'Bumrah has less threatening performances than Shaheen in all formats' : Aaqib Javed


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  1. #1
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    'Bumrah has less threatening performances than Shaheen in all formats' : Aaqib Javed

    Comparisons have been common in any form of sport - the past with the present, among the current players, among players from different countries and sometimes of the same team. Former Pakistan pacer Aqib Javed on Sunday compared two young stalwarts of modern-era cricket - Jasprit Bumrah of India and Pakistan sensation Shaheen Shah Afridi. (IPL 2022 FULL COVERAGE)

    Speaking to a media site, the 1992 World Cup-winning cricketer opined that Bumrah's graph has been stable and is a far less aggressive bowler compared to his Pakistan counterpart in Shaheen, who is presently on the rise and has produced more threatening performances across formats than the Indian.

    “The way Haris has bowled in the last few years, his average bowling speed is the fastest in the world. And the aggression he has, the way he runs, the batsman knows that the bowler is running towards him, but Bumrah's isn't that aggressive. And people enjoy these kind of bowlers who have such body language. Shaheen's graph is on the rise, while Bumrah is stable. He has less threatening performances than Shaheen, whether it's in T20s, ODIs or in Tests. And the rise of Pakistan cricket largely has depended on performances from Shaheen, Haris Rauf, Shadab Khan, Babar Azam, Mohammad Rizwan,” he said.

    Shaheen recent bagged the Sir Garfield Sobers Trophy for the ICC Men’s Cricketer of the Year 2021. In the last year, the youngster picked 78 wickets in 36 internationals at an average of 22.20. He also played a pivotal role for Pakistan in their run to the T20 World Cup semi-final in the UAE where he picked seven wickets in six matches which included the wickets of Rohit Sharma, KL Rahul and Virat Kohli in the group-stage match against India.

    Bumrah, who is presently part of the Mumbai Indians squad in IPL 2022, has already represented India in 156 international games, picking 303 wickets.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/crick...869876965.html


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  2. #2
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    Another idiotic statement. Bumrah is million miles ahead of Shaheen in tests it’s not even a comparison.

  3. #3
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    The most terrifying bowling performance of last 5 years was Bumrah's spell against West Indies in WI. Waqaresque!
    So In test matches, Bumrah is more threatening.

    I agree that in Lois Shaheen is more threatening as he regularly picks up wickets with the new ball while Bumrah is someone whom the opposition play out and then he takes wickets in middle and death overs.

  4. #4
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    In terms of wicket taking ability.
    Test: Bumrah > Shaheen
    ODI: Shaheen > Bumrah
    T20: Shaheen > Bumrah

    Bumrah is very economical and hard to play but he lacks the wicket taking ability of Shaheen in white ball cricket. Shaheen has 4 fivers in t20s in his short career while Bumrah doesn't even have one.

  5. #5
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    No need to make silly comparisons, one bowler is at his peak the other is just starting out lets just enjoy both for what they are.

  6. #6
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    Basically Bumrah is a workhorse and shaheen is a wicket taker.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    The most terrifying bowling performance of last 5 years was Bumrah's spell against West Indies in WI. Waqaresque!
    So In test matches, Bumrah is more threatening.

    I agree that in Lois Shaheen is more threatening as he regularly picks up wickets with the new ball while Bumrah is someone whom the opposition play out and then he takes wickets in middle and death overs.
    Please do not insult Waqar again.

    You can criticise his coaching, no problem. Criticise his commentary, I certainly do.

    But don’t compare him to baby pace and baby swing

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    Please do not insult Waqar again.

    You can criticise his coaching, no problem. Criticise his commentary, I certainly do.

    But don’t compare him to baby pace and baby swing
    Except that Bumrah has a better strike and better average than SSA in tests excluding minnows.

  9. #9
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    This comparison makes for a healthy competition.

    But Bumrah has more 'oomph' to his name, with series victories in Australia et al. Shaheen needs to do something like that.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    The most terrifying bowling performance of last 5 years was Bumrah's spell against West Indies in WI. Waqaresque!
    So In test matches, Bumrah is more threatening.

    I agree that in Lois Shaheen is more threatening as he regularly picks up wickets with the new ball while Bumrah is someone whom the opposition play out and then he takes wickets in middle and death overs.
    Why are you even comparing these two bowlers? Just like Haris and Umran, there is an age difference of 6 years between Shaheen and Bumrah.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    Why are you even comparing these two bowlers? Just like Haris and Umran, there is an age difference of 6 years between Shaheen and Bumrah.
    Shouldn’t you be asking Aaqib Javed that?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    Except that Bumrah has a better strike and better average than SSA in tests excluding minnows.
    Don't you know Shaheen is a baby in international cricket? He is just 22.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    Shouldn’t you be asking Aaqib Javed that?
    Once again you are jumping into discussion without any knowledge. There is a thread here regarding Haris and Umran. Look at Saxena sahab's reply when I suggested a comparison thread between Umran and Haris. Aqib Javed isn't the hypocrite here, Saxena sahab is.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    Don't you know Shaheen is a baby in international cricket? He is just 22.
    Never said he doesn’t have the potential to outperform Bumrah in the long run. However, as of now, there is no comparison in test cricket

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    Once again you are jumping into discussion without any knowledge. There is a thread here regarding Haris and Umran. Look at Saxena sahab's reply when I suggested a comparison thread between Umran and Haris. Aqib Javed isn't the hypocrite here, Saxena sahab is.
    Aaqib Jaaved made the comment there, so Saxena is commenting on that. This has nothing to do with any other thread.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    Aaqib Jaaved made the comment there, so Saxena is commenting on that. This has nothing to do with any other thread.
    Another failed attempt. Sameen Rana was comparing Umran vs Haris in that thread not me.

    This has everything to do with the hypocrisy of that poster.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    Never said he doesn’t have the potential to outperform Bumrah in the long run. However, as of now, there is no comparison in test cricket
    What about LOI cricket?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osama Shafeeqe View Post
    In terms of wicket taking ability.
    Test: Bumrah > Shaheen
    ODI: Shaheen > Bumrah
    T20: Shaheen > Bumrah

    Bumrah is very economical and hard to play but he lacks the wicket taking ability of Shaheen in white ball cricket. Shaheen has 4 fivers in t20s in his short career while Bumrah doesn't even have one.
    Only in ODIs is Shaheen slightly better than Bumrah, as per their SRs.

    In T20Is Bumrah has better SR and avg.

  19. #19
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    @jeetu

    Can we have a stats comparison of the two?

  20. #20
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    Bumrah has been downright terrible in the 50 over format for a long time now. Shaheen is certainly better there at least on current form.

    In T20s, SSA has more wicket taking abilities with the new ball but he also is prone to getting clobbered at the death, which is a pretty big minus in this format.

    In tests, it shouldn't even be a debate.

  21. #21
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    Aqib Javed is drinking and smoking the good stuff.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    What about LOI cricket?
    Bumrah has a slight edge in LOI.

    Broken down, Bumrah is clearly better in T20. Better average and economy against non minnows.

    In ODI, they are equal. Afridi has been more of a wicket taker, but expensive. Bumrah has struggled to take wickets upfront, but been very difficult to hit for runs. I consider them equal, because despite being poor the last 2 years, Bumrah has good body of work to give me confidence that he will bounce back.

    However, if the current trajectory continues then SSA will be clearly better in LOIs in a couple of years.

    Bumrah needs to become the wicket tacket upfront. Also Bumrah has been struggling since the last 2 years (IIRC from the ODI series in NZ just before covid hit). If he can’t get his old form back, then SSA will overtake him very very soon. However given that his test mojo is also back, I expect Bumrah to bounce back.
    Last edited by Sidilicious; 25th April 2022 at 20:20.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    Bumrah has a slight edge in LOI.

    Broken down, Bumrah is clearly better in T20. Better average and economy against non minnows.

    In ODI, they are equal. Afridi has been more of a wicket taker, but expensive. Bumrah has struggled to take wickets upfront, but been very difficult to hit for runs. I consider them equal, because despite being poor the last 2 years, Bumrah has good body of work to give me confidence that he will bounce back.

    However, if the current trajectory continues then SSA will be clearly better in LOIs in a couple of years.

    Bumrah needs to become the wicket tacket upfront. Also Bumrah has been struggling since the last 2 years (IIRC from the ODI series in NZ just before covid hit). If he can’t get his old form back, then SSA will overtake him very very soon. However given that his test mojo is also back, I expect Bumrah to bounce back.
    Actually, scrap that. I just saw detailed ODI stats for SSA. He has the edge in ODI. A slight edge

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    Except that Bumrah has a better strike and better average than SSA in tests excluding minnows.
    That may be but don’t call him Waqar-esque

  25. #25
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    Personally even in tests recently. Bumrah was quite underwhelming in the Aus and England series. He struggles to run through teams.

    In fact the most impressive Indian bowler in tests over the last two is Mohammed Siraj.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    Personally even in tests recently. Bumrah was quite underwhelming in the Aus and England series. He struggles to run through teams.

    In fact the most impressive Indian bowler in tests over the last two is Mohammed Siraj.
    That proves that you know jack about bowling.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    That proves that you know jack about bowling.
    Ok - are we going to talk about unluckyness? He makes them play and miss. Trophy for bumrah.
    Someone on commentary says he’s bowling well - trophy for Bumrah

    Even Mohd Sami could write a book about being unlucky.

    Show me some results bumrah

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    @jeetu

    Can we have a stats comparison of the two?
    Player Format Mat Wkts Ave Econ SR 4w 5w 10w
    Afridi FC 31 125 24.01 3.02 47.7 11 5 1
    Bumrah FC 57 215 23.42 2.66 52.6 5 14 0
    Afridi List A 35 64 26.07 5.59 27.9 5 2 0
    Bumrah List A 95 165 22.87 4.47 30.6 8 2 0
    Afridi ODI 30 59 23.86 5.53 25.8 5 2 0
    Bumrah ODI 70 113 25.42 4.65 32.7 5 1 0
    Afridi T20 119 165 20.96 7.7 16.3 1 4 0
    Bumrah T20 201 243 21.72 7.02 18.5 2 0 0
    Afridi T20I 40 47 24.31 7.75 18.8 0 0 0
    Bumrah T20I 57 67 19.89 6.5 18.3 0 0 0
    Afridi Test 24 95 25.08 3.02 49.8 10 4 1
    Bumrah Test 29 123 21.73 2.65 49.2 2 8 0


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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeetu View Post
    Player Format Mat Wkts Ave Econ SR 4w 5w 10w
    Afridi FC 31 125 24.01 3.02 47.7 11 5 1
    Bumrah FC 57 215 23.42 2.66 52.6 5 14 0
    Afridi List A 35 64 26.07 5.59 27.9 5 2 0
    Bumrah List A 95 165 22.87 4.47 30.6 8 2 0
    Afridi ODI 30 59 23.86 5.53 25.8 5 2 0
    Bumrah ODI 70 113 25.42 4.65 32.7 5 1 0
    Afridi T20 119 165 20.96 7.7 16.3 1 4 0
    Bumrah T20 201 243 21.72 7.02 18.5 2 0 0
    Afridi T20I 40 47 24.31 7.75 18.8 0 0 0
    Bumrah T20I 57 67 19.89 6.5 18.3 0 0 0
    Afridi Test 24 95 25.08 3.02 49.8 10 4 1
    Bumrah Test 29 123 21.73 2.65 49.2 2 8 0
    How many tests has Bumrah played in SENA countries as compared to 22 year old youngster Shaheen?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    Ok - are we going to talk about unluckyness? He makes them play and miss. Trophy for bumrah.
    Someone on commentary says he’s bowling well - trophy for Bumrah

    Even Mohd Sami could write a book about being unlucky.

    Show me some results bumrah
    1. Watch the last 2 series in Aus and 2021 in Eng in the matches won by India

    2. Look at the stats

  31. #31
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    They have fairly similar SR but Bumrah is vastly superior economy wise and so far, this remains the big question mark on Shaheen so far. He can certainly take wickets but he also gets destroyed quite often as we saw in the T20 WC.

    Obviously still very young in his career but he is not as good as Bumrah... yet.

  32. #32
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    I am only interested in strike rate. Let’s get some donkey to do the donkey work. Strike bowlers are there to take wickets.

    I wonder who India’s strike bowler to bumrah’s donkey is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    Except that Bumrah has a better strike and better average than SSA in tests excluding minnows.
    But he doesn’t though?

    Bumrah strike rate is almost 50 and Waqar is 43.

    Secondly Bumrah has only played 20 odd test matches and Waqar played 83. Even after Waqars injury his strike rate is better than Bumrahs.

    Also go check Bumrah right now has played 29 matches, check Waqar’s figures after 29 matches. Make sure your sitting down you might collapse


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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    Personally even in tests recently. Bumrah was quite underwhelming in the Aus and England series. He struggles to run through teams.

    In fact the most impressive Indian bowler in tests over the last two is Mohammed Siraj.

    He averaged 20 in the England series and was out top wicket taker.

    He bowled well in Australia too especially in the first two games. Was half fit for the third test but still ended up averaging 29..

    That's certainly not "underwhelming".

    It's very hard to run through a line up by yourselves when you are bowling with Shami, Siraj, Umesh, Ash, Jad etc

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    1. Watch the last 2 series in Aus and 2021 in Eng in the matches won by India

    2. Look at the stats
    How many tests has Shaheen played in SENA countries?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by adzzy786 View Post
    But he doesn’t though?

    Bumrah strike rate is almost 50 and Waqar is 43.

    Secondly Bumrah has only played 20 odd test matches and Waqar played 83. Even after Waqars injury his strike rate is better than Bumrahs.

    Also go check Bumrah right now has played 29 matches, check Waqar’s figures after 29 matches. Make sure your sitting down you might collapse
    I am comparing him to SSA not Waqar.

    Learn to read a bit before coming out with drivel.

    PS Waqar’s strike rate is 46, excluding minnows

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    I am only interested in strike rate. Let’s get some donkey to do the donkey work. Strike bowlers are there to take wickets.

    I wonder who India’s strike bowler to bumrah’s donkey is?
    Doesn’t matter what you care about.

    Bumrah is a proven match winner

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    Doesn’t matter what you care about.

    Bumrah is a proven match winner
    May be According to him if a team scores 300 AO in 70 overs thats better than a team scoring 250 AO in 80 overs because the other team got them out earlier. May be he believes that matches are decided not by who chased the end Target but by who took wickets quickly.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    How many tests has Shaheen played in SENA countries?
    How does that matter.
    These are difficult places to bowl and win, especially Australia.

    Before Bumrah’s debut, India and Pakistan won 3 series each in England and 0 in Australia. Since Bumrah’s debut, he has been part of 2 series wins in Australia and 1 in england (tbc).

    So, it’s easier to get worse the more you bowl

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    May be According to him if a team scores 300 AO in 70 overs thats better than a team scoring 250 AO in 80 overs because the other team got them out earlier. May be he believes that matches are decided not by who chased the end Target but by who took wickets quickly.
    People come up with ridiculous arguments to put Indian bowlers down. Well, if it makes them sleep better!

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    How does that matter.
    These are difficult places to bowl and win, especially Australia.


    Before Bumrah’s debut, India and Pakistan won 3 series each in England and 0 in Australia. Since Bumrah’s debut, he has been part of 2 series wins in Australia and 1 in england (tbc).

    So, it’s easier to get worse the more you bowl
    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    People come up with ridiculous arguments to put Indian bowlers down. Well, if it makes them sleep better!
    What are you doing here then lol? If we are making a comparison why can't I ask about the number of games each has played in SENA? Why does it not matter? You want to compare them but also trying to kill the comparison by doing one sided analysis. Maybe it will make you sleep better?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    What are you doing here then lol? If we are making a comparison why can't I ask about the number of games each has played in SENA? Why does it not matter? You want to compare them but also trying to kill the comparison by doing one sided analysis. Maybe it will make you sleep better?
    Again, what does how many matches one has played in SENA has to do with?

    Counter my argument with a response. Not with your frustration

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    How many tests has Bumrah played in SENA countries as compared to 22 year old youngster Shaheen?
    Bumrah 23 test , avg 24.31
    Afridi 9 test avg 37.56


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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    Again, what does how many matches one has played in SENA has to do with?

    Counter my argument with a response. Not with your frustration
    How can you compare players without stats? Why can't I ask about his stats in SENA or in West Indies/UAE/Sri Lanka? You are the one who is looking frustrated here because you want to compare players without stats or don't want to give a chance to Shaheen to stay in the comparison. Bumrah maybe better than Shaheen currently but we can look at their performances abroad. Shaheen has age on his side and doesn't look like an injury prone bowler. His stats can change pretty quickly so don't underestimate him just because he is from Pakistan.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeetu View Post
    Bumrah 23 test , avg 24.31
    Afridi 9 test avg 37.56
    Thanks for posting the stats without any argument.

  46. #46
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    Another entry to " Ahmed Shahzad has more talent than Sachin Tendulkar " stupid post series by ex Pakistani cricketers

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    Not surprising coming from Aaqib Javed. Even Pakistani fans accept as a junior coach he has has ruined so many promising fast bowlers in Pakistan

    This comment just confirms how stupid he is and ideally should stay away for coaching young fast bowlers in future

  48. #48
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    Ex-Pakistani cricketers are really struggling to accept that India have usurped them by such a distance.

    The sooner these voices quieten down and we embrace reality will we start to implement the neccesary changes to maybe catch up one day.

    If we hold onto false hope like this, PSL having better fast bowlers than IPL and other nonsense then we will stay firmly rooted to our position.

  49. #49
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    Bumrah has been less than impressive than Shah in the past 1 year. Every bowler has to reinvent themselves when their tricks gets exposed. Shah is still young and relatively new to international cricket. How his career shapes will depend on how he reinvents himself 2 years from now.

  50. #50
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    Bumrah ahead - he's six and a half years older as well.

    The ability to take wickets in LOIs is certainly handy, especially with the new ball but posters are underestimating the ability and value of bowling economically - Bumrah is exceptional at it and an is an asset in formats dominated by the bat.

    I think I'd favour economy over wicket-taking (not that Bumrah goes wicketless, his strike rate in all formats for India is top notch).

    Give SSA some more time if the two must be compared.

    Not sure why insecurities trouble former Pak players. SSA is refreshing and an asset for Pak cricket.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunzi View Post
    Bumrah ahead - he's six and a half years older as well.

    The ability to take wickets in LOIs is certainly handy, especially with the new ball but posters are underestimating the ability and value of bowling economically - Bumrah is exceptional at it and an is an asset in formats dominated by the bat.

    I think I'd favour economy over wicket-taking (not that Bumrah goes wicketless, his strike rate in all formats for India is top notch).

    Give SSA some more time if the two must be compared.

    Not sure why insecurities trouble former Pak players. SSA is refreshing and an asset for Pak cricket.
    In that case you can also have Amir in Pakistan team. His criticism has been that he does not pick wickets even though he is economical.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champ_Pal View Post
    In that case you can also have Amir in Pakistan team. His criticism has been that he does not pick wickets even though he is economical.
    Unfortunately he doesn’t do that in tests too. And that’s the problem.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champ_Pal View Post
    In that case you can also have Amir in Pakistan team. His criticism has been that he does not pick wickets even though he is economical.
    Amir isn't really that economical either.

    A comparison between him and Bumrah is illlogical. You've taken a snippet of my post and jumped to an exaggerated conclusion.

    Settle down.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidilicious View Post
    1. Watch the last 2 series in Aus and 2021 in Eng in the matches won by India

    2. Look at the stats
    I watched them, and it was Siraj who got the crucial breakthroughs in England esp in the test that England collapsed in 40 overs.

    In the Aus series it was Siraj who manfully led the attack when bumrah chickened out of the last test

  55. #55
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    Over excited is the word that comes to mind when Bumrah is mentioned by Indian fans, he is good but bowlers like Shami have put similar performances.

    Bumrah is good but not the best, Shaheen has been making more noise for the right reasons.

    Also Babar and Rizwan did play Bumrah quite well.


    'If you cant support us when we lose or draw then dont support us when we win"
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  56. #56
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    I think it is premature to compare the two and unfair as well. Bumrah is in his prime, while Afridi is just starting out.

    But these unfair comparisons seem to be the order here. It used to be Kohli-Babar, then there is Pant-Rizwan and now this.

    Even now Kohli-Babar is not fair as Kohli is past it while Babar is in his prime. Similar with Pant-Rizwan. Rizwan is in his prime while Pant is still young.

    Perhaps the comparisons should be the prime years of these players. Which is usually 27-32.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    In the Aus series it was Siraj who manfully led the attack when bumrah chickened out of the last test
    Bumrah was injured in the last test.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    Please do not insult Waqar again.

    You can criticise his coaching, no problem. Criticise his commentary, I certainly do.

    But don’t compare him to baby pace and baby swing
    100% Agree

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    Please do not insult Waqar again.

    You can criticise his coaching, no problem. Criticise his commentary, I certainly do.

    But don’t compare him to baby pace and baby swing
    It is not his fault at all. He was introduced to cricket through IPL which in reality is artificial cricket. Guys like Waqar, Wasim and Akhtar are mediocre according to these guys.

    We have got 1 decent fast bowler after so many decades and look at the arrogance from our fans.

  60. #60
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    Waqar was never rated by Indian fans bcoz he hardly performed against us. With a test bowling avg of 48 albeit in 4 tests is hardly anything to remember. Then what Ajay Jadeja did that day in Chinnaswamy Stadium was an utter humiliation and Indian fans never rated Waqar after that. By the time 2003 WC came, he was by far the easiest bowler to face from Pak team (like Hasan Ali now).

    I do understand he got some banana swings in England at pace in early 90s but legitimacy of those are in question. I doubt he would get any of that if he was playing today.

    Bumrah has already achieved more in SENA than Waqar ever did and also got better stats. Pak fans unfortunately not able to digest this fact.

    Wasim/Sohaib is highly rated in India though and rightfully so.


  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maher96 View Post
    Over excited is the word that comes to mind when Bumrah is mentioned by Indian fans, he is good but bowlers like Shami have put similar performances.
    Wrong. Since his debut , Bumrah has been better than any other fast bowler in the world barring Pat Cummins.

    Bumrah is good but not the best, Shaheen has been making more noise for the right reasons.
    Shaheen has done nothing in Tests against decent teams. Bowling some good new ball spells in T20s comes nowhere close to performing consistently over a period of time in the longest format.

    Also Babar and Rizwan did play Bumrah quite well.
    In a single T20i. Tells absolutely nothing about either of them or Bumrah.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajdeep View Post
    Waqar was never rated by Indian fans bcoz he hardly performed against us. With a test bowling avg of 48 albeit in 4 tests is hardly anything to remember. Then what Ajay Jadeja did that day in Chinnaswamy Stadium was an utter humiliation and Indian fans never rated Waqar after that. By the time 2003 WC came, he was by far the easiest bowler to face from Pak team (like Hasan Ali now).

    I do understand he got some banana swings in England at pace in early 90s but legitimacy of those are in question. I doubt he would get any of that if he was playing today.

    Bumrah has already achieved more in SENA than Waqar ever did and also got better stats. Pak fans unfortunately not able to digest this fact.

    Wasim/Sohaib is highly rated in India though and rightfully so.

    Even Shoaib isn't rated all that highly after what Sehwag and Dravid did to him in 2003-4.

    The truth is that post Wasim-Waqar , Pakistan's pacers haven't been all that world beating. Those two set the bar so high that no one has been able to reach it.

  63. #63
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    Bumrah has won matches and run through sides in SENA conditions which Shaheen is yet to do so the answer is No.

    As far as Waqar is concerned, he was the biggest beneficiary of ball tampering and hence he can never be rated at same level to McGrath, Marshall, Ambrose, Steyn, Wasim, Donald, Imran, Hadlee and in future Cummins, Bumrah and Rabada. Waqar had more pace at its peak but so does Rabada and Archer but Cummins and Bumrah are better in tests.

    Waqar is at same level to Shaun Pollock, and James Anderson( although latter is far more skillful in specific conditions).

  64. #64
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    In tests currently alongside being one of the best all formats bowler Bumrah is one of the best around based upon the performances he has delivered in places like Australia, England and South Africa. So he has had far more threatening performances in test cricket in than many in last few years.

    Currently the only aspect Shaheen has been more threatening then Bumrah is the new white ball. Other than that whether it comes to test cricket or death bowling in LOIs Bumrah has been more threatening.

    That being said Shaheen is 5-6 years younger than Bumrah, overall less experienced and is yet to touch his peak. Shaheen on his initial SENA tours was much less experienced and developed so other than SA where he averaged 26, he was not able to deliver much but, then dont remember many 20-21 year olds creating much impact in those countries with exceptions aside.

    So not really a comparison from number of aspects however, considering how Shaheen at this age is performing across the formats he is definitely few of the best pacers going around currently overall which is a big achievement considering the fact that he at this age is atleast in the reckoning amongst the pacers who are already at their peaks.

  65. #65
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    Bumrah > Waqar.

    LOL.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    Please do not insult Waqar again.
    Where did I mention Ball tampering?

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaag Viru Bhaag View Post
    Why are you even comparing these two bowlers? Just like Haris and Umran, there is an age difference of 6 years between Shaheen and Bumrah.
    When did I say you can't compare Haris and Usman?

    I just provided you the info that there's a six years gap between them

  68. #68
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    I honestly don't think Bumrah is even close to Shaheen in white ball. Wickets upfront is what decide games and Shaheen is vastly superior to Bumrah in that aspect.

    I've never been impressed by Bumrah in white ball. He doesn't even have a single spell of note at the big stage. On the other hand, he has plenty where he flattered to deceive on the big stage ( 2016 wt20 vs WI, CT17 vs pak, 2021 wt20 vs Pak)

    There are easily half a dozen bowlers if not more who I'd rather have than Bumrah in white ball.
    Shaheen on the other hand would be my 1st choice fast bowler in white ball. I mean if I'm a batsman there's no one else I'd rather avoid facing.

    Bumrah lacks the x factor in white ball, he's much better in tests. High accuracy at good speeds.

    Shaheen is only learning his craft in tests though and is far from the finished product.

    There's a good 6 years between them and Shaheen should be disappointed if he doesn't end up with a better career than Bumrah.

  69. #69
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    Bumrah debuted when he was 22 whereas Shaheen just turned 22 a few weeks ago and has already played 24 test matches and 30 ODI matches, that should show you where their careers stand. If Shaheen keeps improving as he has been and remains injury free he will likely surpass Bumrah quite easily by the time both their careers conclude. Although Shaheen would've benefited immensely if he had good support bowlers bowl with him like Bumrah had the experienced Shami and Umesh bowl with when he was starting his career.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by NishanKonar View Post
    Not surprising coming from Aaqib Javed. Even Pakistani fans accept as a junior coach he has has ruined so many promising fast bowlers in Pakistan

    This comment just confirms how stupid he is and ideally should stay away for coaching young fast bowlers in future
    well he does coach both SSA and Haris Rauf at Lahore Qalandars - both represent Pakistan at international level so Aaqib must be doing something right. Also as their coach if he doesn't back them, who will

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajdeep View Post
    Waqar was never rated by Indian fans bcoz he hardly performed against us. With a test bowling avg of 48 albeit in 4 tests is hardly anything to remember. Then what Ajay Jadeja did that day in Chinnaswamy Stadium was an utter humiliation and Indian fans never rated Waqar after that. By the time 2003 WC came, he was by far the easiest bowler to face from Pak team (like Hasan Ali now).

    I do understand he got some banana swings in England at pace in early 90s but legitimacy of those are in question. I doubt he would get any of that if he was playing today.

    Bumrah has already achieved more in SENA than Waqar ever did and also got better stats. Pak fans unfortunately not able to digest this fact.

    Wasim/Sohaib is highly rated in India though and rightfully so.

    Bumrah averages 48.75 against Pakistan in ODIs in 5 innings and he averages exactly 31 in 2 T20 innings against Pakistan. Going by your logic no Pakistani should respect Bumrah despite the small sample size because he's been one the easiest bowlers to face from India's bowling lineup due to his lack of wicket-taking ability.

    In fact, tendulkar only averaged 42 against Pakistan in tests despite playing in an era that's known for its flat pitches. We shouldn't respect tendulkar according to your logic, right?

    Indians must be obsessed Imran Khan because he had a batting average of 51.95 and a bowling average of 24.04 against india right? Not to mention Imran Khan never lost a test match against india as test captain. I can't imagine the amount of respect you guys must have for him.

    Your logic isn't sound. Great players don't have to amazing every match they play, taking 4 matches out of Waqar's career of 87 test matches in an attempt to dismiss his achievements is a pity.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by daytrader View Post
    well he does coach both SSA and Haris Rauf at Lahore Qalandars - both represent Pakistan at international level so Aaqib must be doing something right. Also as their coach if he doesn't back them, who will
    Both Haris Rauf and SSA are bang average in test cricket - the true test of a fast bowler. They are good in T20s but a fast bowler needs to prove themselves in test cricket

    Of course a coach needs to back his wards but this is pure delusional level. I mean why will SSA feel motivated to better himself if he thinks he is allready better than others !
    Last edited by NishanKonar; 26th April 2022 at 17:52.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hextro View Post
    Bumrah debuted when he was 22 whereas Shaheen just turned 22 a few weeks ago and has already played 24 test matches and 30 ODI matches, that should show you where their careers stand. If Shaheen keeps improving as he has been and remains injury free he will likely surpass Bumrah quite easily by the time both their careers conclude. Although Shaheen would've benefited immensely if he had good support bowlers bowl with him like Bumrah had the experienced Shami and Umesh bowl with when he was starting his career.
    The problem is if a Pakistani cricketer says he is 22 years old - most likely he is 27-28

    Even Naseem Shah said he was 17 when he made his debut. Nobody outside Pakistan takes these ages seriously

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by NishanKonar View Post
    The problem is if a Pakistani cricketer says he is 22 years old - most likely he is 27-28

    Even Naseem Shah said he was 17 when he made his debut. Nobody outside Pakistan takes these ages seriously
    So you believe that Shaheen is 27-28 years old? Why do you have to resort to nonsense if you don't have an argument? If you believe that Shaheen is older than his stated age provide evidence in form of pictures or birth documents, if you don't have evidence please reframe from making false allegations just to make bumrah look better.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeteshssaxena View Post
    The most terrifying bowling performance of last 5 years was Bumrah's spell against West Indies in WI. Waqaresque!
    So In test matches, Bumrah is more threatening.

    I agree that in Lois Shaheen is more threatening as he regularly picks up wickets with the new ball while Bumrah is someone whom the opposition play out and then he takes wickets in middle and death overs.
    in that one series, i think in early 2019 in WI, he simply detonated the stumps like waqar. He bowled at his best, pace upto 150kmph, the balls tailed in late, he was always yorker length and thereabouts.
    A pity that his back injury was immediately after that series and he has not been the same. However, that does not mean he is bowling pies, just that he has not hit the high of that wi series -but still was pretty effective in helping us win in a lot of places
    the comparison with SSA? i dont know about that but in tests most batsmen would rather face SSA than jazzboom, in white ball cric-its different though

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hextro View Post
    So you believe that Shaheen is 27-28 years old? Why do you have to resort to nonsense if you don't have an argument? If you believe that Shaheen is older than his stated age provide evidence in form of pictures or birth documents, if you don't have evidence please reframe from making false allegations just to make bumrah look better.
    Seems to be standard practice.


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrIc_Mystique View Post
    in that one series, i think in early 2019 in WI, he simply detonated the stumps like waqar. He bowled at his best, pace upto 150kmph, the balls tailed in late, he was always yorker length and thereabouts.
    A pity that his back injury was immediately after that series and he has not been the same. However, that does not mean he is bowling pies, just that he has not hit the high of that wi series -but still was pretty effective in helping us win in a lot of places
    the comparison with SSA? i dont know about that but in tests most batsmen would rather face SSA than jazzboom, in white ball cric-its different though

    This is pure fiction. He did not bowl anywhere near 150 k.

    He wasn't even bowling at a pace which can be considered fast by any means.

    You can have a look for yourself and stop making wild claims.

    These are his average and highest speeds in that West Indies series from the official icc site.

    1st Test: avg/highest

    1st innings- 133.9/141.7
    2nd innings- 134.5/139.0

    2nd Test :

    1st innings - 137.3/145.7
    2nd innings -134.9/142.8


    Yeah, these speeds can't be called fast by any stretch and here you are making him out to be some speed demon.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajdeep View Post
    Waqar was never rated by Indian fans bcoz he hardly performed against us. With a test bowling avg of 48 albeit in 4 tests is hardly anything to remember. Then what Ajay Jadeja did that day in Chinnaswamy Stadium was an utter humiliation and Indian fans never rated Waqar after that. By the time 2003 WC came, he was by far the easiest bowler to face from Pak team (like Hasan Ali now).

    I do understand he got some banana swings in England at pace in early 90s but legitimacy of those are in question. I doubt he would get any of that if he was playing today.

    Bumrah has already achieved more in SENA than Waqar ever did and also got better stats. Pak fans unfortunately not able to digest this fact.

    Wasim/Sohaib is highly rated in India though and rightfully so.

    Waqar never played India when he was at his best because india avoided playing pak like the plague at that time.

    I seriously doubt Indians sat there and calculated his average lol

    Bumrah has done nothing compared to Waqar.

    Waqar - express pace, pioneering swing

    Bumrah - baby pace, baby swing

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    Waqar never played India when he was at his best because india avoided playing pak like the plague at that time.

    I seriously doubt Indians sat there and calculated his average lol

    Bumrah has done nothing compared to Waqar.

    Waqar - express pace, pioneering swing

    Bumrah - baby pace, baby swing
    Bumrah has won more test matches in SENA in 4 years than Waqar and Wasim did in their entire careers

  80. #80
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    Newsflash - It's quite possible that Bumrah and Shaheen ( and somehow people are including the legend Waqar) are all very good bowlers.

    There is no need to pick and choose and belittle one to pump up the other.

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