, what we shouldn't do in response to his tragic murder is break that link which he was the absolute champion of."

    He continued: "I mean, sure we should be cautious - maybe we should do things to try to ensure that people who come to see us are bona fide and so on - but I think actually pausing it would be a bad idea.

    "It would be a terrible reflection of what David (Amess) stood for. David himself was the ultimate constituency MP and you can see that in the response from people in his constituency."

    Conservative MP for High Peak, Robert Largan, said he would be continuing with his weekly advice surgery on Saturday and invited members of the public to come along without an appointment.

    Another Conservative MP John Redwood posted on social media: "We must ensure our representative traditions continue as David Amess would wish.

    "Violence must not stifle open debate nor the safe access of MPs to constituents' views. Margaret Thatcher spoke the morning after the Brighton bomb to make the point murderers do not win."

    Meanwhile, Kim Leadbeater, the sister of Jo Cox, who is now a Labour MP herself, said that many MPs will be "scared" by the death of Sir David.

    "My partner came home and said 'I don't want you to do it anymore, because the next time that phone goes it could be a different conversation'," she said.

    Fellow Conservative MP Steve Brine was asked by Sky News if he has had fears for his own safety while an MP.

    "Oh yeah, You bet," he replied.

    And Labour minister Lucy Powell said Greater Manchester Police have ensured "extra support" is in place for her following the killing.

    She tweeted: "I've had a number of reassuring calls from Greater Manchester Police today. Some extra measures and support being put in place. Much appreciated."

    Veteran Labour MP Harriet Harman said she will be writing to the prime minister asking him to back a Speaker's Conference to review the safety of parliamentarians in their constituencies following the death of Sir David.

    The amount of money spent protecting MPs rose substantially following the murder of Ms Cox in June 2016.

    Accounts from the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority showed MPs spent £2.5m on security in 2016/17 - up from £170,000 the previous year.

    The murder of Ms Cox came six years after Stephen Timms was stabbed twice in the stomach at a constituency surgery in east London.

    In January 2000, Andrew Pennington died while saving the life of Cheltenham MP Nigel Jones when they were attacked with a Samurai sword.

    SKY


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  30. #29
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    A man detained at the scene of Friday's fatal stabbing of MP Sir David Amess is 25-year-old Ali Harbi Ali, Whitehall officials have confirmed to the BBC.

    Police said he was being held at a London police station under the Terrorism Act 2000 and officers have until 22 October to question him.

    They spent Saturday searching three addresses in the London area.

    The BBC understands Mr Ali was referred to the counter-terrorist Prevent scheme a few years ago.

    Prevent is the UK's terrorism-prevention programme, which aims to stop people being radicalised.

    Teachers, members of the public, the NHS and others can refer individuals to a local panel of police, social workers and other experts who decide whether and how to intervene in their lives.

    Engagement in the scheme is voluntary and it is not a criminal sanction.

    It is unclear whether any further action was taken in the case of the suspect.



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    Another complete nutcase kills someone.

  32. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    Waiting to hear that a recent convert to Islam stabbed him. I didn't know that some stabbings are terror attacks where as others are not. How do we distinguish between the two?
    All stabbings are terror attacks. The media has made up its own definition of terrorism which is not right.

  33. #32
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    Its amazing how the authorities always keep these nutcases on a tab and know about them , yet somehow instead of arresting them or taking them out beforehand they are allowed to commit these attacks.

    This Somalian was known by the intelligence agencies and was referred to prevent counter terrorism scheme.

    Yet he was still walking around a ticking time bomb waiting to go off.

  34. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mazkhan View Post
    Its amazing how the authorities always keep these nutcases on a tab and know about them , yet somehow instead of arresting them or taking them out beforehand they are allowed to commit these attacks.

    This Somalian was known by the intelligence agencies and was referred to prevent counter terrorism scheme.

    Yet he was still walking around a ticking time bomb waiting to go off.
    You cannot arrest someone without a lawful charge, the police hands are tied in these situations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    You cannot arrest someone without a lawful charge, the police hands are tied in these situations.
    If they had suspicions of him then they could've detained him like countless people have been detained for anti-state activities before.


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  36. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    If they had suspicions of him then they could've detained him like countless people have been detained for anti-state activities before.
    No they can't. In some countries you can do this but not in England, if they did he could sue them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    No they can't. In some countries you can do this but not in England, if they did he could sue them.
    I'm pretty sure they've done it before like during 7/7 and a little after.

    https://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Extr...detention,_U.K.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    You’re being paranoid. The murderer of Jo Cox MP was identified as a hard-right nationalist terrorist. Mass killer Anders Breivik was identified as an anti-Islam nationalist.
    No I am not paranoid. I know many Muslim's are also involved in terrorist activities. This is why I opposed the return of Shamima Begum and a massive reduction on asylum seekers. What I am saying is don't make it sound as if the person's religion is responsible for the crime like the media does. Why does the government keep allowing these Somali's are Arab's in the country?


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    Quote Originally Posted by OMB View Post
    Thats a very confusing statement. Are you implying that they did? or you are just giving a general example?
    Do you not know how many Kashmiris the Hindu Indian army have murdered or NATO a Christian organisation in the Middle East and Africa?


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  40. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by srh View Post
    All stabbings are terror attacks. The media has made up its own definition of terrorism which is not right.
    If the media wants to highlights the terrorists religion then do so of everyone. They only highlight it when the terrorist is a Muslim.


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  41. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    No I am not paranoid. I know many Muslim's are also involved in terrorist activities. This is why I opposed the return of Shamima Begum and a massive reduction on asylum seekers. What I am saying is don't make it sound as if the person's religion is responsible for the crime like the media does. Why does the government keep allowing these Somali's are Arab's in the country?
    You have ignored my point about those two terrorist killers, both declared in the media to be hard right white nationalists.

    British prisons contain many terrorists inspired by an extremist political version or perversion of Islam. You mention Begum who joined Islamic State which claims political authority over all Muslims worldwide and calls them to join armed jihad.

    UK took in many Somali refugees fleeing civil war, as a humanitarian act.

  42. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    Do you not know how many Kashmiris the Hindu Indian army have murdered or NATO a Christian organisation in the Middle East and Africa?
    NATO is not a Christian organisation, though many soldiers will hold Christian beliefs. There are soldiers of all faiths and none.

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    Something doesnt add up with the narrative of Islamist terrorist involved in the murdering of a random UK MP.

    We already know how rubbish the security can be in the UK, as such the terrorist would have done something more extreme.

    I feel there is more to this story which is isnt being shared. Of course it is easy to put the blame on Islam & Alqaeda.

  44. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    Something doesnt add up with the narrative of Islamist terrorist involved in the murdering of a random UK MP.

    We already know how rubbish the security can be in the UK, as such the terrorist would have done something more extreme.

    I feel there is more to this story which is isnt being shared. Of course it is easy to put the blame on Islam & Alqaeda.
    Same reason that the white nationalist terrorist who killed Jo Cox MP didn’t do “something more extreme”.

    These guys are not criminal masterminds or warlords. They can’t communicate with like minds easily as GCHQ and MI5 will interdict them, so they act alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    So no case of mental state here? Is it because the accused is black and a muslim? A quick search of his contacts list and its terrorism?
    To be honest, anyone who does something like this, or the bow and arrow killing in Denmark, has to be mentally disturbed. There's no rationality behind going on a murder spree of random people. He was a Tory MP, probably more concerned about tax rates and schools than what goes on in Somalia.


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    the guy stabbed him multiple times and then didn't attack anyone else but calmly waited to be arrested by the police. Targeted assassination.

    Check out the guy's father on Twitter, a exiled rich politician who was vocal against Qatar's involvement in Somalia. Then check out the murdered MP's interest and association with Qatar and his visits there.

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    Harbi Ali Kullane is the father

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    The family of MP Sir David Amess have said their hearts are shattered as they called on people to "set aside hatred and work towards togetherness".

    The Conservative MP was stabbed multiple times during a meeting with his constituents in Essex on Friday.

    A 25-year-old British man is being held under the Terrorism Act.

    In a statement, his family said they were trying to understand "why this awful thing has occurred...nobody should die in that way. Nobody".

    Sir David, 69, was married with four daughters and a son.

    The family said the "wonderful" tributes paid to him by friends, constituents and the public had given them strength.

    "We have realised from tributes paid that there was far, far more to David than even we, those closest to him, knew," they added.

    "We are enormously proud of him. Our hearts are shattered."

    Raised as a Roman Catholic, Sir David was known politically as a social conservative and a prominent campaigner against abortion.

    He was also a committed campaigner on animal welfare issues, and supported a ban on fox hunting.

    A Conservative MP since 1983 - first in Basildon and, from 1997, in Southend West - he was a champion for the town he represented, particularly in his long-running campaign to make Southend a city.

    His family have asked people to support campaigns that he was involved in, including fundraising for a memorial to Dame Vera Lynn, who he thought "epitomised the strength of the nation" - and to help Southend gain city status.

    They described Sir David as strong and courageous, a patriot and a man of peace.

    "We ask people to set aside their differences and show kindness and love to all. Please let some good come from this tragedy.

    "We are absolutely broken, but we will survive and carry on for the sake of a wonderful and inspiring man."

    Tributes to Sir David have been pouring in from politicians and constituents, with Home Secretary Priti Patel saying his "infectious personality" meant he "touched so many lives".

    Over the weekend, people gathered for candlelit vigils in Leigh-on-Sea to mark Sir David's life and attended a church service to share their memories of him.

    Many constituents have reflected on his gentle nature and willingness to listen and to help.

    On Monday afternoon, MPs will pay tribute to their late colleague in the House of Commons ahead of a church service in his memory at Westminster Abbey.

    Detectives are continuing to hold the 25-year-old man at a London police station and have until Friday to question him.

    Whitehall officials confirmed the man's name as Ali Harbi Ali, and said he was a British man of Somali heritage.

    The BBC understands he was referred to the counter-terrorist Prevent scheme some years ago, but was never a formal subject of interest to MI5.

    It also understands that his father, Harbi Ali Kullane, who was previously an adviser to Somalia's prime minister, has been visited by police who have taken his phone for analysis.

    Police officers have spent the weekend searching three addresses in London.

    It is thought a converted Victorian property in Lady Somerset Road in north-west London is linked to the investigation. Neighbours said officers started searching it late on Friday night.

    Further searches, also believed to be part of the inquiry, have been taking place at a property in Bounds Green Road, north London, and another in Cranmer Road, Croydon.

    BBC


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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    You have ignored my point about those two terrorist killers, both declared in the media to be hard right white nationalists.

    British prisons contain many terrorists inspired by an extremist political version or perversion of Islam. You mention Begum who joined Islamic State which claims political authority over all Muslims worldwide and calls them to join armed jihad.

    UK took in many Somali refugees fleeing civil war, as a humanitarian act.
    I know there are white Nazi terrorists as well but by and large the media does relate most attacks to Islam and Muslim people. What about the many Christian terrorists including devout ones who invaded Muslim countries? Why are they not called "Christian's" by the media? That is my beef that why is the religion of other faiths not mentioned? .

    Humanitarian act? Not much humanity when the UK always agree's to all American wars on Muslim countries.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    NATO is not a Christian organisation, though many soldiers will hold Christian beliefs. There are soldiers of all faiths and none.
    It is a non Muslim organisation involved in wars on Muslim countries. It is a disguise calling themselves a secular organisation even if some soldiers within may be Muslim.


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    Pretty pathetic and ungrateful for murdering the people who gave you so much! I am not one bit surprised!


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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    I know there are white Nazi terrorists as well but by and large the media does relate most attacks to Islam and Muslim people. What about the many Christian terrorists including devout ones who invaded Muslim countries? Why are they not called "Christian's" by the media? That is my beef that why is the religion of other faiths not mentioned? .

    Humanitarian act? Not much humanity when the UK always agree's to all American wars on Muslim countries.
    Well, for the simple reason that most terror attacks in the UK are perpetrated by Muslims in the name of Islam, from 7/7 onwards.

    In the seventies through nineties most terror attacks in the UK were by Irish terrorists in the name of Republicanism.

    Yes, all these acts of terror have been taken in response to actions by HM Gov.

    I very much doubt that any British soldier in the last hundred years was motivated to kill for Christianity, which is all about forgiveness, helping people who are different, being kind and giving them charity.

    Though I understand from Colonel Tim Collins of the Royal Irish Regiment that some Americans believe they are fighting a war for Christ against Muslim invaders. Theirs is a more simplistic view of religion, more Old Testament, more judgemental, stemming from their Puritan roots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Well, for the simple reason that most terror attacks in the UK are perpetrated by Muslims in the name of Islam, from 7/7 onwards.

    In the seventies through nineties most terror attacks in the UK were by Irish terrorists in the name of Republicanism.

    Yes, all these acts of terror have been taken in response to actions by HM Gov.

    I very much doubt that any British soldier in the last hundred years was motivated to kill for Christianity, which is all about forgiveness, helping people who are different, being kind and giving them charity.

    Though I understand from Colonel Tim Collins of the Royal Irish Regiment that some Americans believe they are fighting a war for Christ against Muslim invaders. Theirs is a more simplistic view of religion, more Old Testament, more judgemental, stemming from their Puritan roots.
    What you talking about? You failed to mention the crusades, Aussies killing aboriginals or most of all the American's lynching blacks then enslaving them. These "turn the other cheek" Christians are the biggest hypocrites in the world even if these crimes took place centuries back. It is well known that many soldiers who killed Muslim's in Afghanistan and Iraq were doing their God's work. George Bush believed this to be the case so why were these war's not called "Christian wars" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

    That is the whole point that when a Christian kills innocents in Afghanistan or the IRA even abortion clinics being blown up we are told it was just a "lone gunman" as if they spoke to him before he committed the act. You have no idea what your Christian terror lovers do in Africa and Middle East because the mainstream media never tells us.

    Never mind what the old or new testament says. I know about all the violence Christian believers are inspired by when they commit such acts.


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    By the way the American weapons in Afghanistan had Biblical codes inscribed on them. Naturally most Christians are completely ignorant of such things because the media never tells us. When a believing Christian kills innocents we are told is was just a man suffering from schizophrenia.
    https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-mi...ory?id=9575794


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  55. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    What you talking about? You failed to mention the crusades, Aussies killing aboriginals or most of all the American's lynching blacks then enslaving them. These "turn the other cheek" Christians are the biggest hypocrites in the world even if these crimes took place centuries back. It is well known that many soldiers who killed Muslim's in Afghanistan and Iraq were doing their God's work. George Bush believed this to be the case so why were these war's not called "Christian wars" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

    That is the whole point that when a Christian kills innocents in Afghanistan or the IRA even abortion clinics being blown up we are told it was just a "lone gunman" as if they spoke to him before he committed the act. You have no idea what your Christian terror lovers do in Africa and Middle East because the mainstream media never tells us.

    Never mind what the old or new testament says. I know about all the violence Christian believers are inspired by when they commit such acts.
    I talked about what I talked about.

    You haven’t engaged with any of my points, for the second time. You are deflecting and generalising into whataboutery, so I will stop here.

  56. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I talked about what I talked about.

    You haven’t engaged with any of my points, for the second time. You are deflecting and generalising into whataboutery, so I will stop here.
    You are stopping because you don't like to be shown the mirror. You have no reply to my mail at all, do you?? All wars by America are strongly supported by their and western Christian evangelical community to bring forward their strange rapture. This they believe will take them straight to heaven! Yes British soldiers as well have many hardcore Christians.

    I see you are eager to condemn the Muslim extremists not the Christian ones.


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  57. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    You are stopping because you don't like to be shown the mirror. You have no reply to my mail at all, do you?? All wars by America are strongly supported by their and western Christian evangelical community to bring forward their strange rapture. This they believe will take them straight to heaven! Yes British soldiers as well have many hardcore Christians.

    I see you are eager to condemn the Muslim extremists not the Christian ones.
    As I am neither Christian nor terrorist, you are pointing the mirror in the wrong direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    As I am neither Christian nor terrorist, you are pointing the mirror in the wrong direction.
    Neither are 99.999% of Muslims. Neither does Islam justify this. Yet you are quick to point to some idiotic term such as Political Islamist .... You dont even know what the term you are using means.

    Condolences to the family of the MP, tragic for them.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    As I am neither Christian nor terrorist, you are pointing the mirror in the wrong direction.
    That may be so yet I see you ignore Christian and western terrorism and that of other religious communities. Muslim terrorism seems to be all you see!


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    Great speech by now Al-Jazeera host Mehdi Hasan.


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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    That may be so yet I see you ignore Christian and western terrorism and that of other religious communities. Muslim terrorism seems to be all you see!
    Err, if you look further up you will see that I mentioned the white nationalist murderer of Jo Cox MP, the white nationalist murderer Anders Breivik and Irish terrorism generally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Err, if you look further up you will see that I mentioned the white nationalist murderer of Jo Cox MP, the white nationalist murderer Anders Breivik and Irish terrorism generally.
    You are missing the point. Why are other religions not mentioned when believers kill?


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  63. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    You are missing the point. Why are other religions not mentioned when believers kill?
    Well, because in the UK no Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Sikhs, Pagans etc. have committed terror attacks in the name of their religion.

    Whereas the 7/7 bombers, Manchester bomber, Shoe Bomber, Gatwick suicide driver, Westminster Bridge suicide driver were in their minds all jihadis.

  64. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Neither are 99.999% of Muslims. Neither does Islam justify this. Yet you are quick to point to some idiotic term such as Political Islamist .... You dont even know what the term you are using means.

    Condolences to the family of the MP, tragic for them.
    Standard @KingKhan WC debate tactics - deflection and extreme generalisation, with added ad hominem attack.

    Play the ball not the man. What do you think motivated the 7/7 bombers, Fusilier Rigby murderers, Manchester bombers, Shoe Bomber - if not a political view of Islam?

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    CCTV footage, obtained by the BBC, has emerged showing the man believed to be the suspect in the killing of MP Sir David Amess.

    Police investigating the attack have been gathering CCTV from shops and businesses near where it is believed the alleged killer lived.

    Southend West MP Sir David, 69, was fatally stabbed in Essex on Friday.

    Ali Harbi Ali, 25, is being held under the Terrorism Act and officers have until Friday to question him.

    Whitehall officials have confirmed the man's name to the BBC.

    The CCTV footage shows a man, believed to be the suspect in the case, walking down Gordon House Road, in the direction of Gospel Oak Overground Station

    The manager of a convenience store, on Highgate Road, said on Saturday police had asked to view his CCTV footage from the previous morning and he then gave them a copy.

    Other shops along Highgate Road also confirmed police had visited and gathered CCTV footage from the day of Sir David's death.

    Sir David, who had been an MP since 1983, was meeting constituents at a church in Leigh-on-Sea when he was stabbed multiple times at around 12:05 BST on Friday.

    Officers investigating the case have searched two addresses in the London area.

    A 25-year-old man was arrested at the scene of the killing. Police said they were not looking for anyone else in connection with the attack.

    Floral tributes to Sir David were being moved on Tuesday from outside Belfairs Methodist Church, where he was attacked, to his constituency office.

    A sign from Southend Borough Council outside the church asks those paying tribute to the MP to leave flowers at Iveagh Hall. A book of condolence is open both there and at the Civic Centre in Southend.

    On Monday, Sir David's family, including his wife Julia, visited the church to read some of the messages left in his memory.

    Later MPs paid tribute to their colleague and Prime Minister Boris Johnson announced that the Queen had given her approval for Southend to be granted city status - something for which Sir David had long campaigned.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Standard @KingKhan WC debate tactics - deflection and extreme generalisation, with added ad hominem attack.

    Play the ball not the man. What do you think motivated the 7/7 bombers, Fusilier Rigby murderers, Manchester bombers, Shoe Bomber - if not a political view of Islam?
    Foreign policy motivated them. This was warned by the MI5 chief after the Iraq war.

    Its fair if you write terms which are mere anti-Islam propaganda. Please explain what an Islamist is? What the Arabic translation is? When did this term appear in history and who is mostly used by?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Well, because in the UK no Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Sikhs, Pagans etc. have committed terror attacks in the name of their religion.

    Whereas the 7/7 bombers, Manchester bomber, Shoe Bomber, Gatwick suicide driver, Westminster Bridge suicide driver were in their minds all jihadis.
    My beef is why are the murders of innocents in Africa, Middle East and Afghanistan not called Christian terrorism when they were supported by the evangelical Christian community. When Bush a devout Zionist Christian said he was doing's God's work by killing Muslim's? When the weapons used in Afghanistan had Biblical codes on them.

    What are you talking about for goodness sake?? In India the Hindu's are killing Muslim's every day in the name of religion forcing them to chant "Jai Shri Ram". The Jews have been killing Palestinians for years in the name of religion too. Don't tell me British lives are more important then other ones! When the UK always loves to be America's lapdog such things are to be expected. Where are the WMD that Tony Blair told us Iraq had?


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    An interesting point to ponder, the Parson’s Green bomber in London was reported to be an Islamist terrorist, but his court proceedings revealed that he committed an act of terrorism because he wanted to avenge the death of his families members in Iraq.

    Very grey area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    An interesting point to ponder, the Parson’s Green bomber in London was reported to be an Islamist terrorist, but his court proceedings revealed that he committed an act of terrorism because he wanted to avenge the death of his families members in Iraq.

    Very grey area.
    It so happens much of the ravaged countries by Western forces are Muslim nations .. ie Libya, Somalia.

    Many of these people are damaged

  70. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Foreign policy motivated them. This was warned by the MI5 chief after the Iraq war.

    Its fair if you write terms which are mere anti-Islam propaganda. Please explain what an Islamist is? What the Arabic translation is? When did this term appear in history and who is mostly used by?
    So you accept that they are driven to murder innocents by a political view.

    Islamism is a Western term which can be defined as a political system of thought which posits that modern nation states should be rebuilt constitutionally, economically and legally in the terms of what it considers total Islamic practice. Islamism would therefore be opposed to liberal democratic institutions.

    It first appeared in history in a US court in 1891. It came into common use in French academia in the 1970s and the use spread into English, replacing the term “Muslim fundamentalism”.

    An example of Islamism began the emergence of the Muslim Brotherhood in 1928. The movement is non-violent. It became political in attempting to end British control of Egypt through nonviolent means. However it is classed as a terrorist organisation by many states including some Arab states and Russia.

    Jihadism is separate from Islamism - the use of violence to achieve political Islam, as practiced by Al-Qaeda, ISIL, and further back the assassins of Anwar Sadat.

  71. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Technics 1210 View Post
    An interesting point to ponder, the Parson’s Green bomber in London was reported to be an Islamist terrorist, but his court proceedings revealed that he committed an act of terrorism because he wanted to avenge the death of his families members in Iraq.

    Very grey area.
    But didn’t he blame the British government for those deaths? Do you mean that he just wanted revenge for personal loss, rather than to promote political Islam?

  72. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    My beef is why are the murders of innocents in Africa, Middle East and Afghanistan not called Christian terrorism when they were supported by the evangelical Christian community. When Bush a devout Zionist Christian said he was doing's God's work by killing Muslim's? When the weapons used in Afghanistan had Biblical codes on them.

    What are you talking about for goodness sake?? In India the Hindu's are killing Muslim's every day in the name of religion forcing them to chant "Jai Shri Ram". The Jews have been killing Palestinians for years in the name of religion too. Don't tell me British lives are more important then other ones! When the UK always loves to be America's lapdog such things are to be expected. Where are the WMD that Tony Blair told us Iraq had?
    Ah, now that’s a different kettle of fish. You have expanded the scope of the discussion to global. We were, I thought, talking about terrorist incidents in the UK.

    If you go up the thread a bit you will see my reference to British Army Colonel Tim Collins and what he said about American Christian fundamentalists in the US military who believed they were engaged in holy war in Iraq. He butted heads with some of them. Yes, there is a parallel to be drawn between fundy American preachers and jihad-promoting imams.

  73. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    My beef is why are the murders of innocents in Africa, Middle East and Afghanistan not called Christian terrorism when they were supported by the evangelical Christian community. When Bush a devout Zionist Christian said he was doing's God's work by killing Muslim's? When the weapons used in Afghanistan had Biblical codes on them.

    What are you talking about for goodness sake?? In India the Hindu's are killing Muslim's every day in the name of religion forcing them to chant "Jai Shri Ram". The Jews have been killing Palestinians for years in the name of religion too. Don't tell me British lives are more important then other ones! When the UK always loves to be America's lapdog such things are to be expected. Where are the WMD that Tony Blair told us Iraq had?
    Bush never said that, you have made that up.

  74. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Bush never said that, you have made that up.
    He said God told him to liberate Iraq from Saddam, not “kill Muslims”.

    Of course, the one meant the other.

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    The Met have today charged the suspect with Murder and Terrorism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    But didn’t he blame the British government for those deaths? Do you mean that he just wanted revenge for personal loss, rather than to promote political Islam?
    He blamed Western foreign policy and wanted to avenge the death of his family. His motive was revenge, not promoting the Islamist ideology. It was the police who charged him under terrorism because he was found to be preparing terrorist material (bomb), and the media branded him an Islamist just because he was a Muslim.

    The reality is that his actual motive was never reported on.

  77. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritOf1903 View Post
    It so happens much of the ravaged countries by Western forces are Muslim nations .. ie Libya, Somalia.

    Many of these people are damaged
    Unfortunately Western foreign policy has ushered in a generation of Muslim refugees who will seek nothing but revenge. I doubt we will hear the end of such attacks for decades to come.

    The effects of Western foreign policy are literally coming home to roost.

  78. #77
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    A 25-year-old man has been charged with murder and the preparation of terrorist acts after the fatal stabbing of MP Sir David Amess.

    Ali Harbi Ali was arrested following the attack at a constituency surgery in Leigh-on-Sea, Essex, on Friday.

    Sir David, a Conservative MP since 1983, suffered multiple stab wounds and died at the scene.

    Mr Ali is a British man whose father is a former adviser to Somalia's prime minister.

    Nick Price, from the Crown Prosecution Service, said: "We will submit to the court that this murder has a terrorist connection, namely that it had both religious and ideological motivations."

    Mr Ali, from north London, remains in custody and is due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court later.

    Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner Matt Jukes sent his "deepest condolences" to the family, friends and colleagues of the MP.

    "Sir David's dedication to his family, his constituents and his community, and his positive impact on the lives of so many has been abundantly clear since his death," he said.

    Since the killing, a large team of detectives in the Metropolitan Police's Counter Terrorism Command had been "working around the clock" to search several addresses in north London, analyse digital devices and review CCTV, Mr Jukes said.


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  79. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Ah, now that’s a different kettle of fish. You have expanded the scope of the discussion to global. We were, I thought, talking about terrorist incidents in the UK.

    If you go up the thread a bit you will see my reference to British Army Colonel Tim Collins and what he said about American Christian fundamentalists in the US military who believed they were engaged in holy war in Iraq. He butted heads with some of them. Yes, there is a parallel to be drawn between fundy American preachers and jihad-promoting imams.
    What is so special about the UK or British lives that fascinates you so much? You obviously consider other human beings as being inferior that you keep using such absurd terms like "British lives". The Jihadist folk preaching hate is a reaction to what British and American armies do abroad. I asked you why the media does not use the term "Christian terrorism" not what some Colonel said.

    The thing is even if a non practising Muslim blows up innocent people his faith will be highlighted to get the message across. When it comes to Christian terrorism we are told is is Loyalists, the word Protestants is never used. https://theintercept.com/2018/04/05/...n-prosecution/


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  80. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Bush never said that, you have made that up.
    Of course Bush said that.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    What is so special about the UK or British lives that fascinates you so much? You obviously consider other human beings as being inferior that you keep using such absurd terms like "British lives". The Jihadist folk preaching hate is a reaction to what British and American armies do abroad. I asked you why the media does not use the term "Christian terrorism" not what some Colonel said.

    The thing is even if a non practising Muslim blows up innocent people his faith will be highlighted to get the message across. When it comes to Christian terrorism we are told is is Loyalists, the word Protestants is never used. https://theintercept.com/2018/04/05/...n-prosecution/
    Because the thread is about the murder of a British MP in Britain by an alleged terrorist who is Muslim. You asked why the MSM only talks about Muslim terrorists in Britain and I replied that they also talk about hard-right terrorists.

    As for Northern Ireland, there are a few Prod Republicans and a few Catholic Loyalists so the relationship between religion and nationalism is not absolute though there is a strong correlation. The UVF and UDA were Protestant and I heard them mentioned on the news as “Protestant paramilitaries”.

    I never mentioned “British lives”. You really should stop making up stuff you think people have sad when they didn’t.

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