Is Hijab Required When Teaching 7-11 Year old Children?

i will say it is absoultely absurd!

Why do PPers read trash journalism like the Daily Mail?

Although in this case if it's true, she should have been sacked!

the daily mail is not exaclty a paper of choice, and i imagine the mail is activley seeking out examples of muslim stupidity like this one to report on

irrespective of it being the mail reporting it, the fact is that some muslims are determined to make rods for there own backs

If the story is true and she believes that veil is a requirement, still she needs to take another look at 24:31



024.031
YUSUFALI: And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.

Another example of Muslims gone mad. Niqab should be laughed at. This is not Islam, this is stupidity and Koran condemns stupidity:

No soul can believe except by God's will, and He brings disgrace on those who do not use their reason.
10:101 (Abdel Haleem's translation)

yeah we should lock her up...how dare she defend her right to wear what she wants..get ready for the ban of the headscarf and beard next...then theyll ban the Masjid..then halal food..oh well its just these dumb Muslims fault anyway!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/6046992.stm

yeah,its true..if she is trying to teach english or in fact any language..u need to see her mouth!


silly woman.

you're missing the point.

she is teaching a language..kids complained they couldn't understand her.

Young kids look at the mouth to understand..what about deaf kids who can only lip read !

There is fine line between right and wrong..the school didnt stop her wearing the veil out of class.
In this case she is well wrong.

I heard that she is taking her case to the human rights tribunal now because of discrimination....I do agree however, that she is clearly wrong in what she thinks is right - the right to wear the veil in front of class....I'm very disghusted as to the extent some people interpret aspects of Islam to their own convuluted belief systems...No wonder our reputation isn't very good these days, when the nutters are coming out the woodworks...

I had a teacher who was a niqabi; she would take the face covering off during class.

Did you even read what the issue was? Its hardly a case of discrimination, and is really her own fault.

Why lock her up? I would ask for deportation! That's rich talking about an extremist's 'human rights'. She is contracted to teach young children and if she does anything that stops her from completing her terms of contract 100% then she should not be in the job. A twisted interpretation should not give anybody right to religious practice. BTW dumb is a very soft way of describing some Muslims. No wonder Allah promised disgrace for those who don't use their reason.

there is no point in going over extremes at both ends. If she does not want to remove it, then's it her right. You cannot tell or force someone to wear they way you want.


However the school also have a right to sack her to maintain their guidelines of teaching school children.


This whole issue is about personal rights. Dress how you want. But people may not agree with it. And certainly some organisations would not. Respect the rights of the individual and the org and then it's plain sailing.

I would go one step further and ban the niqab from schools, nurseries and even hospitals.

These are places where vulnerable people dwell and if you have niqabi women working there then it becomes easy for any pervert or twisted individual to use the Niqab as a form of disguise and evade security camera's to kidnap children or vulnerbale adults.

I have full sympathy for anyone insisting that no niqab is worn within these establishments and if a woman feels she must wear a niqab then she shouldn't apply for such jobs. It should be made part of the job description that only people who are identifiable at all times can be employed.

With the sort of perverts and psycho's we have wondering the world, the last thing we need is to give them a ready made disguise with which to enter buildings housing vulnerable people.

And one another point, i cannot believe she is suing the school. All you need now is one of the usual incomptent judges to say 'yes' and we will have the usual orgy of hate from the tabloid press.


well done.get hammered on both ends

We are very good at it, aren't we. Ever wondered why Allah's message is so flexible? If we follow the flexible message in a rigid manner or over-exagerate Allah's commands then Allah has no mercy for the stupid and the irrational behaviour. Disgrace is what He has in store for the people who don't use their reason

The Niqab concept by default is for people who dont want to be in any place with strange men - why work in a mixed environment at all ?

why would a pervert need a disguise?? since most are unknown to the general public and the police until they commit a crime? take the incident where a child was abducted from her bath. Did that pervert need a disguise? no..my argument is simple..maybe she has gone to far, but that comes from a defensive attitude created by the current anti islamic nature of the discourse in the UK/west. Statements by Muslims claiming that the niqab is wrong and should be banned is music to the ears of those who want to continue to oppress us. It is a slippery slope. Maybe she has made a mistake here but in a democarcy it isnt against the law for her to do so.She is fully within her rights to dress however she wants. If the niqab is banned as many so called enlightened pseudo scholars on this forum are demanding where does it stop? the headscarf will naturally be next. Then what? salwar kameez? juba's? skull caps? long beards? trousers to your ankles? Masjids? Salat? the Quraan itself? I thought children learnt by listening too? and what of all those scholars over the centuries who learnt the Quraan from an aalima who sat behind a curtain? (Umm Hani of Egypt comes to mind)...no we must defend the right for Muslim women to wear the niqab anywhere whenver they want because if we dont, they will then know that we are not willing to defend other more important aspects of Islam...if the Niqab should be banned why not Mini skirts? or those horrible tight tshirts that metrosexuals wear? or what about gold chains that our youth love? maybe rings?...why not demand that also? maybe because you would be ridiculed to high Heaven for even thinking it. Yet it is ok to go after a right that a Muslim woman has. Why? By Law she is right..maybe she has made a misjudgement but the school has no right to demand what she wears and when she wears it....Rememebr Al-Andalus...we are not that far from what happened there after the fall of Granada!..

salaam

Not a valid argument. The question is not about freedom but her ability to teach the children.

For example, let's say you own a truck company. A woman wants to work for you, but she insists on wearing niqab. Would you let her, even though she has no peripheral vision?

why did she become a teacher in the first place then,

another weird story in todays world

Why did she work at a church?

To earn a living, perhaps?

this news piece was also a part of THE NEWS
one of the leading news papers of Pakstan

She can remove her veil in front of children, this is stupidity. The Prophet(pbuh)'s wives also left their faces open most of the time until they came across an adult non-mahram. Then they would draw the sides of their veils over their faces.

If something about you makes the performance of your job less effective, than the employer has a right to ask you to leave. This goes for disabled people, people with heavy accents..etc as well.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/6050392.stm


A Muslim support teacher suspended for wearing a veil in class says it was never a problem for her pupils.

Headfield Church of England Junior School, in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, said pupils found it hard to understand her during English language lessons.

But Aishah Azmi, 24, said: "They never complained." She added she was willing to take the veil off in class, but not in front of any male colleagues.

London Mayor Ken Livingstone said he would like Muslims to give up the veil.

But he suggested change was not something that could be imposed from outside the Muslim community.

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "Getting Muslim women to give up the veil - which I suspect is something most people would like to see in the long term, including myself - is not going to be done by old white male politicians telling them to do it.

"It will be change from within. That is why it's important we should engage with the progressive elements and leaders in the Muslim community."

Ms Azmi was suspended pending the outcome of an employment tribunal, which is due to announce its decision within the next two weeks.

Kirklees Council said she was asked to take off her veil in class and refused, but the action was "nothing to do with religion", only a practical matter about making herself understood.

But Ms Azmi told Today: "It hasn't caused a problem between myself and the children. They've never complained and we had a brilliant relationship."

She added: "To say the students have a problem with communication, that's not right."

Disputing the school's version of events, she insisted she had always been willing to take off her veil in front of the children but would not in front of male colleagues.

She had been instructed to take it off throughout the school day, she said.

"The veil is really important to all Muslim women who choose to wear it. Our religion compels us to wear it because it's in the Koran."

The school, which has 529 pupils aged seven to 11, takes many children from different ethnic backgrounds where English is not the first language.

The Leader of the Commons, Jack Straw, first raised the issue last week when he suggested the full veil over the face separated communities.

Following his comments, a protest is planned outside his morning surgery in Blackburn, Lancashire, on Saturday.

A survey in the Guardian newspaper suggests 53% of people support Mr Straw in thinking the veils create a barrier between Muslims and other people.

But three-quarters opposed a ban on veils being worn outside the home.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

interesting.

What gives you that idea?

You can never stop people that are bold enough to climb into people's house and take their children away. That's a completely irrelevant example.

The point is that perverts are usually caught because someone remembers seeing someone looking like the pervert leaving the scene or close to the scene. That person gives the police a description and they have a lead, also DNA evidence is vital too.

A person who is veiled, leaving a building with vulnerable people, can't be identified in the same way, also they can wear gloves and full commando gear under the jilbaab+veil to ensure they don't leave behind any dna evidence.



Who's oppressing you?

Are we being refused to build mosques in this country like non-Muslims are refused to build their places of worship in some Muslim countries?

Are we being refused to congregate in public or read Salah in Jamah in the open like non-Muslims are in refused to worship openly in some Muslim countries?

Are we being forced to pay a special tax just for being Muslim as non-Muslims are in some Muslim countries?

Are our women forced to dress in a lewd manner the way non-Muslim women are forced to dress in a conservative manner in Muslim countries?

Do we face the death penalty when we proclaim Islam greater than Chritianity and propogate it the way non-Muslims do in some Muslim countries?

In what way are you being opressed?

Stop playing the victim, Muslims enjoy more freedoms in Britain than we do in many Muslim countries.

Learn to appreciate the good rather than playing the victim all the time.

Try speaking the way you do about this country and it's government in some Muslim countries against their governments and we'll see how long it is before you find yourself behind bars or on death row!!

I'd like to see the Ayah that tells her to cover her face!

yesterday on our local tv news "calendar" we heard a story of a chemist refusng to prescribe a morning after pill to a lady because of his religious beleifs

the programme only made a brief mention of the the chemists faith, but i knew it would be a muslim before they said it was!

anyway it transpires that phrmacists are allowed, under there own code of ethics, to refuse to prescribe particular drugs if they are in contravention of there religous beliefs, however this rarely happens!

in this case the phrmacist referred the lady to another local practice

we had the woman in question interviewed who again didn't mention muslims by name but did say other people didn't have the right to force there faith down peoples throats

to me it is yet another case of a muslim happilly making a rod for his or her own back

i wonder where the chemist draws the line and is it his business to cast moral judgements ?

you have to wonder why she is saying one thing and doing another!

why on earth did she have it on in front of junior school kids in the first place?

Would a non-Muslim be allowed to act like this ina Muslim country? No way!!

I revoke my earlier statement.
The above stance is fair enough and she is right.

"The veil is really important to all Muslim women who choose to wear it. Our religion compels us to wear it because it's in the Koran."

The above is a lie against the Koran and Allah. I have seen a Somali guy swearing in front of non-Muslims that Koran instructs us to cut off the genitalia of our women. Oh Allah, save Islam from Muslims!

thanks for all your support guys..hope you love the new atmosphere in the good old UK:

Attacks on Muslims rise after veils row
By Jason Bennetto, Ian Herbert and Jeremy Clarke
Published: 14 October 2006

Islamophobic attacks have surged in the past month in the wake of controversial remarks by ministers about British Muslims, say campaign groups.

The rise in verbal and physical assaults includes a spate of incidents in which Muslim women have been abused for wearing veils and scarves. They come in the week that the issue was raised by Jack Straw, the Leader of the Commons.

Muslim groups blame part of the rise in incidents, which also include assaults, firebombings and racist e-mails, on comments made by politicians and negative media reporting.

At least six Muslim women have been abused for wearing scarves or veils after Mr Straw said last week that he asks Muslim women who visit his constituency surgeries in Blackburn to remove their veil.

In one incident a Muslim woman aged in her 20s had her hijab or headscarf pulled off her head and thrown to the ground by a young white man while she was at Canning Town Tube station in east London. The attack happened on the same day that a Muslim woman had the veil torn from her face by a white man who uttered racial abuse as she waited at a bus- stop in Liverpool's Toxteth district. Both incidents occurred last Friday - the day after Mr Straw described the veil as, "a visible statement of separation".

There were also reports that a young Muslim girl wearing a veil in Mr Straw's Blackburn constituency was confronted by three youths last Friday night. One allegedly threw a newspaper at her and shouted: "Jack has told you to take off your veil."

Three days later, a 21-year-old Turkish student told Muslim News that she was standing outside a supermarket in Canterbury, Kent, wearing a hijab when she was verbally abused by a middle-aged white woman. The older woman told her she hated her being in Britain and wanted her to leave.

On the same day in Hackney, east London, a black Muslim woman wearing a veil was getting off a bus when a passenger shouted out: "Why don't you show your, lovely hair?"

The sixth incident involved a Muslim woman wearing a hijab, who reported that when she got on to the London Underground two men standing next to her deliberately started discussing their support for a ban on veils.

Even before Mr Straw's remarks police had been receiving complaints of abuse towards Muslim women wearing veils. Police officers in Gloucestershire have investigated two allegations of verbal abuse against veiled Muslim women by white men. No arrests were made.

The British National Party has also sought to exploit the issue and has sent out anti-Islam leaflets that include a photograph of a veiled Muslim woman.

Azad Ali, the chairman of the Muslim Safety Forum, said: "Since the political party conference started we have noticed a rise in Islamophobic attacks. This time last year we did not have so many incidents.

"The [Muslim] community feels that there is always something negative in the news about Muslims.

"What the Government is doing is pushing away the people they need to engage with. We feel very alienated by comments from people such as John Reid. Similar things have come from the Conservative camp."

The Muslim Safety Forum, the Muslim Council of Britain and the London Muslim Centre, based in Whitechapel, east London, have all reported abusive racial e-mails since the veil issue was raised.

Other pronouncements on ethnicity issues have been followed by instances of racial abuse. Two days after the Home Secretary, John Reid, declared at the Labour Party conference that extremist Muslim "bullies" must be faced down, the Jamia Masjid mosque in Preston came under attack from a gang of white and black youths, who threw bricks at cars while 100 Muslims, attending mosque for Ramadan, worshipped inside. The following day Falkirk's Islamic centre was set on fire, causing £10,000 damage.

Within 24 hours of that incident, a dairy owned by a Muslim family in Windsor also came under siege. Groups of up to 30 people attacked the Medina Dairy, which has also allegedly been fire bombed. Eight people have been arrested

As Windsor's racial unrest subsided last Thursday, the story of the Muslim police officer Alexander Omar Basha being excused from duty outside the Israeli embassy also began precipitating racial unrest, according to some Muslim community leaders.

On Saturday a British Asian, as yet unnamed, was left critically ill in hospital following a suspected racist attack outside a supermarket in the Netherhall area of Leicester. A second Asian man was also seriously injured. Leicestershire police believe an altercation took place between the two Asian men, who are friends, and a group of white youths.

A Teesside family were also targeted at the weekend after vandals daubed graffiti on their home. The Joacph family were forced to cut short a holiday when neighbours alerted them to the attack on their home in Saltersgill, Middlesbrough. Slogans, including the words "kill Muslims" and "terrorists live here" were painted on walls and doors. Police have condemned the attack on the Joacphs, who say they are practising Roman Catholics.

Race incidents

* Racist incidents that took place following Jack Straw's comments

Friday 6 October: Muslim woman had her hijab, or headscarf, pulled off and thrown on the floor by a white man in east London.

Friday 6 October: Muslim woman had her veil snatched from her face in Liverpool.

Friday 6 October: Muslim girl wearing a veil in Mr Straw's Blackburn constituency was verbally abused by three youths.

Saturday 7 October: Two Asian men were attacked by racists in Leicester, one critically injured.

Sunday 8 October: Racist graffiti was daubed on a house on Teesside.

Monday 9 October: A 21-year-old Turkish woman wearing a hijab was verbally abused by a white woman in Canterbury, Kent.

Monday 9 October. A black Muslim woman wearing a veil was verbally abused in Hackney, east London.

* Racist e-mails to Muslim groups include:

"All Muslim women should be forced to cover their faces - they are the ugliest ******** in the world."

"Whatever you think you are, you are not welcome in our country any more."

"I think ugly Muslims should wear the veil and the good ones should not."

Islamophobic attacks have surged in the past month in the wake of controversial remarks by ministers about British Muslims, say campaign groups.

The rise in verbal and physical assaults includes a spate of incidents in which Muslim women have been abused for wearing veils and scarves. They come in the week that the issue was raised by Jack Straw, the Leader of the Commons.

Muslim groups blame part of the rise in incidents, which also include assaults, firebombings and racist e-mails, on comments made by politicians and negative media reporting.

At least six Muslim women have been abused for wearing scarves or veils after Mr Straw said last week that he asks Muslim women who visit his constituency surgeries in Blackburn to remove their veil.

In one incident a Muslim woman aged in her 20s had her hijab or headscarf pulled off her head and thrown to the ground by a young white man while she was at Canning Town Tube station in east London. The attack happened on the same day that a Muslim woman had the veil torn from her face by a white man who uttered racial abuse as she waited at a bus- stop in Liverpool's Toxteth district. Both incidents occurred last Friday - the day after Mr Straw described the veil as, "a visible statement of separation".

There were also reports that a young Muslim girl wearing a veil in Mr Straw's Blackburn constituency was confronted by three youths last Friday night. One allegedly threw a newspaper at her and shouted: "Jack has told you to take off your veil."

Three days later, a 21-year-old Turkish student told Muslim News that she was standing outside a supermarket in Canterbury, Kent, wearing a hijab when she was verbally abused by a middle-aged white woman. The older woman told her she hated her being in Britain and wanted her to leave.

On the same day in Hackney, east London, a black Muslim woman wearing a veil was getting off a bus when a passenger shouted out: "Why don't you show your, lovely hair?"

The sixth incident involved a Muslim woman wearing a hijab, who reported that when she got on to the London Underground two men standing next to her deliberately started discussing their support for a ban on veils.

Even before Mr Straw's remarks police had been receiving complaints of abuse towards Muslim women wearing veils. Police officers in Gloucestershire have investigated two allegations of verbal abuse against veiled Muslim women by white men. No arrests were made.

The British National Party has also sought to exploit the issue and has sent out anti-Islam leaflets that include a photograph of a veiled Muslim woman.

Azad Ali, the chairman of the Muslim Safety Forum, said: "Since the political party conference started we have noticed a rise in Islamophobic attacks. This time last year we did not have so many incidents.

"The [Muslim] community feels that there is always something negative in the news about Muslims.

"What the Government is doing is pushing away the people they need to engage with. We feel very alienated by comments from people such as John Reid. Similar things have come from the Conservative camp."

The Muslim Safety Forum, the Muslim Council of Britain and the London Muslim Centre, based in Whitechapel, east London, have all reported abusive racial e-mails since the veil issue was raised.

Other pronouncements on ethnicity issues have been followed by instances of racial abuse. Two days after the Home Secretary, John Reid, declared at the Labour Party conference that extremist Muslim "bullies" must be faced down, the Jamia Masjid mosque in Preston came under attack from a gang of white and black youths, who threw bricks at cars while 100 Muslims, attending mosque for Ramadan, worshipped inside. The following day Falkirk's Islamic centre was set on fire, causing £10,000 damage.

Within 24 hours of that incident, a dairy owned by a Muslim family in Windsor also came under siege. Groups of up to 30 people attacked the Medina Dairy, which has also allegedly been fire bombed. Eight people have been arrested

As Windsor's racial unrest subsided last Thursday, the story of the Muslim police officer Alexander Omar Basha being excused from duty outside the Israeli embassy also began precipitating racial unrest, according to some Muslim community leaders.

On Saturday a British Asian, as yet unnamed, was left critically ill in hospital following a suspected racist attack outside a supermarket in the Netherhall area of Leicester. A second Asian man was also seriously injured. Leicestershire police believe an altercation took place between the two Asian men, who are friends, and a group of white youths.

A Teesside family were also targeted at the weekend after vandals daubed graffiti on their home. The Joacph family were forced to cut short a holiday when neighbours alerted them to the attack on their home in Saltersgill, Middlesbrough. Slogans, including the words "kill Muslims" and "terrorists live here" were painted on walls and doors. Police have condemned the attack on the Joacphs, who say they are practising Roman Catholics.

Race incidents

* Racist incidents that took place following Jack Straw's comments

Friday 6 October: Muslim woman had her hijab, or headscarf, pulled off and thrown on the floor by a white man in east London.

Friday 6 October: Muslim woman had her veil snatched from her face in Liverpool.

Friday 6 October: Muslim girl wearing a veil in Mr Straw's Blackburn constituency was verbally abused by three youths.

Saturday 7 October: Two Asian men were attacked by racists in Leicester, one critically injured.

Sunday 8 October: Racist graffiti was daubed on a house on Teesside.

Monday 9 October: A 21-year-old Turkish woman wearing a hijab was verbally abused by a white woman in Canterbury, Kent.

Monday 9 October. A black Muslim woman wearing a veil was verbally abused in Hackney, east London.

* Racist e-mails to Muslim groups include:

"All Muslim women should be forced to cover their faces - they are the ugliest ******** in the world."

"Whatever you think you are, you are not welcome in our country any more."

"I think ugly Muslims should wear the veil and the good ones should not."

your argument is pure conjecture and fantasy..there has never been an incident where a peaodophile or rapist has ever used the niqab to disguise himself..its absolutley ludicrous and a complete fallacy..what next? ban the headscarf because women may hide guns inside them?? it so dissappointing to hear our own Muslim people in times of strife siding against the sisters who everyday have to put up with rascism, and islamaphobia..now our great armchair gurus wanna ban em from practicing their religion how they want to..what is the difference between you and the Taliban then?? stop sitting on your most high pedestal and come down a bit and understand what is happeing in this society..playing the victim kay abba...of course we're the God damned victims..I dont see sikhs getting harrassed in the media for wearing a turban or not cutting their hair?? why doesnt that bother you?? anyway what the hell is your malfunction? everyday theres a topic on this forum by you and your fellow acolytes attacking Islam or the Hijab or the Niqab? this is a time where we should be showing solidarity with our sisters even if we dont agree with the niqab because of the bigger picture..yet we are unable to even defend them by words how would you like it if your sister was attacked on the street for wearing a hijab??




her ability has not been compromised..this issue would not have arisen if jack hadnt made his comments...women have been teaching with a barrier between them and their pupils for centuries...if the children can hear her voice they will be able to learn..it wasnt a problem until jack waded in...and to answer your question about a woman and truck driver well if she has proven she can drive with it on and has passsed her truck drivers test and the instructor has no problem with it then i wont..there are plenty of women who wear niqabs who are driving instructors..shall we ban them too?? this is discrimination pure and simple..

anway back to maulana merc:



done it plenty of times without being arrested..whats your point? there are good governments and bad..try speaking about Islam,jihad and Niqab and talking about the palestinians and iraq in the middle of the subway and im sure youll get a nice response sooner or later...

you speak about the oppression by muslim countrys yet you yourself are advocating the banning of the niqab..whats the difference between you and some rightwing mullah in saudi then?? he wants to impose the niqab while you want to ban it..two sides of the same coin...

Khan saab cha gaye app.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/ne...429_16x9_bb.ram

Her interview (realplayer)

sorry, i wouldn't like her teaching me...

she didn't wear a veil to the interview....took 40 secs to answer that question.

I just saw the interview and have to say I'm pretty disappointed....She's just blowing this completely out of proportion.....I can't even understand what she's saying half of the time....Pretty hypocritical as well, looks like she got got caught without a veil so to speak.....

Last night they had a debate on Sky about the Cross affair in BA and the Niqab/Hjab issue - there was a Muslim lady who was introduced as some person representing the "Assembly for the protection of Hijab" !!

What in the blazes is an "assembly" !! do we have one for Muslim kids on drugs or involved in blowing up themselves as well ?

No wonder the image of the Muslims is in taters these days, when you have morons misrepresenting Islam....Seriously, it really makes my blood boil when I hear and read stories like these.....I am beginning to understand now why some non-Muslims think the way they do about Muslims, because there are no moderate Muslims standing up and having an intelligent discussion in projecting Islam as a faith of intellect/reason....Instead you have pseudo mullahs and ignorant Muslims who come on to represent their distorted view of Islam to the larger public...

probably something to enhance the CV.

but what a name "Assembly" !! Sounds like a term from mechanical engineering !

Sorry for the ignorance, but what happens when a woman wearing a veil has to take a passport or drivers license photo? Are they allowed to have a photo but just not be "physically" seen by men?

Thats a good question and one for the Niqabites to think about. The laws of the land that Muslims live in must be obeyed and therefore, they have no choice but to expose their face and their hair as well.

Chances are that license or passport isnt seen by the whole world - so I suppose, its not a big issue.

There has been a reported incident of a fugitive hiding inside a jilbaab and veil to avoid detection. Just wait till such an incident does happen, you think you're a victim now



Again you're blowing things out of proportion, I'm not siding with anybody. My views on Niqab were the same long before Jack Straw and his cronies waded in!! Why should I change my views just because they happen to agree with somone like Straw who will probably change his stance next week? If Straw becomes a Muslim tomorrow (I believe his son is a revert/convert) then should I change my religion because he now follows Islam?



How many Sikhs have exploded 4 bombs in London? How many Sikhs have tried to blow up 4 more? How many Sikhs do you see quoting hatred, death and destruction for Britain through quotes from their 'religion' on the streets? God gave you aql perhaps you should use it sometimes. This victim mentality is nauseating.



If you read what I said carefully. Then you would realise that I said whilst I don't agree with the Niqab personally, I think they should be allowed to wear it where reasonable. In my view that doesn't include places with vulnerable people where clear identification of everyone coming and going is a necessity. That's what you call a reasoned opinion, try getting some.



I saw her on the news speaking from behind her veil and I could barely understand a word she was saying. She had a very thick accent and the cloth over her lips was fumbling her words. The argument about the curtain is completely irrelevant here. Speaking from behind a curtain doesn't curtail your speech and allows free movement of the lips without the sound having to travel through an immediate physical barrier just after leaving the lips. You can clearly hear someone who is behind a barrier or whom you can't see because there is nothing obstructing their lips. However when you place a cloth over your mouth, your words don't come out as clearly. That's the whole point of gagging someone!



Post 7/7 and with the sort of negative publicity we engender for ourselves by destroying our own cities in 'protests' against events in the other half of the world, what do you expect? Besides which public protest against the building of a mosque by chav yobbos doesn't come under the same area as a government ban!! Surely you comprehend that?



In all honesty, I'm surprised the Niqab was allowed in the first place. Had it been roles reversed then Muslim countries would never have allowed a tradition like that to be brought over. Lucky it's a tradition from Muslim countries then!



Again you fail to grasp the point. As a citizen of this state we do not pay any tax that a native citizen doesn't have to pay!



I'm beginning to see a pattern here. No wonder you play the victim so well. No-one is jailed for quoting the Quran alone, its the words that they choose to speak alongside the quotes which put them in jail.

In this thread you're playing the victim and shooting down Jack Straw for expressing the opinion that veils shouldnt be warn but at the same time you're defending the sort of people who incite Muslims to violence against non-Muslims!

It's the very people you are defending whom generate the negative publicity which creates fear and hatred of Islam and results in racist abuse and attacks on men with beards and women in Hijabs! Why can't you see that??



I'm not talking about cowering in a back room with a couple of like-minded friends whispering treason. Try holding a public protest in Saudi against the government there then write me a letter from jail.



Again at no point have I said that I would favour a blanket ban on niqab. I said that i wasn't in favour of niqab (that's a big difference) but that I had no problem with women wearing it as long as it wasn't in places that house vulnerable people and where clear identification is a necessity.



That's all you have isn't it? Emotive arguments but no substance?

Let me make one thing crystal clear, the biggest danger in this country to (all my) sisters isn't the likes of Jack Straw! It's the 'victim mentality' of people like yourself and others.

This same girl who created a nationwide fuss about her right to wear the veil, deceived the interviewers for the job by turning up to the interview (which was with a man) without her veil. She obviously knew that she wouldn't get the job if they knew that she wore a veil, she even declined to give them that information. What message does that send out to people who support Jack Straw? It tells them that the girl is only after publicity and wants to play the victim, it gives them the impression that the veil is just an excuse to complain and not a requirement. It's women like this who put our sisters in danger.

Another example is of that girl from a Luton school who wanted to wear a jilbaab in school instead of her uniform! At first I felt some sympathy towards her but then I saw her on the news strutting around in a jilbaab so tight that it left nothing to the imagination. She lives in Luton so she had the choice to go to an all-girls school if she wished but she went to a mixed school instead!! It's girls like this who put our sisters in danger.

Think before you post and reason your argument in your head before typing it out and stop playing the victim whilst simultaneously supporting those who are the root cause of the discrimination against Muslims in the UK today!!

i honestly thought she had a speech impediment, it was impossible to make out some of her words

good god - how can that woman be involved in the education of children

forget the veil she is thick as proverbial...

was she of Pakistani origin?

well in Pakistan you will hardly see a veil let alone in the class

the school she worked at it is saville town area of dewsbury

saville town is the uk markaz of tablighi jamaat

the last white people left saville town many years ago

it is nowadays predominantly a gujrati muslim area but there is a fair number of mirpurias living there too

if i was a betting man i would guess she was of gujrati origins but she could just as easily be a mirpurian

After reading the above, I simply refused to answer this message. Who are we? A bunch of wild-eyed fanactics? The woman is, plain and simply wrong. Pathetic to defend her and to invoke 'ghairat' in an affair of this kind. Who do you think we are? Hutus? This kind of mentality brought about 7/7. Accept the fact: Muslims can be wrong. Live with it or die!

I also have a problem with veiled women driving.

so do the saud

Thats probably why they aren't allowed to drive.


The wahhabist/salafist regime needs reforming..trouble is state sponsored scholars are religious heads of the country.

*Waits for Judean People's Front to turn up*

Or is it the People's Front of Judea?

Great Khan, can you comment on this?

Jews are the AIDS of the world