10 reasons to support Ijaz Butt

[Usman]

I know a lot of you are attacking Butt here, but personally I am glad he said what he said. Let me explain why.

1) The ICC President is Indian. The ICC Chief Executive is Indian. Since the Mumbai bombings, every step made by India has been to isolate Pakistan from the world and I'm not just talking about the cricketing world, but the world in general.

2) The BCCI has made a concerted effort since the Mumbai bombings to exclude Pakistan, mainly by refusing to play any cricket with Pakistan. They have no interest in progressing Pakistani cricket and in fact have done quite the opposite in isolating it.

3) The PCB put its relationship with the ACB, ECB, RSA, NZ on the line when it refused the Aus-NZ nomination for ICC President. It did this to suck up to the BCCI. The fact that the BCCI was one of the boards who backed the idea of excluding Pakistan from world cricket shows their true intentions. They are using the full force to damage Pakistan.

4) The Sunday Times published a report which claimed that 29 IPL Players were involved in match fixing. Did the ICC start an investigation? Did they even look at the evidence which led to the report - NO THEY DID NOT. They refused to even look into the matter. This despite the fact that The Times is one of the most reputable newspaper groups in the country whilst NOTW and the Sun are the opposite.

5) Now onto the actual allegations. The ICC went and made a media announcement about an investigation into corruption, without first informing the PCB. Their attempts to contact Ijaz Butt were pathetic to say the least. Haroon Logart thought, we suspended the trio of players and no one raised any serious objection in Pakistan. Therefore, they are pushovers, and so much so, that we can get away with murder. Someone needed to put the ICC in their place, because we certainly aren't pushovers.

6) The corruption unit of the ICC is often investigating alleged corruption behind the media curtain and rarely does it complete its investigations in the media light. Just take the investigation on Kamran and Butt prior to this tour for example - they were happening in private. However, so determined is the ICC to destroy Pakistan, that on the eve of a match under suspicion, the ICC goes ahead and makes its investigations public. What does this do? Nothing but brings the game into more disrepute and cast doubt on performances. It would have been logical to complete the investigations to establish if the evidence was even compelling, before making their announcement to the world.

7) The latest allegations against Pakistan are absolutely ludicrous. I cannot see how our batsmen are so capable that they can dictate how many runs will be scored over any period of time.

8) The two slow overs involved firstly Fawad, who is a slow scorer to begin with. He tried playing an aggressive shot which only got him two runs. Why the hell would he play an aggressive shot if he was trying to keep runs to a minimum? Why not just loop the ball back to the bowler. The shot which went for two could have easily been a four.

9) When Fawad got out, the scoring slowed because of the loss of a wicket, as has happened for centuries in cricket. Even then, as the allegations themselves concede, the scoring slowed for just a few balls where a few of singles were taken. As amazing a hitter as Razzaq is, surely even he is allowed a few balls to get in, is he not? And in any case, with it only being the 39th over, Razzaq could not go over aggressive because there was a good deal more time to bat.

10) The allegations imply that along with Fawad, Afridi and Razzaq at least, and possibly more players were involved. Afridi has recently apologised for the actions of the other trio of alleged fixers, and I do not believe he would be stupid enough to then involve himself in such things. Not after he had seen the fate of the other players.

Granted it may not have been wise to implicate England players in this mess, without any evidence to show as of yet, but at least Butt had the guts to say something. There is a conspiracy against Pakistan, and I'm not the sort of person who would say that out of a deluded belief. The ICC (Indian Cricket Council) is surely biased in its approach, together with concerted efforts by India to undermine Pakistan in general. Thank God Ijaz Butt had the guts to say enough is enough mate, we aren't the pushovers you thought we were.

[seether1]

if u had said this a few weeks ago when the notw story broke i would have got on the floor rolled around while i lafed at ur post however i totally agree with u on this points 1 to 4 are the best i too see an Indian hand in all of this, they way things are going and how the icc is acting is very suspicious, i hope butt can back up his claim.. heres an idea why not go all out get some of the guys from the ISI to look into this i did read they are the worlds best in on pp.. pretty sure they could get to the bottom of this

[Golden arm]

The Sunday Times published a report which claimed that 29 IPL Players were involved in match fixing. Did the ICC start an investigation? Did they even look at the evidence which led to the report - NO THEY DID NOT. They refused to even look into the matter. This despite the fact that The Times is one of the most reputable newspaper groups in the country whilst NOTW and the Sun are the opposite

now thats quite strange.
infact ICC gave a statement that we are not conducting any enquiry into these IPL saga.

[the SHA]

Originally Posted by Usman Granted it may not have been wise to implicate England players in this mess, without any evidence to show as of yet, but at least Butt had the guts to say something. There is a conspiracy against Pakistan, and I'm not the sort of person who would say that out of a deluded belief. The ICC (Indian Cricket Council) is surely biased in its approach, together with concerted efforts by India to undermine Pakistan in general. Thank God Ijaz Butt had the guts to say enough is enough mate, we aren't the pushovers you thought we were.

Well in this paragraph you have just highlighted precisely why any reasonable person cannot possibly support Ijaz Butt.

If what you are saying is true about an Indian-led isolationist conspiracy against Pakistan, well Ijaz Butt has only helped it by publicly targeting England in a 'gutsy' counter-attack. Theres a word for that. STUPID.

[ECB]

So thats why Butt went to meet another Buddha? we are still going in circles, get Imran Khan as Chief

[Indiafan]

Originally Posted by Usman I know a lot of you are attacking Butt here, but personally I am glad he said what he said. Let me explain why. 1) The ICC President is Indian. The ICC Chief Executive is Indian. Since the Mumbai bombings, every step made by India has been to isolate Pakistan from the world and I'm not just talking about the cricketing world, but the world in general. This does not mean that ICC chief has the power to go to England and bribe all the media and Scotland Yard. Because this is exactly what you are saying 2) The BCCI has made a concerted effort since the Mumbai bombings to exclude Pakistan, mainly by refusing to play any cricket with Pakistan. They have no interest in progressing Pakistani cricket and in fact have done quite the opposite in isolating it. The BCCI did not take this descsion, the Indian goverment did. Get your facts straight 3) The PCB put its relationship with the ACB, ECB, RSA, NZ on the line when it refused the Aus-NZ nomination for ICC President. It did this to suck up to the BCCI. The fact that the BCCI was one of the boards who backed the idea of excluding Pakistan from world cricket shows their true intentions. They are using the full force to damage Pakistan. All this means that if some Pak players are actually guilty of fixing, BCCI should help let them go free for the sake of relationship? Is this what you are suggesting? 4) The Sunday Times published a report which claimed that 29 IPL Players were involved in match fixing. Did the ICC start an investigation? Did they even look at the evidence which led to the report - NO THEY DID NOT. They refused to even look into the matter. This despite the fact that The Times is one of the most reputable newspaper groups in the country whilst NOTW and the Sun are the opposite. The report the Times published did not claim 29 players fixed matches. It said ICC had a list of 29 players. Since ICC never had this list in the first place, what are they supposed to investigate, themselves? Again get your fact straight before writing 5) Now onto the actual allegations. The ICC went and made a media announcement about an investigation into corruption, without first informing the PCB. Their attempts to contact Ijaz Butt were pathetic to say the least. Haroon Logart thought, we suspended the trio of players and no one raised any serious objection in Pakistan. Therefore, they are pushovers, and so much so, that we can get away with murder. Someone needed to put the ICC in their place, because we certainly aren't pushovers. Or maybe they thought PCB will mess it up like last time or that some PCB officials were involved in the whole thing and so decided to keep PCB away 6) The corruption unit of the ICC is often investigating alleged corruption behind the media curtain and rarely does it complete its investigations in the media light. Just take the investigation on Kamran and Butt prior to this tour for example - they were happening in private. However, so determined is the ICC to destroy Pakistan, that on the eve of a match under suspicion, the ICC goes ahead and makes its investigations public. What does this do? Nothing but brings the game into more disrepute and cast doubt on performances. It would have been logical to complete the investigations to establish if the evidence was even compelling, before making their announcement to the world. They were forced to make the investigation public because sun published the report. ICC was forced to make a public statement to clarify things. Just like they issued a public statement when the Times accused IPL of being fixed 7) The latest allegations against Pakistan are absolutely ludicrous. I cannot see how our batsmen are so capable that they can dictate how many runs will be scored over any period of time. there are many kinds of fixing. Players can definitely dictate how less runs or how many dot-balls will be bowled. Again ICC didnt say it happened, they are just investigating Granted it may not have been wise to implicate England players in this mess, without any evidence to show as of yet, but at least Butt had the guts to say something. There is a conspiracy against Pakistan, and I'm not the sort of person who would say that out of a deluded belief. The ICC (Indian Cricket Council) is surely biased in its approach, together with concerted efforts by India to undermine Pakistan in general. Thank God Ijaz Butt had the guts to say enough is enough mate, we aren't the pushovers you thought we were. All you have succeded in is alienating your most reliable ally ECB. If you think that really helps your cause, more power to you. The players did not protest their innocence, the look on the face of Amir and Butt tells a story but if you chose to ignore all that and live in your own world its your own choice.

I have answered in bold above. I dont know why and from where you involved India in the whole mess but I take objection to it. India has nothing to do with your player's action. I know my rebuttals will be ignored by you but anyways

[seether1]

yea india cud never attack pak in any way... thats just ridiculous they love pakistan =)

[hasanmehmoodkhan]

Originally Posted by Golden arm The Sunday Times published a report which claimed that 29 IPL Players were involved in match fixing. Did the ICC start an investigation? Did they even look at the evidence which led to the report - NO THEY DID NOT. They refused to even look into the matter. This despite the fact that The Times is one of the most reputable newspaper groups in the country whilst NOTW and the Sun are the opposite now thats quite strange. infact ICC gave a statement that we are not conducting any enquiry into these IPL saga.

IPL is a domestic event hence ICC has no right to conduct investigation

[hasanmehmoodkhan]

im starting to get a bad sense about the The ICC.

[PlanetPakistan]

I do support Butt on his stance against the ICC but the accusations against the English players were ridiculous.

[Majestic_Inzi]

at last someone talking my language....

[ghulam35]

Reason number 11: Because he has managed to get under the skin of English Scum paper The Sun.

IJAZ BUTT'S astonishing comments will rightly be dismissed by many as the ramblings of a bitter, deluded old man. First things first. I can say with 99.99 per cent certainty that no England player received payment for losing last Friday's one-day international. There is nothing naive or racist about that. It is simply the facts. Butt was speaking after the ICC announced they will officially investigate The Sun's revelations that bookies knew Pakistan's scoring patterns in the match in advance. His claims cannot be glibly laughed off. It is the most incendiary accusation that he could have made and a huge insult to England's players. Andrew Strauss and his men have behaved with the utmost dignity and respect for the game of cricket while the stench of corruption has wafted around Pakistan. Now England's players are accused of being bent. The claim does not come from any old source, either. It comes from the chairman of the Pakistan Cricket Board, the person who should be trying to calm the situation. He has raised the temperature to boiling point. The players and boards from England and Pakistan now regard each other with anger and mistrust bordering on hatred. It is almost unbelievable to think the ECB went out of their way this summer to offer England as a venue for Pakistan's home matches. This is the thanks they get - and there is no chance of Pakistan returning here next summer as originally planned. This is what Butt said: "There is loud and clear talk in the bookies' circle that some English players were paid enormous amounts of money to lose the match. "No wonder there was total collapse of the English side." He added: "This is not a conspiracy to defraud bookies but a conspiracy to defraud Pakistan and Pakistan cricket. "We have taken it in hand to start our own investigations. I will be revealing names of people and organisations who are involved." Coach Waqar Younis added: "I don't know what to do. You win, you're a fixer - you lose, you're a fixer. "We won that last match fair and square." As the latest chapter in the betting scandal unfolded, I have also discovered that Indian bookies changed their markets during last Friday's one-dayer at The Oval because they feared a fix. Bookies offer betting brackets - when punters gamble on the total runs scored in a certain number of overs. Normally, this is after 10, 20, 30 and 50 overs. But the brackets were suddenly switched on Friday to eight, 16, 26 and 50 overs.

Source:http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...you-idiot.html

[Gollum]

One and only reason for not supporting Butt:

1. If you don't want to see Pakistan get banned/isolated/marginalized from international cricket, get rid of this Bufoon ASAP!!!

[Golden arm]

Originally Posted by Indiafan I have answered in bold above. I dont know why and from where you involved India in the whole mess but I take objection to it. India has nothing to do with your player's action. I know my rebuttals will be ignored by you but anyways

is there any difference between BCCI and indian government.

LOOK at SHARAD POWAR controlling ICC and BCCI , one of the ministers in government.

its a shameful cover, both are one and same thing. just like every other country in subcontinent, cricket is run by politicians.

[IM NOT YOU]

good thread and agree with many of your points.

[jaspa888]

Originally Posted by Usman 4) The Sunday Times published a report which claimed that 29 IPL Players were involved in match fixing. Did the ICC start an investigation? Did they even look at the evidence which led to the report - NO THEY DID NOT. They refused to even look into the matter. This despite the fact that The Times is one of the most reputable newspaper groups in the country whilst NOTW and the Sun are the opposite.

The Sunday Times, NOTW and the Sun newspaper are all owned by the same group, NewsCorp International.

[wasim-fan]

Originally Posted by Golden arm is there any difference between BCCI and indian government. LOOK at SHARAD POWAR controlling ICC and BCCI , one of the ministers in government. its a shameful cover, both are one and same thing. just like every other country in subcontinent, cricket is run by politicians.

Actually there is no connection. I suggest you to go through the events in the aftermath of IPL 3 and sacking of Modi.

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by gollumbird One and only reason for not supporting Butt: 1. If you don't want to see Pakistan get banned/isolated/marginalized from international cricket, get rid of this Bufoon ASAP!!!

If we lose, we fixed the match. If we win , we fixed the match.

Enough is enough. Buffoon or not, his reaction was not totally illogical.

[jaspa888]

Originally Posted by waqar_ahmad If we lose, we fixed the match. If we win , we fixed the match. Enough is enough. Buffoon or not, his reaction was not totally illogical.

We are talking about spot fixing, not match fixing. The result of the match is irrelevant.

His reaction, to aimlessly fling mud at others before sorting out our own issues first, is illogical.

Pak cricket is dirty because the PCB have constantly failed to sort out the roots of the problem, and largely ignored the findings odf the Qayyum Report.

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by jaspa888 We are talking about spot fixing, not match fixing. The result of the match is irrelevant. His reaction, to aimlessly fling mud at others before sorting out our own issues first, is illogical. Pak cricket is dirty because the PCB have constantly failed to sort out the roots of the problem, and largely ignored the findings odf the Qayyum Report.

So let me get this straight. 3 pak batters fell cheaply, umar akmal and moyo didnt score, and yet pak won. How did this happen? In this scenario, match fixing and spot fixing are not really THAT different. They were different in case of no balls, but not here.

Any crappy british tabloid can decide to throw dirt at pakistan, and the ICC just falls for it.

Screw british media, and screw the ICC.

[Saqs]

Usman, as respected a poster as you are, I don't agree with your conclusions about the BCCI.

What exactly do they plan to achieve with isolating Pakistan from World Cricket? Indo-Pak games surely are the pinnacle for any sporting organiser, sponsorships, media contracts etc.
One thing about conspiracies is - 99% of the time they are about the $$ and power and not some deep sinister motive to eradicate an old enemy (unless that old enemy is a current threat) In the cricketing balance of power, we are anything but a threat.

Agreed with point 4. It is strange that the 29 IPL players (which will most definitely include international players) has been put on the bench. Just screams out saying "Surely, if a Pakistani player isn't involved, then there could have been no matchfixing!" Even to a Neutral observer that makes you wonder why they were so quick to brush that under the carpet.

Points 7 to 10 regarding the actual game are all completely valid. And I am perplexed as to how you could, watching the game, even think of accusing the team of fixing. But then to go out to the world media and announce another investigation?

[jaspa888]

Originally Posted by waqar_ahmad So let me get this straight. 3 pak batters fell cheaply, umar akmal and moyo didnt score, and yet pak won. How did this happen? In this scenario, match fixing and spot fixing are not really THAT different. They were different in case of no balls, but not here. Any crappy british tabloid can decide to throw dirt at pakistan, and the ICC just falls for it. Screw british media, and screw the ICC.

It wasnt wickets but scoring patterns that are being investigated. And those same scoring patterns had been reported before the match by the Sun to the ICC.

Why would the ICC make this **** up? If they wanted to ban Pakistan, they have had plenty of opportunities to do so beforehand. Instead, they have helped Pakistan through the last couple of years.

The British media is indeed the most obsessive in the world, but the libel laws are also strongest in the UK which means that they have to be fairly accurate if they are making allegations.

[waqar_ahmad]

Originally Posted by jaspa888 It wasnt wickets but scoring patterns that are being investigated. And those same scoring patterns had been reported before the match by the Sun to the ICC. Why would the ICC make this **** up? If they wanted to ban Pakistan, they have had plenty of opportunities to do so beforehand. Instead, they have helped Pakistan through the last couple of years. The British media is indeed the most obsessive in the world, but the libel laws are also strongest in the UK which means that they have to be fairly accurate if they are making allegations.

I am talking about scoring patterns. How can you expect a team to win by deliberately underscoring at various stages of the game.

As for british laws, where have they been in the past? The british media has accused pakistan of everything on all the tours. All of our bowlers haev been accused of ball tampering. Where these accusations ever proved? Where was the british legal system then?

[aqeelPK]

Originally Posted by hasanmehmoodkhan IPL is a domestic event hence ICC has no right to conduct investigation

So, you mean icc has nothing to do with domestic cricket? Players can do whatever they want to do in such domestic events?Then what was wrong with ICL? Why was ICL banned? Why any player playing in ICL was not allowed to play international cricket? and whats up with that news of ICC giving the clean chit to IPL 3?

[wasim-fan]

Originally Posted by waqar_ahmad I am talking about scoring patterns. How can you expect a team to win by deliberately underscoring at various stages of the game. As for british laws, where have they been in the past? The british media has accused pakistan of everything on all the tours. All of our bowlers haev been accused of ball tampering. Where these accusations ever proved? Where was the british legal system then?

Did you expect them to deliberately ball "No balls" ? I didn't. Btw chk out the entire Majeed interview on underscoring

[aqeelPK]

Originally Posted by jaspa888 We are talking about spot fixing, not match fixing. The result of the match is irrelevant. His reaction, to aimlessly fling mud at others before sorting out our own issues first, is illogical. Pak cricket is dirty because the PCB have constantly failed to sort out the roots of the problem, and largely ignored the findings odf the Qayyum Report.

When Ijaz Butt says that the bookies knew the pattern of english inns then its illogical and fling mud at the others? and when Sun says the same thing about Pakistan's inns then its an evidence and you thank the SUN and start the investigation even before the end of Pak inns?

[jaspa888]

Originally Posted by waqar_ahmad I am talking about scoring patterns. How can you expect a team to win by deliberately underscoring at various stages of the game. As for british laws, where have they been in the past? The british media has accused pakistan of everything on all the tours. All of our bowlers haev been accused of ball tampering. Where these accusations ever proved? Where was the british legal system then?

Scoring patterns doesnt necessarily relate to the number of runs, but can also refer to the frequency and order of the scoring, e.g. There are many combinations and permutations to score 10 runs in the 40th over (3-0-3-4-0-0, 1-1-2-2-0-4, etc).

As for these 'false' allegations in the past, why havent the accused ever sued the British media if they were without foundation? As many celebrities have proven, UK is the best country to sue in for libel. So why no legal action?

[jaspa888]

Originally Posted by aqeelPK When Ijaz Butt says that the bookies knew the pattern of english inns then its illogical and fling mud at the others? and when Sun says the same thing about Pakistan's inns then its an evidence and you thank the SUN and start the investigation even before the end of Pak inns?

The vital difference is that the SUn reported its allegations to the ICC before the match, while the fat buddha is making his allegations after the match. If he'd heard these rumours before, why didnt he, as a senior cricket executive, let the iCC know?

[muzher]

1. He is Ijaz Butt
2. He is Ijaz Butt
3. He is Ijaz Butt
4. He is Ijaz Butt
5. He is Ijaz Butt
6. He is Ijaz Butt
7. He is Ijaz Butt
8. He is Ijaz Butt
9. He is Ijaz Butt
10. He is Ijaz Butt

I guess you look at it as win-win for Pak fans. If, and this seems highly likely, Ijaz is spouting rubbish like the clown we know he is, he'll be that much closer to the sack. If by some miracle his crazy ramblings are true, he'll exposed serious corruption.

Hmm, but in situation 1, we will likely end up with an even worse Zadari chamcha as PCB chair....Oh well.

[aqeelPK]

Originally Posted by jaspa888 The vital difference is that the SUn reported its allegations to the ICC before the match, while the fat buddha is making his allegations after the match. If he'd heard these rumours before, why didnt he, as a senior cricket executive, let the iCC know?

Coz he had more dealings with the ICC than us and he knew ICC would do nothing. and what allegations are you talking about? I am sure 90% of cricket fans can predict that Pakistan will score less than 70 runs from over 31 to 40 when they are already 4 wkts down in first 30 overs. What if i call one of my friends in mumbai or dubai and he tells me that England will score under 80 runs from their first 10 overs in 4th ODI and that he has top 4 english batsmen in his pocket and they will make sure the fix is carried out? and then i send the recording of this call to the icc alongside with a couple of pictures of english players with desi person (bookie) before the start of match. and if england scores under 80 then would they suspend the english players then?

[jaspa888]

Originally Posted by aqeelPK Coz he had more dealings with the ICC than us and he knew ICC would do nothing. and what allegations are you talking about? I am sure 90% of cricket fans can predict that Pakistan will score less than 70 runs from over 31 to 40 when they are already 4 wkts down in first 30 overs. What if i call one of my friends in mumbai or dubai and he tells me that England will score under 80 runs from their first 10 overs in 4th ODI and that he has top 4 english batsmen in his pocket and they will make sure the fix is carried out? and then i send the recording of this call to the icc alongside with a couple of pictures of english players with desi person (bookie) before the start of match. and if england scores under 80 then would they suspend the english players then?

Dont be so silly. You think the ICC is more likely to act on more on the allegations made by some ragbag tabloid than the PCB Chairman? Its all in the evidence.

Secondly, try and understand what these allegations of spot fixing is about. It is not the number of runs scored, per se, but the scoring patterns within an over, i.e. the order the runs are scored. within an over.

If you think you can predict that correctly, please also give me next week's lottery numbers.

[aqeelPK]

Originally Posted by jaspa888 Dont be so silly. You think the ICC is more likely to act on more on the allegations made by some ragbag tabloid than the PCB Chairman? Its all in the evidence. Secondly, try and understand what these allegations of spot fixing is about. It is not the number of runs scored, per se, but the scoring patterns within an over, i.e. the order the runs are scored. within an over. If you think you can predict that correctly, please also give me next week's lottery numbers.

For me, information provided by some board's chairman after the game is more important than information provided by some tabloid before the game.
and do you really think that Pakistani batsmen are that good that they can score according to a certain pattern in a particular over?lol
and which bookie on earth gives the rate on scoring pattern for a particular over in an inns? and who bets on that? did the SUN mention any name of bookie who told them about it? did they tell any amount of money which was bet on this event?did they tell which Pakistani players earned money from this fix? Do they have any evidence that afridi and fawad will be on crease in 39th and 40th over before the start of inns? Or did they claim the whole Pakistan team is involved? or Pakistani players are that genious to make sure a certain pair is at the crease at a certain stage in an inns?

[jaspa888]

Originally Posted by aqeelPK For me, information provided by some board's chairman after the game is more important than information provided by some tabloid before the game. and do you really think that Pakistani batsmen are that good that they can score according to a certain pattern in a particular over?lol and which bookie on earth gives the rate on scoring pattern for a particular over in an inns? and who bets on that? did the SUN mention any name of bookie who told them about it? did they tell any amount of money which was bet on this event?did they tell which Pakistani players earned money from this fix? Do they have any evidence that afridi and fawad will be on crease in 39th and 40th over before the start of inns? Or did they claim the whole Pakistan team is involved? or Pakistani players are that genious to make sure a certain pair is at the crease at a certain stage in an inns?

At least be consistent when you try and debate a point. You claim Butt didnt go to the ICC because he wouldnt be believed, yet the ICC acted on the Sun's allegations meaning that the ICC sees the Sun as a more credible witness. But then you claim Butt is mnore credible? Make up your mind...

Dont embarass yourself regarding the spot fixing. There is a huge market in India and the Middle East with bookies offering odds on exactly what you are dismissing. Scoring patterns, number of no balls, time of first boundary, number of runs scored in the 12th over, etc.

I dont know the level of evidence the Sun has - no-one does. One thing is for sure though. It was convincing enough to spook the largely lethargic ICC into action.

[sakss]

he loves food ?

[Dr_Bassim]

Originally Posted by aqeelPK For me, information provided by some board's chairman after the game is more important than information provided by some tabloid before the game. and do you really think that Pakistani batsmen are that good that they can score according to a certain pattern in a particular over?lol and which bookie on earth gives the rate on scoring pattern for a particular over in an inns? and who bets on that? did the SUN mention any name of bookie who told them about it? did they tell any amount of money which was bet on this event?did they tell which Pakistani players earned money from this fix? Do they have any evidence that afridi and fawad will be on crease in 39th and 40th over before the start of inns? Or did they claim the whole Pakistan team is involved? or Pakistani players are that genious to make sure a certain pair is at the crease at a certain stage in an inns?

Lmao... Do you know how the Board Chairman got elected ?

Before you support him... just becuz he is Board chairman.. ponder for a moment how he came to power... as PCB head.

I do NOT trust the tabloid at all.... I trust Butt even less than tabloids...

You just want to trust him , because you think he improved our image... On the contrary, he destroyed any semblance of sanity they thought existed in Pakistani cricket.....

[Dr_Bassim]

The only valid reason for not supporting Butt is ....

1. As head of a cricket Committee... his reactions are amazing.. He admits to having contact with bookies...

2. Do you see Giles Clarke saying Pakistani cricketers fixed matches ? On the contrary, he wanted the tour to continue.

3. The target of Butt's attack should have been the media not the English players, who had our back all the time.

4. If you really wanted to prove a point, our media should have said, the English players fixed the matches.. If our media cannot be so strong its not English media's fault.

5. Before we give Butt any plaudits , do you really think Butt has any evidence, for this.. or is this just because he decided, that he has to utter some nonsense...

6. As far as ICC is concerned, it was never on our side, as you clearly point out. Having Butt, accuse English players will not help ICC take our side...

7. Our Chairman's comments are so unimportant, he was not even charged with bringing the game into disrepute.

8. I seriously doubt even English players and media took him seriously, do you think ICC really took him seriously

9. Most of us laughed at his stupidness. Only some emotionally charged fans, just see this as a good omen.

10. The only thing he has done is isolate us even more in international cricket, certainly hasnt made us any fonder with the Indian Cricket Council or ECB or any cricket board for that matter.

What do you honestly want? An apartheid like South Africa in
Pakistan cricket....?

[BroskiBeat]

1. You are an uneducated Pakistani who is incapable of rational thought.

2. You are an uneducated Pakistani who is incapable of rational thought.

3. You are an uneducated Pakistani who is incapable of rational thought.

4. You get the picture...

[Phuzz]

Ijaz Butt is a complete fool for making such allegations. You guys were calling for his head only last week, and now he's your number 1 fan.

[Desire]

Originally Posted by fuzuk2007 Ijaz Butt is a complete fool for making such allegations. You guys were calling for his head only last week, and now he's your number 1 fan.

this is not surprising. tommorow ijazz butt will be evil again and day after tommorow a hero.

[anakin]

To all the Pakistanis ......... not playing against Pakistan is a major monetary loss to BCCI. An Ind - Pak series was the golden hen for both countries but due to some gun totting idiots, it s done for.

[Passion4Pakistan]

Mr. Sarad Powar is corrupted person. And well known back in India for his Corruption. Now, where a Corrupted Person Ruling Cricket's Highest Organization, Then I think, No Player Should be banned for corrupting in Cricket.. Because, ICC has lost its right by selecting corrupted person as its head.

[Passion4Pakistan]

Originally Posted by wasim-fan Did you expect them to deliberately ball "No balls" ? I didn't. Btw chk out the entire Majeed interview on underscoring

Its simply Amazing that you believe a bad guy who have bad records in the past. But you do not want to believe these players who played for the country and became national pride until they were suspended.

[Dr_Bassim]

Originally Posted by Passion4Pakistan Its simply Amazing that you believe a bad guy who have bad records in the past. But you do not want to believe these players who played for the country and became national pride until they were suspended.

i wouldnt have believed it too...

Until i saw that Aamir no ball.... Cmon' you expect me to believe he went that much over the line by accident ?

He was a foot over the line !!!!

[Usman]

Originally Posted by Saqib Salman Usman, as respected a poster as you are, I don't agree with your conclusions about the BCCI. What exactly do they plan to achieve with isolating Pakistan from World Cricket? Indo-Pak games surely are the pinnacle for any sporting organiser, sponsorships, media contracts etc. One thing about conspiracies is - 99% of the time they are about the $$ and power and not some deep sinister motive to eradicate an old enemy (unless that old enemy is a current threat) In the cricketing balance of power, we are anything but a threat. Agreed with point 4. It is strange that the 29 IPL players (which will most definitely include international players) has been put on the bench. Just screams out saying "Surely, if a Pakistani player isn't involved, then there could have been no matchfixing!" Even to a Neutral observer that makes you wonder why they were so quick to brush that under the carpet. Points 7 to 10 regarding the actual game are all completely valid. And I am perplexed as to how you could, watching the game, even think of accusing the team of fixing. But then to go out to the world media and announce another investigation?

I totally agree that the BCCI purely as a cricket board would benefit from a Indo-Pak series. However, it would be naive for us to think of the BCCI like that because it is not only a cricketing body with major political influences. Pakistan for India is not an old enemy, but since the Mumbai attacks, it is a current enemy. Therefore, the Indian government has taken it upon themselves to cause as much harm as it can to Pakistan without a full blooded war. One of the ways it can harm Pakistan is to exclude it from the cricketing world. Cricket is a sport close to the hearts of both Pakistanis and Indians, and so this is the perfect way for them to attack us.

In any case, it is easy for us to overestimate the importance of an Indo-Pak series for India. Our cricket board may have no money, but the Indians are rolling in it, especially since the advent of the IPL. Not playing Pakistan for the next 10 years won't make a financial dent in the BCCI`s budget.

[ShehryarK]

Originally Posted by Usman The ICC Chief Executive is Indian

He's South African - not Indian by any stretch of imagination.

Originally Posted by Usman Granted it may not have been wise to implicate England players in this mess

Not only was it not wise, it was stupid and moronic of Butt to do so, and the way he did that - without planning, without thinking, without evidence and without any consultation.

Your whole post is a rant at BCCI and India, and whilst that may, or may not have merit (most of your posts generally do), how is officially and formally insulting and abusing English cricket and the ECB, perhaps our only allies against the "Big Bad BCCI", anything but a moronic move?

Originally Posted by Usman The ICC (Indian Cricket Council) is surely biased in its approach.

Exactly - even if it is, that's even more reason for the PCB to seek alliances, form allies and make its case. That's how politics and international diplomacy works! Not by PCB isolating itself and shouting like a stroppy teenager

[sporticus]

Originally Posted by waqar_ahmad Any crappy british tabloid can decide to throw dirt at pakistan, and the ICC just falls for it. Screw british media, and screw the ICC.

Yes exactly Pakistan doesnt need anyone to play against and again how dare the media present clear and reliable evidence .

[mastermind_quad]

whatever your Logic & reasoning @Usman ..for the sake of Pak cricket I want ECB to not take Butt's statement seriously and act as Matured as they have done throughout this saga...!!!

[*sallu*]

Originally Posted by Golden arm The Sunday Times published a report which claimed that 29 IPL Players were involved in match fixing. Did the ICC start an investigation? Did they even look at the evidence which led to the report - NO THEY DID NOT. They refused to even look into the matter. This despite the fact that The Times is one of the most reputable newspaper groups in the country whilst NOTW and the Sun are the opposite now thats quite strange. infact ICC gave a statement that we are not conducting any enquiry into these IPL saga.

Someone should ask Lorgat this question

[Dr_Bassim]

Originally Posted by mastermind_quad whatever your Logic & reasoning @Usman ..for the sake of Pak cricket I want ECB to not take Butt's statement seriously and act as Matured as they have done throughout this saga...!!!

ON SKY


The England and Wales Cricket Board is aware of the claims from Mr Butt. It has yet to respond and is considering whether to react.

A spokesman for the International Cricket Council said the world body was unaware of the PCB chairman's claims.

I doubt anyone is taking him seriously. No Worries.

[mastermind_quad]

Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim ON SKY The England and Wales Cricket Board is aware of the claims from Mr Butt. It has yet to respond and is considering whether to react. A spokesman for the International Cricket Council said the world body was unaware of the PCB chairman's claims. I doubt anyone is taking him seriously. No Worries.

Possibly they know the history of Butt's prior statements....
Good for Pak...

[Usman]

Originally Posted by ShehryarK He's South African - not Indian by any stretch of imagination. Not only was it not wise, it was stupid and moronic of Butt to do so, and the way he did that - without planning, without thinking, without evidence and without any consultation. Your whole post is a rant at BCCI and India, and whilst that may, or may not have merit (most of your posts generally do), how is officially and formally insulting and abusing English cricket and the ECB, perhaps our only allies against the "Big Bad BCCI", anything but a moronic move? Exactly - even if it is, that's even more reason for the PCB to seek alliances, form allies and make its case. That's how politics and international diplomacy works! Not by PCB isolating itself and shouting like a stroppy teenager

As I said before, I totally agree that the England players shouldn't have been dragged into this.

However, as I have already demonstrated, the PCB's attempts to make alliances with the BCCI have not worked and instead, the BCCI is doing the opposite of co-operating by backing the idea of banning Pakistan from the cricket world. The step taken by the PCB to reject the Aus-NZ nomination for ICC Presidency was a brave one because firstly it was totally against convention to reject a nomination, and secondly, it jeopardised Pakistan's cricketing relationships with four cricket boards, three of whom at least (Aus, End, RSA) are cricket powerhouses. This was diplomatic move to patch things up with the BCCI. They have not repaid the favour. Rightly or wrongly, Ijaz Butt has been begging the BCCI for a Pak-Indo series, which has consistently been rejected by the BCCI.

Haroon Logart may have the words South Africa on his passport, but he is an Indian in truth. The ICC President is also the BCCI President and also a member of the Indian government.

Let me tell you why allegations against IPL players are dealt with so softly. The cricketing world is run on India's command because India is by far the most powerful cricketing nation that is part of the ICC. The ICC cannot afford to strain ties with India because the ICC desperately needs India. If India doesn't want Pakistan to be part of the deal then neither does the ICC.

Anybody who assumes that the ICC is politically impartial needs to open their eyes. The ICC will act in its commercial interests, and those interests have close links to Indian cricket.

The danger of having one superpower cricket board was pointed out by many commentators when the Aus-NZ nomination for ICC Presidency was rejected. At the time many people rejected this as whinging, as people will do now. I believe however we are now seeing Pakistani cricket effectively being killed off by that very superpower.

[jeetu]

Originally Posted by Usman I know a lot of you are attacking Butt here, but personally I am glad he said what he said. Let me explain why. 1) The ICC President is Indian. The ICC Chief Executive is Indian. Since the Mumbai bombings, every step made by India has been to isolate Pakistan from the world and I'm not just talking about the cricketing world, but the world in general. 2) The BCCI has made a concerted effort since the Mumbai bombings to exclude Pakistan, mainly by refusing to play any cricket with Pakistan. They have no interest in progressing Pakistani cricket and in fact have done quite the opposite in isolating it. 3) The PCB put its relationship with the ACB, ECB, RSA, NZ on the line when it refused the Aus-NZ nomination for ICC President. It did this to suck up to the BCCI. The fact that the BCCI was one of the boards who backed the idea of excluding Pakistan from world cricket shows their true intentions. They are using the full force to damage Pakistan. 4) The Sunday Times published a report which claimed that 29 IPL Players were involved in match fixing. Did the ICC start an investigation? Did they even look at the evidence which led to the report - NO THEY DID NOT. They refused to even look into the matter. This despite the fact that The Times is one of the most reputable newspaper groups in the country whilst NOTW and the Sun are the opposite. 5) Now onto the actual allegations. The ICC went and made a media announcement about an investigation into corruption, without first informing the PCB. Their attempts to contact Ijaz Butt were pathetic to say the least. Haroon Logart thought, we suspended the trio of players and no one raised any serious objection in Pakistan. Therefore, they are pushovers, and so much so, that we can get away with murder. Someone needed to put the ICC in their place, because we certainly aren't pushovers. 6) The corruption unit of the ICC is often investigating alleged corruption behind the media curtain and rarely does it complete its investigations in the media light. Just take the investigation on Kamran and Butt prior to this tour for example - they were happening in private. However, so determined is the ICC to destroy Pakistan, that on the eve of a match under suspicion, the ICC goes ahead and makes its investigations public. What does this do? Nothing but brings the game into more disrepute and cast doubt on performances. It would have been logical to complete the investigations to establish if the evidence was even compelling, before making their announcement to the world. 7) The latest allegations against Pakistan are absolutely ludicrous. I cannot see how our batsmen are so capable that they can dictate how many runs will be scored over any period of time. 8) The two slow overs involved firstly Fawad, who is a slow scorer to begin with. He tried playing an aggressive shot which only got him two runs. Why the hell would he play an aggressive shot if he was trying to keep runs to a minimum? Why not just loop the ball back to the bowler. The shot which went for two could have easily been a four. 9) When Fawad got out, the scoring slowed because of the loss of a wicket, as has happened for centuries in cricket. Even then, as the allegations themselves concede, the scoring slowed for just a few balls where a few of singles were taken. As amazing a hitter as Razzaq is, surely even he is allowed a few balls to get in, is he not? And in any case, with it only being the 39th over, Razzaq could not go over aggressive because there was a good deal more time to bat. 10) The allegations imply that along with Fawad, Afridi and Razzaq at least, and possibly more players were involved. Afridi has recently apologised for the actions of the other trio of alleged fixers, and I do not believe he would be stupid enough to then involve himself in such things. Not after he had seen the fate of the other players. Granted it may not have been wise to implicate England players in this mess, without any evidence to show as of yet, but at least Butt had the guts to say something. There is a conspiracy against Pakistan, and I'm not the sort of person who would say that out of a deluded belief. The ICC (Indian Cricket Council) is surely biased in its approach, together with concerted efforts by India to undermine Pakistan in general. Thank God Ijaz Butt had the guts to say enough is enough mate, we aren't the pushovers you thought we were.

Kudos to you for finding 10. Most will struggle for 1.