China Province Bans Muslim Officials and Students From Fasting...

[shaykh1985]

Lol I guess China oppressing Muslims doesn't really bother people...I get the feeling this would have got a slightly different reaction if this was a less friendly country...selective anger is the worst kind...

Authorities in China's restive northwestern region of Xinjiang have banned Muslim officials and students from fasting during Ramadan, prompting an exiled rights group to warn of new violence. Guidance posted on numerous government websites called on Communist Party leaders to restrict Muslim religious activities during the holy month, including fasting and visiting mosques. Xinjiang is home to around nine million Uighurs, a Turkic speaking, largely Muslim ethnic minority, many of whom accuse China's leaders of religious and political persecution. The region has been rocked by repeated outbreaks of ethnic violence, but China denies claims of repression and relies on tens of thousands of Uighur officials to help it govern Xinjiang. A statement from Zonglang township in Xinjiang's Kashgar district said that "the county committee has issued comprehensive policies on maintaining social stability during the Ramadan period. "It is forbidden for Communist Party cadres, civil officials (including those who have retired) and students to participate in Ramadan religious activities." The statement, posted on the Xinjiang government website, urged party leaders to bring "gifts" of food to local village leaders to ensure that they were eating during Ramadan. Similar orders on curbing Ramadan activities were posted on other local government websites, with the educational bureau of Wensu county urging schools to ensure that students do not enter mosques during Ramadan. The holy month began in Xinjiang on July 20. The orders to curb religious activities were sent out across the region at different times, some before the start of Ramadan and some afterwards. During Ramadan, Muslims fast from dawn to dusk and strive to be more pious and charitable. An exiled rights group, the World Uyghur Congress, warned the policy would force "the Uighur people to resist (Chinese rule) even further." "By banning fasting during Ramadan, China is using administrative methods to force the Uighur people to eat in an effort to break the fasting," said group spokesman Dilshat Rexit in a statement. Xinjiang saw its worst ethnic violence in recent times in July, 2009, when Uighurs attacked members of the nation's dominant Han ethnic group in the city of Urumqi, sparking clashes in which 200 people from both sides died, according to the government.

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsCont...e-Xinjian.aspx

[amateurdentist]

It is hypocritical when we criticize isreal and india but conveniently forget russia and china. both of these nations are equally oppressive on their muslim citizens

[LongHorn]

China is Pakistans ally , so its ok for them to stop govt workers fasting.

[insaan]

Expecting the posters who say "their country, their laws", to support this action too.

[Ismailtoca]

Dont understand how this would be carried out?

If they are not eating how do you find out?

Even with the food gifts, once you give it to them, they can eat it (while fasting) to show that they aren't fasting, and also keep the fasts through out the month

Should be allowed to break fast since otherwise they would be persecuted

[shaykh1985]

Originally Posted by Ismailtoca Dont understand how this would be carried out? If they are not eating how do you find out?

It is indeed difficult to enforce...it seems however that the idea is to force them to eat...

[Ismailtoca]

Originally Posted by amateurdentist It is hypocritical when we criticize isreal and india but conveniently forget russia and china. both of these nations are equally oppressive on their muslim citizens

I would not say equally oppressive. This pales in comparison to the crimes that Israel has done against Palestinians.

But should also be criticized

[spinDoc]

Originally Posted by insaan Expecting the posters who say "their country, their laws", to support this action too.

Oh .. you expect us to be fair....... Dream on..

[Kwremb]

Originally Posted by insaan Expecting the posters who say "their country, their laws", to support this action too.

Of course their country their laws, oh wait....

[KingKhanWC]

Originally Posted by shaykh1985 It is indeed difficult to enforce...it seems however that the idea is to force them to eat...

How?

If this news is indeed true and only aimed at certain people(officials and students) it still has to be condemned. There are around 20 million Muslims in China, reports of them enjoying Ramadan without restrictions. I would take this news with a pinch of salt.

[Black Zero]

Do Pakistanis got any moral ground to condemn such actions as Pakistan is one of the worst place for minorities?

[shaykh1985]

Originally Posted by KingKhanWC How? If this news is indeed true and only aimed at certain people(officials and students) it still has to be condemned. There are around 20 million Muslims in China, reports of them enjoying Ramadan without restrictions. I would take this news with a pinch of salt.

Out of interest do you take the standard position that some Pakistanis take which is China does well by its minorities? ...

[Dolphins]

Imagine if it was Israel or America, internet Muslim warriors would have declared jihaaaaad on them but since its China, lets all become blind.

[UP]

KKWC, do you get paid to defend Muslims?

Our own house is a mess, and you are always seen running around picking up after Muslims.

[KingKhanWC]

Originally Posted by shaykh1985 Out of interest do you take the standard position that some Pakistanis take which is China does well by its minorities? ...

Well there have Muslim generals in the Chinese army going back hundreds of years.

But...for the sake of stoping diversion...

Let's discuss this issue at hand. You wrote "t seems however that the idea is to force them to eat..."

How? This is crucial to the story, how the ban would be enforced. Are the Chinese going to literally stuff the mouths of Muslims with food and then water board them?

Let's take a news story about Ramadan from a Chinese news source, Al-Jazeera and other sources which have likely copied this story from them aren't the gospel of a Prophet as far as I know.

XINING, July 20 (Xinhua) -- More than 20 million Chinese Muslims on Friday celebrated the first day of the one-month Ramadan festival across China. In the 600-year-old Dongguan Mosque, located in Xining, provincial capital of northwest China's Qinghai province, tens of thousands of Muslims entered and gathered there to attend the morning prayer on Friday. "The month of Ramadan is the greatest and most revered month for Muslims, and the prayer on the first day is also extremely important," said Ma Yongliang, who runs a logistics company in Xining city. Han Jing, 17, said she would get up at 3 a.m. every morning during Ramadan to prepare food for her family. Han said she would stay with other women at home, while the men would go to the mosque during the month. Even though they will suffer from fast, she believes that's a way to get closer to Allah. During Ramadan, the ninth month of a year in the Muslim calendar, the Muslims refrain from eating, drinking, smoking and sex from sunrise to sunset. But children, the elderly and the weak do not have to observe the fast. Ma insists to pray five times every day, and follows the business rules of integrity and trustworthiness according to Islam. "We have been abiding with the sermons of the Koran for centuries. Although our lives have undergone rapid changes, we still hold strong faith," Ma said. Thanks to the support of the Chinese government, the ethnic groups in the impoverished western areas have developed their dominant industries in recent years, slowly eradicating poverty. In Ningxia Hui autonomous region, one of the main Muslim-populated regions, the predominantly Muslim Hui ethnic group developed the Halal food industry. In 2011, the Halal food industry in Ningxia generated an output value of 10.3 billion yuan (1.6 billion U.S. dollars), up 13 percent from a year ago. And the total output value of the Halal food industry in this region is expected to reach 20 billion yuan by 2015. In a branch plant of Qinghai Yijia Buhala Nation Fashion China Co., Ltd., located in Hui-Tu autonomous county of Datong in Qinghai province, the homegrown Muslim traditional cap and clothing have been exported around the world. "I can not only take care of children and elderly people in my family, but also do some work at home which I get paid for," said Han Yan, a worker of the plant, adding that the work never affected her worship. "Female Muslims could hardly earn money in the past, but the work is conducive to raise the status of a female in a family," said Han Decheng, president of the company. Moreover, in the Hui autonomous county of Hualong, more than 67,000 practitioners went out and opened over 10,000 restaurants selling traditional Hui food, such as hand-pulled noodles. But for most Muslims, their biggest dream is to go to Mecca, Saudi Arabia, their holiest city. "Some elders in my family have been there, and I should realize my dream as well," said Ma. In 1997, the first chartered plane for Chinese pilgrims flew from Beijing to Jeddah, an important gateway to Mecca. Direct chartered flights later linked Beijing, Lanzhou, Urumqi, Yinchuan, and Kunming to Medina, the second holiest city, which is north of Mecca. According to statistics, more than 13,800 Chinese pilgrims went to Mecca in 2011

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/ch..._123448925.htm

Chinese must be confused as how they want to treat Muslims, right?

[UP]

Originally Posted by Black Zero Do Pakistanis got any moral ground to condemn such actions as Pakistan is one of the worst place for minorities?

No, you are wrong. Minorities are fine in Pakistan and Pakistan is one of the good nation for minorities to live in :kkwc

[amateurdentist]

Originally Posted by Black Zero Do Pakistanis got any moral ground to condemn such actions as Pakistan is one of the worst place for minorities?

you are supposed to condemn oppression no matter what the situation and who is responsible

[shaykh1985]

Originally Posted by KingKhanWC Well there have Muslim generals in the Chinese army going back hundreds of years. But...for the sake of stoping diversion... Let's discuss this issue at hand. You wrote "t seems however that the idea is to force them to eat..." How? This is crucial to the story, how the ban would be enforced. Are the Chinese going to literally stuff the mouths of Muslims with food and then water board them? Let's take a news story about Ramadan from a Chinese news source, Al-Jazeera and other sources which have likely copied this story from them aren't the gospel of a Prophet as far as I know. http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/ch..._123448925.htm Chinese must be confused as how they want to treat Muslims, right?

Lol now whos trying to divert...read the title of the thread...

Does it say China or Chinese province?...I believe the article produce deals specifically with Xinjiang...it doesn't suggest anything about the whole of China which as I'm sure you know is not the tiniest of places...

The issue exists in Xinjiang...so why produce an article on Qinghai?...thats a poor refutation...if your going to produce a source then at the very least produce one that actually discusses what is being spoken about which is the Uighur's in Xinjiang...

And your being a little careless taking a nations mouthpiece as gospel are you not?...so onto the next question cos your source has an answer on this too...

So lets ask a more direct question...do you believe Uighur's are treated well in Xinjiang?...

[Black Zero]

Originally Posted by amateurdentist you are supposed to condemn oppression no matter what the situation and who is responsible

ok, i am waiting ...

please condemn the act of demolishing Qadyani's mosque by Pakistani officials...

[KingKhanWC]

Originally Posted by shaykh1985 Lol now whos trying to divert...read the title of the thread... Does it say China or Chinese province?...I believe the article produce deals specifically with Xinjiang...it doesn't suggest anything about the whole of China which as I'm sure you know is not the tiniest of places... The issue exists in Xinjiang...so why produce an article on Qinghai?...thats a poor refutation...if your going to produce a source then at the very least produce one that actually discusses what is being spoken about which is the Uighur's in Xinjiang...

You miss the point, Muslims in China do have rights. If Hui Muslims do and Uyghurs muslims are discriminated, logic and common sense would suggest it's not religious discrimination but ethnic. Readers can be easily confused if not pointed out esp if your opening line is "I guess China oppressing Muslims doesn't really bother people.." Must have forgot to mention the area, I guess.

And your being a little careless taking a nations mouthpiece as gospel are you not?...so onto the next question cos your source has an answer on this too... So lets ask a more direct question...do you believe Uighur's are treated well in Xinjiang?...

lol, of course there is ethnic discrimination against them. That's why I condemned the news if true on my very first post. To suggest somehow China discriminates only against Muslims throughout is highly inaccurate. China also discriminates against many other ethnic minorities. This is China, it doesn't discriminate when it comes to discrimination based on religion.

You've yet to tell me how they are going to enforce this? I haven't ducked your question, so why quack quack at mine?

[spinDoc]

Originally Posted by Black Zero ok, i am waiting ... please condemn the act of demolishing Qadyani's mosque by Pakistani officials...

But qadyanis dont count...........neither does shia or hindus ...or christens.

[amateurdentist]

Originally Posted by Black Zero ok, i am waiting ... please condemn the act of demolishing Qadyani's mosque by Pakistani officials...

if that place of worship was legally built then ofcourse it is wrong.
if christians are allowed to construct churches, jews synagogues(in theory) and hindus temples, then if that place of worship was legally built then it is wrong

[Looney]

Muslims should follow the laws of the country they live in . I guess they will still get the sawab .

How do the authorities know who is fasting anyway ?

[spinDoc]

[QUOTE=Looney;5005455]Muslims should follow the laws of the country they live in . I guess they will still get the sawab .

How do the authorities know who is fasting anyway ?[/QUOTE]

By their attitude

[Geordie Ahmed]

If true then this is absurd and ridiculous


Also I have to say this recent trend on PP where people talk about "Oh let's see what Muslims say now" "Oh Muslims don't care about this etc etc" is pretty pathetic and quite frankly I think it says more about their own attitudes towards the issue at hand

[Looney]

[QUOTE=spinDoc;5005459]

Originally Posted by Looney Muslims should follow the laws of the country they live in . I guess they will still get the sawab . How do the authorities know who is fasting anyway ?[/QUOTE] By their attitude

I don`t know how that changes TBH . I live in Canada and people here can`t tell until I make it known . I don`t even like to tell people I`m fasting because everyone will be saying sorry when having something to eat or drink . Can be annoying .

[insaan]

Originally Posted by Looney I don`t know how that changes TBH . I live in Canada and people here can`t tell until I make it known . I don`t even like to tell people I`m fasting because everyone will be saying sorry when having something to eat or drink . Can be annoying .

A few posters said that eating in the presence of Muslims who are fasting is insulting to them. I never looked at it that way. So I asked my colleague in an apologetic manner of eating at my desk. He said it is not a problem at all, but I could see he was a bit annoyed. He said I am not so intolerant, or weak in my faith.

I should have trusted my common sense instead of listening to those posters.

[pakistanalltheway]

Absolute BS

[Looney]

Originally Posted by insaan A few posters said that eating in the presence of Muslims who are fasting is insulting to them. I never looked at it that way. So I asked my colleague in an apologetic manner of eating at my desk. He said it is not a problem at all, but I could see he was a bit annoyed. He said I am not so intolerant, or weak in my faith. I should have trusted my common sense instead of listening to those posters.

I guess it differs from person to person then . Even thinking that they shouldn`t eat in front of a person who hasn`t eaten since morning is enough for me , and I appreciate it , while others maybe offended .

I think that is the whole point of fasting , it really tests you and you understand what people who can`t eat have to go through . There maybe food all around them but they may not have the money or they can`t eat or drink for health reasons .

[shaykh1985]

Originally Posted by KingKhanWC You miss the point, Muslims in China do have rights. If Hui Muslims do and Uyghurs muslims are discriminated, logic and common sense would suggest it's not religious discrimination but ethnic. Readers can be easily confused if not pointed out esp if your opening line is "I guess China oppressing Muslims doesn't really bother people.." Must have forgot to mention the area, I guess. lol, of course there is ethnic discrimination against them. That's why I condemned the news if true on my very first post. To suggest somehow China discriminates only against Muslims throughout is highly inaccurate. China also discriminates against many other ethnic minorities. This is China, it doesn't discriminate when it comes to discrimination based on religion. You've yet to tell me how they are going to enforce this? I haven't ducked your question, so why quack quack at mine?

I can accept that argument actually...the concept of ethnic vs religious...its similar to defining the issue in burma atm where minorities are the problem and they happen to be of a certain ethnicity...

However if you notice something like the rohingya issue seems to be outdoing something like this...I guess its to do with the kony age of things going viral...

As for enforcing it...its not clear but as I've already stated what's been suggested is that in public muslims will be required to eat if working etc...much like in the france thread...

[shaykh1985]

Originally Posted by Geordie Ahmed If true then this is absurd and ridiculous Also I have to say this recent trend on PP where people talk about "Oh let's see what Muslims say now" "Oh Muslims don't care about this etc etc" is pretty pathetic and quite frankly I think it says more about their own attitudes towards the issue at hand

And what attitudes would they be?...

The guys in the Saudi thread did themselves no favours with the 'its their country they can do as they please' argument...the implication was that it is ok for saudis to treat citizens how it likes because its their country...there were more of those comments and suggestions that the non muslims should respect those ideas than those who suggested the rulings themselves were ridiculous...

I mentioned in that thread directly that by lending to that attitude means your not really in a position to ridicule another nation for its mistreatment of muslims...and here is a case in point...

[Senman]

Now French summer camp workers dismissed on first day of Ramadan for fasting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...f-Ramadan.html

Why are these religious extremists hellbent on confrontation? Stupid, idiotic decision, how can one ban another from fasting, isn't this height of discrimination? Never knew french were this low.

[saeedhk]

Pathetic if true.

[withlovefrom vizag]

i dont think they can enforce this law....who knows thats communist China!!

[ahsan88]

Oh the hypocrisy.

[Geordie Ahmed]

Originally Posted by shaykh1985 And what attitudes would they be?... The guys in the Saudi thread did themselves no favours with the 'its their country they can do as they please' argument...the implication was that it is ok for saudis to treat citizens how it likes because its their country...there were more of those comments and suggestions that the non muslims should respect those ideas than those who suggested the rulings themselves were ridiculous... I mentioned in that thread directly that by lending to that attitude means your not really in a position to ridicule another nation for its mistreatment of muslims...and here is a case in point...

The attitude which I guess results in you starting your post with lol, so you yourself wasn't outraged by this news BUT rather the lack of outrage from others, though considering you started this thread it is a bit silly to expect responses to come in before you have posted the topic

I agree that anyone defending the Saudis BUT criticising the Chinese (though I think there are some important differences) is somewhat hypocritical, however it is best to wait for those posters to reveal their hypocrisy before you start lolling and assuming what the responses will be like

[ahsan88]

Mosharraf Zaidi has put it beautifully:

Ban on Muslims' observance of Ramadan in parts of China no less offensive than French intolerance of the hijab.

[Myrmidon]

wonder where people like zaid hamid and fazl ur rehman are now

dont they normally beckon the call for muslim ummah

but this is china so it will be ignored

[shaykh1985]

Originally Posted by Geordie Ahmed The attitude which I guess results in you starting your post with lol, so you yourself wasn't outraged by this news BUT rather the lack of outrage from others, though considering you started this thread it is a bit silly to expect responses to come in before you have posted the topic I agree that anyone defending the Saudis BUT criticising the Chinese (though I think there are some important differences) is somewhat hypocritical, however it is best to wait for those posters to reveal their hypocrisy before you start lolling and assuming what the responses will be like

In fairness I would have posted the article anyway...and Pakistani silence towards China is nothing new...

But I do accept your point nevertheless...