Shoaib Malik @ number 3

[Amjid Javed]

Just when u thought pakistan had a settled number 3 in S malik, pakistan go and fiddle about with number 3 spot. 1st hafeez was thrown in their and the Yk.

This is seriously poor stuff from team managment. how is team suppose 2 go forward and progress and build as a unit if the top orders gona be messed about with.

BW/inzi had previously indicated he saw malik as his long term number 3.

I feel inzi shud bat 3, with malik at 4. i also have question marks over maliks technic espcially batting so high up abroad. (However thats my opinion)

Theirs a saying if it aint broke dont play with it. malik like razzaq/afridi seem to have filled in a spot in odi side... then all of a sudden its changed.

Time for the Tinkerman(BW) to stop playing around with certain players...!

I read on BW`S site that he sees Yk as his finisher? so whyw as YK sent in @ 3... hes not excatly gona finish game from their is he?

|-F |-F seems seriously poor stuff from teams think tank!

Pakistans weakness is top order yet no faith or countiuity is show!

I thought that a new coach(espcially a foriegn one) wouldnt chop and change so much!

[pakistani pride]

True malik needs to bat at 3 period !!!!!

Bob is trying to outdo Ranieri.

[Amjid Javed]

yeah and bob will end up like raneri with no job!

[pakistani pride]

Come on amjid . We won enjoy.........

[Amjid Javed]

PP, im happy we won...! but u also have 2 think longterm!

[pakistani pride]

True. I feel that if you play younis he needs to bat at 3 or 4 cause he is not really a player to hit out.

but it was wrong to use a parttime wicketkeeper and to put malik back to 6

Your best player should bat as high as possible to face as many balls as he can.

[Amjid Javed]

amit, pakistan dont blv in that sadly!

sadly not! they believe in playing hide and seek with the batting order. Look at India. They are much better with Sachin at the top. Aus have their best players at the top. Lara came in early, made 156!

[pakistani pride]

Gary we have a good young openers a talented number 3 in Malik and our middle order is inzi- yoy ! period we wont change that !!!!

best player has to bat in the top3.

[cricket_crazy]

Shoaib Malik didn't go at no.3 as I feel Bob had doubts over him handling the conditions in Perth. Younis Khan is a better choice in the conditions and also did good at no.3 in the tests against Aus and therefore he was sent at no.3.

From what I see, Bob doesn't feel it is important to have a settled batting order. And Inzi is too negative and always think there is going to be a collapse which is why he comes so late so then he can rebuild innings after the collapse.

[Waqar's inswinging yorker]

ranieri is managing valencia!!

lol he did manage to get Atletico relegated.

[Amjid Javed]

if maliks so good he shud be batting 3 all the time!

i know he cant handle conditions...! his record away from home is poor.

team should be same for all conditions except an extra spinner where needed.

[Noman]

Yeah I Think Malik should bat at nr 3 and he loves it..

Inzi should bat for as long as possible.

[malikkhan]

Maybe Malik doesn't want to bat @3 anymore.

its not individuals that should say where they want to bat. the coach should tell them all for the sake of the TEAM. and for the team Inzi should bat at 3.

[Geordie Ahmed]

i dont think we should have absolute positions, there should be a degree of flexibility based on the game scenarios, conditions what have you??? [/b]

You want to be flexible in that different players can bat at different slots when required like Clarke can move up to open for Aus, Chanders for WI, Hinds can drop down, whatever. But at the end of the day in a big game u need to know what ur best batting order is. I think Shoaib Malik is such a player he can bat anywhere he wants.

[Officer Barbrady]

I think malik would have a better future at 5/6 in the role of the finisher. He has a good head, can pick up the singles and plays spin well...ideal for the finishers job.

i said exact same thing the other day funnily enough. also he hits straight well and is positive. good runner between wickets and has an enthusiasm about him that rubs off on others.

To elaborate on my previous point, Aussies know when it comes down to it their order is:

Hayden
Gilchrist
Ponting
Martyn
Lehmann
Symonds
Clarke
Hogg
Lee
Gillespie
McGrath.

[Civil]

Guys i dont get what the big deal about this batting lineup is. Can't you see

With our batting lineup these are the only options.

1) Salman But,t other opener and shoaib malik put on lots of runs, and score at a quick rate. If they get dismisseed Pakistan is already pretty comfortable, and we got Inzi and co. to do the rest. This is what happen in platinum jubilee and a couple of games this vb series. This is good

2) Top Order collapses, and we got Inzi and Yoyo razzaq and afridi to save us because they are our best batsmen. This has also happened several times like icc champions trophy against ind, and yesterdays victory against aus. This is good

3) everyone collapses. What can we do they're Pakistani, being unpredictable is what they do best. This happens time to time

if yoyo and inzi came earlier if they succeded then its all good, If they Fail than i assure 80+ percent of the time so will the batsmen coming after them

When I think about it all the ODI losses under woolmers tenure have involved the whole batting just collapsing out and out not just because of an order related problem.

Originally Posted by Civil Guys i dont get what the big deal about this batting lineup is. Can't you see With our batting lineup these are the only options. 1) Salman But,t other opener and shoaib malik put on lots of runs, and score at a quick rate. If they get dismisseed Pakistan is already pretty comfortable, and we got Inzi and co. to do the rest. This is what happen in platinum jubilee and a couple of games this vb series. This is good 2) Top Order collapses, and we got Inzi and Yoyo razzaq and afridi to save us because they are our best batsmen. This has also happened several times like icc champions trophy against ind, and yesterdays victory against aus. This is good 3) everyone collapses. What can we do they're Pakistani, being unpredictable is what they do best. This happens time to time if yoyo and inzi came earlier if they succeded then its all good, If they Fail than i assure 80+ percent of the time so will the batsmen coming after them When I think about it all the ODI losses under woolmers tenure have involved the whole batting just collapsing out and out not just because of an order related problem.

great point Civil!!!!

unfortunately some negative minds here at PP only want to criticize every single move. even after such a historic win they can only come up with criticism. they must have such small hearts. I hope there is something in their lives they can enjoy if not cricket. I for one couldnt be happier with our team and plan on enjoying this victory to the fullest. And I am sure there are many others who want to do the same. The haters can go burn their hearts in a corner somewhere!

[Civil]

"The haters can go burn their hearts in a corner somewhere!"

or ...

they could go burn an EFFIGY somwhere in a corner.

:oD :oD :oD

[tahaqureshi]

geordie is rite..we need flexibility

i mean the indians don't have a fixed batting line up either..

and u have to admit..they are no toddlers with the bat

[Geordie Ahmed]

unfortunately some negative minds here at PP only want to criticize every single move. even after such a historic win they can only come up with criticism. they must have such small hearts. I hope there is something in their lives they can enjoy if not cricket. I for one couldnt be happier with our team and plan on enjoying this victory to the fullest. And I am sure there are many others who want to do the same. The haters can go burn their hearts in a corner somewhere!

definately agree, far too many ppl are nit picking. some ppl also have some selfish issues here, like say defending a certain player they like etc etc. the squad that has been selected is not one i would select but since it has i will support them to the fullest, i will not criticise for the sake of it.

i am happy with the way our one day side is taking shape, its very promising and it will look better when our injured bowlers return!

[Schiller]

I agree in toto with GA

i was comprehensively irked yesterday when a certain poster still kept criticising.
What rot really ;-p

[razzler]

I agree with Civil.

Originally Posted by Schiller I agree in toto with GA i was comprehensively irked yesterday when a certain poster still kept criticising. What rot really ;-p

Umar, you agree when he says "I am happy with the way our one day side is taking shape, its very promising"? I thought you completely disagreed with the batting lineup!

just for the record though, I dont consider you in the "haters" category. I do believe you have made some unfair criticism of the captain but I wasnt referring to you in my previous post. I just wish you would also get behind the team more and not lash out after a defeat like you did last time. We can use more happiness when the team loses!!!

[Schiller]

Originally Posted by appeal till you squeal Umar, you agree when he says "I am happy with the way our one day side is taking shape, its very promising"? I thought you completely disagreed with the batting lineup! just for the record though, I dont consider you in the "haters" category. I do believe you have made some unfair criticism of the captain but I wasnt referring to you in my previous post. I just wish you would also get behind the team more and not lash out after a defeat like you did last time. We can use more happiness when the team loses!!!

Atys, If you ask GA, youll know that i have never said that I completely disagree with the batting lineup. my criticism re Inzi still stands and that was about due. I have always gotten behind the team and still do, I just hope Inzi would be more proactive and come pu the order. As for that criticism, i still stand by it But im sure GA would agree that I am no hater as some others are.

I have been maintaining now that our ODI team is indeed looking great

[Geordie Ahmed]

i gotta say that Umar isnt a hater like others, he doesnt criticise for the sake! he has defended the line up and what have you, its Inzi who he has issues with, he has criticised Inzi of late which i find dissapointing and i disagree with but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I have been maintaining now that our ODI team is indeed looking great

but if that is the case...shouldnt SOME credit go to the captain?

[Schiller]

Originally Posted by Geordie Ahmed i gotta say that Umar isnt a hater like others, he doesnt criticise for the sake! he has defended the line up and what have you, its Inzi who he has issues with, he has criticised Inzi of late which i find dissapointing and i disagree with but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Grazia GA :-D

I do have issues with Inzi's defensive mindset and lack of aggression to be honest and him not coming up the order, I still dont think hes a bad batsman by any stretch really. Its him not trusting himself that I suspect is the issue

I really hope malik can become a capt someday, i like the lad I must say

[Schiller]

"but if that is the case...shouldnt SOME credit go to the captain?
"

Let me put it this way, I think BW is to be credited largely for a few things along with Malik and Afridi and Razzaq, who have tried to improve under him a hell lot. If anything I still think Inzi would hold us back with his lackadaisical approach to captaincy. Even yesterday , i kept reading the capt was really poor. But Lets move on. I am happy we defeated Aus and I dont really want to nit pick :-D

I wouldnt Malik at number 3 myself really. I think he was doing a good job but perhaps the team mgmt felt he might not have coped with the Perth pitch at 3
Unlike some others, I have faith in BW

fair enough Umar. Inzi's timid nature aside, I just want to know a couple of things, just out of curiosity.

1 - do you agree that Inzi is completely committed to the Pakistan team and will do anything and everything to help them win? whether he can or not is a different issue. but does he want to?

2 - do you agree that Inzi has given his whole life to Pakistan cricket and is one of the rare superstars in Pakistan who havent asked for much in return?

[Schiller]

1 - do you agree that Inzi is completely committed to the Pakistan team and will do anything and everything to help them win? whether he can or not is a different issue. but does he want to?


I have no doubts about his committment but I do think his fearful nature is getting in the way and prevent his commitment from shining thru

2 - do you agree that Inzi has given his whole life to Pakistan cricket and is one of the rare superstars in Pakistan who havent asked for much in return?

While I agree, I think its irrelevant

well then I wont take this any further. your criticism is fair. I am probably one of Inzi's biggest fans but even I can see what his shortcomings are. since you agree that he is one of the most committed cricketers Pakistan has ever produced, I just think he deserves more respect from all of us. but thats just my opinion.

[Schiller]

I am not disrespecting his commitment however I have no respect for fearfulness. A great difference. I respect him for a lot of things but not for being so timid at times.

[the true passionist]

well i agree that BW and co have changed the order so much that it seems childish to me...
kamran akmal going down, up and out ( although he was the second highest scorer for Pak before the last match)...then bringing in YKhan( as keeper..he was clearly not clean) who has repeatedly failed to prove his ODI capabilities although he is a good Test player... and then shuffling malik to much... for me this should be the order ...

1. Salman
2. give a little run to Akmal (see if he can grab the place or take him down..but play him no matter what)(Bring Taufeeq/ Yasir if Akmal fails to deliver after a few more tries)
3. Inzi( he is simply the best...he was more comfortable than yoyo right from the word go...makes batting look easy...adds to the confidence of batsmen down the order)
4. Malik( he is gr8..play him at 4 to so that his weakness aginst swing bowling could be protected..he is good player of the spin...also could act as a buffer between inzi and yoyo so that we do not loose 2 of our best batsmen in 2 balls)
5. Yoyo( good for this place)
6. Razaq
7. Afridi
8.rana
9.sami
10. akhtar/shabbir
11.gul


We will win Inshaallah

[pakistani pride]

Shoaib malik for 3 . Thats his place !

[Amjid Javed]

|-A i see umar has become a human yoyo

[Schiller]

How am I becoming a human Yoyo?

[Amjid Javed]

uve chnaged opinion coz u where bullied by ATYS

[Schiller]

He didnt think I had changed it, GA didnt think so and I dont think so, why do you think so then??

[Amjid Javed]

|-O i blv u have changed ur opinion

[Schiller]

Well just saying that wont do boysie

In case youre wondering, I am still saying Inzi is a chicken for hiding down the order, he needs to show guts and courage.
That doesnt mean I am saying hes not committed.

[Amjid Javed]

Umar, how can u show commitment if ur not willing to step upo and lead from front? hes skipper for god sake...! end off day a skipper shud lead side when in good times and bad..! inzi doesnt do that.

that 2 me shows no commitment!

[Schiller]

Yar I wouldnt necessarily say thats a commitment issue, like i said his fear prevents his commitment from shining thru.

When we say hes not committed it implies we're insinuating negative intentions. I dont think its really negative in that sense but its more fear.

[Civil]

What would Inzi be afraid of? He's conquered almost any bowler that has come in his path.
He's just following a sound team strategy in my opinion, and if he came earlier it would not only once again hinder malik's progress, but also expose our best weapons right away.

[Amjid Javed]

impression i get is inzi has no faith in other players and also lays blame elsewer which to be frankly honest is a disgrace... agen this seems 2 me inzi is just looking out for himself and not others!

[Civil]

But if he had no faith in other players wouldn't he come up the order? wouldn't he open for that matter?

Can't anyone see that its better that Salman and Yasir face up to McGrath and Gillespie, if they fail what can you do they're young they're learning, if they succed great.

But what it guarantees is that Inzi and company face Symonds and Hogg, and success is almost guaranteed.

[Amjid Javed]

Inzi has already stated he bats 5 to be there becoz of collapses.... so does that comment show he has faith?

no it doesnt!

[Toony™®]

Inzi prefers coming in earlier when we are batting well

[Amjid Javed]

oh right, so inzi takes easy route does he. only shows his face when teams doing well?

shows lack of responsability then!

[Civil]

Inzi usually bats at 4 , he batted at 5 for a few games because we had Hafeez

but 4 is the ideal position for him.

So i guess you would attribute Pakistan's history of top order collapses to Inzi's lack of faith in top order players? instead of lack of maturity and experience?

Everytime Yasir goes fishing, everytime someone gets a gem of a ball, its Inzi's fault

I guess everything in this world is Inzi's fault

[Toony™®]

i think Akmal may open again and Hameed come in at 3.

Malik will be playing lower down so he can strengthen the lower order since Mahmood aint playing and is more explosive.

[Amjid Javed]

Civil, i neva said everything was inzis fault however he shud keep his mouth shut instead of these stupid public comments.

If you start protecting players then they shouldnt be there. Inzi should show some real leadership and bat at the top of the order, 1/2/3. That is the real message to send out to the young players, that you have to take some responsibility, follow my good example that I am setting.

[Jahangir Khan]

I am a new member to PakPassion

I would suggest dropping Salman Butt for the short term cos he's out of form and under pressure.

He's like Hayden for Aus but the Aussies r strong enough to let him recover

Hafeez showed improvement against Windies in last game, so he should play ahead of Butt. We need sixth bowler and Hafeez can do the job.

Last time Inzi bought him on in the 40th Over. Thats too late for a sixth bowler.

Our fielding also needs improving.

We're not hitting stumps enough for runouts.

It's a shame Younis had to go home. Comisserations for his loss. He would have been perfect at number 6.

Originally Posted by Amit Mishra bowls a wrong If you start protecting players then they shouldnt be there. Inzi should show some real leadership and bat at the top of the order, 1/2/3. That is the real message to send out to the young players, that you have to take some responsibility, follow my good example that I am setting.

whats that message Amit....bat at 3? but Inzi is already batting at 3. oh no...what are the youngsters to do now. where will they bat? if they bat at 4 or 5 that would make them chicken!! they cant start their careers off as chickens can they?? you have such childish ideas.

are we to say that EVERY batsman in the world that bats at 4, 5 or 6 is AFRAID of the new ball??? Dravid, Lara, Martyn are all scared little ducklings? They dont have the balls to play international cricket? rubbish!!!

You people think so childishly I can only laugh at you. First you call for Inzi to "show responsibility and maturity". when he does that by thinking with his head instead of his heart and making sure the team doesnt collapse you call him chicken.

I can say with absolute certainty that if Inzi were to come in at 3 every time and Pak team were to collapse these same people would be calling him a moron and that he should have used better judgement and kept himself at number 4. I pity them and their small hearts!

[Hash]

agree completely with appeal till you squeal

Inzi and Youhana holding the middle order at 4 and 5 in an ideal scenario (ie no injuries) which is what they do and have been doing for quite some time.

Originally Posted by Hash agree completely with appeal till you squeal Inzi and Youhana holding the middle order at 4 and 5 in an ideal scenario (ie no injuries) which is what they do and have been doing for quite some time.

Hash bhai...I just find it the most laughable thing in the world that these people are calling 4 and 5 positions "chicken positionts". So why restrict that to Inzi. Every batsman in history that ever batted at 4 or 5 should now be called chicken! its the end of common sense!

[Hash]

ahahahaha exactly!

[Geordie Ahmed]

i would feel better if we were say 50/3 knowing Inzi and YoYo are yet to come than say we are 50/3 knowing that Inzi and YoYo have departed!

the teams fine as it is, if it aint broke dont fix it!

[Civil]

Exactly ATYS!!

Everyone is caught up in this romantic notion of the great warrior king leading out his troops to battle with the trumpets sounding and the war drums beating. Everyone watching in marvel as the great leader gets angered and shows the way.

well WAKE UP everyone , Imran and Wasim days are over, Pakistan can't win on just sheer talent and emotion anymore. They just don't have the resources, they must rely on a realistic, cool and calculated method.

The coolest of the bunch is none other than Inzimam.

Everyone is caught up in this romantic notion of the great warrior king leading out his troops to battle with the trumpets sounding and the war drums beating. Everyone watching in marvel as the great leader gets angered and shows the way.

hahahahahaha

my sentiments exactly!

[Hash]

the classic example is the ICC Trophy game against india.

We lost 3 early wickets....wre 27/3 and looked in trouble.

Who was there? Inzi and Youhana to save the day!


The fact is if we lose 3 early wickets it is not PANIC time.

If we lose 3 early wickets and Inzi and Youhana have gone then....ummm, I would be very worried.

Originally Posted by Hash the classic example is the ICC Trophy game against india. We lost 3 early wickets....wre 27/3 and looked in trouble. Who was there? Inzi and Youhana to save the day! The fact is if we lose 3 early wickets it is not PANIC time. If we lose 3 early wickets and Inzi and Youhana have gone then....ummm, I would be very worried.

and this is exactly what gives the youngsters at the top of the order "confidence". it enables them to play their own game without fear of a collapse or of losing. what a great man Inzi is. these people can't even begin to understand how selfless he is. he is letting people tarnish his own image to make the team and the youngsters better. a lesser man would have been playing at 3 right now. for that alone I would rate him higer than any Pakistani cricketer in history...and i dont say that lightly!

[razzler]

Inzi is fine where he is. No need to change that now. Our ODI is almost settled now with a couple of positions up for grabs.

it is common sense to have ur best batsman at the top of the order so he can bat more overs and influence the game more!

[zorawar]

It is also common sense to have your best batsman come to the crease when the situation is ideal or close to ideal for him and not sacrifice him to the new ball if he has not played as an opener throughout his life.

Sachin wasnt an opener was he? And Woolmer calls top of the order 1-3. Why give 3 cheap wkts when Inzi can bat 50 overs?

[Geordie Ahmed]

Gary i cudnt care less what Sachin is, i only care about Pak and i like the new layout! its working well and we have had positive results, insha'allah when the bowlers get back we will be even stronger

GA, u will disagree with me for the sake of it! Amjid is correct, ur best players have to set an example and that is Inzi batting no1/2/3. Young players see Inzi hiding they will do that themselves.

[razzler]

Like Geordie and many others I like the new layout of the team. My only complain is about the opening positions. Too much tinkering is going on there and should be left to Butt and Hameed.

[razzler]

Originally Posted by Amit Mishra bowls a wrong GA, u will disagree with me for the sake of it! Amjid is correct, ur best players have to set an example and that is Inzi batting no1/2/3. Young players see Inzi hiding they will do that themselves.

Nobody is disagree with you Gary for the sake of it. :-^ We are going to say what we feel is right. You can say what you feel is right. Btw, what guarantee do you have that the young ones are going to hide?