Tanvir Ahmed's selection over Mohammad Sami

[Gollum]

What is the justification of selectors selecting Tanvir Ahmed over Mohammad Sami. While we can agree Sami is a terrible Test bowler, but his ODI record is too good to be ignored. He could have been a very useful new ball bowler considering we are missing the services of Amir and Asif. Combine that with the fact that Tanvir hasn't played any cricket at the highest level and is not young, it is mind boggling that he was selected! Here are the relevant limited overs stats of Tanvir and Sami:

	Mat	Inns	Balls	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	4w	5w	10

Sami
ODIs	83	81	4094	3357	118	5/10	5/10	28.44	4.91	34.6	3	1	0
List A	125		6228	5129	186	6/20	6/20	27.57	4.94	33.4	5	2	0

Tanvir
List A	60		2719	2569	72	3/27	3/27	35.68	5.66	37.7	0	0	0

[cricmylife]

+1

[zimran72]

Not sure. Isn't Tanvir an all rounder though? Also it's hard to ignore Tanvir considering he took 95 wickets in FC cricket. I know it is a different format but still.

As for Sami, even though in ODI's he is a strike bowler he is not as good as Akhtar or Gul. He is erratic so it is likely he might go for 70 runs in one game and lose the match.

[cricketpassion]

We dont have Asif ,Amir so Sami should have been better option but its PCB what do you expect .

[mon858]

I would have picked Rao Iftikhar or Rana Naved given that we had shoaib/Gul already there as strike bowlers

[786warrior]

It's like choosing between two liabilities???

as for mon858 suggesting Rana - come on man, how much money you got riding on this series!!!

[Acim]

Originally Posted by gollumbird What is the justification of selectors selecting Tanvir Ahmed over Mohammad Sami. While we can agree Sami is a terrible Test bowler, but his ODI record is too good to be ignored. He could have been a very useful new ball bowler considering we are missing the services of Amir and Asif. Combine that with the fact that Tanvir hasn't played any cricket at the highest level and is not young, it is mind boggling that he was selected! Here are the relevant limited overs stats of Tanvir and Sami: Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 4w 5w 10 Sami ODIs 83 81 4094 3357 118 5/10 5/10 28.44 4.91 34.6 3 1 0 List A 125 6228 5129 186 6/20 6/20 27.57 4.94 33.4 5 2 0 Tanvir List A 60 2719 2569 72 3/27 3/27 35.68 5.66 37.7 0 0 0

*Edit* did not realize that the squad has been announced.

[mon858]

ok, yes that was assuming all the players banned earlier in the year are forgiven and are available for selection. but i agree if that is not the case, then Rao for sure. what has he done wrong everytime he was given a chance.

[786warrior]

Originally Posted by mon858 ok, yes that was assuming all the players banned earlier in the year are forgiven and are available for selection. but i agree if that is not the case, then Rao for sure. what has he done wrong everytime he was given a chance.

Totally cool with Rao - if he really is the best we have???? He is a genuine and honest trier - a rare breed in Pakistan!

I used to be a big fan of Rana - he single handedly destroyed west indies a few years back - but no amount of begging and apologies can absolve a self confessed traitor!!

[zimran72]

Definitely agree on Rao. He seems a very effective line and length bowler. Good choice as an economical bowler.

Sami, well the history he has with no-balls, I'm glad he hasn't been selected. Rana has also proven to be expensive in the past, plus he is like 45 now.

[161]

Tanvir's selection over Wahab is the more interesting question.

Looks like PCB finally getting serious the against the fixers.

[zahid01]

sami has had plenty chances to show what he can do so far he has done nothing give tanvir the chance see if he justifies his inclusion in the squad

[shezad210]

I would have selected at least 4 bowlers ahead of Tanvir... But that is Pakistan...

[Amjid Javed]

Any one in pakistan should be picked ahead of sami and given a go! samis had his 10 million chances already!

[IMMY69]

Originally Posted by zahid01 sami has had plenty chances to show what he can do so far he has done nothing give tanvir the chance see if he justifies his inclusion in the squad

Urmm did you forget your glasses?? Look at the opening post and Sami's odi stats!!

[AZ]

nonsense, Tanvir deserves to be there based on sheer performance.

[IMMY69]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed Any one in pakistan should be picked ahead of sami and given a go! samis had his 10 million chances already!

But he's not a failure in odi's, in fact anything but a failure!!

[IMMY69]

Originally Posted by Ahmed Zulfiqar nonsense, Tanvir deserves to be there based on sheer performance.

Surely based on firstclass performances the player who most deserves a place is Yasir Arafat??

[DeadlyVenom]

Anyway to get stats for the past 10 matches or so?

[AZ]

Originally Posted by IMMY69 Surely based on firstclass performances the player who most deserves a place is Yasir Arafat??

there are quite a few people that can say they should be selected, but it does not mean Sami or anyone else should be there in place of Tanvir.

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by IMMY69 But he's not a failure in odi's, in fact anything but a failure!!

I did a thread a few years ago on sami in odis and up until just before Bob woolmer took over he had a good ODI record.

After that point he was awful!

[AZ]

Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom Anyway to get stats for the past 10 matches or so?

Sami has picked up 14 wickets in his last 10 ODIs.

but those go back a loooong time

[Masterji]

Sami has great attitude(something that is missing from most pakistanis) but he is essentially thick, and that has held his progress back. Inject him with some extra brain cells and he will become a world beater.

[IMMY69]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed I did a thread a few years ago on sami in odis and up until just before Bob woolmer took over he had a good ODI record. After that point he was awful!

And that was a very good piece of writing..

Sami has a very decent overall record in Odi's but I can see why there maybe a need to move on from him...

HOWEVER, I see no point whatsoever in picking young guys or slightly overage decentish firstclass bowlers.. In fact with our pathetic selection policies working in conjunction with an inept management team, we may as well stick with picking the tried and tested failures!!!

Look behind the charade of picking new guys and you'll
see that the only chance of a prolonged stay in the side is if you do
remarkly be well in your first few games or are simply well connected with the heirarchy!! This is why I bring up the 'Arafat' example!!

[Sledger]

Neither of these players should be in the squad. This spot belongs to Rao and Rao only.

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by Amjid Javed I did a thread a few years ago on sami in odis and up until just before Bob woolmer took over he had a good ODI record. After that point he was awful!

1st 50 odis - April 2001 - March 2004

48 Inns 82 wickets 25.09 Average 4.93 econ 30.5 s/r - 3 (4wkts) 1 (5wkts)

** Sami averaging 1.71 wickets per game which is brilliant in ODIs **

last 33 odis - july 2004 - may 2007

33 inns 36 wickets 36.08 Average 4.90 econ 44.19 s/r - 0 (4wkts) 0 (5wkts)

** sami then started to average 1.09 wickets per game at an average of 36.08 and a strike rate of 44.19

thats a huge decline and drop in performances!

[IMMY69]

Originally Posted by Sledger Neither of these players should be in the squad. This spot belongs to Rao and Rao only.

If it were any other country then YES!!

Because it's Pakistan I think there is more chances of the pope filming a porno then the selectors making the right decisions!!

Another example.. Umar Amin looks decent in
the Asia cup, gets picked to play in tests on
swinging, seaming tracks and has to bat at number 4 without any senior batsmen to help him.. What happens next?? He's knowhere to be seen!!!

[Amjid Javed]

Originally Posted by IMMY69 And that was a very good piece of writing.. Sami has a very decent overall record in Odi's but I can see why there maybe a need to move on from him... HOWEVER, I see no point whatsoever in picking young guys or slightly overage decentish firstclass bowlers.. In fact with our pathetic selection policies working in conjunction with an inept management team, we may as well stick with picking the tried and tested failures!!! Look behind the charade of picking new guys and you'll see that the only chance of a prolonged stay in the side is if you do remarkly be well in your first few games or are simply well connected with the heirarchy!! This is why I bring up the 'Arafat' example!!

To be honest am not really sure why arafats never been given a real chance in ODIs for pakistan. we need a decent bowling all rounder.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by Sledger Neither of these players should be in the squad. This spot belongs to Rao and Rao only.

No. Rao's ODI record is still poorer than Sami's.

ODIs 	62	60	2960	2430	77	5/30	5/30	31.55	4.92	38.4	2	1	0

[jazba]

Originally Posted by Sledger Neither of these players should be in the squad. This spot belongs to Rao and Rao only.

Sure, Rao's 77 wickets @31.55 are way better
ODIs 62 60 2960 2430 77 5/30 5/30 31.55

[Sledger]

Doesn't matter. Rao had done nothing to be dropped. He bowled well in Australia and has done well (for a backup) whenever called, he's been hard done by.

[1137moiz]

Rao, Sami, both deserve a spot ahead of Tanvir Ahmed in the LOI team. He's the sort of line and length merchant who normally relies on a bit of movement. If anything he was a Test alternative in England which could have suited him. Here, though I hope he proves me wrong, I see a shellacking

[jazba]

Originally Posted by Sledger Doesn't matter. Rao had done nothing to be dropped. He bowled well in Australia and has done well (for a backup) whenever called, he's been hard done by.

I does matter! He should have an excellent record if he's always done well, right?

[Sledger]

Originally Posted by jazba I does matter! He should have an excellent record if he's always done well, right?

Yes, because a career record of 60 games shows how well someone has done recently rather than over a span of 6 years.

My mistake!

[jazba]

Originally Posted by Sledger Yes, because a career record of 60 games shows how well someone has done recently rather than over a span of 6 years. My mistake!

Rao's been very impressive the last 12 months with an amazing average of 103 per wicket.

[Sledger]

You're not being serious are you?

From 2 games?! Earth shattering analysis.

In 08/09 Season he played 5 -> avg. 23.
In 09 Season he played 4 -> avg. 21.

So over double and eactly double the sample size respectively and he's averaging in the 20s.

Didn't you'd think I'd look up your stats? Nothing gets past the

[Pakprideuk]

no point comparing raos stats to samis because rao was very unlucky and didn't take too many wickets, he bowled brilliantly and swung the ball, he bowled good lines and lengths in long spells.

[Desire]

you got a point. sami deserves a chance in odis over tanveer ahmed

[iZeeshan]

I would have picked Rao. His line and length results in good economy rates and would've been the best supplement to the strike bowlers Shoaib and Gul

[jazba]

Originally Posted by Sledger You're not being serious are you? From 2 games?! Earth shattering analysis. In 08/09 Season he played 5 -> avg. 23. In 09 Season he played 4 -> avg. 21. So over double and eactly double the sample size respectively and he's averaging in the 20s. Didn't you'd think I'd look up your stats? Nothing gets past the

Whatever makes you happy

[saamry]

Rao is been jerked around by PCB like Sami.

They both do well.

However, Rao is more of a swing bowler where Sami is more pace.

I think everything being equal i would go with Sami due to pace (ball aint gona swing in middle east).

[jazba]

^Sensible post.

[hasanmehmoodkhan]

I would have gone with anwar ali or hammad azam

[jazba]

Originally Posted by hasanmehmoodkhan I would have gone with anwar ali or hammad azam

These guys would be useful if we were tasked to replace Razzaq but I think we need a good backup for fragile Akhtar.

[FastBowler]

Sami should be playing. First option if Akhtar needs a rest.

[usman2321]

If sami was selected then he would probably make the playing 11, but in tanveer, they basically needed a waterboy and net practice for batsmen

[TaZ]

Interesting stats but while Amir is away and Shoaib is fragile I am all for Sami in ODIs

[dinakar]

can't believe people still want Sami ! even when we Indians saw the worst bowling unit in Srilanka, no one here thinks about bringing back Agarkar!!

[venomousx]

Originally Posted by dinakar can't believe people still want Sami ! even when we Indians saw the worst bowling unit in Srilanka, no one here thinks about bringing back Agarkar!!

post of the millennium