England should quit playing ODI cricket [Merged]

The last time england had a decent ODI team was back in 1992. Since then in the short form of the game they have been pretty poor. Away from home they havent won a bilateral series against a non-minnow side since 1992.

The form and performances in 1996,1999,2003 world cup where mediocre to say the least. Englands main priority always seems to be test and they should just pack in the odis. Most international teams are setting themselves for a tilt at the CT in india and the WC in west indies in 07. i can pretty much say englands only focus is the Ashes this winter, they dont really care about these two tourneys.

Most teams are pretty much settling on a core selection for these two odi tourneys, england just seem to chop and change again and again.

England should just pack the odi form of game in!

I wish they would. It's pathetic to see a team losing over and over again.

"Its like watching Zimbabwe but in blue"

Sorry needed to say that

The thing is, England's ODI team is a great form of comedy. It is always hilarious seeing a bunch of so called professional sportsman being destroyed to an absolute pulp (especially if it is the English cricket team). Without this 'comedy value', cricket will lose some of its appeal.

There were numerous calls to relegate Bangaladesh and Zimbabwe from Test cricket. Can this be followed in ODI? Or Is ICC being partial?

England are horrible at odi cricket agreed but injuries have to be factored in

Injuries aren't an excuse.

you can't replace flintoff though

Can't wait for the Akhtar excuses to come out later this year.........

Was that a bite Rob....

They still won't beat THE Duncan Flethcer excuses. Oh, our boys were staying in 5 star hotels. That's completely the reason we lost.

pakistan have won without akhtar before and they'll do it again
no doubt!

i dnt think we will need to make akhtar excuses, he will be fine and playing, our other fast bowlers can also fill his space and preform like him!

The only excuses this summer will be coming from you.

did i hear the naitonal anthem of rob H - ashes only

Yeah, cause we lose all our series without Shoaib innit?

Without Shoaib, we've drew with India, West Indies, and Sri Lanka, and thats only in the past year.

yaar we beat Sri Lanka without Shoaib

To be honest that wasnt to hard and we should have beaten west indies aswell.

Although in ODIs we have a series win against all of them

Forgot about that. ;)

And convincing wins, I might add.

Can someone post the "england excuses for losing to Pak in Pak" and dedicate to Rob pls

I don't know about packing in ODI's, but as an England fan, I certainly think we should be playing fewer. Playing series of seven ODI's, like we did in India is just ridiculous. The players of both sides end up just going through the motions, players have to be rested, and the overcrowded schedule means that some games end up being played in weather conditions unsuitable for cricket. Worse still, we end up having to play too many Test matches back to back.

You're right that England's priority in recent years has been with Test cricket, and I don't have a problem with that. The performance of our Test team is the most important thing. Ultimately, if we get whitewashed by Pakistan in the ODI's, not one person will care very much, and few will even remember, as long as we win the Test series.

Let's face it, one day matches are played first and foremost for the money they bring in. However for the last few years there has been a massive revival in interest in Test cricket. Days 1-3 of just about every Test match here not involving Bangladesh or Zimbabwe have sold out months in advance (often sooner than the one dayers), so the ECB doesn't need one day matches to bring in the revenue like it used to. There is certainly a strong case for a reduction in the number of one dayers. Reducing the number would increase the importance, so people might start taking these games more seriously.

I am disappointed in our performance against Sri Lanka in the current series, who although by no means a bad side, are the kind of team we really ought to beat in our own back yard, and I'm equally disappointed with what appears to me to be a lack of consistency in team selection for one dayers. One minute the selectors seem to be looking for a specialist one day team, then developing youth, then calling Hoggy back from his well-earned holiday in Goa, and now dredging up average (and by no means young) players from the county game.

It all smacks of the mess the Test team was in a few years ago, when a quick 50 in a one day match the previous Sunday was enough to get you selected to face the West Indies quicks in the forthcoming Test match!

Even though England's priority in recent years has been Test cricket, they have won only 2 of their last 10 test matches.

it's not excuse but fact.
at moment Eng missing player who can play through middle overs. They need to send KP at NO.5 or 6 but they are unable to do so coz of injuries. and one KP is gone earlier, there is no one else to play middle overs.

2nd best team in the world

England won that tourement in Sharjah in 97/98.

Look at the rankings. We confirmed our number two slot by thrashing our closest rivals for that position (India) in Mumbai, despite having a team that was nowhere near full strength. If Pakistan can beat us in this series, I don't know 100% how the system works, but I'm pretty sure they would go second, given they're only three points adrift, and would thoroughly deserve to.

The only thing is, I don't see it happening, especially given that Pakistan will be without Shoaib, and we're likely to have Harmison back.

You've got a good memory. I'm an England fan, and I'd forgotten that, too!

Thing is Harvey, we have done well WITHOUT Shoaib, so his absence wont hurt us too much. I am confident Pak will win the up-coming series against Eng.

The rankings? Funny how England fans are so obsessed with the rankings now but when they had you bottom of the pile (where you belong) back in 1999 they were just meaningless weren't they

No, in 1999 we were bottom of the pile and deserved to be. Now we're deservedly second. Why can't you give credit where it's due?

Asif, Dani, Afridi, are just a few who could do the job along with Sami.

Dani, although he didn't do too well with essex, will do well imo.

How does that work, Pakistan have won 3 and lost 1 of its last five tests against England.

India have won 2 and lost 1 of its last five tests against England.

Sri Lanka have won 2 and lost 1 of its last five tests against England.

After Australia Pakistan have been the most consistant team against the top teams.

We have only lost two series since the world cup to add. That too a firing Australian team at home, and than a strong Indian team that came straight from Australia. But we set the record straight this year vs India.

England had to win one of the series against India or Pakistan to claim second spot but they failed and then Sri Lanka maintained their series win over England.

because at the moment you don't desrve to be anywhere near 2nd. A side which has won 2 out of its last 10 test matches is not the 2nd best team in the world. I am sorry but there just aint two ways about it.

i dont know????

But it is not mutually exclusive choice between the two forms of the game. It is not that a team can only be good at one of the forms of the game.

In fact a good Test team should be a good LOI team, as generally good Test players are able to adapt.

Inshallah
Well said

Tell that to the ICC. It's their rankings that say England is second in the world.

Before the rules were changed a few years ago, there were some quite severe anomolies, but I think the current system is pretty good. If Pakistan win the series, I think that would put them second, and England would probably drop to fourth, which would be just about a fair reflection. My expectation though is that England will win the series and once again confirm its status as no. 2 in the world.

England will never be taken seriously as one of the worlds top teams if they can't play away from home. It seems as if English fans are still suffering from Ashes fever, even though the rest of the world has moved on somewhat. Keep in mind that they haven't won a series in several months, and they are very much underdogs in my eyes against Pakistan.

Come on!

Drawing a 3 Test series in India with a heavily depleted team (having had the best of the drawn 1st Test, don't forget) hardly constitutes not being able to play away from home! There were people saying that because of all the injuries we were going to lose that series 3-0, and we went into that series as rank outsiders, don't forget.

Apart from defeat in Pakistan, our last away tour was to SA, where we deservedly won 2-1 over a gruelling 5-Test series, despite not always being on top form. I agree that England have a long way to go in learning how to play and cope with the different conditions on the Subcontinent, and have probably taken a backward step in that respect since Nasser's retirement, but to say England can't play away from home is stretching things somewhat! We're certainly better away from home than our nearest rivals for second place, India.

harvey
my good lad, seems you have spent too much time in India. The symptoms are obvious.

On a less serious note, England are by no means(ICC discounted) no.2 in the world. Sorry about that, i really am but life is stern and life is earnest

the reason england flop so much in odi cricket is because they dnt play odi cricket like it should be played,

if you go to any english club, they never encourage you to play agrresively.

Every english batsmen apart from pieterson, tresco and flintoff are players that play odi criket like test cricket, they are naturally slow batsmen.

why are pakistan such a good odi team? because most of its batsmen are naturally agressive and they play odi cricket the way it should be played!

So who are then? Pakistan will have a legitimate claim if they can win the forthcoming series against England. That's a very big 'if', though!

I think we can probably write off India for a while, because their board is currently obsessed with making as much money as possible, and in the process burning its players out with too much cricket. As if the FTP isn't demanding enough, the BCCI wants extra games on top of that! Injuries to key players, fatigue, and lack of intensity are inevitable.

I don't really see any other contenders.

to be honest, harvey, a few teams are worthy contenders with no outstanding one yet, no one can claim 2 without being ridiculed.

Sounded like an excuse to me. Your a bit early though, Pakistan haven't even arrived in England yet.

Enland say they have this great captain that knows how to get the best out of his players and is worth his place in the team as a captain alone. If Vaughan is such a good captain and such a smart captain then why has England only won 25 of the 48 matches he has captained. England are woeful in ODI cricket and Vaughan is part of the reason they are, his batting is poor and he seems to have no idea how to play one day cricket.

Woeful performace today. Absolute crap bowling.

same old england!

I don't where you looked but England already plays the fewest number of ODIs.....

# of ODIs played by each team since 1/1/2000;

dont worry, as soon as Vaughn returns all will be good, right Marooned?

I also remember a certain instrumental saying Jones was better than Kamran.

Well, he is

Ian Bell is definitely better than Inzi though

Mr big harvey are you english or a pakistani who is a england fan ? Anyways coming back to the topic, yes you are right england did well to draw the test series against india 1-1 despite injuries to many main players. However winning two macthes in your last 10 test matches is not worthy enough to give england a ranking of number 2. First of all i don't totally agree with the ranking system that the biased ICC run by white snobbish fat cats has in place. Secondly we pakistanis don't really stress out regards rankings cause this is subject to change.

Rankings is something you english and indians cry out about and it suits you two more. Real champions like pakistan the brazil of cricket care about winning and progressing along without worrying about number 2 or 3 positions. The only position we care about is number one understand big harvey ?

What upsets me and other ppers is that england is only concerned about is winning ashes, everything else is not important. There have been discussions on television and articles on net and newspapers regards to recovery from injury of simon jones, ashley giles, michael vaughan and flintoff before the next ashes series without mentioning the upcoming series against pakistan. Now is that ignorance or arrogance or pure bias or just plain stupidty ?

Come on big harvey tell us.

Found this article on cricinfo today.





England captain suffers further setback

Vaughan could face more surgery

Cricinfo staff

June 24, 2006



Michael Vaughan sits out the post-lunch session at Arundel © Paul Limmer Photography


Michael Vaughan is set to find out whether he needs more surgery on his injured knee on Monday after a meeting between England and Yorkshire physios. His condition appeared to worsen while he was playing in Yorkshire's innings and 25-run County Championship defeat away to Sussex at Arundel.

Vaughan has been ruled out of Yorkshire's C&G match against Worcestershire at New Road. He spent much of the match at Arundel in the dressing room while Yorkshire were fielding. And when he came out to bat Friday he could only manage four runs off four balls before being lbw to the Pakistan seamer Yasir Arafat.

"Michael's rehab programme seems to have suffered a setback and we will have to decide whether he needs a longer period of strengthening his knee or if some other course of action is required," the Yorkshire physio Scott McAllister told Saturday's edition of the Northern Echo newspaper. "A fourth operation on his knee is a possibility but at this stage nothing has been set in stone and the situation needs to be carefully assessed."

A fresh operation would sideline Vaughan from the remainder of the season with both Yorkshire and England. He has not played for England since the tour of Pakistan before Christmas due to a knee problem and only returned to cricket with Yorkshire a month ago.

During the Championship match Yorkshire's director of cricket, David Byas, had tried to play down the concerns. He said there was some inflammation but insisted that it was nothing serious. "We hope to get him on the field as soon as we can."



Vaughan stoops to field before going off © Paul Limmer Photography


Vaughan told The Times that he had considered going to America to see Dr Richard Steadman (the surgeon who is treating Simon Jones). "But it's a long way and there are surgeons as good here including one or two who taught Richard Steadman the techniques in the first place. I'm happy that I'm getting the best advice.

"I've been told there is a possible alteration that might deal with my problem but I want to see how I get through the two matches before we decide on the next step. I've built the muscles round the knee as much as I can." Vaughan's Yorkshire team-mates said that he seemed to have good days and bad days.

"There's no point Michael playing for England if he's not fit," David Graveney, the chairman of England's selectors told the Evening Standard after speaking to Vaughan. "The last thing he should feel is that there's any added pressure on him to come back because the team are not doing very well."

© Cricinfo

Hey big harvey see if you can digest this article. You still have'nt gotten back to me regards my previous comment. Looks like big harvey is no longer BIG after not being able to digest some of the comments other brothers and i made. Here check this article out.


England v Sri Lanka, 3rd ODI, Chester-le-Street

England run out of excuses

Will Luke

June 24, 2006



England were outplayed all day, as they have been all series © Getty Images



There is a saying teams use when they run out of excuses that "things can only get better". That was the feeling for England at Lord's for the first one-dayer against Sri Lanka, never mind for the second at The Oval. Today, after losing by the most comprehensive margin of eight wickets to emphatically lose the series, the blasé excuses of indifference to one-day cricket; to the lack of their big-guns and a regular captain no longer hold water. Forget building towards the 2007 World Cup; there are toddlers in nappies with a better chance of holding aloft the trophy for England, and they know it.

Bar another impressively mature display from Jamie Dalrymple with bat and ball, no other positive can be taken from England's woeful effort. Most worryingly, there are little signs of them learning from their frequent, basic mistakes. Never were Sri Lanka's batsmen made to work for the required 262 runs, or take undue risks to force the pace. The only risk-taking on show came from Andrew Strauss, in choosing who would bowl the next over. He might have brought himself on, such was the waywardness of Steve Harmison and co.

Not for years have England bowled this poorly, this weakly or shown such blatant incompetence to the shorter format. Indeed, Sajid Mahmood has surely been smashed out of the World Cup, and Liam Plunkett (whose batting potential gives him an extra tick in Duncan Fletcher's book) isn't too far behind. Sri Lanka, though, they have outplayed England with commanding batting throughout the series. The delicious feast on offer - would sir like a wide or five? - was a treat to watch, as Sri Lanka devoured each and every wayward bowler with righteous contempt. It was embarrassing.

Talking of which, it was only 12 months ago that England were shoulder-barging Bangladesh out of the way to give them an easy series-win in the two Tests. That victory, too, was decidedly embarrassing to behold but now, though, it is England on the receiving end. Unlike Bangladesh, there won't be any sympathy on offer. Wholesale changes might be expected, but quite who they should pick - this is a young second-string team, after all - is a conundrum for another day.



Mahela Jaywardene flayed England's attack to all parts during his magnificent 126 © Getty Images



To say Sri Lanka have outplayed their hosts does them an utter, outrageous disservice. Even at the toss today, which Sri Lanka lost, Mahela Jayawardene was grinning like a Cheshire, eager to bash the knife in and give it a series-winning twist. There was a diffidence and coyness to his demeanour at the start of the Test series, in which he stood next to, and was towered over by, Andrew Flintoff. In recent weeks, especially since their fabulous victory in the final Test at Trent Bridge, he has grown in stature immeasurably.

After restricting England, on a flat pitch, to 261, his wonderfully flowing 126 followed 66 at The Oval and 33 at Lord's. Not only has his captaincy been faultless on the field (as captaincy is inevitably described in the wake of a series-victory), but he has led with the bat with conviction. Yes, Sri Lanka has dominated this series, but his seventh one-day hundred spoke volumes of a man determined to take his side as far into the World Cup as possible. In fact, why not to the final and beyond?

Their path this year has been extraordinary. Never mind ridding themselves of the underdog label during this tour, they are a team transformed from the nightmare season in India and New Zealand, in which they lost nine out of ten one-dayers. They didn't fare much better in the VB Series against Australia and South Africa and, to compound matters, even faced the ignominy of losing to Bangladesh in February.

You sense a similarly dramatic turnaround is needed from England if they are to even dream of reaching the quarter-finals of the World Cup but, with so little time left until the Caribbean carnage gets underway, it could all be too late. Their smooth progression in the last three months not only signals a richness of talent and steely determination, but also of a side who thrive on triumph over adversity. England have been humbled, but don't expect them to be the last to be tripped up by Jayawardene's side.

Will Luke is editorial assistant of Cricinfo

Tell me when you have had enough of my toe crushing reverse swinging deliveries hurt you big harvey

The idea that the ICC is run exclusively by whites is simply laughable. The idea that it's run by snobbish fat cats might be a subject for debate though....





English fans are quite happy (for the time being) with number two, given that it wasn't so long ago that we were ranked below Zimbabwe. I'm sure there will be postings commenting on here about Pakistan's rise in the rankings after the WI v India series finishes? Unless India can win the series 2-0, (which is not going to happen now), Pakistan will go third in the ICC rankings. Even if India manage to win in Jamaica, Pakistan will be joint third with India, with the chance to go second if they can beat England.



As regards the media, the articles you speak of are written by the scummy journalists of the English media, unfortunately. Largely these are the same journalists who wrote about what an awful place Pakistan was, and how terrible being there was for them, without venturing outside their air-conditioned 5-star hotels.

I suppose many of us English fans have also been guilty of focusing on The Ashes. It's because of the issue of traditional England v Australia rivalry. The fact that Australia is ranked no. 1 in the world, compared with Pakistan's current no.4 ranking is significant, too. The still-fresh memories of the last Ashes series, which produced some truly great cricket can't be ignored, either.

I hope this attitude is not shared by the players, because if it is, we will not only lose, but fall below Pakistan in the rankings.

The fact is that the interest in the Pakistan series is high, certainly if advance ticket sales are anything to go by, and this will further increase once the football World Cup is over. I reckon that fifteen or twenty years ago, no day of a Test match in England involving Pakistan would have sold out at all, let alone months in advance as has been the case for most days of the forthcoming series.

Ouch! reminds me of being slightly beaten for pace in a pub team second XI game, and driving the ball so hard into my big toe that I was caught at cover. Worse still, during my first game back (minus big toenail), I was hit there by a yorker!

The articles you quote are about one day cricket, which as we all know, English fans don't really care about. Losing to SL is disappointing, of course, but when it comes to one day cricket we're used to disappointments. I am disappointed about it, yes, but if we lose the Test series to Pakistan, I really will be gutted. Even with injuries though, I still think we can beat Pakistan at home if we play well. It's likely to be tough, but we can do it.

Against Australia away? I definitely think we need our strongest line-up, or something very close to it firing on all cylinders to even stand a chance.

That's not being arrogant, it's being realistic.

Good point.

What you forget though is the reason why England plays fewer ODI's. It's because in knockout and triangular tournaments we always get knocked out in the first round. If we were good at one day cricket we'd be up there with Australia in terms of the number of ODI's played.

Brilliant post

As I mentioned earlier, eng/pak/sa/ind are all worthy contenders and anyof them claiming number two spot right now would be ridiculed

Do read the Darren Gough interview here

This part made me chuckle the most:


Someone should remind the old boy that England aren't the only nation playing ODIs.

What does everyone think of the current state of England ODI cricket.....they are staring at a potential 5-0 whitewash from Sri Lanka and news is coming through that Andrew Flintoff will not be ready for the first test against Pakistan, Vaughan will have a 4th operation and Giles is still in the USA sorting out his hips.

I realise that England are without their superstars......but, imagine if Pakistan had Inzamam, Shoaib, Afridi, Kaneria, Sami, Rana, Razzaq all out of the team through injuries how would we fare....do you think we would lose easily like England or do we have good strength in depth to cope with injuries.

Your wonderful thoughts on this topic please????

with no giles it doesn't make much of a difference. Vaughan is a bad odi player. To me by not having flintoff is making a HUGE difference. England need to find good onedays bowlers otherwise it would be tough to compete in WC.

In pakistan case, Kaneria is not in oneday team anyway. We hardly see shoaib fit.

Its only a matter of time England becomes a sucessful ODI side..with players like Tresco,Colingwood,KP and Flintoff I cant see them failing for too long..they will need a bit of variety in bowling though!

To be fair England have got injuries. They aren't as bad as they are showing at the moment. I admire the way they are trying new players. Pakistan dont seem to be experimenting as much. What i'd like to see is more experimentation.

They have won 4 out of their last 18 completed games.

Marooned, you're needed here

A better title would have been "England should start playing ODI cricket".