Has India proven Jinnah wrong?

[withlovefrom vizag]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat What about mosques getting demolished and replaced by temples? Is that nothing to do with discrimination either?

Where??
If you're talkin abt the above post,it is just a petition by some hindu group....

India is a secular,democratic country and never encourages demolition of temples,mosques,churches etc. unless they're illegally built

[ethan hunt]

Originally Posted by insaan You amuse me further. I never said you wrote the report. I just mentioned that the report you provided was wrong. Care to prove me wrong on Sachar Report? And then I will agree that my head is buried in the sand. If you don't like being corrected, why bother posting in a forum?

lol, didnt i post the sachar report , why dont you post the one that suits your agenda , lets see what prosperous picture it paints of the " prosperous" muslim community in india ;).

[insaan]

Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom Oh you may be right. I guess nothing can stop India killing muslims then.

I am only differing on the Pakistan factor vis-s-vis Indian Muslims.

Quick justice and zero tolerance for extremist forces in India can definitely reduce riots and killings. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[withlovefrom vizag]

Originally Posted by akheR I can be very cruel to India, but, in respect to mods, would just say that you should feel sorry for the hundreds of millions of your compatriots who are pooping in the wild and don't see a dollar in a blue moon, both countries aren't really Las Vegas we can agree about it.

seriously,wat sort of crap is this??

Almost every post of yours on PP that i saw is directed at India

[jusarrived]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat LOL. As if the UK isn't getting flooded by Indians and Sri Lankans exiting as fast as they can lift their dhotis.

Most of them come back , infact muslims who migrate to ME countries tend to return home quicker than Hindus .

[akheR]

Originally Posted by withlovefrom vizag seriously,wat sort of crap is this?? Almost every post of yours on PP that i saw is directed at India

I can say the same of two or three Indian PPers here ("every post directed at Pakistan".)

[Senman]

Originally Posted by ethan hunt lol, didnt i post the sachar report , why dont you post the one that suits your agenda , lets see what prosperous picture it paints of the " progressive" muslim community in india ;).

Did you posted the one that suits your agenda? If you want to prove the Op right tell me how Muslims in Pakistan are living in high standards compare to lets say Turkey as you already decided India is a basket-case.

[KingKhanWC]

BJP Hindutva fascism will never rule over Pakistani's, what more of an argument do people need?

[Senman]

Originally Posted by withlovefrom vizag seriously,wat sort of crap is this?? Almost every post of yours on PP that i saw is directed at India

Thats the only thing they can say bad so they bring up the slums and sanitary problems as if that washes away their own country's plight.

[PetroDollars]

You just need to look at the sufferings of minority's in India to realize if Jinnah was right or wrong.

[insaan]

Originally Posted by ethan hunt lol, didnt i post the sachar report , why dont you post the one that suits your agenda , lets see what prosperous picture it paints of the " progressive" muslim community in india ;).

You have taken it as a personal comment on you. Never called you a liar or someone who is making things up. I pointed out the wrong data in the report on the webpage that was posted by you. It was not a criticism on you, but the report you posted. But if you want to feel offended by that, be my guest.

And what exactly is my agenda?

The report you posted said that 94% of Muslims are below poverty line, and it claimed that Sachar Report says so. I already posted what are the real numbers according to Sachar Report. I wonder why one would be offended by being factually corrected on a forum.

Download the original Sachar Report, go to Chapter 8, and on pages 159 and 160, you will get the numbers on poverty levels among Indian Muslims.

Sigh!

[Senman]

Originally Posted by KingKhanWC BJP Hindutva fascism will never rule over Pakistani's, what more of an argument do people need?

But people of all faiths can become PM, president, Defence Minister etc.. etc.. in India, I am proud of my country .

[withlovefrom vizag]

C'mon guys,i think we shud end this thread

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Originally Posted by Senman Thats the only thing they can say bad so they bring up the slums and sanitary problems as if that washes away their own country's plight.

Firstly, I would say that Pakistan's plight gets way overplayed so that people who live outside would probably get a real shock to discover that it's not the hell hole they imagine.

On the other hand I think Indians get carried away with this "Shining India" spin. Maybe 50 years down the line it really will be something to see but at this time it's not any better a place to live than Pakistan IMO. Possibly a lot worse.

[ethan hunt]

Originally Posted by insaan You have taken it as a personal comment on you. Never called you a liar or someone who is making things up. I pointed out the wrong data in the report on the webpage that was posted by you. It was not a criticism on you, but the report you posted. But if you want to feel offended by that, be my guest. And what exactly is my agenda? The report you posted said that 94% of Muslims are below poverty line, and it claimed that Sachar Report says so. I already posted what are the real numbers according to Sachar Report. I wonder why one would be offended by being factually corrected on a forum. Sigh!

lol i am not offended not in the least bit , but you still didnt post the original report , i wonder why , maybe the findings hurt your feelings or those of your fellow countrymen ??

[KingKhanWC]

Originally Posted by Senman But people of all faiths can become PM, president, Defence Minister etc.. etc.. in India, I am proud of my country .

Good for you but I've never met a single Pakistani ever who would like to be ruled by a Hindutva party. It's a nail in the coffin of this debate. That's why Jinnah wanted a state for Muslims so they wouldn't be ruled by Hindu fascists.

[akheR]

Originally Posted by Senman But people of all faiths can become PM, president, Defence Minister etc.. etc.. in India, I am proud of my country .

Like Modi the Mullah.

[ethan hunt]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat Firstly, I would say that Pakistan's plight gets way overplayed so that people who live outside would probably get a real shock to discover that it's not the hell hole they imagine. On the other hand I think Indians get carried away with this "Shining India" spin. Maybe 50 years down the line it really will be something to see but at this time it's not any better a place to live than Pakistan IMO. Possibly a lot worse.

+ 1 . u bet it is , in every way possible , anyone who has visited both countries would agree , than again i wont blame the indians if they are blinded by patriotism .

[jusarrived]

Originally Posted by akheR I can be very cruel to India, but, in respect to mods, would just say that you should feel sorry for the hundreds of millions of your compatriots who are pooping in the wild and don't see a dollar in a blue moon, both countries aren't really Las Vegas we can agree about it.

What did I say earliar ? If i wer a Pakistani I wud not be pointing fingers at others . I have no intention of making fun of innocent people , unlike some of you .... you talk crap about my country and expect me to take it quietly, am not that 'insan' .

[Senman]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat Firstly, I would say that Pakistan's plight gets way overplayed so that people who live outside would probably get a real shock to discover that it's not the hell hole they imagine. On the other hand I think Indians get carried away with this "Shining India" spin. Maybe 50 years down the line it really will be something to see but at this time it's not any better a place to live than Pakistan IMO. Possibly a lot worse.

And you know this because......

have you visited any city in India? shining India is a political term used by BJP but got rejected, we know the reality. We are not saying we have the standards of NY or Sydney or London but compared to any 3rd world country, we are better in terms of infrastructure/healthcare.

You can give any statistics and we can compare if you are up to it.

[Namak_Halaal]

Yes folks, India has an unelected Sikh PM – secularism and democracy in full swing.

[insaan]

Originally Posted by ethan hunt lol i am not offended not in the least bit , but you still didnt post the original report , i wonder why , maybe the findings hurt your feelings or those of your fellow countrymen ??

I don't know how should I post the entire report on this forum. Sure, I could have provided a link, but I thought you would be smart enough to do a Google. But let me do it for you: http://minorityaffairs.gov.in/sachar And I mentioned the chapter and the page numbers as well. Didn't know that such spoon feeding was still not enough.

Due to my inability to post the original report, I accept defeat. I bow before your superior logic and your insight into understanding my agenda. You win!

[Senman]

Originally Posted by KingKhanWC Good for you but I've never met a single Pakistani ever who would like to be ruled by a Hindutva party. It's a nail in the coffin of this debate. That's why Jinnah wanted a state for Muslims so they wouldn't be ruled by Hindu fascists.

Thats the difference you see you can call Hindus fascists even if there are minorities among you but I won't do that to my countrymen regardless of them being Muslim or Christian India taught me that

[Senman]

Originally Posted by akheR Like Modi the Mullah.

Even a corrupt Muslim like Md. Azhar can.

[IgnitedMind]

Originally Posted by Namak_Halaal Yes folks, India has an unelected Sikh PM – secularism and democracy in full swing.

Elected one is a christian born in italy!!!!

I wish i could participate in this thread... at work

[Namak_Halaal]

Originally Posted by KingKhanWC Good for you but I've never met a single Pakistani ever who would like to be ruled by a Hindutva party. It's a nail in the coffin of this debate. That's why Jinnah wanted a state for Muslims so they wouldn't be ruled by Hindu fascists.

What foresight Jinnah had - today the Hindutva party is the largest fascist, extremist, and rightwing party in the world; the largest opposition party in India, and of course, the largest terrorist organisation in the world.

Day by day Jinnah is being proved right.

[ethan hunt]

Originally Posted by insaan I don't know how should I post the entire report on this forum. Sure, I could have provided a link, but I thought you would be smart enough to do a Google. But let me do it for you: http://minorityaffairs.gov.in/sachar And I mentioned the chapter and the page numbers as well. Didn't know that such spoon feeding was still not enough. Due to my inability to post the original report, I accept defeat. I bow before your superior logic and your insight into understanding my agenda. You win!

are you for real ?? .
here is the summary of that report


In the field of literacy the Committee has found that the rate among Muslims is very much below than the national average. The gap between Muslims and the general average is greater in urban areas and women. 25 per cent of children of Muslim parents in the 6-14 year age group have either never attended school or have dropped out.

Muslim parents are not averse to mainstream education or to send their children to affordable Government schools. The access to government schools for children of Muslim parents is limited.

Bidi workers, tailors and mechanics need to be provided with social safety nets and social security. The participation of Muslims in the professional and managerial cadre is low.

The average amount of bank loan disbursed to the Muslims is 2/3 of the amount disbursed to other minorities. In some cases it is half. The Reserve Bank of India’s efforts to extend banking and credit facilities under the Prime Minister’s 15-point programme of 1983 has mainly benefited other minorities marginalizing Muslims.

There is a clear and significant inverse association between the proportion of the Muslim population and the availability of educational infrastructure in small villages. Muslim concentration villages are not well served with pucca approach roads and local bus stops.

Substantially larger proportion of the Muslim households in urban areas are in the less than Rs.500 expenditure bracket.

The presence of Muslims has been found to be only 3% in the IAS, 1.8% in the IFS and 4% in the IPS.

Muslim community has a representation of only 4.5% in Indian Railways while 98.7% of them are positioned at lower levels. Representation of Muslims is very low in the Universities and in Banks. Their share in police constables is only 6%, in health 4.4%, in transport 6.5%.


Most of the variables indicate that Muslim-OBCs are significantly deprived in comparison to Hindu-OBCs. The work participation rate (WPR) shows the presence of a sharp difference between Hindu-OBCs (67%) and the Muslims. The share of Muslim-OBCs in government/ PSU jobs is much lower than Hindu-OBCs.

[Senman]

Originally Posted by Namak_Halaal Yes folks, India has an unelected Sikh PM – secularism and democracy in full swing.

When a elected representative that too Muslim can't even complete the full term at office in your country, I would say we have a very mature diverse secular democracy

[Namak_Halaal]

Originally Posted by navroks123 Elected one is a christian born in italy!!!! I wish i could participate in this thread... at work

My point is how Indians love to cite Mr. Singh as a symbol of secularism when the truth is he wasn't even elected. I wonder how many Hindus in India would'v voted for a Sikh PM.

[Senman]

Anyway I am completely getting in to this(to my embarrassment) and have no time for this pointless we are better because you are worse debate. If you guys honestly think Pakistan is in good state, I am very happy for you, keep it up. see you.

[King Cobra]

But what is the need to prove Jinnah wrong ? Am sure no average Pakistani would ever want to be part of India even if all Indians climb over moon . Just fake ego and all that .

[shan]

Originally Posted by navroks123 Elected one is a christian born in italy!!!! I wish i could participate in this thread... at work

We all know what happened to Italian elected born and why Congress had to make sikh PM, dont we?

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Originally Posted by Senman And you know this because...... have you visited any city in India? shining India is a political term used by BJP but got rejected, we know the reality. We are not saying we have the standards of NY or Sydney or London but compared to any 3rd world country, we are better in terms of infrastructure/healthcare.

and you have first hand knowledge of Pakistani cities I take it?

Pakistan has a poor image and India has a good one which tends to distort reality of the comparative living standards. Is India going to forge ahead in the future? Actually I wish them good luck. Their progress will be a good spur for Pakistan. Maybe something good can come out of rivalry after all.

[ethan hunt]

[QUOTE=jusarrived;5003854. The Govt or other comunities can hardly do anything if you prefer to send your kids to madrasas over schools . You dont graduate from schools/colg you wont get a govt job .[/QUOTE]

lol who are you kidding .??

Only four per cent of Muslims students actually go to madrassas primarily because primary state schools do not exist for miles in India. Therefore, the idea that Muslims prefer madrassa education was found to be not true
.[3]
Incredible india .LOL

[insaan]

Originally Posted by ethan hunt are you for real ?? . here is the summary of that report now i know why you were so hesitant ??

If you were paying attention, I never said Indian Muslims are in a good condition. I pointed out the blatant flaw in the first point that was raised in the article you posted, on poverty levels. I know because I have read every page of Sachar Report. If I knew you would get so agitated by that, I would have let that pass.

And btw, you still win!

[insaan]

Originally Posted by ethan hunt lol who are you kidding .?? Only four per cent of Muslims students actually go to madrassas primarily because primary state schools do not exist for miles. Therefore, the idea that Muslims prefer madrassa education was found to be not true.[3]

There. You are right. It is a misconception that most Indian Muslims go to madrasahs.

[shan]

Again i will believe half dozen Indian jounalists who visited Pakistan in last 5-10 years (easly the worst time in Pakistani history) and compared it to India then delusions Indians on PP.

[insaan]

Time to make an exit from this thread, with the nice discussions taking place.

[Senman]

Originally Posted by shan Again i will believe half dozen Indian jounalists who visited Pakistan in last 5-10 years (easly the worst time in Pakistani history) and compared it to India then delusions Indians on PP.

Sure you have every right to do so and its waste of time on our part to explain how we are better because honestly we are nowhere near Hong Kong or London or NY or Sydney so no point really.

[KingKhanWC]

Originally Posted by Senman When a elected representative that too Muslim can't even complete the full term at office in your country, I would say we have a very mature diverse secular democracy

You miss the point of mine and NH. BJP is not just a party of peaceful Hari Krishna, Hari Rami Hindu's, their ideology is one of Hindutva, a fascist ideology in nature. The freedom for Muslims in Pakistan to be never ruled over by such a party is a great success of the creation of Pakistan. Countless people have tried to break away the historic land but failed until Jinnah and a few others came to the party.

[Senman]

Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat and you have first hand knowledge of Pakistani cities I take it? Pakistan has a poor image and India has a good one which tends to distort reality of the comparative living standards. Is India going to forge ahead in the future? Actually I wish them good luck. Their progress will be a good spur for Pakistan. Maybe something good can come out of rivalry after all.

Ok Cpt.Rishwat I find you not bogged down religion when you are posting, that to me is a respectable person so I am gonna take your word. IMO a decade early Pakistan where better but because of the failing of infrastructures like railways and electricity and cheap healthcare Pakistan is not matching whatever standards are there in India. If you think this is not true and Pakistan has better standards then so be it, I find it pointless as we are not going to visit each other country in near future and assumptions are not good.

[jusarrived]

Originally Posted by ethan hunt lol who are you kidding .?? Only four per cent of Muslims students actually go to madrassas primarily because primary state schools do not exist for miles in India. Therefore, the idea that Muslims prefer madrassa education was found to be not true .[3] Incredible india .LOL

Yes , The schools in India are Palnned in such a way that they are closer to Hindu houses and far from muslim ones .

The difference is mindset , education is first priority for any kid in India .... Hindus , Christians & sikhs , only muslims are exception . The percentage of muslims starts to dwindle as you go higher up from school , high school , colg and PG . A lot of the drop out due to varid reason , mostly cos not enough stress is given at home . its worse if you are muslim gurl , which is half the muslim population ? then how will the literate % improve . The system seems to be working fine ( not great ) for all other communities , but still its the evil hindus who are responsible here ?