"Wearing Hijab Is Indiscipline": Karnataka Minister On Students' Protest


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  1. #1
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    "Wearing Hijab Is Indiscipline": Karnataka Minister On Students' Protest

    Bengaluru: The nearly three-week-long stand-off between a government college in Karnataka's Udupi district and a handful of Muslim students who want to wear a hijab during classes escalated Thursday morning after they protested at the college gates with placards.

    The students said stopping them from wearing a hijab - their seniors were allowed - violates their fundamental right, and that they feel uncomfortable without one when sitting before male lecturers.

    "We came to the college wearing a hijab. However, we have been barred once again from attending the classes," Aliya, one of the students, told NDTV.

    "We've been barred for 20 days for wearing hijab. We want justice," Resham said, as another student, Muskan Zainab, asked, "The Constitution gives us the right to wear a hijab, why is the college stopping that?"

    The fresh protests come a day after college authorities and district officials gave the students an ultimatum - fall in line with the dress code and receive an education, or wear one and go home.

    The protests also come after the state's Education Minister BC Nagesh told NDTV the practice amounted to "indiscipline" and that schools and colleges were "not a place to practice dharma".

    Mr Nagesh also accused "a few people" - a reference to the PFI-associated Campus Front of India backing the students - of politicising the issue ahead of the 2023 Assembly election, and demanded to know why the students "want to practice constitutional rights now".

    On that charge the students today denied any connection to the CFI.

    "We are not influenced by Campus Front of India. We are not a part of them. Since we did not get a positive response (or) any support, we approached CFI," Aliya told NDTV.

    Earlier Mr Nagesh told NDTV rules regarding the dress code had been in place since 1985 and that these protests only erupted 15-20 days ago.

    He claimed over 100 Muslim students enrolled at that particular college had no issue and "only these students don't want to follow (the dress code)... School is not a place to practice dharma".

    Asked if the Education Department should infringe on the girls' right to practice their religion, and if wearing of a hijab, or headscarf, violated any guidelines, Mr Nagesh pointed to the Congress.

    "When Congress government was there... they followed the rule. But now they have a problem? They want to practice constitutional rights now? Indiscipline cannot be a right," he said.

    The protesting students told NDTV that their parents had repeatedly requested college authorities to allow them to wear the hijab, but to no avail.

    "We can't sit comfortably... That is why we are wearing a hijab. This is a government college... a girl's college (but) we have male lecturers. If there are women lecturers, we don't mind sitting without a hijab but we have male lecturers. We are not comfortable," Safa, a second-year student, said.

    Aliya, told NDTV her seniors had been allowed to wear the hijab during classes, but that they had been "mentally tortured" for doing so.

    "There is religious discrimination in the college. We can't say 'salaam'... can't talk in Urdu even though it is a government college. Other students are allowed to speak in Tulu (a local language)... lecturers speak to us in Tulu. But we are not allowed to speak in Urdu," she said.

    She also insisted the college's terms and conditions make no reference to the wearing of a hijab; "Why are they acting like we are committing a crime? We are only asking for a headscarf," she said.

    Yesterday Mr Nagesh acknowledged the state government "has not fixed a uniform (dress) code" but urged the protesting students to nonetheless follow the rule.

    https://www.ndtv.com/karnataka-news/...-ndtv_bigstory


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    Just an innocent question; Are the sikhs also barred from using turban? (assuming this is not a girl-school only)


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    Muslim girls wearing hijab barred from classes at Indian college

    A group of Muslim students at a government college in Karnataka has been forced to sit outside the classroom for weeks now.



    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/...ijab-ban-udupi




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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorblind Genius View Post
    Muslim girls wearing hijab barred from classes at Indian college

    A group of Muslim students at a government college in Karnataka has been forced to sit outside the classroom for weeks now.



    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/...ijab-ban-udupi



    Hijab is banned in various European countries. Whats the big deal if they are asking these girls to follow the uniform code?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Hijab is banned in various European countries. Whats the big deal if they are asking these girls to follow the uniform code?
    Do you feel comfortable humiliating minorities in your country?

    India is not Europe - there is no need for India to follow Europe.


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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    1.Taxpayers money spent on muslims to send them for haj. Lets start with this.

    Change that, pass the law, do not need to marginalize and dehumanize them to change that law.

    Once you are done with that,

    Move to Muslims being allowed Separate personal laws while Hindus being governed by secular constitutional law.

    How does this affect the larger Hindu community? what it has done to make larger Hindu life miserable on daily basis?


    Sitting PM openly saying that muslims have first right on India's resources.
    Does that mean lynching of Muslims should began? that is his opinion

    And i can go on and on.

    Defend Modi? Why do you think Modi needs defending? If Indians are happy with Modi, he will stay, if not he will be out of power. There is no need to defend Modi or for that matter any Indian government outside of India.
    Of course, Indian such as yourself are happy with Modi, that is not the point, and you know that. It is just you can't defend his and his clan bigotry so you would present everyone with elementary response such as that - and waste readers time.

    Your comments reflects what has been highlighted on this thread and many other, no solid justification of bigotry and hate toward minorities.

  7. #7
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    I hope not, Muslims are like 15% of total Indian population.

    It's one thing to commit gennoacide of Sikhs (1.8% of total) in places like Dehradun, Patna and Delhi (burn down their businesses and burn people alive with tires in their neck), hopefully Indian Muslims will unite and highlight atrocities on world scale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IAJ View Post
    Just an innocent question; Are the sikhs also barred from using turban? (assuming this is not a girl-school only)
    They have issue with everything related to Islam, they hate Muslims because Muslims follow Muhammad (peace be upon him), which is the main grudge.
    Last edited by Last Monetarist; 21st January 2022 at 10:59.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Hijab is banned in various European countries. Whats the big deal if they are asking these girls to follow the uniform code?
    Lol apne mufaad kay liye Europe ki yaad agai?

    Out of curiosity, are the sikh students also forced to take off their turban in India?


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    Yeh jahaan cheez kya hai Loh-o-Qalam tere hain

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Do you feel comfortable humiliating minorities in your country?

    India is not Europe - there is no need for India to follow Europe.
    Quote Originally Posted by IAJ View Post
    Lol apne mufaad kay liye Europe ki yaad agai?

    Out of curiosity, are the sikh students also forced to take off their turban in India?
    During my school days one of the student wore blue denim instead of blue trousers. Teachers would assign a CR to check uninforms of all kids and he told the other guy that denims are not allowed. Other kid said that I am wearing it because I can afford it. CR complained to the teacher and teacher gave him an earful.

    Pretty sure wearing denims is constiutional rights. Does that mean that kids can wear it if the dress code doesn't allow it? Some of the IT companies require employees to be in formals. Can any employee report to work in shorts saying that it's their constitional right? I don't know how does that question of constitutional right come into picture?

    Questions?

    1. How does it humiliate muslims?
    2. Is wearing hijab mandatory in Islam? If yes, then it should be allowed just like how sikhs are allowed to wear head cover.
    3. How were students going to school without hijaab for decades? If hijab is mandatory, does it mean that students are being humiliated for decades? How is it being followed all over world in other islamic countries? If it is not mandatory, then are students just looking for a privilege or are students just looking raise an issue for sake of it?

    4. Is there a dress code at school? - If yes, then someone needs to revisit it depending on whether it is mandatory in religion or not. If there is no dress code, then authorities are just being random and discriminatory.

    5. Are other religions allowed to choose dress code as per their wish? If it is not mandatory, then are other students allowed to wear dress as per choices (not necessarily for religious reasons), but just because they want to?

    6. If it's not mandatory, then where is the limit upto which schools can cater religious preferences (not obligations)? Tomorrow if students complain that they are uncomfortable by male non-muslims teachers, should ensure that only muslim teachers are allocated to muslims students to ensure that they are not humiliated?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tera Gawaandi View Post
    I hope not, Muslims are like 15% of total Indian population.

    It's one thing to commit gennoacide of Sikhs (1.8% of total) in places like Dehradun, Patna and Delhi (burn down their businesses and burn people alive with tires in their neck), hopefully Indian Muslims will unite and highlight atrocities on world scale.
    Can you provide sources for that, or it is just some Khalistani propaganda doing the rounds?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kumjsr View Post
    6. If it's not mandatory, then where is the limit upto which schools can cater religious preferences (not obligations)? Tomorrow if students complain that they are uncomfortable by male non-muslims teachers, should ensure that only muslim teachers are allocated to muslims students to ensure that they are not humiliated?
    People can draw the line here. If a muslim girl decides to wear a hijab, no one is affected but her. But if muslim girls start demanding that male teachers should not teach them then it's a much bigger problem for everyone.
    You can allow one but not the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gani999 View Post
    People can draw the line here. If a muslim girl decides to wear a hijab, no one is affected but her. But if muslim girls start demanding that male teachers should not teach them then it's a much bigger problem for everyone.
    You can allow one but not the other.

    How doesn't it affect others? Others can also demand to wear whatever they want. Their demands can be rejected if it is deemed that wearing hijab is mandatory. If it is not mandatory, then on what grounds will any institution reject demands of others?

    For ex - if a school has a dress code and student demands wearing something different of their own choice, school will have to accept it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kumjsr View Post
    How doesn't it affect others? Others can also demand to wear whatever they want. Their demands can be rejected if it is deemed that wearing hijab is mandatory. If it is not mandatory, then on what grounds will any institution reject demands of others?

    For ex - if a school has a dress code and student demands wearing something different of their own choice, school will have to accept it.
    It's only a hijab, which is a piece of cloth worn over the head. It can be worn alongside the regular school uniform. It's the same with the Sikh turban. The Indian police and the armed forces allow their sikh staff to wear them as a part of the uniform, in addition to permitting them to grow beards. Such minor alterations to the dress can be permitted to accommodate religious sensitivities.

    That school in Karnataka is making a mountain out of a molehill on this issue.
    Last edited by gani999; 21st January 2022 at 14:39.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Do you feel comfortable humiliating minorities in your country?

    India is not Europe - there is no need for India to follow Europe.
    No body has special rights. The rule is fir everyone, if they feel their rights have been violated, they can approach the court.

    I studied in a army school, we were not allowed to wear any visible religious symbol, not even the thread on the hand.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kumjsr View Post
    How doesn't it affect others? Others can also demand to wear whatever they want. Their demands can be rejected if it is deemed that wearing hijab is mandatory. If it is not mandatory, then on what grounds will any institution reject demands of others?

    For ex - if a school has a dress code and student demands wearing something different of their own choice, school will have to accept it.
    Can you please explain if you have an issue with Hijab as such.

    Your other comments will then get the proper context.


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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    No body has special rights. The rule is fir everyone, if they feel their rights have been violated, they can approach the court.

    I studied in a army school, we were not allowed to wear any visible religious symbol, not even the thread on the hand.
    So in your Army school did the Sikhs come without any hair cover, even a small one?


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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaLoco View Post
    Your comments reflects what has been highlighted on this thread and many other, no solid justification of bigotry and hate toward minorities.
    1. No one is marginalizing or dehumanizing anyone. I just gave one example how Muslims get special treatment.

    2. In a secular country there cannot be two laws for two different religions. One to be governed by secular constitution another by personal religious laws. This is discrimination.

    3.A PMs word is not just opinion. Just because no one is interested in posting killing of non muslims of India by muslims, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. This is a muslim dominated forum, ofcourse the narrative is one sided.

    4. I understand its difficult for you to digest that how can muslims not be given special rights in the subcontinent. Hence every attempt to make it look like bigotry or hate. Muslims only deserve equal rights and equal responsibilities in India, not more, not less

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAJ View Post
    Lol apne mufaad kay liye Europe ki yaad agai?

    Out of curiosity, are the sikh students also forced to take off their turban in India?
    I just gave one example. Sikhs are not asked to remove turbans and shave beards as according to the supreme court its compulsory in their religion.

    If a muslim moves court and proves that hijab or niqab or burqa is compulsory in islam they will be allowed too.

    Remember in India Ahmadis are recognised as muslims after they proved it in the court. One of their prime witnesses was a Pakistani.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    So in your Army school did the Sikhs come without any hair cover, even a small one?
    They were allowed the patka. As per the judgement of supreme court, hair cover is essential and compulsory among sikhs.

  21. #21
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    Can anyone tell me if the Hijab is compulsory in Islam?

  22. #22
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    Just another day in shining india where the muslim population are subjected to discrimination

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Can anyone tell me if the Hijab is compulsory in Islam?
    There are various rulings on this and whilst the exact nature of Hijab may not be mentioned in the Quran, there is a concept of modesty which means different things to different Muslims.

    Point is it is something they feel comfortable wearing. They don't just put on the Hijab one fine day or to rile up local populations - they have been wearing this since childhood as have their mothers and their grandmothers and so on.


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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    There are various rulings on this and whilst the exact nature of Hijab may not be mentioned in the Quran, there is a concept of modesty which means different things to different Muslims.

    Point is it is something they feel comfortable wearing. They don't just put on the Hijab one fine day or to rile up local populations - they have been wearing this since childhood as have their mothers and their grandmothers and so on.
    Well, the educational institute is within its right to ask them to follow a dress code. If its compulsory in Islam, they can approach the HC or SC and get an order, which will force the college to allow it.

    Else i am afraid they have little choice but to follow the dress code.

    Because if they allow the hijab, tommorow a hindu girl will say i will take a dupatta on head then the concept of school uniform goes out of the window.
    Last edited by cricketjoshila; 21st January 2022 at 16:08.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaz View Post
    Just another day in shining india where the muslim population are subjected to discrimination
    So following a dress code is discrimination?

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    If it is fair across the board and Hindus are not allowed red dots, sikhs aren't allowed turban and Christians can't wear crosses etc then the Muslims should find another school.

    If its selective discrimination then they should bring the school down.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    I just gave one example. Sikhs are not asked to remove turbans and shave beards as according to the supreme court its compulsory in their religion.

    If a muslim moves court and proves that hijab or niqab or burqa is compulsory in islam they will be allowed too.

    Remember in India Ahmadis are recognised as muslims after they proved it in the court. One of their prime witnesses was a Pakistani.
    Secular supreme courts can't decide what is compulsory or not in religious matters.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAJ View Post
    Just an innocent question; Are the sikhs also barred from using turban? (assuming this is not a girl-school only)
    Good question.

    If women can't wear hijabs, why are Sikh males allowed turbans? Both are covering their hairs.

    There is a clear double standard.


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  29. #29
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    If this happened anywhere else, I could have given it the benefit of doubt. But considering that it's happened in my state where there have been a spate of recent events designed to irritate minorities, I doubt the college took the decision based on dress code etiquette.

    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    There are various rulings on this and whilst the exact nature of Hijab may not be mentioned in the Quran, there is a concept of modesty which means different things to different Muslims.

    Point is it is something they feel comfortable wearing. They don't just put on the Hijab one fine day or to rile up local populations - they have been wearing this since childhood as have their mothers and their grandmothers and so on.
    There's an interview with some of the girls. It looks like they started wearing it recently. Their reason was - they're ok with dressing similar to the other students so long as female teachers are present. The hijab was something they started wearing because they felt they needed to protect their modesty whilst in class with male teachers.

    It could be something that came with them growing up and feeling more conscious about such things.

    But as cricketjoshila pointed out, if someone can move the SC and prove that this is part of their fundamental right to practice their religion, no one, not even Modi's daddy can stop them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    1. No one is marginalizing or dehumanizing anyone. I just gave one example how Muslims get special treatment.

    Sure, either we are being shown fake news daily, Indian Muslims are lying, rest of the world have agenda against Hindutva, or you are living under the rock and refuse to acknowledge.

    2. In a secular country there cannot be two laws for two different religions. One to be governed by secular constitution another by personal religious laws. This is discrimination.

    If it does not impact the larger Hindu population then why does it matter how Muslim govern themselves as long as the do deviate from the core constitution of India

    3.A PMs word is not just opinion. Just because no one is interested in posting killing of non muslims of India by muslims, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. This is a muslim dominated forum, ofcourse the narrative is one sided.

    That is why Hindutva was created and supported by elected politics while ask police to look the other way?

    4. I understand its difficult for you to digest that how can muslims not be given special rights in the subcontinent. Hence every attempt to make it look like bigotry or hate. Muslims only deserve equal rights and equal responsibilities in India, not more, not less

    If Indian of Muslims were getting special treatment then they wouldn't be bashing Hindutva and you wouldn't have to defend Hindutva daily on the Pakistani forum.
    Nothing but excuse after excuse in the support of bigotry.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Can you please explain if you have an issue with Hijab as such.

    Your other comments will then get the proper context.
    No, I don't have any issue with what anyone wears or doesn't wear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    There are various rulings on this and whilst the exact nature of Hijab may not be mentioned in the Quran, there is a concept of modesty which means different things to different Muslims.

    Point is it is something they feel comfortable wearing. They don't just put on the Hijab one fine day or to rile up local populations - they have been wearing this since childhood as have their mothers and their grandmothers and so on.
    Can you provide source of this claim that those students have been wearing it everywhere since childhood?

    Earlier Mr Nagesh told NDTV rules regarding the dress code had been in place since 1985 and that these protests only erupted 15-20 days ago.

    He claimed over 100 Muslim students enrolled at that particular college had no issue and "only these students don't want to follow (the dress code)... School is not a place to practice dharma".
    So, if this is about comfort, will schools allow shorts, baniyans and lungi for those who are comfortable in it.

    Our schools didn't allow slippers and no one raised an objection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Well, the educational institute is within its right to ask them to follow a dress code. If its compulsory in Islam, they can approach the HC or SC and get an order, which will force the college to allow it.

    Else i am afraid they have little choice but to follow the dress code.

    Because if they allow the hijab, tommorow a hindu girl will say i will take a dupatta on head then the concept of school uniform goes out of the window.
    If it is mandatory, then they shouldn't require reaching courts.

    Schools should allow them directly.

    If it's just preference and comfort then allowing hijab is discriminatory to other students who are forced to follow the dress code and not allowed clothes of their choices and comfort.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom View Post
    Secular supreme courts can't decide what is compulsory or not in religious matters.
    Yes they can. If a person believes something is absolutely mandatory in his religion and he is being stopped from practising it, he or she can move the court.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom View Post
    If it is fair across the board and Hindus are not allowed red dots, sikhs aren't allowed turban and Christians can't wear crosses etc then the Muslims should find another school.

    If its selective discrimination then they should bring the school down.
    All of them were disallowed in my school except the turban. Sikhs were allowed the turban.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by pillionrider View Post
    If this happened anywhere else, I could have given it the benefit of doubt. But considering that it's happened in my state where there have been a spate of recent events designed to irritate minorities, I doubt the college took the decision based on dress code etiquette.



    There's an interview with some of the girls. It looks like they started wearing it recently. Their reason was - they're ok with dressing similar to the other students so long as female teachers are present. The hijab was something they started wearing because they felt they needed to protect their modesty whilst in class with male teachers.

    It could be something that came with them growing up and feeling more conscious about such things.

    But as cricketjoshila pointed out, if someone can move the SC and prove that this is part of their fundamental right to practice their religion, no one, not even Modi's daddy can stop them.
    Why SC. Move the HC first. Problem is if you allow hijab, tommorow someone will say allow tika, then allow dupatta, etc.

    If these girls are so conscious of male teachers, they could join a girls school.

  37. #37
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    I have nothing further to add to this thread.

    All I can say is that the hate for Muslims is real as demonstrated by some of the posters here.

    As many Muslims from India who I know in the Middle East have told me, its better for them to stay quiet or risk being destroyed. I can see why they feel that.


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Yes they can. If a person believes something is absolutely mandatory in his religion and he is being stopped from practising it, he or she can move the court.
    There are too many nuances and variables for a court to decide whether a religion mandates something.

    You will find a difference of opinion on most matters. Ultimately it comes down to personal convictions and the number of people who want to adhere to religious garbs.

    The headscarf has culturally been a part of India for many years, it is not some alien object that requires a court to go back and forth and decide its status. People can use their eyes and can go through Indian history for 100s of years.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Can you please explain if you have an issue with Hijab as such.

    Your other comments will then get the proper context.
    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    I have nothing further to add to this thread.

    All I can say is that the hate for Muslims is real as demonstrated by some of the posters here.

    As many Muslims from India who I know in the Middle East have told me, its better for them to stay quiet or risk being destroyed. I can see why they feel that.
    1. How is hate being real related to this thread?

    2. I answered the question you asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Can you please explain if you have an issue with Hijab as such.

    Your other comments will then get the proper context.
    What is the context for my other questions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom View Post
    The headscarf has culturally been a part of India for many years, it is not some alien object that requires a court to go back and forth and decide its status. People can use their eyes and can go through Indian history for 100s of years.
    I get that you probably are referring to the concept of covering the hair which is cross-community. But burkhas and hijabs are quite recent in India to the extent that they are today. My parents say that they hardly ever saw this in public or in college. At least here in South India. And we are talking less than 40-50 years back.

    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    If these girls are so conscious of male teachers, they could join a girls school.
    This is a women's pre-university college which would put the girls' ages between 16-18. There are 70 Muslim students, of whom, eight have been blocked from attending.

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    Most of the Pakistani posters are acting as if they never had dress code in their schools.

    https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/****...bad-1.82093019

    Islamabad: A dress code has been announced for the teaching staff of government-run schools and colleges of Islamabad, barring lady teachers from wearing jeans and tights and their male counterparts t-shirts, jeans or slippers.

    The Federal Directorate of Education (FDE), the regulatory body for over 400 schools and model colleges, through a letter has directed all the principals to ensure that their teaching and non-teaching staff (both male and female) observe a personal hygiene, including regular haircut, beard trimming, nail cutting and use of perfume.
    Pretty sure there would be lot of people who would be comfortable in slippers and jeans.

    Similarly most of the schools follow dress code in India which gives a sense of uniformity irrespective of religion, caste, class.





    It's debatable whether schools in country should have dress code or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Can you please explain if you have an issue with Hijab as such.

    Your other comments will then get the proper context.
    And one more question to you.

    Are you saying all Indian schools should allow all students to follow their preferences and comfort when it comes to dresses? Basically abolish the dress code?

    If yes, then it's ok. If you're asking only Muslims should get that preference, then what's the logic behind discriminating non-muslims?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pillionrider View Post
    I get that you probably are referring to the concept of covering the hair which is cross-community. But burkhas and hijabs are quite recent in India to the extent that they are today. My parents say that they hardly ever saw this in public or in college. At least here in South India. And we are talking less than 40-50 years back.


    This is a women's pre-university college which would put the girls' ages between 16-18. There are 70 Muslim students, of whom, eight have been blocked from attending.
    Burkhas and hijabs indeed were very limited in 90s India ( if I am not wrong it was also less in Pakistan in 80s and 90s), so much so I have seen instances were the grandmother and mother does not wear these items but 18 year olds today from the same family wears it. Ofcourse end of the day it is individual choice of what one wants to wear, but I have seen several of my friends very frustrated about the growing conservatism within their families in last 15 years.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    I have nothing further to add to this thread.

    All I can say is that the hate for Muslims is real as demonstrated by some of the posters here.

    As many Muslims from India who I know in the Middle East have told me, its better for them to stay quiet or risk being destroyed. I can see why they feel that.
    MIG brother, staying quiet or wishing this away is dangerous.

    As you have witnessed the hate is of a dangerous level. They are justifying incitment of hatred and ironically claiming its because they are secular.

    Muslims in India need to oragnise a poltical movement involving Muslims in high ranking positions esp judges, army personell and politcians.

    Forcing a girl to remove a headscarf is a low as one nation get become. Even in the UK the niqab isnt banned.

    We must thank God for not being part of what today is a Hindutva extemist run India.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    I just gave one example. Sikhs are not asked to remove turbans and shave beards as according to the supreme court its compulsory in their religion.

    If a muslim moves court and proves that hijab or niqab or burqa is compulsory in islam they will be allowed too.

    Remember in India Ahmadis are recognised as muslims after they proved it in the court. One of their prime witnesses was a Pakistani.
    How can the court decide whether Ahmedis are Muslims or not? A person who considers Quran as a man written book and Muhammad to be liar he will judge on religious matter ?

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Hijab is banned in various European countries. Whats the big deal if they are asking these girls to follow the uniform code?
    ahhhh .... so you are basing the Indian model on European standards. Good enough.

    Now, cow is widely slaughtered in Europe, matter fact, there are people in European countries like Poland etc, they even love to make sex with cows.

    When are you planning to follow this European norm in the 20 Indian states where cow slaughter/beef is banned?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Justcrazy View Post
    How can the court decide whether Ahmedis are Muslims or not? A person who considers Quran as a man written book and Muhammad to be liar he will judge on religious matter ?
    Other muslim sects had repeatedly tried to declare Ahmadiyas as no muslims.

    In British India, the other sects twice lost cases in the high court of Madras and Patna and Ahmadiyas were declared as muslims.

    Even in pakistan they were Muslims till 1974.

    In India, after independence, in 1971 other muslim sects tried to outlaw the Ahmadiyas leading to a court case. The Ahmadiyas defence was led by Mohammad Zafar ullah Khan. The court finally ruled in their favour as they proved that they believe in the Koran and the prophet (pbuh).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorblind Genius View Post
    ahhhh .... so you are basing the Indian model on European standards. Good enough.

    Now, cow is widely slaughtered in Europe, matter fact, there are people in European countries like Poland etc, they even love to make sex with cows.

    When are you planning to follow this European norm in the 20 Indian states where cow slaughter/beef is banned?
    The day we have uniform civil code in India.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by pillionrider View Post
    I get that you probably are referring to the concept of covering the hair which is cross-community. But burkhas and hijabs are quite recent in India to the extent that they are today. My parents say that they hardly ever saw this in public or in college. At least here in South India. And we are talking less than 40-50 years back.


    This is a women's pre-university college which would put the girls' ages between 16-18. There are 70 Muslim students, of whom, eight have been blocked from attending.
    Some are saying it's PFI who are doing this.

  50. #50
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    I find this extremely strange.

    In England schools that impose uniforms don't stop a Muslim girl wearing a hijab or a Sikh boy wearing a turban. Girls always have the option to wear trousers too.

    Forcing a student to take off a head scarf or hijab as it's not part of the "uniform" seems like another example of rising extremism in India.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Other muslim sects had repeatedly tried to declare Ahmadiyas as no muslims.

    In British India, the other sects twice lost cases in the high court of Madras and Patna and Ahmadiyas were declared as muslims.

    Even in pakistan they were Muslims till 1974.

    In India, after independence, in 1971 other muslim sects tried to outlaw the Ahmadiyas leading to a court case. The Ahmadiyas defence was led by Mohammad Zafar ullah Khan. The court finally ruled in their favour as they proved that they believe in the Koran and the prophet (pbuh).
    The issue is this matter is Not something of your interest.

    They were not declared disbelievers without a discourse with their head . It was done with proper procedure.

    The Quran has specifically said that Muhammad is the final messenger, the hadeeth says so, not one but several, later on when someone claimed prophethood the companions fought and killed that person. It shows the understanding of the companions.

    Is this believing in Quran?

    Now, I can show you 3 - 5 different Qadiyanis who themselves have claimed prophethood. My question is that if Prophethood has not ended, why does the present Khalifa Masroor Ahmed not accept those claimants and leave his office?

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    Why are these sickos not letting the girls cover their hair? This is a religious fundamental right, nothing to do with 'dress code'!

    And does so called Indian constitution mean diddly squat?

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    Although I don't support any religious dress codes in public, but this is a selective targeting, as expected, by right wing bigots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    I have nothing further to add to this thread.

    All I can say is that the hate for Muslims is real as demonstrated by some of the posters here.

    As many Muslims from India who I know in the Middle East have told me, its better for them to stay quiet or risk being destroyed. I can see why they feel that.
    My experience had been same in North America.

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    There are few issues involved here.

    The protest is made for religious reasons or because the girls are uncomfortable with presence of male teachers?

    If it's former, then in my opinion, let them wear hijab.

    But if it's latter (many girls statement points to it), if it's due to presence of male teacher, then the subject gets changed. It becomes non religious issue rather it is gender issue.

    If the girls are facing improper behavior from the teacher, then complaints should be made and those teachers should be put into enquiry.

    A school is a place where you teach the students to build the nation. If the presence of opposite gender makes you uncomfortable, and you allow it, it will open the flood gates where accommodation in work places and other fields will have to be made since some females will have objection in working with male colleagues.

    That will turn it into 3rd and 4th wave feminism which does discriminate on gender basis.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kroll View Post
    Why are these sickos not letting the girls cover their hair? This is a religious fundamental right, nothing to do with 'dress code'!

    And does so called Indian constitution mean diddly squat?
    If its a fundamental right, they can approach the constitutional court and get an order.

    The Sikhs did it with regards to their Turban.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    I find this extremely strange.

    In England schools that impose uniforms don't stop a Muslim girl wearing a hijab or a Sikh boy wearing a turban. Girls always have the option to wear trousers too.

    Forcing a student to take off a head scarf or hijab as it's not part of the "uniform" seems like another example of rising extremism in India.
    In India most schools, i went to a Army school, cousins went to a missionary one, didn't allow any religious symbol to be worn outside the clothing. No pieces of jewellry were allowed, except a thin earring for girls.

    The uniform was the same for every one. Shirt and trouser for boys, shirt and skirt for girls.

    Only sikhs were allowed the turban, but the turban had to match the colour of the trouser.

    So this is nothing new.

    I live in a state with 30 per cent muslim population, but I didn't see one hijabi girl student in school or med school.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justcrazy View Post
    The issue is this matter is Not something of your interest.

    They were not declared disbelievers without a discourse with their head . It was done with proper procedure.

    The Quran has specifically said that Muhammad is the final messenger, the hadeeth says so, not one but several, later on when someone claimed prophethood the companions fought and killed that person. It shows the understanding of the companions.

    Is this believing in Quran?

    Now, I can show you 3 - 5 different Qadiyanis who themselves have claimed prophethood. My question is that if Prophethood has not ended, why does the present Khalifa Masroor Ahmed not accept those claimants and leave his office?
    I don't know the exact details of the case. If you are interested, i can find the judgement and give it you. Will be interested in your opinion.

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    https://www.timesnownews.com/mirror-...incipal/246487

    Thiruvananthapuram: In a bizarre diktat issued by a government school Principal in Palakkad district of Kerala, students were threatened with expulsion if they came to school with kumkum on their foreheads or sacred threads on their wrists. The principal further told the parents of students that any religious symbols would not be tolerated in the school.
    Rise of anti-Hindu extremism?

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    Hindu students fined for mehandi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    MIG brother, staying quiet or wishing this away is dangerous.

    As you have witnessed the hate is of a dangerous level. They are justifying incitment of hatred and ironically claiming its because they are secular.

    Muslims in India need to oragnise a poltical movement involving Muslims in high ranking positions esp judges, army personell and politcians.

    Forcing a girl to remove a headscarf is a low as one nation get become. Even in the UK the niqab isnt banned.

    We must thank God for not being part of what today is a Hindutva extemist run India.
    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...3.cms?from=mdr

    LONDON: A Sikh student of Indian origin has been excluded from her school in Britain for refusing to take off her iron bangle.

    Authorities at the Aberdare Girls' School in South Wales have barred 14-year-old Sarika Singh from attending her classes temporarily after she declined to remove 'Kara' which is a symbol of her faith, according to media reports.

    "My bangle is very important to me. It reminds me always to do good and not do anything bad, especially with the hands," Sarika w ..

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    Supreme Court Upholds Ban on 'Hijab' or Long Sleeves in AIPMT

    https://www.newindianexpress.com/nat...MT-791410.html

    NEW DELHI: Refuses to entertain plea of an Islamic organisation that Muslim girl applicants be allowed to wear ‘hijab’ (scarf), a customary religious dress, in All India Pre-Medical Entrance Test on Saturday; says faith is different from wearing some kind of cloth.

    "Faith is something different from wearing some kind of cloth," a three-judge bench headed by Chief Justice H L Dattu said, adding the AIPMT was being held again at its direction and some "reasonable restrictions" were needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Balthazar View Post
    Although I don't support any religious dress codes in public, but this is a selective targeting, as expected, by right wing bigots.
    Let's not call this "right-wing", this is fascist.

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    What is it about the hijab that bothers India so much? Clearly is is a form of hatred for Muslims.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

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    Hate speech is a crime in the UK. If we read such speech, ban it. It’s a crime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    In India most schools, i went to a Army school, cousins went to a missionary one, didn't allow any religious symbol to be worn outside the clothing. No pieces of jewellry were allowed, except a thin earring for girls.

    The uniform was the same for every one. Shirt and trouser for boys, shirt and skirt for girls.

    Only sikhs were allowed the turban, but the turban had to match the colour of the trouser.

    So this is nothing new.

    I live in a state with 30 per cent muslim population, but I didn't see one hijabi girl student in school or med school.
    I live in a town which has hardly any Muslims... it's a predominantly Christian and an increasingly Jewish area. There are strict rules on uniform at certain schools but the minority Muslims girls who wear a hijab are allowed to do so.

    I think the problem in India is that schools, Army school or not, that clearly practices discrimination.
    Not unexpected given the hate crime snd rising extreme fascism there.

    I hope you stand against this?
    Last edited by IMMY69; 22nd January 2022 at 22:18.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    I live in a town which has hardly any Muslims... it's a predominantly Christian and an increasingly Jewish area. There are strict rules on uniform at certain schools but the minority Muslims girls who wear a hijab are allowed to do so.

    I think the problem in India is that schools, Army school or not, that clearly practices discrimination.
    Not unexpected given the hate crime snd rising extreme fascism there.

    I hope you stand against this?
    Haha, you are funny Immy bhai. He will hardly admit there is discimination practiced, let alone standing against this.


    Ki Mohammad (saw) sey wafa tu ney tou hum terey hain
    Yeh jahaan cheez kya hai Loh-o-Qalam tere hain

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    Quote Originally Posted by IAJ View Post
    Haha, you are funny Immy bhai. He will hardly admit there is discimination practiced, let alone standing against this.
    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    I live in a town which has hardly any Muslims... it's a predominantly Christian and an increasingly Jewish area. There are strict rules on uniform at certain schools but the minority Muslims girls who wear a hijab are allowed to do so.

    I think the problem in India is that schools, Army school or not, that clearly practices discrimination.
    Not unexpected given the hate crime snd rising extreme fascism there.

    I hope you stand against this?
    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    What is it about the hijab that bothers India so much? Clearly is is a form of hatred for Muslims.
    Quote Originally Posted by Realromeo View Post
    Let's not call this "right-wing", this is fascist.

    2021 - Chhatisgarh - Hindu student was not allowed to enter in school for 2 days for not cutting the braid.

    2018 Kerala - Principal of a Government Higher Secondary School at Elappully, in Palakkad, banned students from wearing Tilak and amulets.

    2017 - Tamil Nadu - St. Joseph school suspended 2 Hindu students for having vibuti on their forehead.

    2017 - Kerala - Christian minority matriculation school at Keezhapudur punished Hindu students for celebrating Diwali at home (not even at school). Students were asked to bow and seek pardon at assembly.

    2016 - Karnataka - Hindu student was expelled from St Vincent Pallotti School of Bengaluru for having a ponytail as per customs.

    2015 - Tamil Nadu - Students fined 500 rupees after traces of Mehandi was found on palms of Hindu students of Doveton Girl’ & Boys’ Hr. Sec. School in Vepery, Chennai.

    2015 - Telangana - 11 year old Hindu girl was punished by making her stand for 2 hrs for wearing Tilak at St. Ann School in Secunderabad.

    2014 - Tamil Nadu - Principal of Mohamedia Higher Secondary School, a government aided school stopped Hindu students wearing tilak from entering school.


    Forget about being symbols being banned, if you go by these incidents where students were punished and fined, you would think that there is rising hate and discrimination against Hindus in India.

    Do you guys admit that Hindus are discriminated and hated in India based on the incidents mentioned above?

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    I live in a town which has hardly any Muslims... it's a predominantly Christian and an increasingly Jewish area. There are strict rules on uniform at certain schools but the minority Muslims girls who wear a hijab are allowed to do so.

    I think the problem in India is that schools, Army school or not, that clearly practices discrimination.
    Not unexpected given the hate crime snd rising extreme fascism there.

    I hope you stand against this?
    If everyone has to obey the rules, how is it discrimination? If hindus were allowed and muslims were not it would be discrimination. Hindus too can wear the tika or the sacred thread on the wrist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    If everyone has to obey the rules, how is it discrimination? If hindus were allowed and muslims were not it would be discrimination. Hindus too can wear the tika or the sacred thread on the wrist.
    You mean can't?


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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    If everyone has to obey the rules, how is it discrimination? If hindus were allowed and muslims were not it would be discrimination. Hindus too can wear the tika or the sacred thread on the wrist.
    So then a Sikh can't wear a turban?

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAJ View Post
    Haha, you are funny Immy bhai. He will hardly admit there is discimination practiced, let alone standing against this.
    You are right!
    But I'd like him to take ownership of his views and just be open about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PakLFC View Post
    What is it about the hijab that bothers India so much? Clearly is is a form of hatred for Muslims.
    It doesn't bother the entire India, it bothers right-wing fascists who are in power. You'd ask how they were elected then, because the opposition party is far weak, corrupt and religion and "patriotism" works in every single country.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAJ View Post
    You mean can't?
    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    So then a Sikh can't wear a turban?
    Hindus can't. Sikhs can because they have a court judgement enforcing this.

    Hindus or muslims or anyone else can move court and if they get a favourable judgement they too can get their wishes enforced.

    If i remember correctly, some years ago hindu parents had approached the court after a hindu girl was punished for wearing the tika.

    While the court pulled up the school for punishing the child and said nothing more than a fine can be imposed, they also made it clear that wearing a tika or a thread on the wrist isn't mandatory for hindus hence they cannot ask the school to allow it.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Hindus can't. Sikhs can because they have a court judgement enforcing this.

    Hindus or muslims or anyone else can move court and if they get a favourable judgement they too can get their wishes enforced.

    If i remember correctly, some years ago hindu parents had approached the court after a hindu girl was punished for wearing the tika.

    While the court pulled up the school for punishing the child and said nothing more than a fine can be imposed, they also made it clear that wearing a tika or a thread on the wrist isn't mandatory for hindus hence they cannot ask the school to allow it.
    Well here is the difference; covering head is mandatory for women based on scholarly consensus. And this from the Quran and Sunna of the Messenger of Allah (bpuh). So they should definately go to the court if they have no other choice.


    Ki Mohammad (saw) sey wafa tu ney tou hum terey hain
    Yeh jahaan cheez kya hai Loh-o-Qalam tere hain

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by kumjsr View Post
    2021 - Chhatisgarh - Hindu student was not allowed to enter in school for 2 days for not cutting the braid.

    2018 Kerala - Principal of a Government Higher Secondary School at Elappully, in Palakkad, banned students from wearing Tilak and amulets.

    2017 - Tamil Nadu - St. Joseph school suspended 2 Hindu students for having vibuti on their forehead.

    2017 - Kerala - Christian minority matriculation school at Keezhapudur punished Hindu students for celebrating Diwali at home (not even at school). Students were asked to bow and seek pardon at assembly.

    2016 - Karnataka - Hindu student was expelled from St Vincent Pallotti School of Bengaluru for having a ponytail as per customs.

    2015 - Tamil Nadu - Students fined 500 rupees after traces of Mehandi was found on palms of Hindu students of Doveton Girl’ & Boys’ Hr. Sec. School in Vepery, Chennai.

    2015 - Telangana - 11 year old Hindu girl was punished by making her stand for 2 hrs for wearing Tilak at St. Ann School in Secunderabad.

    2014 - Tamil Nadu - Principal of Mohamedia Higher Secondary School, a government aided school stopped Hindu students wearing tilak from entering school.


    Forget about being symbols being banned, if you go by these incidents where students were punished and fined, you would think that there is rising hate and discrimination against Hindus in India.

    Do you guys admit that Hindus are discriminated and hated in India based on the incidents mentioned above?
    Yes and everything should have one law. Also
    kindly give links for the above, to verify


    @Swashbuckler @Streetcricketer I hope you see Tamil Nadu’s issues as well, which I have pointing out for 7-8 years to people.

    It’s no coincidence why Surya and his team changed the religion of one character in his movie.

    Just like North is biased against non Hindus, TN has a bias as well.
    Last edited by JaDed; 23rd January 2022 at 21:53.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAJ View Post
    You mean can't?
    Quote Originally Posted by IAJ View Post
    Well here is the difference; covering head is mandatory for women based on scholarly consensus. And this from the Quran and Sunna of the Messenger of Allah (bpuh). So they should definately go to the court if they have no other choice.
    Yes they should approach the court.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    Yes and everything should have one law. Also
    kindly give links for the above, to verify


    @Swashbuckler @Streetcricketer I hope you see Tamil Nadu’s issues as well, which I have pointing out for 7-8 years to people.

    It’s no coincidence why Surya and his team changed the religion of one character in his movie.

    Just like North is biased against non Hindus, TN has a bias as well.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ani...224811%3famp=1

    Opinion on this?

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Yes - it is called secularism, congress style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IAJ View Post
    Well here is the difference; covering head is mandatory for women based on scholarly consensus. And this from the Quran and Sunna of the Messenger of Allah (bpuh). So they should definately go to the court if they have no other choice.
    Mate you need to get the message. It's up to indian courts, presided over by predominantly hindu judges to decide on who gets preferential treatment and who doesn't. We can't argue this, we can only listen to their droning propaganda and try to understand where it's coming from.


    I for one welcome our new In____ overlords - Kent Brockman

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