Is Captaincy Affecting Salman Butt's Batting Form?

[Saj]

Do you think that the burden of captaincy is affecting Salman Butt's batting or is it simply a case of poor form?

[Desire]

i think its not captaincy. its just that he looks lost as all other batsmen. its a case of poor form only.

[Savak]

Butt has always been inconsistent and poor in swinging conditions. Its just a case of being exposed as usual.

[insaaniyat]

Saj bhai lately captaincy has effected our players big time. Some lost their form,some their head and some both.

Butt and Moyo - lost the form
Afridi - lost his head
YK - both

[d0gers]

It's probably both.

He had hit a bit of a purple patch leading up to the England series and up to that point he was averaging in the mid 40s over the last year. So he had to regress to the mean at some point.

Being handed the captaincy wouldn't have helped either.

[atif.raza]

It could be but the solution is not to replace him by another captain. Salman is our best best at long term captaincy and i am hopefully he will find his touch soon. He has taken a right step by dropping down to 3 as that will relieve some of the pressure he is under right now.

We also have no alternative. Asif is the only option that comes to mind but who is to say that his performances will also not drop after he becomes captain?

I'll even go step ahead and assign him LOI captain as well. I see little point in recalling Younis now. The series is almost over and it's best to stick with these youngsters in another flat surface in Lords. I am sure with yousuf guidence Umar Amin could also have come good if he had played today. And younis is an absolute no-no in ODIs. He cannot rotate strike to save his life in the power play overs so perhaps there is a case for his return at number 5 position. But personally, i think Yousuf will suffice in ODIs too and both Younis and Malik should find their peace outside cricket for the rest of their lives

[SOSami]

Yes and no.

He had done good work with his footwork but has regressed to the bad old days, most probably due to the pressures of captaincy. He was flawless at Lords whilst working hard at his game and that was without the captaincy, suggesting he can improve if he goes back to working on moving his feet.

On the other hand, this is no different to the way he batted on the previous occasions he has come to England (including the T20 World Cup win).

MoYo's presence will undoubtedly help him. YK coming back will also relieve the stress. Hes over worked and under-cooked at the moment so we should cut him some slack.

[Maula Jutt]

Originally Posted by sosami yes and no. He had done good work with his footwork but has regressed to the bad old days, most probably due to the pressures of captaincy. He was flawless at lords whilst working hard at his game and that was without the captaincy, suggesting he can improve if he goes back to working on moving his feet. On the other hand, this is no different to the way he batted on the previous occasions he has come to england (including the t20 world cup win). Moyo's presence will undoubtedly help him. Yk coming back will also relieve the stress. Hes over worked and under-cooked at the moment so we should cut him some slack.

+1

[Stewie]

absolutely its affecting him and its not hard to see why.. this is probably the toughest job in the world.

it also doesnt mean we dump him from the job or the team altogether.

I am sure he will find his way back into form once he gets used to it.

[Black Zero]

batting conditions (everyone failed)

[saqlain]

Only the captains in Pakistani team is affected by extra responsibilities. What about Ponting, Dhoni, Smith, Strauss and others???? There is no excuse for any player especially a captain to not to perform, either as a batsmen or a bowler, simply because he was given the extra charge of captaincy.

[Sledger]

Originally Posted by Savak Butt has always been inconsistent and poor in swinging conditions. Its just a case of being exposed as usual.

Agree with this.

[ads101]

I wish it was.

He's just no good against swing or spin. There's no point comparing him with others, as he's a senior, the rest are mostly debutants. And even then he looks the worse out of all the batsmen anyway. He can't even stick around to see off the new ball, let alone make a decent score.

I'm so tired of this guy only performing against Australia. It's beyond a joke now. His average is actually going to drop into the twenties now.

I think Pakistan made a mistake of selecting him too early. He needed to play more domestic cricket first and sort out his technical deficiencies before playing internationally.

I'm happy with his captaincy though.

[AZ]

been unlucky, and a poor stroke in his latest innings..form is not so bad I think.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by Ahmed Zulfiqar been unlucky, and a poor stroke in his latest innings..form is not so bad I think.

you and salman butt are the only 2 guys who seem to think so

[insaaniyat]

Butt is just edgy lately. I am sure if we win this test, his form will be back for next.

[insaaniyat]

Originally Posted by gollumbird you and salman butt are the only 2 guys who seem to think so

bhai add me to the list too

[AZ]

Originally Posted by gollumbird you and salman butt are the only 2 guys who seem to think so

as in the way he's batting, not his scores...those are very poor, clearly.

[Stewie]

Originally Posted by saqlain Only the captains in Pakistani team is affected by extra responsibilities. What about Ponting, Dhoni, Smith, Strauss and others???? There is no excuse for any player especially a captain to not to perform, either as a batsmen or a bowler, simply because he was given the extra charge of captaincy.

You obviously dont know the way Pakistani system works compared to rest of the more established and more professional organizations.


Lets take a look then..

On one hand you have ECB/CA/BCCI/CSA etc

1- They have elected officials who are not under political pressure from the governing party/heirarchy

2- Regardless of change in government, the board officials maintain their policies and strategies.

3- The captain is appointed or picked on a long term basis, provided full support and backing. The appointment of captain/coached/selectors/board officials is not tainted by Political appointments of the ruling political party and the Board officials.

4- Captains have a level of control and authority in selections, etc.

Now lets look at pakistan:

1- We dont have elected officials but ad hoc boards whose constituents change more times than you and I change our underwear
2- Soon as the government changes, the board officials change and the captain can kiss his career bye bye.. so no job security which means more pressure captains of other countries do not face.
3- the captain is never appointed in Pakistan on long term basis.. It has always been on series by series basis.. So one bad series such as the one against top test nations played in alien conditions and you can kiss your captaincy career bye bye

14- no level of control since this time around Butt sahib controls coaches, selectors and selections..


So my friend now you put yourself under Butt's shoes and tell me if you feel any different to Ponting, Dhoni, Strauss and Smith.

[*sallu*]

Butt was looking excellent today for the most part, he just played a rubbish shot today

But then again, can stats lie in such a big way?

[Sohail Khan]

Originally Posted by saqlain Only the captains in Pakistani team is affected by extra responsibilities. What about Ponting, Dhoni, Smith, Strauss and others???? There is no excuse for any player especially a captain to not to perform, either as a batsmen or a bowler, simply because he was given the extra charge of captaincy.

+1

He tried to hide this by sending Hameed to open. The move backfired.

[Sohail Khan]

Originally Posted by *sallu* Butt was looking excellent today for the most part, he just played a rubbish shot today But then again, can stats lie in such a big way?

Did you forget the drop chance by Morgan?

[muhammad saad]

Just leave the captaincy to that buffoon Ejaz Butt and play without any captain.

[WNC]

Yes I do think that his batting's been affected after taking up the captaincy. As much as he'd like to deny that, or some people might say he's crap as always, it has. The timing of Afridi's iQuit scenario was just idiotic and placed our only in form batsman, under a different kind of pressure.

[saeed-sohail]

No.He is rubbish as always.

[KingKhanWC]

Originally Posted by saeed-sohail No.He is rubbish as always.

Didn't he score well against the Aussies earlier in the summer?

O.K Aus bowlers aren't as good as Englands but it's no coincdence his form dropped after being made skipper. I think it was a good decision to drop him down and he looked like finding his form but made a silly error to a long hop and threw his wicket away.

Hopefully with Yousuf in the team, he will be under less pressure and be able to perform in the second innings.

[PB]

Originally Posted by Savak Butt has always been inconsistent and poor in swinging conditions. Its just a case of being exposed as usual.

What about the 1st Test against Australia at Lords ?

[saeed-sohail]

Originally Posted by KingKhanWC Didn't he score well against the Aussies earlier in the summer? O.K Aus bowlers aren't as good as Englands but it's no coincdence his form dropped after being made skipper. I think it was a good decision to drop him down and he looked like finding his form but made a silly error to a long hop and threw his wicket away. Hopefully with Yousuf in the team, he will be under less pressure and be able to perform in the second innings.

Yea average of 30 or below against every team apart from aus proves he is rubbish.

[Sledger]

Salman Butt should be dropped, frozen and defrosted every few years for Australian series' only. His average against all other teams (including Bangladesh) is sub 25.

[Decipher]

Originally Posted by Sledger Salman Butt should be dropped, frozen and defrosted every few years for Australian series' only. His average against all other teams (including Bangladesh) is sub 25.

I have had the same assessment, but I am slightly changing my stance due his pre captaincy 'flashes in the pan'. I would perhaps tentatively keep him in the team as a regular player for a few more games before kicking him out.

[ShaazE]

Captaincy has nothing to do with it. He hasn't lost anything, things have just gone back to the way they always were.

[Sledger]

^ You're right. In test terms, it's important to note that he only made his comeback into the national side on the tour in New Zealand. That was just before the nightmare down under tour where he was one of the few who did well. He then played Aus (his favourite team) again in England and suddenly finds himself given captaincy when he's never proved himself as a test player. So basically, he's done well in two series' against the same opposition (was average Vs NZ, has been a number 10 batsman against England) and is now struggling against non-Australians once again.

[Sufian84]

butt will alwas be a player who will struggle big time in bowler friendly condition. to make him captain means he has focus on other things than just his batting. but to defend him or the pcb, there wasnt any other candidates.

[AZ]

Originally Posted by Sufian84 butt will alwas be a player who will struggle big time in bowler friendly condition. to make him captain means he has focus on other things than just his batting. but to defend him or the pcb, there wasnt any other candidates.

then how come he's so good in Australia, where the pitches are anything but batsman-friendly?

even the best would struggle to cope on the pitches in the first 3-4 Tests of this England tour.

[AZ]

Originally Posted by Stewie You obviously dont know the way Pakistani system works compared to rest of the more established and more professional organizations. Lets take a look then.. On one hand you have ECB/CA/BCCI/CSA etc 1- They have elected officials who are not under political pressure from the governing party/heirarchy 2- Regardless of change in government, the board officials maintain their policies and strategies. 3- The captain is appointed or picked on a long term basis, provided full support and backing. The appointment of captain/coached/selectors/board officials is not tainted by Political appointments of the ruling political party and the Board officials. 4- Captains have a level of control and authority in selections, etc. Now lets look at pakistan: 1- We dont have elected officials but ad hoc boards whose constituents change more times than you and I change our underwear 2- Soon as the government changes, the board officials change and the captain can kiss his career bye bye.. so no job security which means more pressure captains of other countries do not face. 3- the captain is never appointed in Pakistan on long term basis.. It has always been on series by series basis.. So one bad series such as the one against top test nations played in alien conditions and you can kiss your captaincy career bye bye 14- no level of control since this time around Butt sahib controls coaches, selectors and selections.. So my friend now you put yourself under Butt's shoes and tell me if you feel any different to Ponting, Dhoni, Strauss and Smith.

sorry but I don't really buy that, one can't use that as an excuse for poor performance on the field...Chairman/Mgmt. of the board can be blamed for many things, but not the poor performance of indviduals.

SB has to do better.

[luvthegame]

Butt is an accidental captain. He is ordinary.

[ace4rmspace]

Butt is being Butt.

[Cheguvera]

Butt's never scored against any team not named Australia...

[shaykh1985]

In fairness a quarter of his matches have been against Australia...

I hope it is just that he is struggling with the conditions...even down here he looked decent with the bat up until he took captaincy...fair enough England have utilised the conditions signficantly better than the Aussies but no-one can argue his scores have been terrible...

It would be a real shame if captaincy were to ruin one of our most improved batsmen...

[Obeid]

Originally Posted by Cheguvera Butt's never scored against any team not named Australia...

Ever heard of India?

[Arsh_afridi]

He is inconsistent since the start of his career...

[FreePalestine]

http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/...g;view=innings

His figures for the last two years. He has got a lot of starts, and done well against Australia as someone pointed out above. Think he was just beginning to come into his own ever since the latter half of the NZ series. It is a shame that the captaincy has caused a change in his fortunes. He is under pressure for runs now. The move to no. 3 proves it. Nonetheless, I think he should be persisted with as a captain (as if we have a choice). Pakistan need some kind of stability and perhaps when the situation is less chaotic, he will be able to handle the captaincy and his batting.

[Black Zero]

He is consistent inconsistently or inconsistent consistently.

[Cheguvera]

Originally Posted by Obeid Ever heard of India?

Ever heard of test matches...

[umerz]

It's just a case of poor form...He has always been a consistently average player

[Geordie Ahmed]

Originally Posted by Cheguvera Ever heard of test matches...

Ever heard of England?

[Poison]

He's a real minnow basher (Australia)

It is affecting him in a sense but again its only been 4 Tests.

[Monsee]

Butt has a lower highest score in the ongoing series when compared to all other Pak players (including bowlers) with the exception of Asif...I guess, if he wants an excuse just like he always has one for each situation, that ought to be enough for him to say I am not the worst batsman in the team :-)

Seriously, I remember how he struggled in 2006 series in England and knew he will go back to his old timid, unsure, darpok ways of batting but was hoping for a turn around this time...unfortunately my instinctive guess was spot on

Butt should be made the non-playing captain...only then his batting will not be effected and he could still do a good job at something he really looks forward to doing i.e. looking good talking with the media

[Impala_KaifTamasha]

Originally Posted by AZ been unlucky, and a poor stroke in his latest innings..form is not so bad I think.

Originally Posted by *sallu* Butt was looking excellent today for the most part, he just played a rubbish shot today But then again, can stats lie in such a big way?

Looking excellent before playing a rubbish shot...