The point of playing 4 Tests?

[MenInG]

Just seeing Englands Schedule for this winter's trip to India

ECB Media Release India set to host England in four Tests, five ODIs and two T20s ECB today announced the itinerary for England’s winter tours of India (2012-13) which will include four Test Matches and two T20 Internationals before Christmas and five One-Day Internationals in the New Year. England are scheduled to depart UK on October 25th for a three day training camp at the ICC Global Cricket Academy in Dubai before playing three First-Class matches in India ahead of the four-Test series. ECB Managing Director, England Cricket, Hugh Morris said: "This will be England’s first full tour of India since 2008 and I am sure that cricket fans in both countries will be eagerly anticipating an exciting series of contests in all three formats of the game. "We are grateful to BCCI for agreeing to host three First-Class tour matches ahead of the Test series and we are also seeking to finalise an England Performance Programme camp in India before Christmas which will help prepare members of both our Test and T20 squads." England Test and T20 Squads - Tour to India 2012 25 October Team departs UK 26-28 October Training ICC Global Cricket Academy, Dubai 29 October Arrive Mumbai 30 October-1 November 3-day tour match Mumbai, CCI 3-5 November 3-day tour match Mumbai, BKC 8-11 November 4-day tour match Ahmedabad, SPS Navrangpura 15-19 November 1st Test Match Ahmedabad, Motera 23-27 November 2nd Test Match Mumbai, Wankhede Stadium 5-9 December 3rd Test Match Kolkata 13-17 December 4th Test Match Nagpur 20 December 1st T20 (f) Pune 22 December 2nd T20 (f) Mumbai, Wankhede Stadium 23 December Team departs India England ODI Squad - Tour to India 2013 2 January Team departs UK 3 January Arrive Delhi 6 January 50-over tour match (D/N) Venue tbc 8 January 50 over tour match Venue tbc 11 January 1st ODI (D/N) Rajkot 15 January 2nd ODI (D/N) Kochi 19 January 3rd ODI (D/N) Ranchi 23 January 4th ODI (D/N) Dharamshala 27 January 5th ODI (D/N) Mohali 28 January Team departs India

What is the point of playing 4 test matches ? why not 3 or 5?

[truthseer]

Better than 2. I don't see the problem, sure, the series could be drawn but then you could claim that if it were a 6 match series, whoever lost the 5th would have won the 6th

[MenInG]

I didnt suggest 6 match series! 3 or 5 - a clear winner if possible

[truthseer]

What if it's 2-2 in a four test series with one team being 2-1 at one stage? Was the team leading at the 3 match stage necessarily better?

[leatherface58]

ahmedabad test is most probably a draw. the pitch there is possibly the worst in india. last day you can get 500.

there should have been a test at mohali. produced a cracker of a game vs the aussies.

[Random Aussie]

Cos four Tests>>three Tests.

And five Tests is too long if one team is flogging another.

[leatherface58]

best thing is dharmshala getting an odi. beautiful stadium. needless to say the surroundings add to the beauty.

[cricketindiafan]

In the era of back to back tests on a tour, 5th Test means additional 11-12 days to the itinerary, a rest of 5-6 days followed by 5 days of test cricket. In that time teams would prefer to finish their t20 commitments and get done with a few ODIs as well.

So a sort of a compromise or rather a balance between having more tests but also ensuring T20s and ODIs fit in.

[LegCutter]

A test match does not necessarily have to be an odd number because of the chances of a draw. There is no guarantee that a 3 match series would guarantee a clear winniner (1-1 with 1 draw). Similarly with 4 tests there is a good chance that there would be a winner with a 2-1 margin and a draw.

[cricketindiafan]

Originally Posted by leatherface58 best thing is dharmshala getting an odi. beautiful stadium. needless to say the surroundings add to the beauty.

Some idiot decided to have a D/N match there, that too in January, could be freezing by the evening. By 4 in the afternoon it will be dark and the entire scenery will be of no use! Hopefully better sense prevails and they start the match around 12-12.30 so that at least one innings could be completed before sunlight fades.

[leatherface58]

Originally Posted by cricketindiafan Some idiot decided to have a D/N match there, that too in January, could be freezing by the evening. By 4 in the afternoon it will be dark and the entire scenery will be of no use! Hopefully better sense prevails and they start the match around 12-12.30 so that at least one innings could be completed before sunlight fades.

yeah didnt see the d/n there. should be day. preferably starting at 9-30-10:00. evening would make it very cold.

[freelance_cricketer]

4 tests are cool. In test Cricket draws are not really useless. Teams can go back with some honour with a 1-1 draw series. Nothing bad about it.


Too bad no test match at Mohali.



Gonna be watching 5th ODI. Hell yeah

[Blitz]

You can have between 1 and 50 test matches, and theres still no guarentee of a winner.


Like someone said, keeping that in mind 4 > 3.


England love 4 match series anyway. India, Pak, SA away etc etc

[khalil1986]

Originally Posted by LegCutter A test match does not necessarily have to be an odd number because of the chances of a draw. There is no guarantee that a 3 match series would guarantee a clear winniner (1-1 with 1 draw). Similarly with 4 tests there is a good chance that there would be a winner with a 2-1 margin and a draw.

Yes I agree I'm sure on average in subcontinent there is probably a relative high percentage of tests that end in draws so bearing that in mind I don't see an issue, in LOI there has to be either 3 or 5 as draw is non existent but tests I don't see a problem except for the stupid two tests which don't make any sense at all.

[wasi90lk]

4 match test series is fine with me. there is no guarantee that every test will have a winner.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Random Aussie And five Tests is too long if one team is flogging another.

Bet you didn't think so in the 05/6 Ashes.

[Wristy_Shuffler]

It's called the 'Pakistan effect'. Obviously after getting battered 3-0, England were 'undercooked' and 'caught of guard' and had there been a 4th, they would've surely won it.

And so, to prevent the possibility of getting whitewashed again, 4 match series will be the norm, particularly in the SC.....until they get beaten 4-0.

[praveen]

4 is okay. we haven't seen a 2-2 that often.

[Shayan]

As long as its more than 2, I don't mind. Plus, the fact that draws are quite likely means that an odd number isn't required as much as it is in an ODI series.

[cricketworm]

It's because ODIs still sells. People complain about ODIs are getting boring, they should die and all, but broadcasters rarely trim down number of ODIs to 3 odis. They keep playing, means lot of people still watch them. I think no-one plays 5 tests other than Ashes. And 3 tests are very short for cash cow series, ECB and BCCI.

btw. England playing THREE practice games hahaha why doesn't that surprise me?

[Zaz]

I dont mind four, yes ideally a odd number is better but theres always a good chance there ll be a draw somewhere

Ideally the more tests the better It gives the players a chance to get in the groove for the format and conditons and the best team is likely go and wih the series

Two tests is just not enough and the series could crucially be affected by one poor decision It also doesnt give the opposition a chance to win the series once they go one down and the chances that it ll end 1-1 are extremely high

[ElRaja]

Originally Posted by MenInG I didnt suggest 6 match series! 3 or 5 - a clear winner if possible

one draw and there is a chance of no winners in a 3 or 5 test series either.

i read somewhere on average 24% of tests since 2000 have ended in a draw, so i guess you could ask why have 3 or 5 test series if chances are only an even number of matches will produce results, lols.

[Robert]

Five is the right number of tests. You can watch a series unfold, and the play becomes more strategic.

[omairsiddiqui]

The tour itself is surprisingly very long. Almost three months! Very unusual to see a team touring the subcontinent for that long.

[Express Pace]

4 is okay, probably a drawn test in there somewhere.

[Ruri]

Originally Posted by MenInG Just seeing Englands Schedule for this winter's trip to India What is the point of playing 4 test matches ? why not 3 or 5?

Unlike ODIs, Test matches tend to draw and therefore it is fairly irrelevant if there are 4.

For all we know, if play 3, it might end up 1-1.

5 is optimal though.

[BD-fan]

Originally Posted by Robert Five is the right number of tests. You can watch a series unfold, and the play becomes more strategic.

Unless one folds early and the lead is 3-0 after three. Then the other two becomes boring for everyone.

[KingKhanWC]

It;s a fair point, drawn tests are not as common now so we don't really want to see drawn series esp in a big series such as this. Both teams have plenty to prove so 5 tests would have been perfect. If it's 5-0 so be it, we've seen that before and plenty of 4-0 too. Two T20 matches should be scrapped and replaced with another test.

[Big Harvey]

Originally Posted by cricketindiafan Some idiot decided to have a D/N match there, that too in January, could be freezing by the evening. By 4 in the afternoon it will be dark and the entire scenery will be of no use! Hopefully better sense prevails and they start the match around 12-12.30 so that at least one innings could be completed before sunlight fades.

Yes, I must admit I thought it was a mistake. Looking at the normal January temperatures they're on par with the UK at the same time of year. Cricket is not played in the UK in January. Some players (especially from Surrey) even moaned about the season starting in April this year!

[Big Harvey]

The thing that immediately struck me was that the final Test is going to be played in an empty ground. What an anticlimax! They should either move Tests in Nagpur back to the old ground or not play Tests there at all.

[freelance_cricketer]

25 October Team departs UK 26-28 October Training ICC Global Cricket Academy, Dubai 29 October Arrive Mumbai 30 October-1 November 3-day tour match Mumbai, CCI 3-5 November 3-day tour match Mumbai, BKC 8-11 November 4-day tour match Ahmedabad, SPS Navrangpura 15-19 November 1st Test Match Ahmedabad, Motera 23-27 November 2nd Test Match Mumbai, Wankhede Stadium 5-9 December 3rd Test Match Kolkata 13-17 December 4th Test Match Nagpur 20 December 1st T20 (f) Pune 22 December 2nd T20 (f) Mumbai, Wankhede Stadium 23 December Team departs India

Why not straight to India from England?

[Big Harvey]

Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer Why not straight to India from England?

Avoiding jetlag maybe?

Anyway, they're playing 3 warm-up games in India, so they shouldn't be underprepared.

[KingKhanWC]

Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer Why not straight to India from England?

Minimise the risk of Delhi Belly?

The ICC centre has everything they need in one place, including pitches from all around the world.

[freelance_cricketer]

Originally Posted by Big Harvey Avoiding jetlag maybe? Anyway, they're playing 3 warm-up games in India, so they shouldn't be underprepared.

Not sure man. Doesn't make much sense to me. Why take a break over there when you are having 2 weeks of preparation . Anyway it shouldn't matter to us. Just saying because it seems quite odd.

[ads101]

I don't mind 4 tests. It's not likely to be a draw, and if they do draw over 4 tests, then the deserved result is probably a draw. After all an odd last test can always end in a draw anyway. In fact given that tests often end in a draw, plus the chance of playing an extra test, I'm not sure if there is more chance of drawing a 4 test match series than a 3 test one.

2 is too few in my opinion as it doesn't give the opposition a chance to fight back. One match down and you can't win the series. In addition it favours the home side more as away sides tend to improve over time as they get used to the conditions.

Limited overs series should always be an odd number obviously as you can only really win or draw.

Think it should be 3 test series between a strong and a weaker team. Thus preventing the series getting boring and a team thrashing another over 5 tests. And teams on a similar sort of level should play 4/5 tests. It's difficult for a weaker team to keep the level up for so many tests against a stronger team, so playing less test matches in a series makes it more competitive.

Think ODI series should be 3 matches long, and T20 again 3 matches long. Sometimes T20 can just be a one off match.

[praveen]

Ahmadabad and Nagpur hosting England ?

C'mon Bangalore and Chennai would have been ideal

[kingusama92]

My issue is with those idiotic test series with only 2 matches.

Those should be completely removed from cricket. It's a real waste of time as the series is over before it even really began.

Don't mind 4 tests, the possible result of a draw means no amount of matches is really a guarantee to have a winner.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by BD-fan Unless one folds early and the lead is 3-0 after three. Then the other two becomes boring for everyone.

I disagree, because one side will be trying for a whitewash, and the other will be playing for pride.

[ads101]

Originally Posted by Robert I disagree, because one side will be trying for a whitewash, and the other will be playing for pride.

nah don't agree, those matches after 3-0 aren't really as entertaining as the ones before. There's a lack of interest for the viewer as he knows the series has already gone. The players on the losing side in their heart know that they have already been beaten. They will never fight with the same conviction as if they had a shot at winning it or it was 2-2 going into the last test. Because irrespective of the final score it was still a loss.

Seeing a team trying for a whitewash isn't the most entertaining thing to see or even do. Even the teams themselves probably don't really want to do it (unless it's more revenge/want to really humiliate the oppositions). What most teams want is the win, and once they get that, anything's extra.

Everything points to after 3-0 neither the winning or losing team will fight with as much conviction. Nor will the supporters support with as much passion. so all in all those last 2 tests will be boring for everyone just like BD-fan said.

[James]

4 tests allows for a strategic, competitive series and usually gives chances to a number of players, so is a great idea all round. Unless India are playing away, then it is kind of pointless.

[cricketindiafan]

Originally Posted by kingusama92 My issue is with those idiotic test series with only 2 matches. Those should be completely removed from cricket. It's a real waste of time as the series is over before it even really began. Don't mind 4 tests, the possible result of a draw means no amount of matches is really a guarantee to have a winner.

Wouldn't you prefer to see a 2 match series vs having no tests at all? Ideally a test series should have minimum 3 tests, but if there are scheduling constraints, I wouldn't mind a 2 test series either.

IMO with the t20s being regularly played on every tour, tours should ideally have 3 tests, 3 ODIs and 2 t20s. No need to play 5 or 7 ODIs. Increase the number of tests if there is enough time in the itinerary.

[James]

Frequent 4 test series also emphasise the importance and superiority of test cricket over the other formats.

[kingusama92]

Originally Posted by cricketindiafan Wouldn't you prefer to see a 2 match series or no tests at all? Ideally a test series should have minimum 3 tests, but if there are scheduling constraints, I wouldn't mind a 2 test series either. IMO with the t20s being regularly played on every tour, tours should ideally have 3 tests, 3 ODIs and 2 t20s. No need to play 5 or 7 ODIs. Increase the number of tests if there is enough time in the itinerary.

No tests at all.

I think two tests are a futile practice.

The Pakistan v Australia series was respectable, but that was because we knew another series (with England) was to follow.

I concur on the 'ideal' tour schedule. 3 tests, 3 ODIs and 2 T20s are sublime. For the grander series (e.g, Pak v Ind) you can go with 5 ODIs, but for the rest the 3,3,2 setup is welcomed.

[Big Harvey]

Originally Posted by praveen Ahmadabad and Nagpur hosting England ? C'mon Bangalore and Chennai would have been ideal

Ahmedabad is certainly not at the top of most England fans' list of must-visit venues! Still, there's no reason why the Indians should have to cater to our whims. I reckon there will be quite a few going out there for the Mumbai and Kolkata Tests. I really can't understand the choice of Nagpur for the final Test though. It would have made more sense to have Kolkata and Mumbai as the final two Tests, or at least have the final Test somewhere where people will actually turn up to watch. Kanpur for example.

[leatherface58]

^^
nagpur produces results. atleast it has for the past few tests. ahmedabad produces extremely dull games. unless they prepare spiteful turners which would finish games in three to four days, i dont see ahmedabad test producing a result.

it did during saf vs india test but thats because steyn was on fire. otherwise, its a dull pitch. even bhajan got 100.

[Lethalweapon]

Originally Posted by James 4 tests allows for a strategic, competitive series and usually gives chances to a number of players, so is a great idea all round. Unless India are playing away, then it is kind of pointless.

India is yet to lose to the teams ranked 6-9 away. or to SA.
Till then hold on to your biased assumptions.

[Lethalweapon]

Originally Posted by leatherface58 ^^ nagpur produces results. atleast it has for the past few tests. ahmedabad produces extremely dull games. unless they prepare spiteful turners which would finish games in three to four days, i dont see ahmedabad test producing a result. it did during saf vs india test but thats because steyn was on fire. otherwise, its a dull pitch. even bhajan got 100.

What nonsense, THAT PITCH IN 2008 WAS GREEN! Only Ganguly got any runs in that match from India.
Coincidentally, there was a 'greener' pitch in an ODI in 2005 also against SA where Yuvraj got a rare 100 in a loss.
I agree that it is not a norm, it is a rarity.

[James]

Originally Posted by Lethalweapon India is yet to lose to the teams ranked 6-9 away.

*Golf clap*

[leatherface58]

Originally Posted by Lethalweapon What nonsense, THAT PITCH IN 2008 WAS GREEN! Only Ganguly got any runs in that match from India. Coincidentally, there was a 'greener' pitch in an ODI in 2005 also against SA where Yuvraj got a rare 100 in a loss. I agree that it is not a norm, it is a rarity.

that would be it then. after producing green pitches, they regressed to the point that lanka got 750 and india got 2 scores of 400+ in a test.

then even we got 400+. somehow phantom went mad but bhajan got in the way.

[Lethalweapon]

Originally Posted by James *Golf clap*

You assumed that India will be whitewashed in every away series they play. I answered that.

[truthseer]

Originally Posted by James *Golf clap*

You didn't respond to the S.A part

[Markhor]

4 Tests are usually played in the English summer. 3 Tests are too little and 5 Tests are excessive, except if its an Ashes series.

I like how India do allow the smaller cricketing centres to host international matches.

11 January 1st ODI (D/N) Rajkot
15 January 2nd ODI (D/N) Kochi
19 January 3rd ODI (D/N) Ranchi
23 January 4th ODI (D/N) Dharamshala (Idiotic decision to have a D/N at Dharamsala, beautiful ground with the hilly terrain).
27 January 5th ODI (D/N) Mohali

[praveen]

Originally Posted by Big Harvey Ahmedabad is certainly not at the top of most England fans' list of must-visit venues! Still, there's no reason why the Indians should have to cater to our whims. I reckon there will be quite a few going out there for the Mumbai and Kolkata Tests. I really can't understand the choice of Nagpur for the final Test though. It would have made more sense to have Kolkata and Mumbai as the final two Tests, or at least have the final Test somewhere where people will actually turn up to watch. Kanpur for example.

I would ideally like bangalore,chennai,mumbai,kolkata and mohali host the big teams and have nagpur, ahmadabad and other venues allotted for nz,sl,wi etc..

One silver lining is the touring barmy armies can experience different parts of the country every time.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by ads101 nah don't agree, those matches after 3-0 aren't really as entertaining as the ones before. There's a lack of interest for the viewer as he knows the series has already gone.

Not for me. When we were 3-0 down to WI and facing a blackwash, I was desparate for England to at least draw a match to halt the slide.

And WI were still going full power, desperate to flatten us.

[cricketindiafan]

Originally Posted by Markhor 4 Tests are usually played in the English summer. 3 Tests are too little and 5 Tests are excessive, except if its an Ashes series. I like how India do allow the smaller cricketing centres to host international matches. 11 January 1st ODI (D/N) Rajkot 15 January 2nd ODI (D/N) Kochi 19 January 3rd ODI (D/N) Ranchi 23 January 4th ODI (D/N) Dharamshala (Idiotic decision to have a D/N at Dharamsala, beautiful ground with the hilly terrain). 27 January 5th ODI (D/N) Mohali

Has been an enforced decision after ODIs at bigger centers were played in half filled stadiums in the last two seasons.

Plus the scheduling in BCCI works on a rotational basis. We have 10 test centers Mumbai, Delhi, Kolkata, Chennai, Bangalore, Mohali, Hyderabad, Kanpur, Ahmedabad and Nagpur and there are some 12 other stadiums where only ODIs/T20s are played - Jaipur, Indore, Rajkot, Baroda, Goa, Kochi, Cuttack, Vizag, Guwahati and now Ranchi, Pune and Dharmshala. International matches are allocated to these stadiums purely on a rotational basis with match allocation being used as a means to ensure the participating state association keeps supporting the goup ruling the BCCI.