Virat Kohli steps down as India Test Captain - Page 2


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  1. #81
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    Most Tests as Indian captain - (68)
    Best win/loss ratio as Indian Test captain
    Best win percentage as Indian Test captain (7 Tests or more)
    Most runs by an Indian captain in Tests (5864)
    Most 100s by an Indian captain in Tests (20)
    Most double hundreds by a captain in Tests (7)
    Highest batting average by an Indian captain in Tests (54.80)



  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cover Drive Six View Post
    This recognition is more than enough, nothing else required.

  3. #83
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    Easily India's best red ball skipper. Steamrolled everyone at home while competing pretty much in every away series.

    With this goes whatever dominance era India had. Will be tough to remain top


    The only disability in life is a bad attitude. -Scott Hamilton

  4. #84
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    The duration of test cricket and the fast bowling attack that he built gave him enough leeway to make up for the horrendous selections and decisions that dotted his captaincy career.

    When Kohli took over from Dhoni, I remember a fast bowler, Umesh perhaps, saying Virat understood them better and was able to connect in a way that inspired them.

    I have been waiting for years for Kohli to be removed from white-ball captaincy. I wanted him out of tests too, but not as badly, because of the manic intensity he played 5 days with. That insanity has given Indian cricket some of its best and funniest (at the expense of the opposition) moments.

    As successful as he was, he eventually swallowed himself, and with a wife that encouraged his ego, made the massive mistake of leaving Australia. It's been a matter of time since then.

    But I still feel a tinge of sadness unlike when he was removed from white-ball captaincy.

    This is the time though to salute his era.

  5. #85
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    Step down before they could disgrace you even further

    Smart move Kohli

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Most Tests as Indian captain - (68)
    Best win/loss ratio as Indian Test captain
    Best win percentage as Indian Test captain (7 Tests or more)
    Most runs by an Indian captain in Tests (5864)
    Most 100s by an Indian captain in Tests (20)
    Most double hundreds by a captain in Tests (7)
    Highest batting average by an Indian captain in Tests (54.80)
    I am pretty sure that most of those figures are true for entire Asia, not just India.

    If we take all world then Kohli may still figure among the top 5.

    A huge loss for the Indian team. All good things come to an end. A captain having the greatest test record from Asia and one of the best in world history calls it a day.

    He totally changed the pace bowling unit by fully backing them. Many fans will pick and choose to see which tests could have won if only so and so would have played, but that's in hindsight and still a guess. As a captain, Kohli has a phenomenal record.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  7. #87
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    End of an era of King Kohli . Sad to see the clashes of egos in subcontinents.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saurav View Post
    Easily India's best red ball skipper. Steamrolled everyone at home while competing pretty much in every away series.

    With this goes whatever dominance era India had. Will be tough to remain top
    India will be back to only being great at home if the pace unit is not producing. The pace unit was pretty much due to Kohli.

    Well, It will be like all other teams then. Good at home and not able to compete away. Hopefully, some other team in world cricket comes up to produce fascinating contests like Indians produced in the last few years when playing away. Every series you could have watched and almost be guaranteed that it will be a great series. Not Indian home series, because they dominate others at home too much.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  9. #89
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    Great run as captain. Very dominant and successful. Well done and good luck to the upcoming years as a player.

  10. #90
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    Great test captain

  11. #91
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    ----------------------------------------------------

    W/L of all teams Since 2016, when playing Away

    Ind: 1.2
    ...
    ...
    ...
    Aus : 0.6
    Pak : 0.6
    Eng : 0.5
    SA: 0.5
    NZ : 0.4

    One stand-out team which made world cricket interesting because they could go and play well in all conditions. Everyone else has been hovering around 0.5. Hope is that some other teams take over to keep cricket interesting for away tours.

    ----------------------


    Home record since 2016,


    Ind : 11.5
    ..
    ...
    ..
    ...
    ...
    NZ 4.5
    Aus 3.3
    SA 2.3
    Eng 1.7
    SL 1.1

    The gap here is multiple times than away record.

    -----------------------

    What a phenomenal run by the Indian team under Kohli. End of an era and I did not expect that Kohli will call it a day so soon.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  12. #92
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    Kohli had carte blanche when the BCCI was administered by the COA. The election of Ganguly and Shah etc was a power play by the BCCI to return to power.

    It was only a matter of time before the administrators turned to the cricket team itself. Ganguly and Shah are not plaint people and have their own vision. It's no coincidence that the rumours really took off at that point.

    Kohli was to me one of the great captains in cricket history and he will be missed. I hope the dominant batter is back soon.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd View Post
    Kohli had carte blanche when the BCCI was administered by the COA. The election of Ganguly and Shah etc was a power play by the BCCI to return to power.

    It was only a matter of time before the administrators turned to the cricket team itself. Ganguly and Shah are not plaint people and have their own vision. It's no coincidence that the rumours really took off at that point.

    Kohli was to me one of the great captains in cricket history and he will be missed. I hope the dominant batter is back soon.
    No one takes on the BCCI and wins, not even the most successful Indian Test Captain in history.

    It's an emotional decision taken in the heat of the moment, the defeat against South Africa is too raw at the moment. Think he was paranoid he'd be sacked by the BCCI once he returns to India, so pre-empted that.

    I stand by my view that their treatment of Kohli is self-sabotage by the BCCI. Rationally, India has no real succession plan for the Test captaincy.

  14. #94
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    Think he probably got an earful from higher ups of BCCI (probably Ganguly) after his stump shouting behavior in the previous test. Could have been told to step down as captain or he chose to call it a day before things could get even worse.

    Plus I don't think him and Dravid combo could have worked well going forward. Dravid is someone who supports very little chirps and is more of the type of "talk less and do more" type of guy.

    Nevertheless I have always liked Kohli. He never had any problem with Pak team and always treated our players well. Plus him defending Shami after he got abuse for his religion was classy and clearly showed how he doesn't think like others.

    Hopefully he can regain some form and start scoring hundreds again (not against Pak )

    Going forward, I think Dravid will inculcate a less chirpy approach in the team. Would be interesting to see what the fast bowling strategy Indian team will take. Growing a fast bowling culture in Indian team is probably Kohli's biggest legacy as a captain.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    For me, the biggest alarm was that Pant and Siraj are both already moaning and whining like Kohli when they should let their skills do the talking.

    Itís time for Pujara, Rahane, Ashwin, Jadeja Umesh Yadav and Ishant to be replaced by a younger generation.

    But two of the younger generation are already clearly damaged by the experience of having been led by Captain Toddler.

    The BCCI had to get rid of Kohli before he could further damage the younger players.
    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    He actually won a series in Aus and leads a series 2-1 in Eng, along with whitewashing SriLanka, West indies etc.
    That's more than what any Asian captain ever achieved.

    Kohli will retire as the greatest test captain from Asia. The record says it all.
    West Indies and SriLanka were a nothing team compare to India. In Australia Rahane won the match as a captain.

  16. #96
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    Ganguly and Dravid no doubt breathing a sigh of relief that he's stepped down as Test skipper and they haven't had to boot him out.

    Behind the scenes probably lots going on and Kohli has probably realised that he wasn't going to win any power struggle and that his days were numbered.

    It will be interesting to see how much longer he carries on playing Test cricket.



  17. #97
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    ICC to BCCI - Sir, that reaction after Elgar DRS is too big to brush under carpet. We've to take some action against captain.

    BCCI - hmmm, let us look into it.

    Kohli, you've to apologise for your reaction and on behalf of entire team for that DRS thing. Plus a ban of maybe one match.

    Captain - But you saw what they did.

    BCCI - yes, but that speaking into stumps microphone and accusing broadcasters of cheating on air can't be tolerated. You've to accept that your reaction was not a good example as leader.

    Captain - No way, I am doing that.

    BCCI - okay, let us think about it. we'll get back to you.

    Kohli on social media - I quit as captain.

    (Keep all 6 month relationship between board and captain in mind.)

    Note - it's all my assumption.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Ganguly and Dravid no doubt breathing a sigh of relief that he's stepped down as Test skipper and they haven't had to boot him out.

    Behind the scenes probably lots going on and Kohli has probably realised that he wasn't going to win any power struggle and that his days were numbered.

    It will be interesting to see how much longer he carries on playing Test cricket.
    South Africa has ended Test captaincy careers of some notable cricketers

    Kohli
    Steven Smith
    Naseer Hussain
    Andy Strauss
    Sachin Tendulkar
    And our hero of 05 Michael Vaughan

  19. #99
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    Really sad to see him go. Kohli was the typical fighting street brat - competitive to the core and aggressive in his pursuit of his goals. Unfortunately, while this helped in his game and somewhat in his captaincy, it didn't do his behaviour or his diplomatic sense any good. A captain is more than an aggressive match winner, he is also the representative of the country he plays for and is expected to behave accordingly. Making faces, doing silly celebrations, sledging and shouting into stump mikes are not the kind of behaviour one would like to see in a captain.
    I commend BCCI for standing up and putting Kohli in his place. It's the new BCCI under Ganguly the super bully who can show any other bully where the line is.

    I also hope Kohli continues to wield his magic bat for India. With the captaincy gone, he can now focus on his cricket.
    Last edited by gani999; 15th January 2022 at 21:45.

  20. #100
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    He is not the best test captain in India let alone Asia. Great batsman for certain.

  21. #101
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  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan View Post
    He is not the best test captain in India let alone Asia. Great batsman for certain.
    Who is best asian captain in tests?

  23. #103
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    The era of Virat Kohli as India captain is over across all formats after the 33-year-old’s announcement that he is stepping down as Test skipper.

    Kohli’s seven-year stint as India’s Test captain may have ended with a series defeat in South Africa, but his spell in charge yielded historically successful results.

    No player in history has more Test caps as India captain than Kohli’s 68, while his 40 wins as captain is the most of any Indian Test player. Those 40 wins also make Kohli the fourth most successful captain in Test history, behind only Graeme Smith, Ricky Ponting and Steve Waugh.

    Kohli’s captaincy era began when he deputised for MS Dhoni in the opening Test of the series away in Australia in 2014, a match that India lost by 48 runs despite centuries in both innings from their young stand-in skipper.

    And Kohli took over the reins permanently from Dhoni for the fourth and final Test of the series, where his first-innings 147 saw him become the first batter in men’s Test history to score three centuries in their first three innings as Test captain. Kohli’s 692 runs in that four-Test series loss are still the most ever by an Indian batter in a series in Australia.

    Since the end of that series in Australia in 2014/15, Kohli turned India into the dominant force in world Test cricket, losing just five of 24 Test series, including the one-off ICC World Test Championship Final in 2021, and the most recent series in South Africa.

    During that period Kohli led India to the top of the ICC Test Rankings, a spot which the team held for 42 consecutive months from October 2016 through to March 2020.

    At home India won all 11 Test series under Kohli’s stewardship, while away from home he oversaw India's first ever series win in Australia in 2018/19.

    Kohli also took India to the brink of a series win in England in 2021, with his side leading 2-1 with one postponed Test still to play, and captained India to the final of the inaugural ICC World Test Championship.

    Kohli also excelled as a batter while captain, scoring 20 of his 27 Test centuries while leading the team, the most of any India captain in history.

    As Test leader, he scored 5864 runs in 68 matches at an average of 54.80. And at home those figures are even more eye-catching, with Kohli racking up 2907 runs in 31 Tests in India at an average of 67.60, including 10 Test centuries.

    Kohli was also a significant contributor with the bat while Test captain outside India as well, scoring centuries and averaging comfortably over 40 in Australia, England, South Africa, Sri Lanka and the West Indies.

    Virat Kohli celebrates an ODI century against Australia in 2019Virat Kohli celebrates an ODI century against Australia in 2019
    With the white ball, Kohli also excelled as India captain despite a lack of silverware during his tenure, with defeats in the semi-final of the 2019 World Cup and the final of the 2017 Champions Trophy leaving India’s men without an international tournament win since 2013.

    As ODI captain Kolhi won 65 of his 95 matches, the highest win percentage of any Indian captain to have led the team for more than 10 matches. During that period India won 15 of their 19 ODI series.

    And with the bat, Kohli was remarkable during his time as ODI captain, hitting 5449 runs at an extraordinary average of 72.65 with 21 centuries.

    Only Ricky Ponting has scored more centuries as a captain in ODI cricket, while Kohli’s average is by far the highest from a captain in the history of the sport, with the next best being AB de Villiers for South Africa with 63.94.

    Kohli also performed well as captain in the shortest format of the international game, losing just two of the 17 T20I series during his time in charge, although the failure to progress from the group stage at the most recent ICC Men’s T20I World Cup saw his tenure end on a disappointing note.

    His individual record as India’s T20I captain saw him score 1570 runs in 50 matches at an average of 47.57. Only Kane Williamson and Aaron Finch have scored more runs as an international T20 captain, with both doing so from a larger number of innings at a significantly lower average.

    Having already stepped down as T20I captain in September 2021 and then being replaced as ODI captain in December 2021, Kohli’s decision to hand over the Test captaincy brings to an end an era in Indian cricket that will go down in history as one of the most successful of all time.

    https://www.icc-cricket.com/news/2448901


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  24. #104
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    New Delhi, Chronology of Virat Kohli Quitting Test captaincy: Virat Kohli stepping down as the Test captain for India might have come as a shock to many all around the around but the reality is, he had prepared himself quite in advance to relinquish the Test captaincy as well. Kohli first spoke to India head coach Rahul Dravid about his decision to quit Test captaincy, following which he called up BCCI secretary Jay Shah to inform him about his decision.

    According to a report published by Aajtak, after the Test series loss at Cape Town on Friday (January 14), Kohli caught up with Dravid and both of them had a long discussion that had nothing to do with the series loss. It is learned that Kohli spoke at length with Dravid and informed him about his decision to quit Test captaincy without letting his team members know about the decision. Also Read - KL Rahul Leads Race To Become India's Next Test Captain After Virat Kohli's Resignation


    Call to Jay Shah

    After informing Dravid about it, Kohli called up BCCI secretary Jay Shah to let him know about his decision and according to the report, Shah accepted his decision, after which Kohli took to social media and formally announced his decision to relinquish Test captaincy.


    Treasurer Arun Dhumal was kept in the loop as well

    BCCI treasurer Arun Dhumal was also kept in the loop who said that the board has accepted his decision to quit. He further went on to add that during the time Kohli decided to quit T20 captaincy, he was requested to stay on till the 50-over World Cup but by then he had already made up his mind. Dhumal concluded by saying that Kohli will go down in the history as the most Test successful Test captain.


    Virat Kohli Test Captaincy Record

    Virat Kohli will go down as the most successful Test captain ever for India, having won 40 out of 68 Test matches that he captained, leaving behind MS Dhoni, who won 27 out of 60 matches and Sourav Ganguly, who won 21 out of 49 matches that he captained.

    https://www.india.com/sports/what-ha...88013-5188013/


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  25. #105
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    Fantastic captain for India. The dicipline he instilled in to their fitness and self belief is why they've become a top side.

  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan View Post
    He is not the best test captain in India let alone Asia. Great batsman for certain.
    Who is it then ?


    ...

  27. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanos View Post
    ICC to BCCI - Sir, that reaction after Elgar DRS is too big to brush under carpet. We've to take some action against captain.

    BCCI - hmmm, let us look into it.

    Kohli, you've to apologise for your reaction and on behalf of entire team for that DRS thing. Plus a ban of maybe one match.

    Captain - But you saw what they did.

    BCCI - yes, but that speaking into stumps microphone and accusing broadcasters of cheating on air can't be tolerated. You've to accept that your reaction was not a good example as leader.

    Captain - No way, I am doing that.

    BCCI - okay, let us think about it. we'll get back to you.

    Kohli on social media - I quit as captain.

    (Keep all 6 month relationship between board and captain in mind.)

    Note - it's all my assumption.
    Glad you clarified.


    The only disability in life is a bad attitude. -Scott Hamilton

  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed216 View Post
    His legacy also includes destroying the Indian middle order in all formats
    This. Have said this time and again. Never ever in our history, our middle order is as weak.

    However, kudos to him for promoting fast bowling culture in India.

  29. #109
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    We'll also miss his ruthless nature in home tests. We have always been dominant at home but never been as ruthless as we were under Kohli.

  30. #110
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    It was a Twitter message on September 16 when he informed the world about his decision to quit T20 captaincy, keen to focus all his energies on Test cricket and ODI format keeping the 2023 World Cup in mind.

    Exactly, one day short of four months, the 33-year-old has now joined the list of former India captains, having announced his decision of stepping down for the second time, this time from the traditional format.

    In between, he was sacked from the 50-over format, much to his dismay and from there started his "Journey to the Centre of Earth" from the "Top of the World", where he spent at least six and half year of his seven-year captaincy tenure.

    Rohit Sharma set to be new Test captain

    Rohit Sharma was the designated Test vice-captain for the tour of South Africa and there won't be any change to that hierarchy that BCCI has set in place. By natural progression, if all goes well and he is fit, Rohit Sharma will be leading India in Test match cricket with KL Rahul being his deputy.

    The home series against Sri Lanka will be first assignment for Rohit.

    However, with two World Cups in two years and so much of cricket, Rahul could be seen leading the team from time to time as and when Rohit takes a break as a part of workload management.

    Where did it go wrong for Virat?

    His relations with the BCCI having reached its lowest ebb, it can be safely concluded that Kohli has "retired hurt", the decision only accentuated by a shock defeat against the weakest South African Test side in recent times.

    If BCCI sources are to be believed, there has been no prior discussions with any of the top brass as he had burnt his bridges in the pre-departure press conference that became his undoing.

    It was his and his decision alone. The establishment for once had no inclination to stop him from stepping down. However, before putting out a formal statement, he had informed the BCCI biggies that he is tired.

    Rahul Dravid is creating a succession plan and the roadmap ahead. This team has moved beyond Virat Kohli - The Leader. It will now only be about Virat Kohli-The Batter.

    So it wasn't surprising at all when BCCI secretary Jay Shah congratulated Kohli on his decision, which was in one way, an immediate acceptance of his resignation.

    "Congratulations to imVkohli on a tremendous tenure as TeamIndia captain. Virat turned the team into a ruthless fit unit that performed admirably both in India and away. The Test wins in Australia & England have been special," Shah tweeted.

    The series defeat and lack of runs have also pushed him to a corner and with all his support system in and outside the team gone, one of the world's finest batters had lost the zeal.

    But how did it happen? Here's the back story.

    Quitting T20 captaincy and an insinuation

    When Kohli had decided to quit T20 captaincy, just prior to that, he had a meeting with BCCI president Sourav Ganguly, secretary Jay Shah, five selectors. Even Rohit Sharma was present in that meeting.

    Kohli referred to this "very meeting" where he had expressed his desire to quit T20 captaincy and which he said was accepted well by everyone.

    And this is the same meeting which Ganguly had referred to when he said that he had requested Kohli to stay back as captain.

    In between what no one spoke about was how Kohli had come with a proposal of having KL Rahul as his deputy in ODIs while Rohit remained captain in only T20 format.

    That proposal was immediately shot down as it would have meant Rohit would have missed the ODI captaincy despite being a deserving candidate for the job.

    In this back-drop, Kohli had miscalculated one aspect. He never expected that the BCCI would sack him from ODI captaincy on the pretext of "too much leadership".

    Someone who has played all his cricket under MS Dhoni, a man who has lived and left on his own terms, Kohli found the sacking difficult to digest.

    Not known to pull his punches, he made a calculated insinuation at BCCI president Ganguly, accusing the former stalwart of lying (without naming) that the fomer skipper had asked to him stay back as T20 captain till the World Cup. That was his first brush with the establishment.

    Having ended with a bloody nose, BCCI waited and then unleashed its chairman of selectors Chetan Sharma to defend the establishment.

    The former pacer on his part completely contradicted Kohli, making it a case of "your word versus mine".

    Kohli wasn't a fool not to read the writing on the wall when he would have learnt that BCCI has thrown a counter-punch on a 31st night when the team was celebrating.

    He knew that he needed to win the Test series in order to hold his ground.

    Respect for batter but for captain?

    Ask any of his teammates, Virat Kohli the batter has the highest respect for his heady achievements and the manic consistency but there was a point between 2017-19 when Committee of Administrators was in power and the Indian skipper with coach Ravi Shastri by his side had the carte blanche as far as his team building was concerned.

    Yes, there were whsipers of "lack of communication," players at times "didn't feel secure enough" and those who were struggling for form weren't given "an arm of assurance".

    Somehow, the batter Kohli earned a lot of respect but leader Kohli stood in a 'Lonely Planet' and unlike an Imran Khan, who had complete devotion from his team, Kohli perhaps found himself in a tight corner.

    When Jasprit Bumrah on the second day's end was asked how much has been captain Virat Kohli's hand in his development, the pacer had replied: "A bowler's development also depends on his own hard work". A simple line but said a lot.

    Microphone chatter and jaded final press meet

    Virat Kohli won't be seen in a press meet for the Indian team in near future. That's a certainty. He looked jaded, tired and spent on Friday when he came for the media interaction.

    The answer to a very valid and pointed question on losing focus due to unnecessary stump-mic chatter was a more a gibberish one where he only knew what he was trying to explain.

    In his farewell note, there wasn't any thank you note for Rahul Dravid, which he had reserved for Ravi Shastri. Perhaps, he hadn't struck that chord yet.

    All captains have a shelf life and better placed are those who judge earlier that it's time to leave. Kohli judged it but only after damage was done.

    https://www.outlookindia.com/website...ke-over/409806


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  31. #111
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    Great batsman but Good riddance as captain. His antics in the SA Test were despicable and for that alone should have been fired from his job so good he jumped himself.


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  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Great batsman but Good riddance as captain. His antics in the SA Test were despicable and for that alone should have been fired from his job so good he jumped himself.
    I have seen more 12 years olds more mature then him.

  33. #113
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    Lived by the sword, retired by the sword. His passion appeared anger to others. BCCI is like a large corporate where passion is dumbed down. No place for a Punjabi

  34. #114
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    Love him or hate him, it was because of him India has produced many aggressive players who aren't scared to go head to head with big names around the world. Not to mention the best Test captain (Win/Loss record) India has seen, regardless of his onfield antics. Unfortunately, as he said, everything must come to an end.

    Now that he is relinquished from all captaincy duties, hopefully, he will go on to break Sachin's 100 Hundred records and get his batting grove on.

  35. #115
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    He seemed mentally disturbed by the end of it and his performance with the bat was very poor over recent years. Recent reports indicated that he wanted to wind down and spend time with his family, so his heart probably wasn't in it, despite his childish 'aggression'

    Interestingly he leaves without winning a series in England as captain and also didn't really contribute to the recent series in Australia.

    I don't think he has any ICC trophies either.

    So really he has won one noteable series in Australia.

    Great player though, perhaps one of the best

  36. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    Yeah right.
    He will continue as a batsman and will end up with 10k runs in test.
    He is no Sachin. Let him cross 9000 runs first. It will be interesting to see Kohli play under Rohit's captaincy.

  37. #117
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    Has he resigned from his IPL team as well?

  38. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    End of an incredible era.

    The greatest Asian Test captain of all time. 40 wins and established a fast bowling culture in India. Built the greatest Asian Test team of all time.

    All good things must come to an end. He could have easily overtaken G. Smith as the most prolific captain of all time and could have even become the first captain to register 60 wins, but he made a selfless decision because it is clear that BCCI wants to start a new era.

    It will be interesting to see who takes over. They may not want to burden Rohit with all-format captaincy especially at this stage and age of his career.

    KL Rahul seems the most likely candidate, or maybe they can take a left-field decision and appoint Ashwin as a short-term skipper.

    He is certainly more than intelligent enough to do justice to the role.

    It is a shame for Kohli that he never got to captain against Pakistan in his tenure thanks to petty geopolitics; would have easily surpassed G. Smith in terms of numbers of wins.
    I don't think he's done anywhere near enough to be the GOAT Asian Test captain when you consider the following:

    - Yet to beat SA in SA
    - Yet to beat NZ in NZ
    - Yet to beat England in England (the last series still hasn't been completed)
    - Yet to beat Australia in Australia with their full strength team. Rahane was captain for all those tests that India won during the 3-1 win. In the test where India got bowled out for 36, which they went on to lose, Kohli was captain.
    - Lost the WTC final

    I believe with the current Indian bowling attack, the likes of Ganguly, Miandad, Imran Khan, Dravid and possibly Dhoni as captain may have fared better.

    Kohli is a good captain and one of the top 5 batsmen of all time but he falls wall short of being the GOAT Asian Test captain.

  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    I don't think he's done anywhere near enough to be the GOAT Asian Test captain when you consider the following:

    - Yet to beat SA in SA
    - Yet to beat NZ in NZ
    - Yet to beat England in England (the last series still hasn't been completed)
    - Yet to beat Australia in Australia with their full strength team. Rahane was captain for all those tests that India won during the 3-1 win. In the test where India got bowled out for 36, which they went on to lose, Kohli was captain.
    - Lost the WTC final

    I believe with the current Indian bowling attack, the likes of Ganguly, Miandad, Imran Khan, Dravid and possibly Dhoni as captain may have fared better.

    Kohli is a good captain and one of the top 5 batsmen of all time but he falls wall short of being the GOAT Asian Test captain.
    There is no GOAT Asian Test captain as of yet.
    The one who will win Away Test Series in single calender cycle (4year) period in

    New zealand, South Africa, England, Australia, West Indies will be regarded as GOAT Asian Test Captain.

    Had Imran Khan won Away Test Series in Australia during 1989/90 Tour, he would have been an obvious candidate but his team surrendered badly against an Australian team which was thrashed by West Undies at Home in 1988. Imran never faced South Africa in Tests. However his 1-1 away draw at West indies was good enough.

    I think GOAT Asian captain is yet to be born or may be still in teens.

  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarwar89 View Post
    There is no GOAT Asian Test captain as of yet.
    The one who will win Away Test Series in single calender cycle (4year) period in

    New zealand, South Africa, England, Australia, West Indies will be regarded as GOAT Asian Test Captain.

    Had Imran Khan won Away Test Series in Australia during 1989/90 Tour, he would have been an obvious candidate but his team surrendered badly against an Australian team which was thrashed by West Undies at Home in 1988. Imran never faced South Africa in Tests. However his 1-1 away draw at West indies was good enough.

    I think GOAT Asian captain is yet to be born or may be still in teens.
    LOL, you will pick someone who has done the best so far. Clearly, it's Kohli's team by some margin. It's not the fault of Kohli's team that Asia has not produced ATG teams.

    IK rarely won tests outside Asia. It's like 1 or 2 tests outside Asia in his entire career as a captain. The old era not having results is a lame excuse. More than 50% of tests had result in 80s.


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  41. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarwar89 View Post
    The one who will win Away Test Series in single calender cycle (4year) period in

    New zealand, South Africa, England, Australia, West Indies will be regarded as GOAT Asian Test Captain.
    Do we even have a situation where Asian teams play all these teams in 4 years cycle?


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  42. #122
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    Away W/L of all teams in 80s,

    WI - 3.5
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    Aus/NZ/Pak - 0.5
    Eng - 0.4
    Ind - 0.25

    -----------------------------------

    That kind of record only happens with ATG teams. Very good teams in any era will have W/L of above 1 when playing away.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  43. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Do we even have a situation where Asian teams play all these teams in 4 years cycle?
    Kohli ? No he lost twice in South Africa and lost in England 2018 and whitewashed in Nzl

    He is not even in league. It is about winning test series only. Imran won test series in India and England. His misfortune was he could not do the job in Australia and drew in nzl. So he is out of contention as well.

    As i said, there is no ATG Asian team as of yet.

  44. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Do we even have a situation where Asian teams play all these teams in 4 years cycle?
    Ofcourse
    Pakistan toured Australia in 2016 winter and Nzl winter of 2016 ( whitewashed). Tourned West indies in Spring of 2017 (won) toured England summer of 2016 ( draw) and toured South Africa in 2018 winter early 2019. ( whitewashed) so yes cycle is always there.

  45. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarwar89 View Post
    Kohli ? No he lost twice in South Africa and lost in England 2018 and whitewashed in Nzl

    He is not even in league. It is about winning test series only. Imran won test series in India and England. His misfortune was he could not do the job in Australia and drew in nzl. So he is out of contention as well.

    As i said, there is no ATG Asian team as of yet.
    Misfortune? lol. IK had another misfortune to draw a series against the minnow of his time. SL had a W/L of 0.1 in 80s and IK drew test series against SL.

    After all said and done, that's why when you look at the retrospective ICC rating calculated based on the current system, IK's team has a peak rating of 112-113. Top-class teams maintain ratings of 120+ for long period based on actual results. SA/Ind/WI/AUs etc have done it.

    A team maintaining rank one for 4-5 years
    A team having outstanding W/L home and away. No one is even close.
    A team maintaining 120+ ratings for long periods.

    Yes, there has been only one team in Aisa that's done all of that and that's Kohli's team. There is no competition there. Yes, if you are waiting for teams like great WI or Aus, the wait is still on.

    Clearly the best Asian team - Kohli's team
    ATG Asian team - No yet. It may not even happen.


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  46. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarwar89 View Post
    Ofcourse
    Pakistan toured Australia in 2016 winter and Nzl winter of 2016 ( whitewashed). Tourned West indies in Spring of 2017 (won) toured England summer of 2016 ( draw) and toured South Africa in 2018 winter early 2019. ( whitewashed) so yes cycle is always there.
    It's great if all teams get a chance to tour all countries in 4 years. It does not happen though. For example, Aus has not played in India or in NZ in the last 4 years. In Asian teams, SL has not played in Eng in 4 years.

    So if the criterion is GOAT team has to play and win in all major countries then it will never happen. Heck forget about winning in 4 years, WI did not win in NZ in the entire 80s. Should WI be removed?

    A great team simply has to win a lot more than they lost.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  47. #127
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    Must have been a tough call. He would have surely liked to keep charge of one format at least.

    Purely playing as a batsmen, letís see hopefully we will still see him at International arena as there arenít many Superstars around in the sport like him.

  48. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    It's great if all teams get a chance to tour all countries in 4 years. It does not happen though. For example, Aus has not played in India or in NZ in the last 4 years. In Asian teams, SL has not played in Eng in 4 years.

    So if the criterion is GOAT team has to play and win in all major countries then it will never happen. Heck forget about winning in 4 years, WI did not win in NZ in the entire 80s. Should WI be removed?

    A great team simply has to win a lot more than they lost.
    But West Indies did win Away Test series in New zealand in 1994. And they did not lose any test series home/away from 1980-1995. Yes they did not beat kiwiz in 1980ís but did not lose as well to them.

    Unlike Steven Waughís Aussies who lost test series in sri lanka 1999, india 2001. Or kohli losing to Proteas 2018/2022.

    As per current stats West indies is the greatest.
    Now more test fixtures happen so
    Possibility of playing these nations in 4 year cycle is definitely possible. Back in 1980ís West indies only toured new zealand once. That does bot happen anymore.

    ATG tag is not easy to earn. People tend to use it very easily. ATG means in human history.

    So far No Asian team is even near to ATG tag.

    For example Pakistan hockey team won World cup in 1978, won champions trophy 1978,80, won Hockey world cup 1982 (again) and won olympic Gold medal as well 1984, plus Asian hockey games as well 1982.83ÖÖ.. niw that is what you call ATG.

    Or their earlier version who won olympic hockey gold medal 1968 then ended up winning world cup in spain 1971.

    As i said ATG is a very rare occurance and such things happen once or twice in century or two centuries. Asian teams in Cricket have always under performed in grabd scale of things.

  49. #129
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    GOAT batsman and one of the greatest ever Test match captains. Sad to see that BCCI have treated him the way they have.

    Also, for all of the people complaining about how Kohli was a man-child or a toddler or didnít have manners; I think you donít realise that it was this aggression and this confident attitude that added his success. Other teams feared him.

    It was good to see subcontinental cricketers not acting meek as they generally have. Kohli had a swagger similar to Imran and Akhtar - he was able to put people in their place and had no inferiority complex like other brown players. He well and truly knew he was the GOAT.

    Kohli is a bit of of a narcissist but so was Imran and quite frankly, with all the decades of racism in this game, it was about time we got some narcissistic cricketers from our part of the world who had a swagger about them.

  50. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarwar89 View Post
    But West Indies did win Away Test series in New zealand in 1994. And they did not lose any test series home/away from 1980-1995. Yes they did not beat kiwiz in 1980ís but did not lose as well to them.

    Unlike Steven Waughís Aussies who lost test series in sri lanka 1999, india 2001. Or kohli losing to Proteas 2018/2022.

    As per current stats West indies is the greatest.
    Now more test fixtures happen so
    Possibility of playing these nations in 4 year cycle is definitely possible. Back in 1980ís West indies only toured new zealand once. That does bot happen anymore.

    ATG tag is not easy to earn. People tend to use it very easily. ATG means in human history.

    So far No Asian team is even near to ATG tag.

    For example Pakistan hockey team won World cup in 1978, won champions trophy 1978,80, won Hockey world cup 1982 (again) and won olympic Gold medal as well 1984, plus Asian hockey games as well 1982.83ÖÖ.. niw that is what you call ATG.

    Or their earlier version who won olympic hockey gold medal 1968 then ended up winning world cup in spain 1971.

    As i said ATG is a very rare occurance and such things happen once or twice in century or two centuries. Asian teams in Cricket have always under performed in grabd scale of things.
    Agree with the general message, but WI lost test series to NZ in 1980. It was 3 tests series with NZ winning by 1-0.


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  51. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Agree with the general message, but WI lost test series to NZ in 1980. It was 3 tests series with NZ winning by 1-0.
    That was 1979 winter early 1980
    And their 15 year not losing streak started after that.

    They lost to india as well in 1978.
    Post nzl series late 79/early 80
    Their unbeaten 29 test series streak started.

    2nd closest is Auatralia with 16 Test series.

  52. #132
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    After supporting Shami and hugging Rizwan it was inevitable Hindu terrorists will force him to resign. I said so at the time that his reign as captain was coming to an end. The BCCI is infested with right wing Hindu fanatics who can not tolerate a non religious and secular Hindu like Virat. The loser here in the Indian national side.
    Last edited by MenInG; 16th January 2022 at 08:13.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  53. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cover Drive Six View Post
    Who is best asian captain in tests?
    Imran Khan lost only one series (1-0) in his last six years as captain, which included three drawn series against the ATG West Indian team.

    In the space of just the last four years Kohli has lost to much weaker South Africa (twice), New Zealand and England teams.

    Heís not within a million miles of achieving what Imran Khan did as skipper. Heís an ATG batsman, definitely, but like Joe Root he is a second rate skipper with an inflated Test captaincy record.

  54. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cover Drive Six View Post
    Test captains with 5,000 runs and 52-plus batting average:

    Virat Kohli

    End of list
    Not really... There was also a player named Tendulkar.

    Another player named Gavaskar scored 10K+ runs and had a 51+ average.

  55. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Imran Khan lost only one series (1-0) in his last six years as captain, which included three drawn series against the ATG West Indian team.

    In the space of just the last four years Kohli has lost to much weaker South Africa (twice), New Zealand and England teams.

    He’s not within a million miles of achieving what Imran Khan did as skipper. He’s an ATG batsman, definitely, but like Joe Root he is a second rate skipper with an inflated Test captaincy record.
    Don't be ridiculous, we all know what IK's record in Australia was. And he was able to draw a series in WI, not against an ATG team, but a team whose main batsmen and bowlers were either retired or at the end of their careers. The ATG WI team was from the early 1980s, not late 1980s.

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    Though Kohli is a fantastic batsman and brought a lot of passion to the game, his team selection was rather poor. This SA series, the Indian batting was quite poor with Rahane, Pujara etc.

    Let's see what the next captain is able to achieve. That will also define Kohli's legacy.

  57. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Imran Khan lost only one series (1-0) in his last six years as captain, which included three drawn series against the ATG West Indian team.
    In the drawn series in WI in 1988, Pakistan won the first Test in Georgetown. The following was the WI bowling attack.

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    That's not the ATG WI team. The ATG WI team which backwashed the English team in 1984 had the following attack (1st Test, Birmingham).

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    Also gone from the 1988 team that Pakistan beat in the Georgetown Test were the top WI batsmen Richards and Lloyd. ATG, my foot!

  58. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    After supporting Shami and hugging Rizwan it was inevitable Hindu terrorists will force him to resign. I said so at the time that his reign as captain was coming to an end. The BCCI is infested with right wing Hindu fanatics who can not tolerate a non religious and secular Hindu like Virat. The loser here in the Indian national side.
    LOL
    Now those fanatics are looking for the bat he gave to Mohammad Amir

  59. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    I don't think he's done anywhere near enough to be the GOAT Asian Test captain when you consider the following:

    - Yet to beat SA in SA
    - Yet to beat NZ in NZ
    - Yet to beat England in England (the last series still hasn't been completed)
    - Yet to beat Australia in Australia with their full strength team. Rahane was captain for all those tests that India won during the 3-1 win. In the test where India got bowled out for 36, which they went on to lose, Kohli was captain.
    - Lost the WTC final

    I believe with the current Indian bowling attack, the likes of Ganguly, Miandad, Imran Khan, Dravid and possibly Dhoni as captain may have fared better.

    Kohli is a good captain and one of the top 5 batsmen of all time but he falls wall short of being the GOAT Asian Test captain.
    No Asian captain of the past can lost greater achievements. 40 Test wins, longest reign at the top for an Asian captain, longest reign at the top for a team in the 2010-20 decade, the most dominant home record ever produced by an Asian team.

    All these achievements make Kohli the GOAT Asian Test captain and his team the GOAT Asian Test team. Could he and his team achieved more away from home? Perhaps, but that would have only increased the massive gulf between him and the other Asian captains.

    Had his team team won in South Africa and New Zealand as well, they would be ranked alongside the great West Indies and Australia. However, they have fallen well short of that mark and are a distant third greatest Test side of all time.

    Losing away from home is okay though. You cannot win every away series in a competitive era, it is impossible. Even the great Australian team lost two high profile series in India and England but it didnít dampen their legacy.

    It was incredible how dominant India were at home under Kohli. No other team, especially in this era, came remotely close.

    Asian teams have been strong at home in the past as well but to show such an absurd level of dominance in an era of DRS and great scrutiny on ball-tampering was outstanding.

    Imran had a better bowling attack than Kohli or so we are told, and yet he only won 3-4 Tests away from home and couldnít win in Australia when they were at their weakest. Not to mention, he lost in Sri Lanka in 1985, the minnows of the era.

    After that humiliation, he decided to avoid matches against minnow teams because he started to fear the prospects of losing to minnows. If you win, no one gives you credit but if you lose, it is a source of shame.

    More importantly, letís not disrespect Kohli by comparing him to captains like Imran and Miandad who only won 14 matches each. Kohli has 12 more wins than their tally put together.

    Besides, Kohli is the reason why India have had a world class pace attack. He built it, from scratch. Dhoni never managed to build an attack like this, just compare the performance of Ishant and Yadav under Dhoni and Kohli will tell you the impact Kohliís leadership had on Indiaís fast bowling culture.

    Gangulyís forged together the second best Asian Test team of all time, but it want ruthless enough to compare to Kohliís India. The fast bowling was significantly weaker. Only Zaheer would get into this Indian pace attack.

    Furthermore, if you are not giving credit to Kohli for the win in Australia last year because he wasnít captain even though it was his team and his culture and mentality that drove the players, you should not blame him for this loss in South Africa either, since he finished 1-1.

    KL Rahul led the team in the second Test which India lost.

    Finally, Kohli won in England last summer by all accounts, especially when he has stepped down as captain before the 5th Test (whenever thatís played).

    4 matches were played under his captaincy, he won 2-1. If Pakistan were to your India and have the 5th Test cancelled/postponed while Pakistan is 2-1 up, every single Pakistani fan in the world will claim bagging rights and argue that Pakistan won the series.

  60. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    No Asian captain of the past can lost greater achievements. 40 Test wins, longest reign at the top for an Asian captain, longest reign at the top for a team in the 2010-20 decade, the most dominant home record ever produced by an Asian team.

    All these achievements make Kohli the GOAT Asian Test captain and his team the GOAT Asian Test team. Could he and his team achieved more away from home? Perhaps, but that would have only increased the massive gulf between him and the other Asian captains.

    Had his team team won in South Africa and New Zealand as well, they would be ranked alongside the great West Indies and Australia. However, they have fallen well short of that mark and are a distant third greatest Test side of all time.

    Losing away from home is okay though. You cannot win every away series in a competitive era, it is impossible. Even the great Australian team lost two high profile series in India and England but it didnít dampen their legacy.

    It was incredible how dominant India were at home under Kohli. No other team, especially in this era, came remotely close.

    Asian teams have been strong at home in the past as well but to show such an absurd level of dominance in an era of DRS and great scrutiny on ball-tampering was outstanding.

    Imran had a better bowling attack than Kohli or so we are told, and yet he only won 3-4 Tests away from home and couldnít win in Australia when they were at their weakest. Not to mention, he lost in Sri Lanka in 1985, the minnows of the era.

    After that humiliation, he decided to avoid matches against minnow teams because he started to fear the prospects of losing to minnows. If you win, no one gives you credit but if you lose, it is a source of shame.

    More importantly, letís not disrespect Kohli by comparing him to captains like Imran and Miandad who only won 14 matches each. Kohli has 12 more wins than their tally put together.

    Besides, Kohli is the reason why India have had a world class pace attack. He built it, from scratch. Dhoni never managed to build an attack like this, just compare the performance of Ishant and Yadav under Dhoni and Kohli will tell you the impact Kohliís leadership had on Indiaís fast bowling culture.

    Gangulyís forged together the second best Asian Test team of all time, but it want ruthless enough to compare to Kohliís India. The fast bowling was significantly weaker. Only Zaheer would get into this Indian pace attack.

    Furthermore, if you are not giving credit to Kohli for the win in Australia last year because he wasnít captain even though it was his team and his culture and mentality that drove the players, you should not blame him for this loss in South Africa either, since he finished 1-1.

    KL Rahul led the team in the second Test which India lost.

    Finally, Kohli won in England last summer by all accounts, especially when he has stepped down as captain before the 5th Test (whenever thatís played).

    4 matches were played under his captaincy, he won 2-1. If Pakistan were to your India and have the 5th Test cancelled/postponed while Pakistan is 2-1 up, every single Pakistani fan in the world will claim bagging rights and argue that Pakistan won the series.
    Kohli's PR in full force today . But this is his legacy:-

    Two test series loss in South Africa
    One test series loss in England
    One test series whitewash in New Zealand
    Losing the WTC Final vs New Zealand
    Running away after 36 all out humiliation and leaving the toughest job for Rahane of all people to do.

    No doubt good captain, instilled aggressive mentality but the overseas failures are still common for his country today. Not much changes on that front.
    Last edited by Ted123; 16th January 2022 at 09:17.

  61. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    ----------------------------------------------------

    W/L of all teams Since 2016, when playing Away

    Ind: 1.2
    ...
    ...
    ...
    Aus : 0.6
    Pak : 0.6
    Eng : 0.5
    SA: 0.5
    NZ : 0.4

    One stand-out team which made world cricket interesting because they could go and play well in all conditions. Everyone else has been hovering around 0.5. Hope is that some other teams take over to keep cricket interesting for away tours.

    ----------------------


    Home record since 2016,


    Ind : 11.5
    ..
    ...
    ..
    ...
    ...
    NZ 4.5
    Aus 3.3
    SA 2.3
    Eng 1.7
    SL 1.1

    The gap here is multiple times than away record.

    -----------------------

    What a phenomenal run by the Indian team under Kohli. End of an era and I did not expect that Kohli will call it a day so soon.
    Very revealing stats, thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted123 View Post
    Kohli's PR in full force today . But this is his legacy:-

    Running away after 36 all out humiliation and leaving the toughest job for Rahane of all people to do.

    No doubt good captain, instilled aggressive mentality but the overseas failures are still common for his country today. Not much changes on that front.
    Overseas failures common??? By far the best overseas record since 2016.

    Also, he had already planned to leave for the birth of his child, he didn't "run away".

  62. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Monetarist View Post
    I stand by my view that their treatment of Kohli is self-sabotage by the BCCI. Rationally, India has no real succession plan for the Test captaincy.
    I think Virat has lost control of his team. There have been onfield behaviours and statements from important members that have never been seen before, during his reign. Ever since he left Australia, he was weakened. The BCCI have had issues with him, but that's not something new - captain vs administration is as old as cricket itself. But the fact that he didn't have the same control over his team might have given the Board the guts to go after him. As has been mentioned here or somewhere else, Virat came in at a time when the BCCI had been clipped by the courts. He had an unfettered run for a long time and wasn't used to being told what to do, which is what's been happening once Ganguly took over. And he probably felt he didn't want to deal with that. His gigantic ego doesn't help of course.

  63. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by pillionrider View Post
    I think Virat has lost control of his team. There have been onfield behaviours and statements from important members that have never been seen before, during his reign. Ever since he left Australia, he was weakened. The BCCI have had issues with him, but that's not something new - captain vs administration is as old as cricket itself. But the fact that he didn't have the same control over his team might have given the Board the guts to go after him. As has been mentioned here or somewhere else, Virat came in at a time when the BCCI had been clipped by the courts. He had an unfettered run for a long time and wasn't used to being told what to do, which is what's been happening once Ganguly took over. And he probably felt he didn't want to deal with that. His gigantic ego doesn't help of course.
    He did not lose control of the team - they probably worship the ground he walks on. The issue is that BCCI have lost control of Virat and he of himself.


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  64. #144
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    Well Goodbye Kohli, the best Indian captain... He had terrible attitude and also with the fact he was not in the good books of Ganguly, the writing was on the wall....


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    More than the series loss to South Africa, I actually think the last nail in the Kohli captaincy coffin was his on-field conduct during the final run chase. He demonstrated that he had lost the plot on a mental level as the leader of India. Elgar has said in his post match comments that he capitalised on DRSgate and pushed for runs immediately because he could sense that the Indian team had gone out of control.

  66. #146
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    Expected move after losing the series to a weak and depleted South Africa team.

    After him, the careers of Shami and Siraj are also under threat and will be dropped at the first opportunity.

  67. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    No Asian captain of the past can lost greater achievements. 40 Test wins, longest reign at the top for an Asian captain, longest reign at the top for a team in the 2010-20 decade, the most dominant home record ever produced by an Asian team.

    All these achievements make Kohli the GOAT Asian Test captain and his team the GOAT Asian Test team. Could he and his team achieved more away from home? Perhaps, but that would have only increased the massive gulf between him and the other Asian captains.

    Had his team team won in South Africa and New Zealand as well, they would be ranked alongside the great West Indies and Australia. However, they have fallen well short of that mark and are a distant third greatest Test side of all time.

    Losing away from home is okay though. You cannot win every away series in a competitive era, it is impossible. Even the great Australian team lost two high profile series in India and England but it didnít dampen their legacy.

    It was incredible how dominant India were at home under Kohli. No other team, especially in this era, came remotely close.

    Asian teams have been strong at home in the past as well but to show such an absurd level of dominance in an era of DRS and great scrutiny on ball-tampering was outstanding.

    Imran had a better bowling attack than Kohli or so we are told, and yet he only won 3-4 Tests away from home and couldnít win in Australia when they were at their weakest. Not to mention, he lost in Sri Lanka in 1985, the minnows of the era.

    After that humiliation, he decided to avoid matches against minnow teams because he started to fear the prospects of losing to minnows. If you win, no one gives you credit but if you lose, it is a source of shame.

    More importantly, letís not disrespect Kohli by comparing him to captains like Imran and Miandad who only won 14 matches each. Kohli has 12 more wins than their tally put together.

    Besides, Kohli is the reason why India have had a world class pace attack. He built it, from scratch. Dhoni never managed to build an attack like this, just compare the performance of Ishant and Yadav under Dhoni and Kohli will tell you the impact Kohliís leadership had on Indiaís fast bowling culture.

    Gangulyís forged together the second best Asian Test team of all time, but it want ruthless enough to compare to Kohliís India. The fast bowling was significantly weaker. Only Zaheer would get into this Indian pace attack.

    Furthermore, if you are not giving credit to Kohli for the win in Australia last year because he wasnít captain even though it was his team and his culture and mentality that drove the players, you should not blame him for this loss in South Africa either, since he finished 1-1.

    KL Rahul led the team in the second Test which India lost.

    Finally, Kohli won in England last summer by all accounts, especially when he has stepped down as captain before the 5th Test (whenever thatís played).

    4 matches were played under his captaincy, he won 2-1. If Pakistan were to your India and have the 5th Test cancelled/postponed while Pakistan is 2-1 up, every single Pakistani fan in the world will claim bagging rights and argue that Pakistan won the series.
    To make it short, he deserved this end. Thrown out for the loss against an average SA team. Thrown out for loosing the thrid test due to his childish captaincy.

  68. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    ...they probably worship the ground he walks on.
    Disagree. I would count only KL Rahul, Hardik Pandya, Siraj and maybe Umesh Yadav among his boys from among the current players. Ishant Sharma is a friend from his teens.

    In my view, Rohit Sharma and he share a relationship of mutual respect despite rumours of a tiff. I don't think Kohli will be too fussed about playing under Rohit.

    Rishabh Pant leans more towards Rohit. Shardul is his Mumbai buddy. Bumrah too.

    Mayank, Shami, Gill are probably neutral.

    Ashwin definitely has a problem with Kohli and was brought in for a second wind in white ball cricket at Rohit's insistence (It slipped out of Rohit's mouth in an interview after the T20 WC probably because of his lack of fluency in English).

    Pujara and Rahane have always been wary of Kohli and never fully committed to or against him. Kohli was dismissive of Pujara early on and started backing him only when he realized his value and had won in Aus (first time). Rahane probably harbored captaincy ambitions.

    An important detail that's repeatedly emerged is that Kohli spoke to Dravid first, then the Board and did not call a team meeting before posting his resignation on Twitter.
    Last edited by pillionrider; 16th January 2022 at 12:00.

  69. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by pillionrider View Post
    An important detail that's repeatedly emerged is that Kohli spoke to Dravid first, then the Board and did not call a team meeting before posting his resignation on Twitter.
    Yes, that's an important detail, it appears that no one attempted to dissuade Kohli from resigning and that Shah immediately accepted Kohli's decision when he called. Also funny that Kohli called Shah to resign and didn't bother to inform Ganguly directly.

  70. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Monetarist View Post
    Yes, that's an important detail, it appears that no one attempted to dissuade Kohli from resigning and that Shah immediately accepted Kohli's decision when he called. Also funny that Kohli called Shah to resign and didn't bother to inform Ganguly directly.
    Yeah that's the basic you'd expect. Especially considering Ganguly is a former captain and Shah is a nobody. A powerful nobody, but a nobody nonetheless.

  71. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Monetarist View Post
    Yes, that's an important detail, it appears that no one attempted to dissuade Kohli from resigning and that Shah immediately accepted Kohli's decision when he called. Also funny that Kohli called Shah to resign and didn't bother to inform Ganguly directly.
    Quote Originally Posted by pillionrider View Post
    Yeah that's the basic you'd expect. Especially considering Ganguly is a former captain and Shah is a nobody. A powerful nobody, but a nobody nonetheless.
    What this whole saga establishes is that Ganguly is the most powerful man in cricket.....by a long distance. What is also the case is, even after all of this I would say Kohli is still the second most powerful person in cricket. Will still be a big influence in the team.

    Meanwhile the ICC is hiding under their desks looking for their backbone. What pathetic set of losers the ICC bunch are.

  72. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romali_rotti View Post
    Well Goodbye Kohli, the best Indian captain... He had terrible attitude and also with the fact he was not in the good books of Ganguly, the writing was on the wall....
    Winning solves everything, and if the SA series ended 2-1 instead of 1-2 he could have done as he pleased. I think he would have continued to captain the 5th Test against England so he would have won series in Australia, SA and England. Unfortunately SA series ended 1-2 and not 2-1.

    He had a fantastic winning record in Tests, the question remains whether the winning record was due to his captaincy or due to the resources India has? No doubt the team selection was poor in the SA series. What were Pujara, Rahane and Ashwin doing in the team with Iyer, Gill and Axar left out? A super talent like Prithvi Shaw seems to have been discarded when he needed to be mentored.

    If the next captain continues winning abroad as much as Kohli did, then the answer would be that the Indian resources rather than Captain Kohli was the reason for his successes.
    Last edited by Napa; 16th January 2022 at 12:19.

  73. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Winning solves everything, and if the SA series ended 2-1 instead of 1-2 he could have done as he pleased. I think he would have continued to captain the 5th Test against England so he would have won series in Australia, SA and England. Unfortunately SA series ended 1-2 and not 2-1.

    Agreed..


    He had a fantastic winning record in Tests, the question remains whether the winning record was due to his captaincy or due to the resources India has? No doubt the team selection was poor in the SA series. What were Pujara, Rahane and Ashwin doing in the team with Iyer, Gill and Axar left out? A super talent like Prithvi Shaw seems to have been discarded when he needed to be mentored.

    I would say the loss of Siraj along with no Rohit Sharma and Shubmaan Gill really tilted the series in SA's favor.. Iyer imo would have been a bad selection, he struggles when the ball rises above knee level, Shaw has not been the same since he got the foot injury in Aus during his first AUS tour. I do not see Shaw ever playing for India again, unless it is a miracle, he has fallen out of favor big time...


    If the next captain continues winning abroad as much as Kohli did, then the answer would be that the Indian resources rather than Captain Kohli was the reason for his successes.

    We have already proven we can beat the best at their house, first step is to take care that remaining 1 test match in ENG and win our 3rd test series there, would not shock me however if Indians lose that 1 test match. Last time they had to priorities IPL instead of winning the series, so Karma can come back to bite them with a drawn series.


    Bold...


    "You want Philly, Philly ? " Nicholas Edward Foles

  74. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romali_rotti View Post
    Bold...
    Yes, they could very lose to England in the 5th Test, because... Anderson and Broad will have a chance to recover, if they had played the 5th Test on schedule they would have been worn out.

  75. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    No doubt the team selection was poor in the SA series. What were Pujara, Rahane and Ashwin doing in the team with Iyer, Gill and Axar left out?
    .
    Gill is injured I believe, otherwise he would have been playing..


    "You want Philly, Philly ? " Nicholas Edward Foles

  76. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romali_rotti View Post
    Gill is injured I believe, otherwise he would have been playing..
    Got it, thanks

  77. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    In the drawn series in WI in 1988, Pakistan won the first Test in Georgetown. The following was the WI bowling attack.

    Name:  Screen Shot 2022-01-15 at 7.14.00 PM.jpg
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    That's not the ATG WI team. The ATG WI team which backwashed the English team in 1984 had the following attack (1st Test, Birmingham).

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    Also gone from the 1988 team that Pakistan beat in the Georgetown Test were the top WI batsmen Richards and Lloyd. ATG, my foot!
    Yep, Pakistan could not even win a series against a watered down WI side... Imran should not be in the conversation of being the greatest captain from Asia, he has what a whopping 4 overseas test match wins in total ? Oh please....


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    His performance has not been good in last 2 years
    Kohli the batter is more important India need in future than Kohli the Captain

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    I remember MS, you & I having a chat later that day...
    Never before has the wife of an Indian cricketer tried to thrust their relevance this much. Doesn't she have any movie career going of her own....

    And that pic she's chosen of Virat makes him look like a madman laughing

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