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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Stats aren't everything.
    Except they are more tangible than people who say their eyes, which are the most subjective form of observation, tell more of the story.

    Runs are cricket, pretty is for the runway.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelo green View Post
    Except they are more tangible than people who say their eyes, which are the most subjective form of observation, tell more of the story.

    Runs are cricket, pretty is for the runway.
    Do you think Rayudu is better than Shafiq?

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Do you think Rayudu is better than Shafiq?
    In ODI's yes...tests no. Though Rayudu never played tests his first class record is decent.
    Rayudu also plays for Mumbai Indians, so used to play with big international stars. So he is used to handle the crowd pressure, big match scenarios better.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Do you think Rayudu is better than Shafiq?
    Do I think Rayadu in ten years vs Shafiq in ten years will have more runs on the board with a better strike rate and more centuries?

    If we talk of what has happened so far and apply it, you would be a fool to think otherwise.

    Better is such an awful term. What is better? Prettier when they hit a cover drive? No better is the guy who can put runs on the damned board with a SR to boot. Shafiq has done MILD at best since his come back in ODI's, and to say he has done good is an overrating of ridiculous proportions. He has one 50 at an awful SR, and a 29 in ODIs. In the tests he did well.

    Again I am not saying don't give him a run in ODIs, he has the talent for it, but 2 matches won't make me change my stance. I need to see 5-10 ODIs of that nature where he gets a century, where he wins at least one match, consistently has an average above 35 with an SR in the 80s before I will say he is someone who will produce for Pakistan in the future.

    Production is runs, not the guy who looks prettier getting 10, but the guy who can get 50 off of 60 balls, whether it be pretty or ugly on a consistent basis.

    Nothing you can or will say empirically can defeat that. Amin is not and will never be a better player and Fawad just because Fawad plays in an unorthodox manor. Unorthodox, just in your books, is a sign of worse than someone who is orthodox, simply because you say it, but again runs on the board defeat everything else. All you can tell me is your eyes are better than mine. My eyes tell me that Fawad gets you 50s and centuries at a decent clip, whereas Amin gets you nothing at no clip.

  5. #165
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    All that is true, but Rayudu hasn't shown anything to suggest he's better. Shafiq's performance vs SA and even AUS in Test cricket holds a lot of water and it hasn't got anything to do with Umar Amin or Fawad Alam.

    He played well today but it isn't going to define his career.

    As far Fawad is concerned, I think his one dimensional is going to hamper him in the long run. He has no plan B, cut down his singles and he cannot do anything.

    The Australian series cannot be a one off. They really worked him out and it wasn't a case of him getting out cheaply or not scoring runs. He was simply defeated.

  6. #166
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    Not convinced about his ability.


    aaj mujh ko bahut burā kah kar
    aap ne naam to liyā merā
    -----Jaun Eliya

  7. #167
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    Rayudu is nothing! I can name 10 batsmen from our domestic cricket who are better than rayudu. Even Unmukt Chand can hit centuries like this for fun against this attack in India. But heartening to see rayudu is showing application which something that i have never seen from the so called Mr. talented Rohit sharma.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    All that is true, but Rayudu hasn't shown anything to suggest he's better. Shafiq's performance vs SA and even AUS in Test cricket holds a lot of water and it hasn't got anything to do with Umar Amin or Fawad Alam.

    He played well today but it isn't going to define his career.

    As far Fawad is concerned, I think his one dimensional is going to hamper him in the long run. He has no plan B, cut down his singles and he cannot do anything.

    The Australian series cannot be a one off. They really worked him out and it wasn't a case of him getting out cheaply or not scoring runs. He was simply defeated.
    EEEEENNN wrong. Thanks for playing though.

    I am talking about ODI's. Shafiq has done nothing in that front to say he is going to produce anywhere near Rayadus level.

    How the hell can you be such a joke? So in Shafiq's instance, a 50 with an awful SR against Australia can be a career defining innings, but a century by Rayadu to win the match, isn't? Do you even listen to yourself when you speak and think, huh, I make no sense, but I'll spew nonsense thinking that I can throw so many awful points together, that people will be so flustered and not hone in on the pathetic attempts I have at responses.

    Obviously Amin and Fawad are brought for, surprise surprise, context, but instead of focusing on that which you have been so wrong on, you decide to go focus on Alam, and not actually talk about the point. Well done, awful way at deflect though by the way.

    I'm actually dying of laughter.

    You made this point in the span of 150 words, here let us reiterate:

    "Rayadu's century will not be a career defining knock"

    "The Australia series (for Fawad) cannot be a one off"

    Oh so for one player, 3 matches will define his career, even though he actually, when he was younger and actually less of a player he is now, performed in their home ground, as well as in England, and came back this year and did what few players have ever done to bring themselves back on the team. For the other, who has continued to score and scored a match winning knock, that will not define his career, well because you say so? Which one is it? Then of course there is Shafiq whom you are equating test to ODI's or even if you are not you are rating a 50 at an awful SR and a 29 and saying that is career defining. It is pathetically laughable that I even respond to this jargon.

    You never post anything of merit, value or intelligence. You spew things you think are right with no empirical evidence and are wrong 95% of the time and on the off chance you are right, you shove it down everyones throats as though you are nostradamus.

    Like I said, all for Shafiq, but the body of work would easily suggest he is fools gold more so than a sure thing, and it would suggest you are better betting on Fawad than Shafiq because he has shown more overall than inconsistent pretty boy Shafiq. Nothing you can or will say can rebut this.

    We're overrating a 50 and a 29 and shooting down everything that Fawad did since his come back based on 3 matches.

    You are almost always wrong, you will almost always be wrong, and you should never make predictions.

    Don't respond to me, because it is a waste of mine and your time because you will get defeated again and again and fly around the points to grasp on straws for things I neither implied or said to try and shift the conversation elsewhere.

    You were wrong about Sarfraz, Shehzad, Fawad, Yasir Shah, Zulfi Babar, Amin, Shafiq (the only one who you MIGHT be right about, but still not even close to proving it). Do you not get tired of being wrong?

    Here is my favourite thing. When you are wrong, you will shift the conversation to a point you never made, such as Sarfraz's keeping ability and act as though you owned that in the first place.

    Anyone who thinks you are a quality poster, has no idea what quality is. You try to go against the wind, and when wrong, latch onto another point and ignore the original one wholeheartedly and not own up to it. Be a man, admit when you're wrong and be done with it. You are a nuisance with this little shtick you have and an eye roller whenever I read.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Boss View Post
    Dude stop embarrasing yourself
    Because the simple logic is that you won't score 100 every game and your SR would be around 70 odd (which is Rayudu career SR). Simply not good enough for a team which has a big bowling liability already.

    See the larger picture.

    Today's century (good one) has boosted his average in a big way but with low sample set, stats fluctuate badly.
    Last edited by sensible-indian-fan; 7th November 2014 at 00:32.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Because the simple logic is that you won't score 100 every game and your SR would be around 70 odd (which is Rayudu career SR). Simply not good enough for a team which has a big bowling liability already.

    See the larger picture.

    Today's century (good one) has boosted his average in a big way but with low sample set, stats fluctuate badly.
    You're right, but he is (as has been seen so far) still better than Shafiq. It is just India's batting standards are so much greater than other teams and due to the fact their bowling is average, they need that extra boost of 20 runs in relation to most of the other teams due to their weakness.

    A 77 SR isn't bad though and what he lacks in overall talent, he makes up for in sheer ability to stay at the crease. Not saying someone better isn't waiting in the wings but it is definitely enough to continue with him for a couple more series until the WC.

  11. #171
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    One 100 against a depleted attack changes nothing. Even Manoj Tiwary scored a 100 & 60 in the 2 chances that he got. He was dropped . He has done nothing of note in domestic FCs or A tours. IMO Jadhav (highest List A avg in India), Naman Ojha, Manish Pandey, Karun Nair, Uthappa, KL Rahul, Saha even Samson, Ankit Bawne, Chand etc are at par or better than him.
    Last edited by Abhilash93; 7th November 2014 at 00:38.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelo green View Post
    You're right, but he is (as has been seen so far) still better than Shafiq. It is just India's batting standards are so much greater than other teams and due to the fact their bowling is average, they need that extra boost of 20 runs in relation to most of the other teams due to their weakness.

    A 77 SR isn't bad though and what he lacks in overall talent, he makes up for in sheer ability to stay at the crease. Not saying someone better isn't waiting in the wings but it is definitely enough to continue with him for a couple more series until the WC.
    But I didn't even compare him with Shafiq. I haven't seen Shafq enough to say where he stands.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Because the simple logic is that you won't score 100 every game and your SR would be around 70 odd (which is Rayudu career SR). Simply not good enough for a team which has a big bowling liability already.

    See the larger picture.

    Today's century (good one) has boosted his average in a big way but with low sample set, stats fluctuate badly.
    He will be replaced by Sharma in World Cup don't worry. But to say run a ball century is not good enough for India batting standards is **.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Boss View Post
    He will be replaced by Sharma in World Cup don't worry. But to say run a ball century is not good enough for India batting standards is **.
    Run a ball century is GOOD ENOUGH for India.

    When did I say otherwise?

    You misinterpreted my statement completely.

    I said if you have to score a century to have 100 SR, you are a liability.

    Meaning, in every match, you can't score a century and hence you can't make up your SR (towards the end) and for our team, that's a liability.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    But I didn't even compare him with Shafiq. I haven't seen Shafq enough to say where he stands.
    I know you didn't. Certain other people are asserting that fact simply because of well, nothing. A bit of a caveat for other posters.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Run a ball century is GOOD ENOUGH for India.

    When did I say otherwise?

    You misinterpreted my statement completely.

    I said if you have to score a century to have 100 SR, you are a liability.

    Meaning, in every match, you can't score a century and hence you can't make up your SR (towards the end) and for our team, that's a liability.
    No Batsman can score century daily. Rayudu is completely capable to up his run rate if required but today he was sent to no.3 to stabilize the innings after early wicket of Rahane.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Boss View Post
    No Batsman can score century daily. Rayudu is completely capable to up his run rate if required but today he was sent to no.3 to stabilize the innings after early wicket of Rahane.
    And that is precisely why good SR is expected even when you score a 20, 30 or 60 in modern ODI.

    Rayudu is not able to increase his SR in normal cases. That's the issue.

    If he was, for his average, I would be glad to have him in the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by steelo green View Post
    I know you didn't. Certain other people are asserting that fact simply because of well, nothing. A bit of a caveat for other posters.
    Oh I see.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    And that is precisely why good SR is expected even when you score a 20, 30 or 60 in modern ODI.

    Rayudu is not able to increase his SR in normal cases. That's the issue.

    If he was, for his average, I would be glad to have him in the team.



    Oh I see.
    Was your most successful batsman along with Suresh Raina in England LOI's where likes of Kohli struggled. In the T'20 game, Dhoni robbed him strike in the final over otherwise who knows what would have been the result. Was highest scorer against Pakistan in Asia Cup. Limited opportunities he got, he played well. Don't make your perception based on few games. He is a fine young cricketer.

  19. #179
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    Hope this century on one of the flattest wicket in the world doesn't gives him opportunities to play another 50 matches. Please...i would take rohit Sharma ahead of this guy any day..

  20. #180
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    Bullied some runs against Lanka and now we're stuck with him for the foreseeable.

  21. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelo green View Post
    EEEEENNN wrong. Thanks for playing though.

    I am talking about ODI's. Shafiq has done nothing in that front to say he is going to produce anywhere near Rayadus level.

    How the hell can you be such a joke? So in Shafiq's instance, a 50 with an awful SR against Australia can be a career defining innings, but a century by Rayadu to win the match, isn't? Do you even listen to yourself when you speak and think, huh, I make no sense, but I'll spew nonsense thinking that I can throw so many awful points together, that people will be so flustered and not hone in on the pathetic attempts I have at responses.
    You have done a good job to twist my words around and as a future lawyer, I must commend you because you are on the right path. Show me where I said that Shafiq has played a career defining innings in ODI cricket or that half century was Australia is going to define his career. If you cannot do that, then there is a little edit button below the post which might come handy.

    Obviously Amin and Fawad are brought for, surprise surprise, context, but instead of focusing on that which you have been so wrong on, you decide to go focus on Alam, and not actually talk about the point. Well done, awful way at deflect though by the way.

    I'm actually dying of laughter.
    Players have bad series and Amin hasn't been productive so far, but the way Fawad's wings were clipped by Australia was definitely eye opening. The irony is that you have completely missed the context in which he was worked out by Australia, it wasn't just a matter of him not scoring runs.

    He didn't get out to good deliveries, he didn't play poor shots, he didn't show lack of focus etc etc etc, he was completely strangled and what Australia did with him is a great template for other teams to work on. How many batsmen will end up not out in an ODI innings at the death and still have a SR of 50? Provide me some examples.

    Of course you can say that it was a one off and he's going to come back from it, but if other teams keep doing to him what Australia did, he will not last.

    You are a big believer in the theory that players get better with age so it shouldn't be news to you that a 29 year old Fawad who is extremely one dimensional is not going to change him game at this stage of his career.

    You made this point in the span of 150 words, here let us reiterate:

    "Rayadu's century will not be a career defining knock"

    "The Australia series (for Fawad) cannot be a one off"

    Oh so for one player, 3 matches will define his career, even though he actually, when he was younger and actually less of a player he is now, performed in their home ground, as well as in England, and came back this year and did what few players have ever done to bring themselves back on the team. For the other, who has continued to score and scored a match winning knock, that will not define his career, well because you say so? Which one is it? Then of course there is Shafiq whom you are equating test to ODI's or even if you are not you are rating a 50 at an awful SR and a 29 and saying that is career defining. It is pathetically laughable that I even respond to this jargon.

    You never post anything of merit, value or intelligence. You spew things you think are right with no empirical evidence and are wrong 95% of the time and on the off chance you are right, you shove it down everyones throats as though you are nostradamus.

    Like I said, all for Shafiq, but the body of work would easily suggest he is fools gold more so than a sure thing, and it would suggest you are better betting on Fawad than Shafiq because he has shown more overall than inconsistent pretty boy Shafiq. Nothing you can or will say can rebut this.

    We're overrating a 50 and a 29 and shooting down everything that Fawad did since his come back based on 3 matches.
    So you ran out of points and paraphrased what you said in the last paragraph:

    Also, you are blatantly ignoring the way Fawad was found out against Australia and are simply considering that it is just 3 games. He was not out of form. He went back from there and scored a double hundred in FC and was scoring runs before the Australian series as well.

    He was simply 'exposed' and his one dimensional approach was brought to the fore for everyone to see which is a weakness.


    You are almost always wrong, you will almost always be wrong, and you should never make predictions.

    Don't respond to me, because it is a waste of mine and your time because you will get defeated again and again and fly around the points to grasp on straws for things I neither implied or said to try and shift the conversation elsewhere.

    You were wrong about Sarfraz, Shehzad, Fawad, Yasir Shah, Zulfi Babar, Amin, Shafiq (the only one who you MIGHT be right about, but still not even close to proving it). Do you not get tired of being wrong?
    The irony is strong here because you are the one here who have put words in my mouth just so that you can put your's across. You are rigidly comparing Rayudu and Asad in ODIs but I am not and wasn't. I was comparing them as a whole and Test hundreds vs SA is a whole lot bigger than a second string SL ODI attack and much more indicative of a player's quality.
    And the Pakistani inside you has eventually come out. May I ask what have all these players achieved to prove me wrong? My opinion that in the long run, none of them are good enough for the top level and will not be world class cricketers?

    Isn't Pakistan filled with promising players losing the plot down the road? Are we going to repeat the process every time we see someone with potential?

    How many 'future stars' have we produced over the years and how many have gone on to be stars? That is self-explanatory.

    Sarfraz isn't the first or the last WK to score a few Test hundreds, Shehzad isn't the first young batsman to score a few hundreds, there are more spinners in the subcontinent than I care to remember who will do well against Australia on these surfaces and count Bangladesh and their endless inventory of left-arm orthodox bowlers and of course jury is out on Amin and Shehzad as well.

    Here is my favourite thing. When you are wrong, you will shift the conversation to a point you never made, such as Sarfraz's keeping ability and act as though you owned that in the first place.
    What my favorite thing is when you are infatuated with a player, you are blinded to see his shortcomings in other departments and refuse to digest any criticism directed at them. Sarfraz is the golden boy of PP these days and his keeping has been mediocre, yet everyone is satisfied because they can't get enough of his batting.

    On the contrary, I think both Asad and Amin have good qualities, but I've gone on record to highlight their weaknesses as well for example, there is no doubt Amin is mentally weak and Shafiq hasn't progressed as much as he should have and his strike rotation is a problem. You on the other hand have blinded to Shehzad's ridiculous approach in ODIs where he refuses to strike at more than 65-70 for the first 80-90 deliveries and fails to provide any momentum at the top.

    You are refusing to see that Fawad is very one dimensional.


    Anyone who thinks you are a quality poster, has no idea what quality is. You try to go against the wind, and when wrong, latch onto another point and ignore the original one wholeheartedly and not own up to it. Be a man, admit when you're wrong and be done with it. You are a nuisance with this little shtick you have and an eye roller whenever I read.
    Your opinion which I respect.

    You clearly twisted around what I said and brought Fawad, Amin, Sarfraz etc into the discussion when it had nothing to do with and that was some awful use of context there which with all due respect is not one of your strengths any way.

    To put it simply:

    You are using Rayudu's hundred today to suggest that he's a better ODI batsman than Shafiq. A top order batsman gets to bat at his natural position and scores. Surprise.

    On the other hand, Shafiq keeps getting pushed up and down the order with hardly getting 3 games on the trot and in those few games, he has done better than any number 3 in Pakistan cricket over the last 5 years barring Hafeez.

    Secondly, since you are a big believer in domestic stats, how can Rayudu be better than Shafiq when you compare their LA records? So what is it then? I am a little confused here:

    Are domestic stats reflective of your ability only when it suits your agenda or are domestic stats always hold true over a decent sample?

    Which one is it?

    Finally, don't tell others not to respond when after posting misquoted tripe because when you give it be ready to take it as well. Is this what you are going to do in the courtroom? Won't last long I'm afraid.

  22. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Boss View Post
    Was your most successful batsman along with Suresh Raina in England LOI's where likes of Kohli struggled. In the T'20 game, Dhoni robbed him strike in the final over otherwise who knows what would have been the result. Was highest scorer against Pakistan in Asia Cup. Limited opportunities he got, he played well. Don't make your perception based on few games. He is a fine young cricketer.
    Not a few games.

    List A (79.37 found in Wisden). Recent Australia A tour (everyone from India who scored runs scored nearing 100 SR and Rayudu did it at 78).

    All the international matches I have seen of Rayudu.

    Its a trend. He's a liability. Can score but not do it fast enough usually.
    Last edited by sensible-indian-fan; 7th November 2014 at 01:47.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

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    Kedar Jadhav deserves to be in the team ahead of Rayudu or Talent.


    aaj mujh ko bahut burā kah kar
    aap ne naam to liyā merā
    -----Jaun Eliya

  24. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Not a few games.

    List A (79.37 found in Wisden). Recent Australia A tour (everyone from India who scored runs scored nearing 100 SR and Rayudu did it at 78).

    All the international matches I have seen of Rayudu.

    Its a trend. He's a liability. Can score but not do it fast enough usually.
    These are the three significant scores he made on that tour:

    32 of 20 balls match 2 against SA

    70 of 80 balls while chasing (India A was 88/3 when he walked in)

    77 of 112 while chasing (India A was 34/3)

    So I think he played according to the situation. I guess not all players need to go bang bang. India can afford a batsman who can have a SR of 75-79 as our team is filled with dashers. Every team historically have had players like that in the middle order. If he can score consistently and average in the 40's he cannot be dropped for reasons such that he is not entertaining etc....I have watched Rayudu as a young player and the guy can hit big if need be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by giri26 View Post
    These are the three significant scores he made on that tour:

    32 of 20 balls match 2 against SA

    70 of 80 balls while chasing (India A was 88/3 when he walked in)

    77 of 112 while chasing (India A was 34/3)

    So I think he played according to the situation. I guess not all players need to go bang bang. India can afford a batsman who can have a SR of 75-79 as our team is filled with dashers. Every team historically have had players like that in the middle order. If he can score consistently and average in the 40's he cannot be dropped for reasons such that he is not entertaining etc....I have watched Rayudu as a young player and the guy can hit big if need be.
    Low SR when coming in a situation where stability is needed is acceptable.

    But his overall SR in the whole tournament compared to rest was low.

    Plus with Rayudu, low SR is consistent at all levels.

    India cannot afford him with this SR. That doesn't mean he is useless but we can't afford him with a bowling liability.

    There are guys like Jadhav and Samson who deserve the spot more than Rayudu.


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  26. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Not a few games.

    List A (79.37 found in Wisden). Recent Australia A tour (everyone from India who scored runs scored nearing 100 SR and Rayudu did it at 78).

    All the international matches I have seen of Rayudu.

    Its a trend. He's a liability. Can score but not do it fast enough usually.
    Again you are generalizing a player based on your personal preference like you do for Ashwin. How can you say he is a liability to a team when he just scored a century and won MoM? How can he be a liability when he scored runs almost all opportunities he has been given? How can he be a liability when was the 2nd highest run scorer in England?
    You will never have all top 7 batsman play at a strike rate of 100. Even Dhawan was batting at a strike rate of 46 today and did not hit a single boundary till 12th over. But he later improved it like Rayudu. Will you drop Dhawan because he was not scoring at a run a ball from start? This strike rate logic was one of the bizzare thing I have heard recently. You can argue for the sake of it though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Low SR when coming in a situation where stability is needed is acceptable.

    But his overall SR in the whole tournament compared to rest was low.

    Plus with Rayudu, low SR is consistent at all levels.

    India cannot afford him with this SR. That doesn't mean he is useless but we can't afford him with a bowling liability.

    There are guys like Jadhav and Samson who deserve the spot more than Rayudu.
    But how would you drop a performing player and replace him with either a rookie or a player who after 100+ ODI games averages 35 at a SR of 78? Would you as a selector say to Rayudu that we are dropping you because we assume that Jadhav and Samson will come into international cricket and start striking at 85-90 immediately and also average between 35-40?

    Rohit Sharma away from Home since 2013 (His comeback to India ODI team):

    Matches: 27
    Runs: 835
    Ave: 36
    SR: 67.33

    How would you justify his inclusion ahead of a player who is scoring runs now and his only failure was in NZ where he played only 2 games and obviously his SR is same or better.
    Last edited by giri26; 7th November 2014 at 03:34.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Boss View Post
    Again you are generalizing a player based on your personal preference like you do for Ashwin. How can you say he is a liability to a team when he just scored a century and won MoM? How can he be a liability when he scored runs almost all opportunities he has been given? How can he be a liability when was the 2nd highest run scorer in England?

    You will never have all top 7 batsman play at a strike rate of 100. Even Dhawan was batting at a strike rate of 46 today and did not hit a single boundary till 12th over. But he later improved it like Rayudu. Will you drop Dhawan because he was not scoring at a run a ball from start? This strike rate logic was one of the bizzare thing I have heard recently. You can argue for the sake of it though.
    Because he scores SLOW.

    Others like Dhawan can accelerate.

    Rayudu doesn't.

    First you misinterpret my posts.

    Next you keep making points based on one innings.

    Its like me saying "How can you call Ashwin bad when he took 2 wickets for 49 runs today" and outbowled Jaddu?

    That would be garbage logic. Cos 1 match doesn't mean everything.

    Rayudu's List A domestic SR is poor.
    International SR is poor (boosted by today's efforts).
    Australia A tour SR is poor compared to the rest.

    India is a batting team.

    Runs and average are one aspect. SR is another.

    Lots of people were using countless logic to defend Yuvi in WC 2014 when I kept saying again and again that guy would lose a match
    and it happened.

    See the trend.

    If Rayudu improves his SR, I won't say a word against him.

    Till then, don't use 1 match examples. Or how many runs he runs he scored (without talking about SR).


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  29. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by giri26 View Post
    But how would you drop a performing player and replace him with either a rookie or a player who after 100+ ODI games averages 35 at a SR of 78? Would you as a selector say to Rayudu that we are dropping you because we assume that Jadhav and Samson will come into international cricket and start striking at 85-90 immediately and also average between 35-40?

    Rohit Sharma away from Home since 2013 (His comeback to India ODI team):

    Matches: 27
    Runs: 835
    Ave: 36
    SR: 67.33

    How would you justify his inclusion ahead of a player who is scoring runs now and his only failure was in NZ where he played only 2 games and obviously his SR is same or better.
    And that is why bad selections screw you.

    You give a chance to someone and you must back them the right way.

    Rayudu shouldn't have been given the chance considering his SR.

    And to be honest, for the England tour, both Jadhav and Samson deserved to be picked and one of them deserved to be in the playing XI.

    When did I say Rohit is cool?

    Comparatively he is better for Indian tracks. In Aus tracks, Rohit can tackle the bounce but ideally I don't want Rohit too.
    Last edited by sensible-indian-fan; 7th November 2014 at 03:38.


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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Because he scores SLOW.

    Others like Dhawan can accelerate.

    Rayudu doesn't.

    First you misinterpret my posts.

    Next you keep making points based on one innings.

    Its like me saying "How can you call Ashwin bad when he took 2 wickets for 49 runs today" and outbowled Jaddu?

    That would be garbage logic. Cos 1 match doesn't mean everything.

    Rayudu's List A domestic SR is poor.
    International SR is poor (boosted by today's efforts).
    Australia A tour SR is poor compared to the rest.

    India is a batting team.

    Runs and average are one aspect. SR is another.

    Lots of people were using countless logic to defend Yuvi in WC 2014 when I kept saying again and again that guy would lose a match
    and it happened.

    See the trend.

    If Rayudu improves his SR, I won't say a word against him.

    Till then, don't use 1 match examples. Or how many runs he runs he scored (without talking about SR).
    Again you are wrong. Every team needs a stabilizer in the middle order and all batsman cannot score FAST runs as per you. In ODI cricket you take advantage of the first 10 overs, middle order stabilize the innings and then lower middle order (hitters) score fast runs in the end. What Rayudu did is scoring runs every opportunity he got and one simply cannot ignore it.

    You said in previous post, that Rayudu bats slowly and then improves his run rate. What if he don't score a century he will get out at a poor strike rate. Dhawan does exactly the same. What if he gets out after the slow start?

    Every batsman in a team been assigned a role. Raydu's job is to stabilize the innings for the late middle order like Raina and Dhoni to take advanage from the batting powerplay onwards.

  31. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Boss View Post
    Again you are wrong. Every team needs a stabilizer in the middle order and all batsman cannot score FAST runs as per you. In ODI cricket you take advantage of the first 10 overs, middle order stabilize the innings and then lower middle order (hitters) score fast runs in the end. What Rayudu did is scoring runs every opportunity he got and one simply cannot ignore it.

    You said in previous post, that Rayudu bats slowly and then improves his run rate. What if he don't score a century he will get out at a poor strike rate. Dhawan does exactly the same. What if he gets out after the slow start?

    Every batsman in a team been assigned a role. Raydu's job is to stabilize the innings for the late middle order like Raina and Dhoni to take advanage from the batting powerplay onwards.
    Dhawan doesn't slow score every match and has the need to specifically accelerate.

    Taking singles, rotating strikes will keep your SR around 75-80. A few boundaries and it will hit 90-100 with ease.

    Its as simple as that.

    Even Sachin in some matches scored really slow.

    But in general we see stuff.

    Rayudu gets bogged down most of the times which means he has to make up his SR. Others guys don't have such issues (maybe Rohit does - haven't seen his stats - not impressed with him too).

    Plus just a few posts back, I said wrote this in reply to giri:

    Low SR when coming in a situation where stability is needed is acceptable.
    Some cases, low SR is acceptable. Not every innings where you have to make up. This isn't ODI of 90s. Plus we don't have a strong bowling unit to have such batsmen.

    There are more deserving players than Rayudu but since Rayudu has performed he would probably get a few more chances.

    Rayudu is gritty but issue is that in a tough tense knockout chase (we will have 3 knockouts in WC), his innings can mess it up. I am not looking for crazy stroke makers to replace Rayudu. Just those who keep the scoreboard ticking and don't put pressure on themselves and others.
    Last edited by sensible-indian-fan; 7th November 2014 at 03:59.


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  32. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Dhawan doesn't slow score every match and has the need to specifically accelerate.

    Taking singles, rotating strikes will keep your SR around 75-80. A few boundaries and it will hit 90-100 with ease.

    Its as simple as that.

    Even Sachin in some matches scored really slow.

    But in general we see stuff.

    Rayudu gets bogged down most of the times which means he has to make up his SR. Others guys don't have such issues (maybe Rohit does - haven't seen his stats - not impressed with him too).

    Plus just a few posts back, I said wrote this in reply to giri:



    There are more deserving players than Rayudu but since Rayudu has performed he would probably get a few more chances.

    Rayudu is gritty but issue is that in a tough tense knockout chase (we will have 3 knockouts in WC), his innings can mess it up. I am not looking for crazy stroke makers to replace Rayudu. Just those who keep the scoreboard ticking and don't put pressure on themselves and others.
    Glad that you not looking for crazy stroke makers because that itself sound crazy. And no Rayudu don't bog down rather play according to the situation. Don't like today's game as example, lets jog into memory lane then

    Asia Cup vs Pak: India struggling 101 - 4, incomes Rayudu and scored a gritty 54. Did we expect him to go bang bang from ball 1 in that situation?

    Lets go to England now. 3rd ODI, Nottingham where India chasing 227 and found themselves at 120-3. Rayudu comes and play an unbeaten knock of 64 with a strike rate of 82 and took India to victory.

    Did not get a chance to bat the next game but thats allright.

    Lets walk further to Leeds. India chasing 294 and found themselves at 49/3. Incomes Rayudu and scores a fantastic 53 at a strike rate of 82.

    Though all those runs are scored at pretty impressive strike rate but I could less care. As long he is winning the game for India, no one should care.
    Last edited by Big Boss; 7th November 2014 at 04:09.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Boss View Post
    Glad that you not looking for crazy stroke makers because that itself sound crazy. And no Rayudu don't bog down rather play according to the situation. Don't like today's game as example, lets jog into memory lane then

    Asia Cup vs Pak: India struggling 101 - 4, incomes Rayudu and scored a gritty 54. Did we expect him to go bang bang from ball 1 in that situation?

    Lets go to England now. 3rd ODI, Nottingham where India chasing 227 and found themselves at 120-3. Rayudu comes and play an unbeaten knock of 64 with a strike rate of 82 and took India to victory.

    Did not get a chance to bat the next game but thats allright.

    Lets walk further to Leeds. India chasing 294 and found themselves at 49/3. Incomes Rayudu and scores a fantastic 53 at a strike rate of 82.

    Though all those runs are scored at pretty impressive strike rate but I could less care. As long he is winning the game for India, no one should care.
    I watched all those matches.

    Against Pakistan, he did a rescue job I agree.

    In England series, he made it up in every innings (maybe except for 1 match - don't remember). Getting to a SR of 82 is fine but it doesn't paint a full picture. As I said, a few fours and you will get it. But every innings you won't get that 50 and a chance to make up your SR.

    Good ODI batsman shouldn't have to make up their SR. Good strike rotation with occasional boundaries would get you good SR no matter when you get out.

    As long he is winning the game for India, no one should care.
    No context and deeper look matters. Yuvi won us a game against Aus in WC 2014 and that knock was the primary reason why everyone felt he still had it and we ended up losing the cup. Not saying Rayudu would do the same but never go by final results. But by how it is achieved.

    With Rayudu, watching him play, its not convincing. If he gets out in 10s or 20s, he will do so by putting a lot of pressure on other batsman.

    Why do I call Rahane a garbage ODI No 4 batsman (very good opener though). Same reason. Gets bogged down in middle order.

    --

    Anyways, I am going to stop. We both will be discussing this till forever.

    Lets's see how it turns out.
    Last edited by sensible-indian-fan; 7th November 2014 at 04:21.


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  34. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    I watched all those matches.

    Against Pakistan, he did a rescue job I agree.

    In England series, except 1 innings, he made it up in every innings. Getting to a SR of 82 is fine but it doesn't paint a full picture. As I said, a few fours and you will get it. But every innings you won't get that 50 and a chance to make up the SR.

    Good ODI batsman shouldn't have to make up any SR. Good strike rotation with occasional boundaries would get you good SR no matter what runs you get out at.



    No context and deeper look matters. Yuvi won us a game against Aus in WC 2014 and that knock was the primary reason why everyone felt he still had it and we ended up losing the cup. Not saying Rayudu would do the same but never go by final results. But by how it is achieved.

    With Rayudu, watching him play, its not convincing. If he gets out in 10s or 20s, he will do so by putting a lot of pressure on other batsman.

    Why do I call Rahane a garbage ODI No 4 batsman (very good opener though). Same reason. Gets bogged down in middle order.

    --

    Anyways, I am going to stop. We both will be discussing this till forever.

    Lets's see how it turns out.
    No batsman gurantees 50 every game, why single out Rayudu? ;)

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    Anyways, I am going to stop. We both will be discussing this till forever.

    Lets's see how it turns out.
    Ok Bro...let me know when you want to discuss it further.

    Yep lets see how he goes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Boss View Post
    No batsman gurantees 50 every game, why single out Rayudu? ;)
    Again and again the same point dude...We discussed this bro....

    That is my fundamental argument - You won't get a 50 every game so the onus is on you to maintain your SR so that you don't have to make it up later on. Since you can't get a 50 every time, you can't make up your SR later on if you get out to a low score (which will happen for all). A few instances of low SR is are okay but in general, that approach is not acceptable.

    Rotation of strike, a few boundaries here and there will keep your SR in check.

    Rayudu doesn't do that.
    Rahane (when he was at No 4) didn't do that and I always said either Rahane must open or must not play in the team.
    Last edited by sensible-indian-fan; 7th November 2014 at 04:31.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Boss View Post
    Ok Bro...let me know when you want to discuss it further.

    Yep lets see how he goes
    Sure bro.

    If Rayudu gets better with SR (in general), I won't have any objections.


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  38. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Again and again the same point dude...We discussed this bro....

    That is my fundamental argument - You won't get a 50 every game so the onus is on you to maintain your SR so that you don't have to make it up later on. Since you can't get a 50 every time, you can't make up your SR later on if you get out to a low score (which will happen for all). A few instances of low SR is are okay but in general, that approach is not acceptable.

    Rotation of strike, a few boundaries here and there will keep your SR in check.

    Rayudu doesn't do that.
    Rahane (when he was at No 4) didn't do that and I always said either Rahane must open or must not play in the team.
    You are also going back on the same topic no? The above examples I gave of the matches he won with the limited opportunities he got, he played according to the situation of the game. That approach is not at all wrong, if you ask me.
    When you chasing a total and team is 49/3, you need to see of that phase. Some day it works sometime it dosen't. But to say the approach is wrong and he always needs to bat at a strike rate of 100 irrespective of the game situation does not make any sense.

  39. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Sure bro.

    If Rayudu gets better with SR (in general), I won't have any objections.
    Not that your objection matters but for your sake hope his run rate increases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Boss View Post
    You are also going back on the same topic no? The above examples I gave of the matches he won with the limited opportunities he got, he played according to the situation of the game. That approach is not at all wrong, if you ask me.
    When you chasing a total and team is 49/3, you need to see of that phase. Some day it works sometime it dosen't. But to say the approach is wrong and he always needs to bat at a strike rate of 100 irrespective of the game situation does not make any sense.
    I didn't bro and I specifically made that clear many times in the above posts.


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  41. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    I didn't bro and I specifically made that clear many times in the above posts.
    Ha ok

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    @Mamoon

    EENNNNNNNNNN Wrong again.

    Oh this should be fun. You're a big POS with that last comment, as we all know, trying to use my profession (for your information, I'm doing very well, have a job lined up, and future is pretty much set, whereas you, just talk out of your *** as per the norm) as a means to make an argument. We all know why you're doing that. It is pathetic at best, but hey, if you want to go down that path, I work full time while in school, and I make more money, while in school right now, than you will in your entire lifetime, so if you think that is poor on my part, you started by talking of my profession, which I am doing very well in. My realities are better than your dreams are.

    You have done a good job to twist my words around and as a future lawyer, I must commend you because you are on the right path. Show me where I said that Shafiq has played a career defining innings in ODI cricket or that half century was Australia is going to define his career. If you cannot do that, then there is a little edit button below the post which might come handy.
    You want me to go back through your thousands of posts per day to find when you have said that the 50 Shafiq scored is going to be a huge stepping stone? We all know what you think of that, but hey, nice try.

    Players have bad series and Amin hasn't been productive so far, but the way Fawad's wings were clipped by Australia was definitely eye opening. The irony is that you have completely missed the context in which he was worked out by Australia, it wasn't just a matter of him not scoring runs.

    He didn't get out to good deliveries, he didn't play poor shots, he didn't show lack of focus etc etc etc, he was completely strangled and what Australia did with him is a great template for other teams to work on. How many batsmen will end up not out in an ODI innings at the death and still have a SR of 50? Provide me some examples.

    Of course you can say that it was a one off and he's going to come back from it, but if other teams keep doing to him what Australia did, he will not last.

    You are a big believer in the theory that players get better with age so it shouldn't be news to you that a 29 year old Fawad who is extremely one dimensional is not going to change him game at this stage of his career.
    Swing and a miss. The fact you said players have a bad series, and then laughably say what Fawad did is eye opening, based on the exact same things that Amin has done in his career, is so funny, it is wow. You have never and will never have any points.

    You are basing Fawad on that ONE match. He's not a star, who the hell said he is, but overall he performs. If you look at all three matches, he played 2 bad ones, then that new rule came into play. The hypocrisy here and the fact you are jumping goalposts is hilarious.

    So you ran out of points and paraphrased what you said in the last paragraph:

    Also, you are blatantly ignoring the way Fawad was found out against Australia and are simply considering that it is just 3 games. He was not out of form. He went back from there and scored a double hundred in FC and was scoring runs before the Australian series as well.

    He was simply 'exposed' and his one dimensional approach was brought to the fore for everyone to see which is a weakness.
    Again with this nonsense. There are a plethora of players who have bad series'. The same Shafiq and Amin you laud have bad careers actually, but hey let's focus on 3 matches of Fawad and call him trash, but ignore the countless times Shafiq has scored awfully. How about that 9 against scotland in Edinborough off 19 balls! Oh we can't talk about that, that was last year, he's a different player now, but for you who is using the age argument against me, Mr. 29 year old Shafiq who is what he will be pretty much has never even scored a 50. He has never shown any progression and has been the same kid from day 1. Shehzad, progression from day 1, Shafiq, same player.

    Do you see how you post. Let's see, you create an argument one when and are completely oblivious to the fact that if you use it right back in your argument, it actually shows the mootness and hilarity of your point.

    The irony is strong here because you are the one here who have put words in my mouth just so that you can put your's across. You are rigidly comparing Rayudu and Asad in ODIs but I am not and wasn't. I was comparing them as a whole and Test hundreds vs SA is a whole lot bigger than a second string SL ODI attack and much more indicative of a player's quality.
    And the Pakistani inside you has eventually come out. May I ask what have all these players achieved to prove me wrong? My opinion that in the long run, none of them are good enough for the top level and will not be world class cricketers?

    Isn't Pakistan filled with promising players losing the plot down the road? Are we going to repeat the process every time we see someone with potential?

    How many 'future stars' have we produced over the years and how many have gone on to be stars? That is self-explanatory.

    Sarfraz isn't the first or the last WK to score a few Test hundreds, Shehzad isn't the first young batsman to score a few hundreds, there are more spinners in the subcontinent than I care to remember who will do well against Australia on these surfaces and count Bangladesh and their endless inventory of left-arm orthodox bowlers and of course jury is out on Amin and Shehzad as well.
    This is the worst post of them all. It is actually funny that one could come up with so much pathetic jargon all in one.

    You asked me, who is better, Shafiq or Rayadu, this argument obviously had to do with ODI's. You can play dumb and pretend as though I was referring to test, all the power to you. You are now deflecting and we both know what the truth is, so buzz off clown.

    Shafiq's 100 against SA is the most overrated century ever. Let's stick to Shafiq and tests, nothing to do with Rayadu, he is the better test player, but as of yet he still has a ways to go before he is going to be a good player. He scored a century against SA, great right, here are his next scores: 19, 6, 6, 4, 15, 10, 14 (those last 4 against Zimbabwe btw), 54, 10, 130, 13, 6, 18, 23, 1. 7 scores out of 15 below 10. Bravo Shafiq.

    I never compared Shafiq to Rayadu in tests, but hey, play whatever card you want. Do not ever lead with garbage like "the Pakistani in you has come out". The awful posting in you came out the first day you posted here.

    What my favorite thing is when you are infatuated with a player, you are blinded to see his shortcomings in other departments and refuse to digest any criticism directed at them. Sarfraz is the golden boy of PP these days and his keeping has been mediocre, yet everyone is satisfied because they can't get enough of his batting.

    On the contrary, I think both Asad and Amin have good qualities, but I've gone on record to highlight their weaknesses as well for example, there is no doubt Amin is mentally weak and Shafiq hasn't progressed as much as he should have and his strike rotation is a problem. You on the other hand have blinded to Shehzad's ridiculous approach in ODIs where he refuses to strike at more than 65-70 for the first 80-90 deliveries and fails to provide any momentum at the top.

    You are refusing to see that Fawad is very one dimensional.
    Oh wow, well done! Words in my mouth, using my own argument against me because you have no where to run. Nice try though. I am a fan of those who try to emulate me, but in this case, you are really bad at doing it, how about you let those with the ability and some information to back it up.

    I said, you were wrong about his batting, and then when you were wrong about that, you needed to quickly find something else he was bad at so as you could lessen the blow of how wrong you were and you made a claim to fame that you had said this for a long time. Nice attempt at trying to deflect as per the norm and use my own arguments against me as though it is effective.

    I have no problem with weaknesses. I have said Fawad's weaknesses from day one BUT the difference is, I also say Fawad based on what has occurred is simply more valuable than Shafiq. Shafiq is more talented, but as I have said, time and time, and tirelessly, time again, talent and production do not go hand in hand.

    Don't like criticism, ha. I can sit and criticize every Pakistani player as they all have weaknesses and none of them are guys I would put in the top 15-20 in the world. I'm a realist. I will tell you that as stupid as Fawad looks batting, he will put more runs on the board than Shafiq if I had to put my money on it. Do I think Shafiq has the talent? Yup. Has he made use of it? Nope. At 28-29 or whatever his age is, he should have cemented a place in the ODI squad, and position of his batting wouldn't keep him out if he were that good. Don't give me the Rahane argument, or any other player who has succeeded at different spots. Good players find a way to perform whether they open or are the 11th man. They may succeed more in certain spots, but Shafiq's 35 average at 3 isn't lighting the world on fire.

    I have already said Shehzad's weakness time and time again, but if we look at it since his come back, 40 average, SR around 80, match winning centuries and that too against SA. Tell me when Shafiq does that.

    It's so funny. I could criticize every guy on our team, unfortunately, they are all we have, so I will in fact choose based on what we have and what I think is the best combination of players based on the number one skill that you have always ignored and that is production. Runs on the board is greater than pretty cover drives.

    Your opinion which I respect.

    You clearly twisted around what I said and brought Fawad, Amin, Sarfraz etc into the discussion when it had nothing to do with and that was some awful use of context there which with all due respect is not one of your strengths any way.

    To put it simply:

    You are using Rayudu's hundred today to suggest that he's a better ODI batsman than Shafiq. A top order batsman gets to bat at his natural position and scores. Surprise.

    On the other hand, Shafiq keeps getting pushed up and down the order with hardly getting 3 games on the trot and in those few games, he has done better than any number 3 in Pakistan cricket over the last 5 years barring Hafeez.

    Secondly, since you are a big believer in domestic stats, how can Rayudu be better than Shafiq when you compare their LA records? So what is it then? I am a little confused here:

    Are domestic stats reflective of your ability only when it suits your agenda or are domestic stats always hold true over a decent sample?

    Which one is it?

    Finally, don't tell others not to respond when after posting misquoted tripe because when you give it be ready to take it as well. Is this what you are going to do in the courtroom? Won't last long I'm afraid.
    Personally attacking me to get a rile out of me. I love it. Look you jester, just because you ignore things and choose not to understand context, doesn't mean they have no merit. You use your eyeball test which has been wrong time and time again and now are flailing like a fish out of water.

    The Shafiq at 3 argument, well done my friend, he has done great, so many great #3s have been on Pakistan in the past 5 years. Let's take a trip down memory lane with our superstars Malik, Younis, Kamran, and all the other TTFs. Bravo my friend, you got me there. I already addressed it above about batting position and performance. Good players perform regardless of where they are in some fashion. Again am I saying Rayadu is good? Nope. Just better than Shafiq.

    The list A stats are almost null, and the funny thing is, I have always said that List A stats are more indicative of success but it is not the be all end all. I love how you make a finite statement, with no context of what was actually said and are running like a chicken with your head cut off to find a good argument. "Let me say things he kind of sort of said and ignore the bit that gives the point I am about to make useless to make it seem as though I have a legitimate argument". Nice attempt though. I will not give you flack for lack of effort because even with your lack of comprehension, you do give it your all to come up with tabloid arguments.

    Finally, don't talk about my personal life and career. We both know that you have no argument and are basically trying to use a mirror to deflect an actual argument back at yourself. It's in poor taste. Others may not understand what is going on but me and you do.

    Did I sit and talk about your medical career? Nope, but hey, let's deflect some more because when I have no argument about cricket, the best thing to do is talk about personal lives which have nothing to do with PP! Yay!

    All in all, nice try. Using my tactics works when you put something of substance down, not run around like the village is on fire.

    Don't waste my time anymore. I won't respond to you and you don't respond to me. Your little game gets others riled up, but it is just awful posting and I won't even bother.
    Last edited by steelo green; 7th November 2014 at 05:19.

  43. #203
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    Oh and I meant to say 50 against India, SL and Bang before you jump on that.

  44. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelo green View Post
    @Mamoon

    EENNNNNNNNNN Wrong again.

    Oh this should be fun. You're a big POS with that last comment, as we all know, trying to use my profession (for your information, I'm doing very well, have a job lined up, and future is pretty much set, whereas you, just talk out of your *** as per the norm) as a means to make an argument. We all know why you're doing that. It is pathetic at best, but hey, if you want to go down that path, I work full time while in school, and I make more money, while in school right now, than you will in your entire lifetime, so if you think that is poor on my part, you started by talking of my profession, which I am doing very well in. My realities are better than your dreams are.
    I didn't say that you are not doing well or not making money; I simply stated that your instincts as a lawyer have come to the fore.

    Yawn, the oldest trick in the book to make a prejudicial statement. 'I make more money than you will in your lifetime'. You don't know me, I don't know you. I could have enough money to buy you and your next three generations with you working full time for the next 50 years and the same can be true the other way around so please refrain from these prehistoric rhetorical sweeping statements to make a point because they really don't.

    You want me to go back through your thousands of posts per day to find when you have said that the 50 Shafiq scored is going to be a huge stepping stone? We all know what you think of that, but hey, nice try.
    A new dictionary is in order as well.

    A stepping stone doesn't equate a career defining innings.

    A stepping stone is merely a springboard that you can use to elevate your career. History is filled with numerous cricketers who had a difficult start but one performance/series turned things around for them, even though in isolation that performance wasn't really a big deal. Will Shafiq use it as a stepping stone and build on it or go back to square one? Time well tell.

    A career defining performance 'defines' your career - it is what people associate with you after you retirement. Neither Shafiq nor Rayudu have played career defining performances.


    Swing and a miss. The fact you said players have a bad series, and then laughably say what Fawad did is eye opening, based on the exact same things that Amin has done in his career, is so funny, it is wow. You have never and will never have any points.

    You are basing Fawad on that ONE match. He's not a star, who the hell said he is, but overall he performs. If you look at all three matches, he played 2 bad ones, then that new rule came into play. The hypocrisy here and the fact you are jumping goalposts is hilarious.



    Again with this nonsense. There are a plethora of players who have bad series'. The same Shafiq and Amin you laud have bad careers actually, but hey let's focus on 3 matches of Fawad and call him trash, but ignore the countless times Shafiq has scored awfully. How about that 9 against scotland in Edinborough off 19 balls! Oh we can't talk about that, that was last year, he's a different player now, but for you who is using the age argument against me, Mr. 29 year old Shafiq who is what he will be pretty much has never even scored a 50. He has never shown any progression and has been the same kid from day 1. Shehzad, progression from day 1, Shafiq, same player.

    Do you see how you post. Let's see, you create an argument one when and are completely oblivious to the fact that if you use it right back in your argument, it actually shows the mootness and hilarity of your point.
    You would call it one bad series, I'd call it an exhibition of how Fawad will be exposed at this level if teams draw him out of his comfort zone. You are assuming that it won't happen again, I'm suggesting that it will if teams use the Australian series as a template.

    You would call that dismissal in the 3rd ODI controversial, I'd call it a fine trap. Australia knew what he was gonna do and they executed it perfectly.

    This is the worst post of them all. It is actually funny that one could come up with so much pathetic jargon all in one.

    You asked me, who is better, Shafiq or Rayadu, this argument obviously had to do with ODI's. You can play dumb and pretend as though I was referring to test, all the power to you. You are now deflecting and we both know what the truth is, so buzz off clown.

    Shafiq's 100 against SA is the most overrated century ever. Let's stick to Shafiq and tests, nothing to do with Rayadu, he is the better test player, but as of yet he still has a ways to go before he is going to be a good player. He scored a century against SA, great right, here are his next scores: 19, 6, 6, 4, 15, 10, 14 (those last 4 against Zimbabwe btw), 54, 10, 130, 13, 6, 18, 23, 1. 7 scores out of 15 below 10. Bravo Shafiq.

    I never compared Shafiq to Rayadu in tests, but hey, play whatever card you want. Do not ever lead with garbage like "the Pakistani in you has come out". The awful posting in you came out the first day you posted here.
    If we talk about overrated hundreds, Fawad and Shehzad in the Asia Cup are top of the pile for certain.

    Secondly, the point I disagree with most is how you simply go game by game without looking at the bigger picture. X score more runs than Y in Z matches, so X is bound to be better than Z. No it doesn't work like that.

    Rayudu scoring a hundred in an ODI while Shafiq hasn't yet is no indication that Rayudu will go on to be a better ODI player. It is true that Shafiq has been inconsistent, but his performance against SA show what he's capable of. You can get a little leeway for not piling up the runs against Zimbabwe.

    You must be one of those guys who thought our opening woes were solved for good when a young Farhat and a young Hameed combined to have four consecutive 100 opening stands against NZ in 2003, both looking superstars in the middle. Many players have fallen apart and eventually been found with time even though people were oblivious to their shortcomings prior to that.


    Oh wow, well done! Words in my mouth, using my own argument against me because you have no where to run. Nice try though. I am a fan of those who try to emulate me, but in this case, you are really bad at doing it, how about you let those with the ability and some information to back it up.

    I said, you were wrong about his batting, and then when you were wrong about that, you needed to quickly find something else he was bad at so as you could lessen the blow of how wrong you were and you made a claim to fame that you had said this for a long time. Nice attempt at trying to deflect as per the norm and use my own arguments against me as though it is effective.

    I have no problem with weaknesses. I have said Fawad's weaknesses from day one BUT the difference is, I also say Fawad based on what has occurred is simply more valuable than Shafiq. Shafiq is more talented, but as I have said, time and time, and tirelessly, time again, talent and production do not go hand in hand.

    Don't like criticism, ha. I can sit and criticize every Pakistani player as they all have weaknesses and none of them are guys I would put in the top 15-20 in the world. I'm a realist. I will tell you that as stupid as Fawad looks batting, he will put more runs on the board than Shafiq if I had to put my money on it. Do I think Shafiq has the talent? Yup. Has he made use of it? Nope. At 28-29 or whatever his age is, he should have cemented a place in the ODI squad, and position of his batting wouldn't keep him out if he were that good. Don't give me the Rahane argument, or any other player who has succeeded at different spots. Good players find a way to perform whether they open or are the 11th man. They may succeed more in certain spots, but Shafiq's 35 average at 3 isn't lighting the world on fire.
    So if someone rightly points out Sarfraz's average keeping, is he deflecting the fact that his batting is clearly improved? Hilarious.

    And please tell me which other number 3 we should have tried between 2010-2014 who would done better than Shafiq and Hafeez at that position.

    Everyone has his favorites, and you don't highlight the weaknesses of your favorites just because they are producing the goods, as if they will continue to come up with the goods for the rest of their career.

    You take things as they come which is obviously how you see it and criticize others for not looking at the bigger picture which is ironic because you yourself don't do that either and your ideology of progression with age is flawed as well. Not every young player gets better with age and at a certain point, the progression stops. You keep going on about Shehzad's potential and improvement over the last year as if he's going to get better exponentially every year. If that is the case then 26-27 he will be like Amla and the possibility of that happening is very low.

    Of course all the players that I doubt can become great players but were not remotely close to the point where you can suggest with aplomb that I've been proven wrong and same goes for the likes of Amin etc. Of course you can suggest that things don't look that way, but this isn't the time to make sweeping statements because things change in Pakistan cricket suddenly. Not long ago, Nasir Jamshed was touted at the next great opener and look at him now. [/quote]

    I have already said Shehzad's weakness time and time again, but if we look at it since his come back, 40 average, SR around 80, match winning centuries and that too against SA. Tell me when Shafiq does that.
    Shehzad at this point is better than Shafiq in ODIs.

    It's so funny. I could criticize every guy on our team, unfortunately, they are all we have, so I will in fact choose based on what we have and what I think is the best combination of players based on the number one skill that you have always ignored and that is production. Runs on the board is greater than pretty cover drives.



    Personally attacking me to get a rile out of me. I love it. Look you jester, just because you ignore things and choose not to understand context, doesn't mean they have no merit. You use your eyeball test which has been wrong time and time again and now are flailing like a fish out of water.

    Go back to your original long post and see who started with the personal attacks. I didn't think you were capable of being entertaining, but this remark of yours did put a smile on my face. You started with the personal jibes and if I gave some back, you think I am trying to rile you up. What were you doing in the first place? Again, refer to post 164 and 168.

    The number of times I get personally attacked on this forum is far, far greater than the number of times I give back.

    The Shafiq at 3 argument, well done my friend, he has done great, so many great #3s have been on Pakistan in the past 5 years. Let's take a trip down memory lane with our superstars Malik, Younis, Kamran, and all the other TTFs. Bravo my friend, you got me there. I already addressed it above about batting position and performance. Good players perform regardless of where they are in some fashion. Again am I saying Rayadu is good? Nope. Just better than Shafiq.
    Again, who should we have tried at 3?

    The list A stats are almost null, and the funny thing is, I have always said that List A stats are more indicative of success but it is not the be all end all. I love how you make a finite statement, with no context of what was actually said and are running like a chicken with your head cut off to find a good argument. "Let me say things he kind of sort of said and ignore the bit that gives the point I am about to make useless to make it seem as though I have a legitimate argument". Nice attempt though. I will not give you flack for lack of effort because even with your lack of comprehension, you do give it your all to come up with tabloid arguments.
    You have always said that domestic stats NEVER lie but now since they don't go well with your argument of Rayudu > Shafiq, they are simply 'indicative' of success?

    You sound like the statsgurus who consider Saeed Anwar an ODI ATG, but cannot explain his pathetic record in SA, AUS and NZ and frce a context because to not sound self-contradictory.

    Pick a side, domestic stats either lie or they don't. There is no middle ground and if there is, it is simply a tool to use subject to convenience which you're doing right now.

    Finally, don't talk about my personal life and career. We both know that you have no argument and are basically trying to use a mirror to deflect an actual argument back at yourself. It's in poor taste. Others may not understand what is going on but me and you do.

    Did I sit and talk about your medical career? Nope, but hey, let's deflect some more because when I have no argument about cricket, the best thing to do is talk about personal lives which have nothing to do with PP! Yay!

    All in all, nice try. Using my tactics works when you put something of substance down, not run around like the village is on fire.

    Don't waste my time anymore. I won't respond to you and you don't respond to me. Your little game gets others riled up, but it is just awful posting and I won't even bother.
    As a budding lawyer with a set future, you shouldn't be making schoolboy errors against a person who has never studied law officially at any level. All your points can be summarized in 5 lines if you take out the personal remarks, use of jargon that would work with people with a meek grasp of English but not me as well as hollow statements like I make more money than you ever will.

    Speaking of personal life, didn't you suggest that I sound knavish and you doubt if I really am someone who is living and has lived all his life in Pakistan? What was that based on? What was it if not a personal remark and a comment that you have little right to make.

    Look closer to home. Anyhow, I'm done as well. No point in going on. Have a good day...

  45. #205
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    ^^ you guys write too long posts man. I am at leave for a month and even I dont have time to go through all that


    "I strive to live forever or die in the attempt" : Yossarian the great

  46. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noobosauras View Post
    ^^ you guys write too long posts man. I am at leave for a month and even I dont have time to go through all that
    SIF, Mamoon, steelo are too much detail oriented

  47. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandeep View Post
    SIF, Mamoon, steelo are too much detail oriented
    SIF doesn't know how to make paragraphs. Hits enter key after each line.

  48. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tera Gawaandi View Post
    SIF doesn't know how to make paragraphs. Hits enter key after each line.
    True. He himself said that..

  49. #209
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    Another good innings today. Looks like Rayudu will be in the Indian WC squad. I don't really like his style of batting but you can't drop someone after they've performed this well - he deserves to keep his place in the squad for a while now. Of course he won't be in the first xi if all Indian batsmen are fit and available.

    Edit, oops he is run out.
    Last edited by Gabbar Singh; 16th November 2014 at 19:33.

  50. #210
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    Quality effort tonight under pressure of collapse and big chase. STUPID RUN OUT TO END THE INNING

  51. #211
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    I rate Rayudu ahead of Tailunted and Uthappa. Not that it means much though.

  52. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    I rate Rayudu ahead of Tailunted and Uthappa. Not that it means much though.
    Assuming it is limited overs AND assuming that all the players are in form .....

    U Chand >> Utthappa >> V Zol >> Y Pathan >> Rayudu

  53. #213
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    Another failure by Rayudu today.

  54. #214
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    India should start investing in guys like Samson, Unmukt Chand after the world cup.

  55. #215
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    Rayudu is mediocre seems like a PCB Style sifaarishi selection :YK

  56. #216
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    Terrific performance today. Saved India from embarassment. Might not prove to be enough but he has shown that he is temperamentally very sound.


    2 possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are terrifying.

  57. #217
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    Clutch player! He needs to be a regular.

  58. #218
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    Name:  rayudu.PNG
Views: 407
Size:  15.0 KB

  59. #219
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    He is lucky that he is playing for India. Made a career ending idiocy - at 19 he was one of the proteges in Indian cricket, led U18, U19 & A team. He was destined to become an India regular once that fabulas 6 were done, had he been patient. Tried to hatch all eggs at one go - so joined ICL at less than 23 I guess. Had he waited for his time, could have been India No.4 after 2012 AUS tour.

  60. #220
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    Rayudu - Please retire yaar.. can't bear your torture

    This guy is bringing bad name to Indian batsmanship. We've always had elegant batsmen. Rayudu, such an eyesore!!!

  61. #221
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    Draft him into Test team ASAP.


    Eat, Sleep, Back The Team....Repeat!

  62. #222
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    How the heck does this thread got 3 pages.

    Isn't the answer obvious, NO!
    Last edited by aniket1911; 11th June 2016 at 21:57.

  63. #223
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    Better test bat than rohit

  64. #224
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    ODI version of YK..

  65. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by aniket1911 View Post
    How the heck does this thread got 3 pages.

    Isn't the answer obvious, NO!
    Check out the above posts from someone who was arguing with me in 2014.

    lol.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  66. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    He is lucky that he is playing for India. Made a career ending idiocy - at 19 he was one of the proteges in Indian cricket, led U18, U19 & A team. He was destined to become an India regular once that fabulas 6 were done, had he been patient. Tried to hatch all eggs at one go - so joined ICL at less than 23 I guess. Had he waited for his time, could have been India No.4 after 2012 AUS tour.
    There to more to the story of him joining ICL.

    Usual politics by a powerful administrator to promote his son over a prodigy. Ex India off spinner Shivlal Yadav, also chairman of Hyderabad Cricket association ,was hell bent to destroy Rayudu to help his son Arjun Yadav's career. Arjun, despite having a mediocre career, even played for India A. Rayudu did not get along with Arjun and was left out of Hyderabad team multiple times. Kept getting suspended for 'disciplinary issues'. In that frustration he joined ICL , then moved to Baroda due to Kiran More's influence. Did well for them, hit a brilliant 100 in Irani Trophy final in 2011-12, inpressed Sachin, joined MI, performed for them and got a chance to play for India.

  67. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandeep View Post
    Rayudu - Please retire yaar.. can't bear your torture

    This guy is bringing bad name to Indian batsmanship. We've always had elegant batsmen. Rayudu, such an eyesore!!!
    Thank God Steve Waugh did not play for India, otherwise the Indian fans would have called for his head too as he was not a "pretty" batsman by Indian lofty standards. Before people slam me for comparing rayudu and S Waugh, let me confirm, I was just talking about the comment made by the above poster about how ungainly a batsman looks while batting.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

  68. #228
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    There have been many players who could have been regulars for India but somehow just could not manage it for different reasons.. Badrinath, Tiwari, Rayudu, Dinesh Mongia, Parthiv Patel, Wasim Jaffar these are the ones that come to mind..

  69. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_gamer007 View Post
    There have been many players who could have been regulars for India but somehow just could not manage it for different reasons.. Badrinath, Tiwari, Rayudu, Dinesh Mongia, Parthiv Patel, Wasim Jaffar these are the ones that come to mind..
    Uthappa and SS Das say "hi". There are few more.

  70. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    He is lucky that he is playing for India. Made a career ending idiocy - at 19 he was one of the proteges in Indian cricket, led U18, U19 & A team. He was destined to become an India regular once that fabulas 6 were done, had he been patient. Tried to hatch all eggs at one go - so joined ICL at less than 23 I guess. Had he waited for his time, could have been India No.4 after 2012 AUS tour.
    DAMN, how long was he suspended for ?

  71. #231
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    14,515
    Mentioned
    69 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Legend now has 1055 runs at 50.23 in ODIs #BeatThat #Beast #BestEver?

  72. #232
    Debut
    Feb 2015
    Venue
    Peshawar
    Runs
    32,539
    Mentioned
    2039 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandeep View Post
    Legend now has 1055 runs at 50.23 in ODIs #BeatThat #Beast #BestEver?
    Haha an other Tendulkar under making


    Eat, Sleep, Back The Team....Repeat!

  73. #233
    Debut
    Apr 2016
    Runs
    156
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by giri26 View Post
    Thank God Steve Waugh did not play for India, otherwise the Indian fans would have called for his head too as he was not a "pretty" batsman by Indian lofty standards. Before people slam me for comparing rayudu and S Waugh, let me confirm, I was just talking about the comment made by the above poster about how ungainly a batsman looks while batting.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
    It not just ugly but his abilities seem limited he seem to have retrogressed from his young age. I remember reading carl hooper statement on this guy. I thought this guy was special but looks very ordinary. He struggled to score against better oppositions and he is in the mold of 90's cricketer his strike rate is bad. cant believe we had move kohli to 4 down to accommodate this guy.

  74. #234
    Debut
    Oct 2015
    Runs
    12,078
    Mentioned
    314 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    No.

  75. #235
    Debut
    Jun 2011
    Venue
    Hyderabad
    Runs
    14,515
    Mentioned
    69 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by #GreenRoars View Post
    Haha an other Tendulkar under making
    Tendulkar who? Apparently Bradman is shivering in his grave.

  76. #236
    Debut
    Nov 2013
    Venue
    Kerala
    Runs
    8,298
    Mentioned
    2197 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Thivagar View Post
    Uthappa and SS Das say "hi". There are few more.
    tbh Uthappa got his chance but just can't capitalise.


    ﺳُﺒْﺤَﺎﻥَ ﺍﻟﻠّﻪِ ﻭﺍﻟْﺤَﻤْﺪُﻟﻠّﻪِ ﻭَ ﻻ ﺍِﻟﻪَ ﺍِﻟَّﺎ ﺍﻟﻠّﻪُ ﻭَ ﺍﻟﻠّﻪُ ﺍَﻛْﺒَﺮُ
    PCL 3 FC CHAMPIONS | Loose Cannons CC | #CannonsFire

  77. #237
    Debut
    Feb 2018
    Runs
    2,131
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    In some good form. Does he deserve a comeback?

  78. #238
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    Sheffield
    Runs
    23,322
    Mentioned
    370 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Domestic bully.

  79. #239
    Debut
    Feb 2018
    Runs
    2,131
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Domestic bully.
    Averages 50+ in Intl. ODIs.

  80. #240
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    Sheffield
    Runs
    23,322
    Mentioned
    370 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Averages 50+ in Intl. ODIs.

    But still not selected even in LO squads.


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