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Is Tendulkar really over rated?
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#1
27th November 2009, 04:00
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Is Tendulkar really over rated?
http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/11/2...r-is-overrated/
In modern society, the media are the new priests. They pronounce on all manner of things with the air of being the ultimate authority. To challenge these experts is heresy. Yet it can be done. These so-called experts are vulnerable in a variety of ways. For instance, you can dispute the credibility of their views by bringing forth facts. I believe Tendulkar is overrated and I believe I can show this with hard-core facts. The only measure by which Tendulkar outshines other batman is the sheer volume of his runs. There are reasons for this and we shall examine them later. But by every other measure he is outshone. Lets look at those metrics. 1. AVERAGE: Sangakarra, Kallis and Ponting all have better averages. If we look at average by batting position Jayawardene also outranks Tendulkar. Note that Ponting and Sangakarra also play in the slightly less protected batting position of number 3. Tendulkar has never batted at this position. 2. 1000 RUNS PER CALENDAR YEAR: while Lara, Ponting and Tendulkar all have 5 years. Both Lara and Ponting have achieved theirs in much less time. Kallis has also achieved his four 1000+ years at a faster rate than Tendulkar. 3. MOST RUNS IN A TEN YEAR PERIOD: Ponting, Kallis, Dravid, Hayden, Jayawardene and Sangakkara have all scored more runs in the last ten years. Ponting has scored more than 2500 runs than Tendulkar over the same period, this despite batting at number 3. Indeed over EVERY single comparable Ten Year period Ponting has scored more runs than Tendulkar. 4. MAN OF THE MATCH: Kallis and Ponting both have more man of the match awards then Tendulkar. Kallis, Ponting, Lara, Hayden and Sangakarra all receive man of the match awards at a greater strike rate than Tendulkar. So why does Tendulkar have so many runs? Simply put, it comes down to two things: time and playing in India. His longevity is a massive credit to him. But another reason is that playing for India and in India is a massive boost for batsmen and there are metrics that can show this clearly. 1. DRAWS: Tendulkar has played an incredible 66 draws! That is almost 41% of the matches he has played have ended in a draw. Remove those matches from his average calculations and his average drops a massive 5 runs to less than 50. That is around a 10% boost from those draws. His average in drawn matches is 65. Interestingly, an analysis of Dravid produces a similar conclusion. 2. MATCHES WHERE TEAMS SCORE GREATER THAN 600 RUNS: over 50% of matches where a team scores over 600 runs in the last ten years have been played in India. Indian pitches produce big scores. 3. GROUND AVERAGES: over the last 20 years, Indian grounds have averaged more than 70 runs per match than those outside of India (minimum 5 matches). Discussions like the above can generate a lot of heat but not much light. Amongst the palaver and the hyperbole, the figures reveal the truth about how good a player is. The truth is, Tendulkar is overrated. Or rather, some lesser rated batsmen should be given more credit. 
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#2
27th November 2009, 04:20
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This article proves my life long argument...if he is so good that he is the best since Bradman and no one comes close than why he does not dominate the rest of the world in averages etc.
The only thing great about him is the mountain of runs and records but he cannot even lead the rest in average and many other areas, as highlighted above!
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#7
27th November 2009, 05:19
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You bet he is.
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#8
27th November 2009, 05:19
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I don't know if its sarcasm or not but I agree. He dominated Australia in Australia when Australia were the kings of the world.
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#9
27th November 2009, 05:23
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pakistan dominated england in england after 1992 WC win, when england were the kings see...doesn't prove any point
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#11
27th November 2009, 05:30
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I got to agree he is way more over rated than what the article is giving him credit for.. Yes he is over rated
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#12
27th November 2009, 05:30
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No, we were the kings because we won the WC. Tendulkar dominated Australia during the time they had Warne, McGrath, Gillespie
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#13
27th November 2009, 05:31
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Monsee a life long Tendulkar follower ?
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#14
27th November 2009, 05:33
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Hey kid get that Carlton Dance off your Avtar, I dont even read your posts anymore I am too busy looking at the Carlton dance 
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#15
27th November 2009, 05:33
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Really when did that happen...I'd reckon based on that dominance India must've won atleast two, three series down under by now....
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#16
27th November 2009, 05:34
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 no can do sir
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#17
27th November 2009, 05:34
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Dig deeper and even that argument fails mostly...If I am correct, he never really scored heavily with all those three fit and firing in the same game
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#18
27th November 2009, 05:35
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No matter what people say.
Can anyone of us have scored as many Mohallah runs as that man has scored in International arena? He has been around for 20 years just because he is an awesome player and used to play for a pathetic side which had no match winners apart from him. If he had played in any other side which had match winners, the draw % would have been more less than what it is. So for me, no he is not over-rated.
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#19
27th November 2009, 05:35
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Based purely on individual performance, Tendulkar is not over-rated. His team around him may be crap.
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#20
27th November 2009, 05:35
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no he didn't...failed the whole series then played one massive knock in the last match
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#21
27th November 2009, 05:37
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Besides his averages against Pakistan and South Africa, his statistics are flawless. He averages 50+ against Australia, I don't know of another batsman in the modern era who did that. His averages against Pakistan (42) and South Africa (35) aren't even that bad. In the end, any argument saying he's crap is poor and based on bias.
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#22
27th November 2009, 05:38
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That series didn't have McGrath and Warne.
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#24
27th November 2009, 05:41
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then which one is he talking about? 2004 Sachin was injured till the last test...I guess 1998 then? I don't think Gillespie was in that series?
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#26
27th November 2009, 05:44
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Digging deeper, 99 Tour of Oz all three names you mentioned played he avg 44 and 2001 when we beat them with all the three names you mentioned he still hovered around the mid 40's. Only time he actually failed against them was in 2004 when Oz finally won the series in India and Tendulkar didnt play 2 or 3 test in that series. He failed after being rushed back from injury as India were getting thumped...
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#27
27th November 2009, 05:46
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Glenn McGrath
I still think Tendulkar is the best batsmen in the world ahead of Steve Waugh and Lara. Brain Lara Sachin is a genius. I'm a mere mortal. You take Don Bradman away and he is next up I reckon." - Steve Waugh "I have seen God. He bats at number 4 for India" - Mathew Hayden "He's 99.5 percent perfect" - Viv Richards "Cricketers like Sachin come once in a lifetime, and I am privileged he played in my time" - Wasim Akram Sir Don Bradman I saw him playing on television and was struck by his technique, so I asked my wife to come look at him. Now I never saw myself play, but I feel that this player is playing much the same as I used to play, and she looked at him on Television and said yes, there is a similarity between the two...his compactness, technique, stroke production... it all seemed to gel! in reference to Sachin Tendulkar Andrew Symonds "To Sachin, the man we all want to be" What Symonds wrote on an aussie t-shirt he autographed specially for Sachin. So who would be able to judge a cricketer better than these people?? McGrath has played alongside Ponting. Lara himself is quoted above. Shane warne's quotes are well known. Give it a rest.
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#28
27th November 2009, 05:46
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Oh man i love it, he is over rated because he is all over A PAKISTANI FORUM. I JUST LOVE IT
I LOVE WHEN PEOPLE ARE JEALOUS WHERE IS RA
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#29
27th November 2009, 05:47
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But yes I stick to the thread starter's statement he is over-rated
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#30
27th November 2009, 05:47
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Wrong, almost 47. That too with 2 blatant wrong decisions. One when he was given out shoulder before wicket and one when he was given out caught when the ball hit his pats. Quote:
Wrong, he averaged 50.
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#32
27th November 2009, 05:55
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But you got to give it to SRT though, I mean he is more popular than any Pakistani players and that too on Pakistani website . The guy just owns lol..
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#33
27th November 2009, 06:12
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COME ON GUYS!
Sachin is one of the greatest batsman to have played the game. I can safely say I don't like Indian cricket but this guy has been a fantastic batsman. As for the fact that he hasn't been able to lead India to many wins.. that's extremely unfair looking at the bowlers he had. Kuruvilla and Mohanty.. who the heck is going to win with that? Test matches are won by bowlers not batsman. Sachin contributed a lot and still does.. it's just sad that he couldn't have played for a team like Australia and won more often.
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#34
27th November 2009, 06:12
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Even taking the stats posted in the article into account how does that make Tendulkar overrated?
Calling anyone (apart from Bradman) the greatest batsman of all time is going to be subjective always but Tendulkar definitely presents his case well (as do most of the other batsman in that list) In addition, while I do not feel like going through it all myself, the article does not look at the other side of the coin for other players it mentions as well (Ponting in India, Jayawardene away from home etc...) which would also hurt the cases of the other batsmen mentioned. Personally I feel Kallis is the greatest batsman of this era but again that is my own view and in no way lessens the monster that is Sachin. He averages 50 against almost every opposition and has scored worldwide. He has been around for 20 years yet he has never had an extended slump. The man is truly a batting machine. It is true that he may not have been a "matchwinner" but it is well and truly not Sachin's fault that India has some of the worst bowling lineups ever produced by a premier test nation. Anyways, the greatness of Sachin is that he has always been able to stay away from the critics and do his own thing. He is the man yet never shows himself to be as such. Humble all the way through while still ripping oppositions apart, that is why I will always be a huge fan of his.
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#35
27th November 2009, 06:27
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He is in my team, so don't you guys dare to call him over-rated
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#36
27th November 2009, 06:48
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The guy is a brilliant batsman - only an idiot would deny that. You cant score the amount of runs he has and be an average player
Is he over rated? Well in a certain way he is - those that claim he is the greatest batsman of all time and say he is far superior to any other batsman are over rating him BUT then also you get people that under rate him Leaving aside any other issue's regards to what motivates him etc etc what is certain is that he is a world class batsman, one of the greatest of all time
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#37
27th November 2009, 10:16
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Obviously, he's a fantastic player.
You don't score 30000 runs without being in another class altogether. And, not to mention, he hasn't been an accumulator all his career, its hard to forget that. The Tendulkar of the 90's was a special, special player. The Tendulkar of the 2000's is also very good, but I just miss his demolition of Australia in the 90's in ODI's in Sharjah. That was when he was just on another plane altogether.
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#38
27th November 2009, 10:55
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Lol, the only reason I am replying to you is because I want this thread to continue. All your theories fall flat on their face and posters like tdigi have avoided replying for a reason. Sachin doesnt need to be defended from any 20/20 expert who comes up with some stats but hey, we can have some fun here Last edited by Indiafan : 27th November 2009 at 11:01.
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#39
27th November 2009, 10:59
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BTW, the OP proves how you cna take twisted logic (equating a team goal like victory,defeat, draw, man of the match, etc with an individual goal like scoring runs), selective stats (taking batsmen in their peak in one era with another era and ones who have played less tests) false stats (that Sachin sccores because of home pithces, ignoring that he averages equally well overseas) to prove anything you want
Congratualtions OP, you have just proved that Gambhir, Kallis, Mahela and Sangakarra are way, way better than the over-rated Richards and Lara Last edited by Indiafan : 27th November 2009 at 13:08.
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#40
27th November 2009, 11:02
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Quit arguing man, it's not worth the time.
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#44
27th November 2009, 11:33
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He was averaging almost sixties at the beginning of this decade. The few years he lost to tennis elbow really brought his form down. At one stage doctors had told him he couldnt play cricket again. He wasnt even able to pick up a bt. He fought back from there Last edited by Indiafan : 27th November 2009 at 11:34.
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#45
27th November 2009, 11:43
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I think its so simple:
Sachin: Great player without any doubt! Sachin: Playing for his runs without any doubt! Sachin: As he is doing it for his records at the same time he kills India chances to win the match. The last point is so true if you belive or not if you can remember in 1999 India lose a test match against Pakistan only because of him. He played so well but in the end as India try to win the match he shows he is not playing for India only for his runs doesnt matter if India wins or not! Thats the only thing i hate about Sachin. A batsman who is not playing for his country is not a good player for me!
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#46
27th November 2009, 11:50
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Too many assumption s in your post. Players play bad shots and get oput all the time. It only requires one bad shot to get out. In the 99 match, Sachin was playing almost with a 'broken back' for hours. the pain had become unbearable, When he got close to victory, its obvious why he tried to finsih it faster. Do you know Sachin locked himself in the dressing room bathroom and cried for hours after India lost that match? He refused to come out and accept the man of the match award. To say he doesnt care for an India victory is false Last edited by Indiafan : 27th November 2009 at 11:53.
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#47
27th November 2009, 12:00
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Bro main discuss nahi karna chahta i just wrote what i belive. Aur ager wo bemar tha to na khelta aur yeh 1999 ka match sirf main nahi even Media bhi kehta hai ke kese India hara tha mujhe to tum chup karwa doge itni sari Media ko nahi karwa sakte anyway if you are an Indian i can understand you will never try to understand it.
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#49
27th November 2009, 12:05
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I think Sachin got injured during the match not prior to it. Thus, obviously he had to bat for his team. Also, it might be best if you can stir up some articles proving your point. I only have faint memories of that series and that match but it would be nice if you could back your point with an article. 
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#50
27th November 2009, 12:13
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yaar mere bahi main kisi se fight nahi kar raha i already told you
end of discusion i am not against India infact i belive Dravis is a good player of Cricket and watching him is a good thing to do and if you are a cricketer yourself then you might also learn from Dravid.
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#51
27th November 2009, 12:51
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S Tendulkar is definitely ONE of the greatest batsmen of all time, Period.
He is a guy who can really bat in all conditions under any circumstances. Is he over-rated? Outside India: NO, Within India: YES. I base my analysis on the simple fact that Indian media exaggerate each and every thing he does. If he does not score runs in SA, they give some excuse and twist it to make him a genius. He is a genius no doubt but he fails in a series or match then the media should sportingly accept it rather than twisting the whole scenario.
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#52
27th November 2009, 12:55
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The main problems with his article is that he says tendulkar wouldn't score as may runs if he played in another country rather than india, despite the fact tendulkar plays well in other countries, thats an assumtion that isn't based on any fact. In fact you can come to the same assumtion that ponting wouldn't be as good if he played in india based on the fact that he only averages 20 their. and lara as well who averages 30.
Anthother huge flaw is when he talks about averages, tendulkar averages more than khallis and one run less than ponting despite the fact he's been playing since he was 16! and never been dropped sine then and reached his peak in the 90s unlike the other 2 who peaked in the time that batting conditions are ridiculously good. If anything they should be average atleast 5 runs more to make their averages an advantage over tendulkar.
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#53
27th November 2009, 13:06
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There is no doubt that the bowlers were more dangerous and pitches around the world in 90's were more sporting than this decade.
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#54
27th November 2009, 13:06
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Wouldnt india have lost bad;y if he ahdnt played? Still he got them close. And was disappointed when they lost. Maybe he failed in taking India through but aisa bolna galat hai ki unhe jeeet/haar ki parwah nahi.
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#55
27th November 2009, 13:09
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Best Batsman Ever !
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#58
27th November 2009, 15:17
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I am just happy that Sachin wasn't born in England or NZ. Those guys boost their players all day even if they suck.
Just look at guys like Flintoff. A good bowler that was made out to look like he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. As for New Zealand ... their commentators are the biggest show offs in the history of cricket. Shane Bond comes back... "Brilliant comeback from the legend" (btw he's only played 18 test ) and then Asif picks up 3 in the first and 4 in the second innings .. all he gets "good bowling from Asif". These guys only boost their own players and I am glad Tendulkar wasn't born there.Indian media is good at overhyping anything and everything but I still don't find it as annoying as when English/Kiwi commentators do it. At least with the Indian media you know they are going to do it. Main thing is... someone like Tendulkar is hard to overrate based simply on his batting. A guy who has scored everywhere in bunches. A true legend of the game.
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#59
27th November 2009, 15:21
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Exactly!! What exactly is he "the best at"?
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#60
27th November 2009, 15:24
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oh God here is another thread....sorry not reading the posts but just wondering if he isnt that good why is every other thread here is trying to show what not he has done...obviously he is a human and there are things that he hasnt done in life...i guess he has never hit his first delivery of the innings for six...oh he hasnt scored 500 or more in a test match...forget a test innings or a match he hasnt scored more than 446 in a series (i hope i remember correctly)...seriously we need to get over this thing..he is over rated he is yeh he is woh.....he is a LEGEND...
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#61
28th November 2009, 04:39
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It seems that the author of this idiotic article has watched cricket only in this decade, where every tom, dick and harry like ponting, jaya have cashed in on average bowlers like Sir Ajit Agarkar and inflated their averages. Hayden, Jaya and Ponting are prime examples of HTBs. Their away average is worse than the home average. Sachin has no such skewed stats. Infact, among all the batsmen he mentioned, only Sachin and Lara have played quality bowlers like Wasim, waqar, donald at their peak. Don't forget Sachin has a better average at the start of this decade. If not for injuries, he would have averaged better. And he has the best average in ODIs among all the batsmen he mentioned. You only see greats like Sachin once in a lifetime.
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#62
28th November 2009, 06:14
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I remember Tendy's first match at the WACA, back in 1991 or 1992 I think. He had already scored a ton as an 18yo in Sydney I think it was, and it was his first match at the WACA against an OZ pace attack comprising of snarlers in McDermott and Hughes and the underrated Paul Reiffel. This wasn't the WACA of today, it was the WACA of 20 years ago, when the keeper would stand yards and yards and yards behind the stumps because the glassy surface was lightning fast and had more bounce than a trampoline.
Only 4 batsmen passed 50 in their first innings - 3 from OZ (one of them a ton from David Boon, the other two half tons to Border and Tom Moody) and one from India, the 18yo kid who had never played at the WACA before. While his team collapsed around him like a heap of old rubbish, Tendy produced a great knock scoring 114 out of a total of 270-odd when no other Indian batsman passed 50. I remember it being in the papers after that that Merv Hughes, after watching Tendy score his tone, turned to Allan Border and said "AB this little pr!ck's going to score more runs than you". And he was right eh. Despite the criticism of Tendy playing for milestones, or that he scores most of his tons on subcontinental featherbeds, you can't deny that he's scored tons against the best teams in the world, on all surfaces, at their best. 10 tons against OZ, 7 against England, 3 against SA. He got game.
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#65
28th November 2009, 06:23
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I can give credit where credit is due. I can also criticise where criticism in warranted.
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#66
28th November 2009, 06:49
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Yeah Sachin is God, don't say anything bad about him. right? Well After 20 years of him playing you just won your 100th test, what an achievement. Your man is only for his own stats. That's it. He could care less if India wins or lose. He is screwing up Gambhir by taking his opeing position.
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#67
28th November 2009, 06:52
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And despite Akmal's juniors heroics Pak lost today's match. What a loser he is. What a selfish player who played only for his debut hundred and average. why are you guys going on and on about his innings when the team didnt win? Why care for his personal stats. so what if he looked good in both innings, the main thing is team lost See the flawed logic here? Last edited by Indiafan : 28th November 2009 at 06:55.
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#69
28th November 2009, 06:57
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So you are comparing Akmal with Tendu. That's great. So you acknowledge Omar as next Tendu. Well at least one Indian fan tell the truth
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#70
28th November 2009, 07:00
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 This is exactly what I try to say when people claim that Sachin is a selfish player. The fact is that if you're team isn't good .. you will always lose because test match cricket is not a one man team.
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#71
28th November 2009, 07:02
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So Dravid, Laxman, Yuvraj, Ganguly, Gambhir and Sehvag all uselss? We sure do have tendu's supporter here
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#73
28th November 2009, 07:26
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well said, he can keep scoring run and blame everything on the bowler. India won the test match against Sri Lanka, who were your top scorers? Funny most ot the time India wins when Tendu doesn't score. Believe it or not, you have a much better batsman in Dravid. Cherish him.
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#74
28th November 2009, 07:37
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With out tendulkar india would not have won 3 test series vs australia as well as series wins vs every test country in the world. what else does he have to do to prove he is a match winner?
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#75
28th November 2009, 07:38
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I never said sachin is god. He is just another sportsperson. I just like his batting. You must remember that there are 11 players playing in the team. If only our bolwers in the 90s were half good... his contribution wouldn't have gone waste. As I said earlier, those who saw sachin post 2000 will not be able to appreciate his genius. He used to be a one man army in those days
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#76
28th November 2009, 07:40
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Of course, according to him, that logic applies only for Indian players because Indians are selfish!
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#77
28th November 2009, 07:42
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I thought you just said sachin is useless.
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#78
28th November 2009, 07:58
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Please look at how many test matches India has won after they are all in the side. India is yet to lose a test match for over a year. We have never lost under Dhoni. We havent lost in the last 11 some series. India is tied for first place now in the test rankings. Lol. i dont whether you have any point here apart from your agenda against Sachin. You keep on changing goal posts
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#79
28th November 2009, 08:00
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Please, please start watching some test matches before you make a complete fool of yourself on internet forums. He has contributed in so many recent wins including chasing a record score against England, etc You sound sillier with each post
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#80
28th November 2009, 08:42
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I am here. Although I was at rooftop dance party if you really want to know. Not sure why you ask for me though, I don't bag Tendulkar. He is a gun and a champion, one of the greatest batsmen to have played the game. Whether he is overrated or not depends where he is being rated really. If people are saying he is greatest batsman ever then yes they are overrating him. But if people are saying he is just another batsman are underrating him.
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