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  1. #1
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    US created Taliban and abandoned Pakistan: Clinton

    WASHINGTON: Two days of continuous congressional hearings on the Obama administration’s foreign policy brought a rare concession from US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton who acknowledged that the United States too had a share in creating the problem that plagues Pakistan today.

    In an appearance before a subcommittee of the House Appropriations Committee on Thursday, Mrs Clinton explained how the militancy in Pakistan was linked to the US-backed proxy war against the Soviets in Afghanistan.

    ‘We can point fingers at the Pakistanis. I did some yesterday frankly. And it’s merited because we are wondering why they just don’t go out there and deal with these people,’ said Mrs Clinton while referring to an earlier hearing in which she said that Pakistan posed a ‘mortal threat’ to the world.

    ‘But the problems we face now to some extent we have to take responsibility for, having contributed to it. We also have a history of kind of moving in and out of Pakistan,’ she said.

    ‘Let’s remember here… the people we are fighting today we funded them twenty years ago… and we did it because we were locked in a struggle with the Soviet Union.’

    ‘They invaded Afghanistan… and we did not want to see them control Central Asia and we went to work… and it was President Reagan in partnership with Congress led by Democrats who said you know what it sounds like a pretty good idea… let’s deal with the ISI and the Pakistan military and let’s go recruit these mujahideen.’

    ‘And great, let them come from Saudi Arabia and other countries, importing their Wahabi brand of Islam so that we can go beat the Soviet Union.’

    ‘And guess what … they (Soviets) retreated … they lost billions of dollars and it led to the collapse of the Soviet Union.’

    ‘So there is a very strong argument which is… it wasn’t a bad investment in terms of Soviet Union but let’s be careful with what we sow… because we will harvest.’

    ‘So we then left Pakistan … We said okay fine you deal with the Stingers that we left all over your country… you deal with the mines that are along the border and… by the way we don’t want to have anything to do with you… in fact we’re sanctioning you… So we stopped dealing with the Pakistani military and with ISI and we now are making up for a lot of lost time.’

    It was question from Congressman Adam Shciff, a California Democrat that spurred Secretary Clinton to delve into history and come out with an answer that other US politicians have avoided in the past.

    The congressman noted that while the US had provided ‘a phenomenal amount of military support for Pakistan,’ they had not changed the paradigm.

    ‘And more pernicious, there are elements within the Pakistani intelligence services, the ISI that may be working at cross-purposes with us.’

    ‘How we can possibly be funding the Pakistani military if elements of the military or intelligence services are actually working against us and having the effect of killing our troops next door?’ he asked.

    http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/...clinton--bi-06

  2. #2
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    Who does not know this? This is not even a news.

  3. #3
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    ^it is for some people....

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by kasoo10
    Who does not know this? This is not even a news.
    Its not news but a reminder that the US is responsible in creating this problem. Super powers like Soviet Union and the US were engaged in a proxy war, leaving Pakistan and Afghanistan to suffer the consequences. What kind of justice is this?

    Now look what's happening. It's sad that this world is dictated by the 1% elite who have power and money.

  5. #5
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    This is news. Yes, everyone is aware of the it however how many times has the US government said okay we had a hand in it? this also goes to show not everyone in the US is going to follow the same policy which some of us believe is to simply hurt Pakistan.

    I believe the US is moving toward fixing some of the problems they might have created in the past or contributed to them. Their approach might not the best hence the Pakistanis need to provide support and results. So they can tell the us well...stop the drone attack and we will tackle with this problem.

    The problem we have is...some of us don't want our army to do anything against these people while we don't want the US to stop the drone attacks. We won't agree to having US special forces conduct operations in Pakistan openly so they can avoid innocent lives and only target whom they are coming after.

    Sad as this might be...I believe taliban need to move into our major cities for our people to wake up. Then perhaps like MQM...taliban for perhaps the first time will find out...they are not the only ones armed and able to kill.

    There is a reason you don't find pathans in mirpur or Kashimir cause the people won't let them buy a house there. After years I am thinking they have made the right choice.


    time to do great things.

  6. #6
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    ‘So there is a very strong argument which is… it wasn’t a bad investment in terms of Soviet Union but let’s be careful with what we sow… because we will harvest.’

    ‘So we then left Pakistan … We said okay fine you deal with the Stingers that we left all over your country… you deal with the mines that are along the border and… by the way we don’t want to have anything to do with you… in fact we’re sanctioning you… So we stopped dealing with the Pakistani military and with ISI and we now are making up for a lot of lost time.’
    For posters like @OoparCut with no idea of history.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mian View Post
    For posters like @OoparCut with no idea of history.
    Buddy, I am well aware of the history. I've read both of Steve Coll's books on the Afghan war. And read the first one years before it was picked up to make a movie.

    1980s was a time when US basically gave Pakistan a blank check - in terms of aid, in terms of freedom to run whatever operations it wanted to in Af-Pak and even against India. This attitude stayed consistent well into the 1990s as well. In fact, when Indian govt sent the detonators and fragments of timers used in the 1993 bomb attacks to the FBI lab for analysis - after their counterparts in belgium already confirmed that some components of the bombs were NATO munitions, the FBI somehow "lost the samples".

    Sure, Pakistan had to deal with the consequences of the Afghan war, but it benefited massively from it as well. And even the most hard-core pro-Pakistan patriot would have to admit, that Pakistan totally mismanaged the 1990s and the aftermath of the war. It held a winning hand in Afghanistan, but it tried to leverage it and use it for its Kashmir obsession. Now you are faced with a situation where you made zero progress on Kashmir, and your winning hand in Afghanistan is converted into a crappy one.

    Can't really blame anybody else for that. Any poster with 'an idea of history' would know this.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by OoparCut View Post
    Buddy, I am well aware of the history. I've read both of Steve Coll's books on the Afghan war. And read the first one years before it was picked up to make a movie.

    1980s was a time when US basically gave Pakistan a blank check - in terms of aid, in terms of freedom to run whatever operations it wanted to in Af-Pak and even against India. This attitude stayed consistent well into the 1990s as well. In fact, when Indian govt sent the detonators and fragments of timers used in the 1993 bomb attacks to the FBI lab for analysis - after their counterparts in belgium already confirmed that some components of the bombs were NATO munitions, the FBI somehow "lost the samples".

    Sure, Pakistan had to deal with the consequences of the Afghan war, but it benefited massively from it as well. And even the most hard-core pro-Pakistan patriot would have to admit, that Pakistan totally mismanaged the 1990s and the aftermath of the war. It held a winning hand in Afghanistan, but it tried to leverage it and use it for its Kashmir obsession. Now you are faced with a situation where you made zero progress on Kashmir, and your winning hand in Afghanistan is converted into a crappy one.

    Can't really blame anybody else for that. Any poster with 'an idea of history' would know this.
    Yes you are so good with history you are blaming Pakistan for 9/11 in another thread lol Pakistan wasn't even remotely linked with 9/11 except sharing a border with the country where Laden was a guest of Taliban govt. Even those Talibans were ready to hand over laden to a 3rd country in case there is a fair trial but uncle sam had other plans and it was never about terrorism so give me a break from all this ** about war on terrorism and uncle sams plans to save humanity.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mian View Post
    Yes you are so good with history you are blaming Pakistan for 9/11 in another thread lol Pakistan wasn't even remotely linked with 9/11 except sharing a border with the country where Laden was a guest of Taliban govt. Even those Talibans were ready to hand over laden to a 3rd country in case there is a fair trial but uncle sam had other plans and it was never about terrorism so give me a break from all this ** about war on terrorism and uncle sams plans to save humanity.
    I don't blame Pakistan directly for 9/11. But Pakistan is definitely responsible for creating and sustaining an environment in Afghanistan and Pakistan all through the 1990s, that allowed armed terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda and others to openly grow, consolidate, train, fund-raise. That is a policy decision that can't be blamed on India or USA.

    OSama Bin Laden was a wanted terrorist even before the 9/11 attacks. Anybody who cares to know, will know that Osama got Kidney treatment done in Pakistani military hospital in the days before 9/11. Why was that? Did Uncle Sam ask you to do that as part of the Afghan War in 1985? Come on now. Let's not perpetuate a kindergarten version of fake history.

  10. #10
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    Indians forget Bin Laden was working with the CIA and was on their payroll, that is until after Afghanistan war.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    Indians forget Bin Laden was working with the CIA and was on their payroll, that is until after Afghanistan war.
    And that Taliban govt was ready to hand him over for fair trial but uncle sam had war plans.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mian View Post
    And that Taliban govt was ready to hand him over for fair trial but uncle sam had war plans.
    Exactly.

    This isn't even hype, it's all documented by Uncle Sam!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    Indians forget Bin Laden was working with the CIA and was on their payroll, that is until after Afghanistan war.
    Did the CIA work with bin laden for the embassy bombings in Africa? Why did Bill Clinton attack Bin Laden in 1998 with missiles? He was a designated terrorist, who was getting VIP treatment in Pakistani military hospitals, right until a couple of days before 9/11.

    So this whole story of how bin laden was on CIA payroll, skips about 15 years of meaningful history.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by OoparCut View Post
    Did the CIA work with bin laden for the embassy bombings in Africa? Why did Bill Clinton attack Bin Laden in 1998 with missiles? He was a designated terrorist, who was getting VIP treatment in Pakistani military hospitals, right until a couple of days before 9/11.

    So this whole story of how bin laden was on CIA payroll, skips about 15 years of meaningful history.
    You missed the point. OBL was working with CIA to further USA agenda. Once complete, OBL turned bogeyman. The rest is history - before and including the 15 years of meaningful propaganda you refer to. CAUSE and EFFECT.

    It is a rinse and repeat pattern with the USA.

    Evidence OBL was in a Pakistani hospital days before 9/11?

  15. #15
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    People need to read/watch Charlie Wilsons War.

  16. #16
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    While the US may have "created" the Taliban, it is not as if the Pakistani Army/ISI were little children. There were many actors in this wretched coalition that has caused so much conflict in the world, and undoubtedly one of the worst sufferers are Pakistanis.

    Essentially, the US and its Pakistani allies thought they could use the Taliban to serve their purposes. What they did not realize is that once you create such a political organization, it doesn't want to have a secular entity as its master.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by OoparCut View Post
    Buddy, I am well aware of the history. I've read both of Steve Coll's books on the Afghan war. And read the first one years before it was picked up to make a movie.

    1980s was a time when US basically gave Pakistan a blank check - in terms of aid, in terms of freedom to run whatever operations it wanted to in Af-Pak and even against India. This attitude stayed consistent well into the 1990s as well. In fact, when Indian govt sent the detonators and fragments of timers used in the 1993 bomb attacks to the FBI lab for analysis - after their counterparts in belgium already confirmed that some components of the bombs were NATO munitions, the FBI somehow "lost the samples".

    Sure, Pakistan had to deal with the consequences of the Afghan war, but it benefited massively from it as well. And even the most hard-core pro-Pakistan patriot would have to admit, that Pakistan totally mismanaged the 1990s and the aftermath of the war. It held a winning hand in Afghanistan, but it tried to leverage it and use it for its Kashmir obsession. Now you are faced with a situation where you made zero progress on Kashmir, and your winning hand in Afghanistan is converted into a crappy one.

    Can't really blame anybody else for that. Any poster with 'an idea of history' would know this.

    I have often wondered about the amount of money Us had given to Pakistan during this 80’s time period. Though the exact amounts are subject to discussion. I have read some sources that it was enough money in the billions to transform Pakistan into an economic powerhouse in the same vein as Israel, U.K. Unfortunately one can only imagine if it wasn’t for the corrupt Pakistani leaders at the time that used the Us aid for their own corrupt needs and whatever else was was left to be used to just create terror cells and make life a living hell for India due to the misguided Kashmir agenda, Pakistan could have used it to help itself and be something a lot more than what it is today.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snak3eye5 View Post
    I have read some sources that it was enough money in the billions to transform Pakistan into an economic powerhouse in the same vein as Israel, U.K.
    Unless it was $500 billion or more (~1 trillion in current dollars), that's not true.


    Fauj ka jo yaar hay, mulk ka ghaddar hay,
    Ye jo dehshatgardi hay, is kay peechay wardi hay.

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