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  1. #1
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    Imran Khan is a "mahajar" from motherside

    Part 1: http://youtube.com/watch?v=E-izrF8Qy1w

    Imran Khan says he is a mahajar from motherside at 4:27 (Part 1)

    Part 2: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ck6pMgzek...elated&search=

  2. #2
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    There is a problem it seems like in Pakistan. what is mainstream that he is referring to? Muhajir who is punjabi or Patahn is still Punjabi or Pathan. The others who are not the major provincial groups are the mohajirs. My mother is either a Punjabi or Kashmiri. I don't know, and it doesn't interest me and it is something that did not get enforced on me or talked about but she talks to some relatives in punjabi and other than that I never hear her speak it. Everyone else is a real muhajir when it comes to "who are you?" in Pakistan because people can say Pathan, punjabi Sindhi etc but others have no lable. That question could be about what city you were born in but is that really the reason to ask it? what are they supposed to say when the people in the country want to know. it is not just muhajir's fault but we are (apparently) from a system where we want to know who you are. maybe When a Bihari who is a muhajir gets a Bihari label but still a muhajir maybe as he is not part of the four major groups but promoting the word muhajir here and there by people is not good. What should be emphasized is Pakistani instead of Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi or Pathan but we are far away from it.

    I am even against asking for religion in Pakistan but then I have heard things like so Qadiyani cannot get to Saudi Arabia. I wonder what Saudi Arabia does for people in USA.

  3. #3
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    Bottom line is that Imran Khan is trying to relate with mahajars and we should appreciate this fact.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by crickter
    Bottom line is that Imran Khan is trying to relate with mahajars and we should appreciate this fact.
    and what fact is that? What is a mainstream Pakistani? I will take it as someone who is a Pakistani or considers himself a Pakistani. then why the ehtnic and religeous diffrentiation in the country and why does it take precedence in some cases? Now to me the muhajir issue is not personal even though I am a muhajir but I don't live there and have never been told by my family that we are discriminated.

    Ask him what he is? The answer will tell you who is labelled as muhajir and who is not.
    Last edited by 12thMan; 19th June 2007 at 01:50.

  5. #5
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    As if Sunni-Shia issue wasn't enough for us to fight against each other now we have a new issue, mohajir & non-mohajir.

    That makes me think where does only being a PAKISTANI fits into all this. We will never learn. sighh

  6. #6
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    It is true that Imran is a mohajir from the his mother side. I have no problems with any mohajir at all be it they are from India or Afghanistan. The problem majority of people have is when people like Altaf Hussain try to use mohajir for their own benefits. They insite hatred and murder innocent people in Karachi.

    Imran is a mohajir but he is not inciting hatred between innocent people. Many mohajir's are playing a very positive role in Pakistani society and working hard. There is a big difference between being a mohajir and creating havoc like Altaf Hussain. There are millions of Afghan mohajir's in Pakistan how come we never hear any issues between them and rest of Pakistani's ??

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    Imran is a mohajir but he is not inciting hatred between innocent people
    But he supports the mullahs who incite hate along religious lines.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan
    But he supports the mullahs who incite hate along religious lines.
    If you go by your thinking Hasan Altaf Hussain has not exactly been a Saint in the last 20 years has. If I am not he must have been responsible for murdering thousands of people in Karachi.

    Just remember two wrongs don't make a right. Why don't just admit MQM is a terrorist organization and its a about time these idiots are bought to book for all their crimes.

    If Altaf and co hate Pakistan so much why the hell don't they go back to India where they come from.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan
    But he supports the mullahs who incite hate along religious lines.
    People like u who can't find fault with Imran come out with such stuff.

    MMA is not responsible for killing people the way MQM has done in the past.

    Altaf is an animal and all the MQM leaders deserve to be shifted to cages in zoo.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheraz1977
    People like u who can't find fault with Imran come out with such stuff.

    MMA is not responsible for killing people the way MQM has done in the past.

    Altaf is an animal and all the MQM leaders deserve to be shifted to cages in zoo.
    Same can be true for all the **** Politicians and religous leaders like Mulana Diesel e.t.c. They are responsible for killing thousands of muslims in the name of Islam and BTW I am not defending Altaf Khachra, who should be discarded long time ago but thanks to Mr. Zia ul Haq who gave us Mr. Altaf along with Afghans, Drugs and arms.

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    They are responsible for killing thousands of muslims in the name of Islam and BTW I am not defending Altaf Khachra
    really? i wasnt aware of the mma committing mass murder? care to enlighten us since thats such an bold statement and helps deflect attention from whats really going on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan
    really? i wasnt aware of the mma committing mass murder? care to enlighten us since thats such an bold statement and helps deflect attention from whats really going on...
    I would suggest you to read newspapers and articles and don't tell me they are saints, they are same as politicians and BTW the only thing that rules in Pakistan is Army whether in the form of MQM or MMA. They both are political wings of Army and Army used them whenever they want and kick their sorry chootar when they are done with them. The only ppl suffer from this fall out are normally the low rank workers or some middle tier leadership.
    Also since you are asking about the MMA, do you have any idea of the composition of MMA? if not then go find them and search for their "Blessings" to Islam and pakistan. Let me add this as well, if it was not for MMA, Mushy bro would be gone long time ago.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan
    really? helps deflect attention from whats really going on...
    and also I am not trying to deflect attention from "What's going on" If you are referring to what happening with MQM then let me tell you this, after the May 12th incidents, I totally blamed everything on MQM. They have lost the respect of even the ppl sympethatic to their cause or mission (if they have one).
    Last edited by ali110; 19th June 2007 at 16:56.

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    you still havent answered my question...have the MMA killed thousands and thousands of Muslims or not? by the way i dont support them but i do hate the constant mullahphobia pakistani espouse...at the moment I see the MQM as the biggest threat to national unity not the mma...

  15. #15
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    oh please don't make them so innocent, I guess you are forgetting what's going on in the name of Islam in the "Islamic Republic of Pakistan" in the last 20-30 years. All those Shia-Sunni Killings (don't blame them on "BAHAR KAI LOGON " per ) along with the killings of thousand of Muslims in the name of jihad all over the world. As far as I know we as a muslim completely lost it when we decide to solve all problems with the hand/arms rather than brain and that's totally against the real teachings of Islam. I don't want to mention the names but if you think the ppl in MMA are saints then you are right I am Mullahphobiac but I am not denying there are lot of Ulemas who are doing their best to do what they are supposed to do but unfortunately their voices can't be heard on Geo or national media.
    Last edited by ali110; 20th June 2007 at 00:44.

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    I dont think Imran Khan meant any harm by bringing up this mahajir thng. Whether we like it or not, there are still many people in pakistan today who divide lines based on ethnicity etc. Some peole might have viewed Imran's campaign against Altaf Hussain as an attack on mahajirs in general, but by stating that he too has "mahajir roots" he is showing that this is a universal campaign and not a biased one.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by tahaqureshi
    I dont think Imran Khan meant any harm by bringing up this mahajir thng. Whether we like it or not, there are still many people in pakistan today who divide lines based on ethnicity etc. Some peole might have viewed Imran's campaign against Altaf Hussain as an attack on mahajirs in general, but by stating that he too has "mahajir roots" he is showing that this is a universal campaign and not a biased one.
    That makes much more sense.

  18. #18
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    After pak won the 86-87 series in india, indian president remarked that two jalandhris had made their life hell!! (he was referring to imran and zia-ulhaq)
    Last edited by robosapien; 20th June 2007 at 05:13.

  19. #19
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    I fully support Imran Khan if he can root this evil out from UK and getting dragged in Khi streets but I fear that he goes down the same line as other politicians and religous leaders did

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tahaqureshi
    I dont think Imran Khan meant any harm by bringing up this mahajir thng. Whether we like it or not, there are still many people in pakistan today who divide lines based on ethnicity etc. Some peole might have viewed Imran's campaign against Altaf Hussain as an attack on mahajirs in general, but by stating that he too has "mahajir roots" he is showing that this is a universal campaign and not a biased one.
    Precisely said Talha. What happened in the past is history and today we are only Pakistani and this is what Altaf could never understand. He is an evil man who is reponsible of killing thousands of our brothers and sisters in Pakistan.

    My family from my motherside also migrated from India..... and I feel if there is one party who can really take care of my rights in Pakistan is Imran Khan's party of justice. I never thought there was a need to mention it as I always thought I am only a Pakistani and nothing else but Altaf is scratching my wounds.

  21. #21
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    Link between the Mullahs and terrorism

    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam (JUI)

    The Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam (JUI, Conference of Ulema of Islam) is a right-wing religious party founded in 1945 (Islam and Islamic Groups 1992, 187-8; JIR Jan. 1999, 35-36; FEER 9 Mar. 1995a, 24). Associated with the conservative Indo-Muslim Deoband reform movement, the JUI advocates an Islamic state based on Sunni teachings and has called for Islamic revolution (Islam and Islamic Groups 1992, 188; Current History Feb. 1999, 81-82, 85; JIR Jan. 1999, 35). Led by Maulana Fazlur Rahman[13] and with a power base centred in the Pashtun areas of Baluchistan and NWFP, the JUI has a "fundamental" connection to the Taliban of Afghanistan, JUI-run madrassas having supplied the Taliban with the bulk of its leaders and rank-and-file cadres in the early 1990s (ibid.; Contemporary Religions 1992, 452; The Herald Sept. 1998a, 26; Current History Feb. 1999, 85; ibid., Apr. 1996, 160). Although considered a mainstream religious party, the JUI, like the Jamaat-e-Islami (JI) and other religious parties, has failed to generate much of a presence in parliament (FEER 9 Mar. 1995a, 24; Muslimedia 16-31 Mar. 1998).

    In December 1998, in the weeks leading up to the holy month of Ramadan, JUI(F) activists set about enforcing their own version of shari'a (Islamic law) in Quetta, a city of about 1.2 million near the Afghan border (The Herald Feb. 1999a, 64). Armed with batons, large groups of JUI activists attacked video rental shops, smashing VCRs and TVs; when the local administration did nothing to protect the shop owners, stop the attackers or charge them, the attacks on video shops became an everyday occurrence (ibid.). Political observers in Quetta speculated that with seven very influential members in the 43-strong Baluchistan provincial assembly, the JUI could have introduced legislation to close video shops during Ramadan, but instead, following the example of the Taliban, chose to employ force (ibid., 65). Although notable both for inspiring and being inspired by the Taliban, the JUI is also important for having spawned at least 11 factions, of which the SSP is considered to be the most violent (FEER 9 Mar. 1995a, 24; The Herald June 1994a, 35).

    Sipah-e Sahaba Pakistan (SSP)

    The Sipah-e Sahaba Pakistan (SSP, Guardians of the Friends of the Prophet) [14] was founded as a JUI suborganization in Punjab's Jhang district in September 1984 (JIR Jan. 1999, 35; The Herald June 1994a, 35; Modern Asian Studies July 1998, 706). Established to counter newly assertive Shia groups inspired by the Iranian revolution (Reuters 4 May 1997; Modern Asian Studies July 1998, 704), the SSP reportedly was a "relatively peaceful" party while under the JUI's wing, but party leader Maulana Haq Nawaz Jhangvi, then the JUI's provincial president, broke away from the JUI soon after the SSP was founded[15] (The Herald June 1994a, 35). While the JUI had broader views about how an Islamic state should be run, the SSP advocated a "purely Sunni state in which all other sects [would] be declared non-Muslim minorities" (ibid.; FEER 9 Mar. 1995a, 24).

    The SSP grew rapidly; from a limited presence in Jhang district in the 1980s, the SSP had become one of the largest religious parties in Punjab by 1994, surpassing even the Jamaat-e-Islami (JI) (The Herald June 1994a, 35). A "virulently anti-Shia party" (JIR Jan. 1999, 35; Modern Asian Studies July 1998, 702), the SSP's formal goals were to combat Shi'ism on all fronts; to have Shias declared a non-Muslim minority in Pakistan; to proscribe Muharram (Shi'ite commemorative ceremony) processions, which it sees as a leading cause of sectarian riots; and to have Sunni Islam declared the state religion of Pakistan (ibid., 701-02; The Herald Sept 1998b, 29). To that end the SSP initiated a guerrilla war against the Shias shortly after breaking away from the JUI, and militant Shia organizations fought back in the same way[16] (ibid., June 1994a, 35; The Friday Times 14-20 Aug. 1998). One of the early casualties of the SSP's violent methods was Jhangvi himself, who was assassinated in February 1990, as was his successor, Isar al-Haq Qasimi, in January 1991 (The Herald June 1994a, 35; Modern Asian Studies July 1998, 705 n53, 707 n60).

    Much of the support for the SSP comes from urban Sunni businessmen, many of whom emigrated from India at the time of partition and settled in Jhang where the SSP was founded (ibid., 706). Associations of local traders in Jhang and other urban centres "respond actively" to SSP strike calls and protest marches, the latter often originating in the main bazaars (ibid., 706-07). The party promotes its sectarian views through its official monthly organ, Khilifat-i Rashida (The Rightly Guided Caliphate), which is published in Faisalabad (ibid., 702 n41, 705, 710 n70), and through numerous pamphlets and booklets reproducing what it terms "objectionable material from the Shia history books," and urging the public to get rid of these "blasphemers"[17] (The Herald June 1994c, 31; The Friday Times 21-27 Nov. 1996, 7). Sources indicate that in addition to the support enjoyed from its urban political constituency the party has wealthy donors in the Middle East (Current History Apr. 1996, 161; The Herald Sept. 1998b, 29), although the Pakistani government once alleged the SSP was largely financed by the Indian and Iraqi intelligence agencies (ibid., June 1994a, 35). The SSP also maintains strong links to both factions of the JUI, reportedly differing with the JUI only over methodology, not beliefs (ibid., Sept. 1998b, 29), and to the Taliban, with which it has links through the JUI and JUI-run madrassas (Current History Feb. 1999, 85; U.S. Committee on Foreign Relations 8 Oct. 1998; The Herald Sept. 1998b, 29; The Friday Times 14-20 Aug. 1998). Many SSP militants are known to have obtained their military experience fighting alongside the Taliban in Afghanistan (U.S. Committee on Foreign Relations 8 Oct. 1998; The Friday Times 14-20 Aug. 1998), and received their training at camps which were probably run by the Kashmiri militant group Harkat-ul Ansar (HUA) in Afghanistan (JIR Oct 1997, 467; The Friday Times 14-20 Aug. 1998; The News International 4 Mar. 1999; The Herald Sept. 1998b, 28; ibid., Sept. 1998a, 26). The party reportedly maintains branches in the Middle East, Europe and North America[18] (Modern Asian Studies July 1998, 704 n51).

    In late 1996 The Friday Times reported that the SSP had shifted its headquarters from Jhang district to Bahawalnagar district, bordering Indian Rajasthan (21-27 Nov. 1996, 7). The move reportedly came after frequent crackdowns by police had broken its power base in Jhang, provoking an unsuccessful attempt to first shift its headquarters to Faisalabad, and then finally to Bahawalnagar district (ibid.). According to local sources who spoke to The Friday Times, the SSP located its headquarters in the district's two largest Deobandi madrassas–Jamiat-ul Aloom Eidgah in Bahawalnagar city, and Dar-ul Aloom Deoband Faqirwali in Fort Abbas subdivision (ibid.). In the months and years preceding its move the SSP had been responsible for a rapid escalation in anti-Shia agitation, violence and targeted killings in Bahawalnagar district, much of which also spilled over to the adjacent districts of Bahawalpur, Vehari and Kanewal (ibid.). Azhar Abbas indicates that the SSP has been expanding very rapidly in Sindh province in the last two years, although to date, Sindh has not seen a corresponding increase in sectarian violence (26 May 1999).

    Several high-profile SSP members, including sitting members of the provincial and national assemblies, have been implicated in sectarian murders (HRCP 1997, 87; The Friday Times 21-27 Nov. 1996, 7). These include Maulana Tariq Azam, SSP Member of the National Assembly (MNA) for Jhang during the second Bhutto government, named in 10 criminal cases, Maulana Zia-ur Rahman, named in 18 criminal cases, and Sheikh Hakim Ali, Member of the Provincial Assembly (MPA) and cabinet member, named in eight (HRCP 1997, 87-88; FEER 9 Mar 1995a, 24; The Friday Times 21-27 Nov. 1996, 7). Maulanas Tariq Azam and Zia-ur Rahman were implicated in the November 1995 murder of Shahnawaz Pirzada, an influential Shia in Bahawalnagar district and father of Riaz Pirzada, Pakistan People's Party (PPP) MNA in the second Bhutto government (The Friday Times 21-27 Nov. 1996, 6; Current History Apr. 1996, 158). The elder Pirzada had reportedly played an active role in getting SSP members charged in several murder cases (ibid.). One source reported that in 1995, SSP chief Azam, who travels with 40 heavily armed bodyguards, stated that he expects to die in a sectarian attack and carries his burial shroud with him at all times (FEER 9 Mar. 1995a, 24).

    Arrested SSP members have also admitted to involvement in armed robberies, some of these apparently carried out in "collaboration with elements of the Mohajir Qaumi Movement (MQM)," the Karachi-based ethno-political party involved in much of the violence in urban Sindh[19] (HRCP 1997, 87; The Age 27 Mar. 1995). One source quotes officials close to the Karachi police force as stating that in 1995 the MQM's Haqiqi faction (MQM-H) had 500 gunmen looking for work after being abandoned by an intelligence agency, and thus allied itself with the SSP (ibid.). The strategy, according to The Age, was to try to split the rival non-sectarian MQM-Altaf faction (MQM-A) group into Sunni and Shia factions, a goal the SSP supported (ibid.). Azhar Abbas indicates that currently there are no known links between violent sectarian groups and either faction of the MQM (26 May 1999). The 1995 SSP-MQM-H alliance was temporary and situation-specific, according to Abbas, who notes that Shia groups reacted by forming a temporary alliance with the MQM's Altaf faction (ibid.).

    The SSP has also spawned numerous splinter groups (The Herald June 1994c, 29; Choudary 29 May 1999). According to a January 1994 report prepared by a special branch of the Punjab police, many of these groups are "more personal mafias of influential feudals, led by local maulvis, than organisations in the real sense of the word" (The Herald June 1994c, 29). One police officer who spoke to The Herald described many of these splinter groups as "consist[ing] of thugs seeking a cover for their criminal activities" (ibid.), a characterization with which other sources agree (Choudary 29 May 1999; The Friday Times 21-27 Nov. 1996, 7; Muslimedia 16-31 Mar. 1998). Although all are anti-Shia in nature, according to The Herald, they are not coherent organizations with well-defined goals and cannot explain what makes them different from each other ( June 1994c, 29). The SSP has also produced at least five major splinter groups (ibid.) which will be considered in this paper.

    Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LJ) and the Harkat-ul Ansar (HUA)
    The Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LJ, Army of Jhangvi), named after assassinated SSP leader Maulana Haq Nawaz Jhangvi, was formed in 1995 or 1996 when radical elements within the SSP split from the party after the leadership opened a dialogue with the leaderships of militant Shia organizations (see section 6) (JIR Jan. 1999, 35; The Herald June 1997, 55; AFP 6 Apr. 1999a). This loose grouping of breakaway SSP men then established the LJ, led by Riaz Basra, who first came to prominence following the killing of an Iranian diplomat in Lahore in 1990 (HRCP 1997, 88; The Herald June 1997, 55; AFP 6 Apr. 1999a; ibid., 6 Apr. 1999b). Under Basra's leadership the LJ has become "one of the most dreaded" militant sectarian organizations in Pakistan in recent years (The Herald Sept. 1998b, 29; see also The Daily Star 7 Apr. 1999). Considered by its membership to be a 'jihadi' organization, the LJ's main battlefield lies within Pakistan, where it has admitted responsibility for numerous massacres of Shias and targeted killings of Shia religious and community leaders (JIR Jan. 1999, 35; The Herald Sept. 1998b, 29; HRCP 1997, 88; The News International 4 Mar. 1999), and in some cases Sunni officials (The Herald June 1997, 55). The group has carried out numerous attacks against Iranian interests and Iranian nationals in Pakistan (AFP 22 Feb. 1998; DPA 12 Jan. 1998; ibid., 21 Feb. 1998; HRCP 1998, 137), and has been implicated in the 3 January 1999 assassination attempt on Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif near Lahore (The News International 4 Mar. 1999; The Daily Star 7 Apr. 1999; AFP 6 Apr. 1999b; ibid., 6 Apr. 1999a). The LJ is said to be unique among militant sectarian groups as it is the only one that calls newspaper offices to claim responsibility for its attacks (The Herald Oct. 1997, 53; ibid., Feb. 1998a, 46). The group's actions and reasons for committing various attacks are often detailed in its Urdu-language magazine Inteqame Haq (Rightful Revenge), which reportedly is intended for top government leaders and high-ranking bureaucrats and police officials (ibid., Oct. 1997, 53).

    Reports in The Herald indicate the LJ has proven much more difficult for the police to infiltrate than was the SMP (ibid., Sept. 1998d, 18; ibid., Oct. 1997, 53; ibid., June 1997, 55). This difficulty is due partly to the ambiguous nature of the relationship that has evolved between the LJ and SSP (ibid.), and partly to the LJ's own organizational structure (ibid., Sept. 1998d, 18; ibid., Oct. 1997, 53). Publicly the SSP leadership insists the LJ is no longer connected to the SSP and denies any involvement in its activities (ibid., June 1997, 55; AFP 6 Apr. 1999a; ibid., 6 Apr. 1999b; The Herald June 1994c, 31), but as The Herald has noted, each organization complements the other well (ibid., June 1997, 55; ibid., June 1994c, 31). The LJ eases the burden on the SSP by carrying out attacks that might prove too politically costly for it (ibid., June 1997, 55; ibid., June 1994c, 31), and has carried out reprisal attacks for the killing of SSP men (ibid., June 1997, 55). While the LJ may not be taking direct orders from the SSP leadership, according to The Herald , "there is no doubt they are carrying out the mission of Maulana Jhangvi. … [A]part from the high-profile political activities of the Sipahe Sahaba, there is little to differentiate between the two organizations" (ibid.; see also ibid., May 1999a, 48). According to The Herald, the decentralization of command that has evolved, and the ease with which the SSP can disown terrorist acts, has proven to be a "nightmare" for the law enforcement agencies (ibid., June 1997, 55).

    The Lashkar-e-Jhangvi is organized into small cells of five to eight militants that operate independently of the others (ibid., Sept. 1998d, 18; ibid., Oct. 1997, 53; Dawn 3 Feb. 1999). Individual militants are reportedly unaware of the exact number of cells similar to their own that might be operating in Punjab (The Herald Sept. 1998d, 18), or the nature of upcoming operations (ibid., Oct. 1997, 53). Militants are given cellular phones, which allow the cells to contact one another as necessary (ibid.). After carrying out an attack LJ hitmen are left to their own devices (ibid.), often scattering and then reassembling at HUA-run camps in Afghanistan to plan future operations (The News International 4 Mar. 1999).

    One source indicates the job of the law enforcement agencies is sometimes made more difficult by their occasional successes against the LJ. According to The Herald, the arrest of several key SSP/LJ hitmen in the wake of the 11 January 1998 Mominpura graveyard massacre, mentioned earlier, had two unforeseen consequences: first, it drove the remaining known hitmen–Riaz Basra, Akram Lahori and others–completely underground, where, rather than risk capture by engaging in attacks themselves, they devoted their energies to training new recruits and directing operations; and second, the training allowed a new group of young men to become militants to replace those who had been arrested (Sept. 1998d, 18). Many of these new militants are between 16 and 20 years of age and very well-trained, according to police sources (ibid.). Such young militants generally do not have criminal records and therefore are difficult to identify and arrest, and they tend to be less concerned with how the organization works than with simply obeying the orders of their commanders (ibid.).

    Sources indicate the LJ has strong links to the Kashmiri militant group Harkat-ul Ansar (HUA) (ibid.; The Herald Sept. 1998b, 29; see also JIR Oct.1997, 467), and that many key LJ militants have received their military training in HUA-run camps in Afghanistan (The News International 4 Mar. 1999). A confidential intelligence report to the Pakistan government obtained by The News International states that in early 1999, 800 Pakistanis were under training at HUA's Khalid Bin Waleed camp in Afghanistan, most of them connected to the SSP/LJ (ibid.). According to the report, the standard training period "consists of 4-8 weeks during which the trainees are provided extensive training in handling of sophisticated small arms, … preparation and handling of improvised explosive devices and handling of explosives, [and] … hit-and-run tactics" (ibid.). The report states that the 11 January 1998 Mominpura massacre was carried out by HUA-trained LJ militants, as was the 3 January 1999 assassination attempt on Prime Minister Sharif (ibid.). At the time the intelligence report was written, Riaz Basra and several other LJ leaders had taken refuge in HUA camps in Afghanistan (ibid.).

    Recent sources indicate the law enforcement agencies may be gaining the upper hand in their fight against the LJ (also see section 6). The News International reports that on 16 November 1998 police arrested Mazhar-ul Haq–reportedly Riaz Basra's "right-hand man"–and 12 other LJ activists from Bhera, Gujrat and Bahauddin (ibid., 17 Nov. 1998). On 5 April 1999 Basra himself was reported to have been killed in a shootout with police in Sargodha, Punjab (The Daily Star 7 Apr. 1999; AFP 6 Apr. 1999a; Dawn 6 Apr. 1999b), but these reports were later denied by the Punjab government (AFP 6 Apr. 1999b; Xinhua 6 Apr. 1999; Radio Pakistan 7 Apr. 1999). On 14 April 1999 four LJ gunmen were killed at Langharwal, about 35 kilometres from Chiniot, on the main Jhang road, after a five-hour gun battle with elite special forces units (The Herald May 1999b, 49). Among the four militants was LJ second-in-command, Ejaz Ahmed Tara, alias Jajji, and Tariq Virk, reportedly the LJ's most experienced explosives expert (ibid.). Jajji and Virk had been implicated in major sectarian killings in Punjab, including that of MPA Ghulam Sawag (ibid.). The four were reportedly cornered by police after a botched attempt to kidnap a wealthy member of Rabwah's Qadiani community (ibid.).

    -----------------------------------------------------
    Here is the track record of these terrorists

    Year 2005



    July 17: Quetta Professor Syed Tahir Hussain Rizvi was shot dead in Quetta by two Wahabi terorists. His wife, Dr Nadir Khan, was severely injured in the attack.


    May 30: Karachi Five people were killed, including two suicide bombers, in an attack at Madintul Ilm Imambargah in the Gulshan e Iqbal area of Karachi.


    May 27: Islamabad At least 20 people were killed and many injured when a suicide bomber exploded himself in a mixed crowd of Shia and Sunni devotees gathered at the shrine of sufi saint Bari Shah Latif.


    March 19: Gandhawa At least 43 people were killed when a Sipah e Sahaba terrorist exploded himself in a mixed crowd of Shia and Sunni devotees at the shrine of sufi saint Pir Rakhel Shah in Baluchistan province.



    Year 2004



    October 01: Sialkot At least 30 Shia worshipers were killed and more than 50 injured when a suspected suicide bomber detonated an explosive device at a mosque during Friday prayers.


    September 06: Quetta A retired professor Ateeq Hasan Naqvi was waiting at bus stop to return home from his private school when motorcyclists opened fire on him killing him on the spot.


    June 6: Lahore Former provincial minister Pir Binyamin Rizvi was shot dead along with his driver and bodyguard


    June 5: Dera Ghazi Khan Dr. Surrayia Nisar Khosa was shot dead in her Al-Zahrah(AS) hopital by Wahabi terrorists.


    May 31 : Karachi 26 Shias, including seven children were killed by Wahabi terrorists in a suicide attack at Imam Ali Reza Mosque.


    May 14: Lahore Six people from a family, including 2 children - one an infant - were killed by Wahabi terrorists.


    May 07: KarachiAt least 30 Shia worshipers were killed and hundreds injured by Wahabis in a suicide bomb attack at a mosque during Friday prayers.


    March 03: Quetta At least 47 people including five police officers, were killed and 160 injured when Whabis attacked a mourning procession


    February 28: Rawalpindi Three children were injured when a suicide bomber blew himself up at a Shia mosque.


    Year 2003



    October 03:Karachi 6 Shia Muslim employees of SPARCO killed and 7 others injured by Wahabi terrorists.


    August 16:Karachi Syed Wajeeh Haider, A 75 year old shopkeeper, shot dead by Wahabi mullahs in his shop.


    August 16:Karachi Dr. Ibn-e-Hassan, 45, was shot dead by Wahabi mullahs near his clinic.


    July 05:Renala Khord Catholic priest Father George Ibrahim was gunned down at his home by Wahabi mullahs.


    July 04:Quetta 50 Shia Muslims were killed and 65 others injured when Wahabi terrorists carried out a suicide attack at a mosque during Friday prayers in Quetta.


    June 08:Quetta 12 Shia police cadets were killed and 8 seriously injured by Wahabi mullahs in Quetta.


    June 06:Quetta Syed Niaz Hussain, Vice-President of Imambargah Sajjadia Sariab Road was killed by Wahabi terrorists.


    February 27:Karachi Two Shia men, Ghulam Hussain and his nephew Baqar Raza, were shot dead at their bakery by three Sipah e Sahaba terrorists.


    February 22:Karachi Nine Shia Muslims were killed and 10 injured when 4 Wahabi terrorists opened fire at worshipers in Mahdi Imambargah near the Karachi airport.



    Year 2002




    December 21: Sawhiwal DR Syed Zahid Hasnain Sherazi, Child Specialist, District Headquarters Hospital Sahiwal was attacked and seriously injured by Wahabi militants.


    November 01ahore Capt Syed Imran Zaidi (retired), a 45 year-old doctor, was shot dead at his clinic on Wazeer Ali Road by a Wahabi terrorist


    September 30:Charsada Agha Danish Alvi, a teacher at a government primary school, was shot dead by Wahabi terrorists inside the school premises.


    August 10:Texila Three nurses were killed and 25 people were injured when Wahabis threw grenades on a chapel in the Taxila Christian Hospital


    August 09:Quetta Brigadier Bartar Hussain Naqvi critically injured by Wahabi terrorists.


    August 05:Murree Six people were killed when Wahabi militants opened fire at a Christian School in Murree


    June 26:Waziristan Agency !0 Pakistani soldiers were martyred in a gun-battle with Wahabi terrorists belonging to Al-Qaeda. Names of the martyrs: Maj Rizwan, Lance Naik Sajawal, Sepoys Ishaq, Safdar Khan and Fazle Rabbi of the Baluch Regiment, and Capt Naeem, Lance Naik Hazrat Hussain, Lance Naik Din Muhammad, Sepoy Jameel Khan and Lance Abdus Samad of the South Waziristan Scouts.


    June 17:Multan 3 Shia youths were shot dead by Wahabi terrorists near Imam Bargah Al-Hussaini in New Multan. The victims were identified as Hassan Raza Zaidi, his younger brother Ali Raza Zaidi and their friend Raza Haider


    June 14:Karachi 11 killed in suicide bomb attack at the U.S. consulate.


    May 25:Karachi Wahabi terrorists shot dead Agha Abbas, owner of a juice center in Nazimabad. Gul Zaman, a worker was wounded in the attack.


    May 8:Karachi 11 French navy experts and two Pakistanis killed by a suicide bomber outside Sheraton Hotel


    May 7ahore Renowned Sunni scholar Dr Ghulam Murtaza Malik, his driver and a policeman were shot dead by terrorists


    May 7:Karachi 32 years-old Shia Muslim, Syed Asghar Ali Ziadi was shot dead by Sipah e Sahaba at his tailoring shop in Karachi


    May 6:Karachi Syed Zafar Mehdi Zaidi, a prominent Shia figure and principal of Jamia Millia Technical College, Malir was shot dead along with his driver Qamar Zaman, and his peon, Mukhtar by Sipah e Sahaba terrorists. Qamar Zaman and Mukhtar belonged to the Sunni sect of Islam.


    May 5:Karachi Dr Athar Hussain Rizvi, aged 50 was shot at and injured by Sipah e Sahaba terrorists at his clinic in F-South in Khokhrapar.


    April 25:Bhakkar 7 women and 5 children were killed and at least 50 injured in a bomb blast at a religious gathering of thousands of Shia Muslims in the grounds of a mosque. A Wahabi terrorist using the name, Tauseef Ali was arrested on May 5, 2002 in connection to the Bhakkar massacre.


    April 23:Karachi Nasir Ali - aged 20 and Aal e Raza Rizvi aged - 30 were shot dead by Sipah e Sahaba terrorists in Orangi Town area. Their third victim 18 year-old Fahad Hussain was wounded in the attack


    April 10:Karachi Isfahan Haider, a 37 year-old shopkeeper was shot dead by Sipah e Sahaba in North Nazimabad


    March 19ahore Professor Attaur Rahman, a prominent Sunni scholar was shot dead along with his driver by Sipah e Sahaba terroristsThe same terrorists then shot dead Syed Hasan Raza, a Shia Muslim who was standing outside a mosque near Professor Rehman's institue, Idara Minhaj ul Quran in the Jain Mandir area.


    March 17:Islamabad 5 people were killed and 45 injured in a grenade attack carried out by Wahabi terrorists on a crowded Protestant church.


    March 12:Karachi Anwar Ali Tirmizi and Zulfiqar Haider killed by the Sipah e Sahaba at a Tehrik e Jafria office in Shah Faisal Colony.


    March 12:Shahkot Syed Gul Hassnain was killed along with his driver by Sipah e Sahaba terrorists in Shahkot (60 Kilometeres west of Multan).


    March 12:Karachi Sipah e Sahaba terrorists attacked a Shia family killing three brothers Ahsan Ali, Mohsin Ali and Abbas Ali while their fourth brother, Irfan Ali was wounded in the attack.


    March 11:Karachi Three doctors, Dr Ali Jaffar Naqvi, Dr Bilal and Dr Shahnaz Ahad escaped an attacked by Sipah e Sahaba terrorists in Defence Housing Authority


    March 08:Karachi Dr. Muzaffar Ali Soomro was killed by Wahabis in Gizri, Clifton.


    March 05:Karachi Dr. Aale Safdar Zaidi was killed by Wahabis in Gizri, Clifton.


    January 29:Karachi Jawwad Rizvi, a retired employee of an insurance company in his early-60s was shot dead and his friend Zumarrud Hussain Jaffery wounded seriously by suspected Sipah e Sahaba terrorists.


    January 23:Karachi Wall Street journalist Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and brutally murdered by Wahabi terrorists.


    January 09:Karachi A Shia official Syed Hasan Ali shot dead by Sipah e Sahaba

    Syed Rashid Mehdi was also shot dead by Wahabis in the Hussainabad area of Karachi. We were unable to get the exact date of his martyrdom.



    Year 2001




    November 15:Karachi A Shia industrialist, Syed Hasan Abidi shot dead.


    October 28:Bahawalpur 15 Christian worshipers and a Muslims guard were killed at St. Dominic's Church by Wahabis. Shafiq-ur-Rehman, a Sipah e Sahaba terrorist was arrested on November 01 in connection to the church massacre


    October 10:KARACHI: Sindh Board of Technical Education Chairman Syed Hassan Zaidi gunned down


    October 09:KARACHI: College principal Syed Gul Imam Shah shot dead


    October 04:KARACHI: 7 Shia Muslims were killed and 6 injured when Sipah e Sahaba terrorists opened fire at worshippers at Ali Murtaza Mosque (Azam Basti).


    September 13: QUETTA: Professor Atiq Hasan Naqvi hurt, son killed in Quetta


    September 12: KARACHI: Pesh Imam of Defence mosque, Allama Syed Razi Hyder and his son shot dead


    September 10: KARACHI: Capt (Retd) Altaf Hussain Bungasha, a PTCL official, killed


    September 04: KARACHI: Pesh Imam of Hussainiya Sajjadiya, Maulana Hussnain Naqvi, shot dead


    September 01: KARACHI: Three, including Hamid Rizvi, gunned down


    August 29: QUETTA: Masked men kill civil engineer Syed Abid Abbas Naqvi


    August 18: KARACHI: Grenade attack on Pesh-Imam of Masjid-e-Shah-e-Khorrasan


    July 30: KARACHI: Syed Zafar Hussain, Director R&D in the Ministry of Defence killed


    July 30: LAHORE: Imam Masjid Syed Rizwanul Hassan killed


    July 28: MULTAN: Former MPA Siddiq Kanju and friend shot dead


    July 26: KARACHI: Shaukat Raza Mirza, MD of PSO, and driver shot dead


    July 24: MAILSI: Religious leader Syed Ziaul Hassan Kirmani and others killed


    July 20: KARACHI: Commissioner office staffer shot dead in Lines Area


    July 15: KARACHI: Another Shia killed in Orangi Town


    July 09: KARACHI: Two gunned down outside Imambargah


    July 08: KARACHI: Doctor Ishrat Hussain falls prey to Wahabism


    July 03: Rahimyarkhan: Syed Ibrar Hussain, a computer engineer and member of Imambargah Hussaineya was brutally beaten up at his shop by Sipah e Sahaba terrorists. Ibrar died later in the hospital.


    June 27: DERA ISMAIL KHAN: Top Shia leader, Syed Hassan Ali Kazmi, gunned down by SSP terrorists


    June 26:Karachi: Dr. Mohammad Raza, was shot dead by Wahabis in Saeedabad area.


    June 26: KARACHI: Shia doctor shot dead in Soldier Bazaar


    June 17:Karachi: Dr. Asad Ali was killed by Wahabis in Saeedabad area.


    June 14: MULTAN: Two Shias shot dead


    June 01:Karachi: Dr. Raza Mohammad Jafri was killed by Wahabis in the Gulshan area.


    May 31: KARACHI: Doctor shot dead in Gulshan-e-Iqbal


    May 24:Karachi: Dr. Syed Javed Nazim was killed by Wahabis on M T Khan Road.


    May 21:Karachi: Dr. Raza Mehdi Jafri was killed by Wahabis in Gulshan e Iqbal area.


    May 18: KARACHI: Sunni Tehrik Chief, six others shot dead in Karachi


    May 09: KARACHI: Two shot and wounded in Orangi Town


    May 07: NOWSHERA: Ali Sarwar Sarhadi, a Shia leader fired upon



    May 07: DERA ISMAIL KHAN: Senior Superintendent of Police Ijaz Ahmad Langarial shot dead


    April 28: KARACHI: Sub-inspector Syed Hashim Raza shot dead


    April 3:VEHARI: Former TJP leader shot dead


    March 22:Multan: Lashkar man confesses to several killings


    March 18:Karachi Dr. Zahid Hussain was killed by Wahabis in Al-Asif Square area.


    March 4: 12 killed in attacks on Shias in Sheikhupura


    March 2: Tehrik-i-Jafria worker shot dead in Karachi


    March 1: Riots claim 8 lives after attack on Shias in Hangu


    Febuary 26: TJP activist shot dead in Vehari


    Febuary 22: Lawyer dies in Gujranwala terrorist attack


    Febuary 22: Ex-DSP, son shot dead; attackers arrested in Karachi


    Febuary 18: Three killed in sectarian attack in Faisalabad


    Febuary 17: Bodyguard killed in attack on TJP leader in Jhang


    Febuary 9: Two shot dead in Karachi


    Febuary 7: TJP activist, another man shot dead in Tank


    Febuary 6: Two TJP activists shot dead in Karachi


    January 25: Tehrik Jafaria man shot dead in Multan


    January 20: Iranian religious scholar shot dead in Karachi



    Year 2000



    December 30: TJP leader shot dead, wife injured in Karachi


    December 16: DSP Lahore Tariq Kamboh and his driver were gunned down


    December 04: Human rights activist & Former PPP MPA, Syed Zakir Hussain Shah shot in Rawalpindi


    December 02: Dr. Nayyar Hussain gunned down in Orangi Town


    November 24: TJP Secretary-General Anwar Ali Akhunzada shot dead in Peshawar


    October 31: Dr. Altaf Husain killed in Orangi Town


    October 30r. Karamat Ali shot dead in Orangi Town


    June 27:Four Lashkar-e-Jhangvi activists arrested in Karachi for killing Dr Adib-ul-Hasan Rizvi & Dr Zafar Naqvi of Malir and others


    June 14ashkar-e-Jhangvi activist confesses to killing 6 Shia leaders


    June 06:Karachi: Dr. Wahid Baloch was killed by Wahabis in the Pakistan Quarters area.


    May 16:Critically wounded brother of a local Shia leader in Hyderabad


    May 15:Advocate Syed Sardar Jafary, President of Voice of Shia Organisation shot dead in Karachi


    May 15:Killer of Magistrate Syed Fida Husain, his daughter Batool and gunman, held in Gujranwala


    May 3:Advocate Malik Ibrar Hussain shot dead in Toba Tek Singh


    May 2:Syed Sibtain Hasan Dosa and two others shot dead in Karachi


    April 28:TJP activist Shahbaz Hussain Shirazi shot dead in Chishtian


    April 26:Advocate Syed Farrukh Birjees Haider Tirmizi and another shot dead in Khanewal


    April 19:Iqbal Hussain shot dead in Multan


    April 12:17 people killed in an attack on a Majlis in Malohwali. Attock


    April 7:TJP leader Syed Waqar Hussain Naqvi shot dead along with his son and driver

    Syed Munir Hussain Zaidi,
    Dr. Karamat Hussain and
    Dr. Syed Nayyar Hussain were also shot dead by Wahabis in the year 2000 in Aurangi Town, Karachi. We were unable to get the exact dates of their martyrdom.



    Year 1999





    October 07:Aun Mohammad Rizvi of PTV was shot dead in Rawalpindi


    October 07: Dr. Aale Hussain and his son were shot dead by Sipah e Sahaba on Abul Hasan Isphahani Road in Karachi.


    October 1,:9 Shot Dead in Malir Imambargah in Karachi


    September 30:Advocate Ejaz Rasoolnagri killed in sectarian attack


    September 28:Advocate Khurshid Anwar advocate, his daughter Ume Laila and his guard shot dead near Bannu


    January 05era Ismail KhanDr.Ali Bangash was shot dead by Sipah e Sahaba terrorists



    Year 1998





    December 27:Ghazi Abad, Chichawatni Syed Taqi Mohsin S/O Syed Ashiq Hussain was killed by Wahabi terrorists.


    October 07:Ijaz Hussain shot dead in Khanewal


    September 29olice Constable Maqbool Hussain shot dead in Multan


    September 22: Five shot dead in attack on Majlis near Multan


    May 05: Pir Shakoor Ali Jafari, President Tehrik e Jafaria, Lahore Cantt., was killed by a Wahabi terrorist at his home in Lahore.


    March 30:3 Shias shot dead in Multan


    Febuary 21:Two Iranian Engineers shot dead in Karachi


    January11: 25 Shia Muslims including children were killed and many injured when Sipah e Sahaba terrorists opened fire at a funeral gathering at a graveyard in Momin Pura, Lahore




    Year 1997





    November 03Two brothers, Aulad Hussain Shah and Baqar Hussain Naqvi killed in Sialkot


    October 21: DSP Syed Tanveer Haider was killed at his home in Gulshan-e-Iqbal, Karachi by Wahabi terrorists


    August 4:Jhang Syed Mujahid Hussain was shot dead by Sipah e Sahaba terrorists.


    August 10:Karachi Dr. Jaffar Abbas Zaidi was brutally murdered by Sipah Sahaba terrorists in the premises of Abbasi Shaheed hospital where he was serving as medical superintendent.


    July 30:Sahiwal Advocate Syed Abid Hussain and his son Advocate Syed Haider Abbas were killed by Wahabi terrorists.


    July 01:Khanewal 47 year-old Mohummad Badar Abbas s/o Syed Jamshed Hussain was martyred by terrorists belonging to Sipah e Sahaba.


    May 14kara President of Evan e Hussain, Okara Dr Hadi Hussain was shot dead by Wahabi terrorists.


    May 6:SSP Ashraf Marth and his driver Tabbasum Zamir shot dead


    April 14kara Dr Syed Ijaz Imam was shot dead by Wahabi terrorists.


    March 19:Jhang Syed Mahmood-ul-Hassan was shot dead atAAyub Chowk in Jahang City by Sipah e Sahaba terrorists. Five months later, his son Syed Mujahid Hussain was also shot dead.


    Febuary 20:Seven, including Iranian diplomat, gunned down at Iranian Centre in Multan


    January 04:Chichawatni Shaikh Barkat Ali and his nephew were killed by Wahabi terrorists.

    The following were also killed in the same year. We were unable to get the exact dates of their martyrdom.

    Dr. Mansoor Anis: Aurangi Town, Karachi.
    Anisul Hasan Rizvi: Saeedabad, Karachi.
    Iqtidaar Sajjad Naqvi: Korangi, Karachi.
    Syed Jaffer Abbasi: Nazimabad, Karachi.
    Dr. Shakir Ali: Nazimabad, Karachi.
    Pervaiz Akhtar Naqvi: Saudabad, Karachi.
    Syed Ali Jaan Jafri: Mohammad Hussain Road, Karachi.
    Mehdi Hussain: Karachi.
    Dr Muhammad Ali Naqvi: Lahore
    Dr Qaider Reza Sayal: Lahore



    Year 1996



    December 31: Syed Zulfiqar Hussain Naqvi, an advocate and General Secretary of Tehrik e Jafaria, was shot dead by Wahabi terrorists of Lashkar e Jhangavi along with his young son Amar Haider and three other people in Lahore.


    September 12: Allama Mureed Abbas Yazdani shot dead in Islamabad


    August 06: Medical Technologist, Syed Ali Imam Rizvi was killed by Wahabis in Islamabad.


    August 05: Police Commissioner Syed Tajammul Abbas was assasinated by Wahabi Sipah e Sahaba in Sargodha


    Year 1995



    March 09:10 killed and 22 wounded in an attack on a Shia mosque


    February 25: 16 Shia Muslims were killed and many injured when Wahabis belonging to Sipah e Sahaba attacked worshippers at Mehfil e Murtaza, a Shia mosque in Karachi. (This attack was carried out 2 hours after the killings at Abul Fazal Al-Abbas Mosque


    February 25: 6 Shia Muslims were killed and 16 injured when Sipah e Sahaba terrorists opened fire at worshippers inside Abul Fazal Al-Abbas Mosque in Karachi.



    Year 1994

    September 12r Abul Qasim Jiwa murdered in Nazimabad, Karachi




    Year 1990



    December 19, 1990:Agha-i-Sadiq Ganji killed in Multan

  22. #22
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    Are sipah-e-sahaba and lashkar-e-jhanvi part of MMA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by robosapien
    After pak won 86-87 series in india, indian president remarked that two jalandhris had made their life hell!! (he was referring to imran and zia-ulhaq)
    I guess you need to understand the difference between Sarcastic comments and facts.

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    A fair thing to say would be that MMA and MQM alike - both dont care anything about Pakistan, they are all working for thier own vested interests and power by using thier ideologies.

    As far as the thread goes, Imran is a patriotic person we should all fall behind him as he is only credible leader at the moment from the opposition.
    Last edited by Zechariah; 20th June 2007 at 05:14.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ali110
    I guess you need to understand the difference between Sarcastic comments and facts.
    ji janaab!

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    Quote Originally Posted by robosapien
    Are sipah-e-sahaba and lashkar-e-jhanvi part of MMA?
    Molana Azam Tariq and SSP were intially part of the grand religious alliance that became the MMA after Musharraf. If I remember correctly he was part of MMA before he got assasinated even after SSP got banned by Mushy.

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    So, MQM consists of saints..........???

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    so the SSP are just as bad as the MQM..whats new..but youre claim is that the MMA mullahs have killed thousands upon thousands of people which surely is an exaggeration...as for Muslims killing Muslims all over the world..well lets not go there as that a whole another topic..there is no doubt many of these groups are infiltrated..so are many so called jihadi groups in the world..im not saying the Mullahs are saints far from it, but to say they have killed thousands is really an exaggeration...and as for Hasan the closet altaf lover..cmon just come out and tell us you really love the guy!!

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    Hasan the closet altaf lover..cmon just come out and tell us you really love the guy!!
    You my friend are a classic example of a *****.

    You have failed to grasp a very simple issue, that is I do not distinguish between the behaviour of the MQM and MMA, they both have their hands stained by the blood of innocent Pakistanies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan
    so the SSP are just as bad as the MQM..whats new..but youre claim is that the MMA mullahs have killed thousands upon thousands of people which surely is an exaggeration...as for Muslims killing Muslims all over the world..well lets not go there as that a whole another topic..there is no doubt many of these groups are infiltrated..so are many so called jihadi groups in the world..im not saying the Mullahs are saints far from it, but to say they have killed thousands is really an exaggeration...and as for Hasan the closet altaf lover..cmon just come out and tell us you really love the guy!!
    Atleast now you agree that SSP/MMA or infact most of the religous parties in pakistan are as bad as MQM. The thing I am trying to prove is that whether it's MQM or any other party, they all are responsible for killings whether it's in the name of Mohajir rights (MQM) or so called Jihad (most of the MMA parties). To add more into this, do you aware of what these **** Chaudry's, Wadairas, Sardars or Lala's do to their local ppl. Those stories never comes out in open except few.
    Last edited by ali110; 20th June 2007 at 14:38.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ehjaz
    So, MQM consists of saints..........???
    and where did you get this? Are you referring to me. As far as I know no one in this thread mention this.

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    Hassan seems to be harboring a belief that all sunni mullahs are somehow supporting terrorism. SSP has not only been linked in the highly questionable collection of events to JUI but they have been labeled a sub-organisation of them.

    F.Rehman is without a doubt related to the Taliban but the Taliban can be labeled a totalitarian regime not a terrorist organisation. If we want to go down the route of a million link chain by highlighting Taliban's relations with Al-qaeda than by association all the world is one big terrorist organisation.


    []Wazeeri aka Shaheed Benazir Bhutto Wazeeri[/]

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    Taliban can be labeled a totalitarian regime not a terrorist organisation
    If the following is not terrorism then I am sorry to say but you have a very distorted take on reality.

    How the Taliban slaughtered thousands of people


    No mercy: men, women and children were murdered in their homes as Taliban gunmen took over Mazar-e-Sharif

    The Sunday Times , Nov.1,1998
    By Michael Sheridan

    THE first detailed eyewitness accounts of the massacre of up to 8,000 people by Islamic fundamentalist Taliban fighters who ran amok in the northern Afghan city of Mazar-e-Sharif last August have been passed to western governments.

    Testimony compiled by international observers and handed to western diplomats in Pakistan reveals that hundreds of people were packed into containers where they suffocated when the doors were locked in the searing midday heat. Men, women and children were shot in their homes and on the street, and hospital patients were murdered in their beds.

    The massacre occurred when, during an offensive aimed at seizing full control of Afghanistan for the first time, Mazar-e-Sharif was overrun by the Taliban, who have imposed the world's most extreme interpretation of Islam, barring women from education, banning television and forcing men to wear beards.

    Statements made available to The Sunday Times describe a campaign of slaughter directed against a Shia Muslim minority, the Hazara. The evidence, regarded by experienced aid officials as "highly credible", paints a ghastly picture of butchery and rape as the Taliban shot and cut the throats of Hazaras.

    The claims are supported by the influential American group Human Rights Watch, which is due to reveal its own findings on the massacre today and will call on the United Nations to investigate what it describes as "one of the single worst examples of killings of civilians in Afghanistan's 20-year war".

    The detailed evidence of Taliban atrocities will embarrass western policymakers who still see the fundamentalists as useful players in a modern "great game" to keep Iranian and Russian influence out of Afghanistan and so ensure that the huge oil and gas riches of central Asia remain a prize for western multinationals.

    Ten diplomats from Tehran were among those who died, prompting Iran to mass 200,000 troops on its border with Afghanistan to bolster demands for the killers to be handed over for trial. Troop "manoeuvres" were due to begin yesterday.

    Based on eyewitness statements, The Sunday Times has pieced together an account of the nightmare that engulfed Mazar-e-Sharif when the Taliban entered the city from the west on the morning of August 8. They were intent on avenging a massacre of some 2,000 of their own men in 1997, when the Hazaras and other fighters turned against them.

    There ensued what one witness called "a frenzy" of vengeance killing. The Taliban fighters swept through the city, firing heavy machineguns mounted on pickup trucks. One man described how the streets were covered with bodies and blood. The Taliban, he said, forbade anyone to bury the corpses for six days.

    On the second day, according to numerous witnesses, the Taliban began a house-to-house search for Hazara men. Hazaras, descended from Mongols, are easy to recognise by their distinctive Asiatic features compared with the ethnic Pashtuns who make up the ranks of the Taliban. They share their Shia faith with Iran, while the Taliban are Sunni Muslims.

    A witness whose testimony is described as "extremely reliable" by aid officials said most of the victims had been shot in the head, the chest and the testicles. Others had been slaughtered in what he called "the halal way" - by having their throats slit.

    One housewife, who has since fled to Pakistan, said the Taliban entered her house and shot her husband and her two brothers dead. Then they cut the men's throats in front of the woman and her children.

    Another piece of testimony explained why one Taliban was "very worried he might be excluded from heaven". He had personally shot people in nearly 30 houses, opting to kill them as soon as they opened the door. After killing the men in two homes, he learnt that they were not Hazara but Pashtun. "That he had killed people in 28 Hazara households seemed not to cause him any concern at all," the witness said.

    Men not murdered on the spot were "stuffed into containers after being badly beaten", said another witness. He saw the doors opened on a container after all the men inside had died from suffocation.

    He also testified that some containers were filled with children who were taken to an unknown destination after their parents had been killed.

    Human Rights Watch has obtained gruesome confirmation of the Taliban's penchant for death by container. It quotes a man who was detained by the militia and saw container trucks filled with victims leaving the Mazar-e-Sharif jail several times every day.

    Once he watched as the Taliban opened the container doors to find three prisoners alive and about 300 dead. The Taliban drove the trucks to a desert site known as Dasht-e-Leili and ordered porters to dump the cargo of corpses in the sands.

    The Human Rights Watch report and other statements identify three Taliban leaders who appear to be guilty of incitement to kill victims purely because of their ethnic origin. They are:

    Mullah Manon Niazi, the new Taliban governor of Mazar-e-Sharif. Numerous witnesses heard him make speeches at mosques and on radio inciting hatred of Hazaras. "Wherever you go we will catch you," he said. "If you go up, we will pull you down by your feet; if you hide below we will pull you up by your hair." One witness testified that Niazi personally selected prisoners to be consigned to the death containers.

    Mullah Musa, the so-called director of public health. A witness said Musa toured a public hospital looking for Hazara patients to mark out for death. Later that day, the witness heard from a doctor that Musa had taken a group of gunmen to the army hospital, where they had murdered all 20 or so patients, and relatives who had been visiting them.

    Maulawi Mohammed Hanif, a Taliban commander who announced to a crowd of 300 people summoned to a mosque that the policy of the Taliban was to "exterminate" the Hazaras.

    International aid workers fear the killings are continuing following the recent fall of the central Afghan town of Bamiyan. They have said thousands of people remain unaccounted for.

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    Taliban can be labeled a totalitarian regime not a terrorist organisation
    Taliban Atrocities

    Confidential UN report details mass killings of civilian villagers



    By Edward A. Gargan
    Staff Correspondent

    October 12, 2001

    Islamabad, Pakistan -- Fighters and commanders of Afghanistan's ruling Taliban militia have committed systematic massacres in recent years while trying to consolidate control over northern and western Afghanistan, according to confidential United Nations documents made available to Newsday.

    The reports, written by UN personnel in Afghanistan, say such mass killings were ordered or approved by the Taliban leader, Mullah Mohammed Omar. UN officials who investigated a series of massacres of at least 178 people in January in the Yakaolang district of north-central Afghanistan said they had found witnesses to radio conversations between Omar and the teams of Taliban troops conducting the killings.

    At Yakaolang, as in other such massacres, the Taliban, ethnic Pashtuns of the Sunni sect of Islam, particularly targeted ethnic Hazaras, who belong to the Shiite sect.

    "These are the same type of war crimes as were committed in Bosnia” and should be prosecuted in international courts, said a UN official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. UN staffers said they made the reports available out of frustration that the top levels of the UN structure have done too little to have the atrocities designated as war crimes.

    In January, when the first accounts of the Yakaolang killings trickled out of Afghanistan, the Taliban vigorously denied them. But in April, UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan noted to the Security Council that accounts of the killings "warrant a more thorough investigation.”

    UN staffers in Afghanistan collected eyewitness accounts of the massacres, visited mass graves of their victims, and in July, wrote a detailed 55-page report that they said was sent to Annan's office and to that of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Mary Robinson.

    Spokesmen for Annan and Robinson said yesterday the United Nations still aims to more fully investigate the Yakaolang killings, but has been stymied by the Taliban. "We've tried to get people in to investigate the massacres -- to do the forensic investigation and interview witnesses,” said Jose Diaz, a spokesman in Geneva for Robinson. But the Taliban has blocked those efforts, he said.

    UN staffers in Afghanistan collected eyewitness accounts of each massacre, including names of many of those who conducted them and those killed. Their reporting also notes the roles played by "foreign militia,” -- Pakistanis and fighters with Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida organization.

    "There have been 15 massacres of civilians over the last four years,” said one of the UN officials. "These have been highly systematic and they all lead back to the Ministry of Defense or to Mullah Omar himself. If there is a massacre, it has been authorized by him or the ministry of defense. And the firing squads are presided over by the biggest commanders.”

    The exhaustive, clinical report describes the massacres in Yakaolang, a district of Bamiyan province that straddles a key supply route to northern Afghanistan. Bamiyan is the province where Taliban zealots earlier this year destroyed two ancient Buddhas carved into a mountainside.

    The Taliban briefly lost control of Yakaolang in December 2000, when an ethnic Hazara militia, the Hezbi Wahdat, seized the area. The atrocities occurred the following month, after the Taliban returned.

    Based on interviews with several hundred people who survived or who witnessed the massacres, as well as preliminary forensic work on grave sites, the report was written to provide the basis for a prosecution of Taliban commanders and leaders for crimes against humanity. It describes victims being lined up, their hands tied behind their backs, shot and dumped in mass graves, of a young boy being skinned alive, of civilians being beaten to death, all during a two-week reign of terror by some of the Taliban's most senior commanders and Arab militants.

    "In no way was Yakaolang an isolated, or locally organized event,” but rather a "a centrally organized operation,” the report said. Thus, "it seems clear that the Taliban central command in the Ministry of Defense in Kabul and the Office of the Amirul Momineen” -- the "Commander of the Faithful,” meaning Omar -- "would have been kept abreast of developments throughout the operation.”

    The UN staffers said they had evidence of radio conversations between Omar, at his base in the southern city of Kandahar, and those committing the massacres. The staffers said other top Taliban officials also supervised the operation by radio. They identified them as the chief of army staff, Mullah Fazil, Intelligence Minister Qari Ahmadullah and Defense Minister Ubaidullah Akhund.

    The targeting of the Shiite Hazaras in the Yakaolang killings was nothing new. Many within the Taliban consider adherents of Shia Islam to be apostates, and Taliban-Hazara fighting has been among the most vicious in Afghanistan's recent years of civil war.

    In 1998, when the Taliban captured the northern city of Mazar-i-Sharif, they massacred hundreds of residents, perhaps more, "often shooting Hazaras in the street or in their houses,” according to a report soon after by the New York-based group, Human Rights Watch. That massacre was seen as reprisal for a 1997 massacre by Hazaras of an estimated 2,000 Taliban fighters who had surrendered in a battle at Mazar-i-Sharif.

    In one of the 20 massacres in Yakaolang detailed by the report, "survivors of the firing squad ... overheard the Talib , inspecting the bodies after the firing, saying, ‘all the Hazara, Shia, non-believer infidels are dead,'” the UN account said.

    One of the massacres occurred in Nayak, a village tucked into the Darra Ali Valley. "People of Yakaolang considered Darra Ali to be a safe haven, where civilians could hide during political or military turmoil,” the report said.

    On Jan. 6, the report said, Taliban fighters in eight Toyota pickups entered the village at 10 a.m. Over the next five hours, "the Taliban search party rounded up all the males they could find. The conduct of the search operation belies any notion of a military purpose. Men were rounded up indiscriminately and those detained consisted exclusively of civilians.”

    "After completion of their search operation, the Taliban herded the detainees toward Nayak center. Taliban horsemen "beat the men with whips, sticks and rifle butts, to keep them moving down the road.” In the evening, "the detainees were unloaded from the truck and split into two groups. Taliban then shot them in firing squads.”

    The account of this massacre -- in which 37 men, including farmers, a baker, a carpenter and shopkeepers, were executed -- was substantiated by numerous eyewitnesses, the report said.

    "When I got there,” said one UN investigator, bloody clothes, cartridges were still there. I saw the bodies. The bodies were in mass graves with their hands tied behind their backs.”

    In villages throughout the district, Taliban execution squads rounded up male civilians, beat and tortured many of them, and executed them in batches of six, their arms tied behind them. In Bedmushkin village, the report describes how Taliban executioners "skinned from head to chest” a young man named Mahr Ali and dumped his body behind the former office of the relief organization, Oxfam.

    It quoted eyewitnesses in many villages as describing Arab fighters carrying long knives used for slitting throats and skinning people.

    In the report, 178 individuals are identified by name, age and occupation as having been executed during the rampage through Yakaolang district.

    "The organized way in which the massacre took place, plus the length of time over which it took place, plus the fact that the killings took place at a time when the Taliban force was maintaining contact with its command, indicates that the higher level command of the Taliban armed forces sanctioned the massacre,” the report said.

    "Our goal is to indict these people,” said a UN investigator. "There has to be accountability. These are crimes against humanity, pure and simple.”

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    Whats the point of having a debate that goes all over the place.
    I just hate the fact that Imran would say something so patronizing. Its not Imran vs. Mohajirs its not even Imran vs. MQM its basically Imran vs. Altaf. So whats the point of saying you are a Mohajir from your mother's side at this point in time. So that people would connect with you? Even if you are what does that have to do with anything?

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    can any one check if he is Afghan from his grand parent side as well ? thanks

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    Its true we are basti patans are technically mahajirs. we had to migrate from jalander.

    his niazi side has afghan heritage. as niazis miagrated from afghanistan.


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    Quote Originally Posted by safehands46
    Its true we are basti patans are technically mahajirs. we had to migrate from jalander.

    his niazi side has afghan heritage. as niazis miagrated from afghanistan.
    does his grand grand parents have any roots with Iran as well ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Invictus
    Whats the point of having a debate that goes all over the place.
    I just hate the fact that Imran would say something so patronizing. Its not Imran vs. Mohajirs its not even Imran vs. MQM its basically Imran vs. Altaf. So whats the point of saying you are a Mohajir from your mother's side at this point in time. So that people would connect with you? Even if you are what does that have to do with anything?
    agreed! The reason I mentioned about this was to stress on the point that mahajirs don't consider Imran as an external force but to understand that he is one of them and he is fighting for their rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asim2Good
    does his grand grand parents have any roots with Iran as well ?
    we have turkish blood if we look back. but more immediately we are from jalandhar and the niazis have direct afghani blood i believe meaning 200 year back. Thats all i remember from various conversations.


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    Imran's background I suppose in a way is quite similar to my family. We are pathans who lived in jullundhur prior to partition. Although I haven't watched the clip I imagine the point he is making is that us East Punjabis don't consider ourselves as a separate group such as mohajir but as Pakistani. East Punjabies probably bore the brunt of the Violence but on the whole still believe that Pakistan was worth the fight.Having said that East Punjabies, Pathans etc whatever do have a history in Pakistan whereas people from Gujarat or Bihar probably do not. Therefore it is probably a simplistic argument at the same time.


    Bad Boys, Bad Boys....What you gonna do when the ICC come for you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amoeba
    Imran's background I suppose in a way is quite similar to my family. We are pathans who lived in jullundhur prior to partition. Although I haven't watched the clip I imagine the point he is making is that us East Punjabis don't consider ourselves as a separate group such as mohajir but as Pakistani. East Punjabies probably bore the brunt of the Violence but on the whole still believe that Pakistan was worth the fight.Having said that East Punjabies, Pathans etc whatever do have a history in Pakistan whereas people from Gujarat or Bihar probably do not. Therefore it is probably a simplistic argument at the same time.
    which basti are you from? we might be distant relative.


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    Hasan

    Claims which they have denied!

    Anyway if you want to play the link game than here are a few more countries who are terrorists

    USA -->Musharraf -->MMA--->Taliban
    UK-->USA-->see above
    France-->UK --> see above

    you claimed that MMA is a terrorist organisation and all you have provided are alleged MMA activists rioting, a man who could have joined MMA being a terrorist and MMA having links to the taliban,

    By equating the MMA with the MQM you do yourself no favours.


    []Wazeeri aka Shaheed Benazir Bhutto Wazeeri[/]

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    I am from basti sheikh.
    Imran's mother is my grandad's(or great grandad's) cousin,


    []Wazeeri aka Shaheed Benazir Bhutto Wazeeri[/]

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    Quote Originally Posted by safehands46
    which basti are you from? we might be distant relative.
    Now that's asking. Will have to find out inshallah from my mother.


    Bad Boys, Bad Boys....What you gonna do when the ICC come for you

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    Quote Originally Posted by safehands46
    we have turkish blood if we look back. but more immediately we are from jalandhar and the niazis have direct afghani blood i believe meaning 200 year back. Thats all i remember from various conversations.
    think u didn't get my point in my 2 posts.
    I DON"T care he is Mohajir from mother side or grand grand parents side. For me he IS Pakistani

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asim2Good
    think u didn't get my point in my 2 posts.
    I DON"T care he is Mohajir from mother side or grand grand parents side. For me he IS Pakistani

    But that is Imran's point as well. We may all have different heritages but we should all see ourselves as Pakistani first.

    That is not necessary a problem with the individual but with the state of Pakistan that it hasn't been all inclusive.


    Bad Boys, Bad Boys....What you gonna do when the ICC come for you

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    Hasan

    Claims which they have denied!

    Anyway if you want to play the link game than here are a few more countries who are terrorists

    USA -->Musharraf -->MMA--->Taliban
    UK-->USA-->see above
    France-->UK --> see above

    you claimed that MMA is a terrorist organisation and all you have provided are alleged MMA activists rioting, a man who could have joined MMA being a terrorist and MMA having links to the taliban,

    By equating the MMA with the MQM you do yourself no favours.
    I really do not care for the MMA as they are a very loose alliance of religions parties, who are only unified by their disapproval of the military dictatorship, but otherwise hate each other.

    Anyway, a number of the parties in the MMA have very close alliances with the terrorist organisations in Pakistan, as well as the Taliban (who are known to have used terror as a central feature of their governance framework). It is important to note that the network of madrassas created by these organisations has been instrumental in the brainwashing and recruitment of the vast majority of the foot solders who have carried out the atrocities in Pakistan. The sectarian and religions hatred which is a defining feature of the Pakistani society finds its origins in lessons learnt in the madrassas, and therefore these Mullahs are directly responsible for the terrorism they have help to create in Pakistan.

    A good analogy would be a man who trains a mad dog to attack people. When that dog attacks an innocent passer-by the responsibility for this crime does not lie with the dog but with the owner. The mullah and their hate filled madrassas have created a whole army of mad dogs, who run around our nation killing innocent people. The government and the ISI are equally to blame as they wanted to use these mad dogs to further their foreign policy objectives in Kashmir and Afghanistan. They did not care for the price that innocent Pakistan people have to pay for these immoral policy.

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    Hasan

    How about we back up our claims?
    Some people in the party, number in the party...etc are just not good enough,.


    []Wazeeri aka Shaheed Benazir Bhutto Wazeeri[/]

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    This link should also help you connect the dots which links some of the MMA parties to the terrorists.

    http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...3-8-2005_pg1_8

    Hope this helps

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    Quote Originally Posted by Invictus
    Whats the point of having a debate that goes all over the place.
    I just hate the fact that Imran would say something so patronizing. Its not Imran vs. Mohajirs its not even Imran vs. MQM its basically Imran vs. Altaf. So whats the point of saying you are a Mohajir from your mother's side at this point in time. So that people would connect with you? Even if you are what does that have to do with anything?
    oh come on yaar Invictus. you know better than that.

    all Imran is saying that he's being accused of being biased against mohajirs. but he is part mohajir himself. so, how can he be anti-himself? that is not playing the ethnicity connection card. he is just stating facts to set the record straight.

    if anything what should be more offensive is MQM playing the mohajir card. Imran has only opposed the terrorist Altaf and his fascist party - not mohajirs. but MQM is saying that Imran is against mohajirs by virtue of his stance on the May 12th massacre. mohajirs should be offended by that.

    I think the time's come that educated mohajirs get over the past injustices and stop letting this terrorist, fascist "party" hijack their cause. this is their country too. if they're being suppressed, they should fight for their rights but supporting the MQM is about the worst way to fight for their rights.

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    FYI, Wasim Akram's family also hails from Amristar, Punjab.

    What's the big deal, lots of Indians/Pakistanis crossed the border during partition.

    Musharaf hails from Delhi, while Manmohan Singh hails from WEst Punjab
    Last edited by cosine; 22nd June 2007 at 23:08.

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    Invictus

    The point of Imran stating that was to ensure the people of Karachi's "mohajir" community that his fight isn't against them.


    []Wazeeri aka Shaheed Benazir Bhutto Wazeeri[/]

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    This link should also help you connect the dots which links some of the MMA parties to the terrorists.

    http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/defaul...13-8-2005_pg1_8

    Hope this helps

    Read the link you posted mate.
    SSP is targeting MMA seats. As in getting into direct conflict with them.
    It says nothing about the MMA and SSP being the same organisation as you earlier claim infact it clearly rejects that notion.

    Why don't you quit while you are ahead,

    Stop posting random threads about nothing. The UN link just says that there are connections between the Taliban and the JUI (not MMA), well that holds true for PPP, PML-N, PML-Q and the military as well.
    Last edited by Wazeeri; 23rd June 2007 at 09:21.


    []Wazeeri aka Shaheed Benazir Bhutto Wazeeri[/]

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    “Most SSP candidates are contesting as candidates of the JUI-S-backed Sharia Panel,” an SSP source said.
    JUI is a member of the MMA, and what you are failing to appreciate is that SSP (which is a terrorist organisation) stem for the same deobandi madrassas. I am sorry that you fail to make the connection between JUI and the terrorist organisation despite the various links that I have provided you. However, what you cannot close your eyes to is the fact that thousands upon thousands of innocent people have lost their lives to sectarian based terrorism, and the breading grounds for these terrorist are the madrasses.

    And therefore I will still say that these mullahs are not better or worse then the MQM based terrorists. They both kill innocent humans to further their political agenda.

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    The Taliban: Exporting Extremism

    By Ahmed Rashid appeared in Foreign Affairs, November/December, 1999

    [Ahmed Rashid has covered the war in Afghanistan for 20 years. He is Pakistan, Afghanistan and Central Asia Correspondent for the Far Eastern Economic Review and author of The Resurgence of Central Asia: Islam or Nationalism? and the forthcoming Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil, and Fundamentalism in Central Asia.]

    Rewriting the Rules of the Great Game

    "Talibanization," the destabilizing export of Afghan-style radical Islam, may be a new term in the American political lexicon. But in Central and South Asia, where the repercussion of the superstrict Taliban rule of Afghanistan have been widely felt, the word has become all too familiar. As political fragmentation, economic meltdown, ethnic and sectarian warfare, and Islamic fundamentalism tighten their grip on Pakistan and much of the rest of the region, the dangerous behavior of Afghanistan's new leaders is no longer a local affair.

    More and more, chaos in Afghanistan is seeping through its porous borders. The ongoing civil war has polarized the region, with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia backing the Taliban regime while Iran, Russia, India, and four former Soviet Central Asian republics support the opposition Northern Alliance. The confrontation is producing enormous economic disruption throughout the area, as the Afghan warlords' dependence on smuggling and drug trafficking grows insatiable.

    Into the political vacuum left by 20 years of war and the collapse of stable government has marched a new generation of violent fundamentalists, nurtured and inspired by the Taliban's unique Islamist model. Thousands of foreign radicals now fighting alongside the Taliban in Afghanistan are determined to someday overthrow their own regimes and carry out Taliban-style Islamist revolutions in their homelands. For example, the Chechnya-based militants who took over parts of Dagestan in July included in their ranks Arabs, Afghans, and Pakistanis, most of whom had fought in Afghanistan. So had the 800 Uzbek and Tajik gunmen who took over parts of southern Kyrgyzstan in August. The state breakdown in Afghanistan offers militants from Pakistan, Iran, the Central Asian republics, and China's predominantly Muslim Xinjiang province a tempting package deal: sanctuary and financial support through smuggling.

    Meanwhile, Washington's sole response so far has been its single-minded obsession with bringing to justice the Saudi-born terrorist Osama bin Laden-hardly a comprehensive policy for dealing with this increasingly volatile part of the world.

    For Western nations to presume that they can safely exploit the vast oil and gas riches of Central Asia without first helping bring peace to Afghanistan is unrealistic to the extreme. A new Great Game is being played in the region. At stake, however, are no longer questions of mere political influence or who gets to build oil and gas pipelines where. These issues will be irrelevant unless the West figures out how to stop the spreading conflagration in Afghanistan-and fast.

    The Students Who Came in From The Cold

    For Afghanistan to be at the center of both dialogue and conflict between civilizations is nothing new. The country's location at the crossroads between Iran, Central Asia, the Arabian Sea, and India has given its mountain passes a strategic significance for centuries. At certain times, Afghanistan has acted as a buffer between competing empires and ideologies, at others it has served as a corridor through which armies marched. Repeated efforts to colonize the country, most recently by the British and the Soviets, have failed and in the process given the Afghans a fierce sense of independence and pride.

    The United States, patron of the Afghan rebellion against the Soviet invaders, walked away after the Soviet Union withdrew its last troops in 1989. The Afghans, once on the frontline of the Cold War, were left with a devastated country. One million had died during the ten-year occupation. But only three years later, when Kabul fell to the mujahideen who had fought off the Soviets, gory civil war again gripped the country, fueled by neighboring countries trying to carve out areas of influence. The civil war has pitted the majority Pushtun population in the south and east against the ethnic minorities of the north Tajik, Uzbek, Hazara, and Turkmen.

    The predominantly Pushtun Taliban emerged in late 1994 as a Messianic movement made up of taliban (literally, students) from Islamic madrasahs (seminaries) who were living as refugees in Pakistan. They vowed to bring peace to Afghanistan, establish law and order, disarm the population, and impose sharia (Islamic law). Welcomed by a war-weary Pushtun population, the Taliban were at first remarkably successful and popular. Until they captured Kabul in 1996 they expressed no desire to rule the country. But ever since then - abetted by their Pakistani and Saudi backers and inspired by ideological mentors such as bin Laden - the Taliban have committed themselves to conquering the entire country and more.

    In 1998, the Taliban overran much of northern Afghanistan, pushing the Northern Alliance (made up of non-Pushtun minorities) into a thin sliver of territory in the northeast. This victory further polarized the region, as Iran threatened to invade and accused Pakistan of supporting the Taliban.

    The nature of the Taliban - who they are and what they are represent - has been difficult for outsiders to understand because of the excessive secrecy that surrounds their leaders and political structure. The Taliban do not issue policy statements or hold regular press conferences. There is no Taliban manifesto. Because of the ban on photography and television, Afghans do not even know what their new leaders look like. The one-eyed Taliban religious leader, Mullah Muhammad Umar, does not meet with non-Muslims and so remains a mystery.

    Historically, Afghanistan was a deeply conservative Muslim country where sharia, as interpreted by Afghan tribal custom, prevailed for centuries. But the Islam traditionally practiced in Afghanistan was also immensely tolerant-of other Muslim sects, other religions, and different lifestyles. Until 1992, Hindus, Sikhs, and Jews all played a significant role in the country's bazaar economy and sectarianism was not an issue.

    Since 1992, however, the bloody civil war has destroyed this tolerance, setting sects and ethnic groups against one another in a way formerly unimaginable. The once-unifying factor of Islam has become a lethal weapon in the hands of extremists and a force for division and fragmentation.

    Ninety percent of Afghans are Sunni Muslims, although Shiites predominance among the Hazaras and some Tajik clans settled in central Afghanistan. Traditional Islam in Afghanistan believed in minimum government with as little state interference as possible. Another key factor contributing to Afghan tolerance was the enormous popularity of Sufism, a mystical and undogmatic branch of Islam.

    Before the Taliban arrived, none of Islam's extreme orthodox sects-such as the conservative Wahhabis from Saudi Arabia-had ever found a home in Afghanistan. But the Taliban emerged at a critical juncture, as the country was fractured by warlords, Pushtun hegemony dissipated, and an ideological vacuum grew within the Islamist movement. The Taliban began as reformers, following a well-worn tradition in Muslim history based on the familiar notion of jihad-holy war against infidels. Jihad, however, does not sanction the killing of fellow Muslims on the basis of ethnicity or sect. Yet the Taliban has used it to do just that. This appalls non-Pushtuns who accuse the Taliban of using jihad as cover to exterminate them.

    The Taliban's anomalous interpretation of Islam emerged from an extreme and perverse interpretation of Deobandism, preached by Pakistani mullahs (clerics) in Afghan refugee camps. Deobandism, a branch of Sunni Islam, arose in British India as a reform movement that aimed to regenerate Muslim society as it struggled to live within the confines of a colonized state. The Deobandis sought to harmonize classical Islamic texts with current realities-an aim the Taliban has ignored.

    Early on, a few Deobandi madrasahs were established in Afghanistan, but they were not hugely popular. They were more successful in Pakistan, however. Pakistani Deobandis set up a political party, the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Islam (JUI), with a strong anti-American stance.

    During the war against the Soviets, the few Deobandi Afghan groups that then existed were ignored. Across the border, however, the JUI used the war to set up hundreds of madrasahs in Pakistan's Pushtun belt, offering Afghan refugees and young Pakistanis free education, food, shelter, and military training. These Deobandi madrasahs, however, were run by barely literate mullahs untutored in the original reformist Deobandi agenda. Saudi funds and scholarships brought them closer to ultraconservative Wahhabism.

    Still, the JUI remained politically isolated until Pakistan's 1993 elections, when it allied itself with the victorious Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, becoming a part of her ruling coalition. For the first time the JUI gained access to the corridors of power, establishing close links with the army, the Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI) and the Interior Ministry. In 1996 the Taliban handed control of training camps in Afghanistan over to JUI factions, thus enhancing their image among the new generation of Pakistani and Arab militants who studied there.

    The JUI and its many breakaway factions have become the main recruiters of Pakistani and foreign students to fight for the Taliban. Between 1994 and 1999, an estimated 80, 000 to 100, 000 Pakistanis trained and fought in Afghanistan. These battle-hardened militants now gravely threaten Pakistan's own stability, and the support the Taliban receives from Pakistan's Deobandi network, quite separate from military supplies it gets from the government, ensures even greater Taliban penetration into Pakistani society.

    The joint venture between the Taliban and the JUI, funded by Saudi Wahhabis and supported by the Pakistani ISI, has become an ever-expanding enterprise, seeking new markets in Central Asia and beyond. The Taliban may have debased Deobandi traditions-but in doing so they have promoted a new, radical model for Islamist revolution. Unlike their predecessors, the Taliban have little knowledge of Islamic and Afghan history, of sharia or the Quran. Their exposure to the radical Islamic debate around the world is minimal; indeed, they are so rigid in their beliefs that they admit no discussion.

    The Next To Fall: Pakistan and Kashmir

    The Taliban's purist ideology and the Pakistani recruits it has nurtured have had immense cross-border repercussions in Pakistan. An already fragile nation in the midst of an identity crisis, economic meltdown, ethnic and sectarian division, and suffering under a rapacious ruling elite unable to provide good governance, Pakistan could easily be submerged by a new Islamist wave led not by established, more mature Islamist parties but by neo-Taliban groups.

    By 1998, such neo-Taliban parties had become a major influence in the Pakistani provinces of Baluchistan and the North West Frontier Province. In those regions, they had begun banning television and videos, imposing sharia punishments such as stoning and amputation, assassinating Pakistani Shiites, and forcing women to adopt the restrictive Taliban dress code. Their influence is now starting to creep outside the Pushtun belt to Punjab and Sind. Of the 6,000-8,000 militants who joined the Taliban for their July 1999 offensive against the Northern Alliance, the majority were, for the first time, not Pushtuns but Punjabis. The Pakistani government's support for the Taliban is thus coming back to haunt it, even as Pakistan's leaders remain oblivious of the danger and continue their support.

    The contradictions in Pakistan's Afghan policy have become even more acute due to the support given to the Taliban by two extremist JUI splinter groups, the Sipah-Sahaba Pakistan and the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi. Both groups have killed hundreds of Pakistani Shiites and allegedly twice tried to assassinate Prime Minister Muhammad Nawaz. Sharif. When Sharif responded with a crackdown against them in Punjab, their leaders took refuge in Kabul and came under Taliban protection-the same Taliban still backed by Islamabad.

    Pakistan believes that a Taliban-controlled Afghanistan will be an ally and give its army strategic depth in its ongoing conflict with India. In particular, Islamabad considers support for the Taliban necessary because of its dispute with India over Kashmir. The Taliban, Deobandi groups in Pakistan, and bin Laden's terrorist network all give major support to Kashmir insurgents resisting New Delhi's control of Indian Kashmir. Islamabad therefore cannot drop its support for them without affecting the Kashmir cause it espouses.

    Yet the increasing Islamicization of the Kashmiri struggle has undermined both the Kashmiri's own demand for self-determination from India and Pakistan's bid to win international mediation of the dispute. The Kashmiri independence movement is losing world sympathy as more and more Pakistani and Arab recruits join the fight and turn it into a Taliban jihad. The longer this goes on, the less chance there will be that the territorial dispute will ever be peacefully resolved. Day by day, the danger grows for Pakistan, Kashmir, and India itself.

    Dominoes: Central Asia, Iran, and China

    With their porous borders, weak security apparatuses, and crisis-torn economies, the five former Soviet Central Asian republics-Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan have every reason to fear the turmoil emanating from Afghanistan. The threats include the flow of drugs and weapons and a possible flood of refugees if the Northern Alliance is defeated.

    But Central Asia's leaders, who have not changed since the Soviet era, are growing increasingly authoritarian. Their rigged elections and restrictions on political parties have undermined democratic alternatives, leaving underground Islamist movements as the only political opposition. Widespread poverty and unemployment provide a fertile recruiting base for young militants.

    During the recent Afghan civil war, the newly independent Central Asian states supported their ethnic kin in northern Afghanistan, who provided a buffer against the spread of Pushtun fundamentalism. That buffer has now been virtually eliminated. The Taliban control Afghan territory bordering Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, and Tajikistan. Yet apart from Turkmenistan, which has declared itself neutral in the Afghan conflict, these states continue to support the weakened Northern Alliance. Ahmad Shah Masud, the alliance's ethnic Tajik military commander, keeps a major resupply base in southern Tajikistan, where he receives arms from Russia and Iran.

    Meanwhile, earlier this year, Tahir Yuldashev, the leader of the Islamic Movement of Uzbeldstan (IMU), fled to Afghanistan. Yuldashev is allegedly one of the masterminds behind the assassination attempt against Uzbek President Islam A. Karimov in February, when six bombs in Tashkent killed 16 people and wounded 128. In May, the Taliban allowed Yuldashev to set up a military training camp in northern Afghanistan, just a few miles from the border. Multiple sources in the region say he is training several hundred Islamist militants from Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and Kyrgyzstan, as well as Uighurs from Xinjiang province in China.

    Taliban officials deny helping the IMU. Yet in June, the Taliban rejected a request to extradite Yuldashev to Uzbekistan. And in late August, Juma Namangani, another IMU leader entered southern Kyrgyzstan with some 800 militants, seized villages and hostages, and threatened to invade Uzbekistan. For Central Asians, the war in Afghanistan is now truly coming home.

    Although the IMU are not Deobandis, they are influenced by Wahhabism and have tried to impose the Taliban code in their areas of influence. Although Uzbeks have historically been suspicious of the Pushtuns, the Taliban offer the IMU a sanctuary from Karimov's crackdown, weapons, and the means to finance themselves through the drug trade.

    Iran is also threatened by the Taliban. The Shiite regime in Tehran has long opposed Pushtun fundamentalism because it is backed by a regional rival-Pakistan-and because it is Sunni-dominated. Moreover, the Taliban are virulently and violently anti-Shiite. During the Afghan war against the Soviets, the Iranians backed the Shiite Hazaras. They have now extended military support to all non-Pushtun groups in the Northern Alliance. Matters came to a head in late 1998, when the Taliban executed 11 Iranian diplomats in Mazar-i-Sharif. Iran threatened it to invade Afghanistan, and war was narrowly avoided.

    The Taliban now harbor various Iranian dissidents. They have given sanctuary to the small Ahl-e-Sunnah Wal Jamaat, made up of Sunni Iranians opposed to the Tehran regime. And leaders of the principal Iranian opposition group, the Iraq-based Mujahideen-e-Khalq, frequently visit Kandahar and have asked the Taliban for an operational base.

    China, too, has been affected by the ascendance of the Taliban. Beijing shunned the civil war in Afghanistan until February 1999, when it first made overtures to the Taliban in an attempt to stem the tide of Afghan heroin flooding Xinjiang. The heroin was helping fund Islamist nationalist opposition to Beijing among the Uighurs and other Muslim ethnic groups. Uighur militants have trained and fought with the Afghan mujahideen since 1986, and Chinese officials say the arms and explosives the rebels have used against Chinese security forces come from Afghanistan. Taliban officials have assured China that they are not harboring fugitive Uighurs, but some Uighur militants are known to be involved with Yuldashev and with bin Laden-if not the Taliban itself.

    The Taliban's reasons for this regional adventurism are a mixture of naiveté, frustration, and ideology. At one level, the Taliban insist that Afghan tribe tradition obliges them to give sanctuary to guests such as the Uighur rebels or bin Laden. But the Taliban are also furious with Iran and Uzbekistan for their military support of the Northern Alliance. And Kabul is deeply frustrated with its rejection by the international community and the Muslim world, which has refused to recognize the Taliban government. By harboring dissidents, Afghanistan gets its revenge.

    "Our prestige is spreading across the region because we have truly implemented Islam, and this makes the Americans and some neighbors very nervous," says Afghan Information Minister Amir Khan Muttaqi. That is putting it lightly. As militants from around the world flock to it for sanctuary, Kabul only increases its support for the wave of Talibanization it hopes to unleash on the region and beyond

    Blowback

    With the active encouragement of the CIA and Pakistan's ISI, who wanted to turn the Afghan jihad into a global war waged by all Muslim states against the Soviet Union, some 35,000 Muslim radicals from 40 Islamic countries joined Afghanistan fight between 1982-1992. Tens of thousands more came to study in Pakistani madrasahs. Eventually more than 100,000 foreign Muslim radicals were directly influenced by the Afghan jihad.

    The camps in Pakistan and Afghanistan where they trained became virtual universities for promoting pan-Islamic radicalism in Algeria, Egypt, Yemen, Sudan, Jordan, the Philippines, and Bangladesh. Americans woke up to the danger only in 1993, when Afghan-trained Arab militants blew up the World Trade Center in New York, killing six people and injuring 1,000. The bombers believed that, just as Afghanistan had defeated one superpower - the Soviet Union - they would defeat a second.

    One of the main recruiters of Arab militants for the Afghan jihad was bin Laden. As the richest and highest-ranking Saudi to participate in the struggle, he was heavily patronized by the ISI and Saudi intelligence. Bin Laden left Afghanistan in 1990 but returned in May 1996. Soon he turned on his former patrons and issued his first "Declaration of Jihad" against the Saudi royal family and the Americans, whom he accused of occupying his homeland.

    Striking up a friendship with Umar, the Taliban chief, bin Laden moved to Umar's base in Kandahar in early 1997, Bin Laden reunited and rearmed the Arab militants still remaining in Afghanistan after the war against the Soviets, creating the "055" brigade. The Taliban had no contact with Arab Afghans or pan-Islamic ideology until then. But Umar was quickly influenced by his new friend and became increasingly various in his attacks on Americans, the United Nations, and the Saudis and other pro-Western Muslim regimes. Recent Taliban statements reflect a bin Laden style outrage, defiance, and pan-Islamism that the Taliban had never used before his arrival.

    Kenya and Tanzania, the United States accused bin Laden of financing terrorist camps in Somalia, Egypt, Sudan, Yemen, Egypt, and Afghanistan. A few days later, America fired cruise missiles at bin Laden's camps in eastern Afghanistan, killing nearly 20 militants but leaving his network unharmed. Washington demanded bin Laden's extradition; the Taliban refused to comply.

    Bin Laden's notoriety has created major problems for Pakistan and Saudi Arabia-two key American allies in the region who have recognized the Taliban government. Pakistan is reluctant to help the United States capture bin Laden; the Saudi terrorist gives valuable help to the Kashmiris and the JUI would protest if Islamabad was seen to do Washington's bidding. Already in July the JUI issued death threats to Americans in Pakistan, to be carried out if bin Laden is extradited to the United States.

    The Saudi dilemma is even worse. Saudi Arabia has helped finance Taliban and has provided crucial military support for their offensives. But this all ended after the U.S. embassy bombings in Africa. The Saudis suspended diplomatic relations with the Taliban and ostensibly ceased all aid, although they did not withdraw diplomatic recognition and private donations continue to flow. Like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia would like to leave bin Laden in Afghanistan. His arrest and trial in the United States could be highly embarrassing, exposing his continuing relationship with sympathetic members of the ruling elites and intelligence services of both countries.

    Flower Power

    Around Kandahar, poppy fields stretch as far as the horizon. In Herat, the Taliban have set up model farms where farmers learn the best methods of heroin cultivation. The U.N. Drug Control Program reports that Afghanistan produced 4,600 metric tons of opium in 1999-twice as much as in the previous year. Afghanistan now produces three times more opium than the rest of the world put together. Ninety-six percent of it is cultivated in Taliban-controlled areas, making the Taliban the largest heroin producer in the world.

    The Taliban collect a 20 percent tax from opium dealers and transporters-money that goes straight to the Taliban war chest. The Northern Alliance imposes a similar tax on opium shipments crossing into Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Drug dealers operate the only banking system in the country-offering farmers credit in advance of their poppy crop. This criminalized economy has weakened states throughout the region.

    Whereas Afghan opium was exported to the West through Pakistan in 1980, there are now multiple export routes through Iran, the Persian Gulf states, and Central Asia. As these routes expand, so do the beneficiaries. U.S. officials claim that, with most of his bank accounts frozen, bin Laden now finances his operations through opium. Chinese officials report that drug smuggling from Afghanistan is similarly funding the Uighur opposition. Uzbekistan's government has drawn a direct drug-smuggling link between Afghanistan and the Ferghana Valley, where the IMU is based. The civil war in Tajikistan was partly fueled by Afghan drugs, and Pakistan's economy has been crippled by them. Furthermore, according to governments in the region, heroin addiction is growing: there are now five million addicts in Pakistan, three million in Iran, and one million in China, largely in Xinjiang.

    Meanwhile, the smuggling of consumer goods, fuel, and foodstuffs through Afghanistan is wreaking further havoc. The contraband trade developed in the 1950s, when Pakistan granted landlocked Afghanistan the right to import duty-free goods through the port of Karachi under the Afghan Transit Trade Agreement (ATTA). Many of these imported goods were resold in Pakistani bazaars, but with the opening of Central Asia and Iran and the arrival of the Taliban in 1994, this trade has expanded enormously.

    Today Afghan and Pakistani truckers smuggle goods across a huge swath of territory that includes Russia, the Caucasus, Central Asia, Iran, and Pakistan. ATTA was worth only $50 million in the 1980s, but it increased to $128 million in 1992-93 and then jumped to $266 million in 1994-95 - the first year of Taliban conquests. A 1999 World Bank study estimates that the smuggling trade between Pakistan and Afghanistan alone amounted to $2.5 billion in 1997, equivalent to more than half of Afghanistan's estimated GDP. Add to that the smuggling to and from the rest of the region and the total rises to $5 billion.

    This smuggling has crippled local industry in the affected states; local factories cannot compete with smuggled, foreign-made, duty-free consumer goods. The smuggling also creates huge losses in customs revenue and sales taxes. According to Pakistan's Central Board of Revenue, Pakistan's losses in 1998 amounted to 30 percent of the government's total revenues of $6 billion. The Taliban tax on the smuggling trade was its second-largest source of income after drugs.

    New transport and smuggling mafias have developed in Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and Iran. They are ignored by their governments, due to a web of corruption that benefits everyone from border guards to cabinet ministers. Not surprisingly, all these transport mafias are keen supporters and major founders of the Taliban. And this illegal economy is only expanding, since Afghanistan's formal one remains nonexistent. The Afghan infrastructure is devastated, health care and education are virtually absent, and abject poverty is rampant. Afghanistan today has 6 working factories, compared to 220 in 1979. Fighting and smuggling offer the only employment.

    And The West Sleeps On

    After providing billions of dollars' worth of arms and ammunition to the mujahideen, the United States abandoned Afghanistan once Soviet troops withdrew. America gave its allies in the region, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, a free hand to direct the ensuing Afghan civil war.

    After the end of the Cold War, Washington never developed a new strategic framework for the area. The United States dealt with issues as they came up in a haphazard, piecemeal fashion, pursuing constantly changing single-issue agendas that were driven more by domestic American politics than the goal of ending the civil war. Afghanistan's neighbors took note of U.S. reluctance to get involved and stepped up arms supplies to their Afghan proxies.

    What the United States needed and still needs to do is to put serious pressure on neighboring states to halt the supply of arms into Afghanistan-beginning with local U.S. allies such as Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Uzbekistan. That may convince Iran and Russia to do the same. If the flow of weapons ceases and drug exports are curtailed by united regional resolve, the Afghan warlords will see their main sources of support dry up and may then be forced to negotiate an end to the war.

    This is the track that the U.N. mediator for Afghanistan, Lakhdar Brahimi, has pursued for the past two years. His lack of success has been directly related to the lack of Western pressure on neighboring states to end their interference. Most Afghan civilians still believe that Americans hold the key to ending foreign interference. Despite Washington's record, there is still enormous goodwill for America among ordinary Afghans. But until the United States demonstrates that it has the determination to mobilize an international effort for ending outside interference, Afghanistan's chaos will only spread. Terrorism will develop new adherents there. The drug trade will expand. These are costs that no country not Afghanistan, the United States, its allies, China, or Iran - can hope to bear.

  58. #58
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    This should help you with the historical context within which the current network of deobandi terrorist organisations emerged. The same deobandi organisations which are represented in the MMA.

    http://www.ceri-sciencespo.com/archi...o00/artmaz.pdf

  59. #59
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    Hasan

    Two people being Deobandi isn't enough of a proof. Deobandis have been around for centuries in Pakistan, India and Bangladesh. "These mullahs" does not equal MMA.

    You have claimed that MMA is a terrorist organisation, please provide backup for that.
    I know very well what the SSP, Taliban(who cannot be labelled a terrorist organisation)...etc have done. I want to know what the MMA have done themselves.


    []Wazeeri aka Shaheed Benazir Bhutto Wazeeri[/]

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar
    oh come on yaar Invictus. you know better than that.

    all Imran is saying that he's being accused of being biased against mohajirs. but he is part mohajir himself. so, how can he be anti-himself? that is not playing the ethnicity connection card. he is just stating facts to set the record straight.

    if anything what should be more offensive is MQM playing the mohajir card. Imran has only opposed the terrorist Altaf and his fascist party - not mohajirs. but MQM is saying that Imran is against mohajirs by virtue of his stance on the May 12th massacre. mohajirs should be offended by that.

    I think the time's come that educated mohajirs get over the past injustices and stop letting this terrorist, fascist "party" hijack their cause. this is their country too. if they're being suppressed, they should fight for their rights but supporting the MQM is about the worst way to fight for their rights.
    Yaar then fight on principles. Who cares what MQM says, Imran apprently has a principle for which he is fighting. Saying things like that just dilutes his stand.
    Thats like me saying, Reverend Al Sharpton is a joke of a politician and he is taking african american political scene down with him, oh and I am 1/8 black from my mother's side".
    My statement and apparently me being black has nothing to do with each other. The only reason I would say it would be to stop people from calling me a racist. Although me being 1/8 black does not mean I am not a racist. at all. So why am I scared of being called a racist? Am I racist? Not really I dont think so, I haven't done anything racist so why should I stoop to that level.
    Honestly speaking MQM does not have the same clout that it used to. Last election they lost couple of seats in Karachi. Thats after being backed by the establishment and doing their own bullying. That was un-heard of in the 90's. I mean MQM used to decide a day before election to run and sweep Karachi. It would be dishonest of me to say that they dont have any sway in Karachi politics, they do.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wazeeri
    Invictus

    The point of Imran stating that was to ensure the people of Karachi's "mohajir" community that his fight isn't against them.
    Oh yaar Imran knows as well as anyone that this is just a campaign to get his name known in Karachi. If you notice the results of last two elections MQM has been steadily loosing ground. Karachi is a big chunk of vote bank in Sindh and even in the NA. I believe some of Imran's advisors thought that if Imran can get some votes from Karachi that would give him and his party some solid vote bank.
    Everyone knows, in Karachi or outside of it, what MQM does or stand for. Me and you read about it in the news, people in Karachi deal with them day in and day out. They are aching for some other alternative. This is Imran's way of saying if you are sick of MQM vote for me. Thats all this is man.

  62. #62
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    Invictus

    I think you are getting a bit too cynical. There has been a backlash from the "Muhajir" community because of Imran's attack on Altaf. It is necessary to explain to them that the fight is against the MQM and not a community.


    []Wazeeri aka Shaheed Benazir Bhutto Wazeeri[/]

  63. #63
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    Bahi I am from Karachi its in my blood to be cynical. Yaar there is what the "news" media says and then there is the reality on the streets. I have allot of family in back home specially in Karachi, cousins and friends with-in my age group. Basically guys who spend allot of time outside at work, doing business and dealing with people. The fact of the matter is no one cares about this whole issue and there is no ill-feelings towards Imran from people in Karachi.
    What happened on May 12th has happened in Karachi way too many times before. It will happen again way too many times again. People know that Imran is trying to represent people who dont really like MQM and thus getting a vote bank in Karachi. Presently its a minority vote bank but its there for the taking. Tell you what in six months time we will all forget the whole case thing completely.

  64. #64
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    Invictus

    The only relevant and reliable thing you can take from those sources is the fact that people don't have ill feelings towards Imran Khan. The rest is an opinion which everyone can form for themselves.

    I think Imran must have thought that he is being resented by the Muhajjir community, I doubt the intentions are as far thought out as winning a minority support in Karachi.


    []Wazeeri aka Shaheed Benazir Bhutto Wazeeri[/]


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