Michael Vaughan: "I'm named in the Azeem Rafiq report - but I totally deny any accusation of racism"


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  1. #1
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    Michael Vaughan: "I'm named in the Azeem Rafiq report - but I totally deny any accusation of racism"

    The Azeem Rafiq-Yorkshire story has dominated the news and as a pundit I would normally comment on what has happened.

    But it has been very difficult for me to speak about it and I want to explain why that has been the case.

    From Azeem’s early days at Yorkshire, I was a massive fan of this young, dynamic player. He thought out of the box and that excited me. He got Yorkshire going. He was full of energy and buzz. I felt that he had something about him and I was vocal about the fact that I thought he potentially had a good career ahead of him.

    As a lover of cricket and Yorkshire, and someone who has been a fan of Rafiq, it has been difficult to hear about the painful experiences he endured during his time at the club.

    But as difficult as that process has been, I recognise that it is equally necessary. At an individual level, it is clear that Azeem has endured a lot. It is not only right but essential that his experiences and his perspective are heard. There are unquestionably lessons to be learned.

    The statements made by Gary Ballance and others have laid bare awkward but necessary questions for cricket to answer regarding how dressing rooms, teams and individuals function in the modern era.

    In December 2020 I was asked to speak to the independent panel formed by Yorkshire to investigate Rafiq’s claims. Other than having well-known and longstanding associations to the club I had no idea why they wanted to speak to me but I agreed to make myself available.

    The night before I was due to give evidence, out of the blue, I was hit with the news that Rafiq was alleging that in 2009, when I was still a player and before a Yorkshire match against Nottinghamshire, I had said to Rafiq and two other Asian players as we walked onto the field together that there are “too many of you lot, we need to do something about it”.

    This hit me very hard. It was like being struck over the head with a brick. I have been involved in cricket for 30 years and never once been accused of any remotely similar incident or disciplinary offence as a player or commentator. That the allegation came completely out of the blue and more than a decade after it was alleged to have happened made it all the more difficult to process.

    I completely and categorically deny that I ever said those words. I responded to the panel by saying I was gobsmacked and that my professional legal advice was that I could not appear before a panel having had just a few hours’ notice of the such serious claims made against me.

    It was 11 years after the alleged event. Nothing at all was raised or said at the time of the game in question. It was not mentioned at the time or at any stage over the next 11 years until the night before I was asked to speak to the inquiry.

    Rafiq is pursuing an ongoing live compensation claim against Yorkshire. He announced that at the same time as I was asked to speak with the Yorkshire panel. My legal team sent a series of questions to the Yorkshire panel asking about guarantees of confidentiality, the terms of reference and which inquiry - the Yorkshire one or the employment tribunal - had precedence. It seemed remarkable to me and to my advisors that there were to be two parallel inquiries into substantially the same issues, with the potential for different findings on those same issues.

    The answers we received from the panel were not satisfactory so I declined to appear before the Yorkshire hearing, pending clarification on the nature of any claims that would also be addressed in Rafiq’s compensation claim through the Employment Tribunal.

    I have nothing to hide. The “you lot” comment never happened. Anyone trying to recollect words said 10 years ago will be fallible but I am adamant those words were not used. If Rafiq believes something was said at the time to upset him then that is what he believes. It is difficult to comment on that except to say it hurts me hugely to think I potentially affected someone. I take it as the most serious allegation ever put in front of me and I will fight to the end to prove I am not that person.

    It was also alleged that later, when I was advising Yorkshire on playing matters, I said in front of Azeem that Yorkshire should sign Kane Williamson as a Twenty20 player because he bowls off-spin as well as bats. Azeem states in his evidence that bowling “off-spin” was said in his presence to make him feel inferior.

    First of all I would never have said that in front of a group. My relationship with Yorkshire was to watch on match days and give a view on how they could improve. I saw the way Williamson played in Twenty20 cricket and recognised that we needed three-dimensional cricketers in our top four who could score runs, bowl overs and field well. Never have I discriminated against anyone or judged a player based on race.

    All I ask and all I have ever asked is ‘how can we improve as a team?’ By suggesting Yorkshire sign Williamson I was attempting to improve the team and my cricket knowledge suggests that was the right call. Again, it hurts to be told that Rafiq believes that in recommending the signature of Williamson, I was attacking him and that I was doing so on grounds of race.

    In time, I am more than happy to meet with Azeem. I would welcome it. I would like to sit with him, listen to what he went through and understand his perspective. It has been very hard for me to communicate with him directly for legal reasons but I hope we can now talk in person and understand each other’s point of view.

    I absolutely deny that I ever said what he claims and that I recommended Kane Williamson for anything other than purely cricketing reasons. But having heard what has come out in the last few days, I can see how his perspective, and his experience was clearly very different to how I saw things at Yorkshire at that time.

    I played professional cricket for 18 years between 1991 and 2009. All players in that period are now looking back on things that were said and admit they would not say them now. I never heard racist abuse but Yorkshire was a hard dressing room. As a second team player we had to knock on the dressing room door before entering. If you had a big nose, were bald or carried a bit of weight they would be commented on.

    I was the first non-Yorkshire born player to play for the county and that was commented on a lot. I am not comparing those examples with racism but they are examples of previously commonplace behaviour which is unacceptable now. We cannot change what was said or happened in dressing rooms 10-15 years ago but we can learn from it.

    During the summer, I told my colleagues at the BBC that these allegations had been made against me. I felt uncomfortable that it could emerge and they would be asked some awkward questions. Similarly, I am speaking now because it is right for people to hear my side and that I completely deny the allegations.

    I accept Yorkshire have dealt with this terribly. They will be honest enough to admit that. It is a good cricket club and it is close to my heart. I hope I can be part of the movement to rebrand the club and people will eventually look back on this time and say it changed for the better.

    The Yorkshire I love is a club that only wants to produce the best players and win games of cricket. Clearly there are issues in English cricket, spread wider than Yorkshire, about why so many young Asian players are not graduating through to the professional game.

    A good number of the young cricketers I see and enjoy watching around the pathway programme are Asian and yet so few make it to first team county cricket. We have to improve the pathway to make sure their talent is nurtured and we need to listen to them and their families about why it is not happening.

    We cannot use the old excuses that they do not like the culture of Saturday afternoon games or parents do not want their children to pursue cricket and to study instead. It is for the game to make it work for them to make the most of this huge talent pool.

    Relevant extracts from Yorkshire's report
    I [Azeem Rafiq] then made it to the professional set up of YCCC as staff, together with Adil Rashid, Ajmal Shazad and Rana Naveed.

    In a game in 2009, Nottingham v Yorkshire, as we were all walking on the field, a senior player, Michael Vaughan, said: “Too many of you lot we need to do something about it”.

    This comment was addressed to me, Adil Rashid, Ajmal Shazad and Rana Naveed. We all heard it...

    These comments from Michael Vaughan “you lot” is how we would be addressed by him and others because of our race...

    When Michael Vaughan retired, he took up the position as advisor and would often come to YCCC giving his opinion and captain- coach options which particularly were aimed at moving me out of the team.

    One such recommendation was for Kane Williamson to be signed and he categorically said he bowls “off-spin” really well too.

    This is ridiculous as Kane Williamson is a batsman only.

    This comment about him bowling “off-spin” was simply made in my presence to make me feel inferior.

    To Michael Vaughan, this was classified as banter. To me, it is racism. It is because of my race, colour, ethnic origin, that Michael Vaughan made the comments that he did.



  2. #2
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    Vaughan has played with a lot of British Asian cricketers, including the three yorkshire lads named in the article.

    Lets see who speaks up against him.

    Again, its a vociferous denial.

    Will the ECB have the guts to deal with Azeem impartially? Unfortunately they are now under a lot of pressure.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom View Post
    Vaughan has played with a lot of British Asian cricketers, including the three yorkshire lads named in the article.

    Lets see who speaks up against him.

    Again, its a vociferous denial.

    Will the ECB have the guts to deal with Azeem impartially? Unfortunately they are now under a lot of pressure.
    I wouldn’t allude to what Vaughan says is the gospel truth, it is a bit of a he said she said scenario but there’s also evidence out there which indicates the club and its supporters are not exactly innocent angels who mean really well.

    If it’s true, a shame really, Vaughan is a bit of a prat but I never saw him as a racist and he was someone I was a big fan of growing up. Will be interesting to see if the others in the scenario support him or not.

  4. #4
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    Ooh boy... Clearly some issues with Rafiq but on Sky, Strauss was talking about Windies and referred to them as "these lot" but Rafiq may be deemed incredible.. intriguing

  5. #5
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    Really long denial, I wonder if any of the other players heard the comment?

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  7. #6
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    This is getting bigger by the day.

    It's a wake up call finally to those in denial in the corridors of power in English cricket.



  8. #7
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    What makes me think that Azeem’s allegations are credible is that he has named Adil Rashid, Ajmal Shazad and Rana Naveed as all being present when those comments weee made. Rashid may not want to comment on it due to very much being part of the English set up right now. Will the others speak up about it? Would be interesting to hear what any of the other three have to say.

  9. #8
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    Also Vaughan has decided that a sensible way to protect his bottom is to try and make a preemptive strike - it was ok when the report wasn’t getting much attention, but suddenly the whole world is focussing on it and Vaughan realised that the full contents of that report will be out in the open very soon. He is therefore trying to do some damage limitation here.

    I don’t think Vaughan is a racist by any stretch, but can I imagine he said those words thinking it was funny? Yes I can. Casual racism is something that’s probably been quite common in cricket for decades.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman View Post
    What makes me think that Azeem’s allegations are credible is that he has named Adil Rashid, Ajmal Shazad and Rana Naveed as all being present when those comments weee made. Rashid may not want to comment on it due to very much being part of the English set up right now. Will the others speak up about it? Would be interesting to hear what any of the other three have to say.
    Well Rashid needs to speak up, for the greater good.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    This is getting bigger by the day.

    It's a wake up call finally to those in denial in the corridors of power in English cricket.
    Imran khan said it in 1999, nothing was done.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ind...651.html%3famp

  12. #11
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    Ajmal shahzad in the past denied any such incident .

    But I can only go off my own experiences and I had a good time at Yorkshire and the people were good to me.

    'It was such a good environment that I actually picked up the phone to (director of cricket) Martyn Moxon and (coach) Andrew Gale in December and asked if I could come and get involved in their practices and they welcomed me with open arms

    Ajmal shahzads own words

  13. #12
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    I always felt Vaughan had a racist streak in him.

    The way he treated Kabir Ali under his captaincy in 2004 from memory was very harsh.

    Rana Naveed spoke out did he not about racism within YCCC.

    It’s all starting to get interesting now as the ECB are getting involved.

  14. #13
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    I am lost for words what i have just read in the Daily Mail about another asian players experience.

    Makes you sick

  15. #14
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    The purging at the ECB as a result of this report might pave the way for Wasim Khan to take over.

  16. #15
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    A racist doesnt have to be a racist to every person of colour they meet to be a racist.

    Some things are subtle, its only those who assimilate (or attempt to) who are fully exposed to it.

  17. #16
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    Vaughan has a nasty streak to him so I would not be surprised if he did say those words.

    I can't forget when he tweeted that Moeen Ali should check with Muslim cricket fans if they know any terrorists!

  18. #17
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    Vaughan's spent a lot of time, and money, with his agent, PR advisors and lawyers to come up with that fairy tale statement.

    He's tried to tick all the boxes, but also being careful not to criticise YCCC.

    But the part that made me laugh was

    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    From Azeem’s early days at Yorkshire, I was a massive fan of this young, dynamic player. He thought out of the box and that excited me. He got Yorkshire going. He was full of energy and buzz. I felt that he had something about him and I was vocal about the fact that I thought he potentially had a good career ahead of him.

    As a lover of cricket and Yorkshire, and someone who has been a fan of Rafiq, it has been difficult to hear about the painful experiences he endured during his time at the club.
    So Vaughan was a massive fan of Azeem Rafiq?


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  19. #18
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    well, he said it to rafiq, rash and rana naved, if any of the other two corroborate it you wont be able to give vaughan any benefit of the doubt.

    yccc going down the drain fast, apparently resignations imminent.

  20. #19
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    I'm not surprised, does anyone else remember Vaughan's tweet after the APS massacre in Pakistan.


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  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    I always felt Vaughan had a racist streak in him.

    The way he treated Kabir Ali under his captaincy in 2004 from memory was very harsh.

    Rana Naveed spoke out did he not about racism within YCCC.

    It’s all starting to get interesting now as the ECB are getting involved.
    Root effectively kiboshed Rashid's test career...


  22. #21
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    Vaughan is a right wing conservative when it comes to politics and many of his views fall on the "questionable" spectrum.

    Players like Vaughan, Mark Waugh, etc., may not be outright racists, but a lot of their views would come under casual racism.

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
    I'm not surprised, does anyone else remember Vaughan's tweet after the APS massacre in Pakistan.
    What did he say?

  24. #23
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    Cant say I'm surprised by this.

  25. #24
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    Rana Naved-ul-Hasan has confirmed to the media that he heard Michael Vaughan making racially insensitive comments to a group of Asian players at Yorkshire which refutes Vaughan's claims!

    Ab bolain Vaughan Sahib?


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    Vaughan is a right wing conservative when it comes to politics and many of his views fall on the "questionable" spectrum.

    Players like Vaughan, Mark Waugh, etc., may not be outright racists, but a lot of their views would come under casual racism.
    I think we will have to cut Vaughan and Mark Waugh a bit of slack. In 2021, our understanding of what constitutes racism/casual racism is a lot more nuanced and society as a whole is coming down heavily on such things.
    These guys are old now and I'm sure that even back when they were playing, I'm sure they had more liberal views than the generation before them.

    Mark Waugh himself was born in 1965 when Australia still had a "White Australia" policy. What was considered "acceptable" during his formative years in Australian society is probably markedly different today .


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  27. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    Vaughan is a right wing conservative when it comes to politics and many of his views fall on the "questionable" spectrum.

    Players like Vaughan, Mark Waugh, etc., may not be outright racists, but a lot of their views would come under casual racism.
    Then 99% of the world is casually racist... from what ive read azeem rafiq seems like an avg cricketer who thought he was good was wasnt good enough...

    Im sure there was some racism invovled with his case. But for him to call out his best friend Gary Ballance is kinda of odd, while also he was calling him a "zimbo" which is pak! For a zimbabwaean..

    How come he isnt being called out for his racism??
    Do you think he never talked sht about gores? Called them ferungi? Like grow up. South asians are the most racist towards whites...

    This case is opportune based case.. everyone is screaming racism right now and why not him.

    Dude was never good enough for county cricket.
    Last edited by Sir-fraz; 5th November 2021 at 14:57.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Rana Naved-ul-Hasan has confirmed to the media that he heard Michael Vaughan making racially insensitive comments to a group of Asian players at Yorkshire which refutes Vaughan's claims!

    Ab bolain Vaughan Sahib?
    Wow! When did this happen? Was it a tweet? I've just tried to Google this and could not find it. It's quite serious if there is someone backing Azeem's claims and without the barrier of anonymity.

  29. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir-fraz View Post
    Then 99% of the world is casually racist... from what ive read azeem rafiq seems like an avg cricketer who thought he was good was wasnt good enough...

    Im sure there was some racism invovled with his case. But for him to call out his best friend Gary Ballance is kinda of odd, while also he was calling him a "zimbo" which is pak! For a zimbabwaean..

    How come he isnt being called out for his racism??
    Do you think he never talked sht about gores? Called them ferungi? Like grow up. South asians are the most racist towards whites...

    This case is opportune based case.. everyone is screaming racism right now and why not him.

    Dude was never good enough for county cricket.
    Do you live in the UK? I grew up here, **** is a detestable term. It is typically used to denigrate Asians and I've faced this rubbish in grass roots football from a young age. It cannot be compared to Zimbo as a slur.

  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir-fraz View Post
    Then 99% of the world is casually racist... from what ive read azeem rafiq seems like an avg cricketer who thought he was good was wasnt good enough...

    Im sure there was some racism invovled with his case. But for him to call out his best friend Gary Ballance is kinda of odd, while also he was calling him a "zimbo" which is pak! For a zimbabwaean..

    How come he isnt being called out for his racism??
    Do you think he never talked sht about gores? Called them ferungi? Like grow up. South asians are the most racist towards whites...

    This case is opportune based case.. everyone is screaming racism right now and why not him.

    Dude was never good enough for county cricket.
    if you still dont no the difference between zimbo and P*** in British society then please do not comment as your making yourself come across as naďve. Regardless of cricket acumen you cannot go around calling someone a P*** in UK its the equivalent of caling a black person the N word.

    Calling someone a zimbo is like calling someone an aussie, miles apart in meaning and connotations behind it.

    Is the fact that he isn't good enough at cricket the reason to be racist to him?

  31. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mastimasti View Post
    Wow! When did this happen? Was it a tweet? I've just tried to Google this and could not find it. It's quite serious if there is someone backing Azeem's claims and without the barrier of anonymity.
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/54141856

  32. #31
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    Freedom of speech.. if you cant handle a couple of words you cant handle the pressure of professional sports.

    This is sports banter and is similar to gaming banter..

    Azeem himself was invovled with kind of banter with his friend Gary Ballance who he called a "Zimbo" many times. Same as Pak!

    What are gonna do thought police people? Most people are not racist and because oif the small % of people who are.

    There are tools out there ready to give up their freedoms and rights thinking that will solve the issuw but it wont.. all it will do is enslave you more to the corporate mafia....

    This is case is blown of proportion and the only reason its even getting any headlines is because racism has become a mainstream talking subject that brings clicks...

    This is like a pakistani crickter crying to the media he didnt get selected because hes from sind, karachi, punjabi etc....

    The real reason he was never selected was because he wasnt good enough..

  33. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentkiller187 View Post
    if you still dont no the difference between zimbo and P*** in British society then please do not comment as your making yourself come across as naďve. Regardless of cricket acumen you cannot go around calling someone a P*** in UK its the equivalent of caling a black person the N word.

    Calling someone a zimbo is like calling someone an aussie, miles apart in meaning and connotations behind it.

    Is the fact that he isn't good enough at cricket the reason to be racist to him?
    Lol clearly u got emotional and didnt understand what i said. I said hes an opportunist..

  34. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir-fraz View Post
    Then 99% of the world is casually racist... from what ive read azeem rafiq seems like an avg cricketer who thought he was good was wasnt good enough...

    Im sure there was some racism invovled with his case. But for him to call out his best friend Gary Ballance is kinda of odd, while also he was calling him a "zimbo" which is pak! For a zimbabwaean..

    How come he isnt being called out for his racism??
    Do you think he never talked sht about gores? Called them ferungi? Like grow up. South asians are the most racist towards whites...

    This case is opportune based case.. everyone is screaming racism right now and why not him.

    Dude was never good enough for county cricket.
    Racism is when someone dehumanises you because of your skin colour or facial features that's outside your control.

    South asians can be very racist towards black people, but you cannot be racist towards white people. Rude yes, not racist. If you think calling a white person "firangi" is racism, real people of colour who experience the worst racism would love to experience that kind of racism for a change.

  35. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentkiller187 View Post
    if you still dont no the difference between zimbo and P*** in British society then please do not comment as your making yourself come across as naďve. Regardless of cricket acumen you cannot go around calling someone a P*** in UK its the equivalent of caling a black person the N word.

    Calling someone a zimbo is like calling someone an aussie, miles apart in meaning and connotations behind it.

    Is the fact that he isn't good enough at cricket the reason to be racist to him?
    From wht gary said its not... he said its a racist term.. you cant say it isnt ur not zimbwmawean

  36. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by street cricketer View Post
    Racism is when someone dehumanises you because of your skin colour or facial features that's outside your control.

    South asians can be very racist towards black people, but you cannot be racist towards white people. Rude yes, not racist. If you think calling a white person "firangi" is racism, real people of colour who experience the worst racism would love to experience that kind of racism for a change.
    You cant be racism towards whites? Now why is that? You cant pick and choose which color you can be racist towards?

    Also do u live overseas?

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    @street cricketer

    That a hypocritical point of view.. you can be racist towards any race.. white is a color too just like black brown yellow etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir-fraz View Post
    From wht gary said its not... he said its a racist term.. you cant say it isnt ur not zimbwmawean
    How many people have been legally charged or reprimanded in the UK for using the term Zimbo in comparison to P word?? Ofcourse ballance is going to say its racist its his only defence apart from banter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir-fraz View Post
    Freedom of speech.. if you cant handle a couple of words you cant handle the pressure of professional sports.

    This is sports banter and is similar to gaming banter..

    Azeem himself was invovled with kind of banter with his friend Gary Ballance who he called a "Zimbo" many times. Same as Pak!

    What are gonna do thought police people? Most people are not racist and because oif the small % of people who are.

    There are tools out there ready to give up their freedoms and rights thinking that will solve the issuw but it wont.. all it will do is enslave you more to the corporate mafia....

    This is case is blown of proportion and the only reason its even getting any headlines is because racism has become a mainstream talking subject that brings clicks...

    This is like a pakistani crickter crying to the media he didnt get selected because hes from sind, karachi, punjabi etc....

    The real reason he was never selected was because he wasnt good enough..

    Let’s not victim blame here. Those that grew up in the UK and have suffered racism understand the connotations behind the P word. It’s never been associated with positivity. Almost always said in a negative manner. It’s a derogatory word and that’s that. People can argue, ifs and buts however the reality is that it should never have been used in the first place. Even if it was said in jest, the emotional impact on somebody called that word who feels as though he/she is trying to fit in can be enormous because they’re made to feel like an outsider. And YCCC are now facing the consequences of their diabolical response to what has unfolded. Hopefully truth will prevail
    and change shall come.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman View Post
    What makes me think that Azeem’s allegations are credible is that he has named Adil Rashid, Ajmal Shazad and Rana Naveed as all being present when those comments weee made. Rashid may not want to comment on it due to very much being part of the English set up right now. Will the others speak up about it? Would be interesting to hear what any of the other three have to say.
    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Rana Naved-ul-Hasan has confirmed to the media that he heard Michael Vaughan making racially insensitive comments to a group of Asian players at Yorkshire which refutes Vaughan's claims!

    Ab bolain Vaughan Sahib?
    This is exactly the point I was making in my earlier post. If Azeem was making it up, he wouldn’t name 3 other players who could verify those comments. Rana has just provided some categorical proof here - the guy has no reason to lie.

    Vaughan tried to undermine Azeem in his article by saying that Azeem was pursuing a financial claim against the board and therefore had a motive to lie. What about Rana then? He has no such motive. Nowhere to go now Mr Vaughan!

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    Quote Originally Posted by silentkiller187 View Post
    How many people have been legally charged or reprimanded in the UK for using the term Zimbo in comparison to P word?? Ofcourse ballance is going to say its racist its his only defence apart from banter
    Cool, woild you through your best friend under the bus because he called you pak! While drinking and having fun? Most likely as a joke?

    Azeem used to go out drinking with gary all the time... personally i wouldve excluded his name. The dude literally supported him in his worst times..

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    Vaughan hates Moeen Ali and rashid. Kills him to give them any compliments and always the first to attack if they have a bad game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman View Post
    This is exactly the point I was making in my earlier post. If Azeem was making it up, he wouldn’t name 3 other players who could verify those comments. Rana has just provided some categorical proof here - the guy has no reason to lie.

    Vaughan tried to undermine Azeem in his article by saying that Azeem was pursuing a financial claim against the board and therefore had a motive to lie. What about Rana then? He has no such motive. Nowhere to go now Mr Vaughan!
    Where are those 3 playera statements?? As of right now i dont see any official statment by anyone..

    Rana can say what he wants, he should go give his statement under oath.

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    Generations of British Pakistanis have been subjected to racist taunts of being called p*** or many older relatives have been subjected to P*** bashing....so sorry if we are emotional about! I find that Pakstani from outside the UK just don't get it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir-fraz View Post
    Cool, woild you through your best friend under the bus because he called you pak! While drinking and having fun? Most likely as a joke?

    Azeem used to go out drinking with gary all the time... personally i wouldve excluded his name. The dude literally supported him in his worst times..
    I wasn't there so I can't speculate on their relationship or what happened between them, what I can confirm however is no one has the right in the UK to call someone a p word as banter or otherwise and not expect some backlash from it.

    If I had a black friend and I called him an n word as banter and he was fine with it and another black person who we both didn't no heard it and got offended by it , It would still be considered racist...

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    YCCC Chairman Roger Hutton has resigned.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59172267

    He says he was unable to convince the Board of the institutional racism that exists at the club and calls on them to resign too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silentkiller187 View Post
    I wasn't there so I can't speculate on their relationship or what happened between them, what I can confirm however is no one has the right in the UK to call someone a p word as banter or otherwise and not expect some backlash from it.

    If I had a black friend and I called him an n word as banter and he was fine with it and another black person who we both didn't no heard it and got offended by it , It would still be considered racist...
    Dint use the hard R lmaoo, is this a law? Its a word at the end of the day and by all the Pakistani getting emotional over it is giving it more meaning then it should..

    And no its not even comparable to the N word.. we never went through slavery..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    YCCC Chairman Roger Hutton has resigned.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59172267

    He says he was unable to convince the Board of the institutional racism that exists at the club and calls on them to resign too.
    This waa a given, its not insitiutional, or systemic, get rid of the old brass and it will change... hopefully we wont see a quota system

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir-fraz View Post
    Dint use the hard R lmaoo, is this a law? Its a word at the end of the day and by all the Pakistani getting emotional over it is giving it more meaning then it should..

    And no its not even comparable to the N word.. we never went through slavery..
    Yes it is isn't as old as N word but does not negate the feelings of British Pakistanis who have at some point been called that.....and never in a nice way! I am not sure where you are based but for us it isn't just a word that we can get over!

  50. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritOf1903 View Post
    Root effectively kiboshed Rashid's test career...
    Rashid kiboshed Rashid’s test career by bowling a four-ball every test over.

    Let’s see some perspective here. Who was the last effective England leggie? Johnny Wardle in the fifties?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salma_T View Post
    Yes it is isn't as old as N word but does not negate the feelings of British Pakistanis who have at some point been called that.....and never in a nice way! I am not sure where you are based but for us it isn't just a word that we can get over!
    Did you guys sit on seperate busses, use seperate bathrooms? Etc..

    Its no where near conparable.. like i said pak! Is technically an abbreviation of pakistani..

    Its nit even on the same level, infact that giving it meaning and it will die off.. if you guys just ignore these idiots this wouldnt be a problem right now..

    Skin heads now know that the word emotionally triggers you an they will keep using it.

  52. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir-fraz View Post
    This waa a given, its not insitiutional, or systemic, get rid of the old brass and it will change... hopefully we wont see a quota system
    But that’s what institutional racism us - the boss who covers up the plea for help from the victim of racism rather than dealing with it.

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    Rana has corroborated that he said it. Looking at his history hard to believe he didn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Rashid kiboshed Rashid’s test career by bowling a four-ball every test over.

    Let’s see some perspective here. Who was the last effective England leggie? Johnny Wardle in the fifties?
    Lol yeah rashid was never good enough for tests.. now you will see everyone cry racism because they failed at their career

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    But that’s what institutional racism us - the boss who covers up the plea for help from the victim of racism rather than dealing with it.
    Institutional racism, also known as systemic racism, is a term that refers to a form of racism that is embedded in the laws and regulations of a society or an organization.

    No its not lolll
    Last edited by Sir-fraz; 5th November 2021 at 15:40.

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    So if it wasn't state sanctioned segregation it doesn't matter? Easier said when you are not subject to it. I remember as an 8 yr old hearing a about a family that was killed in a racist attack so don't say it is nothing!

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    A lot of people here clearly dont know the definition of systemic racism...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salma_T View Post
    So if it wasn't state sanctioned segregation it doesn't matter? Easier said when you are not subject to it. I remember as an 8 yr old hearing a about a family that was killed in a racist attack so don't say it is nothing!
    You are comparing apples to oranges.. how old are you first of all, for all i know you could 50 and when you were eight could be in the 80s..

    Times have changed. This is clearly a case of few induviduals being racist towards azeem. Hes crying he didnt get rhe chance to play because of his skin color. But its actually because he was never good enough

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    Oh cricket has huge systemic racism problem in the England. Another player from the 2000s who has also mentioned similar behaviour at Yorkshire!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salma_T View Post
    Oh cricket has huge systemic racism problem in the England. Another player from the 2000s who has also mentioned similar behaviour at Yorkshire!
    GREAT talent always makes it through regardless of the system. Money is money and ECB would like to make money..

    If there was a Great south asian player with immense talent he wouldve played for england by now.

    Fact is there hasnt been one...

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    Watch this video
    https://youtu.be/xdQ0_QK3nWM Nassar Husaain and Mike Atherton talking about the situation. There are many players who get sidelined.....talent alone isn't enough. How many times do the Asian guys have to prove themselves and one failure are they are booted out.
    Nasser Hussain was in and out of the side, as was Ramprakash yet a Hick regardless of his form stayed (your probably too young to young to remember).

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    Disappointing but not surprising. Does this make Vaughan an out and out active racist? No. Does it suggest an inherent built in racist attitude that is manifest by making subtle racist comments here and there? Yes. These kind of racists stay quiet generally but make comments behind your back. They will tell you one thing and say something different behind your back. There will be an underlying resentment that will raise its head now and then. This kind of racist is fairly common in the UK. They tend to hide their racism well. It seems as though Vaughan is a member of this club. Not surprised to be honest - there are millions of these types of racists in the UK.

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    Sir-Fraz are you british pakistani?

    Remember the slur is not only used against pakistani origin players but Indian, Bangladeshi, sri lankans and afghanis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silentkiller187 View Post
    This article does not relate to Vaughan's specific comment BUT is yet more evidence of a systemic environment of racism and a failure to deal with it. The fact that an experienced international cricketer had to put up with it, imagine what it must have been like for younger players.

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    Sir-fraz hasn't a clue what he's talking about. He understands nothing of the stuff my parents and to a lesser extent we British Asians went through. My father describes bash a P*** day during his school days. Asians would shudder at the thought of going to school. As to the situation in cricket, a few of my friends play in minor counties. Youth level is dominated by Asians but too many of those are discarded and not given contracts. There is a clear problem

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    Quote Originally Posted by Majestic_Inzi View Post
    Sir-Fraz are you british pakistani?

    Remember the slur is not only used against pakistani origin players but Indian, Bangladeshi, sri lankans and afghanis.
    No im from Canada. Grew up in a white town and delt with racism like twice maybe. Ive had a great experiance with all races tbh except asians, Only 27 still ya never know lol

    Scottish town may i add.

    Went to collage in a city, had all race of friends never had an issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir-fraz View Post
    Dint use the hard R lmaoo, is this a law? Its a word at the end of the day and by all the Pakistani getting emotional over it is giving it more meaning then it should..

    And no its not even comparable to the N word.. we never went through slavery..
    sorry i didnt get what you mean here.

    Calling someone a P word is an offence in UK law calling someone a zimbo is not, calling someone an N word is an offence, so they are comparable in some ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneManShow View Post
    Sir-fraz hasn't a clue what he's talking about. He understands nothing of the stuff my parents and to a lesser extent we British Asians went through. My father describes bash a P*** day during his school days. Asians would shudder at the thought of going to school. As to the situation in cricket, a few of my friends play in minor counties. Youth level is dominated by Asians but too many of those are discarded and not given contracts. There is a clear problem
    Im not from the UK

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    As a British Pakistani, I'm so glad this is happening. This will keep a lot of people in check in the near future, hopefully the effects of this last much much longer. And I also hope other sports and organisations look into such casual racism as well.

    A friend of mine was once called a Taliban by his work colleagues whom he was pretty friendly with. Being called Taliban wasnt as bad as when they asked him how did his terrorist training go after his visit from Pakistan. This was the end of such friendship and he took action against them. There are times when you do let causal racism slip, but some people fail to realise that they other person has crossed the line. Casual racism is very common in the UK and most guys let it slip just because they're friends or think it's a friendly banter. But being called a Taliban, P..ki or Terrorist isn't a friendly banter whatsoever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silentkiller187 View Post
    sorry i didnt get what you mean here.

    Calling someone a P word is an offence in UK law calling someone a zimbo is not, calling someone an N word is an offence, so they are comparable in some ways.
    That was a joke bro... mam humor has died.. dont use the hard R meaning say nikka and not nikker loll

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    Not surprised at all with recent findings. The fact is racism is deeply rooted in society, eventually it does present it's ugly head in other settings, be it sport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaddy86 View Post
    As a British Pakistani, I'm so glad this is happening. This will keep a lot of people in check in the near future, hopefully the effects of this last much much longer. And I also hope other sports and organisations look into such casual racism as well.

    A friend of mine was once called a Taliban by his work colleagues whom he was pretty friendly with. Being called Taliban wasnt as bad as when they asked him how did his terrorist training go after his visit from Pakistan. This was the end of such friendship and he took action against them. There are times when you do let causal racism slip, but some people fail to realise that they other person has crossed the line. Casual racism is very common in the UK and most guys let it slip just because they're friends or think it's a friendly banter. But being called a Taliban, P..ki or Terrorist isn't a friendly banter whatsoever.
    This is a case of where the gores though they were friends but were work collegues.. need to distinguish relationships.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir-fraz View Post
    Institutional racism, also known as systemic racism, is a term that refers to a form of racism that is embedded in the laws and regulations of a society or an organization.
    That would be something like apartheid in SA, or Jim Crow in the USA.

    Institutional racism is where an organisation allows discrimination in its ranks and covers up or does nothing to rectify. For example, the UK Labour Party was found guilty by the Equality and Human Rights Commission of harassment of and direct discrimination against Jewish members, under the Equality Act 2010.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    That would be something like apartheid in SA, or Jim Crow in the USA.

    Institutional racism is where an organisation allows discrimination in its ranks and covers up or does nothing to rectify. For example, the UK Labour Party was found guilty by the Equality and Human Rights Commission of harassment of and direct discrimination against Jewish members, under the Equality Act 2010.
    I literally gave you the definition.. dont chnage it to suit you point of view.

    Yoi can blame an organization or system based of certain induviduals decision making and point of view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silentkiller187 View Post
    ooo my bad, that one went right over my head, seems like we have different takes on humour aswell as racism
    Well if ur from the UK u probably faced more racism then me, im from Canada.

    My parents came to thw same town i grew up in and faced racism, and left. But still came back to the same town to raise their kids. Because they knew not all the residents were racist.
    Town was filled with scotts and irish
    Jusr a few bad apples, personally as i grew up i faced little or no racism has 2 encounters which were solved, one by fist the other by the person apologizing years later.

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    Sir-Fraz

    Bro - I understand your sentiments but trust me if you are not from the UK, you will have no understanding of the culture of racism in this country. Every country is different and the type of racism you see in Canada will be different. The colonial history of the British plays a part in the ineherent built in racism of a lot of people here. Let me stress that this does not mean every Brit is racist! Far from it. In fact, in most inner cities, racism has disappeared due to the large volume of Asians. However, I assure you, racism is very much prevalent in the UK. The BNP has a large membership and Northern towns/cities like Stoke, Burnley, Oldham are pretty racist areas. These days, racism isn't expressed so much by physical violence. However, racism in all areas of employment is very much around. For example, Asian Doctors find it harder to get consultant roles, asians find it harder to get promotions etc. This is by NO means generic so please don't quoye exceptions. There are enough incidents to make it a concern.

  77. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Googly View Post
    Sir-Fraz

    Bro - I understand your sentiments but trust me if you are not from the UK, you will have no understanding of the culture of racism in this country. Every country is different and the type of racism you see in Canada will be different. The colonial history of the British plays a part in the ineherent built in racism of a lot of people here. Let me stress that this does not mean every Brit is racist! Far from it. In fact, in most inner cities, racism has disappeared due to the large volume of Asians. However, I assure you, racism is very much prevalent in the UK. The BNP has a large membership and Northern towns/cities like Stoke, Burnley, Oldham are pretty racist areas. These days, racism isn't expressed so much by physical violence. However, racism in all areas of employment is very much around. For example, Asian Doctors find it harder to get consultant roles, asians find it harder to get promotions etc. This is by NO means generic so please don't quoye exceptions. There are enough incidents to make it a concern.
    I see your point of view. Move to Canada lmao, bigger houses, more space, better life, better weather. Pay the same taxes haha

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    I like living in the UK! I've been here all my life and can't complain. If you work hard, you can rise above any issues. I did say, racism is not generic. But it is there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mastimasti View Post
    This article does not relate to Vaughan's specific comment BUT is yet more evidence of a systemic environment of racism and a failure to deal with it. The fact that an experienced international cricketer had to put up with it, imagine what it must have been like for younger players.
    Sorry i actually linked the wrong article, this is the correct one.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ni-player.html

  80. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir-fraz View Post
    I literally gave you the definition.. dont chnage it to suit you point of view.

    Yoi can blame an organization or system based of certain induviduals decision making and point of view.
    No, you gave me your misunderstanding.

    I’m British and I know what institutional racism means in Britain.

    For example - black women are four times more likely to die in childbirth than white women. The health care procedures are identical for all women. Yet the discrepancy in outcome exists. That is an example of institutional racism in service provision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Rana Naved-ul-Hasan has confirmed to the media that he heard Michael Vaughan making racially insensitive comments to a group of Asian players at Yorkshire which refutes Vaughan's claims!

    Ab bolain Vaughan Sahib?
    I don’t see how Vaughan’s media career can continue.

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