Why are Pakistanis obsessed with Saudis?

[Sufi]

I seen so many videos of Saudis..1) the Bangladeshi man being spit on and harassed, 2) Their own king performing dua towards the grave of the Prophet, and if anyone else does this, they consider it not islamic, 3) Saudis ordering a girl out of the mall for wearing nail polish etc. 4) Saudis not letting women drive

There are many more videos out there. Now, is this the type of people we should be supporting?

Now I'd like to ask why do Pakistanis obsess over Saudis?

Saudis are hypocrites and have never done anything good for Pakistan apart from donating during the floods.
Pakistan is on the verge of destruction, and fighting a 10 year long war, and when have the Saudis ever helped us?

Remember an Arab is not superior over a non-arab and vice versa.

It seems Arabs are the masters, and Pakistanis are the slaves.

It seems there is always a Pakistani out there ready to bend over or die for a Saudi - just because they are the rulers of Mecca and Medina.

Having a good relationship is fine, but being slaves is a different story.

[akheR]

Inferiority complex, don't need more than two words to describe it.

[SIMBA]

I hate Saudis.

[Rizwan25]

Who told you we are obbssessed with Saudis or Arabs in general?

We respect them because our religion originated there and our prophet was also an Arab.

Arab now days are as ignorant as an ass and I doubt any of us like them.

[Geordie Ahmed]

Which Pakistanis are obsessed with Saudis?

[Looney]

Pakistanis and Indians in general have this mentality of never treating people as equals . When times are good they treat others the same ( acting like their masters ) and when times are bad , they are ready to lick feet of anyone with money .

[Down2Earth]

I couldn't hate them more. It's their extremist literature that has ruined our country. They've even allowed israel to use their airspace for an attack on iran. They couldn't be more pathetic tbh

[Black Zero]

Because Saudis got control of Arab world and provide resources to kill any democratic forces in the region.

Because they are puppets

because they requested Israel to crush the head of snake(iran) :wikileaks

because they are the main source of spreading radicalism in Pakistan

because they got the worst record for giving rights to women

[x-man]

People don't think against Islam. There is nothing called extremism in Islam. Only correct and wrong ways. Problem may be with Saudi rulers. Don't blame all Saudis.
The man who started this topic 'Sufi' was wrong. He couldn't understand even nail polish is unislamic. They can't do ablutions. So can't pray. If u have any ideas about women driving, come for a dialog with me. Lets talk in light of Quran and Sunna.
If Saudi rulers who don't follow Islamic laws strictly, do some good things don't try to say those good things also wrong.

[Lachrymose]

I agree with akheR

[LethalSami]

maybe they think they owe them coz Islam originated in KSA, hence love for anything related to Saudi Arabia??

[LongHorn]

Originally Posted by x-man People don't think against Islam. There is nothing called extremism in Islam. Only correct and wrong ways. Problem may be with Saudi rulers. Don't blame all Saudis. The man who started this topic 'Sufi' was wrong. He couldn't understand even nail polish is unislamic. They can't do ablutions. So can't pray. If u have any ideas about women driving, come for a dialog with me. Lets talk in light of Quran and Sunna. If Saudi rulers who don't follow Islamic laws strictly, do some good things don't try to say those good things also wrong.

Nail polish is usinslamic, but its such a minor minor thing, and should be let completely up to the person wearing it.

Wearing T shirts having pictures of humans also makes one unable to pray, are you going to order them out of public places as well ?

[khalil1986]

Originally Posted by Down2Earth I couldn't hate them more. It's their extremist literature that has ruined our country. They've even allowed israel to use their airspace for an attack on iran. They couldn't be more pathetic tbh

Which extremist literature are you referring to?

[DoosraTeesra]

Is it true that Madrassahs in Pakistan are mostly funded by Saudis to spread their version of Islam?

[Javelin]

Originally Posted by Geordie Ahmed Which Pakistanis are obsessed with Saudis?

Have you ever lived or worked there? (going there for a week or two to perform hajj or umrah does'nt count)

Have you seen how they treat the 'Westerners' versus their treatments of say, Pakistani's or Bangladeshi's ? Whether by the Mutawa (religious police) in shopping centres, by the authorities at airports, hospitals, public buildings or even by other Saudi's in everyday situations such as driving.

If you have, then you would not be asking the question you have asked.

[Badsha]

Not obsessed with Saudis at all.

[2hands]

you dont like saudi becuase they dont help pakistan?
what country helps pakistan?

[PIE_CHUCKER]

Im only obssesed with Saudi Women. They are hot!!

[pakistanalltheway]

I don't hate Saudis but their leaders. In fact I hate most Arab leaders . Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51_iWeTYoCs&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Say what you want about Gadaffi but these are some wise words .

[akheR]

Originally Posted by PIE_CHUCKER Im only obssesed with Saudi Women. They are hot!!

Have you ever seen one ? :l

[James]

Originally Posted by akheR Have you ever seen one ? :l

Good point

[pakistanalltheway]

Originally Posted by akheR Have you ever seen one ? :l

Haha Lolz !

[shortbread]

Arent saudi's required for the 'ghazwa e hind' plan?!!

[Sufi]

Originally Posted by shortbread Arent saudi's required for the 'ghazwa e hind' plan?!!

no they're working on their own 'Ghazwa e Iran' plan with Israel

The fact is we, Pakistanis, have helped the Saudis countless number of times. We are even always ready to send our army & air force for assistance if Mecca or Medina are ever in danger.

But Saudis have never helped Pakistan during crucial times. That tells a lot about this supposed "friendship". They would never even dare send their army or air force to help us against terrorists or an external threat to our country.

Originally Posted by 2hands you dont like saudi becuase they dont help pakistan? what country helps pakistan?

have you even read the first post properly?

Originally Posted by khalil1986 Which extremist literature are you referring to?

Their literature ordering the destruction of the Green Dome in Madina...

[PakPrince]

Originally Posted by pie_chucker im only obssesed with saudi women. They are hot!!

Originally Posted by akher have you ever seen one ? :l

Originally Posted by james good point

[Badsha]

Originally Posted by PIE_CHUCKER Im only obssesed with Saudi Women. They are hot!!

I have lived in the middle east for 7 years.


Still haven't seen the face of a saudi woman. Also, something tells me they aren't that hot

[PIE_CHUCKER]

Originally Posted by akheR Have you ever seen one ? :l

Yes

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...J62b1AWjkrHrCg

[violet_may]

Originally Posted by akheR Have you ever seen one ? :l

[tanzeel]

Originally Posted by DoosraTeesra Is it true that Madrassahs in Pakistan are mostly funded by Saudis to spread their version of Islam?

Yes, it is true.

[Bilal7]

The problem is with the spineless Saudi government that have become 'allies' of the US and Europe.

The general population from my experience is quite respectful of Muslims.

BTW, I highly doubt any Pakistani treats Saudi's as their masters. Don't know how the OP came up with that one.

[vcool80]

arbi are seen as "great people" by muslims from anywhere asia be it malayasia or pakistan or india. the reason can be religious too considering arabia is the centre of islam.

however, this obsession will not be seen among middle easterners but only asians or new converts who wants to be arabians.

[humzy]

^^ very true, go to turkey they dont care

[Black Zero]

Originally Posted by vcool80 arbi are seen as "great people" by muslims from anywhere asia be it malayasia or pakistan or india. the reason can be religious too considering arabia is the centre of islam. however, this obsession will not be seen among middle easterners but only asians or new converts who wants to be arabians.

i do not think so...we normally j/k about arabs...

[Geordie Ahmed]

Originally Posted by Javelin Have you ever lived or worked there? (going there for a week or two to perform hajj or umrah does'nt count) Have you seen how they treat the 'Westerners' versus their treatments of say, Pakistani's or Bangladeshi's ? Whether by the Mutawa (religious police) in shopping centres, by the authorities at airports, hospitals, public buildings or even by other Saudi's in everyday situations such as driving. If you have, then you would not be asking the question you have asked.

No I have never lived or worked there

I have heard of countless stories of the mistreatment of South Asians in Arab countries BUT I don't see how that answers my question

Do you think Pakistani's working in poor conditions and 'accepting' such treatment makes them obsessed? I certainly don't, ultimately they work to provide for their families back home, a necessary evil

[Sufi]

Originally Posted by Black Zero i do not think so...we normally j/k about arabs...

haha and you think arabs have never joked or look down on you before?

The terrorist jokes are hardly ever against arabs, it's targeted towards Iraqis/Iranis/Afghans/Pakistanis if you noticed

Arabs, with their petrol dollars, are working hard to stay away from being labelled as a terrorist threat, and as well as, promoting their terrorist ideologies in other parts of the world

[Black Zero]

Originally Posted by Sufi haha and you think arabs have never joked or look down on you before? The terrorist jokes are hardly ever against arabs, it's targeted towards Iraqis/Iranis/Afghans/Pakistanis if you noticed Arabs, with their petrol dollars, are working hard to stay away from being labelled as a terrorist threat, and as well as, promoting their terrorist ideologies in other parts of the world

Not "terrorist" kind of jokes...(though all terrorists in sep 11 were Saudis)

Arabs have been joked around for so many reasons, like being:

- "Intellectually Superior"
- "Most brave"
- " highly civilized"

etc etc.

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Originally Posted by Black Zero Not "terrorist" kind of jokes...(though all terrorists in sep 11 were Saudis) Arabs have been joked around for so many reasons, like being: - "Intellectually Superior" - "Most brave" - " highly civilized" etc etc.

Since we have established that Saudis are funding terrorism and exporting ideological evil, can you guide us as to why your troops are bombing Afghanistan rather than Saudi Arabia with it's massive oil reserves?

[Black Zero]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat Since we have established that Saudis are funding terrorism and exporting ideological evil, can you guide us as to why your troops are bombing Afghanistan rather than Saudi Arabia with it's massive oil reserves?

You mean Canadian Troops?

I agree that KSA should be challenged directly

[chacha kashmiri]

Those eviil saudis helping pakistan and keeping close friendship with pakistan and not asking for much in return.

And as stupid as this argument it , it seems appropriate on this thread. Bin laden was chucked out of saudi and he went to pakistan to die, so make out of that what you will

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Originally Posted by Black Zero You mean Canadian Troops? I agree that KSA should be challenged directly

So why aren't they?

[pakistanalltheway]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat Since we have established that Saudis are funding terrorism and exporting ideological evil, can you guide us as to why your troops are bombing Afghanistan rather than Saudi Arabia with it's massive oil reserves?

Wouldn't an attack on KSA be considered an attack on Islam ?

[Sufi]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat So why aren't they?

Their petrol dollars are keeping them safe. And also because attacking KSA would mean all muslim countries would bring Pakistan down, and it's contradictory to what we believe in. No Western country has dared attacked KSA, and you want Pakistan to do so?

[Black Zero]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat So why aren't they?

KSA is ensuring that their land will not be used against USA.

If it's used, you will see USA would react and take control of the situation...

To address the core issue, Wahabism, though apparently a religious movement, but got a very political agenda and thats odd with modren civilization.. :taliban :ksa

and the clash is imminent...it's just matter of time.

[chacha kashmiri]

taliban

The taliban are from the famous south asian deoband madrasahs

[Black Zero]

Originally Posted by chacha kashmiri The taliban are from the famous south asian deoband madrasahs

Taliban are more wahabi then us :KSA foreign minister after a stressful meeting with "Ameer-ul-momeenein" Mullah umer in afghanistan so many years back.

[chacha kashmiri]

Originally Posted by Black Zero Taliban are more wahabi then us :KSA foreign minister after a stressful meeting with "Ameer-ul-momeenein" Mullah umer in afghanistan so many years back.

That doesn't make sense.

It's one of the reason foreign insurgents in afghanistan did not get on with the taliban, due to aqeedah differences.

[Sufi]

Originally Posted by chacha kashmiri The taliban are from the famous south asian deoband madrasahs

what a coincidence

No wonder Deobands are against sufis and bralvis

[humzy]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat Since we have established that Saudis are funding terrorism and exporting ideological evil, can you guide us as to why your troops are bombing Afghanistan rather than Saudi Arabia with it's massive oil reserves?

Is bombing the answer to everything for people these days? lol

[Sufi]

Originally Posted by humzy Is bombing the answer to everything for people these days? lol

it certainly is for the Americans, they love their drones!

[Black Zero]

Originally Posted by chacha kashmiri That doesn't make sense. It's one of the reason foreign insurgents in afghanistan did not get on with the taliban, due to aqeedah differences.

Ever thought that it could be due to language, social and cultural barriers?

[deviously~fading~away]

Originally Posted by Sufi Now I'd like to ask why do Pakistanis obsess over Saudis? Saudis are hypocrites and have never done anything good for Pakistan apart from donating during the floods. Pakistan is on the verge of destruction, and fighting a 10 year long war, and when have the Saudis ever helped us?

Were you born 10 years ago? Your thread just highlights how little you know about Pakistan-Saudi relations. No country has helped us more than Saudi Arabia.

[deviously~fading~away]

Originally Posted by Sufi The fact is we, Pakistanis, have helped the Saudis countless number of times. We are even always ready to send our army & air force for assistance if Mecca or Medina are ever in danger. But Saudis have never helped Pakistan during crucial times. That tells a lot about this supposed "friendship". They would never even dare send their army or air force to help us against terrorists or an external threat to our country.

Unbeliveable! How naive are you? They helped you get the one thing that your entire country is proud of today: Nuclear weapons! They helped you when you were sanctioned by the US in 1998, had it not been for the Saudis your country would have collapsed like a bad joke. The fact that your incompetent leaders even after that managed to screw up the country says a lot about your leaders.

Stop blaming others. Saudis have done more for you than your country even deserves! Same goes with the US. Fix yourself & stop blaming anyone & everyone else!

[Black Zero]

Originally Posted by deviously~fading~away Unbeliveable! How naive are you? They helped you get the one thing that your entire country is proud of today: Nuclear weapons! They helped you when you were sanctioned by the US in 1998, had it not been for the Saudis your country would have collapsed like a bad joke. The fact that your incompetent leaders even after that managed to screw up the country says a lot about your leaders. Stop blaming others. Saudis have done more for you than your country even deserves! Same goes with the US. Fix yourself & stop blaming anyone & everyone else!

What KSA done for common Pakistanis living in Pakistan?
Give us few examples...

Regarding helping out Zia, Nawaz means ziltch for average pakistani.

[observer1]

Originally Posted by DoosraTeesra Is it true that Madrassahs in Pakistan are mostly funded by Saudis to spread their version of Islam?

A Madrassah is just a school. It is mainly funded by local donations if anything.

Saudi Arabia mainly funds large scale projects.

Blaming Saudi Arabia is just a cop out. Dont get me wrong, i am not a fan of the government.

But alot of whats going on today in North West Pakistan is from people acting out of desperation. There is a war going on, what do you expect?

Is it Saudi's fault that:

- The Pakistani government is corrupt?
- Governors take kickbacks and make countless sums of money for luxuries, whilst the population cant even gather food for a meal?
- MQM is causing havoc, destruction and chaos in Karachi?
- Infiltration and exploitation by Mercenaries and CIA/RAW officials in tribal areas?
- Corruption and crime is increasing in the major cities ?

What KSA done for common Pakistanis living in Pakistan? Give us few examples...

Are you joking me? What has Pakistan's own useless government done for it's own people? You want Saudi to do the job your own government cant be bothered doing?
BZ, please, take a seat.

Face it, Pakistan is a pathetic country thanks to a corrupt, useless and incompetent government. It's practically been the same since Day 1. Which is why countries like USA and organizations like NATO can bomb it all they want.

You have liberals mentally incapable of understanding the problem, and justifying Pakistanis getting bombed daily.

[Black Zero]

Originally Posted by observer1 Are you joking me? What has Pakistan's own useless government done for it's own people? You want Saudi to do the job your own government cant be bothered doing? BZ, please, take a seat.

my statement/question is part of a larger argument...going on with sufi and deviously~fading~away


got it?

[Pahari]

[DHONI183]

Obvious connection with religion here. People go to the extent of celebrating Eids with Saudi Arabia.

It is in our mentality to think that since the Qur´an was revealed in that part of the world or because Prophet Muhammad lived there, they hold superiority over others and they are sacred.

[justarslan]

Never liked Saudis.

[deviously~fading~away]

Originally Posted by Black Zero What KSA done for common Pakistanis living in Pakistan? Give us few examples... Regarding helping out Zia, Nawaz means ziltch for average pakistani.

You mean the average Pakistani that keeps voting for Nawaz Sharif? Or the average Pakistani that stands for hours to listen to Nawaz Sharif speak during a rally?

For the average Pakistani, Saudis give them jobs in Saudi Arabia.

[deviously~fading~away]

Originally Posted by observer1 A Madrassah is just a school. It is mainly funded by local donations if anything. Saudi Arabia mainly funds large scale projects. Blaming Saudi Arabia is just a cop out. Dont get me wrong, i am not a fan of the government. But alot of whats going on today in North West Pakistan is from people acting out of desperation. There is a war going on, what do you expect? Is it Saudi's fault that: - The Pakistani government is corrupt? - Governors take kickbacks and make countless sums of money for luxuries, whilst the population cant even gather food for a meal? - MQM is causing havoc, destruction and chaos in Karachi? - Infiltration and exploitation by Mercenaries and CIA/RAW officials in tribal areas? - Corruption and crime is increasing in the major cities ? Are you joking me? What has Pakistan's own useless government done for it's own people? You want Saudi to do the job your own government cant be bothered doing? BZ, please, take a seat. Face it, Pakistan is a pathetic country thanks to a corrupt, useless and incompetent government. It's practically been the same since Day 1. Which is why countries like USA and organizations like NATO can bomb it all they want. You have liberals mentally incapable of understanding the problem, and justifying Pakistanis getting bombed daily.

Brilliant Post!

[Black Zero]

Originally Posted by deviously~fading~away You mean the average Pakistani that keeps voting for Nawaz Sharif? Or the average Pakistani that stands for hours to listen to Nawaz Sharif speak during a rally? For the average Pakistani, Saudis give them jobs in Saudi Arabia.

and paying them extra as compared to other nationalities?

[humzy]

i'm not surprised that there are many pakistanis who are willing to be treated badly in another country for some money, the country is shockingly poor.. I still remember the airports, where hundreds f beggers are walking around trying to scavenge anything they can.. Its a real sad state of affairs.

[Sjaloha]

The reason why most Pakistanis are obssessed with Saudis is for the fact that the holy cities of Mecca and Medina are in that country. On top of that Saudi Arabia give money to Pakistani government and politicans. And in return these politicans go to the masses and get people support to protect the interest of the leaders of Saudi Arabia.

What makes the royal family of Saudi Arabia successful in ruling the country and Arab world is their effective strategy to create allies in other muslim states who rally support for the royal family, i guess the exception in this regard are the countries with Shia majority countries.

[Myrmidon]

i am not obsessed with them

as i see it i am superior to them


they have enormous problems with actual Pakistanis but not just them most arabs hate Pakistani people aswell, yet most pakistani's would go out of their way to try and impress them

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Originally Posted by Black Zero and paying them extra as compared to other nationalities?

Seeing as these workers from the sub-continent are treated badly and paid peanuts I suggest they leave Saudi Arabia and head for Canada instead where no doubt they will receive a warm welcome. I look forward to your future posts telling us how they are getting along.

[wasim-fan]

Originally Posted by humzy ^^ very true, go to turkey they dont care

Quite right. In fact, I have heard in several quarters including some notable voices from Pakistan not to mention on this board, that Turkey is modern ideal Islamic state to aspire to. My visit there and interactions with people shocked me beyond limits. It is as liberal, I would say excessively so, as any place that I have visited.

[pakistanalltheway]

Originally Posted by Myrmidon i am not obsessed with them as i see it i am superior to them they have enormous problems with actual Pakistanis but not just them most arabs hate Pakistani people aswell, yet most pakistani's would go out of their way to try and impress them

Ignorance at its finest

[mithun_minhas]

Its got to do with

1) Wealth of Arabs
2) Islam originated there. Mohammed was an Arab.
3) Muslims tend to think of their Holy places and Arabia has them.
4) Quran was written in Arabic and given to an Arab.
5) Last but not the least, there must be surely be some Fair Skinned syndrome somewhere lurking in there.

I know a few Muslims from Hyderabad India who used to boast about their Arab lineage. Apparently one of their ancestors was an Arab. So having a drop of Arab blood in them made them feel superior to the rest.

You will see no white Euro is awe struck with any Middle Eastern Christian. Its the other way around.

Money and skin color play a huge role in the way subcontinental people treat a person. If religion is associated with it, then the boot licking knows no limit.

[Myrmidon]

Originally Posted by pakistanalltheway Ignorance at its finest

oh im sorry for stating what a saudi probably would say about me aswell

and i stand by that

sue me

[humzy]

Originally Posted by wasim-fan Quite right. In fact, I have heard in several quarters including some notable voices from Pakistan not to mention on this board, that Turkey is modern ideal Islamic state to aspire to. My visit there and interactions with people shocked me beyond limits. It is as liberal, I would say excessively so, as any place that I have visited.

Well yeah alot of muslims hate Ataturk, but Turkey is what it is for better or worse because of him. His ideas on secularism helped Turkey out of chaos.

I think another reason why Turks dont have this subserviant attitude to Arabs its because they ruled the caliphate for hundreds of years. When you rule over someone their is no master slave concept anymore.

[Jadz]

Pakistanis appear to be more enthralled - or obsessed - with the Indian entertainment industries than with Arabs. Knowledge of the former is greater than their knowledge of Islam.

Perhaps Pakistanis secretly aspire to be famous (or notorious) actors, and relegate faith to the regions of ritual alone.

[Evolu]

Well I have lived here all my life....Im born here......and some of you people's allegations are not true! Saudi Arabia is a great country, but before jumping to any conclusions....dont forget to see whats behind it........also....calling out "Wahhabi" is just making fun of the name of Allah.. (Al Wahab).......the correct word to use is "Salafi" and its better that these people follow the first 3 (non-innovative) generations of Islam.....its good that these people take care of not committing shirk.....the biggest and unforgivable sin in Islam...while most of us in pakistan make absolutely no effort of preventing shirk..........moreover.....its a very strategic government here and they make good decisions and help their own public and try to take steps for the betterment of public, even if its Saudi public in general.....and most of you taunting them about Oil....well...guess what...THEY HAVE IT and there is nothing you can do about it....its reality and it will finish in few years that is also reality...so accept it..........they have money and they spend it on their people...very unlike our so-called leaders in pakistan.....tht is all i am gonna say

[deviously~fading~away]

Prince Turki bin Sultan summoned up the relation perferctly when he said Saudi-Pak relation is “probably one of the closest relationships in the world between any two countries”

[Cricket_MN]

Originally Posted by Sufi I seen so many videos of Saudis..1) the Bangladeshi man being spit on and harassed, 2) Their own king performing dua towards the grave of the Prophet, and if anyone else does this, they consider it not islamic, 3) Saudis ordering a girl out of the mall for wearing nail polish etc. 4) Saudis not letting women drive There are many more videos out there. Now, is this the type of people we should be supporting? Now I'd like to ask why do Pakistanis obsess over Saudis? Saudis are hypocrites and have never done anything good for Pakistan apart from donating during the floods. Pakistan is on the verge of destruction, and fighting a 10 year long war, and when have the Saudis ever helped us? Remember an Arab is not superior over a non-arab and vice versa. It seems Arabs are the masters, and Pakistanis are the slaves. It seems there is always a Pakistani out there ready to bend over or die for a Saudi - just because they are the rulers of Mecca and Medina. Having a good relationship is fine, but being slaves is a different story.

From your post it looks like that you are the one who is obsessed with Saudi Arabia.

[DHONI183]

Originally Posted by DHONI183 Obvious connection with religion here. People go to the extent of celebrating Eids with Saudi Arabia. It is in our mentality to think that since the Qur´an was revealed in that part of the world or because Prophet Muhammad lived there, they hold superiority over others and they are sacred.

Just to expand on my views further.

Being 'obsessed' (if I can use the term in a positive sense) with Arabic or particularly the language used in the Qur´an is very good. The affection towards the language in relevance to Islam is positive considering the reason behind it.

However, being obsessed with Arab people has no encouraging or positive reason if you wish to attach religion to it. Remember one thing, if they were the first ones who accepted Prophet Muhammad lived, they were also the first to reject him.

Note: In my above example I am not holding the Arabs to be responsible for anything, rather, I am just stating that Islam nowhere states that one should believe that they are superior to any other nation.

May God bless all the nations. Amen!

[PakPrince]

Originally Posted by humzy Well yeah alot of muslims hate Ataturk, but Turkey is what it is for better or worse because of him. His ideas on secularism helped Turkey out of chaos. I think another reason why Turks dont have this subserviant attitude to Arabs its because they ruled the caliphate for hundreds of years. When you rule over someone their is no master slave concept anymore.

true!
Turks are my favourite people