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  #1  
Old 29th March 2007, 10:26
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Kashif Kashif is offline
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Woolmer talked of total dominance of seniors in last e-mail

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=48847

Woolmer talked of total dominance of seniors in last e-mail

By Abdul Mohi Shah

ISLAMABAD: The late coach of the Pakistan cricket team Bob Woolmer had blamed total dominance of the senior players in a system where youngsters feel neglected and pressurised, as the main factor of the team’s poor show.
In his last communication with the chairman of the Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) Dr Nasim Ashraf, Woolmer highlighted three factors and said unless and until the board works on eradicating these, it would be difficult for Pakistan to match the best teams in the world.

“Hierarchy system in the Pakistan team where youngsters are pressurised and seniors command all the respect is a big hurdle in getting the best out of the young players” was mentioned as one of reasons in his last e-mail addressed to the chairman.

Woolmer said junior players always feel pressurised and neglected. “As a few senior players totally dominate, it becomes increasingly difficult for the juniors to give their best. These juniors play under pressure,” Woolmer said.

The PCB chairman who appeared before the Senate Committee on Sports on Tuesday highlighted these points. “He (Woolmer) had mentioned remedial measures for the uplift of the game in Pakistan and said that the system should be adopted where youngsters could be able to perform to the best of their abilities,” he said.

The late coach also mentioned the poor education level of players as a reason of Pakistan’s defeat and poor showing internationally. “Most of the players have got a poor education level and that also is a big hurdle in their mental grooming. They do not comprehend things easily and have no vision to look forward,” he said.

Woolmer also raised a question mark over players’ commitment to fitness and their professional approach in everything they do.

“A more professional approach is required from players especially when it comes to maintaining fitness. Pakistan players do not devote much time to fitness. They also lack professional approach in everything they do,” Woolmer said.

Woolmer also apologised for not being able to guide Pakistan to World Cup success.

Dr Nasim Ashraf said Woolmer was a true supporter of Pakistan cricket and did his best to make a difference. “We lost a family member and we want to get into the roots of what had happened to him. We have asked all possible help and support to the Jamaican authorities in digging out the truth,” he said.

To a question raised by Senator Enver Baig, the PCB chairman said the Pakistan team was questioned like every other individual that stayed in the team hotel.

“DNA tests on West Indies captain Brian Lara and coach Clive Lloyd were also conducted by the Jamaican authorities as both were staying at the same hotel,” he said.

Dr Nasim Ashraf promised the Senate committee to make all the assistance available to a team member or members who would be recalled for questioning. “If the Jamaican authorities decide to recall any member of the Pakistan team, he would be accompanied by a PCB lawyer.”

The PCB chief said irrespective of his staying as the chairman of the PCB, he would attend the final rituals of Woolmer in South Africa. “We are in constant touch with his family as Woolmer was a very important member of the team.”



So who are these seniors? Inzi, Yousaf, Younis, Razzaq, Afridi?

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  #2  
Old 29th March 2007, 10:33
Asim2Good Asim2Good is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kashif
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=48847
So who are these seniors? Inzi, Yousaf, Younis, Razzaq, Afridi?


and Shoaib Akhtar as well ? shoul Malik been considered senior too ? I think he should b being member TJ group

what are "source" of their report? Naseem Ashraf held a press conference and told abt last e-mail ?

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  #3  
Old 29th March 2007, 10:37
Invictus Invictus is offline
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“A more professional approach is required from players especially when it comes to maintaining fitness. Pakistan players do not devote much time to fitness. They also lack professional approach in everything they do,”

This is the crux of the matter. PCP/Players/Officials do not deal with cricket as a whole professionally. Head of the PCB is not a professional, selectors are not paid and hence not professional selelctors, coaching was hugely un-professional upto a few years ago, ground staff at most stadiums is not professional. Its run like a family business or a part-time job by almost everyone.

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  #4  
Old 29th March 2007, 10:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Invictus
“They also lack professional approach in everything they do,”


This about sums up Pakistan cricket and why we can never be considered a consistent dominant force.

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  #5  
Old 29th March 2007, 11:03
Truthteller Truthteller is offline
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What a brilliant insight and analysis into what stops Pakistan from being a top consistently performing side.

He was operating in a system the likes of which he had never met before, got to understand it and do the best it allowed him to do. He has also shown the changes in the culture of professional cricket that need to take place. Here is an insight from a man who had extensively coached different sides 'looking in' to Pakistan's cricket with a sympathetic 'foreign' eye. It's a great tragedy for Pakistan cricket that he died, whether as coach or advisor he would have been invaluable to it.

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  #6  
Old 29th March 2007, 11:22
CricketBuff CricketBuff is offline
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Its more like a cultural thing, like respecting elders and making the senior most player the Captain. He is like a father figure for the yougsters. Totally wrong. And yes the seniors have a union where they do not let the younger players into the side.

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  #7  
Old 29th March 2007, 11:26
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Munda Pakistani Munda Pakistani is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kashif
This about sums up Pakistan cricket and why we can never be considered a consistent dominant force.


The first five words of your post are sufficient.

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  #8  
Old 29th March 2007, 11:31
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Explains why Bob couldnt alter fielding/opening situation etc.

Great coach - given blunt tools.

Surprised he didnt quit - but probably thought he could take on the challenge.

Who would want the job knowing this stuff goes on in our set up?

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  #9  
Old 29th March 2007, 11:32
Asim2Good Asim2Good is offline
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a Pakistani coach is in line for job

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  #10  
Old 29th March 2007, 15:17
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salman24 salman24 is offline
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Well thats always been a problem. Nothing new but I guess its not really a good enough excuse for losing

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  #11  
Old 29th March 2007, 15:31
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suhaib suhaib is offline
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bob was just wasted because of inzi.
we didnt deserve a coach like him.

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  #12  
Old 29th March 2007, 15:37
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I am worried about his education comment. I understand what he says but knowing PCB they will take it to the extreme. Its unfortunatne that already in our set up you have to know an higher up or be rich just to get noticed or play on our national team. We do not need a second barrier of you being educated. Not every cricketer is well educated, IE Tendulkar completed high school and that is that.

I agree that our players shoudl take some sort of class or sit down with a psychriatist and draw out a plan and long term goals. I feel you accomplish more when you sit down and write out your goals.

I just do not want to make education another barrier for the poor to play.

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  #13  
Old 29th March 2007, 15:51
mooz mooz is offline
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So would it be fair to say that BW thought Inzi lost us the WC?
Just like Bari.

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  #14  
Old 29th March 2007, 16:31
12thMan 12thMan is online now
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the power play, egos, unprofessionalism etc have been going for for a long time. nothing new to Pakistan or cricket. Even DNA has played his part in promoting it by reinstating YK as the captain instead of penalizing him after his "dummy captain" stint

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  #15  
Old 29th March 2007, 16:34
SUPERSAMI SUPERSAMI is offline
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Drop anyone over 27 from the ODI team (including Afridi Razzaq) and go with the youth movement, other than that I don't see many solutions.

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  #16  
Old 29th March 2007, 16:50
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Do you think they should privatize Cricket?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Invictus
“A more professional approach is required from players especially when it comes to maintaining fitness. Pakistan players do not devote much time to fitness. They also lack professional approach in everything they do,”

This is the crux of the matter. PCP/Players/Officials do not deal with cricket as a whole professionally. Head of the PCB is not a professional, selectors are not paid and hence not professional selelctors, coaching was hugely un-professional upto a few years ago, ground staff at most stadiums is not professional. Its run like a family business or a part-time job by almost everyone.

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  #17  
Old 29th March 2007, 16:52
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I hope they don't make Younis Khan the Captain, I will be very disappointed. May just stop watching cricket.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 12thMan
the power play, egos, unprofessionalism etc have been going for for a long time. nothing new to Pakistan or cricket. Even DNA has played his part in promoting it by reinstating YK as the captain instead of penalizing him after his "dummy captain" stint

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  #18  
Old 29th March 2007, 16:54
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SameerM SameerM is offline
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I dont think AGE is a problem IF they are still skillful

Its when, being the oldest means your RIGHT all time and being young means ur inexperienced and wrong.

Its like the mentality behind the no 3 slot.. some say it should be a slogger.. some say it should be a technical batsman.. its each to their own dont mean their wrong or right, but rather for that situation it was the wrong or right decision.

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  #19  
Old 29th March 2007, 16:54
12thMan 12thMan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karachi
Do you think they should privatize Cricket?

then would it be a Pakistan team or Rafan Milk Pak X1? and if they fail should anyone care as it is the company that failed

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  #20  
Old 29th March 2007, 16:59
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CaN I ask what was BObs job then, if Inzi did every thing what was he getting paid for if even there fitness levels were not up to a good level after 3 years .
he did dnot strategise, pick teams, train them then what did he do

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  #21  
Old 29th March 2007, 17:13
Nauman Nauman is offline
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So Inzi isn't as much of a binding factor as Monsee and co. thought he was, he was pretty much ruling the team by the stick along with his buddies at the top.

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  #22  
Old 29th March 2007, 17:22
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Privatizing Part of Domestic Cricket
I mean part of the domestic cricket should not be under PCB. I would divided it by groups or clubs and each club is responsible for their players, preparation of pitches, Player Salary, Medical, coaching, Training, fitness, Marketing the Sports, etc.



PCB should be responsible for National Squad and training and coaching the U-19, U-15.

PCB Focus:
  • Removing politics and favoritism from the cricket on both domestic and National team.
  • Special Committee should look over preparation of Pitches in Pakistan.
  • Cricket coaches on both school and college level need coaching manuals and utilizing new technology and techniques, new developed computer software to train younger players.
  • Batting /bowling Coach for U-19 and U-15 teams
  • We need both batting and bowling academy
  • Selection for A-team and National squad should be based on merit (performance consistently, for batsman good batting techniques is important)
  • Paid Selectors (either ex-player or foreign players)
  • National Coach: Ex-player or Foreign Coach.
  • Batting/Bowling Coach





Quote:
rinciples and practice of pitch preparation

Produced under the auspices of the United Cricket Board of South Africa
Prepared by NM Tainton, JR Klug, D Edmondson & RK Campbell (University of Natal) and P W van Deventer & M J de Beer (Potchefstroom University).

Foreword

It is a fundamental principle that you cannot play good cricket on poor wickets. The United Cricket Board of South Africa has decided that it should play a leading role in upgrading the knowledge available to groundsmen for the preparation of turf wickets throughout South Africa.

To this end it has been most fortunate to secure the services of a team comprising members from the Universities of Natal and Potchefstroom to help it with this substantial and important task.

The publication of this book on the preparation and construction of turf pitches is a very welcome step in the process and the United Cricket Board is most grateful for the high quality work and energy that these universities have put into both the preparation of this book and the assistance that they have given those groundsmen responsible for preparing cricket pitches in South Africa.

We want this book to be regarded as a living document so that future editions will incorporate the increased experience and knowledge currently being generated, as well as the results of the research programme to which the United Cricket Board has committed itself.

We are very grateful to Professor Neil Tainton and his team from Natal University, and Piet van Deventer of Potchefstroom University for their great efforts in making this publication possible.

R C WHITE
Vice President: United Cricket Board of South Africa

Last edited by Karachi : 29th March 2007 at 17:33.

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  #23  
Old 29th March 2007, 17:36
skr30 skr30 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooz
So would it be fair to say that BW thought Inzi lost us the WC?
Just like Bari.


Well Inzi sure didn't help the cause.

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  #24  
Old 30th March 2007, 00:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kashif
"They also lack professional approach in everything they do,” Woolmer said.

Woolmer also apologised for not being able to guide Pakistan to World Cup success.



Theres another one word that we often use to call our senior's "Bhai" - that slowly develops the ego of many senior players. It's a cultural problem. Look at it this way, Do any of people living in western countries use the "sir Jii"? Only Queen gives that status to someone whos done exceptional work.

Do you think Ricky Ponting is called "Ricky bhai from Micheal Clarke or Mat Hayden bhai or Gren Mcgreth Bhai to Shaun Tait?"

Respect senior should lay inside the junior player. What they both should realise they're both at same level.

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  #25  
Old 30th March 2007, 00:14
12thMan 12thMan is online now
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this is how we have worked for many years and not limited to this team

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  #26  
Old 30th March 2007, 00:27
Amir Amir is online now
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What if Pakistan suceeded? What if Inzi had won that WC trophy? Then what? Would people come out with all these statements?

As much as I feel sorry and loved Woolmer, fact is why didn't people liek him, Shaharyar Khan, amongst many others ever say anything? Espicially SK considering he was the damn chairman!!!! Are you the man in charge or just some guy taking paycheques? Easy to blame Inzi and do not get me wrong, I think Inzi is at fault for this. But rather than wait for failure...why don't you prevent it before it happens and speak up?

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  #27  
Old 30th March 2007, 01:44
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Oxy Oxy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamranz
Theres another one word that we often use to call our senior's "Bhai" - that slowly develops the ego of many senior players. It's a cultural problem. Look at it this way, Do any of people living in western countries use the "sir Jii"? Only Queen gives that status to someone whos done exceptional work.

Do you think Ricky Ponting is called "Ricky bhai from Micheal Clarke or Mat Hayden bhai or Gren Mcgreth Bhai to Shaun Tait?"

Respect senior should lay inside the junior player. What they both should realise they're both at same level.
I was going to create a thread on this last summer.

All you ever hear is players like Kamran Akmal screaming 'Inzi bhai', or 'Yousuf bhai' when the opposing batsman go for a quick run - Our youngsters have to go through the formality of adding 'bhai' after the name - when in fact 'Inzi' is all that is required.

Even when I played in a Pak team in our local league- we were expected to say 'Riaz bhai'or 'Badar bhai' each time.

I hated saying it - I mean its a quick game and I didnt have time for all these pleasantries/formalities on the pitch.

We need to do away with all of this - but it wont.

I believe this 'bhai syndrome' costs us vital seconds in the field with players WAITING for their full titles to be screamed out before they react!

Last edited by Oxy : 30th March 2007 at 01:46.

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  #28  
Old 30th March 2007, 01:47
Amir Amir is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxy
I was going to create a thread on this last summer.

All you ever hear is players like Kamran Akmal screaming 'Inzi bhai', or 'Yousuf bhai' when the opposing batsman go for a quick run - Our youngsters have to go through the formality of adding 'bhai' after the name - when in fact 'Inzi' is all that is required.

Even when I played in a Pak team in our local league- we were expected to say 'Riaz bhai'or 'Badar bhai' each time.

I hated saying it - I mean its a quick game and I didnt have time for all these pleasantries/formalities on the pitch.

We need to do away with all of this - but it wont.

I believe this 'bhai syndrome' costs us vital seconds in the field with players WAITING for their full titles to be screamed out before they react!


I seriously hope that was a joke. It is out of respect, I am sure the person doesn't wait for your whole title or name to be pronouced. The minute he hears Inz....he is off...how many other people in the team start with such a title? Inzakthar? Inzaneria? Inzsaf?

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  #29  
Old 30th March 2007, 03:49
Asim2Good Asim2Good is offline
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funny thing Dravid been blamed (a bit ) same way as Inzi been blamed
coz before WC started, there was news that Dravid fought hard for Veeru place and AFTER WC, that sms of Chappel that he didn't got team he wanted. so some Indian reporters are saying "Dravid was the one who called all shorts"

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  #30  
Old 30th March 2007, 05:20
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khilari khilari is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxy
I was going to create a thread on this last summer.

All you ever hear is players like Kamran Akmal screaming 'Inzi bhai', or 'Yousuf bhai' when the opposing batsman go for a quick run - Our youngsters have to go through the formality of adding 'bhai' after the name - when in fact 'Inzi' is all that is required.

Even when I played in a Pak team in our local league- we were expected to say 'Riaz bhai'or 'Badar bhai' each time.

I hated saying it - I mean its a quick game and I didnt have time for all these pleasantries/formalities on the pitch.

We need to do away with all of this - but it wont.

I believe this 'bhai syndrome' costs us vital seconds in the field with players WAITING for their full titles to be screamed out before they react!


totally disagree... bhai syndrome is the last thing to blame. i've been saying ever since i have been playing in big league and have never felt obliged to... its just a natural thing to say in respect.... If you had to say it against your will, then you guys had bigger problems

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  #31  
Old 30th March 2007, 07:34
Invictus Invictus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karachi
Do you think they should privatize Cricket?


Privatization is not the answer to anything. A private entity exists to make money for its stake holders. Their man job is to make money. Cricket Adminnistration should not exists to make money. It should exists to promote cricket in a given country and make sure we have good team to reperesent us.
The approach to the game needs to be changed. They administration need to be professionals getting paid for the job they do. The selectors, the coaches, the leagues everything should be set up in a professional manner with paid staff. Players should be promoted based on merit, professionlism and consistancy. Good results should be rewarded and so forth.

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  #32  
Old 30th March 2007, 19:05
Nakhuda Nakhuda is offline
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This isn't just a cricketing matter but the general attitude of millions of Pakistanis also resembles what Woolmer is saying!.I am sure many here like i have also heard millions of times of how people in our culture expect to be respected due to being older!.To hell with what kind of a person you are as long as "i was born before you" respect should be unconditional.I've always struggled to understand the logic behind this!

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  #33  
Old 30th March 2007, 19:52
Usman Usman is offline
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I'm not necessarily for this idea that because the seniors dominate, the younger players feel uncomfortable. The reason being is that if you go back to the time of England's tour to Pakistan, the very fact that we had so called "bhi" and fatherly figures in the squad was being used to back up the reasons for our victory. I remember clearly when everybody was saying that because of Inzi's senior status, he commands respect and makes the young players feel comfortable and that is why we did well.

Now that we have lost, the opposite argument is being used to say that the seniority of some players lost us games as younger players feel left out. One thing is for sure, both scenarios can not be true.

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  #34  
Old 30th March 2007, 20:41
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If ever I've read a couple of paragraphs that sum up the major flaws currently in Pakistani cricket, these are them. Absolutely spot on and these should form the basis of what the PCB should look into improving :-

“Hierarchy system in the Pakistan team where youngsters are pressurised and seniors command all the respect is a big hurdle in getting the best out of the young players” was mentioned as one of reasons in his last e-mail addressed to the chairman.

Woolmer said junior players always feel pressurised and neglected. “As a few senior players totally dominate, it becomes increasingly difficult for the juniors to give their best. These juniors play under pressure,” Woolmer said.

The late coach also mentioned the poor education level of players as a reason of Pakistan’s defeat and poor showing internationally. “Most of the players have got a poor education level and that also is a big hurdle in their mental grooming. They do not comprehend things easily and have no vision to look forward,” he said.

Woolmer also raised a question mark over players’ commitment to fitness and their professional approach in everything they do.

“A more professional approach is required from players especially when it comes to maintaining fitness. Pakistan players do not devote much time to fitness. They also lack professional approach in everything they do,” Woolmer said.

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