[VIDEOS] Umran Malik's selection, premature?


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  1. #1
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    [VIDEOS] Umran Malik's selection, premature?

    No one expected this. We all thought that bcci is not like pcb and they would develop the player before getting him selected, but he has been added in the indian team.

    We all critisized pcb for haris rauf, musa, hasnain, naseem and even shaheen, when they came into the team prematurely or on the basis of judt t20 league

    Has BCCI made the same mistake?


    The first and only PM of Pakistan to lose the peoples confidence = Imran Khan

  2. #2
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    If someone bowls genuinely quick, it's often a good idea to "pick 'em while they're ripe".

    Worked with Mohammad Amir (he was 150k in Australia) & many others from many nations. The pace may or may not last, but the skills learnt might.

    Oz didn't waste much time getting Brett Lee & Shaun Tait into international cricket.

    The guy is 22 (at least)- how much older does he need to be?

    If you want pace, chuck him in & tell him to bow fast, forget about the rest. Just don't expect him to lead the attack.

    Tell him you WANT that pace to unsettle, if he's expensive who cares he'll get another bowl later when it suits him.

  3. #3
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    Indian players are more matured than our players. thanks to BCCI and their culture. That’s why Prasad is far more effective as a bowler than Waqar, Tendulkar than Saqlain/Ajmal.

  4. #4
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    Bcci usually doesn't pick players like this. The last one i remember was Tendulkar who was picked after 1 season of proper FC cricket.

    But Umran is something Indian Cricket has never had. An express bowler. You need to play these guys early, so that most of their peak years are used in international cricket.

    Lee Akhtar Tait all made their debut at age 22.

  5. #5
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    A 155kph bowler is an exception for Indian Cricket, and his early selection is an justified exception too. I am still doubtful he will get an opportunity to play though.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shafi View Post
    Indian players are more matured than our players. thanks to BCCI and their culture. Thatís why Prasad is far more effective as a bowler than Waqar, Tendulkar than Saqlain/Ajmal.
    Iím assuming this is sarcasm!

  7. #7
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    Umran Malik's List A economy rate is 9.8 and T20 economy rate is 8.83.

    Seems quite expensive.

    Pace without good control is counterproductive.

    But, he is a good prospect. No doubt.


    Bangladeshi Guy

  8. #8
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    He's 22 and ready now. Plus we need a major injection of youth as we have quite a few uncles and have not had any new comers for some time, with the likes of same old Sir Bhuvi Sobers and the IPL Supremo DK who people think is the second coming and morphing of viv richards and adam gilchrist.
    Bhuvi would be personally responsible for blocking the development of several young guys and should have been laid to pasture after 2018 Champions trophy. am sure he knows someone high up in the BCCI to get consistently selected year after year of 120kmph pathetic donkey drops that bounce twice before the keeper scoops it up from the floor!
    Its high time BCCI brings in Mavi, Tyagi, Kuldeep Sen, Raj hangar, mohsin and these type of guys and its the correct step to select Umran
    Umran's job profile should be just bowl quick, bowl at their body-like an enforcer- dont care if it disappears for a few, as if he gets it right he will be a handful. I'd also pick him in the England test, just the thought of Jazzboom and him opening with shami/siraj as backup is super tantalizing in eng conditions.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shafi View Post
    Indian players are more matured than our players. thanks to BCCI and their culture. That’s why Prasad is far more effective as a bowler than Waqar, Tendulkar than Saqlain/Ajmal.
    u left out IK/wasim/shoiab/Qadir/mushie

  10. #10
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    Oh plz

    There is nothing premature, its not as if He has been picked in the World Cup squad

  11. #11
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    He is very very quick.

    Why not try him in T20i? Who really cares if you win or lose a bilaterial T20?

    It's the best format for giving players a go. I wish Pakistan would do it more.

    Salman Irshad( a player I didn't rate before this PSL btw) and others like him should be drafted in for a couple of T20s.

  12. #12
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    I believe it is premature. He goes for plenty if he does not get it right.

    Mohsin Khan is a much better bowler at this stage and he got robbed.

  13. #13
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    Its for bilateral not T20 wc.. the point on speed remains.

  14. #14
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    In terms of talent, great prospect and deserves a chance why not, only issue will be his control, especially when put under pressure, in T20 doesn't matter how fast you bowl, if you haven't got the skill and control to go with you will see your balls hit the boundary a lot quicker then you deliver them.

  15. #15
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    I mean the sample size is clearly dead against making such a move. Pakistan have produced failure after failure with this approach (and they don't learn either, we are seeing this play out again with Dhani and Wasim).

    On the rare occasion it goes right however, India will have their first ever world class express bowler on their hands.

    For me, and given the overall strength of the Indian team right now, it makes it worth the risk.

  16. #16
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    This was his second season so nothing wrong in giving him a go especially after a good season he had and the pace factor that he brings in.

    Mohsin is in his first session and he played only in the second half.

    So, I don't think it is same comparing those two. Look at Venkatesh Iyer, he had half a great season and two months later, he was brought into the team to fill that seam bowling A/R option although in reality he is just a part timer with bowl. That you could call as premature.

    Umran's case isn't premature. He has a complete season and a half behind him.

  17. #17
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    I thought they would pick Mohsin Khan.He is probably the best fast bowler in India now. clocks 150 kph and econ under 6,highly skilful

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexjohn_tcr View Post
    I thought they would pick Mohsin Khan.He is probably the best fast bowler in India now. clocks 150 kph and econ under 6,highly skilful
    Arshdeep got the nod over Mohsin. SMH.

  19. #19
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    I don’t think its the point of why you should be afraid of losing a T20I or series rather its about a more bigger picture and that is the right development of a promising young pacer.

    Issue which I have observed when you induct a player who is a prospect for all 3 formats into a national side based upon performance in one format while he has not played much in any other format then sometimes the development in those formats (Mainly red ball cricket) gets halted from skills and fitness perspective. In the short-medium run the player sometimes gets tagged as a whiteball specialist. If Umran does well here then he will be part of future T20I squads and then be part of ODI squad, eventually travelling and being with Indian team for most part of the year, likely missing Ranji Trophy and List A tournament.

    If Indian team keeps carrying him then it would be on their shoulders to develop and transition him in other formats accordingly. Not something which has not happened before or is impossible but, they will have to be careful with their handling.
    Last edited by Titan24; 27th May 2022 at 10:14.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan24 View Post
    I don’t think its the point of why you should be afraid of losing a T20I or series rather its about a more bigger picture and that is the right development of a promising young pacer.

    Issue which I have observed when you induct a player who is a prospect for all 3 formats into a national side based upon performance in one format while he has not played much in any other format then sometimes the development in those formats (Mainly red ball cricket) gets halted from skills and fitness perspective. In the short-medium run the player sometimes gets tagged as a whiteball specialist. If Umran does well here then he will be part of future T20I squads and then be part of ODI squad, eventually travelling and being with Indian team for most part of the year, likely missing Ranji Trophy and List A tournament.

    If Indian team keeps carrying him then it would be on their shoulders to develop and transition him in other formats accordingly. Not something which has not happened before or is impossible but, they will have to be careful with their handling.
    If Umran shows performance in all 3 formats. I hope bcci preserves him for test cricket only. Occasionally play him in ODIs.

    14-16 t20s in the IPL is enough t20 in a yearm

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champ_Pal View Post
    Arshdeep got the nod over Mohsin. SMH.
    What travesty.

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    The five-match T20I series between India and South Africa will begin on Thursday at the Arun Jaitley Stadium in New Delhi. The KL Rahul-led side started practicing for the series on Monday. Umran Malik impressed one and all with his performances in the IPL as he took 22 wickets for SunRisers Hyderabad, and clocked the second-fastest delivery of the season at 157kmph. So it needs to be seen whether he is a given a chance in the first T20I against the Proteas.

    Head coach Rahul Dravid spoke to reporters during a press conferene at Arun Jaitley Stadium and he gave his take on the pacer from Jammu and what he can bring to the table.

    "Yeah, it is exciting. He certainly bowled quick and with pace. Another thing which has been interesting for me watching the IPL from the outside is the number of Indian bowlers bowling fast. And obviously, being coach of all three formats of the game, I would love to see that translated into the longer formats of the game. But it is brilliant in terms of watching Umran in the nets, you can see that he has got that pace," said Dravid.

    "Obviously, he is learning. He is a young boy and he is getting better, improving. The more he is able to play, the better he is going to get. From our, perspective, very happy to have someone like him in the mix. We have to see how much playing time we can give him, we need to be realistic, we have a large squad, it is not possible to give everyone playing XI time. I think I am certainly someone who likes to have that consistency, give people te and let him feel settled in the positions. It would be interesting time to see how much playing time we give to Umran, we also have Arshdeep here who is brilliant as well. We have experience in the form of guys who have been with us before, Harshal, Bhuvi, Avesh. There are certain things we need to look at but it is nice and exciting to have a couple of young guys in the mix as well. It has given an opportunity for us to broaden our pool and see what they can do," he added.

    The senior players - Virat Kohli, Rohit Sharma and Jasprit Bumrah - have all been rested for the T20Is against South Africa. Youngsters such as Umran Malik, Arshdeep Singh, who impressed in the recently-concluded IPL have been given an opportunity in the series.

    KL Rahul be leading the Indian side in the absence of Rohit. Veteran wicketkeeper Dinesh Karthik has also made his way back into the squad on the back of some strong performances for Royal Challengers Bangalore in the IPL.

    NDTV


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  23. #23
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    It is premature but its not like they have another bowler who can clock 150+

    And while I don't advocate giving players international debuts long before they are ready, the lessons he will learn in international cricket by getting smacked around by the best batters in the world will ultimately teach him more about bowling, than dominating any amount of local guys in domestic ever will.
    Last edited by RedwoodOriginal; 8th June 2022 at 01:04.

  24. #24
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    Guys like this are very injury prone, wonder how long he will last?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    What travesty.
    I would have taken Arshdeep over Bhuvi. Kumar is done and dusted.

  26. #26
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    Ideally, Indian T20 bowling lineup should be
    1) Bumrah
    2) Mohsin
    3) Umran
    4) Arshdeep
    5) Chahar
    6) Harshal
    7) Bhuvi

    Bowling unit should be selected according to that order in T20's.

  27. #27
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    As expected, management wants trundlers like Arshdeep.

    Seriously this is disappointing.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    It is premature but its not like they have another bowler who can clock 150+

    And while I don't advocate giving players international debuts long before they are ready, the lessons he will learn in international cricket by getting smacked around by the best batters in the world will ultimately teach him more about bowling, than dominating any amount of local guys in domestic ever will.
    And we do? Stop overrating bowlers like rauf.

  29. #29
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    If he is doing well domestically then throw him in international matches. That is what Pak has always done.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  30. #30
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    Heard he touched 163.7 km/hr in the nets. We have the fastest bowler of all time here

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moeey View Post
    And we do? Stop overrating bowlers like rauf.
    Rauf is a 150+ bowler for now atleast. The issue is that he doesnt bowl a consistent line often enough


    'There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold'

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    As expected, management wants trundlers like Arshdeep.

    Seriously this is disappointing.
    Unfortunately it's been so under DRavid who seems to prefer trundlers .

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    As expected, management wants trundlers like Arshdeep.

    Seriously this is disappointing.
    Does he have skills with new bowl?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Heard he touched 163.7 km/hr in the nets. We have the fastest bowler of all time here
    Doesn't count until he does it in internationals.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champ_Pal View Post
    I would have taken Arshdeep over Bhuvi. Kumar is done and dusted.
    You should have watched Bhuvi's control in Tata IPL 2022.

    Bhuvi still has some juice left in him. And so has Umesh Yadav (watch is IPL 2022 performance). Agreed they aren't as fast they used to be (Umesh now bowls consistently in high 130ks).. But they are like MATURE WINE.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    As expected, management wants trundlers like Arshdeep.

    Seriously this is disappointing.
    To be fair to him, Arshdeep definitely isn't pacy (even Nagarkotti and Shivam Mavi were in the same U19 team that won the U19 WC).. but he has definitely impressed with his control and accuracy for 3 Straight IPL Seasons now.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Heard he touched 163.7 km/hr in the nets. We have the fastest bowler of all time here
    Could very well be a rumor... there is no documented proof about it. It hasn't been reported by an credible media either.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Does he have skills with new bowl?
    Yes and No.

    Can he move the new ball. Yes.

    Is he consistent with his line? Yes

    Is he consistent with his length? No.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 360 CRICKET View Post
    To be fair to him, Arshdeep definitely isn't pacy (even Nagarkotti and Shivam Mavi were in the same U19 team that won the U19 WC).. but he has definitely impressed with his control and accuracy for 3 Straight IPL Seasons now.
    He has what 10 wickets in this year's IPL. If a bowler can't take wickets, then why is he in the team?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 360 CRICKET View Post
    Could very well be a rumor... there is no documented proof about it. It hasn't been reported by an credible media either.
    There are videos of it. But its in nets so doesn't matter. He has to do it in a official match.

    But having watched Lee and Akhtar at the same age, Umran is quicker.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Yes and No.

    Can he move the new ball. Yes.

    Is he consistent with his line? Yes

    Is he consistent with his length? No.
    With Bumrah and Harshal already there, they should have looked for a new bowl mastery bowler instead of Arshdeep.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moeey View Post
    And we do? Stop overrating bowlers like rauf.
    Yeah we do.

    And how about you be grateful instead? that we have a 150 kph bowler who despite having very limited domestic experience is doing quite well in Pakistan colors. Most teams in the world would kill to have a bowler like Rauf.

    There's nothing wrong with giving players their due credit. Nobody has called him the second coming of Akhtar or Waqar so I don't know which alternate reality you are living in where you think people are overrating him.
    Last edited by RedwoodOriginal; 8th June 2022 at 22:04.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    With Bumrah and Harshal already there, they should have looked for a new bowl mastery bowler instead of Arshdeep.
    Arshdeep Bhuvi Harshal all are similar bowlers.

    This is like 10 years back, all trundlers attack

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedwoodOriginal View Post
    Yeah we do.

    And how about you be grateful instead? that we have a 150 kph bowler who despite having very limited domestic experience is doing quite well in Pakistan colors. Most teams in the world would kill to have a bowler like Rauf.

    There's nothing wrong with giving players their due credit. Nobody has called him the second coming of Akhtar or Waqar so I don't know which alternate reality you are living in where you think people are overrating him.
    I want to see rauf in tests to get a better idea of what his ability is. He gets hit a lot. Erratic. He can be like wood in tests in certain conditions. I don't think he will ever be a complete bowler.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Champ_Pal View Post
    Ideally, Indian T20 bowling lineup should be
    1) Bumrah
    2) Mohsin
    3) Umran
    4) Arshdeep
    5) Chahar
    6) Harshal
    7) Bhuvi

    Bowling unit should be selected according to that order in T20's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Champ_Pal View Post
    Ideally, Indian T20 bowling lineup should be
    1) Bumrah
    2) Mohsin
    3) Umran
    4) Arshdeep
    5) Chahar
    6) Harshal
    7) Bhuvi

    Bowling unit should be selected according to that order in T20's.
    MY T20 FAST BOWLING LINE UP FOR INDIA


    [OPENING | MID | DEATH]

    JASPRIT BUMRAH [USP: Complete Package, Unconventional Action, Sharp in Pace]

    BHUBANESHWAR KUMAR [USP: Almost Complete Package just that he isn't express]


    [MID]

    UMRAN MAILIK [USP: SPEED DEMON, Hopefully gets some international experience]


    [OPENING | MID]

    DEEPAK CHAHAR [USP: Swing with the New Ball, isn't express though]

    PRASIDH KRISHNA [USP: Height. Was impressive in the last international Series. Has hit 150 KPH in IPL]

    MOHSIN KHAN [USP: Left Armer, Height, has hit 150 KPH in IPL, Good control and intelligent change of pace but yet to be tested for internationals]

    [MID | DEATH]

    T NATRAJAN [USP: Left Armer, Yorker Specialist, isn't express though]

    HARSHAL PATEL [USP: Control, Change of Speed, isn't express though]


    SPECIAL MENTIONS

    ARSHDEEP: Shown good control but I would like him to perform in the international stage. Isn't express though.

    KULDEEP SEN: Sharp in pace, has the Height. Needs to be given international experience

    KARTHIK TYAGI: Looks pacy just that Umran makes everyone one appear slow. Needs to be given international experience




    MISSING IN ACTION

    NAVDEEP SAINI: What Happened?? Injuries??

    MAVI, NAGARKOTTI hasn't yet impressed too much at the IPLs

    KHALEEL got chance with the national team but other options seems more promising

  46. #46
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    Give the lad a go.

    He can't do any worse than some of the current Indian pacers can he.

    He offers something different - deserves a chance.



  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saj View Post
    Give the lad a go.

    He can't do any worse than some of the current Indian pacers can he.

    He offers something different - deserves a chance.
    Indian dont even choose their top bowlers.

    I would go with umran pprasidh tyagi. That's a formidable bowling attack. Not sure why they keep selecting trundlers. Maybe Rahul has an affinity for trundlers.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moeey View Post
    Indian dont even choose their top bowlers.

    I would go with umran pprasidh tyagi. That's a formidable bowling attack. Not sure why they keep selecting trundlers. Maybe Rahul has an affinity for trundlers.

    PRASIDH has been 'PROMOTED" to the elite Test Team... he is flying with the Test Team to England.

    Tyagi and other like Mohsin, Kuldeep Sen will get their chance. Everyone can't be given a chance at once

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moeey View Post
    Indian dont even choose their top bowlers.

    I would go with umran pprasidh tyagi. That's a formidable bowling attack. Not sure why they keep selecting trundlers. Maybe Rahul has an affinity for trundlers.
    Prasidh is a test bowler.

    But yes Tyagi Kuldeep Mohsin should get selected over 32-33 year old over the hill journey man cricketers like Patel or Bhuvi.

    They simply are not good enough.

  50. #50
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    Should Umran Malik Be Picked For India's T20 World Cup Squad? Ravi Shastri Says "No". Here's Why

    Umran Malik's selection in the Indian cricket squad for the five-match T20I series against South Africa, which started on Thursday, has raised expectations from the 22-year-old pacer.

    Umran Malik did not find a place in India's XI for the first T20I against South Africa.

    Umran Malik's selection in the Indian cricket squad for the five-match T20I series against South Africa, which started on Thursday, has raised expectations from the 22-year-old pacer. Having enthralled all with his speed in the Indian Premier League (IPL) 2022, Umran's rise is being closely followed. Many former players, including the great Dale Steyn, believe that it's time for Umran to be inducted into the playing XI. With only a handful of series for the Indian cricket team before the T20 World Cup in Australia in October, Umran needs to make his mark quick at the international level if he wants to book a berth in the Indian squad for the showpiece event.

    However, former Indian cricket team coach Ravi Shastri feels that it's too early to give the youngster the big break.

    "No, not T20 as yet. Groom him. Take him with your team. If anything, let him start playing white-ball cricket, that is 50-over cricket, maybe even red-ball cricket. Groom him there with the in the red ball team and then see how it goes," he said in an discussion on ESPNcricinfo.

    "I think he should be around the Indian team all the while, even if he is not in the squad. I think they need to manage him...His time will come," Daniel Vettori, former New Zealand cricket team captain, added.

    Ahead of the T20I series, India head coach Rahul Dravid gave his take on the pacer.

    "Yeah, it is exciting. He certainly bowled quick and with pace. Another thing which has been interesting for me watching the IPL from the outside is the number of Indian bowlers bowling fast. And obviously, being coach of all three formats of the game, I would love to see that translated into the longer formats of the game. But it is brilliant in terms of watching Umran in the nets, you can see that he has got that pace," said Dravid.

    Listen to the latest songs, only on JioSaavn.com
    "Obviously, he is learning. He is a young boy and he is getting better, improving. The more he is able to play, the better he is going to get. From our, perspective, very happy to have someone like him in the mix. We have to see how much playing time we can give him, we need to be realistic, we have a large squad, it is not possible to give everyone playing XI time. I think I am certainly someone who likes to have that consistency."

    Playing for SunRisers Hyderabad, Umran Malik took 22 wickets in 14 matches to finish as the fourth-highest wicket-taker.

    https://sports.ndtv.com/india-vs-sou...dtv_topstories

  51. #51
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    Young Umran Malik grabbed the limelight with his raw pace in the recently-concluded Indian Premier League (IPL) 2022. He featured in all league-stage games for the Sunrisers Hyderabad (SRH) this season and ended up as the fourth-highest wicket-taker of the tournament with 22 scalps. His success in the league earned him a maiden India call-up for the ongoing T20I series against South Africa. However, the right arm-quick is yet to make his debut on the international level.

    Many experts have heaped praise on Umran following an impressive IPL season. However, former India captain and legendary all-rounder Kapil Dev believes the youngster needs to spend at least 2-3 years more at the highest level.

    Speaking with ABP Uncut on YouTube, Kapil lauded Umran’s pace but underlined how he needs to work on his economy rate.

    “I am very happy with his selection. But it’s too early… you have to give him at least two-three years at this level. We reserve high praise for a player, then he disappears after 1 year… but there’s no lack of talent. I want Umran to keep himself in a good environment and continue the hard work at the same pace. By seeing his ability, I don’t think he lacks anything. He needs to develop a great mindset moving forward, and also needs to consult good bowlers and see footage of their bowling," Kapil Dev said.

    “He bowls fast and takes wicket as well. We have seen players who can bowl fast but can’t pick up wickets. This young guy has done both. Maybe that’s why he got a call-up so early. The IPL has opened the door to the national team for many players. But we have to give them two-three years at the international level.

    “If you are bowling 150-plus, economy of 9 isn’t a good thing. It should be around 6 to 7. He (Umran) has to improve upon this… try out yorkers and understand the mindset of the batter. But all these things develop with time. He will improve as he bowls against quality batters and hopefully his economy comes down,” he added.

    Prior to the 1st T20 against South Africa, stand-in captain Rishabh Pant had also hinted that the pace sensation might have to wait for his chance to play for India.

    “He is an amazing prospect for us. But over a period of time, he will learn how to control his aggression, his line or length. He has bowled nicely in the IPL, but going forward we will see him in flying colours, I guess. But it is going to take the time I guess so till the time we are thinking as a team, people who have come first, we will look to give them early chances,” said Pant during a press conference on Wednesday

    CricNext


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  52. #52
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    Two seasons of ranji and his back will be done..he'll be bowling 145 max..unless India change their mindset on quicks like him he will be finished before he began.
    Last edited by MenInG; 11th June 2022 at 19:39.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan View Post
    Two seasons of ranji and his back will be done..he'll be bowling 145 max..unless India change their mindset on quicks like him he will be finished before he began.
    No doubt he is quick, but with his bowling action I don't believe he is a 155+ or even a 160 kph bowler. He doesn't has a slingy action. I have a feeling that the speed guns at IPL were maybe faulty, even Furgeson was consistently clocking 150 and Ashwin I think bowled a few 120s.
    I have been watching cricket for over 30 years and have seen a lot of fast, nasty and scary bowlers like Patterson, Waqar, Donald etc. Even Akram at his prime was very quick, but none of them used to bowl consistently at 155 plus. I'm not sure how the speed guns measure compared to 20 years ago. Back then I guess only Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and on occasion England had the technology.
    Last edited by greatest; 11th June 2022 at 23:03.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by greatest View Post
    No doubt he is quick, but with his bowling action I don't believe he is a 155+ or even a 160 kph bowler. He doesn't has a slingy action. I have a feeling that the speed guns at IPL were maybe faulty, even Furgeson was consistently clocking 150 and Ashwin I think bowled a few 120s.
    I have been watching cricket for over 30 years and have seen a lot of fast, nasty and scary bowlers like Patterson, Waqar, Donald etc. Even Akram at his prime was very quick, but none of them used to bowl consistently at 155 plus. I'm not sure how the speed guns measure compared to 20 years ago. Back then I guess only Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and on occasion England had the technology.
    Do you have any idea how quick Ferguson is in international matches? He regularly clocks 150ks.

    Slingy action is not a prerequisite to bowling quick.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan View Post
    Two seasons of ranji and his back will be done..he'll be bowling 145 max..unless India change their mindset on quicks like him he will be finished before he began.
    I am afraid, Dravid is too orthodox for these modern times.

  56. #56
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    We need Virat Kohli as coach for the better utilisation of Umran Malik

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by greatest View Post
    No doubt he is quick, but with his bowling action I don't believe he is a 155+ or even a 160 kph bowler. He doesn't has a slingy action. I have a feeling that the speed guns at IPL were maybe faulty, even Furgeson was consistently clocking 150 and Ashwin I think bowled a few 120s.
    I have been watching cricket for over 30 years and have seen a lot of fast, nasty and scary bowlers like Patterson, Waqar, Donald etc. Even Akram at his prime was very quick, but none of them used to bowl consistently at 155 plus. I'm not sure how the speed guns measure compared to 20 years ago. Back then I guess only Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and on occasion England had the technology.

    Best take the ipl speedguns with a tablespoon of salt.
    If he does it in internationals, fair play to him. My estimate is we will see a difference of 7-10 kphs.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by greatest View Post
    No doubt he is quick, but with his bowling action I don't believe he is a 155+ or even a 160 kph bowler. He doesn't has a slingy action. I have a feeling that the speed guns at IPL were maybe faulty, even Furgeson was consistently clocking 150 and Ashwin I think bowled a few 120s.
    I have been watching cricket for over 30 years and have seen a lot of fast, nasty and scary bowlers like Patterson, Waqar, Donald etc. Even Akram at his prime was very quick, but none of them used to bowl consistently at 155 plus. I'm not sure how the speed guns measure compared to 20 years ago. Back then I guess only Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and on occasion England had the technology.
    You clearly havent watched ferguson bowl in international.

    His actio is ridiculous, yet he does end up gettinf 150kph in international.

    Even i find it astonishing with the kind of action he has.


    The first and only PM of Pakistan to lose the peoples confidence = Imran Khan

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    You clearly havent watched ferguson bowl in international.

    His actio is ridiculous, yet he does end up gettinf 150kph in international.

    Even i find it astonishing with the kind of action he has.
    These speed guns can be tricky. Better to judge the bowler by just ignoring it and take into account the views of contemporary batsmen like it used to be in the good old days. All the top batsmen of the 70s rated Thomson as the quickest, Andy Roberts & Holdings were not far behind. Then in the 80s Marshall & Patterson. Waqar, Wasim, Donald, Devon Malcolm to mention a few in the 90s.
    I had read somewhere that Atherton rated Akram's opening spell in the 3rd Test at Old Trafford 1992 as the quickest he has ever faced. (Check the clip on YouTube, it's really quick stuff) Now when I happen to see Akram in the same years 92-93 on the Australia, New Zealand tours and in the Total International Series in South Africa he was shown at best 142 kphs.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marooned View Post
    Best take the ipl speedguns with a tablespoon of salt.
    If he does it in internationals, fair play to him. My estimate is we will see a difference of 7-10 kphs.
    Yes that's right. His 157 is more 152 153 St best.
    I dont believe he bowls 150 plus consistently. He is more wood category of 145-148. Occasionally 150 plus. Max

    Shoaib used to bowl 150 - 154 spells in tests albeit in questionable speed guns.

    Long way to go for umran.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by greatest View Post
    These speed guns can be tricky. Better to judge the bowler by just ignoring it and take into account the views of contemporary batsmen like it used to be in the good old days. All the top batsmen of the 70s rated Thomson as the quickest, Andy Roberts & Holdings were not far behind. Then in the 80s Marshall & Patterson. Waqar, Wasim, Donald, Devon Malcolm to mention a few in the 90s.
    I had read somewhere that Atherton rated Akram's opening spell in the 3rd Test at Old Trafford 1992 as the quickest he has ever faced. (Check the clip on YouTube, it's really quick stuff) Now when I happen to see Akram in the same years 92-93 on the Australia, New Zealand tours and in the Total International Series in South Africa he was shown at best 142 kphs.
    Akram was never express or even fast. Always fast medium. Same with Waqar.
    Shaoib ofcourse is express.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moeey View Post
    Akram was never express or even fast. Always fast medium. Same with Waqar.
    Shaoib ofcourse is express.
    Waqar before the 1992 stress fracture was super quick. In fact in 1991 he was no doubt the quickest bowler in the world. They used to call him Burewala Express. I saw him bowl in Sharjah in 1991 and he was real quick...as quick or even slightly quicker than Shoaib. Waqar was quick in the air while Shoaib was quick of the pitch.
    Yes, Akram was never express pace but at times he can change gears and be quite explosive. I'm sure Akram might on occasions have bowled 150...maybe between 1989 and 1992, when he hadn't shortened his run up. And, recently Viv Richards even commented that Akram bowled the fastest and nastiest bouncer he ever faced. That was in Australia in 1988.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by greatest View Post
    Waqar before the 1992 stress fracture was super quick. In fact in 1991 he was no doubt the quickest bowler in the world. They used to call him Burewala Express. I saw him bowl in Sharjah in 1991 and he was real quick...as quick or even slightly quicker than Shoaib. Waqar was quick in the air while Shoaib was quick of the pitch.
    Yes, Akram was never express pace but at times he can change gears and be quite explosive. I'm sure Akram might on occasions have bowled 150...maybe between 1989 and 1992, when he hadn't shortened his run up. And, recently Viv Richards even commented that Akram bowled the fastest and nastiest bouncer he ever faced. That was in Australia in 1988.
    I dont buy that man. I don't think so. I have old tapes of Waqar pre injury and wasim. Neither was express. Fast medium at best. Shoaib was miles quicker.
    Viv will say such things to appease the wasim fans as he was popular. Doesn't equate to reality.

    If you say Waqar pre injury was fast then many bowlers of current era were faster before injury too.

    Cummins was fast/express before injury. Pattinson was. Rabada, bumrah and steym all were lightning fast before injury. Doesn't mean much if their average speed overall was only fast medium to fast now. Overall speed matters more. What they bowled on average throughout their career rather than factoring in just a couple of years where they may have bowled express in an era without speed guns should be accounted for.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moeey View Post
    I dont buy that man. I don't think so. I have old tapes of Waqar pre injury and wasim. Neither was express. Fast medium at best. Shoaib was miles quicker.
    Viv will say such things to appease the wasim fans as he was popular. Doesn't equate to reality.

    If you say Waqar pre injury was fast then many bowlers of current era were faster before injury too.

    Cummins was fast/express before injury. Pattinson was. Rabada, bumrah and steym all were lightning fast before injury. Doesn't mean much if their average speed overall was only fast medium to fast now. Overall speed matters more. What they bowled on average throughout their career rather than factoring in just a couple of years where they may have bowled express in an era without speed guns should be accounted for.
    Technology has evolved over the last 30 years. Now we can watch a game in HD with many close in camera angles.
    I'm sure many at Pakpassion who have been following or watched cricket in the late 80s and early 90s will testify that Waqar was really quick.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moeey View Post
    Yes that's right. His 157 is more 152 153 St best.
    I dont believe he bowls 150 plus consistently. He is more wood category of 145-148. Occasionally 150 plus. Max

    Shoaib used to bowl 150 - 154 spells in tests albeit in questionable speed guns.

    Long way to go for umran.
    Wood has bowled close to 97mph in international cricket.

  66. #66
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    With the use of hawkeye, speed gun readings can be rechecked using the ultra super slow mo cameras of hawk eye. 6 cameras are used and they track the speed of the ball as well.

    So the sour grapes about inaccurate speeds can take rest.

  67. #67
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    Waqar was measured multiple times in UK SA NZ. He clocked 150ks and the highest speed was 153kph.

    The speed of Roberts Holding Thompson have all been measured.

    Whats the doubt?

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moeey View Post
    Yes that's right. His 157 is more 152 153 St best.
    I dont believe he bowls 150 plus consistently. He is more wood category of 145-148. Occasionally 150 plus. Max

    Shoaib used to bowl 150 - 154 spells in tests albeit in questionable speed guns.

    Long way to go for umran.
    My point is whatever he clocks in internationals, I'll consider that as his speed.

    I don't buy the 'questionable' speedgun argument. Why would a faulty speedgun show higher speeds and not lower?
    With Shoaib, lee for eg. high 150s were not a one off, so there is pretty much no merit to the argument.

  69. #69
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    I'm not sure about the context of your post, I kinda jumped straight in..

    These guys were not measured regularly though as is the practice now. So it's pretty much useless using the speed readings of especially the 80s guys as a direct comparison.
    If Waqar was measured at 153 kph, it's reasonable to assume he would've clocked higher speeds too that weren't measured.
    Last edited by Marooned; 12th June 2022 at 15:46.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Waqar was measured multiple times in UK SA NZ. He clocked 150ks and the highest speed was 153kph.

    The speed of Roberts Holding Thompson have all been measured.

    Whats the doubt?
    It was a reply to you.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marooned View Post
    I'm not sure about the context of your post, I kinda jumped straight in..

    These guys were not measured regularly though as is the practice now. So it's pretty much useless using the speed readings of especially the 80s guys as a direct comparison.
    If Waqar was measured at 153 kph, it's reasonable to assume he would've clocked higher speeds too that weren't measured.
    Waqar was actually measured various times and across years and he never went beyond 153. Ofcourse he may have bowled the odd delivery over it. But i believe 153 was his peak speed or very near to it. Same with Donald, his highest was measured at 152.9 ks. Both were measured over 150ks multiple times.

    Thompson Roberts Holding were both measured in match conditions and in non match conditions. In non match conditions they could go all out as there was no fear of bowling a bad ball. But yes, i agree that they could have been faster.

  72. #72
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    In last 48 hrs, Sunil Gavaskar, Dilip Vengsarkar and Zaheer Khan have asked for the selection of Umran in the playing 11.

    Lets see if that cuts any ice with the stubborn team management.

  73. #73
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    The team shouldn't listen to outside voices.

    If they aren't comfortable selecting Umram based on his performance in the camps/nets then they shouldn't be pressurised by agenda fuelled pundits like Gavaskar.

    He will get his chance soon.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom View Post
    The team shouldn't listen to outside voices.

    If they aren't comfortable selecting Umram based on his performance in the camps/nets then they shouldn't be pressurised by agenda fuelled pundits like Gavaskar.

    He will get his chance soon.
    If the team management is not doing the right things, then outsiders will voice their opinion.

    Rahul Dravid and his stubborn team selection has lost India 8 matches on the trot to SA.

    What agenda does Gavaskar has?

  75. #75
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    Umran Malik warmed the bench throughout the India-South Africa T20I series. The fast bowler, who impressed with his speed at the Indian Premier League (IPL) 2022, is also part of the India squad for the Ireland Tour later this month. Malik finished as the fourth-highest wicket-taker in the IPL 2022 with 22 scalps in 14 games. Many former players including the great Sunil Gavaskar and Irfan Pathan have said that they have rarely seen such an exciting prospect in Indian cricket. It remains to be seen whether the 22-year-old Malik gets a chance in the India playing XI soon.

    Former Indian cricket team captain Dilip Vengsarkar has now commented on Malik not getting a chance in the playing XI.

    "It's not fair for me to comment since I'm not part of the team management. Not playing Umran immediately could be part of team strategy. You never know... May be they are waiting to unleash him at the right opportunity," Dilip Vengsarkar told The Telegraph.

    Earlier, Vengsarkar had said Umran "deserves to play" international cricket, especially when the team is playing at home.

    "Everybody has a different outlook on the game. But I feel he deserves to play after showing that kind of speed and accuracy in the IPL. Also when you are playing (international cricket) at home, that's the right time to test somebody like him," Vengsarkar told Khaleej Times.

    "He is one of the most exciting prospects I have seen in the last 10 years. I hope he does well because he looks very fit, and he has that aggression of fast bowler. He has got pace and accuracy. I think he should be able to play for India for a long time."

    Gavaskar has also paid a big compliment to Malik. "The last time, I am trying to think... The last time I got really excited at seeing an Indian Player was Sachin Tendulkar...when Sachin Tendulkar...you know young Indian. And after that I have got excited watching Umran Malik," he said during the India-South Africa T20I series.

    NDTV


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    Pace is overrated but extreme pace cannot be ignored, specially in country like India, where anything above 140 is considered gold.
    Mohsin is way accurate than Umraan and has all the control and decent speed to be the perfect opening bowler for India, but selectors preferred more speedy Umran.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased-Fan View Post
    Pace is overrated but extreme pace cannot be ignored, specially in country like India, where anything above 140 is considered gold.
    Mohsin is way accurate than Umraan and has all the control and decent speed to be the perfect opening bowler for India, but selectors preferred more speedy Umran.
    Mohsin should have been in the team ahead of Arshdeep.

    I am amazed that the next T20 WC is in Australia and we are packing our team with trundlers.

  78. #78
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    Umran defended 17 runs in last over.

    Bowled at

    1. 142kph
    2. 142 kph (no ball)
    2. 144 kph
    3. 145 kph
    4. 144 kph
    5. no speed
    6. 142 kph


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    He did bowl 151 in the middle.. but I think last over he tried more for line(keyword-try).. wd to him.

  80. #80
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    42 runs in 4 overs.

    Another expensive outing but not many of the bowlers managed to escape with decent figures.

    Tough introduction to international cricket for Umran.



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