Instagram


Sohail Speaks Yasir's Blog Fazeer's Focus

User Tag List

View Poll Results: Should Malik be in the plans for the 2019 WC?

Voters
421. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    189 44.89%
  • No

    212 50.36%
  • Unsure

    20 4.75%
Page 10 of 161 FirstFirst ... 891011122060110 ... LastLast
Results 721 to 800 of 12802
  1. #721
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by taaveez View Post
    ^^ Congrats. I see Clarke has a better record than him and he himself wants to give it to White.
    SM and Clarke, both got same Win%age.
    Nothing wrong with either's captaincy. Both top notch tacticians.

    If Clarke "wants" to give it to someone else, then it has nothing to do with captaincy credentials and instead to do with his personal performance.

    Personal performance: another reason for supporting Malik.

  2. #722
    Debut
    Sep 2009
    Runs
    2,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Anwaar View Post
    SM and Clarke, both got same Win%age.
    Nothing wrong with either's captaincy. Both top notch tacticians.

    If Clarke "wants" to give it to someone else, then it has nothing to do with captaincy credentials and instead to do with his personal performance.

    Personal performance: another reason for supporting Malik.
    One of them is not even being bothered to be asked to captain. Seems like a lot of folks agree with your "tactics" assessment.

    And, so you agree that personal performance is more valued than captaincy record? For some reason I only see the captaincy records being shown here. Is there another episode that we should wait for before switching the channel?

  3. #723
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by taaveez View Post
    For some reason I only see the captaincy records being shown here. Is there another episode that we should wait for before switching the channel?
    Well I started with ODIs couple of months ago, then came tests stats, was still doing test stats and issue of Captaincy emerged. So I presented Malik's captaincy record (coincidently, Lawson endorsed this assessment) .

    As Captaincy issue resolved (for now), so I'll continue with test stats (next weekend, hopefully).

  4. #724
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by taaveez View Post

    And, so you agree that personal performance is more valued than captaincy record?
    No I do not agree that it is a rule.

    I believe it depends on the situation of the match.

    i.e. MoYo $%^&* team single handedly.

  5. #725
    Debut
    Sep 2009
    Runs
    2,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Anwaar View Post
    No I do not agree that it is a rule.

    I believe it depends on the situation of the match.

    i.e. MoYo $%^&* team single handedly.
    So, let me get this straight. Clarke should be stripped of captaincy or Malik should be given the captaincy midway through a match because of the "situation"?

  6. #726
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by taaveez View Post
    So, let me get this straight. Clarke should be stripped of captaincy or Malik should be given the captaincy midway through a match because of the "situation"?
    Malik and Clarke, both are good captains. I haven't seen many blunders by them.

    Stripping officially midway through match would be vulgar.

    "I wouldn't appreciate it but I'll understand if power transfer happens under the hood in extreme cases."

  7. #727
    Debut
    Sep 2009
    Runs
    2,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Anwaar View Post
    Malik and Clarke, both are good captains. I haven't seen many blunders by them.
    I think you'll find that Malik has no blunders because he doesn't do anything as a captain. Let alone make blunders.

    Anyone wanna venture a guess who the captain was at the moment this happened?


  8. #728
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by taaveez View Post
    I think you'll find that Malik has no blunders because he doesn't do anything as a captain.

    Anyone wanna venture a guess who the captain was at the moment this happened?

    If you are looking for "Moving fingers through beard or Chewing gum fiercely" then of course he doesn't do "anything"!

    If you interested in supporting Razzaq, open a support thread for him and we would contribute to it there.

  9. #729
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    In Response to S.Rajesh

    S. Rajesh recent article is about "Pakistan's huge middle-order loss"

    For most part article is well composed but I think he over-did a bit.

    Here I would like to address his this para:

    "While Pakistan's strength over the last five-and-a-half years has been their batsmen at positions three to five, their opening combinations and their No. 6 batsmen have hardly kept pace. At No. 6, Pakistan's batting average is an ordinary 32.04, and only West Indies, New Zealand and Bangladesh have done worse. Pakistan have tried 11 batsmen at that position, but most of them have struggled. Shoaib Malik's 19 innings have fetched only one century, and an average of 34, while Faisal Iqbal's 10 innings brought him meagre returns of 184 runs."

    My objections are:
    - His article is mainly focused on positions 3-4-5 and suddenly diverted to position 6 and then to Malik where his main position is #7.
    - If he wanted to criticize Malik of low average at #6 then he should be fair and mention Malik's average at #4 and #5, as this was the main topic of his number game.

    Malik has been the victim of witch hunt for over ten years.
    He just played 29 tests in a career which spans over 10 years.
    He played as an opener, at #4, #5, #6 and #7.
    Even he was asked to play different positions in very same matches.

    Malik has average of 24.28 @#7, 34.47 @#6
    We already talked in detail about his average as an opener (42.60 Third highest among Pakistani openers)

    Lets see what's Malik's average on the most important slots of #4 and #5:



    S. Rajesh missed to say "Play Malik at #4 / #5 and it would resolve Pakistan middle order problems"

  10. #730
    Debut
    Sep 2009
    Runs
    2,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Anwaar View Post
    S. Rajesh missed to say "Play Malik at #4 / #5 and it would resolve Pakistan middle order problems"
    No, S Rajesh wasn't dumb enough to waste his time on players who played 2 joke innings on these respective positions, including a not out each.

    In case you missed, he qualified his list by requiring the accumulation of 1,500 runs in these positions. Malik the 36-averager has 1,500 runs in his entire 10-year career!

  11. #731
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,790
    Mentioned
    64 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Anwaar View Post
    S. Rajesh recent article is about "Pakistan's huge middle-order loss"

    For most part article is well composed but I think he over-did a bit.

    Here I would like to address his this para:

    "While Pakistan's strength over the last five-and-a-half years has been their batsmen at positions three to five, their opening combinations and their No. 6 batsmen have hardly kept pace. At No. 6, Pakistan's batting average is an ordinary 32.04, and only West Indies, New Zealand and Bangladesh have done worse. Pakistan have tried 11 batsmen at that position, but most of them have struggled. Shoaib Malik's 19 innings have fetched only one century, and an average of 34, while Faisal Iqbal's 10 innings brought him meagre returns of 184 runs."

    My objections are:
    - His article is mainly focused on positions 3-4-5 and suddenly diverted to position 6 and then to Malik where his main position is #7.
    - If he wanted to criticize Malik of low average at #6 then he should be fair and mention Malik's average at #4 and #5, as this was the main topic of his number game.

    Malik has been the victim of witch hunt for over ten years.
    He just played 29 tests in a career which spans over 10 years.
    He played as an opener, at #4, #5, #6 and #7.
    Even he was asked to play different positions in very same matches.

    Malik has average of 24.28 @#7, 34.47 @#6
    We already talked in detail about his average as an opener (42.60 Third highest among Pakistani openers)

    Lets see what's Malik's average on the most important slots of #4 and #5:



    S. Rajesh missed to say "Play Malik at #4 / #5 and it would resolve Pakistan middle order problems"
    He hasn't batted much at 4 and 5. Most of his batting especially recently has been 6 and 7, where he's largely failed. He has played at 4 and 5 two times respectively. His average at both 4 and 5 is higher than his highest score (which is 50 or something in each, the other score in each around 10) due to a not out in each. You can not say Malik would be excellent for the role of no.4 and 5 based on such few tests. Plus playing at 6 is unlikely to be that much different from 5 (as our best batsmen, the ones likely to bat for longer have been at no.3 and 4 anyway).

    Malik will never be a better batsman than Younis Khan in tests. Younis has better technique, and is basically the better batsman. These sort of stat arguments you use, you could use on Ian bell for example (his average is around 55 at 5 and 6 I believe) to say he's the best batsman in the England team, but few would agree really.

    Younis's best position is at 3 which he averages the most. He's been invaluable for Pakistan at that position.

    He's well within his rights to focus on criticising malik at no.6 as that's the position he plays at most. The position he takes up at the moment is a middle order batsmen which he has failed at. IF you are able to bat at no.4 and 5, you will usually be able to bat at 6. Batting at no.6 is easier than higher up the order, which is why often debutants bat there. Younis Khan himself started off lower down the order, established himself and then moved up to no.3. He did not start at no.3 he was allowed to develop as a batsman and then played there.

    Opening is a different matter all together, batting middle order and opening are two different things. If he wants to play as an opener, then give him the opener position. I have no arguments there.

    Batsman get moved all the time in their line up early in their careers. He has been mostly played at these positions, 1, 6 and 7.

  12. #732
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,790
    Mentioned
    64 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Also bear in mind that Younis khan scored his first century after two tests, scoring 2 centuries in his first year of test cricket.

    Malik scored his first century midway through his career, a couple of years after his debut. It took him a long time to deliver that century. Usually getting that first or first few centuries is a way to kickstart a batsman's career. That's probably one of the reason's he perhaps wasn't given the test run of Younis Khan for example.

  13. #733
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by taaveez View Post
    No, S Rajesh wasn't dumb enough to waste his time on players who played 2 joke innings on these respective positions, including a not out each.

    In case you missed, he qualified his list by requiring the accumulation of 1,500 runs in these positions. Malik the 36-averager has 1,500 runs in his entire 10-year career!
    Then he shouldn't mentioned Malik at all. I am cool with that.

  14. #734
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ads101 View Post
    Also bear in mind that Younis khan scored his first century after two tests, scoring 2 centuries in his first year of test cricket.

    Malik scored his first century midway through his career, a couple of years after his debut. It took him a long time to deliver that century. Usually getting that first or first few centuries is a way to kickstart a batsman's career. That's probably one of the reason's he perhaps wasn't given the test run of Younis Khan for example.
    Yes, if you are looking for centures, then Malik is not your guy.
    As You must have seen the comparison of YK vs Malik for their first 29 matches on this very same thread.

    Yes, YK made more 100s in his first 29 tests but still endup same average.
    Last edited by Black Zero; 20th July 2010 at 01:37.

  15. #735
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ads101 View Post
    Malik will never be a better batsman than Younis Khan in tests. Younis has better technique, and is basically the better batsman.
    Snap judgement based on perception.
    Regarding technique I did some little work and found both are at par.

  16. #736
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ads101 View Post

    He's well within his rights to focus on criticising malik at no.6 as that's the position he plays at most.
    He was mainly talking about 3,4,5 and abruptly switched to Malik (#6,#7)instead of talking about current or recent 3,4,5.

    He wasn't within his rights to jump directly on Malik.

  17. #737
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by taaveez View Post
    No, S Rajesh wasn't dumb enough to waste his time on players who played 2 joke innings on these respective positions, including a not out each.

    In case you missed, he qualified his list by requiring the accumulation of 1,500 runs in these positions. Malik the 36-averager has 1,500 runs in his entire 10-year career!
    Either you live in some unparallel universes simultanously or you share your pakpassion credentials with someone or couldbe a dual personality.
    I do not go personal, forgive me for that, but you need to be little consistent with your arguments and objections.

    http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...7&postcount=67

  18. #738
    Debut
    Jan 2006
    Runs
    7,448
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Anwaar View Post
    Snap judgement based on perception.
    Regarding technique I did some little work and found both are at par.
    Aaaah yes you analysed their technique using stats! I love the fact we have comedians on this forum - gives it that edge! Keep up the good work

  19. #739
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan Yusuf View Post
    Aaaah yes you analysed their technique using stats! I love the fact we have comedians on this forum - gives it that edge! Keep up the good work
    So you got courage to show up at last?
    Remember last time?
    As I said I'll present test stats of SM after asia cup and I have been doing since.

    I wont ask you to browse through as I know your objective is to mock, to moan, to cry, to excuse , to bash and to escape.

  20. #740
    Debut
    Sep 2009
    Runs
    2,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Anwaar View Post
    Either you live in some unparallel universes simultanously or you share your pakpassion credentials with someone or couldbe a dual personality.
    I do not go personal, forgive me for that, but you need to be little consistent with your arguments and objections.

    http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...7&postcount=67
    You are way too predictable. Yawn.
    http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...7&postcount=68

  21. #741
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,790
    Mentioned
    64 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Anwaar View Post
    Yes, if you are looking for centures, then Malik is not your guy.
    As You must have seen the comparison of YK vs Malik for their first 29 matches on this very same thread.

    Yes, YK made more 100s in his first 29 tests but still endup same average.
    Centuries is basically what you look for. A century can be matchwinning, a half century isn't usually. Malik's highest score after the two centuries is only 73.

    Perhaps ,malik is more consistent in making some runs each time, but that often really does little good. I'd rather take a batsman who scored 100,0,0 than one who made 36,36,36. Because those 36 scores are unlikely to make a huge difference. In a ODI and T20 perhaps but not tests. Younis has better technique, better temperament than malik. Even if you don't agree that Younis has better technique, his ability as a batsman (and how he uses/lives up to his ability) is better than malik hence the fairly big gaps in averages between them.

    He was right to mention malik, as malik although mainly batting at 6 or 7, wasn't supposed to stay there. Once he had shown his potential at 6 and 7 and bumped his test average to something decent, he would have been moved up to the middle order (3,4 and 5) thus becoming a middle order batsman.

    There is no point digging up stats to prove malik's worth at his current position. His average is poor and his average at his current batting position for some time, 6, is also poor.

  22. #742
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by taaveez View Post
    Sorry, too late, you can not re-write history.
    No clarification or justification is acceptable now.

  23. #743
    Debut
    Aug 2005
    Venue
    My Room
    Runs
    26,704
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Malik should bat at 4 tomorrow, and Amin should bat at 6. That will do two things: test Malik out against a reasonably new ball, and separate Amin and Ali in the order.

    And it's a misconception that batting at 6 and 7 is easier in Test cricket. Those positions are difficult, because either the team is precariously placed at something like 100/4, or they're looking for quick runs at 300/4. It's very hard to bat for yourself at a position like that, especially as there is usually only one specialist batsman to follow you. You also make yourself susceptible to the second new ball. No idea why Malik prefers to bat there.

  24. #744
    Debut
    Sep 2009
    Runs
    2,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Anwaar View Post
    Sorry, too late, you can not re-write history.
    No clarification or justification is acceptable now.
    Moe yawn. Read the post again.

  25. #745
    Debut
    Sep 2009
    Runs
    2,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Easa View Post
    Malik should bat at 4 tomorrow, and Amin should bat at 6. That will do two things: test Malik out against a reasonably new ball, and separate Amin and Ali in the order.

    And it's a misconception that batting at 6 and 7 is easier in Test cricket. Those positions are difficult, because either the team is precariously placed at something like 100/4, or they're looking for quick runs at 300/4. It's very hard to bat for yourself at a position like that, especially as there is usually only one specialist batsman to follow you. You also make yourself susceptible to the second new ball. No idea why Malik prefers to bat there.
    Malik is a 30-and-change average guy. Doesn't matter where you put him, his temperament won't get you anything more than that.

    Unless of course he knows his spot is up for grabs.

  26. #746
    Debut
    Aug 2005
    Venue
    My Room
    Runs
    26,704
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by taaveez View Post
    Unless of course he knows his spot is up for grabs.
    Yeah, that's where his transformation from 30 and change guy to the glorious reincarnate of Lara and Ponting happens, right?

  27. #747
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by taaveez View Post
    Moe yawn. Read the post again.
    I read it again and then again and am surprised to see that you can't see
    that you are at very low moral grounds.

    If you don't believe in any argument then do not present it first place.
    And if you are doing to counter someone then be very clear about your stand on the issue in very same post.

    (I could have easily exclude those matches where Malik was just as a "temp captain" to boost his win%age and W/L %age to make it look even better, but I didn't present cause I do not believe in doing so).

    If presenting the sample size of 2/3 of acceptable to you in a different thread then you have absolutely no moral ground to object when Malik is beating both MoYo and YK at #4 and #5.

    by the way, its their 100% vs 100% matches at respective positions.

  28. #748
    Debut
    Jan 2006
    Venue
    canada
    Runs
    1,434
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Time and time again I have seen some of the same things over and over again in threads about a guy known to be playing politics with the team and known to be a very negative influence in the dressing room unless hes captain. The usual themes are:

    1. Comparing malik with younus khan as batsmen, a guy with a great test average to a guy who cant play the pull shot.......hillarious.
    2. I read the words "malik the most successful odi captain" somewhere......disgusting.
    3. "Stats" are being used to defend a "senior" batsman who averages in the 30s despite playing mostly on pancakes.........ridiculous.
    4. Arguments such as "experienced", "reliable", "best possible choice"........frustrating.
    5. So much support and hubub about a very average player..........depressing.
    6. The responses (including to this post, which i hope he ignores) from Anwaar..............hopeless.

    But in the end we will come back to the same old ****, "he hasnt had a consistent run" , "he needs time", "he has potential".......you can take all three of these arguments and also apply them to Mr.Zardari as being pakistans leader. How great does that sound?!

  29. #749
    Debut
    Sep 2009
    Runs
    2,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Anwaar View Post
    I read it again and then again and am surprised to see that you can't see
    that you are at very low moral grounds.

    If you don't believe in any argument then do not present it first place.
    And if you are doing to counter someone then be very clear about your stand on the issue in very same post.

    (I could have easily exclude those matches where Malik was just as a "temp captain" to boost his win%age and W/L %age to make it look even better, but I didn't present cause I do not believe in doing so).

    If presenting the sample size of 2/3 of acceptable to you in a different thread then you have absolutely no moral ground to object when Malik is beating both MoYo and YK at #4 and #5.

    by the way, its their 100% vs 100% matches at respective positions.
    Not only do we have to keep up with your reading comprehension issues, but you don't want to address them even when given feedback.

    Show me where I used his 2-match stats to conclude something. If I was using your standards, I'd have pasted a fat, bolded conclusion next to the stat. But, I didn't, did I? My conclusion is in the post following the one you were crying about (which only included data).

    This is the difference between the crapola you post here and the true statistics. I don't care if you post stats for 1 match or 100 matches, the moment you use the 1 match stat to dish out a conclusion, however, you cross the line. You've crossed it several times in this thread, and I only see more and more infatuation with it (i.e. with data manipulation and unwarranted conclusions).

    Already, I've written more on this topic than you'll ever learn from. But at least I won't regret that I didn't try.
    Last edited by taaveez; 21st July 2010 at 01:21.

  30. #750
    Debut
    Sep 2009
    Runs
    2,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Anwaar View Post
    If presenting the sample size of 2/3 of acceptable to you in a different thread then you have absolutely no moral ground to object when Malik is beating both MoYo and YK at #4 and #5.

    by the way, its their 100% vs 100% matches at respective positions.
    And BTW, keep morality out of these stats discussions. It has as much to do with morals as you to do with logic.

    Malik is a below average batsman. His stats are distorted at positions #4 and #5. But, regardless, he is a below average batsman. He wouldn't be in our team except for his sifarish's.
    Last edited by taaveez; 21st July 2010 at 01:11.

  31. #751
    Debut
    Jun 2009
    Venue
    Lala Land- The Prime Minister.
    Runs
    8,149
    Mentioned
    41 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    so anwaar mubarka shoib malik will play tomorrow, hopefully your work would pay off and shoaib v2.0 will be produced this summer for the rest of his career



  32. #752
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ads101 View Post
    Centuries is basically what you look for. A century can be matchwinning, a half century isn't usually. Malik's highest score after the two centuries is only 73.

    Perhaps ,malik is more consistent in making some runs each time, but that often really does little good. I'd rather take a batsman who scored 100,0,0 than one who made 36,36,36. Because those 36 scores are unlikely to make a huge difference. In a ODI and T20 perhaps but not tests. Younis has better technique, better temperament than malik. Even if you don't agree that Younis has better technique, his ability as a batsman (and how he uses/lives up to his ability) is better than malik hence the fairly big gaps in averages between them.

    He was right to mention malik, as malik although mainly batting at 6 or 7, wasn't supposed to stay there. Once he had shown his potential at 6 and 7 and bumped his test average to something decent, he would have been moved up to the middle order (3,4 and 5) thus becoming a middle order batsman.

    There is no point digging up stats to prove malik's worth at his current position. His average is poor and his average at his current batting position for some time, 6, is also poor.
    Too much risk have to take to get those centures:


  33. #753
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Free Hit View Post
    so anwaar mubarka shoib malik will play tomorrow, hopefully your work would pay off and shoaib v2.0 will be produced this summer for the rest of his career
    I am ok with SMv1.
    Thanks for letting him play tomorrow, please make sure he plays all remaining 5 matches.

  34. #754
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by taaveez View Post
    And BTW, keep morality out of these stats discussions. It has as much to do with morals as you to do with logic.

    Malik is a below average batsman. His stats are distorted at positions #4 and #5. But, regardless, he is a below average batsman. He wouldn't be in our team except for his sifarish's.

    Ok, but this "below average" batsman has higher average than "class" and "legend" batsman.

  35. #755
    Debut
    Jan 2006
    Runs
    7,448
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Anwaar View Post
    So you got courage to show up at last?
    Remember last time?
    As I said I'll present test stats of SM after asia cup and I have been doing since.

    I wont ask you to browse through as I know your objective is to mock, to moan, to cry, to excuse , to bash and to escape.
    What is there to your stats? What have you proven that we don't already know?

    Coefficient of deviation??! My word, talk about dressing up mediocrity!

    All you're basically saying is malik is consistently mediocre! Wow - do you want a medal? We all knew that. You want us to pick malik because he is more likely to make 30! Didn't know standards have dropped so much!

    I mean where do you stop? There is a limit to supporting someone. At least posters like Easa accept that malik hasn't done much in tests - yes they live in hope that he'll come good eventually, these are the type of fans that have a positive take on things, fair enough I can even live with that.

    But you my friend are deluded beyond comprehension.

    You stick to mediocrity, some of us want a bit more than that.

    Coefficient of deviation!!

  36. #756
    Debut
    Jul 2010
    Runs
    75
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Anwaar definitely isnt ready to see the absurdity of his analysis.

  37. #757
    Debut
    Aug 2006
    Venue
    Bay area, CA
    Runs
    11,384
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Easa View Post
    Malik should bat at 4 tomorrow, and Amin should bat at 6. That will do two things: test Malik out against a reasonably new ball, and separate Amin and Ali in the order.

    And it's a misconception that batting at 6 and 7 is easier in Test cricket. Those positions are difficult, because either the team is precariously placed at something like 100/4, or they're looking for quick runs at 300/4. It's very hard to bat for yourself at a position like that, especially as there is usually only one specialist batsman to follow you. You also make yourself susceptible to the second new ball. No idea why Malik prefers to bat there.
    Answer is easy usually 4 down batsman for Pakistan comes in around the 30-60 over and the ball is not doing as much by then and the new ball is 20-30 overs away atleast.

  38. #758
    Debut
    Aug 2006
    Venue
    Bay area, CA
    Runs
    11,384
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This thread will get a new light if Malik is able to score a 50 tomorrow.
    I am cringing at the thought but since it will help Pakistan I am all for it
    Last edited by iafzal; 21st July 2010 at 06:32.

  39. #759
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan Yusuf View Post
    What is there to your stats? What have you proven that we don't already know?

    Coefficient of deviation??! My word, talk about dressing up mediocrity!

    All you're basically saying is malik is consistently mediocre! Wow - do you want a medal? We all knew that. You want us to pick malik because he is more likely to make 30! Didn't know standards have dropped so much!

    I mean where do you stop? There is a limit to supporting someone. At least posters like Easa accept that malik hasn't done much in tests - yes they live in hope that he'll come good eventually, these are the type of fans that have a positive take on things, fair enough I can even live with that.

    But you my friend are deluded beyond comprehension.

    You stick to mediocrity, some of us want a bit more than that.

    Coefficient of deviation!!
    If CoV is too complex for you, there ton of other stuff in this thread for your entertainment.
    Well in response to your post I just can say "Keep rolling."

  40. #760
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by FreddyBo View Post
    Anwaar definitely isnt ready to see the absurdity of his analysis.
    Which on you talking about? In this thread there are tons of data sets presented to shed light on different aspects.


  41. #761
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cornelius View Post
    Time and time again I have seen some of the same things over and over again in threads about a guy known to be playing politics with the team and known to be a very negative influence in the dressing room unless hes captain. The usual themes are:

    1. Comparing malik with younus khan as batsmen, a guy with a great test average to a guy who cant play the pull shot.......hillarious.
    2. I read the words "malik the most successful odi captain" somewhere......disgusting.
    3. "Stats" are being used to defend a "senior" batsman who averages in the 30s despite playing mostly on pancakes.........ridiculous.
    4. Arguments such as "experienced", "reliable", "best possible choice"........frustrating.
    5. So much support and hubub about a very average player..........depressing.
    6. The responses (including to this post, which i hope he ignores) from Anwaar..............hopeless.

    But in the end we will come back to the same old ****, "he hasnt had a consistent run" , "he needs time", "he has potential".......you can take all three of these arguments and also apply them to Mr.Zardari as being pakistans leader. How great does that sound?!
    Thats why we are here in "SM support thread" to clear the misconceptions you're victim of.

  42. #762
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by iafzal View Post
    This thread will get a new light if Malik is able to score a 50 tomorrow.
    I am cringing at the thought but since it will help Pakistan I am all for it
    You think it would be Pakistan batting first? My guess that It would be Australia.

    Re: Malik's performance, he would be on par or better as compared to others.

  43. #763
    Debut
    Sep 2009
    Runs
    2,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Anwaar View Post
    Ok, but this "below average" batsman has higher average than "class" and "legend" batsman.
    SM averages 36, YK averages 50, and MoYo averages 53. End of discussion.

    The rest of the stuff is your distortion of simple numbers into two-test lies. Though it reflects the motivations of the guy you are supporting.
    Last edited by taaveez; 21st July 2010 at 07:07.

  44. #764
    Debut
    Jan 2006
    Runs
    7,448
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Anwaar View Post
    If CoV is too complex for you, there ton of other stuff in this thread for your entertainment.
    Well in response to your post I just can say "Keep rolling."
    Oh dear! Have you just come across CoV? Please, go and impress your college friends or fellow nerds. I studied this in my degree over 10 years ago, and believe me, would not revisit it if I can help it.

    This is a cricket forum, not a nerdy stats class.

    However you want to dress it up, all it points to is that malik is no century maker, he isn't even much of a 50 maker, but he is more likely to make 30 than the majority of others, albeit not much more - in other words mediocre.

    Just say you support a mediocre player and be done with it. Stop beating around the bush like a woman, unless you are one....in which case please accept my apologies, but you should have made this clear.

  45. #765
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan Yusuf View Post
    Oh dear! Have you just come across CoV? Please, go and impress your college friends or fellow nerds. I studied this in my degree over 10 years ago, and believe me, would not revisit it if I can help it.

    This is a cricket forum, not a nerdy stats class.

    However you want to dress it up, all it points to is that malik is no century maker, he isn't even much of a 50 maker, but he is more likely to make 30 than the majority of others, albeit not much more - in other words mediocre.

    Just say you support a mediocre player and be done with it. Stop beating around the bush like a woman, unless you are one....in which case please accept my apologies, but you should have made this clear.

    I'd believe if you scan and link your result cards here...Who knows you may be drop out.

    And you missed one thing...your usual rolling.

  46. #766
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by taaveez View Post
    SM averages 36, YK averages 50, and MoYo averages 53. End of discussion.

    The rest of the stuff is your distortion of simple numbers into two-test lies. Though it reflects the motivations of the guy you are supporting.
    Interesting indeed. Yes Malik averaged 36.11 career wise, I am not the one who is denying this fact.

    but at the same time, no one should be angry if Malik averaged 64 at #4 and at #5, well above MoYo and YK average at those spots. It is a FACT. Can't help much.

  47. #767
    Debut
    May 2007
    Venue
    NYC
    Runs
    21,701
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If Malik wants to regain my support he'll have to come out at #3 or 4. He better not hide behin the youngsters.

  48. #768
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Inswinger View Post
    If Malik wants to regain my support he'll have to come out at #3 or 4. He better not hide behin the youngsters.
    couple of questions:
    When did you last time support him?
    and
    Why you stopped supporting him?


    What's your opinion of Inzi and MoYo, who were famous for avoiding #3?

  49. #769
    Debut
    Sep 2009
    Runs
    2,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Anwaar View Post
    Interesting indeed. Yes Malik averaged 36.11 career wise, I am not the one who is denying this fact.

    but at the same time, no one should be angry if Malik averaged 64 at #4 and at #5, well above MoYo and YK average at those spots. It is a FACT. Can't help much.
    I don't care what he did at what position. He averages 36.11, which is below average as a batsman, so he's a below-average batsman.

    If you are a 1987 Toyota Tercel, who gives a hoot if you come with a brand spanking new wiper blade?

  50. #770
    Debut
    May 2007
    Venue
    NYC
    Runs
    21,701
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Anwaar View Post
    couple of questions:
    When did you last time support him?
    and
    Why you stopped supporting him?


    What's your opinion of Inzi and MoYo, who were famous for avoiding #3?
    Beleive it or not but I was probaly as big a supporter of Malik as you are. Other PPers (Saeed-Sohail, AZ, etc) can confirm it for you. But I've changed my views over the past few months.

    I'll answer your questions with mire details at a later time because I'm posting from my phone and my thumbs are sore. Get back to you on those.

  51. #771
    Debut
    Sep 2009
    Runs
    2,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Anwaar View Post
    What's your opinion of Inzi and MoYo, who were famous for avoiding #3?
    I believe he mentioned #3 OR #4.

    Read and comprehend.

  52. #772
    Debut
    Jan 2007
    Runs
    3,787
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Azhar and Amin seem better accustomed for pace so position 3 & 4 suit them. While Malik is a better spin player so something like #6 suit him. So there's no need/logic sending Malik one down-two down. Moon boy won't last for more than 1 ball up the order, unless we are playing against India.

  53. #773
    Debut
    Mar 2010
    Runs
    472
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Wishing Malik all the best tomorrow. Hopefully he'll score well in this match and this thread may get some direction.

  54. #774
    Debut
    Aug 2006
    Runs
    2,669
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kriketer View Post
    Azhar and Amin seem better accustomed for pace so position 3 & 4 suit them. While Malik is a better spin player so something like #6 suit him. So there's no need/logic sending Malik one down-two down. Moon boy won't last for more than 1 ball up the order, unless we are playing against India.

    He will refuse to bat at number 3 like always

  55. #775
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by taaveez View Post
    I believe he mentioned #3 OR #4.

    Read and comprehend.
    I read it.
    Am I not allowed to ask someone's opinion?

  56. #776
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by qaiser View Post
    He will refuse to bat at number 3 like always
    Thats management's job to assure him that he would be given a long run and wont be packed after couple of low scores.
    on the flip side, who would believe current management...better to be safe than sorry.

  57. #777
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by taaveez View Post
    I don't care what he did at what position. He averages 36.11, which is below average as a batsman, so he's a below-average batsman.

    If you are a 1987 Toyota Tercel, who gives a hoot if you come with a brand spanking new wiper blade?
    Well I do.

  58. #778
    Debut
    Sep 2009
    Runs
    2,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Anwaar View Post
    Well I do.
    Cool, PP also suggests:



    http://www.motortrend.com/used_cars/...nopaging=false

  59. #779
    Debut
    Mar 2010
    Runs
    472
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by qaiser View Post
    He will refuse to bat at number 3 like always
    It's one thing if Malik refuses, but it's a totally different thing if the management and captain don't want Malik to go out and bat at no.3. What if Salman Butt wants to persist with Azhar and Amain at 3 & 4 which may lead Malik to come after them or after U.Akmal. We had two newbies in the last test at 3 &4, no one complained about Kamran or Afridi coming out to bat before them.

  60. #780
    Debut
    Mar 2010
    Runs
    472
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by taaveez View Post
    I don't care what he did at what position. He averages 36.11, which is below average as a batsman, so he's a below-average batsman.

    If you are a 1987 Toyota Tercel, who gives a hoot if you come with a brand spanking new wiper blade?
    If you're going to look at averages, then Malik isn't the only below average batsman with a 30 something test average, everyone is besides U.Akmal.

  61. #781
    Debut
    Feb 2010
    Venue
    USA
    Runs
    44
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Good luck to him tomorrow, he may be vital in the inexperienced batting lineup

  62. #782
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cryptkeeper* View Post
    It's one thing if Malik refuses, but it's a totally different thing if the management and captain don't want Malik to go out and bat at no.3. What if Salman Butt wants to persist with Azhar and Amain at 3 & 4 which may lead Malik to come after them or after U.Akmal. We had two newbies in the last test at 3 &4, no one complained about Kamran or Afridi coming out to bat before them.
    Very well said.

  63. #783
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by taaveez View Post
    Look like MoYo Model

  64. #784
    Debut
    Sep 2009
    Runs
    2,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cryptkeeper* View Post
    If you're going to look at averages, then Malik isn't the only below average batsman with a 30 something test average, everyone is besides U.Akmal.
    And my opinion of all others (who have played at least 10 or so tests) isn't very different.

    Well, except Butt, but then he's the kuptaan.

  65. #785
    Debut
    Sep 2009
    Runs
    2,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Anwaar View Post
    Look like MoYo Model
    Oh come on, Anwaar, I know you were never original, but this is a disgrace even in your case.

  66. #786
    Debut
    Mar 2010
    Runs
    472
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    edit - wrong post. lol

  67. #787
    Debut
    Mar 2010
    Runs
    472
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by taaveez View Post
    And my opinion of all others (who have played at least 10 or so tests) isn't very different.

    Well, except Butt, but then he's the kuptaan.
    I'm not big on Malik playing in tests for us with all honesty, but if we're going to stick with him in this test match or any of the future ones on this tour, I wish him the best of luck and hope he comes through not because he has to prove his worth in this format but because he hasn't been scoring much international runs as of late.

    Agreed on the part about Salman. He's more or less the exception now because of his recent performances. Lets hope he's consistent.

  68. #788
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by taaveez View Post
    Oh come on, Anwaar, I know you were never original, but this is a disgrace even in your case.
    I wont be this direct again. Next time you need to be your sharp best, otherwise if you missed it then you missed it (I wont explain).
    Hint: You said something about new wipers.

  69. #789
    Debut
    Dec 2009
    Runs
    13,931
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by taaveez View Post
    And my opinion of all others (who have played at least 10 or so tests) isn't very different.

    Well, except Butt, but then he's the kuptaan.
    Why not 9 tests or 11 tests? Shouldn't it be based on innings?
    Whats the criteria then for new comers?

  70. #790
    Debut
    Mar 2004
    Venue
    St James' Park
    Runs
    58,907
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I dont think he should be in the side BUT I hope he scores some runs here - we need to get as big a lead as possible and really its down to the 2 guys batting and Malik/Kamran

  71. #791
    Debut
    Sep 2009
    Runs
    2,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Anwaar View Post
    Why not 9 tests or 11 tests? Shouldn't it be based on innings?
    Whats the criteria then for new comers?
    Mind the difference between 10 or so tests and 10 tests. I'll be happy to provide a statistical justification when I provide the actual stats next time.

    As it is, the burden is on the person who posts a two-inning or two-test conclusion (or anything that has a debatable sample size) to prove to us why we should believe it to be statistically significant.

  72. #792
    Debut
    Mar 2004
    Venue
    Manchester, UK
    Runs
    104,188
    Mentioned
    664 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Malik to score a nice 23 and then throw it away as usual today!

  73. #793
    Debut
    Sep 2009
    Runs
    2,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Big day ahead for Malik lovers. Nervous?


  74. #794
    Debut
    Dec 2008
    Venue
    London, UK
    Runs
    1,842
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    While Malik doesnt have the credentials to play test cricket, he is in this side, the pakistan team could do without such negativity as guys like taaveez emit. While there negetivity over Malik is justified in light of previous events...n the context of this match we need both Malik and K. Akmal to fire, need to support both.


    Shahid Afridi....the skill, the power, the frustration

  75. #795
    Debut
    Mar 2004
    Venue
    Manchester, UK
    Runs
    104,188
    Mentioned
    664 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Time for Malik to prove himself today!

  76. #796
    Debut
    Sep 2009
    Runs
    2,469
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ahmed16 View Post
    While Malik doesnt have the credentials to play test cricket, he is in this side, the pakistan team could do without such negativity as guys like taaveez emit. While there negetivity over Malik is justified in light of previous events...n the context of this match we need both Malik and K. Akmal to fire, need to support both.
    If you can guarantee that my support for Malik here will actually make him perform, I'll do it in a blink.

    Until then, no need to confuse being honest with appearing to be negative.

  77. #797
    Debut
    Jul 2009
    Venue
    Malé, Maldives
    Runs
    2,015
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Malik doing well thus far. Hope he scores a 100 and secures the win for Pakistan.

  78. #798
    Debut
    Jun 2010
    Venue
    united Kingdom
    Runs
    2,214
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    He's looked very comfortable out there, not a single sniff has he given to australia, he's improved his game against the quicks by covering his stumps to get right behind the ball and to make sure he's leaving the ball outside off and that he knows when to play the drive.

    Batted well, some lovely drives down the ground and square of the wicket.

    So far so good, inshallah he'll carry on his form after lunch.

  79. #799
    Debut
    Dec 2005
    Runs
    17,122
    Mentioned
    64 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    He was playing well. Looked comfy.

    But what the hell was that shot? I mean he is there coz of his experience supposedly. That was not a shot of an experienced batter. All he needed was to take a single


    Ghareeb saray mar gaye
    Kiun kai, zinda hai bhutto zinda hai

  80. #800
    Debut
    Mar 2004
    Venue
    Manchester, UK
    Runs
    104,188
    Mentioned
    664 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Another world class Knock by Malik today!

    What would we do without him!


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •