A bloke in ASDA gave me a Qur'an!

[Robert]

Bloke: "Hello Sir, would you like a sweet?"

Robert: "Yes please! I like Quality Street."

Bloke: "Would you also like a copy of this book? It's like the Bible only for Muslims. It's called..."

Robert: "....the Qur'an, yes."

Bloke (shocked): "Oh! How did you know?"

Robert: "Well, I don't claim to know much but not all of us are ignorant chavs!"

(I should state that this ASDA branch is located in a part of Hounslow which is full of welfare-dependent idiots, and generally falling off the map. The poor chap had been sworn at by several morons before he approached me.)

Bloke: "Oh, that's good to hear."

Robert: "How is the fasting going? Bet you're looking forward to Eid."

Bloke (now flabbergasted): "How do you know that?"

Robert: "I'm on the Diversity Committee at work."

He also gave me a little biog of your Prophet. What a nice chap!

[KingKhanWC]

Nice story. You must have made his day, gave him some hope.

If anyone wants a free Quran it's available to order online.

http://www.freequraan.org.uk/Default.aspx

[Zaz]

Lol Great stuff, it mustve been an eye opener for him to come across a caucasian who has some knowledge about islam

[DeadlyVenom]

Nice one Robert, I bet you put a smile on his face.

These people are incredibly brave, not just the muslims but the whole lot of them who take to the streets and preach. I would find it incredibly difficult to stop someone in the street and start chatting about religion.

[chacha kashmiri]

[Black Zero]

what is ASDA?

[DeadlyVenom]

Originally Posted by Black Zero what is ASDA?

UK version of walmart.

[Black Zero]

Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom UK version of walmart.

Thanks

[Namak_Halaal]

Take it as a sign in a blessed month.

[Zaz]

Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom Nice one Robert, I bet you put a smile on his face. These people are incredibly brave, not just the muslims but the whole lot of them who take to the streets and preach. I would find it incredibly difficult to stop someone in the street and start chatting about religion.

I think there is a massive difference between preaching and doing what these people do

preaching is what most people dont like, me included, I dont mind apiece of information being given to me (a leaflet) or an invite in
which i can look at / read and make up my own mind but what i dont like is being stopped in the street and told what to think or what to do

[ElRaja]

Originally Posted by Zaz I think there is a massive difference between preaching and doing what these people do preaching is what most people dont like, me included, I dont mind apiece of information being given to me (a leaflet) or an invite in which i can look at / read and make up my own mind but what i dont like is being stopped in the street and told what to think or what to do

this, i went to stratford today and it was crazy, there was at least three or four different denominations preaching outside stratford station and a few behind the town centre, with some shouting at the considerate amount of passers by that they were all going to hell unless they accept what those people were saying, i mean come on, have some class.

[mani1]

Originally Posted by ElRaja this, i went to stratford today and it was crazy, there was at least three or four different denominations preaching outside stratford station and a few behind the town centre, with some shouting at the considerate amount of passers by that they were all going to hell unless they accept what those people were saying, i mean come on, have some class.

There used to be some Black Christians doing this in Bradford a while back.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by ElRaja this, i went to stratford today and it was crazy, there was at least three or four different denominations preaching outside stratford station and a few behind the town centre, with some shouting at the considerate amount of passers by that they were all going to hell unless they accept what those people were saying, i mean come on, have some class.

Years back, I was waiting in a line to get into the Brixton Fridge nightclub, and across the road was a Christian prosyletiser with a loudhailer telling us just that.

[nish_mate]

Robert what you doing in Hounslow???? It is the town centre ASDA rite?

[Looney]

I have received a copy of bible and brochures about Christianity . I don`t know what to do with the bible , to be honest . I don`t want to throw it away , maybe donate it to a library ? :S

People shouldn`t be giving away copies of Qurans and Bibles like that .

[KingKhanWC]

Originally Posted by Looney I have received a copy of bible and brochures about Christianity . I don`t know what to do with the bible , to be honest . I don`t want to throw it away , maybe donate it to a library ? :S People shouldn`t be giving away copies of Qurans and Bibles like that .

Why? Please do share this great thought of yours.

[ElRaja]

Originally Posted by Looney I have received a copy of bible and brochures about Christianity . I don`t know what to do with the bible , to be honest . I don`t want to throw it away , maybe donate it to a library ? :S People shouldn`t be giving away copies of Qurans and Bibles like that .

it was a long time ago, but i have seen instances of boys throwing bibles being handed out by preachers in public bins or on the road, now i dont really care what people do in the privacy of their own homes but i can see it must be offensive to christians if they find bibles strewn across the road like litter.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by nish_mate Robert what you doing in Hounslow???? It is the town centre ASDA rite?

No, another one in the Borough. I live there (in LBH, not ASDA).

[Looney]

KKWC - They may end up in the garbage or recycle or on the floor with other books . The fact that we show so much respect to the Quran ie by not putting it on the floor or placing them on the highest shelves , wrap it with juzdan because it is sacred to us , not to non Muslims .

If one has to preach , start with brochures or talking to them about it .

[Looney]

Originally Posted by ElRaja it was a long time ago, but i have seen instances of boys throwing bibles being handed out by preachers in public bins or on the road, now i dont really care what people do in the privacy of their own homes but i can see it must be offensive to christians if they find bibles strewn across the road like litter.

Yeah , I would be hurt too if I saw people throwing around copies of Quran like that . It is the fault of the person handing them out so casually , they should know better .

[ElRaja]

Originally Posted by Robert No, another one in the Borough. I live there (in LBH, not ASDA).

lolwut?? the way you transcribed the conversation in the third person i though kensington chelsea for sure, maybe islington, lols.

[KingKhanWC]

Originally Posted by Looney KKWC - They may end up in the garbage or recycle or on the floor with other books . The fact that we show so much respect to the Quran ie by not putting it on the floor or placing them on the highest shelves , wrap it with juzdan because it is sacred to us , not to non Muslims . If one has to preach , start with brochures or talking to them about it .

This is cultural Muslim mentality, wrapping up the Quran in some cloth, putting it away on highest shelf in the house. This is not respecting the Quran but actually disrespecting the Quran. It was sent down to all mankind so should be given (the book format) to anyone who is willing to take it. The Prophet(pbuh) used to write verses of the Quran and send them to far away lands. Some of those rulers burnt it, others tore it to pieces and others just threw it away in the garbage. The Prophet(pbuh) knew this would happen but it doesn't matter, it doesn't lower the value of God's word and neither does it weaken Islam. Giving leaflets is fine but if someone is willing to accept the Quran then they should be given one. It's a human right to read what the Creator has to say to us.

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I wonder how many people are put off as attracted to religion by this sort of preaching? It strikes me as similar to getting unsolicited telesales calls. Interestingly this fellow got a fair amount of abuse before he approached Robert.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by ElRaja lolwut?? the way you transcribed the conversation in the third person i though kensington chelsea for sure, maybe islington, lols.

Nah mate, working class boy me.

First in the family to go to uni, and first to enter management so I guess I'm lower middle class these days.

[Looney]

Originally Posted by KingKhanWC This is cultural Muslim mentality, wrapping up the Quran in some cloth, putting it away on highest shelf in the house. This is not respecting the Quran but actually disrespecting the Quran. It was sent down to all mankind so should be given (the book format) to anyone who is willing to take it. The Prophet(pbuh) used to write verses of the Quran and send them to far away lands. Some of those rulers burnt it, others tore it to pieces and others just threw it away in the garbage. The Prophet(pbuh) knew this would happen but it doesn't matter, it doesn't lower the value of God's word and neither does it weaken Islam. Giving leaflets is fine but if someone is willing to accept the Quran then they should be given one. It's a human right to read what the Creator has to say to us.

I guess you maybe right but it`s just what I have grown up with . The maulvi sahab would hit us even if we were using the index finger of our left hand to learn to read it .

[Bewal Express]

Down turn your back on the Koran we were told as kids by the imam. This was taken literallly and we would avoid turning our back. My wife once observed a teenage girl crawl across on all fours to avoid turning her back.

[Looney]

Originally Posted by kabir000 Down turn your back on the Koran we were told as kids by the imam. This was taken literallly and we would avoid turning our back. My wife once observed a teenage girl crawl across on all fours to avoid turning her back.

I have heard quite a lot of things like that . Make sure your feet are facing away from the Quran . Or don`t spread your hands out , to avoid showing lanat to God . Make sure your feet face away from the Kabah when you sleep or you dont turn your back towards the Kabah when you sleep .

I am not making it up , just some of the craziest things I have heard .

[PakPrince]

haha Iveh ad some of these Looney type experiences.

if there ws a Quran in the room I would take it out of the room so that when Im sleeping imy feet dont accidently face towards it

[James]

Nice OP. I didn't know that you could request/receive the Koran for free, I bought a reputed translation a couple of years back and quite enjoyed the read, so much do I did it again. A third read would equal the amount of times that I have read the Bible.

[Dolphins]

Hope Muslim preachers don't start knocking on doors on Weekend mornings and offering enlightenment.

[pakistanalltheway]

Nice . I got given a a Bible once and I didn't know what to do with it so it's been on my shelf for years .

[James]

Originally Posted by pakistanalltheway Nice . I got given a a Bible once and I didn't know what to do with it so it's been on my shelf for years .

Why not pick it off the shelf and open it? There are some wonderful interesting passages particularly in the Psalms and the New Testament.

[pakistanalltheway]

Originally Posted by James Why not pick it off the shelf and open it? There are some wonderful interesting passages particularly in the Psalms and the New Testament.

Went to a church of England school and they used to drag us to church and make us read the bible and sing annoying hymns . Really put me off .

[KingKhanWC]

Originally Posted by pakistanalltheway Nice . I got given a a Bible once and I didn't know what to do with it so it's been on my shelf for years .

Read it. There are some interesting passages in there such as Jesus(pbuh) fell to the ground and prayed. He prayed like Muslims pray today, he fasted like Muslims are doing now and he believed in one God as we do. It is corrupted but seems God has preserved certain parts too.

[James]

Originally Posted by pakistanalltheway Went to a church of England school and they used to drag us to church and make us read the bible and sing annoying hymns . Really put me off .

I understand, I lost interest in Christianity for a long time too. But it has good things to offer

[oyei]

Originally Posted by Looney I have heard quite a lot of things like that . Make sure your feet are facing away from the Quran . Or don`t spread your hands out , to avoid showing lanat to God . Make sure your feet face away from the Kabah when you sleep or you dont turn your back towards the Kabah when you sleep . I am not making it up , just some of the craziest things I have heard .

sad but it is true, still people follow these rituals in Pakistan, rather thn learning the true meaning that is written in this book, we have created superficial ritual, which has no basis in Islam, It still puzzle me that some Pastor had decided to burnt a Quran, and People thousands of mile away destroy their own hometown in protest, I just can not understand this logic, ther are thousands of people who has memorized this book word by word, and yet some still believe that by burning a copy of Quran would eliminate the entirety of Islam from this world. Do not get me wrong, i understand the motive behind the burning of Quran, but are we that ignorant to the fact that by destroying our hometown in protest would do any good to the rest of the muslim world.

[Black Zero]

Originally Posted by KingKhanWC This is cultural Muslim mentality, wrapping up the Quran in some cloth, putting it away on highest shelf in the house. This is not respecting the Quran but actually disrespecting the Quran. It was sent down to all mankind so should be given (the book format) to anyone who is willing to take it. The Prophet(pbuh) used to write verses of the Quran and send them to far away lands. Some of those rulers burnt it, others tore it to pieces and others just threw it away in the garbage. The Prophet(pbuh) knew this would happen but it doesn't matter, it doesn't lower the value of God's word and neither does it weaken Islam. Giving leaflets is fine but if someone is willing to accept the Quran then they should be given one. It's a human right to read what the Creator has to say to us.

He (pbuh) never wrote ...

The rulers (or persia) who tore the letter (and not the book) was killed by his son soon after.

[Black Zero]

Last week on Metro I was given jehovah witness literature..

As usual it was nice.

[Space Cat]

I remember in school they used to come and give out those little bibles. They usually ended up being thrown around the class room.

[Space Cat]

Originally Posted by Black Zero Last week on Metro I was given jehovah witness literature.. As usual it was nice.

I had a nice conversation with some Jehovah witnesses the other day. They weren't forceful or overly preachy.

My dad used to chase them off the property lol.

[KingKhanWC]

Originally Posted by Black Zero He (pbuh) never wrote ... The rulers (or persia) who tore the letter (and not the book) was killed by his son soon after.

They were of course written on his behalf, every Muslim knows the Prophet(pbuh) was not literate. It's a figure of speech, just as when a President is known to write a letter to another head of state, most of the time it's written for them.

Verses were written down, it's irrelevant whether they were part of a letter or a whole book. There were many rulers. The point is you don't stop passing on written texts of the Quran for fear them being abused.

[DoosraTeesra]

Originally Posted by James Nice OP. I didn't know that you could request/receive the Koran for free, I bought a reputed translation a couple of years back and quite enjoyed the read, so much do I did it again. A third read would equal the amount of times that I have read the Bible.

Congrats, You have read the Quran more times than perhaps 40% (just a guess) muslims themselves.

[Down2Earth]

the bloke obviously hasn't heard of religious education which is compulsory in every school

[sully3]

Robert was this in Feltham high street Asda by any chance ?

[Robert]

Originally Posted by pakistanalltheway Nice . I got given a a Bible once and I didn't know what to do with it so it's been on my shelf for years .

There are some good stories in it.

Lot's daughters have no men available after the cities of the plain get nuked from orbit, so they get Lot drunk and get impregnated by him. Not many Christians know that bit!

[Ambi]

Originally Posted by Robert There are some good stories in it. Lot's daughters have no men available after the cities of the plain get nuked from orbit, so they get Lot drunk and get impregnated by him. Not many Christians know that bit!

Hi Robert,if adam and howa were the first people on earth, then who came next? how did the next generation come along? did the brothers and sisters marry each other?

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Originally Posted by Ambi Hi Robert,if adam and howa were the first people on earth, then who came next? how did the next generation come along? did the brothers and sisters marry each other?

How would they get married if there was no religious priests to sign the marriage certificate?

[ElRaja]

Originally Posted by Ambi Hi Robert,if adam and howa were the first people on earth, then who came next? how did the next generation come along? did the brothers and sisters marry each other?

if im not wrong, the bibilical story goes that they had three sons and two daughters, one son killed another (cain killed abel) and the two daughters married their two remaining brothers.

not sure though

[KingKhanWC]

Originally Posted by Robert There are some good stories in it. Lot's daughters have no men available after the cities of the plain get nuked from orbit, so they get Lot drunk and get impregnated by him. Not many Christians know that bit!

Not sure I would agree it's a 'good story', it's more akin to pornography and insulting lies against a Prophet of God. Some bits of the Bible are very lewd.

How would they get married if there was no religious priests to sign the marriage certificate?

lol, God married them in heaven. Btw Captain what religion do you follow, if any? Surely no Muslim would ever ask such a daft question.

[Ambi]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat How would they get married if there was no religious priests to sign the marriage certificate?

i think bible says Marriages happen in heaven.So god is the priest

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Originally Posted by KingKhanWC Not sure I would agree it's a 'good story', it's more akin to pornography and insulting lies against a Prophet of God. Some bits of the Bible are very lewd. lol, God married them in heaven. Btw Captain what religion do you follow, if any? Surely no Muslim would ever ask such a daft question.

Since there can be only one true religion I follow that one.

[shan]

Originally Posted by Ambi Hi Robert,if adam and howa were the first people on earth, then who came next? how did the next generation come along? did the brothers and sisters marry each other?

This is what Christians and Muslims believe anyway. There is no other logical answer if you take Adam and Eve story.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Ambi Hi Robert,if adam and howa were the first people on earth, then who came next? how did the next generation come along? did the brothers and sisters marry each other?

Well, Genesis says they had three sons - Cain, Abel and Seth. No daughters. Hmmmm.....

Some more progessive-thinking Christians would say that Adam and Eve were the first humans who evolved sufficiently from our hominid ancestors to become self-aware (hence the Tree of Knowledge story).

IMO it's an origin story written for Bronze Age folk, and should not be taken literally by modern people.

[Black Zero]

Originally Posted by Ambi Hi Robert,if adam and howa were the first people on earth, then who came next? how did the next generation come along? did the brothers and sisters marry each other?

Yes they were the first ones, but it doesn't mean that God could not make other adams and eves.

When I asked this question to someone, he said that God created few females (the way he created eve) and those females married Adam/Eve's sons.

This could be a nice spin, but it surely addresses the issue.

[Ambi]

ElRaja,shan,Robert,Black Zero,thanks for your replies

[Zaini]

Originally Posted by Looney I have heard quite a lot of things like that . Make sure your feet are facing away from the Quran . Or don`t spread your hands out , to avoid showing lanat to God . Make sure your feet face away from the Kabah when you sleep or you dont turn your back towards the Kabah when you sleep . I am not making it up , just some of the craziest things I have heard .

LOL i can relate with you pal.

[Looney]

According to Islamic history , Adam and Eve had several sets of twins in which one was a male and the other one was a female . God made a rule that they can marry the opposite gender of another set of twin but not their own twin . I read that in Imam ibn Kathir`s Stories of the Prophets . Hope I remember it right but someone else can correct me .

[VTEC]

Ye Old Evolution vs Creation

[ElRaja]

Originally Posted by Looney According to Islamic history , Adam and Eve had several sets of twins in which one was a male and the other one was a female . God made a rule that they can marry the opposite gender of another set of twin but not their own twin . I read that in Imam ibn Kathir`s Stories of the Prophets . Hope I remember it right but someone else can correct me .

its still incest though.... what stories are these btw, surely there would be some other source to verify considerin (i just googled this) ibn kathir was born 700 years after the founding of islam....

[amateurdentist]

Originally Posted by Robert Bloke: "Hello Sir, would you like a sweet?" Robert: "Yes please! I like Quality Street." Bloke: "Would you also like a copy of this book? It's like the Bible only for Muslims. It's called..." Robert: "....the Qur'an, yes." Bloke (shocked): "Oh! How did you know?" Robert: "Well, I don't claim to know much but not all of us are ignorant chavs!" (I should state that this ASDA branch is located in a part of Hounslow which is full of welfare-dependent idiots, and generally falling off the map. The poor chap had been sworn at by several morons before he approached me.) Bloke: "Oh, that's good to hear." Robert: "How is the fasting going? Bet you're looking forward to Eid." Bloke (now flabbergasted): "How do you know that?" Robert: "I'm on the Diversity Committee at work." He also gave me a little biog of your Prophet. What a nice chap!

you made his day robert most probably good on you!

Did you read any of the material?

[James]

Incest is born out of the innate human sexual drive, while incest taboo is the last remaining taboo in society and also the strongest.

Incest has been suppressed across centuries of human culture by certain cultural and behavioural norms, which are argued to have begun when men after making friends first agreed to swap sisters, as they (like all humans) had a conscious need for sexual gratification but also an unconscious and fundamental aversion to incest. They acted upon the latter to move away from endogamy and encourage the greater diversity and decency in exogamy, whilst also forging greater friendships with one another. This then formed the social and reproductive basis of civilisation as we know it today. Man is an animal that creates its cultural ideas through natural instinct.

But humans had to spread in some way initially. So if the origins of the human race do lie in incestuous relations then it does not necessarily mean these relations were unnatural and devious. Perhaps they were merely a way of making the species large enough to practice exogamy. Thus, as well as incest taboo being but one way of defining our cultural moment, that most members of modern society consider incest disgusting and unthinkable shows how much physical and intellectual progress we have made.

[ElRaja]

Originally Posted by James Incest is born out of the innate human sexual drive, while incest taboo is the last remaining taboo in society and also the strongest. Incest has been suppressed across centuries of human culture by certain cultural and behavioural norms, which are argued to have begun when men after making friends first agreed to swap sisters, as they (like all humans) had a conscious need for sexual gratification but also an unconscious and fundamental aversion to incest. They acted upon the latter to move away from endogamy and encourage the greater diversity and decency in exogamy, whilst also forging greater friendships with one another. This then formed the social and reproductive basis of civilisation as we know it today. Man is an animal that creates its cultural ideas through natural instinct. But humans had to spread in some way initially. So if the origins of the human race do lie in incestuous relations then it does not necessarily mean these relations were unnatural and devious. Perhaps they were merely a way of making the species large enough to practice exogamy. Thus, as well as incest taboo being but one way of defining our cultural moment, that most members of modern society consider incest disgusting and unthinkable shows how much physical and intellectual progress we have made.

that makes sense from a social evolution point of view. . . .

however since most religious texts outright forbid incest it does create a certain dichotomy, since an all powerful diety could easily create two set of non related couples so there would be no need for incest in the first place.

[Mohsin]

I remember in Primary school the local priest came to our class and gave us a lecture on Christianity...he also bought some 'mini-Bibles' and also some electric candles. (I WAS 8/9 at the time) I took the Bible but was much more interested in the electric candle lol

[Saqs]

Originally Posted by James Nice OP. I didn't know that you could request/receive the Koran for free, I bought a reputed translation a couple of years back and quite enjoyed the read, so much do I did it again. A third read would equal the amount of times that I have read the Bible.

And would surpass the amount of times the majority of Muslims have read it.

[James]

Originally Posted by ElRaja that makes sense from a social evolution point of view. . . . however since most religious texts outright forbid incest it does create a certain dichotomy, since an all powerful diety could easily create two set of non related couples so there would be no need for incest in the first place.

Yep. So I wonder, is there such thing as an all-powerful deity

Most religious texts also outright forbid a lot of other things that are arguably natural behaviours; these texts then are just one part of the culture humans have created, nothing more.

[James]

Originally Posted by Saqib S And would surpass the amount of times the majority of Muslims have read it.

Heh. Well I wouldn't judge anyone on that to be honest. I was lucky enough to have the kind of upbringing and education where I've always been encouraged to seek knowledge, learn new things and think for myself. Combine that with being mostly non-religious and I can just treat the Koran like a book, taking a certain amount from it through critical study and sense of enjoyment. It is largely demystified to me, unintimidating.

Meanwhile born Muslims are given more of a mandate than I ever have been (a situation that I hold respect for actually - and you can also then see why Muslims are so easily offended by criticisms of their religion). They are required to treat the Koran as much more than a book. Thus as well as creating a strong religiousity, that mandate in itself could create a certain aversion to or even fear of getting to grips with the text.

Teaching a person to be religious from a young age has a very complex effect on their psychological development.

[Looney]

Originally Posted by ElRaja its still incest though.... what stories are these btw, surely there would be some other source to verify considerin (i just googled this) ibn kathir was born 700 years after the founding of islam....

http://www.islamawareness.net/Prophets/adam.html The pinnacle of earthly bliss was reached when Adam and Eve witnessed the birth of their 1st children, a set of twins. Adam was a devoted father and Eve a contented mother. The twins were Cain (Qabil) and his sister. Later Eve gave birth to a second set of twins, Abel (Habil) and his sister. The family enjoyed the bounties and fruits of the earth provided by their Lord. The children grew up to be strong and healthy young adults. Cain tilled the land while Abel raised cattle. The time arrived when the two young men desired life partners. This was part of Allah’s plan for mankind, to multiply and form nations with different cultures and colors. Allah revealed to Adam that he should marry each son to the twin sister of the other. Adam instructed his children according to Allah's command, but Cain was displeased with the partner chosen for him, for Abel's twin sister was not as beautiful as his own. It appears that since the beginning of time, physical beauty has been a factor in the attraction between man and women. This attraction caused Cain to envy his brother Abel. He rebelled against Allah's command by refusing to accept his father's advice. At first glance Cain's rebellion might appear strange, but we should remember that although man has a pure nature, the potential for dichotomy exists. In other words, he had both good and bad qualities. He can become greedy, covetous,possessive, selfish and even destructive. Man is, therefore capable of seeking self-satisfaction even if it leads to failure in this life and in the hereafter. The path to goodness lies in harnessing the enemy within him, his baser self by controlling evil thoughts and deeds and practicing moderation in his desires and actions. His reward then will be the delights of this world and the hereafter. Thus Allah tests us through our divided nature. Adam was in a dilemma. He wanted peace and harmony in his family, so he invoked Allah for help. Allah commanded that each son offer a sacrifice, and he whose offering was accepted would have right on his side. Abel offered his best camel while Cain offered his worst grain. His sacrifice was not accepted by Allah because of his disobedience to his father and the insincerity in his offering. This enraged Cain even further. Realizing that his hopes marrying his own beautiful sister were fading, he threatened his brother. "I will kill you! I refuse to see you happy while I remain unhappy!" Abel feeling sorry for his brother, replied, "It would be more proper for you, my brother to search for the cause of your unhappiness and then walk in the way of peace. Allah accepts the deeds only from those who serve and fear Him, not from those who reject His Commands." Abel was intelligent, obedient, and always ready to obey the will of Allah. This contrasted sharply with his brother who was arrogant, selfish and disobedient to his Lord. Abel did not fear his brother's threats, but neither did he want his brother to be hurt, Allah had blessed Abel with purity and compassion. Hoping to allay the hatred seething in his brother Abel said, " My brother, you are deviating from the right path and are sinful in your decisions. It is better that you repent to Allah and forget about your foolish threat. But if you do not then I will leave the matter in the hands of Allah. You alone will bear the consequence of your sin, for the Fire is the reward of the wrong-doers." This brotherly plea did nothing to lessen the hatred in Cain's heart, nor did he show fear of Allah's punishment. Even familial considerations were cast aside. Cain struck his brother with a stone killing him instantly. This was the 1st death and the 1st criminal act committed by man on earth. When Abel had not appeared for some time, Adam began to search for him but found no trace of his beloved son. He asked Cain about Abel's whereabouts. Cain insolently replied that he was not his brother's keeper nor his protector. From these words his father understood that Abel was dead and Adam was filled with grief. Meanwhile Cain did not know what to do with his brother's corpse. He carried it on his back wandering from place to place trying to hide it. His anger had now subsided and his conscience was saddled with guilt. He was tiring under the burden of the corpse which had started to have a stench. As a mercy, and to show that dignity could be retained even in death, Allah sent two ravens that began fighting, causing the death of one. The victorious bird used its beak and claws to dig a hole in the ground, rolled its victim into it and covered it with sand. Witnessing this, Cain was overcome with shame and remorse. "Woe unto me!" he exclaimed. "I was unable to do what this raven has done, that is to hide my brother's corpse." Cain then buried his brother. This was also the 1st burial of man. Adam was utterly grief stricken by the loss of his two sons. One was dead, the other was won over by the devil. Adam prayed for his son and turned to mundane matters for he had to toil for his sustenance. At the same time he was a prophet advising his children and grandchildren, telling them about Allah and calling them to believe in Him. He told them about Iblis and warned them by recounting his own experience with the devil and of how the devil had tempted Cain to kill his brother. Years and years passed, Adam grew old and his children spread all over the earth. Muhammad Ibn Ishaq related that when Adam's death drew near, he appointed his son Seth to be his successor and taught him the hours of the day and night along with their appropriate acts of worship. He also foretold to him the floor that would come. After Adam's death, his soth Seth (Shiith) took over the responsibilities of prophethood, according to a hadith narrated by Abu Dhar. Abu Dhar narrated that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: "Allah sent down one hundred and four psalms, of which fifty were sent down to Seth." (Sahih al Bukhari) When the time of his death came Seth's son Anoush succeeded him. He in turn, was succeeded by his son Qinan, claim that Mahlabeel was the King of the Seven Regions, that he was the first one to cut down trees to build cities and large forts and that he built the cities of Babylonia. He reigned for a period of forty years. When he died his duties were taken ov er by his son Yard, who on his death, bequeathed them to his son Khonoukh, who is Idris (pbuh) according to the majority of the scholars.

You can read more stories of other prophets , or read Adam AS full story here : http://www.islamawareness.net/Prophets/

Ibn Kathir himself is said to be a pretty credible source . Spent his life doing research on Islam and its history .

[Namak_Halaal]

Originally Posted by James Heh. Well I wouldn't judge anyone on that to be honest. I was lucky enough to have the kind of upbringing and education where I've always been encouraged to seek knowledge, learn new things and think for myself. Combine that with being mostly non-religious and I can just treat the Koran like a book, taking a certain amount from it through critical study and sense of enjoyment. It is largely demystified to me, unintimidating. Meanwhile born Muslims are given more of a mandate than I ever have been (a situation that I hold respect for actually - and you can also then see why Muslims are so easily offended by criticisms of their religion). They are required to treat the Koran as much more than a book. Thus as well as creating a strong religiousity, that mandate in itself could create a certain aversion to or even fear of getting to grips with the text. Teaching a person to be religious from a young age has a very complex effect on their psychological development.

I have found there is key difference between someone choosing to be a Muslim rather than being a Muslim because they were born into a Muslim family.

[Looney]

Originally Posted by oyei sad but it is true, still people follow these rituals in Pakistan, rather thn learning the true meaning that is written in this book, we have created superficial ritual, which has no basis in Islam, It still puzzle me that some Pastor had decided to burnt a Quran, and People thousands of mile away destroy their own hometown in protest, I just can not understand this logic, ther are thousands of people who has memorized this book word by word, and yet some still believe that by burning a copy of Quran would eliminate the entirety of Islam from this world. Do not get me wrong, i understand the motive behind the burning of Quran, but are we that ignorant to the fact that by destroying our hometown in protest would do any good to the rest of the muslim world.

Yeah , it just makes it even more bizarre because even in Islam , this is how you dispose of Quran or its pages . The basic problem comes down to not having enough knowledge and education which is limiting our intelligence and our ability to think for ourselves .

[Bilal7]

Originally Posted by ElRaja that makes sense from a social evolution point of view. . . . however since most religious texts outright forbid incest it does create a certain dichotomy, since an all powerful diety could easily create two set of non related couples so there would be no need for incest in the first place.

Originally Posted by James Yep. So I wonder, is there such thing as an all-powerful deity Most religious texts also outright forbid a lot of other things that are arguably natural behaviours; these texts then are just one part of the culture humans have created, nothing more.

Some nice logic here but the thing is, He is the All-Powerful diety. He has his own plans which are definitely better than any human's. Hence the title of God.

God had permitted Incest for Adam's people but not for the latter Prophets (pbuta).
Simples.

At Topic: I did this Da'wah work too, this summer. Let me just say that it is quite pathetic that some 'Muslims' blow a fuse when you invite them to the mosque while some non-Muslims readily come along.

[James]

Originally Posted by Namak_Halaal I have found there is key difference between someone choosing to be a Muslim rather than being a Muslim because they were born into a Muslim family.

Interesting. What difference specifically?

[Ismailtoca]

Originally Posted by James Interesting. What difference specifically?

The person who turns into a muslim, has a better understanding of it (most of the time), and practices it with actual faith.

Alot of the born muslims just practice religion with tradition without sincerity

[Robert]

Originally Posted by amateurdentist you made his day robert most probably good on you! Did you read any of the material?

Well, unfortunately the Qur'an is very small and I need new specs to read it! So I have put in on a shelf for safe keeping.

But the biog is a bit bigger, and interesting concerning Islam and women, and Islam and science.

[Namak_Halaal]

Originally Posted by James Interesting. What difference specifically?

Ignorance.

A person who chooses a particular faith will do so because he has reasons to, i.e, research.

People born into a particular faith take their faith for granted and blindly subscribe to their faith.