For Crying Out Loud Kick Malik Out!

I don't know why we're playing him.

He is nothing but a flat track bulley.
These are some of the reasons why I would keep him far away from the side:

(1) Whenever there is even a little help from the pitch, he looks absolutely helpless. Kulasekera exposed him in Lanka and I'm expecting Bond and Martin to do the same.

(2) He was known to be a key member in the YK Fiasco and would hardly be a good "team man"

(3) Its not like he is being used as an all rounder and hardly bowls in matches now

__________________________________________________ _________

I know that he might come out and score some runs tomorrow (highly unlikely) but the thing is he is by no means a long term solution to our batting problem.
I would play someone younger. Even is it means playing 3 openers or an additional all rounder in the side. Because with Malik, we are not going to get runs consistantly.

cant agree more. Watch Pakistan getting bowled out for 131 with Malik scoring a 39 n.o. Then watch his fans come out in droves defending him for his fighting knock.

i'd play

salman, nazir, misbah, asim kamal, rana, arafat, BHANJA

all over malik

malik can not be kicked out!! did not you see what happened to YK when misbah was dropped..if they drop malik then yousaf will be out!

guys there is big group in our team...malik..kamran..misbah...Butt..etc.
let me tell you some thing..BUTT came back after champion trphy becasue of afridi..malik...and kamran wanted him to come back...

so im sure malik will not be dropped!!

They wouldn't be making a bad case though. 131 all out with him remaining not out would show he was the only one trying.

Hopefully we win tomorrow.. in the end that's what matters.

Therein lies the problem. He's the perennial villain. Even if he does play well tomorrow, he's going to be the enemy.

Thats kind of sad considering he's not an Indian cricket player or something. He plays for our team and he's a pretty decent batsman. No idea where the hate comes from, to be honest.

I fully expect him to have a pretty good series.

is the man to look out tomorrow. He will smash the NZ bowlers all over the park and single handedly bring his team victory.

I'm not saying I hate him for if he scores tomorrow. My reasons for disliking him are different as specified in many other threads.
But if he scores, it doesn't matter what type of a person he is, he stays in the team.

But I'm simply saying (judging from his innings previously in helpful conditions and how helpless he looks while batting in them) that he will not do well consistantly. Sure, he is a batsman, he will get the odd score about once in 10 innings. But we can not afford that.

When has Malik scored in bowling conditions? Give me 3 innings?

I don't recall him playing a single match winning knock outside of the subcontinent

Although I'm sure he solely based on how long he's played, any statistician wanna prove me right/wrong here

As I said earlier,

Name 3 big scores in bowling conditions for all pro Malik people?

Agree with you Easa.
Yes, he needs to work on his technique playing in a few conditions, but otherwise, Malik is actually quite a good batsman. I fail to understand where the random hate for Malik comes from on here.. and all the people saying 'Malik is the villain in the dressing room' etc etc etc really need to shut up and only speak if they have proof.

He is such a clown laughing when he got dismissed by bond to suggest he was unlucky felt like throwing my shoe at the tv.

he is only eligible to play t20s at the moment... in ODI's either razzaq or malik shud play depending on pitch conditions. If its swinging then razzaq can be a handful and malik wont be able to put bat to ball any way

Well, he's had one tour to Australia. He made 6 and 41 in two innings.

He's had one tour to the West Indies. He made 13 and 64 in his two innings.

So he is unproven on helpful wickets. But he hasn't been a failure or a "walking wicket" either. The jury isn't out. At least give the guy a chance, he's only played 20 odd matches and averages a shade under 40. That isn't horrible at all.

Yeah that really pissed me off

His expression. That grin on his face as if he was the unluckiest person alive. What more do you expect with glued feet and a bat fishing miles away from the stumps?

77 average in south africa,scored 128 against india in the CT

How about his innings in Lanka for the first 2 tests?

Those were some nice fresh pitches and look at the way he struggled.

I also remember the CT in England which was held really late and the pitches were helpful and hence he had an absolute shocker there.

He only scores at convenient moments when flat pitches, poor bowling attacks are available.

Some people deal with stress like that. You don't have to smash your bat on the ground to show your frustration.

Younus does the same thing.. he smiles and walks away quickly.

I saw nothing wrong with his reaction. The shot was atrocious and I can agree with that but don't hate him for smiling.

kami is drifting away from this snake as he is now vice captain and got his lill bro in the team as well. Misbah will aslo keep distance from him as malik is the mastermind behind his underperformance and getting dropped so keep ur fingers crossed tht he dont play next test.

Ajj "Chand" match winning innings kheelay ga

who didnt struggle in lanka ? people are using malik alone as a scapegoat,the problem is clear,massive mismanagement of the team and lack of responsibiliy with some decent leadership malik can be whipped into shape soon,i'd prefer him over misbah any day,what happened to all those malik-haters kissing his bunions after the CT ? very hypocritical views

Um no, guy.

He had scores of 38, 0, 39 not out, and 6.

The 0 was an atrocious caught behind decision. He wasn't out.

So he had one failure out of 4. Big deal.

All those people calling Malik the "mastermind" of some underhanded plot

Does he really look like someone that can be called a mastermind of anything at all?

A limited batsmen and indeed an FTB, I was shocked he was fit for this series. Always struggles against top quality bowling or when ball moves around!

Its just really hard to take you seriously because of your utter U-turn on Younis Khan and your opinion on his batting ability.

Didn't you say he was a lassi-maker and an FTB not four years ago?

perhaps he thought kiwis would be a push over and that he'd score some runs here and then pull out of the aussie series citing injury!!!

seriously though, whatever malik might be as a person, the fact remains that he has been persisted for a looooong time in test matches and has failed pretty much every time outside of asia (even his record in asia isnt all that great!)....we managed to unearth a gem in umar akmal, can see some hope in fawad, and there must be others in pakistan too that deserve a chance over Malik...

We need to pick teams on performances not because of seniority!

He's a paindoo mastermind......whatever he has done hasn't really worked out well....instead of younis, he is now playing under yousuf and their mutual disrespect is well known....

This is the problem with malik, he is mediocre at everything:

Batting
Bowling
Captaincy
Organising a mutiny
chirpsing women....he has to resort to going online!!

Why does everyone have to throw in the "online marriage" jokes? Really ridiculous now. That was his personal choice and he shouldn't be mocked for that.

We should keep it to cricket. What right do we have to comment on the personal lives of players and even make fun of him for that?

And why do u feel the need to ONLY respond about the online stuff, how about addressing the other points?

What ! He met his wife over internet matrimony ?

Dont feel upset guys he cannt play in pressure situation so its very unlikely he will get a score more than 20odd.

He is rubbish against the moving ball

Time will tell when Bond and co expose him with the bounce.

Crowe said the Wellington pitch is a bowler friendly pitch. Will be interesting to see him bat there

I can pick whatever part of your post I want to talk about. I found that online part offensive so I said it.

Although for your satisfaction I will talk about the other points.

Shoaib Malik is certainly a mediocre batsman and I have felt this ever since he started playing tests. A fine ODI batsman but in tests he just stinks. His bowling is useless to talk about because he doesn't have the doosra anymore thus making him ineffective.

Captaincy/leadership is the worst aspect of his game. He simply can't lead a side. The results are in front of everyone to see.

As for organizing a mutiny.. this is all based on assumptions and we don't even know the real story. I refuse to get sucked into bashing any player because they might not even have been a part of it.

I already stated my views on the online taunt.

Oh please
Malik was one of the main culprits behind it

Look at the kind of statements he has made ("Have i walked from lahore that I need rest")

Time and time again he crticizes the team management publicly for decisions example him being made to open.

Showing displeasure is one thing. Creating groups is another thing. We easily mix them up and assume the worst. Many players get ticked off about things but that doesn't mean every player creates groups to get their point across.

I am not saying he didn't because he might as well have done the bad deed. I just don't want to make comments on someone without knowing the actual truth.

Fair enough

Lets just keep it to his pathetic batting then.

In four innings outside the subcontinent? Yeah, what a failure lol

I can assure you.. I don't need any proof about his batting though. He stinks it up real good in that aspect.

He simply doesn't deserve a spot in the team. He needs to go back and work on his game. Misbah should directly replace Malik. Yousuf needs to tell Malik that "We are not resting you, in fact we are dropping you and you won't be playing in this series again". That would make my day.

Agree with most. Get rid of him. Haven't seen him do anything in test matches. Replace him with a youngster or a batting/bowling all-rounder.

I think he's talking in general at home and away. Malik's batting in test cricket is simply not up to par. He scores in patches and that's never good for the team. Plus recently he has really been off key.

It would be best if he sits out and works on his game because as of right now he is a liability to the team.

There have been instances when conditions in the sub continent have also favoured the bowlers.


As I said, Malik has been playing for a good 6 years in the side now.
Name 3 innings in difficult batting conditions? You may include all Tests, Odis and t20 innings if you want

dont ruin the the other thread on timepass, where you made a hundred odd recently!!

be objective about malik and try to show you cricketing brain rather then trying to defend the indefensible...

as of now i cant see how anyone who knows a bit about cricket can pick up on the fact that Malik has probably one of the worst techniques of any international test match batsman...

he cant play the short ball (even on a freekin dead wicket!)
he cant play the moving ball
he doesnt use his feet
he has a crap record

how many more games is this guy gonna have to play before some logic is applied???? Malik, with all his experience, should be scoring centuries consistently, at very least making sure that he doesnt give his wicket away!!!

He's definitely not indefensible.

I am trying to be objective - that is why I'm not blindly hating him. He obviously has technical limitations: he gropes at the ball outside off stump early on and lunges forward without using soft hands. He has his issues - he is no Mohammad Yousuf. But I think he has the temperament and shot making ability to succeed at Test cricket and average in the mid 40's.


That matters diddly squat. People over-think technique, batsman employ the batting technique that they think will get them to score runs. Many of the top batsman today have dodgy techniques - Graeme Smith plays around his front pad, Chris Gayle has feet like lampposts, Ponting has a real weakness for the inswinger early on in his innings. Inzamam's shuffle accounted for most of his dismissals, Moyo's bat-lift means that he has trouble digging out yorkers.

Yet these batsman have all been absolute superstars for their respective teams because they have been able to adjust. I'm not comparing Malik to them, but having "bad" technique is not the be-all, end-all.


You told me to be objective and then you come out with this?

The guy averages 38 after 25 odd games. He averages 42 as an opener, even, when the ball is new and shiny.

I never once said that is going to light up international cricket like Umar Akmal might. But he will end his career with an average above 40 and for a middle order batsman, that is excellent.

Malik will be gone once Younis Khan or another specialist batsmen comes in. Umer Akmal has already got his place in the team.

Everyone else in the team has their place except openers, Malik and Fawad their place is in danger. It would be really unfair to drop Fawad because he is head and shoulder above Malik. Someone who has common sense would drop Malik and bring in either Misbah another specialist batsmen and in future have Younis Khan.

1.Uncertain(Ahmed Shezad maybe? he has great technique.)
2.Uncertain(Umer Amin? Never seen him, but heard a lot about him. He is elegant left hander)
3.Younis Khan
4.Mohammed Yousuf
5.Umer Akmal
6.Fawad Alam
7.Kamran Akmal
8.Mohammed Aamer
9.Umer Gul (his place is uncertain, I would pick Shoaib Akhtar if he is fit. If not have some another good bowler)
10.Mohammed Asif
11.Saeed Ajmal/Danish Kaneria

Easa bhai
I have asked you numerous times to give me some examples of good innings he played (in any format) that were in conditions that were actually difficult to bat in?

ThatS exactly what I was thinking if we struggle and say are 60/4 watch him score a fighting 40odd and cement his place for the remaining matches. Another thing I would like to ask why didn't malik bat at three?After yousaf he is the most experienced middle batsman and on a tough away tour its not fair on fawad or Umar to bat higher than malik.When will these seniors take the responsibility .

In sri lanka ...he played murali and co on turner for 1 day and a half and secured a draw. This is just one example

for me biggest shock is malik playing in the team as special middle order batsman specially in test. and seriously bigger shock then farhat playing.

Malik seems to get in, hes a bit like teflon, nothing sticks to him, he seems to play through every controversy.

I partially agree with the opening statement, Good points made on his technique and lack of runs outside subcontinent, he cannot play as a geniune batsman with that technique, ballerina pull shots are not acceptable against geuine pace.

However getting to the point about groupings, sorry but you cant name and shame Malik without hardcore proof, im sorry but you just cant. In fact Afridi also openly talks about captaining the odi side, yet there are no calls of grouping there, the way that Afridi talks i would be not surprised if the mutiny had been lead by him.

Malik needs to bowl more, and he needs to get the doosra back into his bowling, even as an allrounder his batting needs to improve, atm if Misbah comes back, i would put Misbah in striaght away, if not, a third opener? no way Manzoor is just as bad as Malik, he would need to go aswell, bit stuck cause without Misbah, only Iqbal .

Someone made a point that with his experience he should be scoring 100's regulalrly, i agree with that, if he isnt then there is a serious reason why he isn't. teche technique is the reason, to Maliks credit however he did play well in the champions trophy, even on the seaming wickets against WI and Aussies, but again he got out before he could make a sizable score. Needs to seriously rework his technique, he plays inside the line of the ball and if he keeps doing that he can forget about runs on lively wickets, i thought his technique in the champions trophy was acceptable but that too had a lack of footwork and it got found out against NZ.

I remember that match and it was anything but a rank turner.

There was a lot of juice, I agree, early on in the test.
But come 4th innings the pitch really did flatten down.

Credit to him for playing a good innings no doubt, but i'm sorry, conditions weren't so unfavourable for batsmen

1st innings total:
Pak 176
Lana 185

2nd innings total:
Lana 448
Pak 337 for 4

There was mositure and Asif was seaming it miles on the first day. But by the 4th-5th day it was a belter to bat on

that kind of one inning almost every body has played in thier lives once. even lower order and tailander batsmans have played one or two good inning in their career.

playing murali n co in sri lanka on 4th and 5th day is not a easy job.

I'm a Malik fan but I agree he looks out of place when batting in bowling friendly conditions, but who doesnt? We should stick with him, especially in the absence of YK

Which tailender have played a innings like this one?

Bhai it was a very good innings no doubt

But the fact remains, the pitch became a belter by the 4th day with all the moisture gone.

Just the fact that pro Malik fans have been able to come up with one innings in a career span now lasting 7-8 years is a shame.

Here are the scores of the top 5 batsmen of each team:
Srilanka:
Tharanga 70 odd
Sanath 20 odd
Sanga 185
Jayawarnded 82
Samaraweera 64

Pakistan:
Malik 148
Farhat 34
Younis 8
Bhanja 60
Inzi 48 not out

8 out of 10 top order batsmen scored heavily. This is not a fluke. I remember clearly it was a belter.
Playing Muralitharan is not easy- I agree. But the question is about conditions

you want bhanja to replace him? or mishap?

And who do you want to replace him with? Bhanja? No thanks. The fact is we have no other batsman in the team right now who can replace him and be consistent.

until yk is out i would open with fawad instead of farhat or manzoor, have misbah bat at 3 and have akmal snr at 6 and arafat at 7!!!!

If you want to go radical then this would be my team.

Farhat/Manzoor/Butt (Doesn't matter who plays. All are useless)
Akmal Sr.
Fawad
MoYo
Akmal Jr.
Misbah
Sarfaraz (WK)
Aamer
Gul/Rauf
Asif
Ajmal

Sarfaraz keeper, Kamran at 1st slip, Misbah at 2nd slip Umar at 3rd.

I am trying to be objective too...I dont hate malik. Unless he is proven to be a destructive force behind the scenes, i have absolutely no reason to hate him!

Its not so much about having a bad technique its showing how clueless he is when batting anywhere outside of asian conditions.

You have mentioned his average as an opener, but that was blown up from his one good knock against sri lanka in sri lanka on a slow wicket where, apart from the brilliance of asif, none of the other bowlers really excelled. Tell me, how many other knocks has he had as an opener in test matches? Moreover how many of those games were outside asia on faster, bouncier tracks??

Now, you may argue that he hasnt played enough test matches outside of asia or that he hasnt played enough test matches full stop and so its too early to judge. Well thats why I brought up your very own century, because to score one you should atleast have a decent knowledge of cricket! So if you do, and if you watched the recently concluded odi series in the Emirates, you'll know straight off that Malik is probably one of the poorest players of short bowling. If he can play so badly on a flat, slow track against a bowler bowling short at 125-128 kmh then how can he ever stand a chance on a quicker track, and against faster bowlers???

Then there are the numerous times when he has been showed up against swing and seam bowling. Amazing hand, eye coordination may get you out of trouble, bhut with the footwork Malik displays, he would have to have estonishing handeye cordination to score runs on a boucner track!

Again, you may say that most pakistany players have this fault. I would argue that Akmal Jnr has shown both the talent and the technique to be persisted with. Fawad Alam is young and has potential and should also be persisted with. With YK hopefully returning and MOYO being the only other worldclass batsman we have then who is Malik going to replace in the test match side? I would argue further that even misbah should be ahead of Malik because the one thing we really lack at the moment is a good slip fielder, and strangely enough Misbah could easily have been the difference between Nz having a lead of 98 or being 100 runs in arears!

so now we want Misbah instead of Malik, is it? is that the current scenario? funny, it was the exact opposite during the SL series

The only thing holding this team back to become a championship is inclusion of Shoaib Malik in every damn format.

I know, especially in T20 cricket!

He better otherwise he is also on the chopping blocks.

Knowing he is not playing in sub continent and has to contend with Bond and Vitori and not Harbi and Nehra I think it is highly unlikely that he can get the job done.

I would love it tough if he takes Pakistan to the win as that matters the most.h

Actually I would play 4 seamers plus ajmal in new zealand..5 bowlers is the way to go for me and its also the attacking option!

you do realise that the BATTING has been the problem, not the bowling?

urmmm...you seem to have missed out an important facet in all this..younis khan was playing in sri lanka and is not playing in new zealand and so everything changes!

so what? does it mean you drop a batsman who hit a 100 in his previous Test?

yes..yes i do...and do you realise how many our no.1, no.2, and no. 5 made in the first innings?

Do you recall Umar Gul bowling well but with no reward...that despite the drop catches the kiwis went onto make 400 odd with numbers 6 and 8 scoring heavily and putting up a huge partnership?? Do you recall my arguments with you that with three seamers, one or two may have an off day or just be plain unlucky and that a fourth seamer in these conditions gives you extra options? Do you realise the difference between conceding a 98 run lead or having a 100 run advantage in a test match and how the blowing composition can affect this?

NO..But you drop him for the next one unless he scores prodigously tomorrow!

Why? Because of all the reasons set out in my above threads!

Bowling hasn't been our achilles heel. It's the batting and ball catching. The team I suggested addresses both concerns.

Malik is not a batsman. People who think that he is, need to open their eyes to the reality.

the bowling did not let us down in this game mate, whicever way you try to look at it





then we should bring up a squad of 30 players then, just keep replacing the ones who might fail in a game or two

I agree that bowling is our strength and this is why we must play to our strength...Our succesful teams of the past have always had a fast bowling allrounder. The fourth seamer is so much more important then anyone realises..For one thing it takes the pressure of the present bowling line-up...Imagine if Gul, Amir or Asif had got injured during kiwis innings, what would have happened? You would have had Ajmal typing up one end with the two seamers taking turns to bowl at the other end...

It didnt happen in this match, but it can..

I am very much in favour of 4 seamers plus a spinner outside of asia...The fourth seamer should be a very good all rounder but in the absence of one I would go with Arafat. He has only played 4 test matches, all on dead wickets and has already taken a 5 fer and scored a fifty to averge 47 with the bat!

My opinion, we have to be positive and attack! An extra batsman is not going to make as much a difference as an extra fastbowling allrounder could!

From the above it is clear that you are not reading all my posts which means any discussions with you on this topic would be futile and meaningless.

The best way to get selected - is to get dropped, and then when the next guy fails - everyone demands your inclusion!

Mohd Sami Zindabad!

@ IMMY69

since you like living in the moment in your selection decisions, where was the need for the fourth seamer in the NZ 2nd innings?

sounds about right...no wonder our players aren't bothered when they get dropped

Ive carefully read the above thread - studied each & every arguement.

I have one question. Is Malik really married?