Sehwags poor odi record

I continue to wonder why verinder sehwag is continue to be picked in the current indian odi sqaud. Essentially he is seen as a dasher and is expected to get india off to a flayer but looking at his recent record its pretty woeful to say the least.

Before the Asia cup in 2004 sehwag was targeting a personal milestone of 200 runs in a single inns in an odi. Since hes made those comments hes struggled majorly.

Asia cup 2004 - present (2nd odi v west indies 2006)

58 inns 1 n.o 1586 runs @ 27.82 - 1 (100) 8 (50)

1 hundred in last 58 odis is a poor return for someone who on the whole bats at top of the order. 8 fifties in 58 odis is also a poor return.

last 40 odis inns

40 inns 1 n.o 1047 runs @ 26.85 - 0 (100) 5 (50)

Again a return of 5 fifties in 40 odis inns is poor..

I wonder if india will continue to persist with sehwag or wether he will get the chop at some point.

His personal record may not look good ,but even whlie being out of form his 20's n 30's are crucial n team prespective...india has a vry high percentage of wins on occasions wes shewag has scored 35+ scores...!

Another prime example of "highly over-rated",supposedly "famed" Indian batting line up!

lets see if his "crucial" 12 wins india their match with windies today lol

whats his strike rate been in these last 58 games?

the good thing will sehwag is that even if he falls for a sub 35 score, he'll usually make 25 off less then 25 balls...we usually get a rollicking start, which pushes us to a large total.

This is the beauty of being an Indian fans, always find something positive in their players even when they are sitting on **** hole.

umm i can pretty much say the same about pakistani fans about afridi. sorry had to say it

afridi's form vs sehwag's form is a no contest lol

aka afridi wipes the floor

THE DIFFERENCE IS THOUGH AFRIDI IS A VITAL BOWLING OPTION AND OUR BEST ALLROUNDER (WITH NO REALSITIC COMPETITION) AND A RARE GOOD FIELDER AND A BIG PRESENCE WHILE INDIA HAVE VERY GOOD BATSMAN e.g. LAXMAN WAITING IN THE WINGS OR COULD PROMOTE PATHAN OR DHONI TO PINCH HIT AT THE TOP AND BRING IN A MIDDLE ORDER BATSMEN

And when Afridi does it every ODI, he is a "beast with no brains"? Quite hypocritical if you ask me Tupac mere bhai.

You don't have to say sorry because you are right. Here is Afridi's records in last 40 innings is;

45 40 2 848 102 22.31 1 3 5

Yes, his batting ave is way (4 point) below Sehwag's but the comparison between Sehwag and Afridi is not fair because;

1) Sehwag is an opner and Afridi in his last 40 innings, batted as an opener only 13 times and if you compare VS and SA averages, they are the same!

13 13 0 341 102 26.23 1 1 2

2) Sehwag does not play as all rounder where as Afridi does!

3) Afridi's strike rate is better that Sehwag's. So, a relatively quick 30 from Afridi is better than Sehwag's 30!

So, I would say....Afridi has a little more value than Sehwag as a whole package.

i agree... its ok with shewag but not with Afridi?

i never said that the_game. Some of my bro'z might have. The difference lies between the two teams and the way these two might behave. Sehwag knows that he has Sachin Tendulkar at the other end, followed by a middle order with the likes of Rahul Dravid, Yuvraj Singh, Mohammad Kaif, MS Dhoni, and Raina. That's pretty rock solid, even with the collase of today's game. Therefore he goes out and plays shots. He doesn't mindlessly slog like Afridi does at times (instant reminders being, at Rawalpindi, at Lahore in 2006, in Patnam in 2005...probably more). Who does Afridi have after him? An opening partner that is not defined, and a shaky middle order, especially as Inzamam Ul Haq has been going through a rough patch in the one dayers lately.

In any case Afridi cannot be dropped from the ODI side. He'll get you quick runs, he's a good bowler, and a great fielder. Virender Sehwag is a graduated version of Afridi in terms of batting.

See another example of "higly over-rated" batting line up....and hypocrisy!

In th reply above, everybody including Rahul Dravid, Yuvraj Singh, Mohammad Kaif, MS Dhoni, and Raina is worth mentioning.........but who does Pakistan has......beside Inzi - with a "rough patch" with no mention of his 10,000+ run ODI runs.

Also, who are Yousaf, Younis and Shoaib Malik by the way?......nobodies in comparison to Rahul Dravid, Yuvraj Singh, Mohammad Kaif, MS Dhoni, and Raina. Right?

Spot on

to say pakistan middle order is not strong doesn't make any sense
malik, yousuf, inzi, younis, razzi, kami.....If thats not strong then i dont know what is strong

It doesn't matter of the average. To be in team of india he should have a good average and strike rate with chappel and I think he is doing good for that.

Comparing Afridi & shewag is useless. One loves to hit 6's while the latter loves 4's. Afridi has won Pakistan matches with his bowling alone or brought them back into the game many times since Woolmer's era while Shewag doesnt even bowl much!

Just to cut the whole story short him and Kaif should be kicked from the team.And Ganguly should be given another go.

I admit Afridi is a good entertainer and adds quick runs but he is no that good! Neither am I saying that Sehwag is a great player either!

Let me shed some light on you fellas in comparison of Afridi and Sehwag!
This is ODI comparison only!

Firstly, they are quick scorers but the comment you made that Sehwag is no comparison to Sehwag, its not justified. Let me share some stats.

Everybody thinks Afridi's strike rate of 108 is the only thing. Look at his average which is 23.53 and has scored 4824 runs from 214 innings.

On the other hand, Sehwag has a strike rate of 96.49 and has an average of 31.69 and has scored 4406 from 146 innings.

So you see Afridi has scored only 418 more runs than Sehwag while Afridi has played 68 more innings than Sehwag!

Sehwag
149 146 7 4405 130 31.69 4565 96.49 7 21 612 60 62 0

Afridi
224 214 9 4824 109 23.53 4460 108.16 4 26 454 215 81 0

Afridi has hit 454 sixes and 215 fours
Sehwag has hit 60 sixes and 612 fours

So I have presented a factual comparison of Afridi vs Sehwag! Which other people I think have not done! And you can see the comparison for yourself! The rest is your own interpretation.

So, you ARE saying they can't be compared..right?
For one, Afridi has batted as an opener only 62% (139 matches out of total 224 matches) of the times. So, how can we compare an opener (Sehwag) with a player who is not an full time opener anymore.

sehwag needs to get his mindset right for the odis. he wants to hit a boundary in EVERY over of an odi, which is clearly not gonna happen.

if he approaches odis like he approaches tests, he'll be unstoppable in both. very scary prospect, and i can tell you that its probably because of this they keep him around the odi team.

Sehwag has just seemed to have forgotton how to bat in one day games now. He looks clueless. If he just plays like he does in tests, he'll be great. His foot movement has gone from minimal to none at all. He seems to be playing from memory at the moment.

not nobodies, but they are more prone to a collapse then India.

Just because Ind is having a nice run in ODIs currently???

Can you statistically prove that Pak is more prone to collapse???

I just quickly checked, since Dravid's debut Pakistan has played 313 ODIs and India has played 341 ODI.
In those ODIs, both teams has been all out for a score of less than 125 on 10 times each. I did not include any scores where a team was not all out.

..........and speaking of "strong batting line", India has scored 300+ runs in a innings 34 times in 341 ODIs since Dravid's debut...i.e. 9.97% where as Pakistan has scored 300+ runs 31 times in 313 matches...since Dravid's debut...i.e. 9.90%.

IDENTICAL!!!

So much for the strong/famous/over-hyped/over-rated batting line up vs "prone to collapse" batting line up!!!

But the most important thing is---Pak has won 7.5% more ODIs than India (i.e. 24-25 more ODIs over 300+ total!);
-----P----W----L----T/N-----W%
Ind 341 167 157 17 48.97%
pak 313 177 130 6 56.55%

*** Again, all stats above are since April 3, 1996 (Dravid's first ODI).

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/col...ory/247851.html

check that out. And yes, on current form, India is less prone to collapse compared to Pakistan. Proof? 17 straight chased victories. 4 Of them, on Pakistani soil. Pakistan's top and middle order didn't fare to well in Rawalpindi, Lahore, and Multan.


even then, compare the batting lineups

Sachin Tendulkar vs. Salman Butt
Virender Sehwag vs. Shoaib Malik
Rahul Dravid vs. Younis Khan
Yuvraj Singh vs. Inzamam Ul Haq
Mohammad Kaif vs. Mohammad Yousuf
MS Dhoni vs. Kamran Akmal

Our tail regularly contributes, with Rammu, Pathan, and Bhajji getting into the act. What lineup would you have?

-----P----W----L----T/N-----W%
Ind 341 167 157 17 48.97%
pak 313 177 130 6 56.55%

I'll take Pakistan please

Yes....I did check it out.....nice stats - since April 2005.
You guys are having your first "nice" winning streak....so, don't know how to handle it yet..

Here is team India's and Pak's ODI record in 2000s;
P W L T n/r win%
India: 2000s 195 103 86 0 6 54%
Pakistan: 2000s 192 110 79 0 3 58%


Even AFTER your "great" 17 win streak, you are still waaaaaaay BELOW Pak!

Now, let talk about winning streaks;
Here is Paksitan's top two yearly win/loss record in ODIs;

1990 21 16 5 0 0 76%
1994 28 20 7 1 0 73%

Here is India's top two yearly win/loss record in ODIs;
1994 25 16 8 0 1 67%
1993 18 11 6 1 0 64%

India has this record going on for 2006, which will change as they play more matches;
2006 15 11 4 0 0 73%

See, how we are USED to streaks and wining while you guys get a decent streak in ages........and you have no idea what your are talking about!


.......and who says "chasing and winning" better than just plain "winning"?




I'll take the line up on the right side with my eyes closed because this is the line that has given us a record of 64-40 against the batting line up on the left side!

By the way.....Kaif vs Yousaf.....what a joke? What is the kaif's recent run of scores???

Also, Shoaib vs Sehwag.......another joke..... subject of this thread says it all!

two points: current form. Pakistan's 60 wins against India in ODIs are an overall measure... these above men are NOT in the lineup most of the time in that figure. Consider current form, and then come back and argue it.

Last 50 ODIz

Tendulkar- 2014 runs at 44.85 vs. Butt- 961 runs at 31
Sehwag- 1425 runs at 29.08 vs. Malik- 1881 runs at 41.8
Dravid - 2022 runs at 48.14 vs. Khan- 1331 runs at 30.25
Yuvraj - 1774 runs at 44.35 vs. Inzamam - 1649 runs at 43.39
Kaif- 1196 runs at 33.22 vs. Yousuf - 1624 runs at 36.90
Dhoni- 1392 runs at 49.17 vs. Kami - 913 runs at 30.43

Have a look at them...India outclassing everyone here, only Malik is hugely better then Sehwag, and Yousuf marginally better then Kaif. Notable exceptions have been made for Dhoni, Butt, and Kami. These three men have not played 50 ODIs yet, and therefore the stats are presented as to what they have played so far.

The averages:
India per batsmen: 1637 runs, at an average of 41.47
PAK per batsmen: 1393 runs, at an average of 35.6

take your pick

So while Yousuf is "marginally better" than Kaif (a difference of 3), Inzi is "outclassed" by Yuvraj by a whopping total of less than a run per innings. I will admit though that India has been in tremendous ODI form, although in tests they have a lot to do

I would agree India's current form is quite impressive, but to say "oh typical Pakistani collapse this and that" is just outrageous. Even though we are prone to collapsing, India is equally prone as shown through recent events such as the 2nd ODI, Mumbai, Karachi and so on.

Hate to nit pick....but in your orginal comment....you did not mention Sachin.....(see below)......now all of a sudden, you replace Raina with Sachin...just make stats look good.

"Sehwag knows that he has Sachin Tendulkar at the other end, followed by a middle order with the likes of Rahul Dravid, Yuvraj Singh, Mohammad Kaif, MS Dhoni, and Raina."



How do you define "Current form"? You picked last 50 ODIs where as another person can pick last 5 or last 10 or even last 100 ODI to define current form.....and even if I take last 50 ODIs, NZ has better record than India;
50 30 17 0 3 64% NZ
50 30 20 0 0 60% IND
50 26 21 1 2 55% RSA
50 24 21 0 5 53% WI
50 24 25 0 1 49% PAK
50 24 25 0 1 49% SL
50 22 25 1 2 47% AUS
50 21 24 2 3 47% ENG

.....yes, I know you listed batting ave of the last 50 ODIs and I listed win/loss records of the teams in last 50 ODIs. As you can see difference of 6 win only b/w Pak and Ind.

Also, don't forget your orginal comment that started the WHOLE debate/argument;


You don't mention anything in above statement that Ind has better batting in only last 50 ODI. Twsiting the facts and your own statments to your advanage.... right?

....and you also forgot that Afridi is not opening regularly lately. He has opened only 17 times in last 50 ODI. So, your orginal comment (above) is not valid at all.



Go to the first table in the article and see where Bangladesh is in comparison to Australia. By your logic, Bangladesh middle order is better than Australia's? Right?
If yes, I'd love to see man to man comparison between Aus and BD batting - like the one you did between Ind/Pak. If no, then.....you agree than that article does not mean anything.


What are these ave??

in the below statemen..i DID mention Sachin. Besides, Sachin is only out for a short period of time. He'll be back in no time. Raina was not included since he's only played a handful of ODIs.



hmm...I wonder where NZ came into this from? The discussion was comparing the merits of the batting orders of India and Pakistan, no?



It's not about wins and losses here. It's about the batting order collapsing . A match can still be won by good bowlers if the batting order collapses. Read into India vs England at Delhi.



no....only thought 50 ODIs would be a good sample size. You can play around with it if you like.



ok..but you'll have to agree, middle order or not, Afridi is more prone to play the stupidest shot in eternity then Sehwag? Abu Dhabi, Rawalpindi, Lahore, Vishakhapatnam...i'm sure there's a dozen more. Some of the reasons they might call Afridi stupid is because he plays shots like these, or he scruffs up the pitch while TV cameras are watching him. That's maybe why they call him stupid.


If I'm not mistaken, Bangladesh has a huge winning percentage this year. I think they played 5 ODIs vs Kenya or something, and whopped them. So there averages might be inflated. Even then, the stats say what the stats say, Bangladesh probably has been more solid in run chases then Australia this year. Who will argue with these stats? It doesn't mean that the middle order is better then Australia's. Maybe Bangladesh, in the opposition they have played in the recent past, have been more adept as chasing totals.

You are using one match as an example? If that was case couldn't someone than suggest when Pakistan defended 192 vs West Indies? Or when they defended 204 against England?

Typical response from across the border……can’t argue in cricketing terms or skill, then digging/throwing dirt! Nothing new here….!!!

I can also list Indian players who have their fair share of STUPID things but won’t……just not to stink up the thread.

As far as Afridi playing stupid shots is concerned, well….more often than not, when those stupid shots “connect”, bowlers like Harbhajan (remember Lahore test – one over and 4 stupid shots), Kumble, Irfan (remember Kanpur 101 in 46 balls with as much as 9 stupid shots) run for the cover. Here are some other matches where he has played few of those shots;
1) 1999 - Chennai. 148 in 191 balls with 3 stupid shots
2) 2005 - Banglore. 58 in 34 ball with 2 stupid shots.
3) 2006 - Lahore. 103 in 80 balls with 7 stupid shots.
4) 2006 - Faisalabad. 156 in 128 balls with 6 stupid shots.
5) 2006 - Karachi. 60 in 49 balls with only 1 stupid shots

6) 1998 - Toronto. 109 in 94 balls with 6 stupid shots.
7) 2004 - Rawalpindi. 80 in 58 balls with 4 stupid shots.

Ask anybody on this forum, everybody love him for those “stupid” shots.

If he was not playing those shot, he’d be out of the team. So, according to your logic, our selectors are stupid who keep selecting him in spite of playing those stupid shots!

sure, you could use them too. But it's still besides the point. The fact is simply "Batting Order Collapsing", not "Batting Order Collapsing and then being rescued by bowlers in the 2nd innings"

No.....it is the same.....!!!!
Read your comment below (in color).
If Sehwag is genious enoug to "know" that if he gets out, the "rock solid" batting will take care of the things.........then how do you know that Afridi is not thinking the SAME way that if gets out wacking Harbhajan, our bowling is strong enough (remember Karachi test from 39-6 to a solid win) to take care of the things?



i never said that the_game. Some of my bro'z might have. The difference lies between the two teams and the way these two might behave. Sehwag knows that he has Sachin Tendulkar at the other end, followed by a middle order with the likes of Rahul Dravid, Yuvraj Singh, Mohammad Kaif, MS Dhoni, and Raina. That's pretty rock solid, even with the collase of today's game. Therefore he goes out and plays shots. He doesn't mindlessly slog like Afridi does at times (instant reminders being, at Rawalpindi, at Lahore in 2006, in Patnam in 2005...probably more). Who does Afridi have after him? An opening partner that is not defined, and a shaky middle order, especially as Inzamam Ul Haq has been going through a rough patch in the one dayers lately.

that's the first i've ever heard of a batsmen given the license of going for there shots based on the fact that they trust there bowlers to defend whatever scores they put up. Didn't India chase down 4 totals in a row recently? The strategy needs a rethink then.

In any case Afridi is beyond thinking. In fact he doesn't think. He just goes out and plays, no fuss, no muss. Sehwag is similar, except that he knows how to curb himself at the first sight of an annoying bowler. Afridi doesn't, he goes after Pathan regardless of the risk involved. The results are sometimes spectacular, read Lahore, Faisalabad, Holland. Sometimes they are comical, read Abu Dhabu, Lahore, Rawalpindi. That is why Afridi is called beast with no brains. When it comes off, its' great (Kanpur Hundred), when it doesn't, well, what can you do?

You have to realzie that he is a bowler who can bat.....but on the other shewage is a genuin batsman

Like you said sehsan, the difference is Afridi is a bowler who can Bat. And Shewag is a batsman who cannot.

I didn't say that it is the case.....I said, if Sehwag can be given a license to go for its shots because of "other batsmen" will score ---- how it is different is from Afridi being given license to play his shots becuase we have waaaaaaaaay better bowling attack than "other" teams!



So what exactly Sehwag did in those matches?
You keep forgetting that this thread is about Sehwag - not Afridi....



Like I said earlier, Pak selectors are so stupid that they keep selecting him even when Afridi can't think.
OTOH, the "graduated verision" of Afridi may be ready to get dropped from your ODI team!



I am glad you used word comical because to me MORE comical was stumps flying out of the ground in Karachi test's 2nd inning.

Here is what that mindless beast done in last 10 test matches;
10 18 0 854 156 47.44 3 4

Here is what he done to India....in test matches;
8 15 0 709 156 47.26 3 3

Just thank your lucky stars that Afridi bats the ways he bats. If he was not playing those "stupid" shots, those 709 riuns might have been 1418 runs at an average of 97.00!!

... like Tupac would say....."on the CURRENT form"!!

Wait we are talking about Sehwag curbing himself? You mean take a poke outside off stump Sehwag? The same Sehwag who decided to charge a medium pace Kenyan and get bowled(ICC CT 2004)?

Australia probably, and you'll admit to this, has the better bowling attack then Pakistan, no? Do they give a license to a player to go out and slog it out? Does South Africa? I'm pretty sure Afridi isn't thinking along those lines.

the only match Sehwag played in while chasing against Pakistan in Pakistan in 2006 he scored 65 off 60 balls. By the way, Veeru Sehwag will not be dropped before Sachin returns. If someone is gonna get dropped, it'll be Kaif before Veeru.

I'm not even sure what your arguing anymore to be honest. This thread was about Sehwag's poor ODI form. Afridi has been brilliant test matches, sure. No one is denying that.

Shewag Is a good player, i think he let his ego go to his head after playing against us. Who could blame him, we dropped him a lot. He wont get away with that against any semi decent team,
He is good enough to work out his mental block and score well, But I dont think he will do well a did as he is being worked out.

This thread is created to discuss sehwag form are lack of it, but people here made it as afridi vs sehwag thred and later some joined action and made it as india, pakistan batting deeds and what not.
I personally feel he clearly lacks techniqe for the opener. nevertheless he is exciting player when he is on song, well that's not happening often at the present moment. He may play couple of good knocks in next 10 times he go out to bat but thats not good enough. He became one of those lottery players when they come good its all good & when they dont team is in trouble. having said that i dont want him to be fired I would rather want him to come down the order some where no 4 or 5.

until he shaves his back hair, he wont be able to lean into his drives. simple physics. therefore he will countinue to suffer problems with the swinging delivery and short pitched ball.

but the other dilemma is how hell reach his back as his so call "tid" is in the way.

Never thought about it that way

Sehwag is on a bad run at the moment, but even a 20 or 30 would be good enough for the Indian team, since it has a sold batting line up with the batting going right down to number 9.

Sehwag is a clever player, he can play according to the situation, he has the ability to stay thier right till the end, when quick wickets are fallen, and keep the run rate up, he can also make big partnerships in difficult situations, he can tear the attack anyday, and get huge scores like in tests and odis, has we all seen in Pakistan, Australia, he can play on any track.

Even in worser situations when 3 wickets were gone in the first 10 overs for 58 runs chasing a mammouth total, he has the ability to stay thier till the end, and take the attack to the cleaners.

how many times has sehwag stayed till the end and won india a game ?

I dont mean right till the end, near the end, on a few occasions he has, in very, very important matches he has often fired, got India off to a good start, even when the rate was going up he was still thier blazing.

gooooooooood question.....

He was not out 7 times in his ODI career of 146 innings.

1) 2 of 7 of those not outs came when matchs was abonded because of rain in Sri Lanka and he was at the crease.

2) Once he was 11* batting at #6 and that does not count.

3) Once 55* chasing 90 all out by Kenya.

4) Once 55* at #3 after 258 opening partnership by gangu and Sachin.

5) Once 77* batting at #4 - chasing 171 all out by RSA.

6) Once 114* batting at #2 - chasing 200 in 27.1 overs (D/L method) when WI had scored 300 runs in 50 overs.

.............well so much for "staying till end" ability.


P.S. I think, Pakistani so called "fans" should learn from Tupac and Playa. Here, they are bending backwards to support Sehwag when the he going thru the worest of the forms. They are still supporting him. My hat off to them!

Now comapre this to a lot of our fans, a couple of bad performances by ANY of our players, we start calling for their head!!!!!!!!
Learn kids, learn!! Support your players and team!

Sehwag is a vital player to our team, he has won us a lot of matches with the bat, and given us good starts with the bat also, even if he gets a quick 20 or 30 its going to be very useful for the team. He can also bowl part time off-breaks and he is improving with his feilding.

His on fire today!

i think he got irfan to shave his back for this match.

Sehwag is a good player and it would be unwise to drop him ;)

i still say SAURAV DADA is 10 times better then sehwag ;) bring him back atleast for the one dayers ;)

Well played today.

It was a terrific innings - welcome return to ODI form for him.

Add one more collapse from today;
India in first 29 overs - 176/2 with a run rate of 6.07
next 21 overs - 71/8 with a run rate of 3.38!!

He has recently opened his secn restaurant .....420,by any chance u worried about him running you out of business?

sure, teams collapse sometimes ,add to the fact that Sachin and Yuvi, our two best bats, aren't playing...

didn't congratulate Sehwag for his 96 huh? typical

..................

"Best batting line" is supposed to have "best back ups" you know........plus, Sachin has not been playing for a long time now. So, technically, only Yuvi is missing.

From the looks of it, Sachin may have already played his last international game!



4 fifties in last 30 innings.....well, wasn't he due for a big score. He has to justify his Rs 10 million per year salary some how! Good for him, Indian cricket and you!
Big congrats to him... ! you feel better now?

nah, just find it funny how you mention nothing of Sehwag after him getting 96. sour grapes

I can say the same thing about your thoughts on Afridi........but it is funnier that I didn't see any comments or congrats on WI win.......I can understand that ....since you were pretty pumped up with "current form" of the team the "greatest batting line up " earlier in this thread!

he hasn't done anything on the international scene since his century in Lahore, so whyfor the congratz? If he plays a good knock, i'll be the first to say congratz.

Check the game thread, I said congratz to Sarwan on a great hundred.

So anyone still in favor of dropping Sehwag?

Match not over Marooned bhaijan .

its just a shame he cudnt score when it mattered

Thora flawed analysis....