A Londoner’s View of Lahore

A Londoner’s View of Lahore
I was in Lahore recently on a one-week visit. The trip was an eye-opener for several reasons:

*The new airport - Lahore's Alama Iqbal International - is bright, clean and efficient. I had cleared immigration, baggage claim and customs in less than 20 minutes of my aircraft parking at the gate.

*A new domestic airline - AirBlue - seems to be the first decent attempt at giving the tired PIA some competition and the Pakistani public a genuine alternative since Pakistani aviation was deregulated many years back. AirBlue is emulating the business models of successful low cost carriers in Europe and the US such as JetBlue, Southwest and Ryanair by using one aircraft type, Internet based sales and a genuine low cost product. Despite the low fares the aircraft are clean, staff are genuinely friendly and fares are much cheaper than other existing Pakistani airlines.

*I took my wife to a local hairdressers - Muneeba - and whilst I was waiting outside, I could not believe the volume of business this hairdresser'was doing. Every single minute, a young lady would be chauffeured to the palour. Drivers would return an hour later to collect their passengers showing off their new hairstyles. But it was like...a new customer would appear after every minute. And they all looked like people one would normally expect to see in Beverley Hills, carrying their Louis Vitton purses and Gucci sunglasses. Only the sound of the rickshaws reminded me where I was. That place must be minting money.

*For the first time that I have known there is genuine optimism, in Lahore at least. Business is booming. People are making fortunes speculating on property and land. BMW has opened dealerships here - Mercedes will follow soon. Apparently simple, humble housewives have overnight become property dealers. Restaurants are of a high, consistent quality and are bursting with customers. Besides the Gymkhana and Punjab clubs, a new club has just opened - The Royal Palm? There is a fast growing middle-class, with huge spending power. There are Internet cafes, small coffee shops; most of the fast food chains have been here for a few years already - all that is missing is a Starbucks.

*The place feels like the center of a new gold rush, like the Wild West or like Silicon Valley in the late nineties. Everyone is talking business. TV media has exploded with appealing local channels aimed at business, lifestyle and cooking. This is in addition to the previous catalogue of PTV, ARY, GEO, and also international channels. The press seems much more open and as long as one is not too personal, constructive crticism and discussion of politics is very possible without worry. Barrister Ali Zaffer, who practices before the Supreme Court, has written several articles in the Daily Times criticizing the effectiveness of the NAB in Pakistan.

*Pakistan has benefited hugely from the lifting of export quotas on textiles and exports are now leading the growth. There is also as yet untapped huge scope to develop the country's agricultural potential.

*Car use has exploded with the introduction of leasing and finance options making ownership much more affordable. Most cars, although carrying foreign and mostly Japanese badges, are built locally bringing employment to the country. The result is that major traffic congestion has now become a daily fact of life and will only get worse unless major investment is forthcoming to expand the roads infrastructure.

*During dinner with some prominent political figures, it was interesting to hear how China needs Pakistan strategically in the long term and how this relationship will be key for Pakistan in the 21st Century. It is China that is pushing for development of Gwader as this port with its links to North Pakistan will reduce shipping times to China and greatly help develop trade. However, the Gwader project is meeting stiff resistance from the US which does not want China to get too much support. Dubai, Bandar Abbas in Iran and some Indian ports are also fearful of the competition from Gwader. All these parties would love to see Gwader fail. Plus Pakistan needs to balance the demands of the Chinese with those of its banker - the US. There are also the needs of the local Baloch people who are run by three tribal leaders that need to be taken into account.

*It was also gratifying to learn how many businessmen have also sponsored the funding of free schools for the poor. These schools are also providing books for their students.

*There was talk about how Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif squandered their opportunities to do good. Various stories about Benazir's mischief came to light including how she looted local museums, how international ambassadors were nothing more than stooges for her corrupt ways.
The obvious questions are: is this boom/growth sustainable in the medium to long term and what impact will the law and order situation have on it? No doubt the boom is very much linked to the present administration's ability to keep the international community happy and also its ability to stay in power. Another coup and the house of cards could come tumbling down. The law and order situation appears to being tackled in a half-hearted way. There are more police visible on the streets, there is a fleet of brand new US style police cars that patrol neighborhoods...but experience has shown that it is still easily possible to pay off a traffic cop to 'forget' about a traffic violation.
Only time will tell how this period of progress pans out. However, I have a feeling there is so much pull in the direction of growth - a strategic relationship with China; the cross-country gas pipeline deal with Iran - that it will be difficult to derail this galloping economy.

I am confident that very soon FORTUNE magazine, one of the most respected business journals in the US or TIME will be writing about the Pakistani economy in the same way they were writing about S. Korea or Taiwan 15 years ago. Pakistan just may be the next Asian Tiger. So if you are looking for opportunities, now is the time to get into Pakistan. This unique window of opportunity will not be here for long - perhaps 3-5 years at the most - and by the time you read about its success in the general press, the lowest hanging fruit will have been harvested.

nice article nice to know someone appreciting the benefits of Pak

Dont know what rich people in Mercs and expensive purses/hairdressors have anything to do with the man on the street - surely, these arent the signs of our progress !

Did the author see anything on the education/technological front ?

any link to the article ?

or Londoner = Londoner of Pak Origin ?
or londoner = Shoibonline ?

it's not suhaib article. it has gotta be some1

i wonder if the guy who wrote the article enjoyed the traffic in Lahore

no not by me, dnt know who its by.

why you all always pick on poor suhaib?

interesting article good to hear positive stuff about pakistan rather than all the negative stuff we mostly get.

Nope he probably had his eyes closed like Suhaib usually has, you will come to Lahore for Eid you can judge it by your self wether all the articles posted by suhaib are true or not, as far as I am concerned they are not true infact I think he usually writes about utopistan rather then Pakistan.

The existence of more junk food outlets such as McDonalds,KFC,Pizza Hut in Lahore is a sign of development?

The article is encouraging news of the economic boom in Pakistan. What scares me is the widening gap between the poor and the rich. Given the way the economic infrastructure works in Pakistan, the extremely poor have a snowball's chance in hell of joining this bandwagon of the rich, let alone the elite rich. The only way is through crime and illegal means.

dude, in no country the poor have a snowballs chance of joining the bandwagon of the rich, poverty has decreased sharply over the last few years, btw it is because of the rich that the poor are getting employment.

suhaib, I cant argue with that comment. I'd like to see Mushy make the environment more industry friendly. Increasing taxes is making it less profitable for investors. Look at China, they now make literally everything from safety pins to pc components.

well its a start and this is were china were in the 80's, if we keep the 8.6% growth rate for the next 5 years we could be a really developed country.

if ppl like nauman keep having fantasy dreams of seeing new york in pakistan over night, then forget it, some people are born arrogant.

5 yrs more like 25 yrs mate,

Malaysia will be the first muslim country to become a developed country and they say itwill take about 5-10 yrs.

They are investing in science and technology ..and keeping their best people in the country.

mate, i ment pakistan will be much more developed.

This is a major headache for Pakistan i.e. to retain skilled people and stop them from moving abroad.

i kinda knew u did..but clarify for everyone.

Suhaib dont give me that 8.6 percent figure because it has been overly inflated by that appaling inflation rate of ours.

do you even know what inflation is?

yes inflation is gone high, but do you even know why?

Inflation is a byproduct of high growth, since high growth means high income, which means high demand for goods and services, which means high prices.

True, that it is bad for the poor people at first, because they feel the effects of "high prices" before they can experience the "high income" phase which comes with it. So thats why,

inflation is a side effect of high growth. Demand is going up, whereas the supply is not matching up with the demand, the prices have to go up.

we have still have alot of poverty, but that isnt gona finish in one day like nauman dreams of, It is a consecutive series of Growth rate like this one which will eventually eliminate poverty.

I think suhaib comes in for far too much of unnecessary criticism for his virgin-eyed optimism regarding his country. I have rarely seen someone this positive abuot the country of ours and it is heartening, i assure you. yes he is off the mark a few times but so are the pessimists.

I must confess I enjoy reading Suhaibs posts on what developments are happening in Pakistan and what future plans there are for the country. Keep them coming Suhaib.

Comma as I said in the other thread he can be as positive as he wants to be but tell him to come and live in Pakistan if its so good and then be positive, sitting across the 2000 miles will not do any good.

Suhaib I very well know what inflation and yes I know that inflation arises when growth is high but 10-12 percent inflation is just rediculous even government says that its abnormal and has nothing to do with growth. The fact that government is issuing a 20 Rs note and a 5000 Rs note which clearly means that value of money is taking a nose dive here.

Just one word if you expats think that Pakistan is doing so well then please come and live here and then talk sitting across the border will not do Pakistan nor you any hood.

Saj yar do you think building two high rise plazas (according to Suhaib that is development) will solve our problem? People die in cities (let alone villages) because they are not provided simple things like clean water and usable sanitation facilties. Building 20 story high rise for a segment of population will not do the country any good unless masses are atleast provided with basic necessities of life.

i come to pakistan all the time, but i will be moving there soon.

and were did you get th 10-12% figure from, its gone to 8.8% mate. and with the pakistan economy boom just started that is understandable.

and its not only people sitting out of pakistan who say pakistan is doing well, there a tons of people in pakistan too.

dude its more like 500, and yes that will solve our problem,

real estate is done by the private not by the goverment, so dnt give me any of that rubbish why arnt they using that money for water or poverty.

and people arnt just dieing because that, they are also dieing because of unemployment, and thats what the construction industry is finishing, currently the construction industry is the highest employer in pakistan, it was what USA, UK and UAE battered there poverty with and what china is doing, so why cant pakistan.

Growth rates are calculated using real GDP (base year). Inflation is thus not a factor.

suhaib u got a link to this article.... i mean u didnt write it word for word...

cos i remember u talking about the car lease shaninigans only last week...

In Suhaib's defense, he is saying it will take a few years but the path is being compassed properly. That much is almost undeniable, yes?

You need to study economic survey of Pakistan the over all rate of inflation is 8.8 percent but the rate of inflation on items of every day necesseties is 10-12 percent. Go to dawn website and news website and dig news papers of past one month you will see what I am talking about when I say people died becuase they were not given clean drinking water.

Nauman i donno what in the world is your point. there are are poor people in each and every country of teh world. including USA, Canada, UK and all. Still these countries are considered as developed countries.

As far as i know Inflation is not a factor in calculating the GDP of a country.

For the builiding high rises and roads, yes, it does help poor and lower middle class people. You know how? it gives employment to a lot of people including Engineers, architects to unskilled laborers. Tell me one developed country that does not have high rises. May be you common sense will tell you that all the developed counties some things in common, high rises, better highways and transportation systems, subways and such.

just stop being such a pessimist mate. there is hope for us out there.

Pak is making progress slowly and it's good sign but one thing is that we need to maintain it. At moment even Pak making any progress, international media and business mags not writing much about Pak positively.
if ppl wanna stay negative, it's up to them . U don't expect Pak to b on top in matter of days after so many bad years. progress is been made and it ll effect common ppl slowly as well.
at moment projects of highways are there when it ll b completed, fruit and veggies ll b available in market much earlier than b4 and common man ll get much better price than b4.

As for drinking water is conerned, yes, there is problem but listen wat Govt. is saying, they are providing clean water all over Pak and project ll b completed by 2007

Hope for you? well you are living abroad what are you talking about.

wohi gissa pita jawab

oh bhai living abroad is not bed of roses as well as u think. there are much more problems as well which you don't even think when living in Pak in your own country.
pl living abroad often do 2 jobs to make good money. I have freind who do loading and unloading stuff. Their job often finish as 3-4am and then htey have to get back to work 8:00am next morning and not 2 forget cooking/washing clothes and other kinda stuff for guys who are living alone abroad.

well for those people interested.

kse is back on fire.
KSE Index
Current 8529.12
Change 102.35
Volume 156459460

oil prices are also going down and have droped $3 per barrel over last 3 days and are expected at $50 per barrel in december.

Pakistan lays groundwork for sustained growth: World Bank


LONDON (October 05 2005): World Bank's Country Director for Pakistan, John Wall said here late Monday that Pakistan had successfully laid the groundwork for a 'sustained growth and poverty reduction' in the country.
He was speaking at a reception hosted by the Pakistan Society in honour of Governor State Bank Dr Ishrat Hussain here which was attended by Pakistan's High Commissioner to Britain Dr Maleeha Lodhi, bankers and businessmen including Steve Chesan senior Portfolio Manager Moore Capital Management, Jeremy Thort Director Bankirxj Association and Iain Pickard Marsh Marsh Insurance, Chief Insurance Operating Officer.

John Wall praised President Musharraf's government for its success in restoring the investors' confidence and billed it a 'great success' adding there had been a tidal change in the past five years from the situation inherited by it.

"Improving investors confidence was one of the major goals of this Government that has been met with great success," said Wall and added there had been progressive rise in Pakistan's external credit ratings.

He said there had been rapid rise in imports of investment and intermediate goods that was pushing the import growth rate to 33percent or more.

Referring to the steps taken by the Government, Wall said GDP had grown to over 6 per cent and foreign exchange reserves grew from negligible to more than four months of imports. Domestic borrowing interest rates had fallen from 16 percent or more to less than 10 percent. Public debt had fallen from around 100 percent to about 60 percent. The official said that continuity of the policy during last five years had reduced trade protection and had improved the business environment while the low interest rates had resulted in an increase in both domestic and foreign investment.

He praised the privatisation policy of the Government and said the commercial banks were growing both their business and their profits with astounding results.

Wall said the deregulation of the telecom sector and sale of PTCL had produced an explosion of players; mobile phones, cable television, radio stations, Internet service providers and many others.

Sustaining GDP growth of above 6 percent per annum and reducing poverty from 35 percent to 13 percent in the next 10 years would bring about a social transformation that would throw Pakistan into a fit of modernisation, he added.

John Wall also praised Punjab's educational reforms saying it was getting good results in terms of dramatic enrolment by a comprehensive program of rehabilitation of schooling and providing better incentives.

I am not talking about bed of roses all I am saying is that expats have no right to call me pesemistic when they cant themself live in Pakistan.

On a side note inshallah I will not live in Pakistan and the day I leave Pakistan I will stop calling myself a Pakistani.

Nauman, dont mind me asking.

Are you a Benazir Bhutto supporter?

good to hear youll leave pakistan and i hope the rest of the pesemistics do is well. Instead of dreaming of new york coming in pakistan you should just move there yourself.

Nauman wouldnt last one year in the WEST.

Money doesnt go on trees here my friend and neither do you have much to save either.

Bills and taxes you name it.

We even pay around 1200 pounds per year for council tax if I'm correct. Thats for having our Rubbish collected once a week etc.

Nauman, it is realtive stupidity when you have a chemical engineering degree and there is no job in pakistan related to your degree which you can get.

The fact is that prior to Musharraf's rule, pak was only in a decline and therefore ppl needed to get out in order to obtain a decent living after all the hard work they put into their studies.

Now, the trend is slowly changing, and you cannot expect all expat paks to return home immediately. As the infrastructure grows, so will the deamnd for jobs in related industries. People living in pak at the moment with degrees but without jobs will get hired first, once the local pakistani labour market has been saturated, only then will the exapts return home.

Its not a blink of an eye process. It will take time, the same way as pak's overall development and the development of the poor will take time.

^^^^

i have been telling him it in every post, but he expects everything to happen in one night.

And one thing that many paks dont understand is that development will take time. Many expect 5-10 yrs to be adequate for Pakistan to go from what it is now, to another booming economy like Hong Kong's which is now a newly industralised country. The fact is that it will take atleast 15 yrs for pak to be at the same level as China is at now.

In malaysia, when it gained independance in 1957, 80% of the population lived in jungles and villages. Then came along Mahathir Mohammad and in 1980, he set out a 40 year development plan named Wawasan 2020, which translated means vision 2020. According to the plan, Malaysia would go from a jungle land to being a full developed country by the year 2020. Come 2005, and they are doing excellent.

But they realised that it will take time and there is NO point fighting with each other. Pakistanis living in pak talk like pak is the only country in the world experiencing such high inflation. Fact is, the economical situation of the world today is very unstable and the major factory for even basic inflation today is the rocketing oil prices, which govt's can very seldom control. The inflation rate has risen in Malaysia too, but do you see ppl blaming the govt? NO! Why? Because the average man is smart enough to know that their govt can only do very little, and fighting with each other wont get them anywhere.

Just give pak 5 yrs more, and things will BEGIN to shape up and ppl like Nauman can probably breathe a little more.

According to Suhaib there are tons of jobs in Pakistan and here you are talking about unemployment?

Muddy no I am not a Benazir Bhutto supporter. The reason why I hate Pakistan is because people are 3rd class and look for short cuts, more importantly people are too nosy here they dont mind their own business just because they cant do something they think its their duty to make sure others cant do that either. They dont look at what they are doing but are more concerned with what others are doing. Untill someone himself comes and lives in Pakistan he has no right whatso ever to call me a pesemistic, suhaib once you start living in Pakistan slap me on my face and call me pesemistic but if you do that before I will take offense in that.

I find this strange that you guys are ganging up on Nauman - just because he has stated some home truths !

As far our progress, we are now falling in the same "eye candy" trap - nice shiny buildings conveniently hiding a sick society behind it. People are materialistic - the rich getting richer - the poor getting poorer - and we call this progress ? Our Muslim brothers and sisters dont have have proper public transport ( little things that us in the West take for granted and conveniently forget to mention when we talk about hardships of living outside Pakistan ) but we are happy that people habe BMWs and Mercs etc to drive in !

As they say in Pakistan - "hazrat, apna Qibla durust farmiyaay" - get your direction right , then worry about little things.

Most of India drives around in battered old Ambassadors yet check with Moody's - and they will tell you that Indias Country Risk rating is much better than Pakistans !

As Nauman pointed out, Pakistanis have a habit of looking for shortcuts - hard graft isnt in our dictionary - Its the get rich overnight idea that we have and feel proud of!

In the original article, did the author see the number of homeless kids running around these rich cars, begging for food etc ? How is that sign of progress?

When I was in Lahore about 2 yrs back, I saw little children ( 5 or less ) walking around on the streets ( in the West these kids would be in school or they are termed truant )sniffing glue/spirit from broken water bottles ! How is that progress ?

I am not a pessimist - my family ( and Naumans family too ) has sacrificed a lot for Pakistan - more so than you would ever imagine and we are proud of it. But we are not blind - lets recognize our shortcomings first, then talk about answers and progress.

MIG

i dont understand how we can make progress if every step forward is maligned with criticism

progress has to start from somewhere (and most likely from the rich)

if the rich dont progress how do you expect the poor to progress?

it is true that our country is far from being the finished article but let us celebrate even a baby step forward rather than moan over the shortcomings of the rest of the country

it is like the argument used against lahore when nawas sharif spent all of Pubnjab's budget on Lahore alone. Progress has to be started from somewhere...and why not the capital of the region? But the people didnt care for the fact that it took Britain over a hundred years of industrial revolution to modernise...they just want to see results...

it is a shameful typical pakistani attitude that we start to complain and criticise without showing any signs of pateince

be patient, bhaiyyo, Pakistan will not become developed overnight

so, let us celebrate even the erection of the so called 'eye candy'...it may not be the acid test of a developed nation...but atleast it is on the way there...

pakistan is in a better position now then ever before...and we still liek to criticise

But the question Z10, is that are we on the right track to progress ? If the signs of progress are shiny new cars, this IS "eye candy" -

Look at Indias slow and steady progress and learn from it!

We are moving in the right direction and I am happy for Pakistan but lets always be realistic and try and keep our feet on the ground!

BTW, I would be more pleased to hear of our scientific/Techological achievements - anyone got news on that ?

so are you saying having shiny new cars is a step backwards?

there are alot of things which are making pakistan progress and you are ignoring them?.

Yes - its is - with a poulation the size of Pakistan - the number of increasing cars with little improvements in public transports in large cities is asking for a Environmental disaster of the worst kind ! We have no emission control policy to speak off, yet we are happily increasing the number of vehickes on the road!

I am not ignoring them but I am merely commenting on the original article you posted where the author is listing the number of people visiting an expensive hairdressor as a sign of progress.

there is huge improvements being made in the public transport system, there is a maglev and a monorail for karachi lahore to be made by 2007, there are new bus services opening up, do you call that little improvements.

and yes that is a sign of progress because businesses are opening and developing, i dnt think that hairdresser was getting that amount of customors five years ago, it just shows how businesses have boomed over the last few years in pakistan.

or atleast it shows that the amount of disposable income available to the upper/middle class is on the up. sign of economic progress it is, as are shiny cars and mcdonalds restaurants. what we need then is a balance between both economic and social progress?

social progress can only follow economic progress

it cannot lead the way

tho, i agree...that materialism should be reined in as far as possible

as i said before once the rich benefits everyone benefits,

there aren't many successful economies that manage to check materialism though. a very common human failing.

ofcourse, failure is also intrinsic to humans...

so why, oh Miggy, do we single out Pakistan for the shiny cars and hairdressers ?

Didnt know Margaret Thatcher joined PakPassion, do you have her soul in your body? because she used to give out this type of crap on capitalism. Make the rich richer and everything will be ok itself duh I wonder why for last three periods labour party has been in power because of Thatcher's crap was so successfull I am sure Brits would have elected her party again.

If you want a a capitialistic society then take everything from it not bits ane pieces and malign it with fundamental stupid Islamic beliefs (what our government does) and make a mockery out of the whole system.

Z10 the point of development is that masses should benefit, according to Economic survey of Pakistan (produced by your beloved government) 70 percent of population still lives in villages. Tell me how many McDonalds have opened in villages? How many new shiny car plants have been setup in villages? How many multi story real estate projects have started in villages? None none at all. 900 billion Rs worth of budget is spent on development for 10 percent of your population and you call that growth? You know ask leaders of any developed country USA, UK, Japan etc they will tell you that development started from roots not from the top, top down development is superficial and fragile and the whole thing is bound to collapse down.

Gasher what middle class are you talking about? Middle class in Pakistan is the most opressed class they have been smashed in between rich and poor a very small propotion have joined rich but the mojority have moved towards lower middle class or lower class. Dont confine yourself to defense Lahore because that is not even 10 percent of what Lahore is.

Lets leave those two issues aside and Ill wait for you people to start bashing me on those too. Another point there is absolutely nothing Pakistani here in Pakistan. Everything is imported even a sewing needle. Yet we are going ahead? We had a handfull industries which were proud property of Pakistan but they have been privatized and given to foreigners.

India went about growth the right way and that is the only way there is to make your country stand on its own feet and make it self suffiecient. India closed itself to all imports and tried to make everything itself. Look at India now every brand it has is capable of competing in international market. Do we have anything like that? Nothing I can say.

Currently Pakistan is just a dump for all international market if you people want to be proud of that achievment then so be it? I dont consider it something to be so proud of.

ok, so lets get rid of the rich, im sure nauman saab can give everyone in pak a job and businesses are gone fall from the skys and land into pakistan.

its like it goes in one ear and comes out the other, try and hang on to it.

You may put it down solely to my dislike of shiny cars....!!

And I aint proud of it, but I was thinking about this thread during Taraweeh tonite !!! Allah Maaf karay - PP has taken over my life !

this is the point when you hand over your moderator tag to a younger PPer

and retire peacefully in the carribean

What businesses are you talking about 80 percent of our direct tax revenue comes from taxes paid by multinationals so what businesses by rich are you talking about. They just make money and put them up in their foreign bank accounts hardly anything is invested in Pakistan.

Z10 - you seem to think that there is some monetory gain involved here !! I think my next move after PP will be a mental asylum ( does Caribbean have those )....

im shocked you consider me so shallow

for the record i was concerned about your mental health

- nasty, nasty - Let me now call my main protector Monsee for some help here....

hahahah

thats the best joke youve said all day

let me rub the lamp vigorously....

80%, is that figure from the nauman state bank


nothing is invested in pak?

who is buying all these propertys and making these real estate developments then

who is making all these new factorys, software houses, gwadar etc

by any chance is it by you? all of it


dude just go and checkout the turnover of MCB, habib bank, bank alfalah and come back and say the same thing,

if no one invests in pakistan and puts there money in there bank accounts i dnt think foreign bank companies would be coming to pakistan.

Good for you, also do tell me on day ppl of that country accept u as one of them.

as for India making progress, they are doing for 2-3 dacades now and we started investing in everything for only 2-3 yrs. and everything ll take time and will effect common man as well.

Also in India ppl still have same problem of clean water, safety etc etc.
even ppl from abroad going to India for operations it's mainly because of low cast. the opertaion which cost US$150,000 it cost US$30,000 in India but at same time ppl of india don't have basic facilities in same feild. Even in Dlhi hospitals, doctors are missing, ppl have to wait whole day.
ppl are not safe either. only in Delhi there were 26 rape cases in Aug 2005 only.
4get abt corrupt politians. every month there is rail accedent in some part of country .

the same problems are with china and every country in Asia. it's not only in Pak.hundred killed every month in China in mines. western ppl keep their credit cards, money, chains and watches in Hong Kong when they visit China because of safety reasons.

And Taha as u mention Hong Kong as new emerging country, it's not NEW. HK is on rise for many decades now. HK get money mainly bcoz working as middle country between China & West. All the goods are been shipped to HK first and then to west. and it's tourisism is high all the time and now there ll b increase in tourism industry coz of Disney Land here in HK

Cr@p
i wrote a lengthy reply which i accidently deleted
will have to keep it short now

1) i will never have a go at Nauman cos he lives in Pakistan - he sees the harsh reality -
2) Suhaib and Co have a blinkered view cos they live 6000 miles away - you dont see the harsh realities that Nauman does
3) you say you will move to pakistan BUT i dont believe it - its the josh talking
4) this country (UK) has its negatives BUT the quality of life is far better than Pak
5) i aint no economist BUT is the speed of growth in pak worrying? or is it a normal thing???

Would like to say that the comment "the rich have to get richer for the poor to benefit" (to the nearest meaning) is the most BS thing i have heard

its more better to take an opinion from someone who has lived in pakistan and outside pakistan, when nauman moves abroad i would love to hear what he has to say about pakistan then.

and you are acting like every person in pakistan thinks like nauman, please get that misunderstanding out of your mind.



ok then can you please enlighten us on who makes employment, strenghtens economy, makes investments etc,

china, south korea, taiwan, malaysia all got to were they are now because of the rich in there countrys,

Yes everyone in Pakistan does think about me, online Pakistani communities are filled with over optimistic Pakistani expats. There are currently two Pakistanis (living in Pakistan) posting in time pass me and Hussain if you think I am a nut case then by all means ask Hussain's opinion I am sure it would be no different.

Well Nauman
if u r living in Pak, I am damn sure u r not directly connected with workers in villages, town and small cities. their standard of lifes can not b changed completely overnight. for them wat govt. is doing, they are making roads and highways so their products such as fruits and vegitables get into market in time and in good condition and they get higher price because of better quality. Now if they get higher price, surely that will change the life as well.

ppl keep being negative and keep sitting at home, nothing ll get. One of my freind in Pak is doing nothing even doing BCS but other freind earing around RS20,000 after getting same education. differnce is one is hoping for high salary job directly and other is going to ppl home for tution for comp.

We all know how you get jobs in Pakistan Asim dont kid yourself, if my father has infulence I can get a 30k job easily even after my A levels, I know people who have that. So lets look at the reality.

I know that exactly so but at sametime there are positives aswell happening in Pak at moment which you totally ignore. everything is changing slowly and it ll take time and it ll be effective when every citizen ll think in positive way.
jst take your own example, if educated & young man like u keep on critising all the time, wat ll happen ?

I dont understand why people find it difficult to understand that some Pakistanis ( like Indians,Bangladeshis etc ) are fed up with their lives in these countries ?

Life is very tough here - where you need to worry about electricity and water on a 24 hour basis - you cannot call that a great place to live. This is what we, in the West, take for granted.

We go for our little holidays in Pak - and we have a great time - and we come back with great pics and memories - but people who we leave behind would love to exchange their lives with you! Just check the queues at UK and US consulates and you will know what I mean.

But does that mean that I dont believe Pak will make it thru ? NO - it has and it will - we just need to be realistic in what we see. It takes nations eons to improve themselves and Pakistan is no different - so , pls stop criticizing people who are fed up of the constant struggle in day to day life in Pak - we have a long way to go and looking at short term gains and marking them as signs of "oh yeah , we've made it" will not help our cause.

Fed up with life at age of 19 (if that his correct age ).

2ndly what we are saying that Pak is making progress at moment and b positive.
ppl worrying of electricity and water bill, rn't that the same situation in India as well where u guys keep praising India ?

How does Pakistan benefit from you being positive 6000 miles away?
As far as me being fed of like at the age of 19 is concerned, no I am not fed up I thank Allah that I get to live a life better then what 99 percent of Pakistanis live but I know people (close relatives) who have been first hand victims of this corrupt nation.

You left Pakistan to get a better living somewhere right? why werent you so positive then? Typical Pakistani mentality if you ask me, the bottom line is pehle apne gireban mein ghanko phir doosron ko dekho.

Nauman you have hit the nail on the head
they have a go at you for your pessimism (unfairly imo) BUT them sitting 6000 miles positively does jack for Pakistan - if you think the country is so developed and all hunky dory then please return - you are of no use to pakistan 6000 miles away