Was Muhammad Aamir really a great Talent

[Namak_Halaal]

Originally Posted by talhasyed hmmm this thread is still going. Well i was just thinking about it and after much thought i couldn't help but feel fawad alam just seems like a much better batsmen than tendulkar and has greater talent. It just seems like tendulkar is a lot more hyped up whilst fawad is just more solid. I mean its unfortunate that due to poor selection fawad hasn't been picked for the team much but just look at the stats. Since fawad has played 3 games, lets compare that with tendulkars first 3 games so well its clearly obvious from the above stats that fawad is just as talented if not more compared to scahin not only with the bat but even in the field. To top it off in those three matches fawad's team win % (33.3333%) is also higher then sachin's team win % (0%). Yes op.....that is how stupid you sound i can only think (and hope) that you are a newbie to cricket and will hopefully learn to appreciate talent when you see it.

Hai hai hai!

I cannot see Statsguru coming back from this epic phainty. PWND!

[cricketindiafan]

No need to look at those numbers. The only young bowler in recent times who looked like he could top 250-300 test wickets. If you don't think he was a great talent, you are not a cricket fan.

[Sherlock]

Originally Posted by Spiderguy252 Irfan Pathan > Pakistani Fixer.

[statsguru]

Originally Posted by MR__KHAN__JI Is this thread still going ?

Yes. People like you are contributing. So yes. It´s still going

[statsguru]

Originally Posted by bmwduran FAILED ATTEMPT! STATS just tell one story, Pakistan lost is because it has worst batting lineup in its entire history, Amer bowls balls that even Akram could not bowl at his age, so go figure out another way of demeaning him,

How a failed attempt? Did Pakistan really had that bad batting line up? Are younas, Yousaf, Afridi rubbish batter? Aamir had also the services of Ajmal and Asif and still couldnt win matches.

Btw what happened to those rubbish batter when amir got banned?
They won you series against SL, NZ and no.1 England suddenly after amir was banned.

[statsguru]

Originally Posted by Sherlock He is to bowling what Kohli is to batting.

Please dont insult Kohli.

[statsguru]

Originally Posted by Namak_Halaal MA was the youngest ever bowler to reach 50 TEST wickets. MA's name is on the Lord's Honour's board. Few facts Statsman failed to mention. Not to mention, Statsguru has failed to explain why he picked Irfan Pathan for his comparison (really he should be comparing with more bowlers). He will not tell you, but I will. You see, when Statsguru goes into hiding, he spends his time searching for players which fit his bias comparsions for the purpose demeaning Pakistani players. This is why his stats fail, he does not provide any form of justification other than he is an Indian. Statsguru is actually WannabeGuru.

Mr. Namak. you have the most post in this thread and yet havnt bothered to read the OP once.

I compared him to Irfan because in my opinion he is the most rubbish bowler to play for India. But even that most rubbish bowler, pie chuker, spinner has won matches and series unlike your so called best talent to come from subcontinent etc.

[statsguru]

Originally Posted by TalhaSyed Hmmm this thread is still going. Well I was just thinking about it and after much thought I couldn't help but feel Fawad Alam just seems like a much better batsmen than Tendulkar and has greater talent. It just seems like Tendulkar is a lot more hyped up whilst Fawad is just more solid. I mean its unfortunate that due to poor selection Fawad hasn't been picked for the team much but just look at the stats. Since Fawad has played 3 games, lets compare that with Tendulkars first 3 games So well its clearly obvious from the above stats that Fawad is just as talented if not more compared to Scahin not only with the bat but even in the field. To top it off in those three matches Fawad's team win % (33.3333%) is also higher then Sachin's team win % (0%). Yes OP.....that is how stupid you sound I can only think (and hope) that you are a newbie to cricket and will hopefully learn to appreciate talent when you see it.

Well on PP even Nawaz Sharif is better batter than Tendulkar. I´m actually using the same criteria for Pakistani bowlers that is used for Indian batters. But poor hypos just change thier opinions when it come to Pakistani players.

[statsguru]

Originally Posted by Ironcat OP: Here is a very simple way to debunk your logic. The greatest fast bowler to play in 2000s (who I'll let you figure out the name of) had the following stats after 14 tests: Matches: 14 Wickets: 47 Best: 6/47 Ave: 30.55 You had a nice theory. Only you forgot to test it.

I took Irfan´s first 14 matches because aamir played 14. Read the OP and then jump into the dicussion.

[statsguru]

Originally Posted by Namak_Halaal Hai hai hai! I cannot see Statsguru coming back from this epic phainty. PWND!

´
Its you who run away from my threads when you get a epic Phainty from me.

[Namak_Halaal]

Originally Posted by statsguru ´ Mr. idiot. I took Irfan´s first 14 matches because aamir played 14. Read the OP and then jump into the dicussion.

Name calling cos you were busted? What you didn't explain is why Irfan. Why not take another bowlers's first 14 matches?

Originally Posted by statsguru ´ Its you who run away from my threads when you get a epic Phainty from me.

I'm still here.

I see you have no response to post #156 (other than name calling).

What are you going to do next? Come back in 2 months and post stats comparing one Batsmen vs one Bowler?

Please do, we all need a laugh from time to time.

[statsguru]

Originally Posted by ecstatic_freak Alrite lts go by Indian logic lol Wasim waqar shoaib were toothless compared to The TALL and mighty Ishant, balwinder singh, Kapil Dev, Madan lal, parveen kumar, rp singhs, i mean how could pakistani bowler even come close to 'em but going by your stats, Wasim and Waqar have more wickets INTL wickets then all the Indian bowlers put together that TERRORIZED the batsmen post 2000.

Well that has 2 world cup and your bowler who TERRORIZED the opposition never won any.

BTW

362 Imran + 373 Waqar + 414 Wasim + 178 Akhtar + Amir 51 < 619 Kumble + 434 Kapil + 406 Bhajji

1378 < 1459

Just Kuble, Kapil and Bhajji has more wickets than Imran, Waqar, Wasim, Akhter and amir

Always check the stats b4 you speak because you look fool when your arguements are proven wrong.

[amlafan79]

he had gr8 potential...now tht gr8st talent ever is fanatic thing i guess
bt for 18-19 year old he was developing at rapid speed before that fixing happened

[statsguru]

Originally Posted by Namak_Halaal Name calling cos you were busted? What you didn't explain is why Irfan. Why not take another bowlers's first 14 matches? I'm still here. I see you have no response to post #156 (other than name calling). What are you going to do next? Come back in 2 months and post stats comparing one Batsmen vs one Bowler? Please do, we all need a laugh from time to time.

You are proving urself again an idiot. You have quoted the post that i wrote in reply to Ironcat. I have qouted your post in the post # 167. go and read that.

[Namak_Halaal]

Originally Posted by statsguru You are proving urself again an idiot. You have quoted the post that i wrote in reply to Ironcat. I have qouted your post in the post # 167. go and read that.

Says the disgruntled Indian.

Your post was countered by Ironcat's additional stats which raised the point that some of the greatest bowlers to ever grace the game had worse stats than MA!

Why don't you compare MA with the first 14 matches of India's best bowlers and not an all rounder like IP?

Do you have the bottle? No you do not.

Why not compare MA's first 14 matches with great bowlers such as Warne, Akram, and Younis?

Your aim is to belittle MA even if it means comparing an All-Rounder with a Bowler.

You are basing your judgement on the first 14 matches?

In that case SRT was crap compared to Fawad Alam, not because SRT took 73 matches to score his first ODI century, but based on your warped logic of course.

[Namak_Halaal]

^^^^^

Faced with the simple challenge, Statsguru is about to bail.

[murphyslaw79]

YES he was!!!! Stats are just stats. I would rather believe what I see myself and hear the opinion of the Sky pundits who could not stop singing praises of him and going all gaga over his talent.

U are welcome to produce a 100 stats, but learn to see beyond them at times.

[PlanetPakistan]

After his first 7 or 8 test matches Aamer was averaging close to 40, even at that time it was very clear to me that he is one of the finest talents to ever play the game.

You have to watch the game..

[TalhaSyed]

Originally Posted by statsguru Well on PP even Nawaz Sharif is better batter than Tendulkar. I´m actually using the same criteria for Pakistani bowlers that is used for Indian batters. But poor hypos just change thier opinions when it come to Pakistani players.

But;...but.......but.....I proved with stats that Fawd is better then Sachin....how could it possible be wrong

[umarakmalrocks]

Originally Posted by TalhaSyed But;...but.......but.....I proved with stats that Fawd is better then Sachin....how could it possible be wrong

Because Sachin actually went on to make more runs at a higher average?

Aamir didn't.

See the fallacy of your logic?

[ecstatic_freak]

Originally Posted by statsguru Well that bootyshaker has 2 world cup and your bowler who TERRORIZED the opposition never won any. BTW 362 Imran + 373 Waqar + 414 Wasim + 178 Akhtar + Amir 51 < 619 Kumble + 434 Kapil + 406 Bhajji 1378 < 1459 Just Kuble, Kapil and Bhajji has more wickets than Imran, Waqar, Wasim, Akhter and amir Always check the stats b4 you speak because you look fool when your arguements are proven wrong.

So you start jumping on your keyboard without even reading the posts? it clearly said POST 2000, re-do the stats and embarrass yourself more. Thanks for re-echoing the point that Indians never had quality fast bowlers by bringing Kumble and Bhajji into the mix.

The first win of his career was a world cup final, he is even bigger than your Bhagwan who labored for two decades to win a WC at home :pwned

[ecstatic_freak]

Originally Posted by umarakmalrocks Because Sachin actually went on to make more runs at a higher average? Aamir didn't. See the fallacy of your logic?

Yes and Irfan went onto break all bowling records, See how genuine is your logic, told you before, at your best, you are a poor man's N_H

[wrongun]

I saw him play in Oz tests, he was better than Roach ( and Roach is a fine bowler, potential great).

He was both younger & quicker than Roach, I gave him great potential.

Then he went to England and I noticed (over TV) he had slowed his pace to gain more swing & control, perfect for the conditions (oz requires pace through the air/bounce). So smart for an 18 year old.

Inswinger, outswinger, pace, bouncer, yorker, intelligence I have NEVER seen a bowler that complete at that age and I have been watching cricket seriously for almost 25 years (33 year old). Not McGrath, not Brett Lee, not Curtly, not Imran was that good that young.

Not saying for sure he would have been as great as them, but he surely had the potential.

The age at which he performed his feats must be considered- the difference between say 25 & 27 or 24 & 26 is not so great. But to do things at 17-19 which others did at 22-24 is a miracluous difference and speaks of potential greatness (as I admit it made Sachin great, Viv great etc).

[Poison]

Lol at OP. Go bury your nose in another statistics book and stop watching cricket.

Wasim's stats were not the greatest ever but many contemporary players rate him as the greatest bowler they've ever faced. Tendulkar is statistically superior to every batsman in the contemporary era but not every contemporary bowler rates him as the best batsman they've bowled to. Amir's talent was beyond exceptional, his fledgling career was exciting to nearly every genuine cricket fan in the world.

He had everything. Pace, bounce, swing both ways. At 18. Most of all he was INTELLIGENT. His potential was unmatched by any bowler since perhaps Akhtar & Steyn.

[statsguru]

Originally Posted by ecstatic_freak So you start jumping on your keyboard without even reading the posts? it clearly said POST 2000, re-do the stats and embarrass yourself more. Thanks for re-echoing the point that Indians never had quality fast bowlers by bringing Kumble and Bhajji into the mix. The first win of his career was a world cup final, he is even bigger than your Bhagwan who labored for two decades to win a WC at home :pwned

So what if Sachin won it after 2 Decades. Your bloody KAPTAAN won it after 3 Decades.

Why bring that post 2000 Arguement?????????????

Going by your stupid logic Naoomal Jaoomal alone took more wicket than whole pakistan pre 1947.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...tch/62605.html

[Poison]

Originally Posted by wrongun I saw him play in Oz tests, he was better than Roach ( and Roach is a fine bowler, potential great). He was both younger & quicker than Roach, I gave him great potential. Then he went to England and I noticed (over TV) he had slowed his pace to gain more swing & control, perfect for the conditions (oz requires pace through the air/bounce). So smart for an 18 year old. Inswinger, outswinger, pace, bouncer, yorker, intelligence I have NEVER seen a bowler that complete at that age and I have been watching cricket seriously for almost 25 years (33 year old). Not McGrath, not Brett Lee, not Curtly, not Imran was that good that young. Not saying for sure he would have been as great as them, but he surely had the potential. The age at which he performed his feats must be considered- the difference between say 25 & 27 or 24 & 26 is not so great. But to do things at 17-19 which others did at 22-24 is a miracluous difference and speaks of potential greatness (as I admit it made Sachin great, Viv great etc).

If I wasn't trolling this is in essence what I would've posted ... well said wrongun.

[ecstatic_freak]

Originally Posted by statsguru So what if Sachin won it after 2 Decades. Your bloody KAPTAAN won it after 3 Decades. Why bring that post 2000 Arguement????????????? Going by your stupid logic Naoomal Jaoomal alone took more wicket than whole pakistan pre 1947. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...tch/62605.html

Doesn't change the fact that he won a world cup final in his first game, we just call him Kuptaan, not Bhagwaan, so how does it feel that a Bhagwan won a "clean world cup" after two decades of hard labor?

[statsguru]

Originally Posted by Poison Lol at OP. Go bury your nose in another statistics book and stop watching cricket. Wasim's stats were not the greatest ever but many contemporary players rate him as the greatest bowler they've ever faced. Tendulkar is statistically superior to every batsman in the contemporary era but not every contemporary bowler rates him as the best batsman they've bowled to. Amir's talent was beyond exceptional, his fledgling career was exciting to nearly every genuine cricket fan in the world. He had everything. Pace, bounce, swing both ways. At 18. Most of all he was INTELLIGENT. His potential was unmatched by any bowler since perhaps Akhtar & Steyn.

Stat-less garbage. I dont take it seriously.

Which idiot tols you that every batsman rated Wasim as the best?? go and have an early shower.

[ecstatic_freak]

Originally Posted by statsguru Well done. You kill Salman Taseer even for visiting the christian lady but defend James for insulting Allah, Quran and Prophet? Shameless people.

You must hate yourself as i'd not embarrass myself/every post.

[ecstatic_freak]

Originally Posted by statsguru Stat-less garbage. I dont take it seriously. Which idiot tols you that every batsman rated Wasim as the best?? go and have an early shower.

Funny coming from you as your team was once lead by a "bravo" who was so proud to be spanked by Sobers

[ecstatic_freak]

[QUOTE=statsguru;4806553]

Originally Posted by ecstatic_freak Doesn't change the fact that he won a world cup final in his first game, QUOTE] That was T20. Unfortunately fixer hasnt played a ODI WC yet.BTW you Sher e Pakistan is struggling to win ODI WC since 2 decades as well and has failed handsomely.

bhagwan never won a T20 WC, must be embarrassing as its the easiest format and he still not good enough to make it to the team, Stick to the topic though, talk bout a genius that spins the ball from 14 yards runup

[statsguru]

[QUOTE=ecstatic_freak;4806561]

Originally Posted by statsguru bhagwan never won a T20 WC, must be embarrassing as its the easiest format and he still not good enough to make it to the team, Stick to the topic though, talk bout a genius that spins the ball from 14 yards runup

Yes that genius has T20 WC too. Unlike amir he was MOM in the final.

[Namak_Halaal]

@ Statsguru

Why don't you compare MA with the first 14 matches of India's best bowlers and not an all rounders like IP?

Why not compare MA's first 14 matches with great bowlers such as Warne, Akram, and Younis?

If you really wanted to compare MA with India's worse bowler, how about the likes of Raina or even SRT?

Do not do a Lehman's now!

[ecstatic_freak]

[QUOTE=statsguru;4806569]

Originally Posted by ecstatic_freak Yes that genius has T20 WC too. Unlike amir he was MOM in the final.

Oh ya, i dont think Sachin played in 07 LOL MOM for watching it on TV?

[wrongun]

Originally Posted by Poison If I wasn't trolling this is in essence what I would've posted ... well said wrongun.

Thank you. Honestly the deniers are worthy of trolling and there is a difference between greatness achieved and potential greatness (Kambli & Sachin, Bruce Reid and Wasim). But man, the kid was something else.

There are a few guys you just sit down to watch, Warne, Steyn, Gayle, Amir was one.

[Namak_Halaal]

Originally Posted by ecstatic_freak Oh ya, i dont think Sachin played in 07 LOL MOM for watching it on TV?

Correct. SRT bailed from the 2007 T20 WC, and then India then won it. Remember, SRT first claimed he would never play T20s, it was beneath him, fast forward to today.

Keeping in tradtion with the SRT's losing curse.

[ecstatic_freak]

Lets not underestimate him, he is a smart kid, lets hear from him, so Mr. Statsguru, what is a fast bowler to you? what is the basic requirement fora FAST bowler, forget other qualities, we'll come to it too but tell us what do you think a fast bowler should be like? no names, just list the qualities cause Irfan to many of us is not even a fast bowler so this comparison is useless. You have cracked a lot of jokes in the thread, bout time you crack one more. (Hes going to go quiet now)

[TalhaSyed]

Originally Posted by umarakmalrocks Because Sachin actually went on to make more runs at a higher average? Aamir didn't. See the fallacy of your logic?

So many things wrong with this post.

Firstly, my comparison was Sachin and Fawad, not Aamir

Secondly, Fawad hasnt been given the chance other wise according to the stats he is better then Sachin

Thirdly, this isnt my logic its statsguru logic

Lastly, I was being fricking sarcastic! Im not actually the moron who is too dumb to see when a player is playing well if the stats dont add up.

[statsguru]

Ok guys please consider this an honest and innocent post.

1. 1 guy has won more matches and series than the other. Infact the other has not won a series.
2. 1 one guy is an honest cricketer and the other is a match fixer. So how is aamir better than irfan?????

Plz answer each of my points separately.

[Ironcat]

Originally Posted by statsguru I took Irfan´s first 14 matches because aamir played 14. Read the OP and then jump into the dicussion.

And your point is?

OP: Ferrari has brakes in it. Ford Focus has brakes in it. So, Ferrari must = Ford Focus.

Common sense: Err, but don't all car have brakes in them?

OP: I find your lack of faith disturbing.

[statsguru]

Originally Posted by Ironcat And your point is? OP: Ferrari has brakes in it. Ford Focus has brakes in it. So, Ferrari must = Ford Focus. Common sense: Err, but don't all car have brakes in them? OP: I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Typical Pakistani fan. Cant defend amir with stats instead come up with such idiotic posts.

[Sherlock]

Originally Posted by statsguru Please dont insult Kohli.

Shame that thing you call "brain" isn't breaking-down what I said.

[Sherlock]

Originally Posted by statsguru Typical Pakistani fan. Cant defend amir with stats instead come up with such idiotic posts.

I think your sig aptly applies your logic.

[Namak_Halaal]

I knew it. Statsguru is all bluff and bluster.

He will not compare MA with the first 14 matches of India's best bowlers or against great bowlers such as Warne, Akram, and Younis but has the audacity and ignorance to compare MA with an all-rounder.

I wonder why.

[kerala porotta]

Aamir is one sensational talent who can still perform better than Irfan even if he is not going to bowl for another 5 years...

[munna_]

Ok so if IP was really such a great talent as compared to MA... where has his whole talent vanished then now that he even fails to perform in domestic T20 leagues?

Aren't talent and class permanent?

[Ironcat]

Originally Posted by statsguru Typical Pakistani fan. Cant defend amir with stats instead come up with such idiotic posts.

I already debunked your lame theory with stats:

Originally Posted by Ironcat OP: Here is a very simple way to debunk your logic. The greatest fast bowler to play in 2000s (who I'll let you figure out the name of) had the following stats after 14 tests: Matches: 14 Wickets: 47 Best: 6/47 Ave: 30.55

But, the thickness through which it had to be drilled was more than I expected. So, here is a direct link:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...iew=cumulative

[Ironcat]

And a couple more.

India's own left-arm wonder:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...iew=cumulative

The world's top wicket taker:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...iew=cumulative

[munna_]

next week we'll be seeing a similar thread questioning Mohammad Asif's talent by comparing him with Sreesanth

[khalil1986]

Big fail by OP, go in to hiding pal and than later call some posters out in a few months saying they ran away LOL.

[Imran_A]

statsguru is just winding us up. failed attempt of that. hah.

[Bilal7]

What a howler of a thread, statsguru has just embarrassed himself pretty bad.

[pinger]

I can only go on what I had seen of him as an Australian fan, and he certainly looked like a special talent.

[zubair007]

Originally Posted by Poison Lol at OP. Go bury your nose in another statistics book and stop watching cricket. Wasim's stats were not the greatest ever but many contemporary players rate him as the greatest bowler they've ever faced. Tendulkar is statistically superior to every batsman in the contemporary era but not every contemporary bowler rates him as the best batsman they've bowled to. Amir's talent was beyond exceptional, his fledgling career was exciting to nearly every genuine cricket fan in the world. He had everything. Pace, bounce, swing both ways. At 18. Most of all he was INTELLIGENT. His potential was unmatched by any bowler since perhaps Akhtar & Steyn.

Nice twisting of words:
Here's mine: Wasim's stats were not the greatest and therefore not all contemporary players rate him as the greatest bowler they've ever faced.
Tendulkar is statistically superior to every batsman in the contemporary era therefore most contemporary bowlers rates him as the best batsman they've bowled to.

[zubair007]

On the topic, yes, I think Amir was a great TALENT, not a great bowler yet. His greed put paid to his great potential and now he will forever be tainted no matter how many wickets he takes, that is, if he ever comes back and plays again. What a waste of potential!

[Indiafan]

Someone needs to look up the word talent. No one claimed he had as yet achieved great things. But no one can deny he was the greatest bowling talent to emerge for a long time

[statsguru]

Originally Posted by ecstatic_freak Lets not underestimate him, he is a smart kid, lets hear from him, so Mr. Statsguru, what is a fast bowler to you? what is the basic requirement fora FAST bowler, forget other qualities, we'll come to it too but tell us what do you think a fast bowler should be like? no names, just list the qualities cause Irfan to many of us is not even a fast bowler so this comparison is useless. You have cracked a lot of jokes in the thread, bout time you crack one more. (Hes going to go quiet now)

you guys are so fond of stats then what happened in this thread? why now look factor beyond stats all of a sudden to defend aamir?

Originally Posted by statsguru Ok guys please consider this an honest and innocent post. 1. 1 guy has won more matches and series than the other. Infact the other has not won a series. 2. 1 one guy is an honest cricketer and the other is a match fixer. So how is aamir better than irfan????? Plz answer each of my points separately.

no one is gonna reply to this. i knew it already.

Originally Posted by Ironcat I already debunked your lame theory with stats: But, the thickness through which it had to be drilled was more than I expected. So, here is a direct link: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...iew=cumulative

so who considered mcgrath to be greatest thing to emerge from aus?

that is my point as well. mcgrath turned out to be a great later on in his career. 14 test matches is not a benchmark at all to label some1 as a great, the greatest talent to emerge from subcontinent etc.

if irfan was to abandon cricket there itself after 14 tests then would people have considered him a great too?

jimmy adams ave 66.10 after 24 tests, if he had been caught in match fixing then would you all have considered him a great, or the greatest talent to emerge from carribbean?

no! indians and west indians didnt consider them greats or greatest talents to emerge from their countries b´coz they waited till the career expanded to further years.

pakistanis have a luxury of calling him the bradman of bowling coz he wont be playing next 4 years becoz of his deeds and if he fades after his comeback you guys will make excuses "o he was on a long break, no practice and thus his career has been ruined by salman butt".

a longer and prolonged career only exposes weaknessess and can mount to failures.

[BD-fan]

Any team would die for to have an Aamir type talent in their team. That should tell you what you need to know.

[Sherlock]

It's okay guys. statsguru's idiotic replies have put paid to this thread.

Btw all people need to know is this : "Whinger 63% Loser 35% & 2 % Thread derailer / Thread spoiler."

[ecstatic_freak]

Originally Posted by statsguru you guys are so fond of stats then what happened in this thread? why now look factor beyond stats all of a sudden to defend aamir?.

So funny, where is the big pink nose. Whats next for you? Wasim vs Bhajji? both belong to 400 club, should make for a good comparison since you have a habit of comparing pacers with spinners.

[Namak_Halaal]

Personaly this thread is the perfect reason for introducing a new PP award - Fail of the Week - FOTW.

[Ironcat]

Originally Posted by statsguru so who considered mcgrath to be greatest thing to emerge from aus? that is my point as well. mcgrath turned out to be a great later on in his career. 14 test matches is not a benchmark at all to label some1 as a great, the greatest talent to emerge from subcontinent etc. if irfan was to abandon cricket there itself after 14 tests then would people have considered him a great too? jimmy adams ave 66.10 after 24 tests, if he had been caught in match fixing then would you all have considered him a great, or the greatest talent to emerge from carribbean? no! indians and west indians didnt consider them greats or greatest talents to emerge from their countries b´coz they waited till the career expanded to further years. pakistanis have a luxury of calling him the bradman of bowling coz he wont be playing next 4 years becoz of his deeds and if he fades after his comeback you guys will make excuses "o he was on a long break, no practice and thus his career has been ruined by salman butt". a longer and prolonged career only exposes weaknessess and can mount to failures.

So, let me get this straight. You are now AGREEING that the stats from the first 14 tests don't mean a thing.

That is, the stats in your OP mean diddly squat. They prove nothing. Nada. "We must wait for a longer period of time before using these stats."

Correct? Then, do you mind erasing your OP? Can we re-open this case 40 tests later? Or do you still want to embarrass yourself en masse?

As an FYI, no one on this forum believes in Aamir's great talent based on his 14 tests. They were fortunate enough to see him bowl to make that judgment.

[abdulhafeez306]

Originally Posted by statsguru Well that has 2 world cup and your bowler who TERRORIZED the opposition never won any. BTW 362 Imran + 373 Waqar + 414 Wasim + 178 Akhtar + Amir 51 < 619 Kumble + 434 Kapil + 406 Bhajji 1378 < 1459 Just Kuble, Kapil and Bhajji has more wickets than Imran, Waqar, Wasim, Akhter and amir Always check the stats b4 you speak because you look fool when your arguements are proven wrong.

I regret to inform you but neither Kumble nor Bhajji were fast bowlers. Heck, Kapil barely passes as a fast bowler. Regardless, these sort of mistakes can be expected from someone who spends all his time on cricinfo and no time watching an actual cricket match.

[abdulhafeez306]

Originally Posted by statsguru Ok guys please consider this an honest and innocent post. 1. 1 guy has won more matches and series than the other. Infact the other has not won a series. 2. 1 one guy is an honest cricketer and the other is a match fixer. So how is aamir better than irfan????? Plz answer each of my points separately.

1. You would pick Dinesh Mongia over Andy Flower? You are arguing that Mudassar Nazar was better than Gavaskar because he won the same amount of matches (with a higher average) in less games. If you can admit that you genuinely believe Mongia was better than Flower and Nazar was better and a bigger match winner than Gavaskar I'll believe that this is not a wind-up thread.

Nazar: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...;type=allround

Gavaskar: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...;type=allround

2. There is no correlation between cricketing talent and honesty. Since this is a a thread about cricketing talent I don't see honesty comes into it. Maybe you could find their individual stats on honesty and incorporate them into their bowling stats and then compare them?

[madaboutcricket]

I love this thread. Some of the Pakistani fans are getting owned nicely by Statsguru. Keep it up SG.

[abdulhafeez306]

Originally Posted by madaboutcricket I love this thread. Some of the Pakistani fans are getting owned nicely by Statsguru. Keep it up SG.

Winding up does not mean owning. Those two are completely different things.

[Uzi]

Originally Posted by madaboutcricket I love this thread. Some of the Pakistani fans are getting owned nicely by Statsguru. Keep it up SG.

How exactly has he 'owned' them?

There is no doubt that Amir was an incredible talent. He could move the ball both ways at pace at the age of 17.

[Sherlock]

Originally Posted by madaboutcricket I love this thread. Some of the Pakistani fans are getting owned nicely by Statsguru. Keep it up SG.

I think you're seeing statsguru getting owned by everyone and their dog

Doesn't surprise me though, as your posts recently are akin to trolling at it's best.

[AdeelSabih]

Debate aside, what a pathetic analysis.

[Sherlock]

Originally Posted by AdeelSabih Debate aside, what a pathetic analysis.

Analysis aside, what a pathetic debate

[SOSami]

Put away the stats and watch cricket, that's what I say.

If Amir had not improved one iota from the last match he played to the day he retired (less the spot-fixing of course) he still would have been a great, such was his level of skill and understanding of the game.

With coaches and ex-bowlers teaching him a few additional tricks, what he could have achieved is mind boggling. Would have been the greatest.

[speed]

statsguru is an example of the typical indian nerd got his head stuck so far up his book(cricinfo stat's page) thinks he smart but when it comes to the real world most nerds simply can't hack it lack of communication skill etc, this thread being the perfect example.

imo cricinfo stats page was the biggest factor in all the Indian trolls coming out the closet.

a known fact most Indians believe in quantity over quality

[90MPH]

Originally Posted by Indiafan Someone needs to look up the word talent. No one claimed he had as yet achieved great things. But no one can deny he was the greatest bowling talent to emerge for a long time

Well said and end of the debate.

Did anyone watch Amirs Test spells in 2011 ? Especially in England.

Anyone who watched him without bias would say no doubt he was a special talent, and certainly had the potential to be a great.

Sadly he will not be, but some people are so thick that they can only look up stats to work out if someone is talented.

[90MPH]

Also Michael Holding was so astonished Amir learned so much in so little time.
In fact for me he was above Wasim Akram age wise because Akram was not swinging the ball early on in his career (Akram also had a high Test bowling average for a few year or 2 when he started) so for me it proves these stats prove nothing.

[90MPH]

Originally Posted by Uzi How exactly has he 'owned' them? There is no doubt that Amir was an incredible talent. He could move the ball both ways at pace at the age of 17.

Ignore him, he is just typical Indian trolling. They can never find bowlers like him.

[Purefection]

Originally Posted by statsguru you guys are so fond of stats then what happened in this thread? why now look factor beyond stats all of a sudden to defend aamir? no one is gonna reply to this. i knew it already. so who considered mcgrath to be greatest thing to emerge from aus? that is my point as well. mcgrath turned out to be a great later on in his career. 14 test matches is not a benchmark at all to label some1 as a great, the greatest talent to emerge from subcontinent etc. if irfan was to abandon cricket there itself after 14 tests then would people have considered him a great too? jimmy adams ave 66.10 after 24 tests, if he had been caught in match fixing then would you all have considered him a great, or the greatest talent to emerge from carribbean? no! indians and west indians didnt consider them greats or greatest talents to emerge from their countries b´coz they waited till the career expanded to further years. pakistanis have a luxury of calling him the bradman of bowling coz he wont be playing next 4 years becoz of his deeds and if he fades after his comeback you guys will make excuses "o he was on a long break, no practice and thus his career has been ruined by salman butt". a longer and prolonged career only exposes weaknessess and can mount to failures.

You've just contradicted yourself and gone against most of your points. If you're going to troll, at least troll properly dude. What a fail, can't even do that properly

[statsguru]

Originally Posted by Namak_Halaal Personaly this thread is the perfect reason for introducing a new PP award - Fail of the Week - FOTW.

Quite satrangely this failed thread contaings mostly ur post. So if you are posting in a failed thread then you need your brain to be checked.

Originally Posted by Ironcat As an FYI, no one on this forum believes in Aamir's great talent based on his 14 tests. They were fortunate enough to see him bowl to make that judgment.

Dostnt matter what u see on Youtube, TV or whatever. Ultimately stats proves who the match winner is. It proves aamir is an overhyped guy.

Originally Posted by madaboutcricket I love this thread. Some of the Pakistani fans are getting owned nicely by Statsguru. Keep it up SG.

Thanx bro. Finally to see some intelligent people here. Which is a rare case here.

Originally Posted by Purefection You've just contradicted yourself and gone against most of your points. If you're going to troll, at least troll properly dude. What a fail, can't even do that properly

Eh where did I contradict myself? Do you really know what contradiction means??? Have a bath with some cold water. That may help your brain cells.



Intrestingly no one has used Stats to prove me wrong. In aamir´s case people are only saying

Yes we have seen him on Tv, Youtube
Holding said this, Imran said that

But in other threads to degrade player like Rahul Dravid you bring in all factors such as Match winning Inngs, Runs scored in Won matches, Total wins etc... Shame on all hypocrites.

[Namak_Halaal]

Statsguru is running away.

He's not addressing substance with substance.

His contradictions have been exposed and he doesn;t have the courage to address them.

Bookmarking this thread for the future.

[90MPH]

Keep blabbering, anyone who is not a biased Indian will know how much Talented he was including lots of Australian and English supporters.

Yet to see 1 talented bowler from India though, but that is a separate debate.

[insaan]

Originally Posted by statsguru Intrestingly no one has used Stats to prove me wrong. In aamir´s case people are only saying Yes we have seen him on Tv, Youtube Holding said this, Imran said that

This is what I had posted earlier.

In those 14 matches:

IK Pathan averaged 47.22 vs teams excluding Zim and BD. In the matches against BD and Zim he took 27 wickets in 3 matches, at 12.03.
Md. Amir averaged 29.09 vs all, and 26.77 if you exclude NZ.

If you take out minnows, then Amir is almost twice better than Pathan.

With all humility and respect, Statsguru, I hope you wont scold me and call me an idiot,for replying to your post. If you do, then I do deserve it, and will still respect you.