User Name Password
Go Back   PakPassion - Pakistan Cricket Forum > Sport > Cricket

Unlucky Pakistan refrain from complaints

.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 9th August 2006, 08:16
TaZ's Avatar
TaZ TaZ is offline
Senior International
 
Debut: Jan 2005
Runs: 3,698
Wickets: 236
Unlucky Pakistan refrain from complaints

03:00 09Aug2006 RTRS-Cricket-Unlucky Pakistan refrain from complaints

By Tony Lawrence
LEEDS, England, Aug 9 (Reuters) - Pakistan did not take the easy option after losing the third test and the four-match series against England at Headingley on Tuesday.
It would have been easy, understandable even, for them to leave the ground cursing the names of umpires Darrell Hair and Billy Doctrove. Perhaps they did but, if so, it was done in private and that was to their credit.
There is no doubt that the touring side, in losing by 167 runs after scoring 538 in their first innings at Headingley, did not get the rub of the green.
First they lost the toss, which never helps. Then they `dismissed' Kevin Pietersen for two in the first innings, a delivery from fast bowler Shahid Nazir clipping the edge of the bat as well as Pietersen's back leg on the way to the wicketkeeper, only for Hair to keep his finger down.
Pietersen went on to add 133 more runs before he was finally dismissed as the top-scorer in the home side's agenda-setting first innings of 515.
Doctrove proved as hesitant in the second innings when Andrew Strauss survived a huge appeal for lbw against leg spinner Danish Kaneria. The England captain had been on 29 at that stage. He continued all the way to 116, the highest second-innings score by any batsman on either side.
"If we had got him out, or caught Marcus Trescothick early on, and kept their stand down to 20 as we should have done, we might well have been chasing 180," conceded Pakistan coach Bob Woolmer. "Unfortunately it didn't happen that way."
There were a couple of other such decisions, against Alastair Cook in the first innings and Paul Collingwood in the second, which went against the visitors, although those proved far less costly. Almost as galling, they took two other wickets during the match off no-balls.

GRACIOUS WOOLMER
Woolmer remained steadfastly gracious in defeat.
"England played very well," he said. "They played better than us throughout the series, it's as simple as that. We made too many mistakes. We never quite got it together as a team."
And Woolmer was right. To an extent, you make your own luck. Pakistan failed to do that, just as they have done earlier in the series.
In the drawn first test they dropped half a dozen chances. At Headingley they dropped Pietersen, although he had got to three figures by then, and, much more pertinently, gave the out-of-form Trescothick two huge let-offs early in his second innings.
The result? He put on a decisive 158 for the first wicket with Strauss in a stand which went a long way to win the game.
Pakistan were also hamstrung by four run-outs.
"Run-outs have been a perennial problem for Pakistan," Woolmer added ruefully. "You don't need that in test cricket."
Mohammad Yousuf's departure for eight in the second innings, after he had made 192 in the first, was a pivotal moment. For Woolmer, indeed, it was the pivotal moment.
England, in contrast, played close to the top of their game. There was one expensive miss. Paul Collingwood, diving in the slips, dropped Yousuf when he was still in single figures on his first visit but, for the most part, they snaffled their chances with confidence.
Their fielding, which has not always been a strength, was of the highest calibre. Fittingly, it was Collingwood who ran out Yousuf on the final morning to set England on course for victory.
"Generally you don't get four run-outs in a test match but the great thing for us was that we had four opportunities and took them all, three of them with direct hits," he said.
"There's a lot of work on the practice ground that goes into that. We have been really targeting that aspect of our play over the last few weeks."
The point will not be lost on Woolmer.
It was the great South African golfer Gary Player who, when told that he was lucky, agreed while adding: "It's funny but the more I practise, the better I get."
Yousuf and Younis Khan have been Pakistan's leading lights in the series. Yousuf made a double century in the first test to keep his side afloat, while the pair teamed up at Headingley to put on 363 runs for the third wicket, a Pakistan record against England for any wicket.
Practice, it seems, tends to make the pair as close to perfect as you can get.
As Woolmer put it: "They're two of the best players I have worked with in my career. They're also probably two of the hardest-working players in the side. Which says something."
((Editing by John Mehaffey, London Sports Desk; Reuters messaging: john.mehaffey.reuters.com@reuters.net. +44 207 542 7933))
Keywords: SPORT CRICKET PAKISTAN

For Related News, Double Click on one of these codes:
[SPO] [UKI] [PSC] [RNP] [DNP] [PSP] [EMK] [GB] [PK] [WEU] [EUROPE] [ASIA] [CRIC] [LEN] [RTRS]
Wednesday, 09 August 2006 03:00:07RTRS [nL08894572] {EN**ENDS

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 9th August 2006, 08:31
Pakmuscle Pakmuscle is offline
Local Club Player
 
Debut: Jan 2006
Runs: 216
Wickets: 31
Even though Pakistan shouldnt blame the umpires for the loss, they should show that they are unhappy at some of the umpires decisions. This is the only way these two particular umpires would change their attitude towards the Pakistan team.

After a football match, managers such as Mourinho, Wenger, Freguson would always point out any injustices they receive in the match hence they get most decisions to go their way.

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 9th August 2006, 09:20
Amoeba's Avatar
Amoeba Amoeba is offline
International Captain
 
Debut: Jan 2005
Venue: Petri Dish
Runs: 4,570
Wickets: 21
Just shows that we are graceful losers that we have opposition reporters making excuses for us. Fletcher the moaning windbag should take note.

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 9th August 2006, 09:26
Whippy's Avatar
Whippy Whippy is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Jan 2006
Venue: UK
Runs: 5,729
Wickets: 88
The management and some of the players are gracious but many of the fans are very sore losers.

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 9th August 2006, 09:36
Amoeba's Avatar
Amoeba Amoeba is offline
International Captain
 
Debut: Jan 2005
Venue: Petri Dish
Runs: 4,570
Wickets: 21
I have never used umpiring as an excuse - have always blamed our catching. As a player you can only concentrate on those things that you can control.

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 9th August 2006, 09:41
Whippy's Avatar
Whippy Whippy is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Jan 2006
Venue: UK
Runs: 5,729
Wickets: 88
You are a good loser so no need to get defensive, but like I have said all along, no fans or team like to lose and when they do, people are not pleased and looks for reasons and excuses! The shoe is on the other foot now, after so much ripping on England and India for being sore losers, but the same excuses that the English and Indians used are coming out from Paks!

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 9th August 2006, 09:43
KB KB is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Jan 2001
Runs: 7,464
Wickets: 92
It is good thing that they have not used it as an excuse. To improve you have to be honest as a side. Pakistan were outplayed this series and need to address their weaknesses.

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 9th August 2006, 09:53
Pakmuscle Pakmuscle is offline
Local Club Player
 
Debut: Jan 2006
Runs: 216
Wickets: 31
By saying that the umpires made bad decisions does not mean Pakistan are making excuses about the loss. They lost because they played poor but the Pak management need to make a point about some of the injustices they have had in this series. Why is it that over the past years England, Aus do not suffer as much bad decisions as Pak do? Its because the umpires know they will come under a barrage of criticism if they make silly mistakes against these teams, whereas with Pakistan they know they will just accept it as being unlucky.

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 9th August 2006, 10:04
Amoeba's Avatar
Amoeba Amoeba is offline
International Captain
 
Debut: Jan 2005
Venue: Petri Dish
Runs: 4,570
Wickets: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whippy squash
You are a good loser so no need to get defensive, but like I have said all along, no fans or team like to lose and when they do, people are not pleased and looks for reasons and excuses! The shoe is on the other foot now, after so much ripping on England and India for being sore losers, but the same excuses that the English and Indians used are coming out from Paks!


I'm not getting defensive but maybe saying I'm not getting defensive means I'm getting defensive.

The point is that fans will always be fans and think the way fans do.
However the key is how the team reacts. To their credit they have never taken the easy way out, which I'm afraid other teams have been guilty of. As I have said many times players should only concentrate on those things under their control.

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 9th August 2006, 10:24
midwicket midwicket is offline
Local Club Star
 
Debut: Jan 2005
Venue: UK
Runs: 850
Wickets: 6
This graciousness is not practical. If you don't take these umpires to task it's asking for more of the same. Got to play the game with the ICC. Rope in India and Sri Lanka.

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 9th August 2006, 10:30
UJ UJ is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Nov 2005
Venue: A Cricket Ground
Runs: 6,803
Wickets: 36
If we start complaining then the team will think that the loss can be overlooked. That would be a mistake as there are many areas where we can improve. Bowling with the new ball and running between the wickets come to mind.

Lets use this series loss as a chance to address the areas which need attention, and become a stronger team

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 9th August 2006, 11:18
Rudi hater Rudi hater is offline
International Captain
 
Debut: Mar 2004
Venue: Peterborough
Runs: 4,503
Wickets: 168
Occupation: IT
Pakistan's own fault, there was a proposal to appeal to the third umpire if the bowling team thought that a player was out but not given by field umpires. Pakistan voted against the proposal openly and ICC failed to adopt it only by one vote.

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 9th August 2006, 11:36
cornered paktiger cornered paktiger is offline
Local Club Star
 
Debut: Oct 2005
Runs: 943
Wickets: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwicket
This graciousness is not practical. If you don't take these umpires to task it's asking for more of the same. Got to play the game with the ICC. Rope in India and Sri Lanka.



Agree totally. I do believe we were conned in Leeds. We also got a raw deal when we toured Australia. I do believe that subconciously England and Australia get the best of decisions as opposed to the Asian countries. Maybe its because they kick up a real stink if they're done over whereas the Asian countries (India less so these days) seem to accept it more.

The sooner technology is introduced, the better.

Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 9th August 2006, 15:20
KB KB is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Jan 2001
Runs: 7,464
Wickets: 92
The other thing you do have to mention is that players do not walk and they appeal when they know it is not out.

That being the case, they do have to accept the rough with the smooth.

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 9th August 2006, 15:48
azcali78's Avatar
azcali78 azcali78 is offline
Local Club Star
 
Debut: Mar 2005
Venue: Orange County, CA
Runs: 736
Wickets: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whippy squash
The management and some of the players are gracious but many of the fans are very sore losers.


So Whippy you don’t think England are sore losers? What about Mr. Duncan saying we lost in Pakistan because of Heat or we were not allowed to leave our 5 star hotel rooms, etc. All the English fans here will be complaining about umpiring if England has got that many bad decisions against them. I don't remember even call which England didn’t get in this game which they had appealed?

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 9th August 2006, 15:59
Uzzy's Avatar
Uzzy Uzzy is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Dec 2005
Venue: UK
Runs: 6,172
Wickets: 102
When the boot is on the other foot England would do and have done the same. When England did not win the series against SL recently they attributed this to the dropped catches in the first test rather than acknowledging SL played very well to draw it. Every man and their dog held this view. In this test we had some very crucial decisions go against us and some cheating antics but it is being brushed away as being sore losers. Double standards if i may say so.

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 9th August 2006, 18:25
Long_Live_Pakistan Long_Live_Pakistan is offline
Local Club Star
 
Debut: Aug 2005
Runs: 942
Wickets: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whippy squash
You are a good loser so no need to get defensive, but like I have said all along, no fans or team like to lose and when they do, people are not pleased and looks for reasons and excuses! The shoe is on the other foot now, after so much ripping on England and India for being sore losers, but the same excuses that the English and Indians used are coming out from Paks!




ur coach whims when you loose...he puts it on injuries, hotel conditions, tour conditions, weather, length of tour etc etc..

our coach didnt say any such word...it was simply a good win to england.....as simple as it is

as far as umpiring is concerned.....yes it was terrible....if have to get england middle order, twice on the first day..it makes Pak job very difficult, especially when they are not playing well already...

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10th August 2006, 02:57
waqar_ahmad waqar_ahmad is online now
International Star
 
Debut: Dec 2005
Runs: 9,738
Wickets: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudi hater
Pakistan's own fault, there was a proposal to appeal to the third umpire if the bowling team thought that a player was out but not given by field umpires. Pakistan voted against the proposal openly and ICC failed to adopt it only by one vote.


u r rite. in usual circumstances, i would be against the introduction of technology too. but so many decisions have gone against us in recent times that i think it was neccessary for pakistan to back this move.

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10th August 2006, 15:16
Whippy's Avatar
Whippy Whippy is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Jan 2006
Venue: UK
Runs: 5,729
Wickets: 88
Groan...about as predictable reponses as I could have expected. Pak fans are going on the defensive and just claiming England would do the same. I know they would, that is not the point!

The point is that everyone does it, so you lot should stop ripping on everyone else, when the same excuses as we have become accustomed to from all teams (except Pak) are now being churned out by the Paks! You see, when a team wins a few series on the trot like Pak have, you aren't losing so there is no need for excuses. As soon as the team loses a series like Pak have, everyone goes back to their old habits.

There wasnt any need for excuses from England for the best part of 04-05 seasons as they were winning, but the draw against SL and loss to Pak made the excuses appear again. It's a bitter cycle and you lot are clearly not exempt from it, despite the fact you have this idea that you are.

Last edited by Whippy squash : 10th August 2006 at 15:19.

Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10th August 2006, 16:58
TaZ's Avatar
TaZ TaZ is offline
Senior International
 
Debut: Jan 2005
Runs: 3,698
Wickets: 236
Whippers. Did your boys get any rough decisions in the series? I know Danish Kaneria knicked one on 20ish and went on to make 29 at headingly (first innings). That evens the massive Hair and Doctrove mistakes. Pietersen 1st innings (add 133 runs), strauss 2nd innings (add 87 runs) and that's just 2 of the many decisions. Cook first innings etc etc. Dropped catches are our fault, even injuries but it was 11 v 13 in this test

Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10th August 2006, 23:53
waqar_ahmad waqar_ahmad is online now
International Star
 
Debut: Dec 2005
Runs: 9,738
Wickets: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whippy squash
Groan...about as predictable reponses as I could have expected. Pak fans are going on the defensive and just claiming England would do the same. I know they would, that is not the point!

The point is that everyone does it, so you lot should stop ripping on everyone else, when the same excuses as we have become accustomed to from all teams (except Pak) are now being churned out by the Paks! You see, when a team wins a few series on the trot like Pak have, you aren't losing so there is no need for excuses. As soon as the team loses a series like Pak have, everyone goes back to their old habits.

There wasnt any need for excuses from England for the best part of 04-05 seasons as they were winning, but the draw against SL and loss to Pak made the excuses appear again. It's a bitter cycle and you lot are clearly not exempt from it, despite the fact you have this idea that you are.


i dotn even understand what u r trying to say here. u lost in pak, and ur coach made excuses that were nto even valid. we lost to u now, and our coach didnt make any excuses. do u disagree with any of that?

Reply With Quote
Reply

colspan="2">Thread Tools colspan="2">
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 18:54.



Powered by: vBulletin and VBAdvanced CMPS
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
PakPassion™ © copyright 2009 All Rights Reserved. Content on PakPassion™ requires permission for reprint.
One of the largest message boards on the web !