Is religion really that important in our daily lives?

[Khubi]

what i see having met a lot of muslims and other religionists is that they tend to let their beliefs affect their lives too much and judge every event of their life on basis of religion.

such things oftenn lead the religious peoples to take things to too extremes and unbeliviers (atheists) start to dislike them for their such habbits like "god exts u should believe, eternal hell awaits you, our holy figures are to be accepted".

why i post this is because two of my friwnds had a big fight on it today was one who was atheist was too tired of such stuff.

whats your views on this?

[NJamal]

Without religion our lives will be like headless chicken running here and there.

[chaiwala]

Originally Posted by njamal574 Without religion our lives will be like headless chicken running here and there.

It's already like that, even with religion.

[cornered-tigers]

yes, without religion we are animals,

[NJamal]

Originally Posted by chaiwala It's already like that, even with religion.

For u because you are a MURTAAD.

[cornered-tigers]

if you study religion then you wont be running left and right, its all there for you to understand. Then like any discipline, you need to have teachers who can guide you. You can go to as many you want, and then draw your conclusion. It is embedded in us, we just have to invoke the software,

[cornered-tigers]

Religion is the truth and light, all else darkness,

[chaiwala]

Originally Posted by njamal574 For u because you are a MURTAAD.

No for everyone. The world is quite imperfect already, even though religion exists.

[grunge]

Religion exists because its the oldest,most tested individual/community support system...we are hard wired to find logic especially in times of difficulty and thats where religion does its job.

In response to your question,its a personal choice...if Muslim/christian follows his religion in every day life,its his choice..but he certainly doesn't have the right to start questioning other's lifestyles

its like that million year old dogma..''u need religion to bring morality to the society''..No,you dont..Morality comes from within us.

[grunge]

Originally Posted by cornered-tigers yes, without religion we are animals,

With or without religion,we are technically ''animals''.

Religion prolly just makes one a ''delusioned'' animal.

[Fawad2010]

For me, religion is what keeps me going in hard times and its what keeps my feet on the ground when i am happy.

if it helps me in life, and I don't go out and impose it on others, what is wrong with that?

[grunge]

Originally Posted by Fawad2010 For me, religion is what keeps me going in hard times and its what keeps my feet on the ground when i am happy. if it helps me in life, and I don't go out and impose it on others, what is wrong with that?

nothing wrong..its the most successful support system known to mankind

[Fawad2010]

Don't tell me that me turning to Allah in the time of need bothers you...

[NJamal]

Why are atheists so interested in any topic regarding religion? Might be deep inside them they are missing something.

[grunge]

Originally Posted by Fawad2010 Don't tell me that me turning to Allah in the time of need bothers you...

No it doesnt.it works.

So does turning to ''Jesus Christ'' for christians.

[Geordie Ahmed]

Bit of an odd question as your question is not aimed at an individual whilst we are only capable of answering on our own behalf

Personally for me religion is important in my daily life, if there was no religion my life would be very different and my social activities would not doubt be different as well

Obviously that isn't the case for everybody so each person has different beliefs and even within those beliefs you get different strength levels

[chaiwala]

Originally Posted by Fawad2010 Don't tell me that me turning to Allah in the time of need bothers you...

Doesn't bother me as long as your religion is personal to you. But if your beliefs involuntarily include me, and affect me, then it certainly bothers me. However, to be fair, most religious people I have met are very good at being personal with their beliefs.

[hipster]

Originally Posted by njamal574 Why are atheists so interested in any topic regarding religion? Might be deep inside them they are missing something.

Is religon really that important in our daily lifes?

This question concerns athiests/agnostics as well.

As for the topic, it's subjective. I would say no.

[hipster]

Originally Posted by grunge religion exists because its the oldest,most tested individual/community support system...we are hard wired to find logic especially in times of difficulty and thats where religion does its job. In response to your question,its a personal choice...if muslim/christian follows his religion in every day life,its his choice..but he certainly doesn't have the right to start questioning other's lifestyles its like that million year old dogma..''u need religion to bring morality to the society''..no,you dont..morality comes from within us.

[Fawad2010]

Originally Posted by grunge No it doesnt.it works. So does turning to ''Jesus Christ'' for christians.

if it works for them, i am happy for them.

Tolerance is what we need in today's world. all those religious wars costing so many innocents lives...

[chaiwala]

Originally Posted by njamal574 Why are atheists so interested in any topic regarding religion? Might be deep inside them they are missing something.

Because we are human beings too, and we live in a world strongly influenced by religion. Hence, as humans, we like to talk about and discuss the things we see and experience daily, sometimes for the sake of curiosity and intellect . Make sense?

[violet_may]

Depends on the person...It gives some people a sense of hope and something to turn to when things are hard

[NJamal]

Originally Posted by chaiwala Because we are human beings too, and we live in a world strongly influenced by religion. Hence, as humans, we like to talk about and discuss the things we see and experience daily, sometimes for the sake of curiosity and intellect . Make sense?

No, because if I don't believe in a particular thing I will not discuss it. Whats the point in discussing such thing. It means that atheists also believe deep down in religion.

[jusarrived]

Originally Posted by violet_may Depends on the person...It gives some people a sense of hope and something to turn to when things are hard

+1

a nice little human creation

[chaiwala]

Originally Posted by njamal574 No, because if I don't believe in a particular thing I will not discuss it. Whats the point in discussing such thing. It means that atheists also believe deep down in religion.

This is the worst logic I have seen in quite some time here.

By not believing in something, I am always warranted to discuss my lack of belief in that "something."

[Fawad2010]

Originally Posted by chaiwala Doesn't bother me as long as your religion is personal to you. But if your beliefs involuntarily include me, and affect me, then it certainly bothers me. However, to be fair, most religious people I have met are very good at being personal with their beliefs.

my religion is the most personal thing i have.

But what I ask for is the knowledge being spread. if my neighbor is a religious person, i ask him to share his believe and i share mine to him, i don't go out of my way to impose my views on others. all I ask for is an exchange of knowledge and if one refuses, i can understand that.

What motivates me to do that is as the Prophet (PBUH) said, if there is pit of fire and people are falling into it, wouldn't you extend your arm and try to save a few? (I don't remember the exact hadith).

[DeadlyVenom]

Its the most important thing for me.

[violet_may]

Originally Posted by jusarrived +1 a nice little human creation

If it is a human creation, don't see any harm in it. To each his own. Everyone has their own way of coping with difficult times in their life. If praying helps, then go for it.

[cornered-tigers]

i thik its the other way, you the one who are not religious are delusioned animals,

[cornered-tigers]

Religion can not be personal, if it was Prophets would have kept it to themselves!!

[cornered-tigers]

wrong, the person who follows religion, follows it on all walks of life, in all types of situations, be they good or bad, athiests belive that religion is a pillar whose support is needed when things go bad, nonsense!!

[cornered-tigers]

I know i am wasting my time here with teenagers posting on this post who think they know it all and have seen it all, and they think they are socrates or something

[Markhor]

No it is not the most important thing in our lives but when you go through tough times,a quick prayer or 4 Quls can make a huge difference.

Having that spiritual back-up,if you will,is important.

We theists have someone to turn to,who do atheists turn to ? Sure some atheists have strong characters and can cope with stress and suffering but prayers are something intangible,something that provides you enormous strength and that is where religion has the edge over atheism.

As for keeping religion personal,I agree with that to an extent,people should not wear their faiths on their sleeves and recite verses at every given opportunity.But when you have something as integral to someone as religion,it is understandable amongst fellow Muslims,rather than non-Muslims,who will feel uncomfortable.

[chaiwala]

Originally Posted by cornered-tigers I know i am wasting my time here with teenagers posting on this post who think they know it all and have seen it all, and they think they are socrates or something

Honestly, it's OK. I don't think many people are paying attention to your posts anyways.

[chaiwala]

Originally Posted by Markhor We theists have someone to turn to,who do atheists turn to ?

A good question. When I am going through tough times, I generally focus on things that I can do to fix the situation. Sometimes, this includes getting help from other willing humans too.

[SAPakFan]

Religion is most important,my opinion,our lives should revolve around religion,not vice versa. To spread the message is our duty-not to impose, to lead by example and help others to the best of our ability

[James]

Originally Posted by Markhor We theists have someone to turn to,who do atheists turn to ? Sure some atheists have strong characters and can cope with stress and suffering but prayers are something intangible,something that provides you enormous strength and that is where religion has the edge over atheism..

I have been drifting towards atheism for some years now, and have dealt with numerous difficult times. My biological father developed schizophrenia, my mum contracted breast cancer, my long-term relationship with the woman I loved broke down. Things like that. A theist would have had the same problems as me during these times. I appreciate the power of prayer for its psychosomatic effect, but at the end of the day, no sky god will take away your problems - you have to face them yourself.

[violet_may]

@chaiwala: Religious people do that as well, i.e. asking friends for advice and what not. I think its extra support they get by turning to God as well.

[hipster]

Originally Posted by Whippy I have been drifting towards atheism for some years now, and have dealt with numerous difficult times. My biological father developed schizophrenia, my mum contracted breast cancer, my long-term relationship with the woman I loved broke down. Things like that. A theist would have had the same problems as me during these times. I appreciate the power of prayer for its psychosomatic effect, but at the end of the day, no sky god will take away your problems - you have to face them yourself.

Summed up nicely, Whips. I've had my share of such critical times too, but I've got over it without much difference. It was hard for me then, and it's hard for me now. And I get over it. Life goes on.

[chaiwala]

Originally Posted by violet_may @chaiwala: Religious people do that as well, i.e. asking friends for advice and what not. I think its extra support they get by turning to God as well.

Yes prayer can indeed give you some needed confidence in such situations. But again, I have no problems with that aspect of religion. My issue is when it moves beyond a personal and individual level.

[mithun_minhas]

Originally Posted by Whippy I have been drifting towards atheism for some years now, and have dealt with numerous difficult times. My biological father developed schizophrenia, my mum contracted breast cancer, my long-term relationship with the woman I loved broke down. Things like that. A theist would have had the same problems as me during these times. I appreciate the power of prayer for its psychosomatic effect, but at the end of the day, no sky god will take away your problems - you have to face them yourself.

+1000000

Totally agreed....

Religion to me is nothing but mass hysteria...

If Santa is for Kids, Religion and the big guy in Sky is for adults...

Humans are wired to have belief and faith... When difficult times come and some arrive without a reason, we as humans tend to find the reason for everything...

If Humans cannot find a reason for the things that happen around them, they put that on God... Easy way out I should say!!!

People used to think that Plague happened due to the wrath of God until it was eradicated by humans in a scientific way...

People used to think that Eclipses happened because demons swallowed Sun and moon

But we all know the reasons for them now.... Time and development will eradicate a lot of myths and blind faiths...

Science and Religion will always be on the opposite ends... One demands rational thinking and the other wants its followers to blindly follow what is written in the scriptures by people 2000yrs ago..

[Robert]

Originally Posted by cornered-tigers yes, without religion we are animals,

I'm without religion.

Am I an animal?

Do you really think you are better than me?

[mithun_minhas]

Originally Posted by Robert I'm without religion. Am I an animal? Do you really think you are better than me?

Your profile pic says that you are a MONKEY BOY!!!!

[dps2009]

nope, i don't need a religious discourse to decide about most decisions i take in daily life..

[mindless slogging]

Originally Posted by Whippy I have been drifting towards atheism for some years now, and have dealt with numerous difficult times. My biological father developed schizophrenia, my mum contracted breast cancer, my long-term relationship with the woman I loved broke down. Things like that. A theist would have had the same problems as me during these times. I appreciate the power of prayer for its psychosomatic effect, but at the end of the day, no sky god will take away your problems - you have to face them yourself.

lol at 'sky god'

I guess you turn to the all-powerful dinosaur femur fossil. Way to go with the covert insult there, nice sanctimoniousness.

[James]

Sky god is just another way of saying higher power or deity. I've got no agenda against anybody in the religion debate - it fascinates me. No need for insecurity on your part.

[mindless slogging]

Originally Posted by Robert I'm without religion. Am I an animal? Do you really think you are better than me?

Well i'm not in a position to give a detailed reply, but his argument was concerning elementary morality, you NEED to invoke God to come up with a plausible argument for morality.

It's Ivan Karamazov's aphorism (who's an atheist in Dostoevsky's Brother's Karamazov), ''remove God and all is permissible'' (Nietzsche's nihilism came from this argument, his presupposition was there is no God thus do as you will).

The argument isn't you're immoral if you're not a theist, rather you have no basis for morality (Hume dispelled the myth of a 'natural' or deterministic morality long ago with his famous maxim ''you cannot derive an ought from an is'').

[mindless slogging]

Originally Posted by Whippy Sky god is just another way of saying higher power or deity. I've got no agenda against anybody in the religion debate - it fascinates me. No need for insecurity on your part.

It isn't just another way of saying, it's technically wrong (God is out side of time and space itself, both of which are created). Just as my analogy that you worship some fossil is also technically wrong.

Thus the analogy was sufficient and correct.

[James]

Originally Posted by mindless slogging The argument isn't you're immoral if you're not a theist, rather you have no basis for morality

A dreadful and incorrect argument...

[James]

Originally Posted by mindless slogging (God is out side of time and space itself, both of which are created).

Not every notion of God is such, surely. You are you talking like only your opinion counts on this matter (untrue).

[mindless slogging]

Originally Posted by cornered-tigers I know i am wasting my time here with teenagers posting on this post who think they know it all and have seen it all, and they think they are socrates or something

Most have grown up on Dawkin's philosophy, the same guy who campaigns against religious people's proselytising and then spends thousands on a bus campaign with posters such as, 'there probably is no God', and even spoke against the tradition of chapels in Oxbridge colleges. And lets also not forget Hitchen's who calls Mother Teresa ''a leathery old bat''.

The great morality and tolerance on display there.

[mindless slogging]

Originally Posted by Whippy A dreadful and incorrect argument...

Why?

I've provided my reasoning, albeit short (and can't post more today), but explain why you disagree with it and why its technically incorrect.

In fact, great philosophers like Immanuel Kant have argued that you need to invoke God for any form of ethics (and i'm told he's an atheist by friends who've studied theology and ethics).

[James]

Yeah Kant is good, but philosophy is an art of questions, not answers. The best philosophers never imposed their will on their readers, they just tried to figure things out, and help others figure things out - they were well aware what a small part of the human race they were. They would want you to question what they said, with a view to either agreeing or disagreeing in the end.

If you walk around and talk to people without that chip on your shoulder, you will find a lot of them to be perfectly decent and reasonable - and many of them will not be religious. Holding strong human relationships is all that's required to deconstruct the laughable notion of religion being our only basis for morality.

[chaiwala]

Originally Posted by mindless slogging Well i'm not in a position to give a detailed reply, but his argument was concerning elementary morality, you NEED to invoke God to come up with a plausible argument for morality. It's Ivan Karamazov's aphorism (who's an atheist in Dostoevsky's Brother's Karamazov), ''remove God and all is permissible'' (Nietzsche's nihilism came from this argument, his presupposition was there is no God thus do as you will). The argument isn't you're immoral if you're not a theist, rather you have no basis for morality (Hume dispelled the myth of a 'natural' or deterministic morality long ago with his famous maxim ''you cannot derive an ought from an is'').

Good post. Indeed religion may have been the basis for our current sense of morality.

However, removing religion will not eradicate this morality. As Nietzsche put it, "God is dead...but his shadow remains." Thus, our current sense and understanding of morality is somewhat static, with or without religion. If that is the case, then why believe in religion any longer? Why do we need it? Morality will remain regardless.

[hipster]

Originally Posted by Whippy A dreadful and incorrect argument...

Yeah. And still there is a lot of horrible stuff like slavery in many religious texts which we should supposedly base our morality on.

[mindless slogging]

Originally Posted by chaiwala Good post. Indeed religion may have been the basis for our current sense of morality. However, removing religion will not eradicate this morality. As Nietzsche put it, "God is dead...but his shadow remains." Thus, our current sense and understanding of morality is somewhat static, with or without religion. If that is the case, then why believe in religion any longer? Morality will remain regardless.

I was about to respond to the post above yours, but clearly your post sums it up well (lol at me with a chip on my shoulder).

I can't really respond, as it requires a detailed entry and you do raise a good point. However, i will say belief in religion is larger than a hegemony over morality (which'll just be a superficial belief -- you don't need religion because of morality, you need religion because of God and that is more profound than morality).

Secondly, people need reasons/an incentive. If we're free willed (and not deterministic), then our beliefs do play a role in shaping our beings.

P.S. You seem a level headed poster from your posts.

In reply to Whippy, i do have atheist friends and have talked around, didn't think you'd get so defensive.

[James]

Originally Posted by mindless slogging In reply to Whippy, i do have atheist friends and have talked around, didn't think you'd get so defensive.

You were actually the first to poke me if you remember, after wrongly construing my path to agnosticism/atheism as dinosaur fossil worship. I spent over half of my life attending a Protestant church every Sunday, and through that and my own research, have a burgeoning though far from comprehensive knowledge of the three major monotheisms and of non-religious belief systems as well. The reasons for my loss of faith are disillusionment and indifference, both of which have grabbed hold of me in a way I cannot deny to myself. I'm really not here to offend anyone.

If you claim to have atheist friends and still believe that religion is the only basis for morality, I don't know what else to say to you. I will also not refute my suspicion that you have a chip on your shoulder until you respond to this point in further detail.

[1137moiz]

People will argue but I just want to say it's utterly ridiculous how people act like religion exists to make one feel better about oneself and hide from taking responsibility.

Here's my POV, and you're free to argue of course

We have religion because, quite simply, we owe it to Allah (or God). He gives us air, a sense of will, He gives us our brothers, sisters, food, life, companionship, our rights and wrongs, He gives us the ability to think and the ability to act, and every minutest faction of our life is governed and ordained by Him. And in return we have something far less strenuous and difficult than what some people (both extremists and non-religionists) mkae it out to be.

Allah doesn't need our prayers. Prayers are simply a way for us to get closer to Him, to discipline ourselves, add reflection and depth to our lives, a sense both of personal fulfillment and of community. Even if nobody on earth believed in Allah it wouldn't take a fraction away from Him, because it is us who need Him.

Religion has been misrepresented and misused for eons. My personal opinion (and of course people will disagree, and I do not say this with offensive intent) is that any religion or belief system that is not Islam is intrinsically at least slightly changed from the original, and contains some ultimately harmful faction.

Extremism, of course, is wrong. There are some people who spend their lives praying but are a blight upon their neighbours, and there are others who may be the best people on this earth but (in the Islamic viewpoint) waste their good deeds and producitve life simply by not signing the most important article, the article of faith. There are also some wonderful people of faith, and some horrible people outside it. Many people fall within these two extremes.

Religion does not automatically make you "good" but, if applied correctly, gradually and steadily moves you towards that. There are a number of agnostics and atheists who would put some Muslims/Christians/etc to shame with their inherent goodness. If there is an atheist, agnostic, or disbeliever in religion of any sort who is good, that in itself is a mercy from Allah and another reason for them to submit to Him. Their lungs, hearts, eyes, and atoms are already doing so. Yes, there is plenty of goodness without religion, but submission to Allah and your willing acknowledgement and dependence on Him is the ultimate, because it helps overcome a natural human egoism that may tend to suppose oneself "self-sufficient".

Nor is it not some kind of opium to be used only whenever feeling bad--indeed the Quran admonishes those who forget Allah when in good times and only remember Him when desperate, because you should ideally be conscious of being under Allah's sovereignty and beneficience at all times.

That's my take, anyway.

[grunge]

Originally Posted by mindless slogging Most have grown up on Dawkin's philosophy, the same guy who campaigns against religious people's proselytising and then spends thousands on a bus campaign with posters such as, 'there probably is no God', and even spoke against the tradition of chapels in Oxbridge colleges. And lets also not forget Hitchen's who calls Mother Teresa ''a leathery old bat''. The great morality and tolerance on display there.

i am sure i can dig up examples of religious people doing worse things.

We do not need religion to have a sense of morality...Proof?...Religious communities have no less incidence of any crime than any of the more liberal communities...

i or you(im hoping) would not be on the street raping,killing people regardless of whether we are theists/atheists.

[grunge]

Originally Posted by chaiwala A good question. When I am going through tough times, I generally focus on things that I can do to fix the situation. Sometimes, this includes getting help from other willing humans too.

Excellent post..

[grunge]

Originally Posted by cornered-tigers I know i am wasting my time here with teenagers posting on this post who think they know it all and have seen it all, and they think they are socrates or something

Rubbish..most atheists i know are adults who have gradually drifted away form religion following a long period of inner delimmna.

[James]

Originally Posted by cornered-tigers I know i am wasting my time here with teenagers posting on this post who think they know it all and have seen it all, and they think they are socrates or something

I want to live in a world where theists and atheists can live alongside each other, enjoy each other's company and tolerate each other. But reading posts like this, I can't really blame society for the disparity between the two groups. You managed to cram an unbelievable amount of ignorance into that short sentence above.

[blinding light]

Just revised sociology, so I guess I'm a little quipped to answer this.

Is religion really important in your lives?

2 perspectives to this.

If you look at society as a whole, then it really, really comes down to where you are living. In any post-mod/post-industrialised country, then yes. Most members of that type of a society do not believe religion is all that important. In the years following modernity and post-industrialisation, it has been noticed that the State, and education as structures (or building blocks of society) have now taken the front seat. In a Western, or modernised country, you would see that the role the State or education plays in the daily lives is of far more importance than anything else. In the same vein, family and religion have taken the backseat. Now I've yet to study religion as a respect in regard to Sociology, but I have studied family, and the most important concerns they have is the decline in the entire form of family. They argue that in a typical modern society, various means (such as the media) project the values that are mainly capitalistic in nature. In order to achieve that, the State and education set forth regulations and curriculums. In this picture however, there is minimal room for religion to add to capitalism and family as they stop the women from becoming a labour force. Therefore the reason why in many modern societies, family and religion are in decline.

Second is the micro approach - focusing on the individuals. Which, personally, for me is the real reason. Upbringing, social and financial conditions of an individual play a vital role in determining their connection with religion. Judging from my surroundings, living in an Islamic state and seeing how the image of Islam is being tarnished globally, I personally am brought closer to my religion. Similarly, everyone else has a different take on life and religion, resulting from different experiences and thus, it would be unfair to lump them all together. A person next to me may have had a complete faith-renewal and may be strictly abiding by the rules of religion, while someone else may be moving away from religion and more towards Atheism (e.g Whippy).

IMO - its just simple enough when you say be honest to yourself. Religion is a very controversial topic nowadays. Religion is very personal and Allah knows whats in our hearts, when we appear religious as a farce or when we really mean it. Staying true to yourself about your religious values, and you can live in any kind of society.

[blinding light]

Originally Posted by 1137moiz People will argue but I just want to say it's utterly ridiculous how people act like religion exists to make one feel better about oneself and hide from taking responsibility. Here's my POV, and you're free to argue of course We have religion because, quite simply, we owe it to Allah (or God). He gives us air, a sense of will, He gives us our brothers, sisters, food, life, companionship, our rights and wrongs, He gives us the ability to think and the ability to act, and every minutest faction of our life is governed and ordained by Him. And in return we have something far less strenuous and difficult than what some people (both extremists and non-religionists) mkae it out to be. Allah doesn't need our prayers. Prayers are simply a way for us to get closer to Him, to discipline ourselves, add reflection and depth to our lives, a sense both of personal fulfillment and of community. Even if nobody on earth believed in Allah it wouldn't take a fraction away from Him, because it is us who need Him. Religion has been misrepresented and misused for eons. My personal opinion (and of course people will disagree, and I do not say this with offensive intent) is that any religion or belief system that is not Islam is intrinsically at least slightly changed from the original, and contains some ultimately harmful faction. Extremism, of course, is wrong. There are some people who spend their lives praying but are a blight upon their neighbours, and there are others who may be the best people on this earth but (in the Islamic viewpoint) waste their good deeds and producitve life simply by not signing the most important article, the article of faith. There are also some wonderful people of faith, and some horrible people outside it. Many people fall within these two extremes. Religion does not automatically make you "good" but, if applied correctly, gradually and steadily moves you towards that. There are a number of agnostics and atheists who would put some Muslims/Christians/etc to shame with their inherent goodness. If there is an atheist, agnostic, or disbeliever in religion of any sort who is good, that in itself is a mercy from Allah and another reason for them to submit to Him. Their lungs, hearts, eyes, and atoms are already doing so. Yes, there is plenty of goodness without religion, but submission to Allah and your willing acknowledgement and dependence on Him is the ultimate, because it helps overcome a natural human egoism that may tend to suppose oneself "self-sufficient". Nor is it not some kind of opium to be used only whenever feeling bad--indeed the Quran admonishes those who forget Allah when in good times and only remember Him when desperate, because you should ideally be conscious of being under Allah's sovereignty and beneficience at all times. That's my take, anyway.

CLASS!

A great post!! Agree with everything you said in respect to the question you raised! Bravo!

[kkmix]

As they say, too much knowledge is dangerous, and eventually makes you ignorant. I see lot of that in this thread.

And I agree with Moiz's post above.

[James]

Would also like to congratulate moiz on a very nice post.

[cric_craze]

moiz, give me a hug

[chaiwala]

While moiz did make a good post that describes the nature of religion well, I just want to remind readers that the OP was about whether religion is important and still necessary. We had a pretty nice discussion going on that topic, so I want to encourage posters to keep contributing to it.

[KingKhanWC]

Religion means nothing, there are many with allsorts of strange practices.

I'm more interested in the truth about our existance and why we are here.

Islam is not a religion, it's a practical way of life for this short time on Earth. It's the truth that's why I try my best to follow it.

[1137moiz]

Religion is basically your fundamental outlook on life. There are people from all sorts of belief systems, ranging from Muslims like Anjum Choudhry to atheists like Christopher Hitchens, who act like jerks trying to get their points across. To try and box out a separate portion for religion is pretty asinine, imho, which is why I think debates like this are flawed

[1137moiz]

Originally Posted by blinding light CLASS! A great post!! Agree with everything you said in respect to the question you raised! Bravo!

Thanks, yours was a superb little read.

Also thanks Kkmix, Whippy and the chap wanting to give a hug

[cricfan4ever]

Islam is a way of life more than a religion...it is the identity of Muslim Ummah...that is where we derive all of our morality, ethics etc from...

speaking from a Muslim's perspective, our faith is very important to us though all of us may not be pious followers/practitioners but faith is critical...we wouldn't exist without God period.

[cricfan4ever]

brilliant post moiz bhai!!!

[Cricketismylife]

Originally Posted by chaiwala However, to be fair, most decent religious people I have met are very good at being personal with their beliefs.

fixed for you.

Do whatever you want to do with your time and life- just don't tell me you are better than me or be a preacher- be it christian, muslim or Hindu!

The ones who understand don't fixate on the trivial and act superior/start conflict.

"othe amlan de hone ne navede kise na teri zaat/religion puchni"

[Striver]

Originally Posted by Cricketismylife fixed for you. Do whatever you want to do with your time and life- just don't tell me you are better than me or be a preacher- be it christian, muslim or Hindu! The ones who understand don't fixate on the trivial and act superior/start conflict. "othe amlan de hone ne navede kise na teri zaat/religion puchni"

lol at your comprehension of this little piece... when he refers to zaat he is referring to caste...

and also

where is "othe"?
what kind of amals are you talking about?
who is that "kise"?

[wasim-fan]

Originally Posted by Khubi what i see having met a lot of muslims and other religionists is that they tend to let their beliefs affect their lives too much and judge every event of their life on basis of religion. such things oftenn lead the religious peoples to take things to too extremes and unbeliviers (atheists) start to dislike them for their such habbits like "god exts u should believe, eternal hell awaits you, our holy figures are to be accepted". why i post this is because two of my friwnds had a big fight on it today was one who was atheist was too tired of such stuff. whats your views on this?

I can only say for myself. I am not a great believer in religion but my friends and family are. I have been fortunate enough to have a muslim, sikh, catholic, a jain and even Parsi as a friends for some time. But they have never made me conscious their religious beliefs. They certanly don't wear their religion on their sleeve and they certainly dont preach to others about how they are better off

[Cricketismylife]

Originally Posted by Striver lol at your comprehension of this little piece... when he refers to zaat he is referring to caste... and also where is "othe"? what kind of amals are you talking about? who is that "kise"?

meaning isnt to be taken literally in this quote...
Zaat/caste means in the above reference means there will be no distinction done - it doesn't mean literally caste.
The way I understand it is :
No distinction based on religion/caste/creed/color/monetery position will be done- you shall be judged by the deeds you have done.

I was giving this quote to show that the ones who understand think that way. I am not saying I believe in any of that- d.day etc.

But I respect that sort of thinking- makes sense to me. What doesn't make sense is the literal meaning of a verse and then using it to boost one's own ego/using it literally or memorizing.

this, I am saying, is a huge problem with religion:
ilam padaya te amal na kita, teri kis kaam kitiyan kaza

No use memorising/reading/literally using stuff without understanding the deeper meaning.

If the 10th century text (100 BC written text) says something doesn't mean that we have to follow it with our eyes closed. We have to understand what context it was said in and if its a metaphor/figure of speech.

no point working backwards and creating examples/proofs and then going- see my religion is better coz it was "already advanced" etc lol.

Anyways, as far as religion being an absolute must- there are a lot around- most find one. If not then its fine as well.

Seeing how much hatred and violence different religions cause atheists don't sound any worse to me.

[Garuda]

To me religion is a beautiful thing created by human when there were no law of land. During that time following a religion made human being civil and social (different than animals).

Now time changed, we have civil code of conduct in each country and almost all of them follow the core of any religion (live and let live).

Personally, after the civic laws we are following, religion is redundant. It just creates more friction than helping our society.

I am okay with someone praying or doing his rituals as per his wish, but institutional religion is making more harm than good these days.

[praveen]

Human beings are a part of the race along with so many other species. Many species have existed long before we came into existence. Take dinosaurs for example. There was god then too, and after 65 million years, we came into existence and we started the concept of religion. God is one, just a source which gives us strength and belief. I'm assuming every species follows its own interpretation of that one source which drives them. We may not know about that, but humans approach that source through Religion.

[Cricketismylife]

Ever awesome Kabir...

Maala To Kar Mein Phire, Jeebh Phire Mukh Mahin
Manua To Chahun Dish Phire, Yeh To Simran Nahin

Translation
The rosary rotating by the hand, the tongue twisting in the mouth,
With the mind wandering everywhere, this isn't meditation

(Counting the Rosary, Repeating Mantras, If the Mind is Traveling - this is not meditation)

Meaning

Control the mind, not the beads or the words.

another Bulleh Shah
raatin jaagain tay sheikh sadaawin
raatin jagan kuttay,taithon uttay
saari raat oh pehra dinday
dinay raday jaa suttay,taithon uttay
malak da dar mool na chhadaday
bhaawain sau sau painday juttay,taithon uttay
oye uth bulleaa too vi rabb dhiyaa lai
nahi tan baazi lai gaaye kuttay,taithon uttay.