"We wanted to create pacy wickets for Indian batters & scare them with sheer pace": Shoaib Akhtar


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  1. #1
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    "We wanted to create pacy wickets for Indian batters & scare them with sheer pace": Shoaib Akhtar

    The Indian national cricket team toured Pakistan in the 2003–04 cricket season for a series comprising five ODIs and three Tests. India went on to win the ODI series 3-2 and the Test series 2-1. Former Pakistan speedster Shoaib Akhtar recalled his memories from the tour and revealed how the green men had plans for their arch-rivals in the Test series in 2004.

    “The plan was to beat the Indian team psychologically in the Test series in 2004. We wanted to create pacy wickets for Indian batters and scare them with sheer pace, Akhtar said in an interaction with former India cricketer Mohammad Kaif, who was also part of that tour.

    Kaif also described the love and respect which Indian players got on their Pakistan tour in 2004. “We got a lot of love and respect in Pakistan during our tour. Not only me, Sachin, Dravid, Ganguly everyone will say the same about that tour”

    “We had to take permission to go out for shopping. But when I went shopping, no one was ready to take money. Everyone used to say – you have come from India to play cricket, you are our guests,” he added.

    Kaif also recalled another tale about Akhtar from the India Pakistan match in the 2003 World Cup in Centurion where Akhtar was so tired after his fiery bowling spell in the match, that he and Sachin Tendulkar ran four as the Pakistan speedster gave chase to a ball.

    “During the 2003 World Cup match against Pakistan, Shoaib Akhtar chased a ball that was going towards the boundary. We ran four! After his (Akhtar’s) spell, Sachin flicked a ball and Akhtar gave chase from mid-on towards the mid-wicket boundary. I clearly remember that we ran four.”

    https://indianexpress.com/article/sp...-2004-7916902/


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    Pakistan got innings defeated twice in a space of 3 tests on flat roads (Multan, Rawalpindi).

    Imagine what would have happened on pacy wickets.


    Have some Sehwag in your life.

  3. #3
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    If the pitches had been right, I feel Pakistan would have been on top in this series. Toss was a huge factor.


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    I don’t quite understand this article and what it’s actually trying to say.

    We didn’t even prepare pacy pitches. He prepared absolute roads for the 1st and 3rd tests. The second test pitch had more in it for the bowlers and Pakistan duly won as expected.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    I don’t quite understand this article and what it’s actually trying to say.

    We didn’t even prepare pacy pitches. He prepared absolute roads for the 1st and 3rd tests. The second test pitch had more in it for the bowlers and Pakistan duly won as expected.
    Think what he is saying is that we WANTED to do that to scare Indian batters but that did not happen


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    India had just returned from drawing a series in Australia, Lee and Gillespie were bowling. Dont understand this scare. What was he thinking, he would be bowling to minnows?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Think what he is saying is that we WANTED to do that to scare Indian batters but that did not happen
    Thanks Mig that makes more sense now.

  8. #8
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    If there were pacy pitches. Shoaib / Sami 95-100mph uff! What a sight it would have been to see them hopping around.

    I think Rambo as CEO and his jeet-lo dil mindset, he played right in to their hands. More interested in Pakistan’s image as fantastic hosts than winning the series. Much like the recent series vs Aus

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    India had just returned from drawing a series in Australia, Lee and Gillespie were bowling. Dont understand this scare. What was he thinking, he would be bowling to minnows?
    Lee wasn’t as intelligent a test bowler as Shoaib and Gillespie was baby pace

  10. #10
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    India came into the series as clear favorites I remember. They were very strong. Pak was able to give India a good fight in the ODI series but the test series was pretty dour for me apart from that Umar Gul spell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    Lee wasn’t as intelligent a test bowler as Shoaib and Gillespie was baby pace
    Gillespie was legit fast. Check out the fastest balls ever bowled. Gillespie is a top name on that list after Akhtar, Lee, and Hayward.

    https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/co...rds/95065.html
    Last edited by BreadPakoda; 15th May 2022 at 04:42.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Gillespie was legit fast. Check out the fastest balls ever bowled. Gillespie is a top name on that list after Akhtar, Lee, and Hayward.

    https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/co...rds/95065.html
    Leave fast, Gillespie has almost same number of test wickets as Akhtar and Sami combined.

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    Nahh not really, Pakistan would've got smashed on bouncy wickets as well vs the Indians.

    LOL Malcolm Sami was always a JUNK bowler all of his career, all Pakistan had was Shoaib in that series taking on an in form, Sehwag, SRT, Dravid who was coming of a draw on Aussie wickets..

    Whatever bouncy wickets Pakistan would've served wouldn't have been close to the ones India received in Aus facing better bowlers.

    Lee = Same pace and quality as Akhtar,
    Gillespie = a tad slower than Lee but bowls Mcgrath line,
    Stuart Macgill = better spinner than any spinner Pak had at the time


    Come on ppl, enough with the jokes now, that Pakistan side was never good enough to take the test series against that Indian side....


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    India's batting was stronger, that made the difference.

    Faster pitches would have made the series more interesting and lively.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romali_rotti View Post
    Nahh not really, Pakistan would've got smashed on bouncy wickets as well vs the Indians.

    LOL Malcolm Sami was always a JUNK bowler all of his career, all Pakistan had was Shoaib in that series taking on an in form, Sehwag, SRT, Dravid who was coming of a draw on Aussie wickets..

    Whatever bouncy wickets Pakistan would've served wouldn't have been close to the ones India received in Aus facing better bowlers.

    Lee = Same pace and quality as Akhtar,
    Gillespie = a tad slower than Lee but bowls Mcgrath line,
    Stuart Macgill = better spinner than any spinner Pak had at the time


    Come on ppl, enough with the jokes now, that Pakistan side was never good enough to take the test series against that Indian side....
    And yet this loser of a side still thrashed india in the second test when there was a little in the pitch.

    And btw,

    Lee - same pace yes, but shoaib - different gravy

    Gillespie - forever the nearly man - over reliant on Warne and Mcgrath who weren’t there.

    One dimensional McGill. Yea cheers.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    And yet this loser of a side still thrashed india in the second test when there was a little in the pitch.

    And btw,

    Lee - same pace yes, but shoaib - different gravy

    Gillespie - forever the nearly man - over reliant on Warne and Mcgrath who weren’t there.

    One dimensional McGill. Yea cheers.
    Lol. Shoaib got so depressed with repeated thrashings during that series, that he faked an injury mid way during the 3rd test and walked off

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by NishanKonar View Post
    Lol. Shoaib got so depressed with repeated thrashings during that series, that he faked an injury mid way during the 3rd test and walked off
    Yes of course because a cracked rib is a fake injury. This was proven with x rays.

    But thanks for your input Nishan Kumar

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    And yet this loser of a side still thrashed india in the second test when there was a little in the pitch.

    And btw,

    Lee - same pace yes, but shoaib - different gravy

    Gillespie - forever the nearly man - over reliant on Warne and Mcgrath who weren’t there.

    One dimensional McGill. Yea cheers.
    Errrr yeah ok..


    Where is the mention of the legendary Malcolm sami

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    Yes of course because a cracked rib is a fake injury. This was proven with x rays.

    But thanks for your input Nishan Kumar
    Yeah and then came out to bat next day with a cracked rib and scored 30 odd runs

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by NishanKonar View Post
    Yeah and then came out to bat next day with a cracked rib and scored 30 odd runs
    Completely different than putting your body through the rigours of bowling 100mph. I wouldn’t expect Indian fans to understand the mechanics as you’ve never had an express test bowler

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romali_rotti View Post
    Errrr yeah ok..


    Where is the mention of the legendary Malcolm sami
    What about him? On a bouncy pitch he had the Aussies hopping a few times, why couldn’t he do the same to the Indian FTB on a bouncy pitch.

    Your much vaunted FTBs got dealt with by a green Umar Gul with a smidgen in the pitch.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    What about him? On a bouncy pitch he had the Aussies hopping a few times, why couldn’t he do the same to the Indian FTB on a bouncy pitch.

    LOL... Malcolm Sami was so junk, it was an open buffet for Indians on most occasions on tests/ODIs ...


    Your much vaunted FTBs got dealt with by a green Umar Gul with a smidgen in the pitch.

    The wicket had seam movement, it wasn't a pacy wicket, it don't matter, Indians were too good for Pakistan in that tour, 2-1 scorecard..

    Whatever Pacy wickets Pakistan could create would not be upto par of what Aus dished out to India on the tour before Pak...

    Aus couldn't even beat that Indian side for the series when they had Gilly, Hayden, Waugh, Damien Martyn, Gillespie, Lee, Mcgill. So what chance would a side with a Malcolm Sami have to win a series against the Indians

    ....


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  23. #23
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    Pacy wickets with bounce don’t suit Pakistan team at all. Just need to look at their horrendous record in Australia.

    Pakistani bowlers do not have the brains to utilize the pace and bounce and their batsmen are like scared kittens on such wickets.
    Last edited by BreadPakoda; 16th May 2022 at 08:47.

  24. #24
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    Lol. Fast, bouncy wickets have never helped Pakistan. Least of all when you bowl the crap that Shoaib bowled in that series.


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Pacy wickets with bounce don’t suit Pakistan team at all. Just need to look at their horrendous record in Australia.

    Pakistani bowlers do not have the brains to utilize the pace and bounce and their batsmen are like scared kittens on such wickets.
    That’s because the Aussies have the bowlers to take advantage of it. Who did india have in 2004 to take advantage of bouncy conditions - Balaji and Pathan. Demons I tell you!

    Pull the other one

  26. #26
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    Wishful thinking to suggest that Pakistan lost the series due to the wickets. India were a significantly stronger Test side than Pakistan, and they should have won the series 3-0.

    There was little to separate between the two sides in ODIs though, and Pakistan should have wrapped up the series after being 2-1 up in Peshawar and reducing India to 90/4 in pursuit of 290 in Lahore in the fourth ODI.

    Pakistan had the first ODI in the bag as well at one point, they needed run a ball before Kaif took a blinder to dismiss Malik.

    However, the gulf between the two teams in Test cricket was pretty obvious.

    Pakistan were stronger in 2005 and 2006 thanks to Younis taking his Test batting to a higher level and the emergence of Asif.

  27. #27
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    A gulf between teams is normally reflected in the score line.

    A big gulf as some are saying results in series scores of 3-0, 4-1 etc etc. You can’t get thrashed in a live test by 9 wickets (not a dead rubber) and say there’s a big gulf between teams.

    The series was 1-1 going in to the final test. And in scenarios such as that it implies that intangibles such as pitches, ability to handle pressure etc - they all play a part.

    Where Pakistan probably lost the series was that the bowling was a bit overzealous at times - much like how we have been in world cups vs india too. Intangibles

    Not a clear difference in quality.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romali_rotti View Post
    ....
    You’re talking about who was playing roti boy, not who wasn’t.

    Any series without both Warne and mcgrath is the same as saying you played a completely different team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Wishful thinking to suggest that Pakistan lost the series due to the wickets. India were a significantly stronger Test side than Pakistan, and they should have won the series 3-0.

    There was little to separate between the two sides in ODIs though, and Pakistan should have wrapped up the series after being 2-1 up in Peshawar and reducing India to 90/4 in pursuit of 290 in Lahore in the fourth ODI.

    Pakistan had the first ODI in the bag as well at one point, they needed run a ball before Kaif took a blinder to dismiss Malik.

    However, the gulf between the two teams in Test cricket was pretty obvious.

    Pakistan were stronger in 2005 and 2006 thanks to Younis taking his Test batting to a higher level and the emergence of Asif.
    Hard to argue with India being the better test side in 2004. Pakistan had enough batting not to get rolled over though, a drawn series should have been easily within their grasp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitthestump View Post
    Hard to argue with India being the better test side in 2004. Pakistan had enough batting not to get rolled over though, a drawn series should have been easily within their grasp.
    I’m talking about the alleged gulf in quality that others are talking about. On batting pitches yes they had the edge and it showed in the results.

    India’s seam-up bowling was really very average when you look at them in isolation and of course they had kumble that helped in the SC. Pakistan just bowled average but they clearly had the better attack.

    The tangibles were in India’s favour and the discussion in this thread is what if there were more sporting pitches.

    Rambo again trying to win hearts and minds with his pitch prep

  31. #31
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    And for the Indians - just because you toured Aus doesnT necessarily mean that you played on “bouncy” pitches.

    The Adelaide oval where india won was a flat pitch with little assistance for the bowlers. If you want to watch again or read the match report go read it.

    Melbourne had a bit of bounce. Sehwag was smacked on the helmet twice by Brett Lee. Furtgermore india were bowled over by the demons Nathan Bracken and Brad Williams in the second innings and Australia duly knocked off the runs to win the match quite easily.

    Sydney was as usual very similar to subcontinent conditions and surprise surprise there was no game at Perth!

    So do your research kids before making bold statements with me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    And for the Indians - just because you toured Aus doesnT necessarily mean that you played on “bouncy” pitches.

    The Adelaide oval where india won was a flat pitch with little assistance for the bowlers. If you want to watch again or read the match report go read it.

    Melbourne had a bit of bounce. Sehwag was smacked on the helmet twice by Brett Lee. Furtgermore india were bowled over by the demons Nathan Bracken and Brad Williams in the second innings and Australia duly knocked off the runs to win the match quite easily.

    Sydney was as usual very similar to subcontinent conditions and surprise surprise there was no game at Perth!

    So do your research kids before making bold statements with me.
    You’re being salty because “India ne Pakistan ko ghar mei ghus ke maara”. As if Malcom Sami’s test record was anything special.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    You’re being salty because “India ne Pakistan ko ghar mei ghus ke maara”. As if Malcom Sami’s test record was anything special.
    Yes very witty - now enough of the flirting and prove my point (that you’ve quoted) wrong

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    Yes very witty - now enough of the flirting and prove my point (that you’ve quoted) wrong
    You have no point. You were also the one calling Gillespie baby pace. I doubt you’ve watched any of these cricketers.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    You’re talking about who was playing roti boy, not who wasn’t.

    Any series without both Warne and mcgrath is the same as saying you played a completely different team.
    Oh post pf the year for me.


    Gillespie was not as good as Malcolm Sami,

    Shoiab akhtar was better than Lee

    INzi was better Ponting, Hayden, Gilly and co.




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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    And for the Indians - just because you toured Aus doesnT necessarily mean that you played on “bouncy” pitches.

    The Adelaide oval where india won was a flat pitch with little assistance for the bowlers. If you want to watch again or read the match report go read it.

    Melbourne had a bit of bounce. Sehwag was smacked on the helmet twice by Brett Lee. Furtgermore india were bowled over by the demons Nathan Bracken and Brad Williams in the second innings and Australia duly knocked off the runs to win the match quite easily.

    Sydney was as usual very similar to subcontinent conditions and surprise surprise there was no game at Perth!

    So do your research kids before making bold statements with me.
    Err what about Brisbane sunshine?

    Ganguly and Laxman both scored on the bounciest wicket in Aus. The match was both neck and neck and wouldve definetly produced a result if time wasn't lost to rain...

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romali_rotti View Post
    Err what about Brisbane sunshine?

    Ganguly and Laxman both scored on the bounciest wicket in Aus. The match was both neck and neck and wouldve definetly produced a result if time wasn't lost to rain...
    I would have thought you knew that the Brisbane wicket strangely that year was a green top that favoured swing bowling rather than pace and bounce. So much so that Brett Lee wasn’t even selected and india had to face the likes of Bichel, Bracken and Gillespie.

    The other thing in that match was rain curtailed the middle of the match. India decided very early to play for the draw so batter well - albeit against a 3rd string Aus bowling attack.

    Do some research first roti boy

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    You have no point. You were also the one calling Gillespie baby pace. I doubt you’ve watched any of these cricketers.
    Now now, I told you no flirting - just provide me with some substance.

    Anyone who has watched the game knows Gillespie was sharp but not express - pace was there but baby pace

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    I would have thought you knew that the Brisbane wicket strangely that year was a green top that favoured swing bowling rather than pace and bounce. So much so that Brett Lee wasn’t even selected and india had to face the likes of Bichel, Bracken and Gillespie.

    Do you know why Lee was not selected >? He was not match fit yet, he had an abdominal injury and was working his way back after playing a few domestic matches to prove his international match fitness. If he was fit for Brisbane, he would have been playing, it had nothing to do with not being selected because of Bichel and Bracken being the better bowlers.



    The other thing in that match was rain curtailed the middle of the match. India decided very early to play for the draw so batter well - albeit against a 3rd string Aus bowling attack.

    I forgot to mention in my earlier post, Zaheer's injury after the first innings really hamstrung the Indians, he single handedly took the Aussie batters out in the 1st innings and could barely bowl in the second innings.

    The match lost a lot of time due to the stop start stop start rain interruptions, I feel Indians wouldve still won the match had a target been set with enough overs to play.



    Do some research first roti boy
    Either way, this is cruel to Argue with a Pakistani who has not sniffed a test draw or win in Australia since how long ???

    Well, so it is settled, Indian bats would've taken care of Malcolm Sami and Co on the bounciest wickets of Pakistan which happen to not be as bouncy as the Aussie ones which the Indians got.

    But Credit where it is due, Shoib would have given Indians some problems but Indians take the series either way on the supposed bouncier Pakistani wickets, had it been dished out..


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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romali_rotti View Post
    Either way, this is cruel to Argue with a Pakistani who has not sniffed a test draw or win in Australia since how long ???

    Well, so it is settled, Indian bats would've taken care of Malcolm Sami and Co on the bounciest wickets of Pakistan which happen to not be as bouncy as the Aussie ones which the Indians got.

    But Credit where it is due, Shoib would have given Indians some problems but Indians take the series either way on the supposed bouncier Pakistani wickets, had it been dished out..
    The problem here is you haven’t really proved anything about bouncy pitches etc. The 2003 Aus - India series cannot be used as a barometer for how well India play true express pace on bouncy pitches. There’s weren’t any bouncy pitches and apart from as you said a recovering Lee there weren’t true express bowlers either.

    Look man, I know I’ve given you a bit of stick here, on a serious note I acknowledge that india had a better batting line up than Pak. India on flat pitches were a better side than pak. Some of us feel a bit more pace and bounce would have helped the fastest attack in the world at the time.

    One thing I take exception to is people making statements without qualification. Playing in Australia doesn’t mean every pitch is a bouncy one - and they didn’t even play in Perth.

    And I’ve just provided you details of why. Not to mention that the Aus attack was second string too.

    If you want to argue, go ahead, but you need more solid arguments.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    If there were pacy pitches. Shoaib / Sami 95-100mph uff! What a sight it would have been to see them hopping around.

    I think Rambo as CEO and his jeet-lo dil mindset, he played right in to their hands. More interested in Pakistan’s image as fantastic hosts than winning the series. Much like the recent series vs Aus
    Sami was bowling half vollies
    What pitch you're talking about?He was taking pitch out of equation with his usual trash bowling
    Gul looked the best,though

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    The problem here is you haven’t really proved anything about bouncy pitches etc. The 2003 Aus - India series cannot be used as a barometer for how well India play true express pace on bouncy pitches. There’s weren’t any bouncy pitches and apart from as you said a recovering Lee there weren’t true express bowlers either.

    Look man, I know I’ve given you a bit of stick here, on a serious note I acknowledge that india had a better batting line up than Pak. India on flat pitches were a better side than pak. Some of us feel a bit more pace and bounce would have helped the fastest attack in the world at the time.

    One thing I take exception to is people making statements without qualification. Playing in Australia doesn’t mean every pitch is a bouncy one - and they didn’t even play in Perth.

    And I’ve just provided you details of why. Not to mention that the Aus attack was second string too.

    If you want to argue, go ahead, but you need more solid arguments.
    But that second string attack was playing at home supposedly against a SC side.No?
    We have seen many times ,sides compelled to go with near second string/second string attacks at home and still end up winning series
    They still had Gillespie,Lee frm second test,Bichel,Mcgill(second best leg spinner after Warne who had troubled most sides despite being one)
    Pakistan attack wasn't real quality to tame Indian batting in normal pitches
    Yes we lost second test which had little spice,but Indian sides then used to do well in bowler friendly pitches more than flatter ones as it brought their relatively weak bowling into the picture
    Infact mantra to defeat Indian side in those days was to prepare flat wickets given you had good bowling
    Pakistan bowling wasn't even good enough at home conditions to cash in that condition,so they went through the motions
    Try something better mate
    Last edited by ufcfan; 18th May 2022 at 10:28.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ufcfan View Post
    But that second string attack was playing at home supposedly against a SC side.No?
    We have seen many times ,sides compelled to go with near second string/second string attacks at home and still end up winning series
    They still had Gillespie,Lee frm second test,Bichel,Mcgill(second best leg spinner after Warne who had troubled most sides despite being one)
    Pakistan attack wasn't real quality to tame Indian batting in normal pitches
    Yes we lost second test which had little spice,but Indian sides then used to do well in bowler friendly pitches more than flatter ones as it brought their relatively weak bowling into the picture
    Infact mantra to defeat Indian side in those days was to prepare flat wickets given you had good bowling
    Pakistan bowling wasn't even good enough at home conditions to cash in that condition,so they went through the motions
    Try something better mate
    You’re not making any sense here.

    On the one hand you’re saying India lost to Pakistan because of the more spicy pitch. Then you’re saying a spicy pitch is more to India’s advantage.

    Then you’re saying the Pakistan attack
    wasn’t good enough to take advantage in those conditions. Which conditions? Flat conditions? Spicy conditions? I mean what is your actual point here?

    Digest your thoughts kid. Make a better and a clearer argument and then get back to me.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSultan View Post
    The problem here is you haven’t really proved anything about bouncy pitches etc. The 2003 Aus - India series cannot be used as a barometer for how well India play true express pace on bouncy pitches. There’s weren’t any bouncy pitches and apart from as you said a recovering Lee there weren’t true express bowlers either.

    Look man, I know I’ve given you a bit of stick here, on a serious note I acknowledge that india had a better batting line up than Pak. India on flat pitches were a better side than pak. Some of us feel a bit more pace and bounce would have helped the fastest attack in the world at the time.

    One thing I take exception to is people making statements without qualification. Playing in Australia doesn’t mean every pitch is a bouncy one - and they didn’t even play in Perth.

    And I’ve just provided you details of why. Not to mention that the Aus attack was second string too.

    If you want to argue, go ahead, but you need more solid arguments.
    I feel I have made solid arguments.

    Your whole point was Pakistani bouncy wickets would have made a difference, I said it wouldnt.

    The Melbourne wicket had bounce, Brisbane did, Sydney did as well. If any wicket was a little on the less bouncy side it would have been Adelaide.

    I saw that whole Sydney test match and that wicket had a lot of juice in it, those Sydney wickets of the early 2000s had a lot of life in it..



    Pakistani bowling barring Shoib was really nothing to write home about, and I fail to see how a Pakistani or an Indian wicket can be as bouncy or even have more bounce than any aussie wickets in those days.


    "You want Philly, Philly ? " Nicholas Edward Foles

  45. #45
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    The two Test victories against India in 2004 and 2006 at Lahore and Karachi were on slow, green wickets that eventually flattened out.

    That should've been the template.

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