Role of the State in our Iman

Lately, I've been reading on PP and hearing from many other people as well that the current government has brought about a lot of negative change in Pakistani society. A lot of things have become the norm which werent before and they have a bad infulence on the general public. Everyone seems to be blaming the government for the unIslamisization of Pakistani society.

My question is, does the state (govt) really have that much of an influence on our Iman and our actions as Muslims and our status of an Islamic society? Sure the government may allow the opening of a few bars, and nightclubs but at the end of the day, doesn't it depend on the individual to choose the right path using the brain the God gave him/her?

We blame the govt as though suddenly, their allowing the influx of western and indian culture will decrease our Iman, but does it really matter? I mean many of us live IN the west with outright peer pressure to drink and engage in other haram activities, but a lot of us have maintained an applaudingly high level of Iman in ourselves. We are Muslims though and through.

So why do we blame the government so much? I mean if the shopkeepers can defy the govt's increase in tax by shutting down their shops (strike) then cant the general awam also boycott the nightclubs etc?

Thoughts?

Thats exactly the problem I have with society in general. We are slowly but surely moving away from the age old, tried and tested working formula of individual responsibility.
No one wants to be held accountable for their actions. Hey there was a bar so I drank not my fault. It is your fault bud thats the choice you made.

the thing is that are people themselves are corrupt and ere corrupt, meaning that their iman was weak in the past and has been weak. the difference between now and the past is that now they have the outlets, like the imoral movies and media/ drinking, while in the past they didnt have that , so they had no choice but to control themselves. if the governments of the past would have done wat the current government is doing now, the pakistani people would have done it then as well.

we blame the government because we dont want to make it our own business, and dont want to blame it that it is us and not the government which is at fault.

i think the problem that is causing all this too much control on our lives by our parents and we r restricted completely. we cant do wat we want. though the control is good as in Islam we have t control ourselves -- self control is the key to success, but we pakistanis r just darn too weak. u can say that we pakistanis are a really bad candidate to be a muslim, because we do not have the qualities of being a muslim at all. we do not know how to control ourselves.

The muslim state itself is bound by islamic rules and responsibilities. Other than protection and justice the state is also in charge of morality and therefore it should enforce laws which are within islamic principles and disallow all activity which fall out thereof.

A bar or a night club opening in Pakistan will affect my personal Iman in no way at all but it will surely attract a lot of people. Not everyone's iman is as strong as everyone else's therefore the state has a responsibility to help the individuals by prohibiting anything which may attract them towards obscenity.

It is like a toilet cleaner making sure the floor isn't wet because even though a person is well capable of stepping over a puddle someone is bound to slip up due to carelessness.

Fact is the state controls Pakistani lives since its birth.....what is happening now is what happened in the 50s, 60s and 70s...until Zia and sharia was slowly introduced...but that was due to influence the political landscape at the time against the countries enemies...

Wazeeri its not a question of just a night club opening in Pakistan. There have been night clubs in Pakistan since the 70's. The question is should the state have a role in modeling my religious behaviour?? Because if you let the state decide that then you are giving them way more control over your life without realizing it. It takes away from individual responsibility.

I live in Canada and live withing the boundaries laid out by Islam. Same thng goes for Pakistan, everyone should know thier responsibitlies as a Muslims and even if there is a night club etc in Pakistan, don't go as you should know your responsibilites etc. I will not let Canada or Western Society spoil and the same rule applies whether I am Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. I control my life not the state.

Invictus
As you as an individual have a religious responsibility, so does the state which governs you. Using the nightclub as an example again. I think it is reasonable to conclude that a nightclub will attract some people towards lewdness and obscenity. You as an individual have no power to stop the nightclub even though you know it is hurting the society, unless you want to get violent and hurt people in the process. This is where the State comes in.
As well as providing protection for a person’s life and wealth, the state has a responsibility to provide protection for their Iman. This doesn’t necessarily mean that the moral police picks up a baton and beats the culprits to death everytime something questionable comes along, the state has a responsibility to set up an education system which will teach people Islamic morals to help them avoid the lure of vulgarity at the same time as banning all sources of immorality

I heard u can't have beard in Egypt, is that true ?

Dont think this is the case. My dad was recently on an assignment there for a year and he never mentioned it. Although in Turkey, MPs cant grow them

met a guy another in mosque from Egypt, even though we can't understand much (as he spoke in arabic) but he liked my freind's beard and mentioned that u ll be caught in Egypt if u have beard.
but some guys of Tableeghi Jamat come to our local mosque from Egypt, they had beards. Our Imam also went to Egypt without any problem (may b he was on special visit). Egyptian guy said Imam in mosques also don't have beard there

I agree with you to an extent. If the state is run by resposible people with an ounce of decency and intellegence then yeah I would have no problem letting them protect my Imam. But you know thats not what happens in Pakistan. Its the moral police on the streets with the batons in hand every single time.
The government should educate its people as you pointed out. Set up a system with teaches morality, civic resposibility and Islamic values to its next generation.
I personally think that they should have a standard education system across the board teaching Islamiat as a specialised subject from grade 9 onwards just like Bio, Chem etc. Then after grade 12 you should be able to go to an Islamic Uni just like an Engineering/Medical University. This was we would produce Islamic scholars with real education and credentials instead of lot we got now.

I think all IMAMs should be protected, not just yours.

Thanks for mentioning the above two.They are the [B]responsibilities of state whereas the imposition of morality is within the power of an state first and then (and hence) its responsibility. We are very interested in power aspect of things and nobody wants to talk about responsibilities. Is anybody bothered that there is no respect for human life and dignity in Pakistan. Everybody is worried about nightclubs etc. because the power to implement morality is an immense power. It puts the whole (I'll use the word again) 'lynch mob' on your side. Nobody is bothered about the state failing on the two basic grounds: protection of life and assurance of justice. Everybody wants to be a policeman because that's where power lies. Thanks for mentioning the two basic responsibilities of a state Wazeeri, they don't get mentioned these days.

Ofocurse bahi, what I meant to imply was that unless I trust someone to do it for me its my own personal responsibility to protect my Iman.

Do you think he meant imaN? misspelled i think?

I know he did.
joke attempted and failed