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Thread: The days of Waqar vs Wasim

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  1. #1
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    The days of Waqar vs Wasim

    The days of Waqar versus Wasim


    Sandeep Dwivedi
    Posted online: Saturday, March 10, 2007 at 1651 hours IST

    Centurion, March 2, 2003: India had an unacknowledged helper in their emphatic win over Pakistan here on Saturday: the Pakistan team, which self-destructed in an act of epic proportions as team members collapsed on each other with a venom they should have saved for their opponents.

    Intrigue and backbiting have long been a part of the Pakistani game, the factions usually divided between those from Lahore and those from Karachi. Only the charismatic, regal Imran Khan could scramble together something akin to team unity.

    The team was split — almost down the line — between loyalty to Waqar Younis and Wasim Akram (and, apparently, only Inzamam was trusted by both as interlocutor). Those on Akram’s side were Azhar Mahmood, Shahid Afridi, Saeed Anwar, Mohammad Yusuf, Shoaib Akhtar and Saqlain Mushtaq. Indeed, before the tournament began the Pakistani media had widely reported that six senior players in the side had written to the Board about their unwillingness to play under Waqar for the the World Cup.

    Well, perhaps the PCB had taken it literally because some of them did not get much of a look-in in the tournament. All-rounder Azhar Mahmood, for one. And young tearaway pace bowler Mohammed Sami, whose path was blocked by the skipper. There was good news for Sami: Serious doubts were being raised over Waqar’s future, despite his 400-plus one-day wickets. But the main sticking point — and most visible on the field that day — was the breakdown of communications between Akram and Waqar. To put it bluntly, they did not talk to each other. As the Indians batsmen were launching their assault on the Pakistan bowling, the two veterans — with more than 600 ODIs between them — were speaking through Inzamam. So, when Akram didn’t like a particular fielding placement for his bowling, he would shout the instructions to Inzamam standing in the slips, who in turn would pass the message to the skipper.

    And, as the game slipped away and the tempers rose, Inzamam could be seen on more than one occasion standing between the two warhorses. All this would have been a treat for the Indian batsmen. But worse was to come. Shahid Afridi, unhappy with a field placing, chose to complain to Akram rather than consult his skipper. And then bowled a leg line though Waqar had packed the off-side.

    The troubles were not just on the field. The Pakistan board had given strict instructions that spouses wouldn’t be allowed to accompany the players. The first person to break the rule was Saqlain Mushtaq, who checked his wife in at a hotel near where the team was staying. This was followed by Waqar and Afridi following suit, adding fuel to the already burning camp. When Pakistan’s British coach Richard Pybus was asked about the difficulties of keeping together this talented but unpredictable side all he said — with typical droll humour — was “One thing is sure, it never gets boring”.

    A former Pakistan international, now an ICC official, revealed an interesting conversation with his country’s World Cuppers in South Africa. “I had asked the players about their ambitions during the tournament. Shoaib spoke about reaching the 100mph mark, Akram told me about his goal of taking 500 wickets. No one talked about winning the Cup,” he said.

    link: http://www.expressindia.com/news/ful...p?newsid=82749

    comments: Well i do remmember a PCB official who worked under Tauqir Zia coming on Geo Super and actually revealing on Bolain Kya Baat Hai that the PCB then asked the ICC whether they can appoint Wasim Akram as captain for the 2003 WC but the ICC said no based on the recommendations of the Malik Qayyum 2000 report. He also spoke that there was a players revolt against Waqar Younis and 6-8 players were hurriedly called to Lahore to defuse the volatile situation before things got public, apparently these 6-8 players had blatantly refused to play under Waqar but had no choice in the end as Wasim couldnt be appointed Captain.

    Sad our players put their own differences and interests above the team.
    Last edited by Savak; 21st June 2008 at 07:09.

  2. #2
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    interesting bit of info... makes me want to watch the 2003 WC again..the pak matches in particular

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by YusufPathan
    interesting bit of info... makes me want to watch the 2003 WC again..the pak matches in particular
    Yeah the first one is pretty good

  4. #4
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    This is what i meant when i said that both Wasim-Waqar just sent the wrong message and set the wrong example for the youngsters back then when it came to developing team unity, an example of establishing a strong working relationship irrespective of personal differences for the good of the country. I think their interpersonal rivalry was just not used in the right direction and did a lot more harm and damage to our cricket in the long run in comparison to the Imran-Miandad rivalry (where both these guys put the country first before anything else).

    Honestly speaking both these guys especially Wasim have no right to be bashing Akhtar and Asif beyond a certain limit.

  5. #5
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    Its really sad isnt it ? !
    That WC itwas obvious that our team was not united and they playe below par. Ots so sad to hear these things. i mean these guys take no pride in playing for their country. . . . playing for millions of fans !

  6. #6
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    It was all started when Wasim and Waqar were appointed as captain and VC .Quite a premature decision that was by PCB .The main ego clash started from that point of time.And it did cause some serious damage as well.

    Yes ,Wasim and Waqar has no right to speak about team unity and harmony .

    However team politics and autocratic ways have started from Imran Khan ,he was successful in that way .However the message sent wasn't that perfect .And the problems arised when his prodigies tried to emulate him .
    Last edited by siddharth; 21st June 2008 at 16:33.

  7. #7
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    I remember towards the end of the India match Wasim and Waqar were talking to each other, however it was in such a way that a by-passer wouldnt know who was captaining who!

    Tough times... lets get back to talking about Malik & YK's golden relationship in Dhaka : )

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by siddharth
    It was all started when Wasim and Waqar were appointed as captain and VC .Quite a premature decision that was by PCB .The main ego clash started from that point of time.And it did cause some serious damage as well.

    Yes ,Wasim and Waqar has no right to speak about team unity and harmony .

    However team politics and autocratic ways have started from Imran Khan ,he was successful in that way .However the message sent wasn't that perfect .And the problems arised when his prodigies tried to emulate him .
    Personality and ego clashes occur everywhere, but the difference is how you handle it and how you go about things, do you do the honorouble thing by giving a 100% for everyone, looking at the big picture instead of personal grudges come in the way. The Imran-Miandad rivalry was much bigger and much worse than any in our history. They used to hate each others guts, people used to say that Miandad used to be the smart tactician in the squad and used to devise all the strategies but it was Imran who complemented everything with his superb leadership skills. But Imran and Miandad have set a wonderful example, superb, legendary they both had one thing in common their love for the motherland, their country and that came on top of all their petty differences and feuds. They both tolerated and respected each other's presence, used their professional jealousy to the teams advantage and Pakistan Cricket was the end winner.

    Wasim and Waqar just took it in the other direction. I agree it all started with Waqar's revolt against Akram. Mind you Waqar at that time apparently had the same attitude as Shoaib Akhtar, outlined in Wasim's autobiography, things like coming late for team meatings, having an arrogant attitude, thinking that he was bigger than everyone else e.t.c. But he was young and ofcourse everyone makes mistakes, but that revolt was one of the worst chapters in our cricketing history and clearly raised discontent b/w Wasim, Waqar. Both had stopped talking to each other other than the occassional hi, hello. Someone really needed to mediate b/w them and get them to bury the hatchet. Personally i feel Wasim never forgave ever forgave Waqar for the revolt in 1993. Here Pakistan cricket suffered. They got the others involved in politics as well. Sad really.

  9. #9
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    From the Observer newspaper - London 27th June 99

    Spies trail high-living Pakistani cricketers to casino By Denis Campbell, Kevin Mitchell and Jason Burke Sunday June 27, 1999

    Pakistan secret agents spied on the country`s cricketers as they drank, partied and gambled late into the night before their extraordinary collapse in last week`s Cricket World Cup final. The players are now being investigated for unprofessional behaviour and allegedly `throwing` matches, including the final against

    Australia. The Observer can reveal that the entire squad was tailed amid fears that their behaviour could taint

    the competition.

    Pakistan`s anti-corruption squad has launched an inquiry into repeated late-night visits by team members to casinos and nightclubs. Players gambled and drank alcohol, both of which are forbidden by Islamic law, and flouted team curfews during their late-night revelry.

    One senior player, batsman Ijaz Ahmed, was in the Barracuda casino in central London at 3.50am last Saturday morning, less than 36 hours before Sunday`s final. The team also enjoyed nights out at the Palm Beach casino in Mayfair.

    Investigators are focusing on the team`s abysmal showing in the final at Lord`s. Pakistan looked tired and uninspired as they slumped to 132 all out after only 39 of their 50 overs.

    The result prompted claims that Pakistan, who have recently been involved in several match-fixing scandals, had been bribed to lose.

    Astonishment, anger and disgust greeted the result and when the players returned home last week they were branded `gamblers and traitors`. An angry crowd at Karachi airport pelted them with eggs.

    Pakistan`s earlier defeats by arch-rivals India and lowly Bangladesh are also being examined, as are `charges against the players` conduct and character`.

    Three senior players, including captain Wasim Akram, Salim Malik and Ijaz Ahmed, are already the subject of a long-running inquiry into links between cricketers and illegal

    bookmakers that began in 1995 after Shane Warne, Mark Waugh and Tim May of Australia claimed Salim had offered a bribe to throw a match.

    Secret service agents from Pakistan`s Intelligence Bureau covertly monitored players` movements during the six-week tournament. Players were

    tailed after suspicions that they had not tried hard enough in a warm-up match against England in Sharjah last month.

    During the World Cup, Pakistan players were observed indulging in what the anti-corruption bureau called `merry-making`.

    Senator Saifur Rehman, head of the bureau, told The Observer it had received information that `a number of squad members did not follow the proper procedures laid down by the management. They were having late nights and engaging in a number of extracurricular activities.

    `They were in nightclubs and in different places in the evenings. We have intelligence that they were going there regularly.` Rehman confirmed that gambling expeditions and the consumption of alcohol were also being investigated.

    The team`s official curfew, of 10pm or 10.30pm, was regularly broken. Players often returned to their hotel in the early hours. Rehman, a close aide to Pakistan`s Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, has appointed a senior officer to conduct the inquiry.

    The officer suggested that the match-fixing claims may have substance when he said the players were believed `not to have acted professionally when they went on to the field.

    `There are also reports that they were not physically and mentally fit when on the ground or on their rest days.`

    Pakistan team manager Zafar Altaf said claims of match-rigging were `baseless`. Wasim yesterday insisted there had been `no indecent

    behaviour whatsoever before the final. Everyone was behaving themselves`.

    But former Pakistan fast bowler Sarfraz Nawaz, who is renowned for exposing match-rigging, said he was sure several Pakistan games,

    including the final, were `fixed`.

    Additional reporting: Nicole Veash

    link: http://www.chowk.com/interacts/4581
    http://www.expressindia.com/news/ie/.../isp28002.html

    comments: Shocking, absolutely shocking. All this before the wc final? An opportunity of a lifetime. These players should have their records removed from their books.
    Last edited by Savak; 21st June 2008 at 17:24.

  10. #10
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    Those look sauce news.Wasim told how crowded was the dressing room in that final day .Each and every one was there ,including officials ,news men ,fans he couldn't even talk to his team members properly .Each and every one became so nervous and suddenly became overwhelmed by the over the top support .Especially his young players .

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    The Wasim and Waqar "differences" were always highlighted when Pakistan lost.

    The interesting thing is that when the team were doing well and winning matches the divide in the team was never mentioned.

    Personally I dont think the divide was as big as some would like to think. Sure the 2Ws werent the best of mates and didnt always see eye to eye, but both always gave their all to the cause of the team.



  12. #12
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    I did like the bit where they wouldn't stop the ball going to the boundary if the other was bowling.

    But seriously, they are both all time greats so what if they didn't get along?

    Bad idea by PCB to make one or both captain though

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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Aussie
    I did like the bit where they wouldn't stop the ball going to the boundary if the other was bowling.

    But seriously, they are both all time greats so what if they didn't get along?

    Bad idea by PCB to make one or both captain though
    Not really, Wasim was one of the better captains we've ever had

    Its quite obvious to us Pakistani cricket fans that Wasim and Waqar were never friends, nor were they cooperating team-mates. But I think that, in a strange sort of way, benefited Pakistan for a period in the 90's, when both would strive to better the other... often resulting in relentless torment for the poor batsman of the opposition!

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    Afridi was being targeted by Waqar a lot during that WC, as the former was one of the main henchmen of Wasim. When Symonds started his assault in his brilliant 143, Afridi pleaded with his skipper to take him off as the Australian who had gotten into such great nick looked to have sorted his bowling, but Waqar did not listen to that. As Shahid told me a few months later, Waqar point blank refused and simply ordered, "Tum hee karaao gge bowling!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farhad
    Afridi was being targeted by Waqar a lot during that WC, as the former was one of the main henchmen of Wasim. When Symonds started his assault in his brilliant 143, Afridi pleaded with his skipper to take him off as the Australian who had gotten into such great nick looked to have sorted his bowling, but Waqar did not listen to that. As Shahid told me a few months later, Waqar point blank refused and simply ordered, "Tum hee karaao gge bowling!"
    afridi...pleading....those 2 words in the same sentence lol intresting

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sohailalam
    afridi...pleading....those 2 words in the same sentence lol intresting
    well, yah...to his skipper to take him off bowling as he did not have rhythm and Simmo looked murderous to say the least.


    Anyhow on this very issue, of putting self before national fortunes, players punished for their shameful acts in matchfixing saga - big major players like The Two Ws and Inzamam look character and national pyjmies as compared to the likes of Imran and Miandad. The 80s duo would die for their country and wuld never indulge in anything so shameful as matchfixing, even according to Viv in his Autobiography. The two had personal problems with each other but never let it get into damaging the national cause.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farhad
    well, yah...to his skipper to take him off bowling as he did not have rhythm and Simmo looked murderous to say the least.


    Anyhow on this very issue, of putting self before national fortunes, players punished for their shameful acts in matchfixing saga - big major players like The Two Ws and Inzamam look character and national pyjmies as compared to the likes of Imran and Miandad. The 80s duo would die for their country and wuld never indulge in anything so shameful as matchfixing, even according to Viv in his Autobiography. The two had personal problems with each other but never let it get into damaging the national cause.
    True, Imran and Miandad never let their problems get in the way of the team's overall cause. They both had one thing in common, the desire to win matches for Pakistan. But the 2 W's politics have damaged our cricket really badly and they just set the wrong example for the youngsters in that regard.

    Hahahaha Afridi crying, i dont believe it. How can a player go upto a captain and say i dont want to bowl anymore? Sounds wierd, i dont imagine anyone with some self respect would do that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak
    True, Imran and Miandad never let their problems get in the way of the team's overall cause. They both had one thing in common, the desire to win matches for Pakistan. But the 2 W's politics have damaged our cricket really badly and they just set the wrong example for the youngsters in that regard.

    Hahahaha Afridi crying, i dont believe it. How can a player go upto a captain and say i dont want to bowl anymore? Sounds wierd, i dont imagine anyone with some self respect would do that.
    The beast was scared of the bigger beast


    'Ya of course'

  19. #19
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    I think Afridi was pleading with Waqar for Waqar's sake. It probably wen't something like this "Please don't make me angry Waqar....you wouldn't like me when I'm angry."

    On the topic at hand. I have to agree with a previous poster who said its a bit over exaggerated. The Wasim-Waqar rivalry was in many ways also good for the team, because they always wanted to out-do each other when bowling, and many times that only benefitted the team.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Showman
    I think Afridi was pleading with Waqar for Waqar's sake. It probably wen't something like this "Please don't make me angry Waqar....you wouldn't like me when I'm angry."

    On the topic at hand. I have to agree with a previous poster who said its a bit over exaggerated. The Wasim-Waqar rivalry was in many ways also good for the team, because they always wanted to out-do each other when bowling, and many times that only benefitted the team.
    I think it did more harm in the sense that they got the junior players involved in all these politics and thus they had to choose sides between the two. It wasnt overexaggerated, these WC 2003 incidents were true, the PCB tried to replace Waqar as captain but because Wasim couldnt be appointed they had to stick to Waqar. Both the W's were involved in politics against each other and the team environment for that WC was extremely poor and full of politics.

    In reality both the Imran-Miandad and Wasim-Waqar rivalry damaged our cricket badly in the long run. But the only difference is that Imran-Miandad wanted Pakistan to win in the end, while for the two W's i just cannot say the same, especially for Wasim.

  21. #21
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    Totally exaggerated article, think back to the first match of WC03, Wasim has Gilchrist caught by Waqar.

    Watch the dismissal & celebration yourself;
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evqBCSZdhzw

    Now the WC03 India game, Waqar dismisses Ganguly first ball, watch Wasim;(at 02:52)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OgzYu2fRVk

    I'm not denying the two had a history between them but they were civilised and did put Pakistan first. The truth is Pakistan were just not in form.

    Also watch Pioneers of cricket, the one based on Wasim. Waqar is talking about Wasim and talks about the revolt all those years ago and how they have put it behind them and are good friends now.

  22. #22
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    Aaah WC 2003, I remember how much dejected we were on Pakistan performance. How we thought that end was near, everything was going down the hill...:-(

    Only to find out that our team further "improved" its performance in WC 2007...... Now WC2003 team looks like a champion :-)

  23. #23
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    i must @dmit personnel wise I thought the WC2003 w@s one of the strongest squ@ds we've feilded for @ long time!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by KA$H
    i must @dmit personnel wise I thought the WC2003 w@s one of the strongest squ@ds we've feilded for @ long time!
    Yup it was the strongest Pakistani Squad to ever play in a WC. No doubt key players were the hill for e.g. W's, Saeed Anwar was still finding his groove back, Saqlain had been out of form for so long e.t.c. I doubt whether Waqar would have even been picked had he not been captain, Wasim was still a good bowler. But my opinion was the 2 W's just werent the same any more, Wasim was still better than Waqar, more skill, craft, but Waqar used to depend on his pace, once that was gone, he learnt how to use the new ball, basically he became a new ball bowler and lost his abilities with the new ball. Wasim was still good with the new and old ball but because of the decline in speed he wasnt going to be the same guy he was 5-6 years ago.

    Pakistan needed fresh blood, we needed pacers who could deliver in all situations. I think Waqar blundered by giving Shoaib the new ball and not taking the new ball himself and he rendered himself a little bit weaker. No doubt Waqar got Pakistan the breakthrough's but after words he just wasnt threatening enough and i rarely saw him complete his full quota of overs.

    Eventually the players just didnt play to their potential. Many players like Afridi, Akhtar, Razzaq said in interviews in the later years that the team environment was so so poor and unhealthy that people just wanted to come home and they were just any second from exploding on each other. Shoaib in his interview said it wasnt Waqar's fault totally and there were other parties to blame as well. Team Politics, i never trusted Wasim personally, i think he was the biggest politician in the squad, my gut feeling is he tried to undermine Waqar every step of the way, even getting the juniors to gang up against him. This is why i feel the Wasim-Waqar rivalry was very damaging to our team in the long run.

  25. #25
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    Remember this stuff. Find it really laughable to see the W's talk about team manners, team ethics, unity, discipline today as analysts.

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