User Name Password
Go Back   PakPassion - Pakistan Cricket Forum > Sport > Cricket

It's Time To Say Goodbye to Shoaib Akhtar

.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 24th May 2007, 00:19
Sheikh Sheikh is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Oct 2005
Venue: Karachi
Runs: 8,078
Wickets: 151
It's Time To Say Goodbye to Shoaib Akhtar

A good friend of mine posted this piece on his blog and with his permission I'm sharing it with you guys. I think its a fabulous article and I hope you guys enjoy it and the debate continues. So thanks Ahsan and may I keep pilfering your posts in the future!





Friday, May 18, 2007

It's Time To Say Goodbye To Shoaib Akhtar

Tap, tap. Your bat rests just behind your right foot, between middle and leg. You squint your eyes. He begins his run, from what you convince yourself must surely be at least a hundred meters. Tap, tap. You tell yourself to loosen your grip; the tension is making you hold your bat too hard. Tap, tap. He's closer now, about ten steps behind the umpire. His eyes are focused, his hair streaming behind him. Just before your bat taps the ground for the last time, you remind yourself: Keep the backlift low. Don't get stuck on the crease. Leave on length, not line. Tap, tap. Your bat lifts. His right arm goes behind his shoulder. The slingshot, the one that reminds some of Waqar and some of Jeff Thomson, is ready. So are you. Back and across. It's full. You get your left leg out of the way. Bring your bat down.

Too late.

You don't want to look behind you; it's too much carnage to bear. You don't want to look up either; it's too much joy to bear. You keep your head down and slink off. Make yourself feel better. You remind yourself: I'm not the first, and I damn sure won't be the last. As the incoming batsman walks by, you want to warm him about what's coming but don't want to discourage him. You search for the correct advice to give. All you find yourself saying is: Keep the backlift low. Don't get stuck on the crease. Leave on length, not line.
__________________________________________________ ___________________________


Over the last decade, Shoaib Akhtar has provided more exhilarating moments on the field than any other cricketer. It's not even close. Since I started watching the sport around the 1992, no one, I mean no one, has possessed the capabilitity of sheer destruction that he has. Quicker than Ambrose, more bounce than Waqar, more accurate than Lee, and more menacing than Donald. Whenever I break away into fantasy-land and imagine I'm an international cricketer, I always snap back to reality with the following thought: "Yeah, but guys like Shoaib would **** me up." Can you think of a more intimidating force with the ball in hand than Shoaib Akhtar? Don't shake your head, it was a rhetorical question. No one with even a cursory interest in the game will ever forget his spell against Australia at Colombo when he got Ponting, both Waughs, Gilchrist and Warne in fifteen balls (all bowled or LBW), or the Dravid-Tendulkar double at Calcutta, or the Fleming or Giles yorkers, or the bouncer that hit Lara, or the multiple decimations against New Zealand.

Shoaib's immense talents are exactly why it hurts me to say that he is bad for Pakistan cricket, and that he should no longer have a future in the international game. I say this because the endless drama of whether or not he will play series X against team Y, and the endless questioning of his attitude and commitment to the team, have a seriously deleterious effect on our team, and the benefits of having him around no longer outweigh the costs.

Before I go on, I should say I don't hope to convince anyone to change their position on Shoaib. Actually, let me rephrase that. I don't anticipate that I will convince anyone to change their position on Shoaib. He elicits such passions, and is such a divisive character, that neither people who love him and think he's Pakistan's greatest asset after the Indus River, nor people who think he's a cancer and should not just be thrown out of the team, but also of the country, will ever be persuaded they're wrong. Stopping your love affair with Shoaib is like quitting smoking: no one can do it for you, the feeling has to come from within. I can speak to the matter because I've done both.

First, let's deal with his injuries. When you google "shoaib akhtar injured" you get more results than you do if you google "kargil bad idea," "wasim akram great," "islamabad uk student visa," and "nusrat fateh ali khan fat". I would venture to suggest Shoaib could have made more money being a consultant to/walking advertisement for sports medicine than he has playing cricket. According to this timeline, Shoaib suffered a rib injury, as well as a side strain, as well as shoulder, knee and ankle injuries in 2000. That's five serious injuries in one calendar year. The next year, he played one ODI against New Zealand and broke down with a hamstring injury nine balls into the next one. He missed most of the England tour that summer because of what the story calls "injury and poor health". In 2002, he had a knee injury just before the test series against South Africa, a few weeks before the World Cup. In the winter of 2003-04, he missed the first test against New Zealand because of calf and groin injuries. At the beginning of 2004, he injured his back against India. At the end of 2004, he injured his shoulder against Australia. A few weeks later, at the beginning of the 2005 ODI triangular series in Australia, he pulled up lame because of a hamstring problem. He missed most of Pakistan's cricket that year, including tours to India and the West Indies, until he returned against England, a seris during which he injured his ankle which was aggravated in the 2006 series against India.

I think it's safe to say Shoaib gets injured a lot. What's almost as damaging as the frequency of his injuries is the severity of them. You never hear of Shoaib missing two weeks because of a broken pinkie or something. With him, it's always a three-, four- or sometimes nine-month break from the game. With such long hiatuses, it becomes difficult for him to keep himself in tip-top condition, which adversely affects his chances of staying fit when he finally does recover from the injury, and the cycle repeats itself. Though I could have done the following calculation for all the years Shoaib has been an international cricketer, I did so only for 2006 because of a lack of time. What I did was relatively simple. I counted the number of days Pakistan played an international game, including tests, ODIs and 20-20 games. If a test ended in four days, I counted it as just four days, not the whole five. I then found the number of days Shoaib was present on the field. What did I find? In 2006, Pakistan played cricket on 79 days. Shoaib played 23. For those who don't have a calculator handy, that works out to a smooth 29%. Twenty nine percent! If cricket was school, and Shoaib was a student, he would have been expelled for attendance by now.

What about his attitude/commitment? I'm afraid to say this might be an even more inexorable problem than his fitness, or lack thereof. At least with his injuries, you can argue (though you'd have to be one of stupid or blind to) that if he just gets himself fit, works out, takes care of himself, eats right, watches his body, and listens to doctors and nutrionists, that he can turn the corner. But personalities are more etched in stone that physical condition. Simply put, if Shoaib hasn't changed by now, he isn't about to any time soon. Or ever.

One of the things that really riles me up is when Shoaib's defenders straw-man the argument that Shoaib lacks commitment. "It's none of your business what he does in his private time," they say indignantly. "If he wants to party and sleep with every woman he can get his hands on, he should be allowed to." To that I say: no ****. No one, least of all me, is concerned with what this man does off the field. He can try to work himself in the playboy hall of fame for all I care. (One quick aside: someone who I know very, very, very well once saw him at a New Year's party in Karachi about five years ago. Wasim was also in attendance, though they didn't necessarily hang around. My informant told me that while Wasim had a constant stream of people walking up, both men and women, to talk to him, Shoaib was by and large by himself the whole night sipping his scotch. Some playboy, eh?)

No, what really bothers me is not that Shoaib likes drinking and ******, but that Shoaib is not a team-man (except for an ever so brief period between October 2005 and March 2006). His problems with Inzi and Woolmer are well-documented. Of all the incidents that took place in that relationship, the one that bothered me most was when Shoaib came out right before the World Cup saying he's going to pull out because Woolmer and Inzi offended his honour, that they've ruined his career, blah blah blah. This was after he had shoved Woolmer in South Africa; the arrow of disrespect actually pointed the other way. Furthermore, he never felt any compunction at throwing in the towel in lost causes (remember our last Australia tour?). He questioned the talent of others in the team when he felt like he was fighting a lone battle, something bowlers with twice his talent and similarly abject backups (Murali, for one) never did. He lied about injuries. And the list goes on and on.

I remember the exact moment when my distaste for Shoaib crystallized. The moment best exemplified the two concerns outlined above - his lack of fitness and his lack of commitment. It was some time in December, a few weeks after he'd been cleared of the nandrolone charge. I went to the National Stadium to watch a 20-20 game to see Shoaib live. I was sitting about as far as you possibly could from the action, and even from that distance I could tell the following two things. One, Shoaib was huffing and puffing, and was having trouble finishing his quota in a friggin' 20-20 game. Two, Shoaib was fat. Not oh-he's-put-on-a-few-pounds or hmm-he-looks-different. No, he looked fat. F-A-T. I remember asking myself: even if he was banned, why didn't he try to keep himself fit? As a professional athelete, shouldn't you be in the gym five days a week regardless of circumstances? And then I remember admonishing myself, for being so stupid as to think Shoaib was committed to keeping himself fit. For him, it was all about the glitz and the glamour, the 35 yard run-up, the headlines, the women, the middle stump knocked 25 feet behind the crease. It was never about the nut and bolts of being a fast bowler, of working hard in the off-season, of being an athelete the way Imran was, of constantly looking to improve. He compared himself to a Ferrari and a 747 jet without realizing how much work went into creating and maintaining those machines.

Throughout Shoaib's career, Pakistan has not been able to rely on him, for whatever reason. No one can ever be sure that he will play in any given game. If he does play in a game, no can ever be sure that he'll make it through. I've lost count of the number of times Shoaib has pulled up in the middle of a game. The last time pretty much summed up his career: taking four cheap wickets in the first innings, he helped skittle out South Africa for a low total. He, of course, got injured half way through, and forced Pakistan to go the rest of the way with three bowlers. Pakistan's two most prized assets - Asif and Dani - the guys who should be wrapped in cotton wool, bowled ninety overs between them in the second innings. Ninety! The point is, this was a situation that was (a) all too reminiscent and (b) all too preditable. Shoaib, once again, had proved himself unreliable.

It is because of this unreliability that we need to cut the cord. We cannot be held hostage by this endless drama of whether or not he'll be fit, whether or not he's carrying an injury and lying about it, whether or not he's 100% behind the captain and coach, and whether or not he woke up on the right side of bed any particular morning. Don't forget all the **** we have to put with because of his problems with drugs, ball-tampering and chucking (anybody who watched the South Africa series and did not conclude he's chucking is blind). All this is simply not worth it, not for someone who plays 29% of our cricket. We should thank him for his services, wish him the best and give him the nickname of Godot.

One last point: in the hysteria over our World Cup exit and the tough loss in South Africa, people are forgetting we have in our ranks, in my opinion, the best quick bowler in the world (Asif), another who's among the world's six or seven best (Gul) and a quality leg-spinner. Our bowling lineup, in other words, is fine. We should preferably find a young quick bowler from our domestic scene to be the third seamer. Failing that, we should stick with the Rana-Shahid Nazir-Najaf-Rao gang in the hopes that one of them puts their hand up in the next six months and really cements a spot. But make no mistake: Shoaib is not irreplaceable. Hell, we play more than two-thirds of our cricket without him anyway, so how much will we really miss him? I submit: not much. Now is a good time too, what with a new captain, a new coach and, I presume, a new slate.

Come on, Pakistan, throw away those Bensons. It's time to move on.

Posted by Ahsan at 1:09 AM 4 comments Links to this post

Labels: Cricket

Last edited by Oxy : 24th May 2007 at 00:24.

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 24th May 2007, 00:54
sohaib17 sohaib17 is offline
County Captain
 
Debut: Jan 2007
Venue: Canada
Runs: 2,235
Wickets: 392
FIRST OF ALL YOUR ARTICLE IS WAY TO LONG AND I DIDN'T EVEN read it

com on guy

he isn't that bad guy some players like Inzi had problems with shoaib and i am pretty sure he is a very good guy

ppl around the world are jelous of him cause he is a great talent not from thier country

he is a team player but a different character and i always felt that he gives his 100 percent but the problem is with his body not with his attitude

guys he is a match winner for us and still players like ponting LARA hayden are still scared of his pace saw him knocking down Lara in CT 2004 and hayden have been his bunny in last tour of Australia


so we should support him and all our match winners and be proud of them what they have done to make the country proud broken many records shoaib akhtar...

he can play for us another 2 yrs and believe me or not when we play harder teams like AUSSIES and PROTEAS we will need him


so plz try to understand what he goes through

what you can do is watch his interview on Bolein kya baat hai its in the cricket clip section and i am pretty sure you will change your saying after watching it

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 24th May 2007, 01:09
WasimG's Avatar
WasimG WasimG is offline
County Captain
 
Debut: Feb 2005
Venue: Houston, TX
Runs: 2,079
Wickets: 66
Occupation: PakPassion Spammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by sohaib17
FIRST OF ALL YOUR ARTICLE IS WAY TO LONG AND I DIDN'T EVEN read it

Watch out, last time I said that my comment was deleted. Better state how you enjoyed your last 2 hours reading all that.

Read first few paras and was an interesting read. Nothing's interesting after 3rd para to me. Except for big colored pictures maybe.

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 24th May 2007, 01:13
sohaib17 sohaib17 is offline
County Captain
 
Debut: Jan 2007
Venue: Canada
Runs: 2,235
Wickets: 392
i meant that why you guys want shoaib akhtar out he is our great assets and when players like Inzi and wasim and etc were caught in match fixing and other scandals why you guys want him out

i am now tired of telling you guys that some times truth is not what you see

LOOK at SACHIN TENDULKAR he's been in poor form with lots of injury and even in WC he played badly and he is still playing for India .......i imagine if shoaib was playing in world cup so u guys would be making thousands of threads that what he did in WC bl;ah blah blah

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 24th May 2007, 01:17
SUPERSAMI SUPERSAMI is offline
International Debutant
 
Debut: Nov 2005
Runs: 2,868
Wickets: 14
Occupation: Sponge
PCB went through a lot of heartache clearing AKhtar, it would be really retarded not to try and get something out him now.

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 24th May 2007, 01:26
kashif77's Avatar
kashif77 kashif77 is offline
World Class Player
 
Debut: Jan 2005
Venue: NYC
Runs: 15,181
Wickets: 479
mods can we have a separate shoaib akhtar forum please to place all these threads in ?

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 24th May 2007, 01:27
Sheikh Sheikh is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Oct 2005
Venue: Karachi
Runs: 8,078
Wickets: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by sohaib17
FIRST OF ALL YOUR ARTICLE IS WAY TO LONG AND I DIDN'T EVEN read it

com on guy

he isn't that bad guy some players like Inzi had problems with shoaib and i am pretty sure he is a very good guy

ppl around the world are jelous of him cause he is a great talent not from thier country

he is a team player but a different character and i always felt that he gives his 100 percent but the problem is with his body not with his attitude

guys he is a match winner for us and still players like ponting LARA hayden are still scared of his pace saw him knocking down Lara in CT 2004 and hayden have been his bunny in last tour of Australia


so we should support him and all our match winners and be proud of them what they have done to make the country proud broken many records shoaib akhtar...

he can play for us another 2 yrs and believe me or not when we play harder teams like AUSSIES and PROTEAS we will need him


so plz try to understand what he goes through

what you can do is watch his interview on Bolein kya baat hai its in the cricket clip section and i am pretty sure you will change your saying after watching it

Come on dude, read the post at least. Then state how you feel.

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 24th May 2007, 01:36
Bobaran's Avatar
Bobaran Bobaran is offline
Local Club Star
 
Debut: May 2007
Runs: 739
Wickets: 2
"he can play for us another 2 yrs and believe me or not when we play harder teams like AUSSIES and PROTEAS we will need him "

I think he can play longer. He should play until the end of the next world cup.

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 24th May 2007, 01:39
sohaib17 sohaib17 is offline
County Captain
 
Debut: Jan 2007
Venue: Canada
Runs: 2,235
Wickets: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheikh
Come on dude, read the post at least. Then state how you feel.



no its not worth reading and there are like 100 of thousands of threads on this and i can bet that when you guys see shoaib winning us matches all you disappear no where


where were you guys when Shoaib was firing in and winning us test matches against ENgland who at that time came in after beating australia

then against India he showed what a team player he was he is and he will be ..........................thats it

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 24th May 2007, 01:44
Sheikh Sheikh is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Oct 2005
Venue: Karachi
Runs: 8,078
Wickets: 151
All of Shoaib's fine points are mentioned in the article. The article isn't even by me and I haven't even stated how I feel. You don't even read the post and yet you continue to mouth off. Im done wasting my time with you.

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 24th May 2007, 02:01
siddharth siddharth is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Oct 2006
Runs: 7,040
Wickets: 69
I read the article .a lot of hyperboles and some points as well.Well that part which states'' how much hard he is trying to achieve the play boy image '' was pretty much spot on.

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 24th May 2007, 02:25
Daoud's Avatar
Daoud Daoud is offline
World Class Player
 
Debut: Sep 2003
Venue: Sydney
Runs: 16,645
Wickets: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by sohaib17
no its not worth reading and there are like 100 of thousands of threads on this and i can bet that when you guys see shoaib winning us matches all you disappear no where


where were you guys when Shoaib was firing in and winning us test matches against ENgland who at that time came in after beating australia

then against India he showed what a team player he was he is and he will be ..........................thats it

He got plent of praise back then, and deservedly so. But a lot has happened in the last year and a half

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 24th May 2007, 02:30
Lightning's Avatar
Lightning Lightning is offline
International Captain
 
Debut: Jan 2005
Venue: Chicago, USA
Runs: 4,708
Wickets: 29
Occupation: Student
Well written though I don't agree with his viewpoint.

Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 24th May 2007, 03:05
salman24's Avatar
salman24 salman24 is offline
International Captain
 
Debut: Sep 2005
Runs: 4,138
Wickets: 57
Article is too long sorry but whatever it says i disagree shoaib is needed and will continue to play ia

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 24th May 2007, 06:03
Truthteller Truthteller is offline
Local Club Star
 
Debut: Aug 2006
Runs: 934
Wickets: 30
Goodbye, Shoaib Akhter.

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 24th May 2007, 07:06
MIG's Avatar
MIG MIG is offline
PakPassion Moderator
 
Debut: Oct 2004
Venue: Apnay ghar mai - aur kahan ?
Runs: 37,043
Wickets: 2,699
Occupation: Weekend Dad, Full time IT
I dont understand why Pakistani fans spend so much time worrying about Akhtar ! When he is fit, he will play - if he is not, he shouldnt play. When he feels time is right, he will retire - thats all there is to it.

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 24th May 2007, 07:07
Farhad Farhad is offline
World Class Player
 
Debut: Jan 2003
Runs: 14,296
Wickets: 134
Shoaib is the crown jewel of our bowling attack. For absolutely crucial Test Series, we need him to mount a serious challenge, like we did against England and India. Write him off at your peril because he has made brilliant comebacks from injuries and other trials and tribulations to silence his doubters quite a few times already in his Test career. Not for no reason was he the only Pak to feature in both the Test and ODI World XI line-ups to play Aus a season or two ago. He looks very fit indeed and match fitness would come soon inshaAllah.

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 24th May 2007, 08:00
Truthteller Truthteller is offline
Local Club Star
 
Debut: Aug 2006
Runs: 934
Wickets: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIG
I dont understand why Pakistani fans spend so much time worrying about Akhtar ! When he is fit, he will play - if he is not, he shouldnt play. When he feels time is right, he will retire - thats all there is to it.



It would indeed be as you say were it not for the fact that in addition to his ability to devastate opposition batting he also is no mean performer when it comes to devastating his own team' spirit, morale stability and unity.

Depending on which aspect of his devastating skills you decide to focus on he is a hero or a villain.

Hence the discussion.

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 24th May 2007, 08:06
Farhad Farhad is offline
World Class Player
 
Debut: Jan 2003
Runs: 14,296
Wickets: 134
Quote:
he also is no mean performer when it comes to devastating his own team' spirit, morale stability and unity.


Utter nonsense and obviously unsubstantiated.

Devastating to team spirit, morale and unity. Ironically, each point being talked of though can be employed to explain the presence of the ex-skipper who led us in WC, especially in the wake of latest official PCB's damning indictment of Inzamam.

Last edited by Farhad : 24th May 2007 at 08:08.

Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 24th May 2007, 08:30
Easa Easa is offline
Living Legend
 
Debut: Aug 2005
Venue: My Room
Runs: 26,613
Wickets: 370
Occupation: student
How does Inzamam find his way into every thread will never fail to amaze me. Anyways, that is a brilliantly written article and I agree with a lot of the writer's points. Akhtar might come back from injury and deliver, but how long will that be for? An innings of a Test match? Maybe even a Test match? That just isn't good enough.

Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 24th May 2007, 08:41
aabbasi's Avatar
aabbasi aabbasi is offline
Local Club Captain
 
Debut: Feb 2005
Venue: Helsinki, Finland
Runs: 1,085
Wickets: 42
Occupation: DWH Consultant
Has somebody read similar articles about Simon Jones ? Michael Vaughn ? Who have not even won 10% of the matches, that shoaib has won for pakistan.

Shoaib, should play if fit, and shouldn't play if not fit. If pakistan depend on shoaib, its not his fault. As a sportsman, he is bound to have injuries. If he is fit, see if you can find a better bowler than him. If yes, select the other bowler, otherwise select Shoaib.

If he is unfit, try to use other resources like you already mentioned.

Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 24th May 2007, 09:02
Zeenix's Avatar
Zeenix Zeenix is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Jun 2005
Runs: 9,217
Wickets: 170
Unfortunately in Shoaib Akhtar's case its more of a case of More injured days then playing days. I strongly believe that the only way Shoaib Akhtar could've remained fit was by taking Performance Enhancement drugs, which now aren't possible. Hence this long unfitness bout. This also rules out the possibility that he sat out of the world cup because the dopes were still in his system. He was unfit fair and square and couldn't make it. Even if he makes it back i doubt that he'd be more than a medium pacer, If he bowls with full pace then it'll be like the way he broke down in the South African test. But in principle PCB can't say goodbye to him. He has himself to decide.

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 24th May 2007, 09:17
muhammad saad's Avatar
muhammad saad muhammad saad is offline
ODI Star
 
Debut: Jul 2006
Runs: 3,288
Wickets: 168
we cannt even think about it ,other wise we will be in the list of teams having no GENUINE PACE bowler
Currently
1-India
2-Bangladesh
3-Zimbabawe
?-PAKISTAN

Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 24th May 2007, 09:22
Zeenix's Avatar
Zeenix Zeenix is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Jun 2005
Runs: 9,217
Wickets: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by muhammad saad
we cannt even think about it ,other wise we will be in the list of teams having no GENUINE PACE bowler
Currently
1-India
2-Bangladesh
3-Zimbabawe
?-PAKISTAN


If you don't count M. Sami as a genuine pace bowler then we are already most of the time without a GENUINE PACE AND SPIN BOWLER

Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 24th May 2007, 09:23
muhammad saad's Avatar
muhammad saad muhammad saad is offline
ODI Star
 
Debut: Jul 2006
Runs: 3,288
Wickets: 168
M.Sami is not a 90+mph bowler ,he supposed to be 2 years ago but now I would call him slightly fast medium pacer.

Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 24th May 2007, 09:28
Farhad Farhad is offline
World Class Player
 
Debut: Jan 2003
Runs: 14,296
Wickets: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Easa
Akhtar might come back from injury and deliver, but how long will that be for? An innings of a Test match? Maybe even a Test match? That just isn't good enough.


Been good enough in his career to be in the top echelon of ICC Player rankings - if that has resulted from an innings or Test here and an innings there - so be it, but it shows how frequently he has been a match-winner.



Quote:
How does Inzamam find his way into every thread will never fail to amaze me.


Really? Should not amaze in this case as damaging to team spirit, morale and unity were being talked about - and that aligns and sits so well with what the official findings have determined and summed about him.

Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 24th May 2007, 09:43
deviously~fading~away deviously~fading~away is offline
Senior International
 
Debut: May 2005
Venue: Sharjah, UAE
Runs: 3,976
Wickets: 241
Occupation: Account Executive
I did read the whole article & must say its a good read. Nicely writtern! Loved the start!

Last edited by Shez : 24th May 2007 at 09:45.

Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 24th May 2007, 11:37
waqararif11 waqararif11 is offline
Local Club Player
 
Debut: Mar 2005
Runs: 274
Wickets: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farhad
Shoaib is the crown jewel of our bowling attack. For absolutely crucial Test Series, we need him to mount a serious challenge, like we did against England and India. Write him off at your peril because he has made brilliant comebacks from injuries and other trials and tribulations to silence his doubters quite a few times already in his Test career. Not for no reason was he the only Pak to feature in both the Test and ODI World XI line-ups to play Aus a season or two ago. He looks very fit indeed and match fitness would come soon inshaAllah.


well said i agree totally with Farhad, Shoaib Akhtar is our best bowler full stop, without him we wont ever be able to make the jump fro, 3rd or 4th in the word to 1st or 2nd.

Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 24th May 2007, 11:44
Jayed Jayed is offline
International Debutant
 
Debut: Feb 2006
Venue: Lords, England
Runs: 2,674
Wickets: 132
Occupation: Student
India; Sreesanth; 143 kph MAX.
Bangladesh; Mortaza 91.5 mph and Shahadat 90 mph
Pakistan; Sami; Still capable of 92 mph, Shoaib; still 95 max
Sri; Fernando; 92 max, Maling; 94 mph maz.

We still are the fastest. Followed by Sri and Baan

Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 24th May 2007, 12:36
Wasim_Waqar Wasim_Waqar is offline
Local Club Captain
 
Debut: Mar 2007
Venue: Birmingham, England
Runs: 1,134
Wickets: 62
Fantastic article.

I'll never forgive him for the way he treated me when I met the team in Birmingham in Sep 2006: and the next day he was 'injured'

However, as a cricketer, he is absolutely amazing when fit. I really enjoy watching him bowl and think he is a more rounded bowler (mind the pun!) than he used to be which compensates for a slight dip in pace. Make no mistake- if WADA don't ban him, he is crucial for us in the Aus, SA and Ind test series forthcoming.

Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 24th May 2007, 13:10
Sheikh Sheikh is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Oct 2005
Venue: Karachi
Runs: 8,078
Wickets: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Easa
How does Inzamam find his way into every thread will never fail to amaze me. Anyways, that is a brilliantly written article and I agree with a lot of the writer's points. Akhtar might come back from injury and deliver, but how long will that be for? An innings of a Test match? Maybe even a Test match? That just isn't good enough.

Well said. Exactly my position as well. But, I suppose as Ahsan says, "He elicits such passions, and is such a divisive character, that neither people who love him and think he's Pakistan's greatest asset after the Indus River, nor people who think he's a cancer and should not just be thrown out of the team, but also of the country, will ever be persuaded they're wrong."

Hence the debate shall continue...

Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 24th May 2007, 13:17
Truthteller Truthteller is offline
Local Club Star
 
Debut: Aug 2006
Runs: 934
Wickets: 30
I would be interested to know how much each over Shoaib has bowled in the last say two years has cost the PCB.

To do the calculation we need obviously the total number of overs bowled by Shoaib in Test and ODI's. We also need his contract payments. In addition his medical bills. The cost of defending his doping escapades.

I think someone like Farhad who I am sure has all these figures to hand could enlighten us all.

I would not be surprised to find that he is the highest paid person in Pakistan per unit of work done!!

Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 24th May 2007, 13:18
Geordie Ahmed's Avatar
Geordie Ahmed Geordie Ahmed is online now
Moderator
 
Debut: Mar 2004
Venue: St James Park
Runs: 41,213
Wickets: 413
Occupation: Geordie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farhad
Utter nonsense and obviously unsubstantiated.

Devastating to team spirit, morale and unity. Ironically, each point being talked of though can be employed to explain the presence of the ex-skipper who led us in WC, especially in the wake of latest official PCB's damning indictment of Inzamam.


Farhad care to explain why the Worcestershire chairman was less than complimentary about Shoaib?

(gonna be interesting to see how you link Inzi to that one)

Last edited by Geordie Ahmed : 24th May 2007 at 14:21.

Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 24th May 2007, 13:56
Boundary View Boundary View is offline
Local Club Player
 
Debut: Jan 2007
Runs: 453
Wickets: 32
He has been a great bowler for Pakistan. The most excitimg sight in cricket.

BUT :

1) He is nearly 32.
2) His fitness is very suspect
3) He will never regain the fitness to be a top bowler again.
4) He is a terrible team player - bad attititude, selfish.
5) Most of all - he is a CHEAT and a disgrace to Pakistan.

So - GOODBYE.

Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 24th May 2007, 14:21
Sage's Avatar
Sage Sage is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Dec 2000
Venue: USA
Runs: 4,982
Wickets: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthteller
I would be interested to know how much each over Shoaib has bowled in the last say two years has cost the PCB.

To do the calculation we need obviously the total number of overs bowled by Shoaib in Test and ODI's. We also need his contract payments. In addition his medical bills. The cost of defending his doping escapades.

I think someone like Farhad who I am sure has all these figures to hand could enlighten us all.

I would not be surprised to find that he is the highest paid person in Pakistan per unit of work done!!


fantastic post, though i think your login-name may be even more pompous than mine

Quote:
Originally Posted by funny accented taxi driver
Farhad care to explain why the Worcestershire was less than complimentary about Shoaib?

(gonna be interesting to see how you link Inzi to that one)


another fantastic post, this one surprising considering the author ;)
shoaib has always been immature and self-centered, it's difficult to blame even our favorite scapegoat inzi for shoaib's childish behavior over the years

Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 24th May 2007, 14:23
Truthteller Truthteller is offline
Local Club Star
 
Debut: Aug 2006
Runs: 934
Wickets: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geordie Ahmed
Farhad care to explain why the Worcestershire chairman was less than complimentary about Shoaib?

(gonna be interesting to see how you link Inzi to that one)



Easy. Worcestershire has an 'i' in it, So does Inzamam's name. Therefore Inzi is bad, bad, bad. Oh, this logic cannot be good - because 'i' is also in Imran's name.

Sorry, give up. I'll let Farhad solve this one!!

Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 24th May 2007, 15:02
SameerM's Avatar
SameerM SameerM is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Dec 2006
Runs: 7,228
Wickets: 63
Basically IF Akhtar was fit, would u play him ??

Ofcourse u wud! the END !!!

Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 24th May 2007, 15:36
nedian21 nedian21 is offline
First Class Player
 
Debut: Feb 2005
Venue: NewCastle UK
Runs: 1,866
Wickets: 49
Occupation: Systems Engineer
One of the best article written on Shoaib the enigma. Sheikh bhai tell ur frnd that he can easily give a tough competition to Osman and Kamran in cricinfo.

Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 24th May 2007, 15:42
SameerM's Avatar
SameerM SameerM is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Dec 2006
Runs: 7,228
Wickets: 63
nice finish at the end wasnt it

"But make no mistake: Shoaib is not irreplaceable. Hell, we play more than two-thirds of our cricket without him anyway, so how much will we really miss him? I submit: not much. Now is a good time too, what with a new captain, a new coach and, I presume, a new slate.

Come on, Pakistan, throw away those Bensons. It's time to move on."

ps. throw away those B&H and start smokin silk cut.. better for ur health!

Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 24th May 2007, 16:14
Zaad Zaad is offline
Local Club Star
 
Debut: Jun 2006
Runs: 867
Wickets: 56
wow

stunning articele keep up the good work! !

!

Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 24th May 2007, 16:35
Geordie Ahmed's Avatar
Geordie Ahmed Geordie Ahmed is online now
Moderator
 
Debut: Mar 2004
Venue: St James Park
Runs: 41,213
Wickets: 413
Occupation: Geordie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage
another fantastic post, this one surprising considering the author ;)
shoaib has always been immature and self-centered, it's difficult to blame even our favorite scapegoat inzi for shoaib's childish behavior over the years


nice editing sage

Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 24th May 2007, 17:02
Monsee Monsee is offline
Living Legend
 
Debut: Jan 2005
Venue: Orlando, FL
Runs: 21,898
Wickets: 376
Occupation: IT Slave :-(
HaHaHa...Shoaib's Blind followers are huffing and puffing mad here...

Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 24th May 2007, 18:21
Avenger Avenger is offline
Emerging Player
 
Debut: Aug 2006
Runs: 62
Wickets: 3
Man, u guys need to seriously take a chill pill. I dont give a damn who hates shoaib and who doesnt but the fact of the matter is that he is the best bowler in our team and he isnt going anywhere and he is going to get back into the team and play for a few more years.

Be it his injury problems or disciplinary problems, i give credit to the man for proving people wrong on every occasion he has needed to prove a point. He has always had to face ungrateful fans who easily forget all his match winning performances. I am so glad Inzi went out in disgrace in the end, he clearly showed he was jealous of Akhtars personality and would leave no stone unturned in order to kick him out of the team. I would refuse to play under a captain who forgets my match winning performances against NZ in NZ and Eng in Pak on the deadest flattest of all pitches.

No one says Shoaib is perfect. He definately isnt the first and the last problem child to have ever been produced by Pakistan Cricket. What we must realize is that if he has failed us then we have failed him by always talking **** behind his back and putting him down when he has needed picking up. Even i dont know how much effort and strain the guy puts in his bowling action but still i appreciate the fact he does. If it is so easy to produce another 90mph bowler like him then why havent we done so.

We never appreciate our stars. Most other countries around the world would only wish for bowlers like Shoaib in their team. Look at the difference bowlers like Malinga and Fernando have made to Sri lanka. I still give shoaib credit for remaining loyal to Pakistan even though he has recieved more than his fair share of slak. Shoaib definately needed a captain like Imran Khan to nurture and protect him from all sorts of vested intrests that operate in our country. Please give him a break.

Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 24th May 2007, 18:25
Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar's Avatar
Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar is offline
International Debutant
 
Debut: Sep 2005
Runs: 2,893
Wickets: 49
Avenger so did you and rassmalai hook up?

Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 24th May 2007, 18:32
Hussain Hussain is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Sep 2004
Venue: Pakistan/Islamabad
Runs: 7,658
Wickets: 235
Occupation: Engineering student
read only chunks of it
but i must say Sheikh
you write very well

Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 24th May 2007, 18:33
Avenger Avenger is offline
Emerging Player
 
Debut: Aug 2006
Runs: 62
Wickets: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar
Avenger so did you and rassmalai hook up?


Well if it pleases anyone. Nope.

Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 24th May 2007, 18:36
Geordie Ahmed's Avatar
Geordie Ahmed Geordie Ahmed is online now
Moderator
 
Debut: Mar 2004
Venue: St James Park
Runs: 41,213
Wickets: 413
Occupation: Geordie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar
Avenger so did you and rassmalai hook up?



Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 24th May 2007, 18:46
Monsee Monsee is offline
Living Legend
 
Debut: Jan 2005
Venue: Orlando, FL
Runs: 21,898
Wickets: 376
Occupation: IT Slave :-(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger
Well if it pleases anyone. Nope.




So next try 'Jalaibee' instead...I heard it's finger licking delicious

Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 24th May 2007, 21:32
Sheikh Sheikh is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Oct 2005
Venue: Karachi
Runs: 8,078
Wickets: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hussain
read only chunks of it
but i must say Sheikh
you write very well

It's not by me and you should finish reading it!

Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 24th May 2007, 21:33
Sheikh Sheikh is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Oct 2005
Venue: Karachi
Runs: 8,078
Wickets: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by nedian21
One of the best article written on Shoaib the enigma. Sheikh bhai tell ur frnd that he can easily give a tough competition to Osman and Kamran in cricinfo.

I'll pass the message along!

Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 24th May 2007, 21:48
Noman Noman is online now
International Star
 
Debut: Jan 2005
Venue: Denmark
Runs: 5,110
Wickets: 127
Shoaib Akhtar is the most exiting bowler ever in the world.. No one is/are or will run in and bowl like him. just look at the amount of work is needed bowling at that speed....people who hate shoaib will never understand how good he really is.. he is the most talented bowler ever..

Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 24th May 2007, 22:22
siddharth siddharth is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Oct 2006
Runs: 7,040
Wickets: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noman
Shoaib Akhtar is the most exiting bowler ever in the world.. No one is/are or will run in and bowl like him. just look at the amount of work is needed bowling at that speed....people who hate shoaib will never understand how good he really is.. he is the most talented bowler ever..

right i am with u .

He is the most'' exiting '' bowler.

Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 24th May 2007, 22:26
Sheikh Sheikh is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Oct 2005
Venue: Karachi
Runs: 8,078
Wickets: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by siddharth
right i am with u .

He is the most'' exiting '' bowler.






Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 24th May 2007, 22:31
Easa Easa is offline
Living Legend
 
Debut: Aug 2005
Venue: My Room
Runs: 26,613
Wickets: 370
Occupation: student
Quote:
Though I could have done the following calculation for all the years Shoaib has been an international cricketer, I did so only for 2006 because of a lack of time. What I did was relatively simple. I counted the number of days Pakistan played an international game, including tests, ODIs and 20-20 games. If a test ended in four days, I counted it as just four days, not the whole five. I then found the number of days Shoaib was present on the field. What did I find? In 2006, Pakistan played cricket on 79 days. Shoaib played 23. For those who don't have a calculator handy, that works out to a smooth 29%. Twenty nine percent! If cricket was school, and Shoaib was a student, he would have been expelled for attendance by now.

This was the best part of the whole article. Imagine - this calculation was ONLY done for 2006, and he missed 56 days of cricket for Pakistan, what would the statistic be for his whole career? Unbelievable stuff.

Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 24th May 2007, 22:40
siddharth siddharth is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Oct 2006
Runs: 7,040
Wickets: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheikh

......

Last edited by siddharth : 24th May 2007 at 22:42.

Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 24th May 2007, 22:43
siddharth siddharth is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Oct 2006
Runs: 7,040
Wickets: 69
Yes if crikcet was a school ,and if Shoaib was a student .but then he is the principal of the school .

Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 24th May 2007, 23:00
Monsee Monsee is offline
Living Legend
 
Debut: Jan 2005
Venue: Orlando, FL
Runs: 21,898
Wickets: 376
Occupation: IT Slave :-(
Not the principal of the school...more like those loser repeaters who have failed a few times, have huge mustaches, shave like a 30 year old man and are still stuck in the 10th grade!

Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 25th May 2007, 09:04
Farhad Farhad is offline
World Class Player
 
Debut: Jan 2003
Runs: 14,296
Wickets: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Easa
This was the best part of the whole article. Imagine - this calculation was ONLY done for 2006, and he missed 56 days of cricket for Pakistan, what would the statistic be for his whole career? Unbelievable stuff.



My bewildered and confused son

It's even more unbelievable if you gather the fact that despite missing so many matches, he was in the very top bracket of ICC Ratings.

Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 25th May 2007, 15:01
Easa Easa is offline
Living Legend
 
Debut: Aug 2005
Venue: My Room
Runs: 26,613
Wickets: 370
Occupation: student
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farhad
My bewildered and confused son

It's even more unbelievable if you gather the fact that despite missing so many matches, he was in the very top bracket of ICC Ratings.

Oh, its all bright and clear for me now. I get it. Shoaib Akhtar is of phenomenal use to us at the top of the bowling rankings, when he is not bowling for Pakistan! Thanks for explaining that perfectly.

Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 25th May 2007, 15:56
PlanetPakistan PlanetPakistan is offline
Living Legend
 
Debut: Mar 2006
Venue: Orlando, FL
Runs: 23,569
Wickets: 638
Occupation: Student.
He should definitely retire from the ODIs how ever in test matches he can still be quite useful.

Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 25th May 2007, 19:42
Geordie Ahmed's Avatar
Geordie Ahmed Geordie Ahmed is online now
Moderator
 
Debut: Mar 2004
Venue: St James Park
Runs: 41,213
Wickets: 413
Occupation: Geordie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Easa
Oh, its all bright and clear for me now. I get it. Shoaib Akhtar is of phenomenal use to us at the top of the bowling rankings, when he is not bowling for Pakistan! Thanks for explaining that perfectly.



Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 26th May 2007, 05:16
Truthteller Truthteller is offline
Local Club Star
 
Debut: Aug 2006
Runs: 934
Wickets: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Easa
Oh, its all bright and clear for me now. I get it. Shoaib Akhtar is of phenomenal use to us at the top of the bowling rankings, when he is not bowling for Pakistan! Thanks for explaining that perfectly.



I don't believe it is.

To the 'Shoaibies', a well known cult in Pakistan, some of whose members are PPers, Pakistan cricket IS Shoaib Akhter. When he plays Pakistan win, when he doesn't they are a bunch of no - hopers who if they win have done so by some fluke.

The main function of the remaining ten members of the team, is to make up the team, so that Shoaib can have a game of cricket. They should be pleased when he turns up and even more pleased if he actually takes the field with them. Sometimes he may choose to be there most of the innings sometimes not. They should be grateful for whatever Shoaib chooses to do. He is infact so good, that if he chooses to push you or slap you, you should really consider that a real honour. After all from all the others available, he chose you.

Do not despair of what will become of the 'Shoaibies' when he retires. They are already busy looking for a successor around whom and for whom ten other cricketers must exist. Leading candidates for the position at the moment are Muhammed Asif and Najaf Shah.

What you might wonder would become of Shoaib once he does retire.. Do not despair, he will join Imran Khan in the Pantheon of dieties, the likes of which could never again be born on this earth.

Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 26th May 2007, 07:17
siddharth siddharth is offline
International Star
 
Debut: Oct 2006
Runs: 7,040
Wickets: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthteller
I don't believe it is.

To the 'Shoaibies', a well known cult in Pakistan, some of whose members are PPers, Pakistan cricket IS Shoaib Akhter. When he plays Pakistan win, when he doesn't they are a bunch of no - hopers who if they win have done so by some fluke.

The main function of the remaining ten members of the team, is to make up the team, so that Shoaib can have a game of cricket. They should be pleased when he turns up and even more pleased if he actually takes the field with them. Sometimes he may choose to be there most of the innings sometimes not. They should be grateful for whatever Shoaib chooses to do. He is infact so good, that if he chooses to push you or slap you, you should really consider that a real honour. After all from all the others available, he chose you.Do not despair of what will become of the 'Shoaibies' when he retires. They are already busy looking for a successor around whom and for whom ten other cricketers must exist. Leading candidates for the position at the moment are Muhammed Asif and Najaf Shah.

What you might wonder would become of Shoaib once he does retire.. Do not despair, he will join Imran Khan in the Pantheon of dieties, the likes of which could never again be born on this earth.


Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 26th May 2007, 07:23
FAQ's Avatar
FAQ FAQ is offline
Local Club Captain
 
Debut: Sep 2005
Venue: Islamabad, Pakistan
Runs: 1,341
Wickets: 74
Occupation: Datawarehousing Consultant
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIG
I dont understand why Pakistani fans spend so much time worrying about Akhtar ! When he is fit, he will play - if he is not, he shouldnt play. When he feels time is right, he will retire - thats all there is to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aabbasi
Has somebody read similar articles about Simon Jones ? Michael Vaughn ? Who have not even won 10% of the matches, that shoaib has won for pakistan.

Shoaib, should play if fit, and shouldn't play if not fit. If pakistan depend on shoaib, its not his fault. As a sportsman, he is bound to have injuries. If he is fit, see if you can find a better bowler than him. If yes, select the other bowler, otherwise select Shoaib.

If he is unfit, try to use other resources like you already mentioned.

Spot on both of you

Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 26th May 2007, 17:22
PAKISTANI FAN PAKISTANI FAN is offline
Newcomer
 
Debut: Feb 2007
Runs: 15
Wickets: 0
Read the article...thought the arguments were really well balanced. I still think Shoaib needs to be given one more chance...but can understand why people are giving up on him!!!!

Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 28th May 2007, 07:43
harris harris is offline
Newcomer
 
Debut: May 2007
Runs: 32
Wickets: 0
lets not forget that we depend on player's charisma to keep on producing talent. fast bowlers like shoaib akhtar is the one whom we follow at our school. nobody wants to follow m. asif or mcgrath. all of us want to be like shoaib akhtar a fast bowler ask anyone in our school. if there are no bowlers like shoaib akhtar in the cricket team then u will not c any fast bowler in the future. that is why we luv him and want to be like him.

Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 28th May 2007, 15:51
Monsee Monsee is offline
Living Legend
 
Debut: Jan 2005
Venue: Orlando, FL
Runs: 21,898
Wickets: 376
Occupation: IT Slave :-(
Quote:
Originally Posted by harris
lets not forget that we depend on player's charisma to keep on producing talent. fast bowlers like shoaib akhtar is the one whom we follow at our school. nobody wants to follow m. asif or mcgrath. all of us want to be like shoaib akhtar a fast bowler ask anyone in our school. if there are no bowlers like shoaib akhtar in the cricket team then u will not c any fast bowler in the future. that is why we luv him and want to be like him.




Based on this where did Pak came up with a guy like Imran...did he follow the terrifyingly quick 'Fazal Mehmood' as his hero and became a quick bowler?

You don't need a fast bowler in your team to want to bowl fast...there are other teams out there who have fast bowlers too; that is a silly reason to include a liability in your team who refuses to learn from his past mistakes

Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 29th May 2007, 09:32
harris harris is offline
Newcomer
 
Debut: May 2007
Runs: 32
Wickets: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsee
Based on this where did Pak came up with a guy like Imran...did he follow the terrifyingly quick 'Fazal Mehmood' as his hero and became a quick bowler?

You don't need a fast bowler in your team to want to bowl fast...there are other teams out there who have fast bowlers too; that is a silly reason to include a liability in your team who refuses to learn from his past mistakes


i find your argument silly because someone has to start a trend. once it starts then it needs continuous support. how many fast bowlers did we have before Imran, and how many after Imran Khan. fast bowlers set trends and because of this trend we follow. not everyone follow the bad examples by the fast bowlers. like we never talk about taking medicines to enhance performance rather we talk about bowling fast. if you want to keep on having fast bowlers in ur team and not be like india which doesn't hav any real quick bowler then you have to have these kind of bowlers in the team. because we don't have system. we play with tape ball most of the time on cement pitches. because of players like shoaib akhtar every one likes to bowl fast.

i hope to be a fastest bowler of the world one day. and knock the australians out

Last edited by Zeenix : 29th May 2007 at 12:28.

Reply With Quote
Reply

colspan="2">Thread Tools colspan="2">
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 17:10.



Powered by: vBulletin and VBAdvanced CMPS
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
PakPassion™ © copyright 2009 All Rights Reserved. Content on PakPassion™ requires permission for reprint.
One of the largest message boards on the web !