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Should Blair be held responsible?: London bombing: By Robert Fisk

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  #1  
Old 9th July 2005, 08:24
Karachi King Karachi King is offline
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Should Blair be held responsible?: London bombing: By Robert Fisk

“IF YOU bomb our cities”, Osama bin Laden said in one of his recent video tapes, “We will bomb yours.” It was crystal clear Britain would be a target ever since Tony Blair decided to join George W. Bush’s “war on terror” and his invasion of Iraq. We had, as they say, been warned. The G8 summit was obviously chosen, well in advance, as Attack Day.

And it’s no use Mr Blair telling us that “they will never succeed in destroying what we hold dear.” They are not trying to destroy ‘what we hold dear’. They are trying to get public opinion to force Mr Blair to withdraw from Iraq, out of his alliance with the United States, out of his adherence to Bush’s policies in the Middle East. The Spanish paid the price for their support for Bush and Spain’s subsequent retreat from Iraq proved that the Madrid bombings achieved their objectives — while the Australians were made to suffer in Bali.

It is easy for Tony Blair to call the bombings “barbaric” — of course, they were — but what were the civilian deaths of the Anglo American invasion of Iraq in 2003, the children torn apart by cluster bombs, the countless innocent Iraqis gunned down at American military checkpoints? When they die, it is ‘collateral damage’ when ‘we’ die it is ‘barbaric terrorism’.

If we are fighting insurgency in Iraq what makes us believe insurgency won’t come to us? One thing is certain, if Tony Blair really believes that by “fighting terrorism” in Iraq we could more efficiently protect Britain — fight them there rather than let them come here, as Bush constantly says — this argument is no longer valid.

To time these bombs with the G8 summit, when the world was concentrating on Britain, was not a stroke of genius. You don’t need a P.hD to choose another Bush-Blair handshake to close down a capital city with explosives and massacre more than 30 of its citizens. The G8 summit was announced so far in advance that he gave the bombers all the time they needed to prepare. A coordinated system of attacks of the kind we saw on Thursday takes weeks to plan — we can forget the idiotic fantasy that these were timed to coincide with the Olympic decision. Osama bin Laden and his supporters don’t set up an operation like this on the off chance that France will lose its bid to host the Games. Al Qaeda does not play football.

No, this would have taken months — to choose safe houses, prepare explosives, identify targets, ensure security, choose the bombers, the hour, the minute, to plan the communications (mobile phones are giveaways).

Coordination and sophisticated planning — and the usual utter indifference towards the lives of the innocent — are characteristic of Al Qaeda.

And now let us reflect on the fact that Thursday — the opening of the G8, so critical a day, so bloody a day, represented a total failure of the British security services — the same intelligence ‘experts’ who claim there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq when there were none but who utterly failed to uncover a months-long plot to kill Londoners.

Trains, planes, buses, cars, metros. Transportation appears to be the science of Al Qaeda’s dark arts. No one can search three million London commuters every day. No one can stop every tourist. Some thought the Eurostar might have been an Al Qaeda target — be sure they have studied it — but why go for prestige when your common-or-garden bus and tube train are there for the taking.

And then come the Muslims of Britain, who have long been awaiting this nightmare. Now every one of our Muslims becomes the “usual suspect”, the man or woman with brown eyes, the man with the beard, the woman in the scarf, the boy with the worry beads, the girl who says she’s been racially abused. I remember, crossing the Atlantic on September 11, 2001 – my plane turned round off Ireland when the US closed its airspace — how the aircraft purser and I toured the cabins to see if we could identify any suspicious passengers. I found about a dozen, of course, totally innocent men who had brown eyes or long beards or who looked at me with ‘hostility’. And sure enough, in just a few seconds, Osama bin Laden turned nice, liberal, friendly Robert into an anti-Arab racist.

And this is part of the point of the bombings: to divide British Muslims from British non-Muslims (let us not mention the name Christians), to encourage the very kind of racism that Tony Blair claims to resent.

But here’s the problem. To go on pretending that Britain’s enemies want to destroy ‘what we hold dear’ encourages racism; what we are confronting here is a specific, direct, centralized attack on London as a result of a ‘war on terror’ which Lord Blair of Kut al-Amara has locked us into. Just before the US presidential elections, bin Laden asked: “Why do we not attack Sweden?” Lucky Sweden. No Osama bin Laden there. And no Tony Blair.

—Dawn/The Independent.

=====================================

Aneel

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  #2  
Old 9th July 2005, 11:33
z10 z10 is offline
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Maybe this is slightly off topic but i was extremely impressed with the way blair rushed back to london and lead from the front

if i remember correctly at the world trade center attacks Bush rushed off to Texas to his nuclear bunker doing exactly the opposite of what is expected of a leader of a country under attack

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  #3  
Old 9th July 2005, 11:37
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Oxy Oxy is offline
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Robert Fisk is a great writer-he puts things in such a way that it constantly nags at the West and their actions in foreign countries.

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Old 9th July 2005, 13:03
Monsee Monsee is offline
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This line says it all for any Londoner asking or looking for answers, "Just before the US presidential elections, bin Laden asked: “Why do we not attack Sweden?” Lucky Sweden. No Osama bin Laden there. And no Tony Blair."

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  #5  
Old 9th July 2005, 13:21
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Robert Fisk is one of the most respected anti establishment journalists ! He is hated by the right wing in the states and by BNP types in UK....

I think he will get some flak for saying the Balir who is responsible for this!

In my view, as a Muslim and a human, a life is sacrosanct. Whether its in a small village in some remote part of afghanistan or in central London - a life is a life !

Whereas, we may all have differing opinions about how terror threats etc should be dealt with - nothing in my view justifies violence or taking of another humans life. If they are combatants in the field of battle - yes ; if they are innocent people going about their lives, the answer is an emphatic NO!

I am saddebed by the losses in London and my real fears are for the Muslims in the UK who will now have to bear the brunt of the backlash.

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  #6  
Old 9th July 2005, 14:06
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No way should Blair be held responsible for these barbaric acts.

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  #7  
Old 9th July 2005, 14:47
zaf1986 zaf1986 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH
No way should Blair be held responsible for these barbaric acts.

Invasion of Iraq?

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  #8  
Old 9th July 2005, 15:04
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Well if you think that invading iraq and getting rid of Saddam was a bad thing then you are mad.

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  #9  
Old 9th July 2005, 16:03
zaf1986 zaf1986 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH
Well if you think that invading iraq and getting rid of Saddam was a bad thing then you are mad.

Whether or not it was bad or good is another issue. It would have been invaded by Bush even if Blair said no. But by saying yes, he has made ordinary people at risk from terrorists. So yes, he is responsible to an extent.

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  #10  
Old 9th July 2005, 16:04
Monsee Monsee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH
Well if you think that invading iraq and getting rid of Saddam was a bad thing then you are mad.



Try telling this line to the people of Iraq...I see their lives changing for the best...NOT!

I in no way will defend a guy like Saddam (I think he is an animal) but lets also get rid of Mugabe, Fidel Castro, the North Korean guy....list is endless...why stop at Saddam only!

He is not the guy killed who the most number of his fellow citizen...try looking up Pol Pot and Cambodea...and then realise that even Pol Pot was the not the most barbaric guy in history...there have been worse off leaders

How come U.S. and UK didn't act against any others!

Saddam was made, backed, financially supported, befriended, and rejoiced by our good American administration of the past (some like Brumsfeld are still part of the current one)...how come he was not the villian when he killed hundreds of thousands of Kurds and Shiaas




Good old Buddies: Saddam and Brumsfeld:3:




--- NOW TRY FEEDING US THAT LINE AGAIN RH!

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  #11  
Old 9th July 2005, 16:04
zaf1986 zaf1986 is offline
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Ohhoo Monsee sahab, please new thread. Don't hijack this one :3:

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  #12  
Old 9th July 2005, 17:01
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The reason for going to war in Iraq was WMD's, but there weren't any.

Blair lied to the public. Yes I am glad Saddam is gone, but the question is, is Iraq safer now than it was before the invasion and I think you will find the answer is NO.

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  #13  
Old 9th July 2005, 17:21
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Originally Posted by Uzi
The reason for going to war in Iraq was WMD's, but there weren't any.

Blair lied to the public. Yes I am glad Saddam is gone, but the question is, is Iraq safer now than it was before the invasion and I think you will find the answer is NO.

you'd have to ask the people of iraq about that one.

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  #14  
Old 9th July 2005, 17:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MenInGreen
Robert Fisk is one of the most respected anti establishment journalists ! He is hated by the right wing in the states and by BNP types in UK....

I think he will get some flak for saying the Balir who is responsible for this!

In my view, as a Muslim and a human, a life is sacrosanct. Whether its in a small village in some remote part of afghanistan or in central London - a life is a life !

Whereas, we may all have differing opinions about how terror threats etc should be dealt with - nothing in my view justifies violence or taking of another humans life. If they are combatants in the field of battle - yes ; if they are innocent people going about their lives, the answer is an emphatic NO!

I am saddebed by the losses in London and my real fears are for the Muslims in the UK who will now have to bear the brunt of the backlash.
#

Couldnt say it better myself. Good post and I ceartainly wont blame Blair or Bush for London bombings. Why should I?

Blair, Bush and co maybe responsible for killings in Iraq, Afghanistan etc but that does not mean that terrorists or anyone can be excused and 'retaliate' by killing innocent people in Britain or wherever. 2 wrongs dont make a right and every human life is just as valuable.

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  #15  
Old 9th July 2005, 17:24
Fessal Fessal is offline
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I dont know if its true or not but according to one of the leaders of a muslim organisation a muslim sister was attacked because she was wearing a hijab/head scarff. This was what the guy said on sky news on the same day as the bombs.

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  #16  
Old 9th July 2005, 17:42
Karachi King Karachi King is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fessal
I dont know if its true or not but according to one of the leaders of a muslim organisation a muslim sister was attacked because she was wearing a hijab/head scarff. This was what the guy said on sky news on the same day as the bombs.


i hate it when this kind of things happen. when Saddam or Laden does this, its terrorist activity but what about their own country-men!?!?! they might call it patriotism.

i wish i could save her from those ********.

Aneel

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  #17  
Old 9th July 2005, 17:47
Karachi King Karachi King is offline
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now on Iraq issue, they (UK & US) did the most horrible thing by attacking there. they were blaming Iraq for having weapon of mass destruction & as far as i remember when they actually call for a war, there were few experts analysing the situation as well as looking for those weapons in Iraq. still they made those attacks, one wonder why!?!?! & the answer might be as plain & simple as that, OIL.

Aneel

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  #18  
Old 9th July 2005, 18:23
robosapien robosapien is offline
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the world will be a much safer place to live, without CIA and alqaeda.

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Old 9th July 2005, 19:06
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Apparently Muslim Council for Britain has received over 30,000 hate emails in the last 2 days!

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  #20  
Old 9th July 2005, 19:31
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Originally Posted by Oxy™
Apparently Muslim Council for Britain has received over 30,000 hate emails in the last 2 days!


a masjid in Leeds was attacked

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  #21  
Old 9th July 2005, 19:34
zushy_786 zushy_786 is offline
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Originally Posted by Geordie Ahmed
a masjid in Leeds was attacked


City mosque targeted by arsonists



Fire damage was limited to the toilet window

Police are investigating an arson attack on a mosque in Leeds. The fire broke out in a toilet at the Jamiat Tablighul Islam Mosque in Laurel Terrace, Armley on Friday morning.

A police spokeswoman said they thought a piece of cloth was put through a window to start the fire but "there was definitely no accelerant used".

Mohammed Jamil Ismail, a member of the mosque, said community relations in the area were normally very good but he had feared they might be targeted.

"We did not envisage this sort of attack so quickly after the incident that happened in London," he said.

"We have a large Muslim community around here and it's not very nice to be attacked at this time when all the attention is on the Muslim community.

"It seems to me that it may well be a retaliatory action by some fundamentalist part of the non-Muslim community."




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  #22  
Old 9th July 2005, 19:39
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and so it begins...

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  #23  
Old 9th July 2005, 20:45
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oh so familiar. days after 9-11, many mosques including the one in the city where i went to university (st. catharines, ontario) were attacked.

never ending cycle this. blair might stand up and say Britain won't bow down to terrorists and the troops will stay in Iraq, but isn't that really the same thing the terrorists are saying? we won't bow down to your bombings in Iraq/Afghanistan and the terrorism will continue?

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  #24  
Old 9th July 2005, 22:09
Monsee Monsee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaf1986
Ohhoo Monsee sahab, please new thread. Don't hijack this one :3:


Who is hijacking it... I wanted to see RH's response but he coveniently skipped it...wonder how come

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  #25  
Old 10th July 2005, 04:07
devileye devileye is offline
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Allah is Testing a mulsim Eman.:1:

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  #26  
Old 10th July 2005, 14:24
Karachi King Karachi King is offline
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Originally Posted by devileye
Allah is Testing a mulsim Eman.:1:


interstingly, the devil's eye says that :17:

just kindding buddy, don't take it seriously :4: .

Aneel

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  #27  
Old 10th July 2005, 17:06
Monsee Monsee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devileye
Allah is Testing a mulsim Eman.:1:


What about the Iman of those who steal people's threads and post them in another "Cricket Forum", without ever giving credit to where it's due...where is the Iman of such a Muslim then

People become Muslims at their own convenience

---

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  #28  
Old 10th July 2005, 18:25
Fessal Fessal is offline
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Did anyone see the news on PTV where they reported 4 mosques were attacked/vandalised in New Zealand.

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