Who was the last "Good-Great" Player that Pakistani Domestic Cricket Produced?

[I Believe in the Teesra]

So me and my friend were discussing the ways that other countries seemed to producing an influx of new talent particularly in the bowling department, and it got me thinking, why aren't we doing the same?

You look at nations like SA and Australia, and they seem to just churn out fast bowlers who make an immediate impact. Then you look at the youngsters we bring up, and its completely different. I have to give the selectors credit - we have tried youngsters and so far, NONE of them have taken the world by storm.

Wahab Riaz - wayward and erratic. Destroyed by the Indians in the Asia Cup and looks like he won't be a permanent selection anytime soon.

Junaid Khan - hasn't really had that dazzling performance and at times has been exposed in the control department. His pace is good but he seems to be injury prone and that may shorten his career unfortunately.

Rahat Ali - jury's not out yet on him and we can't truly assess him after 1 match but his pace seems decent. He may be a bit too raw for the international scene.

The thing is, this isn't just limited to the bowling. I ask PPers, who was the last good-great batsman that our domestic circuit produced? To be honest, I think its probably Azhar Ali but I think his success is more because of his decision to play abroad where I think the competition level is much higher as compared to our domestic scene.

Looking across the world, it seems that the domestic circuits for various nations are somewhat close to international levels and thus they have better chances for producing players that are "ready" to contribute immediately. In Pakistan, the gap seems to be larger than ever. Our selectors, are just picking players who seem to thrive in the domestic scene and then push them into the international arena. Yes, that is their job, but unfortunately, those youngsters don't seem to be making impacts.

Is it because the standard for our domestic cricket is so low? I remember when Umar Akmal was dropped for a short period, he absolutely lit up the bowlers in domestic cricket. Granted, the average international bowler is by far superior to the domestic one, the case still holds when we compare Akmal to the other young batsmen in the world - there still remains a gap.

I understand that "Great" players can't just be produced overnight but at the same time, the prospects that we see selectors picking for the international arena just seem raw and maybe even a tad bit mediocre? Are we hoping they become great or are they all going to be work in progresses?

After seeing Mr. Khan-ji's thread on talent, one thing is evident. As fans, we raise the hype for an upcoming player in the domestic circuit and I think that needs to be curtailed. Yes, achievements can be praised but after seeing players like Riaz and others be touted in the domestic circuit, its now quite clear to see that they will never ever be dominating forces in world cricket.

Fans are excited for prospects like Zia-Ul-Haq and Raza Hassan but will they really take the world by storm? I haven't seen Zia but I have my doubts about Raza. Its becoming more and more clear that dominating scrub batsmen in our domestic circuit will not be the formula for finding international success. So then I ask PPers, are there better ways to assess a youngster's ability than the failed standards of our domestic cricket?

[amlafan79]

honestly these phases come in every country u guys produced two really good bowlers and they are gone now...i dont think any one an replace them in coming 4-5 years...not even gr8 aussie side owuld ve been able to replace like that

bigger problem is the over hyping of players..most people will hate me here after i says this but umar akmal is not even as good as rohit sharma or azhar ali!
but if go by comments he is the gr8st batsman world produced in last 10 years
same with bowlers they hype them and after one bad game he is tundler,useless etc etc
and the other extreme so many edges dropped dont go by figures lol

[I Believe in the Teesra]

Originally Posted by amlafan79 honestly these phases come in every country u guys produced two really good bowlers and they are gone now...i dont think any one an replace them in coming 4-5 years...not even gr8 aussie side owuld ve been able to replace like that bigger problem is the over hyping of players..most people will hate me here after i says this but umar akmal is not even as good as rohit sharma or azhar ali! but if go by comments he is the gr8st batsman world produced in last 10 years same with bowlers they hype them and after one bad game he is tundler,useless etc etc and the other extreme so many edges dropped dont go by figures lol

Those 3 statements are interesting and let me take a second to respond to each one.

Statement 1 - While the premise is true, I ask you to take start from 2000 and on think of the players that have dominated and I mean dominated world cricket.

Amir - Asif - Ajmal.

2 out of the 3 are now gone and understandably so. But the thing is in that 12 year span, we have only produced 3 players. If we do a % of players that were tested, its clear that the rate at which Pakistan is producing viable talent is extremely low when you compare to other bigger countries.

Statement 2 and 3 - Agreed, the over hyping thing is particularly daunting. We expect cricketers to take the world by storm but once again in the last 12 years, not many have done that.

I remember when Asad Shafiq came into the limelight against Australia in the WC, I was stunned at how he handled himself and I still have high expectations for him. The problem is, he isn't consistent enough to meet those expectations and that's similar to Umar Akmal. Will Akmal be a really really good batsmen in the future? Most likely yes. Will he be one of the world's best? That's iffy.

[in_cutter]

Originally Posted by I Believe in the Teesra Those 3 statements are interesting and let me take a second to respond to each one. Statement 1 - While the premise is true, I ask you to take start from 2000 and on think of the players that have dominated and I mean dominated world cricket. Amir - Asif - Ajmal. 2 out of the 3 are now gone and understandably so. But the thing is in that 12 year span, we have only produced 3 players. If we do a % of players that were tested, its clear that the rate at which Pakistan is producing viable talent is extremely low when you compare to other bigger countries. Statement 2 and 3 - Agreed, the over hyping thing is particularly daunting. We expect cricketers to take the world by storm but once again in the last 12 years, not many have done that. I remember when Asad Shafiq came into the limelight against Australia in the WC, I was stunned at how he handled himself and I still have high expectations for him. The problem is, he isn't consistent enough to meet those expectations and that's similar to Umar Akmal. Will Akmal be a really really good batsmen in the future? Most likely yes. Will he be one of the world's best? That's iffy.

Disagree...Amir hardly dominated world cricket- he was fairly new.

[I Believe in the Teesra]

Originally Posted by in_cutter Disagree...Amir hardly dominated world cricket- he was fairly new.

If we look at his sample size, I would disagree.


http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan...er/290948.html

An average of 24 in ODIs..

And that's at the age of 20 and youngest bowler to take 50 wickets in test cricket.

[inzy_paratha]

We are producing the talent, just not managing it well. Asad shafiq is in and out of the ODI side, in tests where we have given him an extended run he has done pretty well.
Junaid Khan was doing well until his injury, Rahat Ali looks like a good bowler, we just need to persist with him, then we have the case of Hammad Azam who is not being given any sort of chance, and is dropped after hardly bowling and batting at number 8 when the match is already over. There is no issue with talent, talented youngsters like Usman Salahuddin, Raza Hasan, Zia Ul Haq etc keep coming through, its just about backing them and managing them well.

[I Believe in the Teesra]

Originally Posted by inzy_paratha We are producing the talent, just not managing it well. Asad shafiq is in and out of the ODI side, in tests where we have given him an extended run he has done pretty well. Junaid Khan was doing well until his injury, Rahat Ali looks like a good bowler, we just need to persist with him, then we have the case of Hammad Azam who is not being given any sort of chance, and is dropped after hardly bowling and batting at number 8 when the match is already over. There is no issue with talent, talented youngsters like Usman Salahuddin, Raza Hasan, Zia Ul Haq etc keep coming through, its just about backing them and managing them well.

What about the degree to which they are talented? In other words, are they talented because they are taking the domestic circuit by storm or are they talented because they have the potential to thrive at the international level? Its becoming more and more clear that we can't use our domestic circuit as a means to judge a player because the gap between somewhat decent players and not so good players has massively increased.

[amlafan79]

Originally Posted by I Believe in the Teesra Those 3 statements are interesting and let me take a second to respond to each one. Statement 1 - While the premise is true, I ask you to take start from 2000 and on think of the players that have dominated and I mean dominated world cricket. Amir - Asif - Ajmal. 2 out of the 3 are now gone and understandably so. But the thing is in that 12 year span, we have only produced 3 players. If we do a % of players that were tested, its clear that the rate at which Pakistan is producing viable talent is extremely low when you compare to other bigger countries. Statement 2 and 3 - Agreed, the over hyping thing is particularly daunting. We expect cricketers to take the world by storm but once again in the last 12 years, not many have done that. I remember when Asad Shafiq came into the limelight against Australia in the WC, I was stunned at how he handled himself and I still have high expectations for him. The problem is, he isn't consistent enough to meet those expectations and that's similar to Umar Akmal. Will Akmal be a really really good batsmen in the future? Most likely yes. Will he be one of the world's best? That's iffy.

yes its less but i think bowling wise tht was enough
batting is problem but when was it ever dominating ?
and today i saw some one criticizing azhar ali at one stage his score was 60 and team on 78...need i add more? lol

[I Believe in the Teesra]

Originally Posted by amlafan79 yes its less but i think bowling wise tht was enough batting is problem but when was it ever dominating ? and today i saw some one criticizing azhar ali at one stage his score was 60 and team on 78...need i add more? lol

See, I think Azhar Ali is the best batting "talent" we have in the country and today, he proved it again because above all else, he knows how to handle himself and does with a genuine intelligence.

I think his success is not because of our domestic circuit but because he made the decision to play country cricket in England. He seems to handle bowlers "technically" better with regards to his back-foot game and his overall strides. That's something that our domestic batsmen don't do.

[amlafan79]

Originally Posted by I Believe in the Teesra See, I think Azhar Ali is the best batting "talent" we have in the country and today, he proved it again because above all else, he knows how to handle himself and does with a genuine intelligence. I think his success is not because of our domestic circuit but because he made the decision to play country cricket in England. He seems to handle bowlers "technically" better with regards to his back-foot game and his overall strides. That's something that our domestic batsmen don't do.

ye i agree..also i like the way he punished every bad ball
but thing is u cant finish on ur own..
and yes he got slower his job as opener is to play till end its the guys on other end who got out and also never accelerated

one thing i never understand ...even with out weak bowling at every darn level we indians are able tp produce batsman always who some how handle themselves pretty well
maybe its bcos of guys like tendulkar there i remember in ipl (yes yes tamasha league but steyn was bowling so ;) )
going upto to rohit sharma when he was comprehensively beaten 5 times in row and asking him to settle down and leave balls things like these which look so simple here while discussing while playing are not so simple...u learn with experience i guess

[I Believe in the Teesra]

Originally Posted by amlafan79 ye i agree..also i like the way he punished every bad ball but thing is u cant finish on ur own.. and yes he got slower his job as opener is to play till end its the guys on other end who got out and also never accelerated one thing i never understand ...even with out weak bowling at every darn level we indians are able tp produce batsman always who some how handle themselves pretty well maybe its bcos of guys like tendulkar there i remember in ipl (yes yes tamasha league but steyn was bowling so ;) ) going upto to rohit sharma when he was comprehensively beaten 5 times in row and asking him to settle down and leave balls things like these which look so simple here while discussing while playing are not so simple...u learn with experience i guess

That's the weird thing. Why is it that Indians produce weak bowlers but exceptional batsmen like Kohli, Dravid, and Tendulkar? Logically, it would make sense that great batsmen are those that smash good bowlers but its the opposite in India and the same holds in Pakistan. We've been known to produce good bowlers and you'd expect our batsmen to be better, but they're not. The leadership point maybe the difference I guess.

[amlafan79]

Originally Posted by I Believe in the Teesra That's the weird thing. Why is it that Indians produce weak bowlers but exceptional batsmen like Kohli, Dravid, and Tendulkar? Logically, it would make sense that great batsmen are those that smash good bowlers but its the opposite in India and the same holds in Pakistan. We've been known to produce good bowlers and you'd expect our batsmen to be better, but they're not. The leadership point maybe the difference I guess.

yes...its funny how on similar conditions both teams have opposite strengths
and zaheer who is our best bowler became only good after his long stint in county

[I Believe in the Teesra]

Originally Posted by amlafan79 yes...its funny how on similar conditions both teams have opposite strengths and zaheer who is our best bowler became only good after his long stint in county

I think that might be the case here as well with Ajmal but he should've definately been called up. Selectors didn't notice him until he was like 33